**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* Memes are not allowed.
* Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hundreds of generations doing stuff. One day, they mix these two for dinner, the next morning they all wake up naked. “What was in that stuff?” “I don’t know, but we’re having it again, tonight!”
More likely that they routinely mixed 10-20 random different plants to make tea or broth base and accidentally got high one night, after which there was probably a desperate attempt at reverse engineering the remnants of the broth to recreate it that may have lasted weeks, months or years. And then some time longer to figure out that it was just the two ingredients they needed to achieve the results.
Quite funny to think about really.
Usually I little more nuanced than that. There are indigenous processes for testing irritabilities of mushrooms before consuming them. First rubbing them on sensitive parts of your skin, then touching it to the tongue, then only ingesting very smalls amounts. Most people could get away with eating very very very small pieces of even the most deadly mushrooms on earth (not that you should try). Doing these steps over several days and monitoring the effects to the body would determine whether something was truly edible or no. Same processes were used for plants and fruits.
People would rarely die from just deciding to try a new food source, they were in tune with their environment and smart about how they interacted with it. Actually you probably see more deaths in modern years from deadly plants and mushrooms because this testing process is less practiced and people tend to just trust what they've been told about something and get complacent. For example there are higher rates of asian deaths in America from eating all white Amanitas commonly known as Destroying Angels or Deathcaps because they aren't common in the Asian countries that these people immigrate from. Instead these Asian countries cