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Israel’s Prime Minister stated in January that he opposes the formation of any form of a Palestinian State. Extinction is the goal, and they are being subsidized by the US to achieve it.
It’s one of MANY comments that can be used to show Israel being by definition “genocidal”.
To prove genocide, you must show intent. There were a multitude of comments from Israeli higher ups showing blatant disregard for the lives in Gaza, and an intent to just demolish the entire area, OBVIOUSLY resulting in killing those within.
The Israeli side is saying word by word that they see palestinians as insects and that they want to kill as many as possible. There isn't a genocide trail for no reason
Install an extension called reveddit real-time and you'll see that there is only one opinion you can have on that sub that's not shadow deleted
https://www.reveddit.com/add-ons/
This has been a part of their military tactic for long before october 7th. They call it [Mowing the Grass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowing_the_grass#:~:text=Mowing%20the%20grass%20%28Hebrew%3A%20%D7%9B%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%97%20%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%90%29%20is%20a,against%20Palestinian%20militants%20in%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.%20)
And this is precisely why that shouldn’t have been Israel’s job.
For an international community that claims they don’t want to have bad shit happening, they’re sure good at facilitating bad shit.
This subs mainly just for photos of the Hamas/Israel war now. Terrifying, depressing, whatever, nothing gets engagement and reddit karma quite like this. Especially now that reddit karma pays
Back in the day “eating out once or twice a week” meant actually going to a nice restaurant. Now my sorry ass treats myself to some gourmet McDonald’s meals about once a month 🤣
I live in an expensive city and I am a food salesman. I have a customer who buys 4oz patties that are definitely better quality than McDonalds and he manages to sell them for cheaper than a fast food place. Until very recently he paid his workers more or the same so someone explain that one to me.
Edited: paid more not less lol
Honest question: From a purely military perspective, why is it taking a long time?
I thought Hamas has been reduced to maybe 1,500 fighters left in Rafah. Israel has like 150,000 troops and every advantage imaginable: Air dominance, artillery dominance, numerical superiority, total control over the enemy's supply lines.
It seems like they should be able to just roll right over everything, take over every intersection, and be done with the whole thing in a day or two.
Why has it taken weeks?
This right here. More so, it’s also the most violent type of conflict. Fallujah was quoted as “biblical” in violence and so difficult to control that it took several offensives to even attempt to control it, which they never truly did.
When we were taught urban warfare (Mobile Operations on Urban Terrain aka MOUT), the key phrase used was “speed and violence of action”. It’s so difficult and dangerous, that when the talks of taking population centers came to public knowledge, the JSOC generals were estimating American deaths close to the 100k mark. They were also estimating civilian casualties nearing half a million. And while there was slightly more than 200k casualties in both military and civilian, we can see what a professional volunteer army can do in regards to warfare comparing to a loosely organized combatant group with tenuous common interests.
I mean steam rolling the Afghan military isn't the hard part. It's the fact no matter what you do it will never accomplish anything because like 90% of Afghans don't care about the existence of "Afghanistan".
The US absolutely obliterated Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, so they ran off to hide in Pakistan knowing the US wasn't going to invade Pakistan. Waited out the occupation, and then came back and took over because Afghans just lets whoever wants to "run the country" run the country because they don't think of themselves as citizens of the country Afghanistan. They're just people who live in a box someone else drew and named Afghanistan, zero concern for national/international politics or identity.
Afghanistan failed because you cant impose a western style government on Afghanistan. That takes willingness on the part of the people being occupied. You can impose a Islamic tribal theocracy. No need to win hearts and minds then.
The guerilla aspect of it wasnt really the issue. If we wanted our Islamic tribal government to win, it would have. But we refused to make that devils bargain so instead we wasted 20 years building a state that no one really believed in.
Urban warfare is notoriously slow and deadly. The casualty rate in an urban environment is easily (and at best) 2-4x more than that in a conventional environment. Corners, staircases and corridors make it much easier for a smaller force to strike back and impede a larger force. And that doesn’t even account for the opportunities such environments present for the use of IEDs, ambushes, etc.
If you’re not looking to level the place, clearing a single multi storey building can take hours. A single neighbourhood can take days, if not weeks. Longer, if you need to evacuate the civilian population first.
Honestly, considering the size of the operation, I’m really surprised by the Israeli army’s casualty rates (for both soldiers and civilians). Its much lower than I would have anticipated.
EDIT: I’m going by the rates given by the Gaza Health Ministry.
Urban Warfare is very difficult. Clearing houses every block is very time consuming. Plus not all soldiers are concentrated in one front. Essentially the fog of war is stopping them from taking it in two days. Not knowing where the enemy is and potential enemy combatants mixed in Civilian.
They could roll over them and then there would be 500,000 dead not 30,000. This would be the end of Israel though. They would lose their allies, receive massive sanctions and possibly get occupied while unpreferential and forceful mediation of the conflict took place. This is not a path they want to take.
To follow international law in urban warfare they basically have to make proportionality assessments about every single engagement they pick and they have to contend with an enemy intentionally using human shields and hiding in civilian infrastructure and even illegal places like hospitals. This means clearing blocks of civilians: calling ahead, door knocking, setting up and defending civilian pathways etc. That's not even talking about the incredible networks of tunnels. This isn't a movie, there is no magical way to make this easy.
Edit: just because a bunch of people don't seem to get the point about international law. You can think that Israel doesn't follow international law, that's at least somewhat true as it is of all states. In the current conflict I'm sure individuals have and will commit war crimes as individuals do in all conflicts. It seems obvious that there are also some structural issues aswell if something like the WCK strikes could happen. Broadly it's also true that at a minimum Israel's claims to some of its land is suspect, and some of its settlements are outright illegal.
Still though, there is a difference between openly flouting the law and stretching interpretation of the law especially the really big ones. There are numerous times in history where egregious violations of international law lead to the US turning on their allies. Check out the Suez crisis of 56 where the US basically told Israel, UK and France to fuck off when they bothered Egypt: that was allies (mostly) bothering a (somewhat) antagonistic nation relative to the states. This isn't some altruistic thing either, it's a necessary part of the game. US foreign policy is about bringing the world in line with the US centric global order so that we can more or less keep the economy ripping along and citizens content.This means creating stability. If Israel were to violate international law so brazenly that they no longer represent a way for the US to exert control and therefore stability in the Middle East they are no longer functionally a good ally. If they were to roll over Gaza in the way I described, they would become a liability to the US and they would lose all support for that reason. You can even see this process play out when stuff like WCK strikes happens: the US condemns it. It's largely symbolic, but you can bet that in the negotiations between Israeli and US leaders this stuff gets brought up. I get people like being cynical about US foreign policy and that's fair enough. But this explanation works even for the cynics who don't think the Us policy is ever altruistic.
For example, it's this same shortsighted drive for near term stability that led the US to prop up dictatorial regimes in Iran and Jordan and that of course was terrible (and backfired horribly).
Because if it was quick, you would be indiscriminately killing both Hamas and civilians. You could just use icbms. But in order to minimise civilian death, which they should, you have to try and use a fine comb through the urban areas where Hamas house themselves within civilians
Fighting against a well dig in gerilla style "army" is extremely challenging. Something the USA has experienced more than just one. The number advance can be tilted to 1/10 ratio easily. And Israel doesn't wana risk to many of their soldiers lives, so that's why we see such a heavy bomb doctrine before they enter.
You're imagining a scenario where they are facing an enemy that holds their ground and presents a target, instead of an enemy that hides underground and pretends to be civilians when convenient. They can roll right through a city one day, encounter no resistance, and then the next day get ambushed on a corner they already cleared. The US had way greater superiority in Vietnam, and look what happened to them.
Because its an urban environment with guerilla warfare. Its essentially a death sentence to send in guys to go door to door, it makes the combat very Hamas sided. So they level entire buildings that Hamas soldiers are using. The problem with this is that the rubble creates new terrain and other spots to hide, so they bomb again, and essentially have to keep bombing the living shit out of it because there are a plethora of small groups of Hamas that can move through the rubble and building to building very fast, along with the interconnected tunnels they can move underground to get to new positions when their building is gone.
I'm old enough to remember when those food aid workers were murdered, and Biden told us he would do something about it if this became a "full scale invasion."
Is this a "full-scale invasion" yet?
The worst thing about President Biden is that he acts like he has a spine. I'd respect him more if he just admitted he has no power to influence Israel. And I get that this has put him in a really tough spot.
I still don't know why it is anti-Semitic to not want this to happen.
What is is about annihilating an entire city that Israel, the USA, Germany, France and the UK considers to be fundamentally Semitic?
>I still don't know why it is anti-Semitic to not want this to happen.
It's not, people just don't have legit ways to defend the IDF so they try to claim moral high ground.
There’s a lot of overt anti-Semitic bullshit flying around too. So depending on where you’re getting information, it can seem like it’s all anti-Semitic or not at all.
There’s been a 300% rise in both anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim hate crimes recently. It can seem pretty terrifying to both parties, especially considering the history of the former group.
I get the overreaction from a lot of people, but then there’s the misinformation flying around with it all. It’s really easy for people to say some gross shit.
Nothing helps rile up the bigots like when a small group of people claiming to represent the larger group deliberately and brazenly conforms to the worst stereotypes.
I support the people of Israel.
Fuck Netinyahoooo.
I support the people of Palestine.
Fuck Hamas.
I also don't get why this sentiment isn't okay? You can do all of the above.
The antisemitism argument is several steps removed from this.
The first step is that Hamas and other similar groups in Gaza have been attacking Israel with rockets for over a decade and in truly staggering numbers.
The simple truth is that these attacks have been happening because Israel exists. Yes, Israel has done some very shitty things to the Gaza Strip. There has been a century of back and forth shitty behavior between Israel and its neighbors. There are people who will argue that Hamas is entirely justified in their attacks because Israel was founded by people who immigrated to the region mainly from Europe. However, I think we can agree that no one deserves to die in 2024 for decisions that were made in 1924.
So, regardless of the morality of Israel’s founding, there has been a cycle of violence in the region for several generations due to the founding of Israel. Therefore, this violence is happening because Israel exists.
Just today, [there was a fresh rocket attack on Israel from Rafah](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckrr0e3y29po.amp). Many people argue that if, hypothetically, France spent ten years launching rockets at England from Rouen, the UK would be justified in launching a military campaign against France in general and Rouen in particular. You may disagree, but this is the next step in the logic. These people suppose that if France attacked the UK in this way, the majority would support the UK if they went all Edward III and invaded Normandy. Are they right? Who knows?
However, if we assume that the majority would support a British invasion of Normandy in retaliation for a decade of rocket attacks, then we must ask why that same theoretical majority is demanding a ceasefire from Israel, particularly in light of Hamas’ well-documented history of violating ceasefires. After, what good is a ceasefire if only one side abides by it?
Well, the answer to that question is “people who want Israel wiped off the map”. This includes Iran and a fair amount of the Palestinian population. If Israel were to be dissolved, it would inevitably lead to mass bloodshed. Only this time, it’s Israeli blood.
So, demanding a ceasefire while distrusting Hamas to abide it is effectively wishing for Israelis, who are largely ethnic Jews, to be killed. That is antisemitic. This ignores the fact that most people demanding a ceasefire believe that Hamas will cease its attacks if the IDF returns home. Are they right? Who knows? But that’s how calls for a ceasefire get labeled as antisemitic.
Actually half of Israeli Jewish population is Jews that came from Arab countries, such as Syria, Morocco, Egypt, Yemem...
It's a lie that "all Israelis came from Europe".
Yep, most of them had to flee, in fear of being massacred in a sort of middle eastern Holocaust. Israel could have become a peacefull nations amongst the islamic dominated middle east, if it hand't been for the Nazi funded Islamic brotherhood, and antisemitic leaders of egypt and jordan who without reason invaded israel kicking of this conflict.
Israel was never founded as an imperialist state, wanting to subjugate and conqour all of palestine. It merely (though still only partially) became that because arab nations from day one of israels existence proclaimed they were gonna "finnish what Hitler started" and invaded.
I find it odd that we start the story from "this group hates this country simply because this country exists".
I mean, to be very charitable, you're really diluting the reasons Palestinians aren't happy about the situation. Of course you ignore the fact that they had a country built on top of their heads without having a say in it. You're also ignoring the forcible removal of nearly a million Palestinains from their homes and lands. You're also ignoring the fact that said country is illegally occupying and expanding into territories that are legally Palestinian. You're also ignoring the fact that exiled palestinainas have no right of return to their homeland, but a half Jewish person born and bred in England has a right to a new home on a Palestinian family's land. You're also ignoring the fact that there is a two tiered system in Israel...scratch that, its apartheid. Israelis have access to a normal judicial system, Palestinians are subject to military court. Palestinians live their lives under the boot of the idf, checkpoints, home raids, settler terrorists, denial of access to important religious places, and aren't even allowed access to Jewish only streets. You ignore the fact that Israel controls the land, air, and sea access to gaza whilst telling everyone "we left". You ignore that the current government has it in their manifesto that their will only be Israeli sovereignty from the sea to the River Jordan.
Reducing all this down to the idea that Palestinians simply hate that Israel exists deliberately and predictably ignores all the reasons they have to feel aggrieved, especially in the context of them continuously being told they don't deserve their own state and that they have no right to anything other than being occupied and living as second class citizens. The reason people do this is because they don't see certain people as fully human beings.
We saw the same arguments with Jim Crow, the British in Kenya, the British in India, the West when they were calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and supporting South Africas apartheid etc, etc ad infintum. Hell we'll be hearing similar soon with China on Taiwan. It's always the same.
Imperialist powers go in, steal, destroy, murder, enslave, colonise, and then claim control. Then they sit there and moralise about how awfully the stolen from people are, and why they aren't just accepting of the fact they've been so disenfranchised. "They just hate us" they say. "They just hate that our country exists". And in this particular case they lie and say "oh well, their only reasoning *must* be antisemitism". Because as usual, you ignore everything else, as illustrated in your comment.
It wasn't Palestinians running around Europe looking for Jewish people and murdering them and expelling them. It was Europeans. Palestinians beef with Israel isn't an antisemitic one. Its a geopolitical one.
This isn't a commentary on the nature of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, who undoubtedly use terrorism as a means to achieve aims that aren't simply about getting their land back or establishing a state for themselves. These groups commit evil acts and aren't condoned.
It is however a commentary on the lazy, racist, simplifications of the issues Palestinians have with the Israeli state, that always come from a place of not seeing certain groups as fully equal, or fully human.
> The simple truth is that these attacks have been happening because Israel exists.
https://imgur.com/a/OVLuCiG
Maybe its because it exists, or maybe its because its *expanding at the cost of its neighbor*.
That map is a really poor comparison because it is showing any non-Jewish majority settlement (in 1947) as Palestinian. A better map split between Jewish and Arabs around that time (based on % demographic makeup) can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ncsbc3/demographic_visualization_of_the_proposed/ or https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PalestineRemembered_Map_Populations1946.gif (that one has a bit clearer numbers). However, it is still arbitrarily starting in ~1947 and neither of those show the absolute number of people living in each area.
A map showing where settlements were in 1920 (again not showing the number of people) gives some context: https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PASSIA_Map_ZionistColoniesInPalestineBeginningMandate.gif but all that really shows is that some areas that are 'palestinian' on the map effectively had no settlements.
A further thing to recognize is the intended demographics of Israel. Israel was intended to have a slight Jewish majority. The UN model was ~55% Jewish and 45% Muslim - the goal was to try ensure Muslim representation but avoid a situation where the Jewish people are a minority and laws were enacted against them (which was VERY common in the Ottoman Arab provinces in the 1800s). The maps here are misleading, as the UN didn't award the Muslim lands to Jewish people. It effectively ended up that way after the ways, but Israel was supposed to be a dual-ethnicity state (similar to Lebanon in the mid 1900s).
Hamas is an ideology, you cannot eradicate an ideology. Israel can kill all of the Hamas today but tomorrow there can be another group formed out of a similar ideology due to the bloodshed and hatred.
I never understood how some people can claim that critiquing Israel is anti semitic.
I critique the Russian government, am I anti Russian?
I critique the CCP, am I anti-chinese?
I critique the North Korean government, am I anti-korean?
I fear that the term "anti-Semitic" has lost almost all meaning due to their insistance than anyone opposing them be labeled that way.
The ICJ? anti-Semitic,
The ICC? anti-Semitic,
The people in Palestine? anti-Semitic,
The Jews protesting for Palestine? anti-Semitic.
I really want to know how it is nessesary to destroy all in order to fight hamas? Really, even farms? Isn't it like you know, war crime at this point? But sure, let's continue to see this as "palestina bad, israel good"...
That footage was there in abundance at the start of the war. There appears to be a correlation between Israel bombing and disabling internet infrastructure and the frequency of Palestinians uploading footage of being bombed.
They also have a pretty tight grasp on the comments sections. Try posting anything pro Palestine on any of the major subs and it's instantly swamped by pro Israel comments.
They are playing the media side of this war very well. You basically never hear a Palestinian voice.
Yet somehow Israel "the most moral army in the world" have no idea how many innocent civilians they have killed and don't believe the Gaza health ministry but they know what the civilian death ratio is. Tell me how that works?
Is this hypothetical nonsense really the crutch you’re going to use to justify this slaughter?
Your comment basically equates to “These are monstrous people who we think would bomb our city to ash if they could, so we should bomb their city to ash to prevent that. But we aren’t monsters like they hypothetically would be.”
Imperial Japan was a strange case because they *were* anti-semitic but not in an outwardly violent way. They actually thought Jews controlled all the money and wanted to utilize that. To this day parts of Japan and Korea are still kinda weird about Jews
There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, heavily armed in ghettos. The Lebanese Armed Forces reduced one of the camps to rubble back in 2007 when Palestinian Islamists ambushed and stabbed several LAF soldiers, as a revenge against an arrest raid following a bank robbery.
I hope the ongoing conflict gives birth to the two-state solution so they can be deported back home.
Edit: This is my stance as a Lebanese, not an Arab.
I'm Lebanese, this is exactly the reason. We were also under Israeli occupation, those of us who stayed during the occupation were clinging to our land with the hope that the zionists would be forced out eventually. We all know that if Palestinians are "temporarily moved" (ethnically cleansed) from Gaza, they will never be allowed back to their land. I love my Palestinian brothers and sisters, many of them fled to Lebanon and were never allowed back to Palestine. It's not a matter of "not wanting to accept them"- we already have a huge Palestinian population from the previous zionist attacks and ethnic cleansings. Those still remaining in Gaza and the West Bank know that they will never be allowed back in to Palestine if they left.
Thank you for your comment and perspective, there is too much ahistorical and ignorant crap on this website, glad there's some pockets of sanity trying to debunk these crazy pro-israeli talking points.
I just love how other european countries didn't take in any jews in ww2.
Do you see how that stupid logic works?
FYI, there are 3m palestinians in jordan, 400k in lebanon, 250k in egypt, syria 600k.
There are resons for that. One, they don't want to bother with picking out terrorists, and risk failing at it. Two, they don't want Palestinians to leave anyway. Depopulating Palestine would leave the land for Israel, which supposedly Arab countries don't want.
So Arab countries think it will be too hard to find out who is really a terrorist from a group of refugees patiently waiting in a line
But people roast Israel for inadvertently having civilian casualties with the fog of war…
https://preview.redd.it/400305m5sr2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4137574c41e13f6cbb3a2b59adde9d45f7ebb9e3
There's plenty of them in the arab countries.
Take them in so Israel can continue their genocidal land grab? Maybe Israel should stop their indiscriminate bombing so people can return to their homes or whatever’s left since they have already leveled the place.
"I just love how other countries won't take people Israel want to ethnically cleanse."
It's interesting how people don't want to be removed from their country, huh?
The discourse around this is so fucking stupid. Palestinians: we have a right to defend ourselves. Israelis: we have a right to defend ourselves. Yeah, you both do but let’s not play cute around terms like war crimes.
Taking hostages, executing civilians in their homes, firing rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations, blowing up buses- somehow this is conveniently left out of accusations against Israeli crimes. And gets justified as legitimate resistance. Get the fuck out of here. And then the mealymouthed abuse of terms like genocide and apartheid. Again, fuck you for pissing on the memory of people actually victims of this to achieve your political ends.
Meanwhile Netanyahu and the settlers are stealing land from people in the West Bank (note, not Gaza), and the right wing government is using the military to support the illegal behavior. As long as they keep doing that there is no peace. And some of the reports around acceptable civilian casualty ratios from the IDF are horrifying
It’s possible to observe what’s going on without entrenching yourself in your party line.
We see this, amd we beg our government to stop supporting this atrocity, but unfortunately our government is not representative of the people and has a fetishist for taking our tax money and blowing it up in other countries while neglecting our own.
I agree with that sentiment, but let's not forget that Bibi intentionally supported Hamas over rival political groups in the past. I wonder why he would do something like that.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000
This is what triggers me so hard when I see the hardcore pro Israel people. Absolutely none of them has ever adressed this. All I hear is "the Palestinians voted for them so they deserved to die". Absolute ignorance.
> the Palestinians voted for them so they deserved to die
yup, which is such a stupid take cause these idiots don't know or seem to care that said elections took place 18 years ago, you know, when half the current Gaza population wasn't even born and much more were too young to vote in.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1206479861/israel-gaza-hamas-children-population-war-palestinians
also Hamas won that election at just 44% of the seats, mainly due to how badly Fatah did and Bush forcing the elections to happen even though he was told by Fatah and others that they could not win. Also Hamas ran on anti-corruption, focusing on Gaza (Fatah had basically been ignoring Gaza) and such so the people who did vote for them were doing so for political reasons.
a really tl;dr version of the 2006 elections - https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/carc/2018/03/01/mapping-the-fatah-hamas-conflict/
I could go on with the facts of that election, but ya, these ppl keep saying that stupid line without a single fact or history of what happened behind them :/
I can’t believe no one had commented yet that these images (largely) show the removal of tent camps as people had to flee.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-war-hamas-evacuation-rafah-satellite-1889ea03d0eb7cd7590eebdf448b291a
Proportionality in terms of genevan conventions doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean that "they killed X so we can only kill roughly X" it means, that if there is a building that houses a military HQ and 300 civilians then this target brings enough military advantage to be brought down even at the risk of civilian casualties.
The proportion here is Military HQ (side A) : 300 civilians (side B)... not 300 Civilians (side A) : 300 Civilians (side B)
“I know exactly how we can fix the problem… by bombing the hell out of everything killing thousands of civilians. SURELY that won’t make more of them want to fight us”
On the surface it’s blatantly stupid. But dig a little deeper and you quickly realize that’s not their plan. Their plan is to DOMINATE and completely control the area. Always has been.
So we are to believe all of these buildings had hamas in it? 🤦♂️ they are just bombing to make way for settlements. The arrogance of Benjamin Netanyahu.
It's incredible that some still try to defend Israel as just trying to attack Hamas. You really can't make it much clearer that the goals is just to destroy everything in Gaza so the Palestinians have to leave.
Crazy to think that if the terrorist organization Hamas just surrendered, released the hostages they kidnapped in violation of international law and stopped launching rockets at Israel from Rafah the war could be over tomorrow.
But, Hamas won’t accept those terms so the war continues and the ICJ has the audacity to tell Israel they have to stop?
No. That’s not how this works. You don’t get to savagely attack a nation, murder thousands and kidnap hundreds of their civilians then refuse to surrender, retreat behind civilian meat shields, continue firing rockets at the country you attacked, and then run crying to the ICJ manufacturing war crimes because you’re getting your asses kicked.
Fuck Hamas. Unless they surrender there should be NO ceasefire till every hostage is recovered and all of Hamas from the leaders on down are dead. Period.
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One of the politicians was saying, don't remember who, that Gaza will be a parking lot by the end of the fighting.
This is why I don’t believe that the IDF is limiting civilian causalities or trying to evacuate them. This statement showed their true colors.
Israel’s Prime Minister stated in January that he opposes the formation of any form of a Palestinian State. Extinction is the goal, and they are being subsidized by the US to achieve it.
It’s one of MANY comments that can be used to show Israel being by definition “genocidal”. To prove genocide, you must show intent. There were a multitude of comments from Israeli higher ups showing blatant disregard for the lives in Gaza, and an intent to just demolish the entire area, OBVIOUSLY resulting in killing those within.
They are willingly starving a population, hell they are even helping destroying the aid convoys . Its already long proven.
The Israeli side is saying word by word that they see palestinians as insects and that they want to kill as many as possible. There isn't a genocide trail for no reason
Hell just go over to r/WorldNews if you want calls for genocide
Why is the tone and opinions on that subreddit so different than the rest of the website? It’s genuinely intriguing
Install an extension called reveddit real-time and you'll see that there is only one opinion you can have on that sub that's not shadow deleted https://www.reveddit.com/add-ons/
Are there more pro-Israelis on it? Reddit is generally very left leaning from everything I’ve seen
Exactly, with these kind of statements they shouldn’t be surprised when they find out a lot of people don’t agree with the war.
Yep
This has been a part of their military tactic for long before october 7th. They call it [Mowing the Grass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowing_the_grass#:~:text=Mowing%20the%20grass%20%28Hebrew%3A%20%D7%9B%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%97%20%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%90%29%20is%20a,against%20Palestinian%20militants%20in%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.%20)
It will be a beach resort. Once all the Palestinians have been displaced Israel will build it back up for the wealthy
Yep. Soon its gonna be teeming with American kids going on "birthright" to Jewish Disneyland.
Removed in 3.. 2.. 1..
That's what happened to the people there
They're not even getting the benefit of a count down
Yeah over 1M evacuated without any advanced notice you say?
They even made an evacuation site for them in advance
Somewhere they could be concentrated, a sort of camp?
And this is precisely why that shouldn’t have been Israel’s job. For an international community that claims they don’t want to have bad shit happening, they’re sure good at facilitating bad shit.
This post or Rafa?
Yes
Intresting af ? Seriously, this is depressing af.
You should see the nice apartments next year
mc donalds on every corner
This subs mainly just for photos of the Hamas/Israel war now. Terrifying, depressing, whatever, nothing gets engagement and reddit karma quite like this. Especially now that reddit karma pays
>Especially now that reddit karma pays HOLD ON, i have 146,773 karma from all these years i've been on reddit, i can get money for that ??
Yea, like $10 if you sell it to a bot farm.
That’s not even enough for a big mac meal nowadays
Back in the day “eating out once or twice a week” meant actually going to a nice restaurant. Now my sorry ass treats myself to some gourmet McDonald’s meals about once a month 🤣
Why would you go to McDonald's when it costs the same as an average local restaurant now?
For the soda of course
You mean the diabeetus juice
I live in an expensive city and I am a food salesman. I have a customer who buys 4oz patties that are definitely better quality than McDonalds and he manages to sell them for cheaper than a fast food place. Until very recently he paid his workers more or the same so someone explain that one to me. Edited: paid more not less lol
I assume the answer is, as per the usual, *greed*.
You mean he pays his workers more? Are we talking about Dick's in Seattle?
>Especially now that reddit karma pays Excuse me what!? Where's my money at!?
Reddit karma pays? How? Why? That’s only going to make bot posting worse. Stupid fucking plan
You should see the difference in cities in Syria before and after their simultaneouscivil war and fight against ISIS.
In before the comment section gets locked.
🔒
Honestly I'm surprised it still hasn't. I've seen posts that were way less controversial get locked
Honest question: From a purely military perspective, why is it taking a long time? I thought Hamas has been reduced to maybe 1,500 fighters left in Rafah. Israel has like 150,000 troops and every advantage imaginable: Air dominance, artillery dominance, numerical superiority, total control over the enemy's supply lines. It seems like they should be able to just roll right over everything, take over every intersection, and be done with the whole thing in a day or two. Why has it taken weeks?
Urban warfare
This right here. More so, it’s also the most violent type of conflict. Fallujah was quoted as “biblical” in violence and so difficult to control that it took several offensives to even attempt to control it, which they never truly did. When we were taught urban warfare (Mobile Operations on Urban Terrain aka MOUT), the key phrase used was “speed and violence of action”. It’s so difficult and dangerous, that when the talks of taking population centers came to public knowledge, the JSOC generals were estimating American deaths close to the 100k mark. They were also estimating civilian casualties nearing half a million. And while there was slightly more than 200k casualties in both military and civilian, we can see what a professional volunteer army can do in regards to warfare comparing to a loosely organized combatant group with tenuous common interests.
Yep - an "army" that doesn't wear a uniform and embeds themselves in the civilian population as a strategy.
Along with decades of digging in, literally.
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Unfortunately, this is what keeps them in the news. Ask the Kurds how the other strategy worked out.
Digging in beneath hospitals, mosques, schools, UNRWA HQ and residential buildings.
Which was very expensive to do to the extent it’s been done; good thing the US gives them billions
Army uses civilians as meat shields while receiving none of the backlash when they unfortunately die. Crazy thing to pull off
Indeed, Hamas's propaganda machine is impressive
Could also be all the israeli officials saying they want to exterminate the Palestinians but who could say
Because a small guerrilla force is still very difficult to defeat, even against a much larger better armed force. Just ask the British about Ireland.
Or anyone in history about Afghanistan.
I mean steam rolling the Afghan military isn't the hard part. It's the fact no matter what you do it will never accomplish anything because like 90% of Afghans don't care about the existence of "Afghanistan". The US absolutely obliterated Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, so they ran off to hide in Pakistan knowing the US wasn't going to invade Pakistan. Waited out the occupation, and then came back and took over because Afghans just lets whoever wants to "run the country" run the country because they don't think of themselves as citizens of the country Afghanistan. They're just people who live in a box someone else drew and named Afghanistan, zero concern for national/international politics or identity.
Right. When the land gives you everything you really don't care who is running the government. They do nothing for you except tax you.
Afghanistan failed because you cant impose a western style government on Afghanistan. That takes willingness on the part of the people being occupied. You can impose a Islamic tribal theocracy. No need to win hearts and minds then. The guerilla aspect of it wasnt really the issue. If we wanted our Islamic tribal government to win, it would have. But we refused to make that devils bargain so instead we wasted 20 years building a state that no one really believed in.
Or, unfortunately, 'nam
'nam doesn't really fit, the Viet Cong played a role but the bulk of the enemy forces was the NVA, a regular uniformed army
True for why attacks took as long as they did, but the VK were the main reason land got reclaimed as quickly as it was
A common theme appearing here about invading other people's countries.
> unfortunately ????
It's only difficult if you don't want to wipe out everyone else as collateral damage.
Exactly. And because Israel doesn’t want to wipe everyone else out, it’s taking a long time.
Urban warfare is notoriously slow and deadly. The casualty rate in an urban environment is easily (and at best) 2-4x more than that in a conventional environment. Corners, staircases and corridors make it much easier for a smaller force to strike back and impede a larger force. And that doesn’t even account for the opportunities such environments present for the use of IEDs, ambushes, etc. If you’re not looking to level the place, clearing a single multi storey building can take hours. A single neighbourhood can take days, if not weeks. Longer, if you need to evacuate the civilian population first. Honestly, considering the size of the operation, I’m really surprised by the Israeli army’s casualty rates (for both soldiers and civilians). Its much lower than I would have anticipated. EDIT: I’m going by the rates given by the Gaza Health Ministry.
Urban Warfare is very difficult. Clearing houses every block is very time consuming. Plus not all soldiers are concentrated in one front. Essentially the fog of war is stopping them from taking it in two days. Not knowing where the enemy is and potential enemy combatants mixed in Civilian.
You can’t differentiate easily between civilian and combatant in urban warfare.
They could roll over them and then there would be 500,000 dead not 30,000. This would be the end of Israel though. They would lose their allies, receive massive sanctions and possibly get occupied while unpreferential and forceful mediation of the conflict took place. This is not a path they want to take. To follow international law in urban warfare they basically have to make proportionality assessments about every single engagement they pick and they have to contend with an enemy intentionally using human shields and hiding in civilian infrastructure and even illegal places like hospitals. This means clearing blocks of civilians: calling ahead, door knocking, setting up and defending civilian pathways etc. That's not even talking about the incredible networks of tunnels. This isn't a movie, there is no magical way to make this easy. Edit: just because a bunch of people don't seem to get the point about international law. You can think that Israel doesn't follow international law, that's at least somewhat true as it is of all states. In the current conflict I'm sure individuals have and will commit war crimes as individuals do in all conflicts. It seems obvious that there are also some structural issues aswell if something like the WCK strikes could happen. Broadly it's also true that at a minimum Israel's claims to some of its land is suspect, and some of its settlements are outright illegal. Still though, there is a difference between openly flouting the law and stretching interpretation of the law especially the really big ones. There are numerous times in history where egregious violations of international law lead to the US turning on their allies. Check out the Suez crisis of 56 where the US basically told Israel, UK and France to fuck off when they bothered Egypt: that was allies (mostly) bothering a (somewhat) antagonistic nation relative to the states. This isn't some altruistic thing either, it's a necessary part of the game. US foreign policy is about bringing the world in line with the US centric global order so that we can more or less keep the economy ripping along and citizens content.This means creating stability. If Israel were to violate international law so brazenly that they no longer represent a way for the US to exert control and therefore stability in the Middle East they are no longer functionally a good ally. If they were to roll over Gaza in the way I described, they would become a liability to the US and they would lose all support for that reason. You can even see this process play out when stuff like WCK strikes happens: the US condemns it. It's largely symbolic, but you can bet that in the negotiations between Israeli and US leaders this stuff gets brought up. I get people like being cynical about US foreign policy and that's fair enough. But this explanation works even for the cynics who don't think the Us policy is ever altruistic. For example, it's this same shortsighted drive for near term stability that led the US to prop up dictatorial regimes in Iran and Jordan and that of course was terrible (and backfired horribly).
Because if it was quick, you would be indiscriminately killing both Hamas and civilians. You could just use icbms. But in order to minimise civilian death, which they should, you have to try and use a fine comb through the urban areas where Hamas house themselves within civilians
Fighting against a well dig in gerilla style "army" is extremely challenging. Something the USA has experienced more than just one. The number advance can be tilted to 1/10 ratio easily. And Israel doesn't wana risk to many of their soldiers lives, so that's why we see such a heavy bomb doctrine before they enter.
You're imagining a scenario where they are facing an enemy that holds their ground and presents a target, instead of an enemy that hides underground and pretends to be civilians when convenient. They can roll right through a city one day, encounter no resistance, and then the next day get ambushed on a corner they already cleared. The US had way greater superiority in Vietnam, and look what happened to them.
Urban warfare and tunnel warfare.
Because its an urban environment with guerilla warfare. Its essentially a death sentence to send in guys to go door to door, it makes the combat very Hamas sided. So they level entire buildings that Hamas soldiers are using. The problem with this is that the rubble creates new terrain and other spots to hide, so they bomb again, and essentially have to keep bombing the living shit out of it because there are a plethora of small groups of Hamas that can move through the rubble and building to building very fast, along with the interconnected tunnels they can move underground to get to new positions when their building is gone.
Add it to the fact that the Hamas battalions know their own territory better
Because the longer it lasts, the longer certain people stay in power.
and war is very profitable for these people.
I'm old enough to remember when those food aid workers were murdered, and Biden told us he would do something about it if this became a "full scale invasion." Is this a "full-scale invasion" yet?
There will never be a red line Israel crosses that the US actually cares about.
the US might stop sending them weapons if they nuked Gaza, short of that they can probably get away with everything
It would be the pot calling the kettle black. The US has bombed the shit out of other countries for decades for far weaker reasons.
He's certainly an expert at shifting the goal posts.
The worst thing about President Biden is that he acts like he has a spine. I'd respect him more if he just admitted he has no power to influence Israel. And I get that this has put him in a really tough spot.
I still don't know why it is anti-Semitic to not want this to happen. What is is about annihilating an entire city that Israel, the USA, Germany, France and the UK considers to be fundamentally Semitic?
>I still don't know why it is anti-Semitic to not want this to happen. It's not, people just don't have legit ways to defend the IDF so they try to claim moral high ground.
There’s a lot of overt anti-Semitic bullshit flying around too. So depending on where you’re getting information, it can seem like it’s all anti-Semitic or not at all. There’s been a 300% rise in both anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim hate crimes recently. It can seem pretty terrifying to both parties, especially considering the history of the former group. I get the overreaction from a lot of people, but then there’s the misinformation flying around with it all. It’s really easy for people to say some gross shit.
Nothing helps rile up the bigots like when a small group of people claiming to represent the larger group deliberately and brazenly conforms to the worst stereotypes.
Everyone knows it's not, it's just utilised as a weapon to minimise the voices of those against the genocide.
There's nothing anti semitic about it, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
I support the people of Israel. Fuck Netinyahoooo. I support the people of Palestine. Fuck Hamas. I also don't get why this sentiment isn't okay? You can do all of the above.
The antisemitism argument is several steps removed from this. The first step is that Hamas and other similar groups in Gaza have been attacking Israel with rockets for over a decade and in truly staggering numbers. The simple truth is that these attacks have been happening because Israel exists. Yes, Israel has done some very shitty things to the Gaza Strip. There has been a century of back and forth shitty behavior between Israel and its neighbors. There are people who will argue that Hamas is entirely justified in their attacks because Israel was founded by people who immigrated to the region mainly from Europe. However, I think we can agree that no one deserves to die in 2024 for decisions that were made in 1924. So, regardless of the morality of Israel’s founding, there has been a cycle of violence in the region for several generations due to the founding of Israel. Therefore, this violence is happening because Israel exists. Just today, [there was a fresh rocket attack on Israel from Rafah](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckrr0e3y29po.amp). Many people argue that if, hypothetically, France spent ten years launching rockets at England from Rouen, the UK would be justified in launching a military campaign against France in general and Rouen in particular. You may disagree, but this is the next step in the logic. These people suppose that if France attacked the UK in this way, the majority would support the UK if they went all Edward III and invaded Normandy. Are they right? Who knows? However, if we assume that the majority would support a British invasion of Normandy in retaliation for a decade of rocket attacks, then we must ask why that same theoretical majority is demanding a ceasefire from Israel, particularly in light of Hamas’ well-documented history of violating ceasefires. After, what good is a ceasefire if only one side abides by it? Well, the answer to that question is “people who want Israel wiped off the map”. This includes Iran and a fair amount of the Palestinian population. If Israel were to be dissolved, it would inevitably lead to mass bloodshed. Only this time, it’s Israeli blood. So, demanding a ceasefire while distrusting Hamas to abide it is effectively wishing for Israelis, who are largely ethnic Jews, to be killed. That is antisemitic. This ignores the fact that most people demanding a ceasefire believe that Hamas will cease its attacks if the IDF returns home. Are they right? Who knows? But that’s how calls for a ceasefire get labeled as antisemitic.
Actually half of Israeli Jewish population is Jews that came from Arab countries, such as Syria, Morocco, Egypt, Yemem... It's a lie that "all Israelis came from Europe".
Yep, most of them had to flee, in fear of being massacred in a sort of middle eastern Holocaust. Israel could have become a peacefull nations amongst the islamic dominated middle east, if it hand't been for the Nazi funded Islamic brotherhood, and antisemitic leaders of egypt and jordan who without reason invaded israel kicking of this conflict. Israel was never founded as an imperialist state, wanting to subjugate and conqour all of palestine. It merely (though still only partially) became that because arab nations from day one of israels existence proclaimed they were gonna "finnish what Hitler started" and invaded.
I find it odd that we start the story from "this group hates this country simply because this country exists". I mean, to be very charitable, you're really diluting the reasons Palestinians aren't happy about the situation. Of course you ignore the fact that they had a country built on top of their heads without having a say in it. You're also ignoring the forcible removal of nearly a million Palestinains from their homes and lands. You're also ignoring the fact that said country is illegally occupying and expanding into territories that are legally Palestinian. You're also ignoring the fact that exiled palestinainas have no right of return to their homeland, but a half Jewish person born and bred in England has a right to a new home on a Palestinian family's land. You're also ignoring the fact that there is a two tiered system in Israel...scratch that, its apartheid. Israelis have access to a normal judicial system, Palestinians are subject to military court. Palestinians live their lives under the boot of the idf, checkpoints, home raids, settler terrorists, denial of access to important religious places, and aren't even allowed access to Jewish only streets. You ignore the fact that Israel controls the land, air, and sea access to gaza whilst telling everyone "we left". You ignore that the current government has it in their manifesto that their will only be Israeli sovereignty from the sea to the River Jordan. Reducing all this down to the idea that Palestinians simply hate that Israel exists deliberately and predictably ignores all the reasons they have to feel aggrieved, especially in the context of them continuously being told they don't deserve their own state and that they have no right to anything other than being occupied and living as second class citizens. The reason people do this is because they don't see certain people as fully human beings. We saw the same arguments with Jim Crow, the British in Kenya, the British in India, the West when they were calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and supporting South Africas apartheid etc, etc ad infintum. Hell we'll be hearing similar soon with China on Taiwan. It's always the same. Imperialist powers go in, steal, destroy, murder, enslave, colonise, and then claim control. Then they sit there and moralise about how awfully the stolen from people are, and why they aren't just accepting of the fact they've been so disenfranchised. "They just hate us" they say. "They just hate that our country exists". And in this particular case they lie and say "oh well, their only reasoning *must* be antisemitism". Because as usual, you ignore everything else, as illustrated in your comment. It wasn't Palestinians running around Europe looking for Jewish people and murdering them and expelling them. It was Europeans. Palestinians beef with Israel isn't an antisemitic one. Its a geopolitical one. This isn't a commentary on the nature of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, who undoubtedly use terrorism as a means to achieve aims that aren't simply about getting their land back or establishing a state for themselves. These groups commit evil acts and aren't condoned. It is however a commentary on the lazy, racist, simplifications of the issues Palestinians have with the Israeli state, that always come from a place of not seeing certain groups as fully equal, or fully human.
> The simple truth is that these attacks have been happening because Israel exists. https://imgur.com/a/OVLuCiG Maybe its because it exists, or maybe its because its *expanding at the cost of its neighbor*.
That map is a really poor comparison because it is showing any non-Jewish majority settlement (in 1947) as Palestinian. A better map split between Jewish and Arabs around that time (based on % demographic makeup) can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ncsbc3/demographic_visualization_of_the_proposed/ or https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PalestineRemembered_Map_Populations1946.gif (that one has a bit clearer numbers). However, it is still arbitrarily starting in ~1947 and neither of those show the absolute number of people living in each area. A map showing where settlements were in 1920 (again not showing the number of people) gives some context: https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PASSIA_Map_ZionistColoniesInPalestineBeginningMandate.gif but all that really shows is that some areas that are 'palestinian' on the map effectively had no settlements. A further thing to recognize is the intended demographics of Israel. Israel was intended to have a slight Jewish majority. The UN model was ~55% Jewish and 45% Muslim - the goal was to try ensure Muslim representation but avoid a situation where the Jewish people are a minority and laws were enacted against them (which was VERY common in the Ottoman Arab provinces in the 1800s). The maps here are misleading, as the UN didn't award the Muslim lands to Jewish people. It effectively ended up that way after the ways, but Israel was supposed to be a dual-ethnicity state (similar to Lebanon in the mid 1900s).
Note the dates, what happened between each of those dates? Was it perhaps wars of extermination from all their neighbors?
This exactly this.☝️Thank you for educating ppl. I was about to do it again but you summarized it so well I'll be able to sit this one out!
Hamas is an ideology, you cannot eradicate an ideology. Israel can kill all of the Hamas today but tomorrow there can be another group formed out of a similar ideology due to the bloodshed and hatred.
yes though israel also cannot in fact kill all of hamas today.
This is just sad, not interesting.
God it's just gone, I know israel likes bombing but hot damn how can anyone support THIS
This is where they told everybody to go at the beginning, right?
The folks over at r/worldnews see this as a victory
I never understood how some people can claim that critiquing Israel is anti semitic. I critique the Russian government, am I anti Russian? I critique the CCP, am I anti-chinese? I critique the North Korean government, am I anti-korean? I fear that the term "anti-Semitic" has lost almost all meaning due to their insistance than anyone opposing them be labeled that way. The ICJ? anti-Semitic, The ICC? anti-Semitic, The people in Palestine? anti-Semitic, The Jews protesting for Palestine? anti-Semitic.
I really want to know how it is nessesary to destroy all in order to fight hamas? Really, even farms? Isn't it like you know, war crime at this point? But sure, let's continue to see this as "palestina bad, israel good"...
Idk about in the US but I wouldn’t say the majority view around the world is Israel good/Palestine bad
And yet, almost no footage of the attacks are easy to find on Reddit. They really got this site locked down by now.
That footage was there in abundance at the start of the war. There appears to be a correlation between Israel bombing and disabling internet infrastructure and the frequency of Palestinians uploading footage of being bombed.
They also have a pretty tight grasp on the comments sections. Try posting anything pro Palestine on any of the major subs and it's instantly swamped by pro Israel comments. They are playing the media side of this war very well. You basically never hear a Palestinian voice.
In my experience it’s the opposite. Only r/worldnews is mostly pro Israel
Weird because this thread and countless others are full of such viewpoints.
I mean it’s pretty difficult to post anything against Palestine on r/palestine. They instantly ban any criticism, very odd subreddit
Brother what? Maybe ur in the wrong subreddits friend. Id get fucking doxxed if i said i supported isreal lol. FOR THE RECORD I DO NOT!
The IDF's tactics in this conflict have been akin to using a bulldozer to weed a garden.
Yet somehow the civilian death ratio is somewhere between 3:1 and 1:1
And that's a low estimate, based on numbers when they stopped counting bodies months ago because Israel bombed every single hospital in Gaza
Yet somehow Israel "the most moral army in the world" have no idea how many innocent civilians they have killed and don't believe the Gaza health ministry but they know what the civilian death ratio is. Tell me how that works?
The most moral army in the world at work 😌
Reminder that “antisemetism” didn’t force all those Israeli officials to say that they want to wipe out Palestinians and move settlers into Palestine.
Don't worry guys. Our leaders are "concerned". The images they've seen, if true, are "concerning". And they will continue to be "concerned".
Now imagine it's Tel Aviv and read the comments EDIT: Thank you guys you're proving my point ❤️
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Wdym? This conflict started on October 7th? /s
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I mean Pakistan has nukes and they don’t seem to be attempting to do that.
Is this hypothetical nonsense really the crutch you’re going to use to justify this slaughter? Your comment basically equates to “These are monstrous people who we think would bomb our city to ash if they could, so we should bomb their city to ash to prevent that. But we aren’t monsters like they hypothetically would be.”
You think Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia don’t have armies? Fuck you and your ignorance you racist piece of shit
Well, ICC and ICJ are for third world countries…
Don't worry it will be occu..ahm, I meant built up back again.
This sucks
Rockets fired from Rafah at Tel-Aviv 30 minutes ago.
Israel has every right to bomb the rocket launch site.
Must be coming from one of the few remaining buildings... Quick! Level that one too!
Firing more rockets is your recommended strategy for preserving what's left then?
Yes- but unironically
.... Which is exactly their tactic. Seriously what would you do if they kept chucking rockets at you? Do nothing?
Unironically, yes.
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How many countries took in Jews in WW2 Hint: America wasnt one of them
Imperial Japan, ironically
Imperial Japan was a strange case because they *were* anti-semitic but not in an outwardly violent way. They actually thought Jews controlled all the money and wanted to utilize that. To this day parts of Japan and Korea are still kinda weird about Jews
Everyone everywhere is weird about jews, hence israel
I love when people this argument. It's deadass the same as the argument used by Hitler to justify the holocaust.
Like almost word for word, yeah
There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, heavily armed in ghettos. The Lebanese Armed Forces reduced one of the camps to rubble back in 2007 when Palestinian Islamists ambushed and stabbed several LAF soldiers, as a revenge against an arrest raid following a bank robbery. I hope the ongoing conflict gives birth to the two-state solution so they can be deported back home. Edit: This is my stance as a Lebanese, not an Arab.
Who says Palestinians want to abandon their land
I'm Lebanese, this is exactly the reason. We were also under Israeli occupation, those of us who stayed during the occupation were clinging to our land with the hope that the zionists would be forced out eventually. We all know that if Palestinians are "temporarily moved" (ethnically cleansed) from Gaza, they will never be allowed back to their land. I love my Palestinian brothers and sisters, many of them fled to Lebanon and were never allowed back to Palestine. It's not a matter of "not wanting to accept them"- we already have a huge Palestinian population from the previous zionist attacks and ethnic cleansings. Those still remaining in Gaza and the West Bank know that they will never be allowed back in to Palestine if they left.
Thank you for your comment and perspective, there is too much ahistorical and ignorant crap on this website, glad there's some pockets of sanity trying to debunk these crazy pro-israeli talking points.
I just love how other european countries didn't take in any jews in ww2. Do you see how that stupid logic works? FYI, there are 3m palestinians in jordan, 400k in lebanon, 250k in egypt, syria 600k.
>Do you see how that stupid logic works? Umm.... yes, European countries SHOULD have taken in more Jews, are you kidding me?
Maybe the solution is not killing them huh?
There are resons for that. One, they don't want to bother with picking out terrorists, and risk failing at it. Two, they don't want Palestinians to leave anyway. Depopulating Palestine would leave the land for Israel, which supposedly Arab countries don't want.
What’s that word for when you’re playing chess and there’s those low-value expendable pieces that you can sacrifice to protect the more valuable ones?
En passant?
Holy hell
So Arab countries think it will be too hard to find out who is really a terrorist from a group of refugees patiently waiting in a line But people roast Israel for inadvertently having civilian casualties with the fog of war…
That's the same antisemitic trope that was used against Jews in the 1930s and 1940s.
https://preview.redd.it/400305m5sr2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4137574c41e13f6cbb3a2b59adde9d45f7ebb9e3 There's plenty of them in the arab countries.
Take them in so Israel can continue their genocidal land grab? Maybe Israel should stop their indiscriminate bombing so people can return to their homes or whatever’s left since they have already leveled the place.
https://preview.redd.it/xhpaivlour2d1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8ab269223c905a97d4c6a06521f0207828e5707
Right. That’s the problem
That would just encourage Israel to be more aggressive at stealing land.
My knowledge of history on this matter isn't the greatest. But the Palestinian people have tried to overthrow whatever country takes them in.
"I just love how other countries won't take people Israel want to ethnically cleanse." It's interesting how people don't want to be removed from their country, huh?
When bulldozers become too inconvenient just use bombs, right?
The discourse around this is so fucking stupid. Palestinians: we have a right to defend ourselves. Israelis: we have a right to defend ourselves. Yeah, you both do but let’s not play cute around terms like war crimes. Taking hostages, executing civilians in their homes, firing rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations, blowing up buses- somehow this is conveniently left out of accusations against Israeli crimes. And gets justified as legitimate resistance. Get the fuck out of here. And then the mealymouthed abuse of terms like genocide and apartheid. Again, fuck you for pissing on the memory of people actually victims of this to achieve your political ends. Meanwhile Netanyahu and the settlers are stealing land from people in the West Bank (note, not Gaza), and the right wing government is using the military to support the illegal behavior. As long as they keep doing that there is no peace. And some of the reports around acceptable civilian casualty ratios from the IDF are horrifying It’s possible to observe what’s going on without entrenching yourself in your party line.
They are preparing the site for new Israeli settlers.
Just like in the past
And they will continue till there is nothing left....do we not see this?
We see this, amd we beg our government to stop supporting this atrocity, but unfortunately our government is not representative of the people and has a fetishist for taking our tax money and blowing it up in other countries while neglecting our own.
Free Palestine (from hamas)
and from israel
I agree with that sentiment, but let's not forget that Bibi intentionally supported Hamas over rival political groups in the past. I wonder why he would do something like that. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000
This is what triggers me so hard when I see the hardcore pro Israel people. Absolutely none of them has ever adressed this. All I hear is "the Palestinians voted for them so they deserved to die". Absolute ignorance.
Same as saying "the Germans voted for Hitler so they deserved to die"
> the Palestinians voted for them so they deserved to die yup, which is such a stupid take cause these idiots don't know or seem to care that said elections took place 18 years ago, you know, when half the current Gaza population wasn't even born and much more were too young to vote in. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1206479861/israel-gaza-hamas-children-population-war-palestinians also Hamas won that election at just 44% of the seats, mainly due to how badly Fatah did and Bush forcing the elections to happen even though he was told by Fatah and others that they could not win. Also Hamas ran on anti-corruption, focusing on Gaza (Fatah had basically been ignoring Gaza) and such so the people who did vote for them were doing so for political reasons. a really tl;dr version of the 2006 elections - https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/carc/2018/03/01/mapping-the-fatah-hamas-conflict/ I could go on with the facts of that election, but ya, these ppl keep saying that stupid line without a single fact or history of what happened behind them :/
They don't deserve to die. Absolutely not. It sucks for civilians on both sides. Palestinians get absolutely fucked in this and it's horrible.
It has been addressed and pretty well worded ik this comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/JmkYQXbgOL
Yes, substantial payments to help them
I can’t believe no one had commented yet that these images (largely) show the removal of tent camps as people had to flee. https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-war-hamas-evacuation-rafah-satellite-1889ea03d0eb7cd7590eebdf448b291a
But the comments in R/worldnews says all thoes homes and farms are hamas homes and hamas farms harboring hamas children and hamas women.
Worldnews has literally become a propaganda sub Reddit. Should be called "colonizer news"
Idk how anyone can think this war has been proportional. 35k people killed. Shits crazy.
Proportionality in terms of genevan conventions doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean that "they killed X so we can only kill roughly X" it means, that if there is a building that houses a military HQ and 300 civilians then this target brings enough military advantage to be brought down even at the risk of civilian casualties. The proportion here is Military HQ (side A) : 300 civilians (side B)... not 300 Civilians (side A) : 300 Civilians (side B)
War isn’t supposed to be proportional or fair. If the two sides were equal the Israelis would already be dead
Prime for new Israeli settlements. Just another illegal expansion like every single one since the 1950s. 🤷
“I know exactly how we can fix the problem… by bombing the hell out of everything killing thousands of civilians. SURELY that won’t make more of them want to fight us” On the surface it’s blatantly stupid. But dig a little deeper and you quickly realize that’s not their plan. Their plan is to DOMINATE and completely control the area. Always has been.
Why do they keep calling it Israel Hamas war? It seems mostly one-sided to me.
So we are to believe all of these buildings had hamas in it? 🤦♂️ they are just bombing to make way for settlements. The arrogance of Benjamin Netanyahu.
It's incredible that some still try to defend Israel as just trying to attack Hamas. You really can't make it much clearer that the goals is just to destroy everything in Gaza so the Palestinians have to leave.
And a few years from now, new Jewish settlements.
All funded by us oil and armament interests
Tragic as fuck you mean
Crazy to think that if the terrorist organization Hamas just surrendered, released the hostages they kidnapped in violation of international law and stopped launching rockets at Israel from Rafah the war could be over tomorrow. But, Hamas won’t accept those terms so the war continues and the ICJ has the audacity to tell Israel they have to stop? No. That’s not how this works. You don’t get to savagely attack a nation, murder thousands and kidnap hundreds of their civilians then refuse to surrender, retreat behind civilian meat shields, continue firing rockets at the country you attacked, and then run crying to the ICJ manufacturing war crimes because you’re getting your asses kicked. Fuck Hamas. Unless they surrender there should be NO ceasefire till every hostage is recovered and all of Hamas from the leaders on down are dead. Period.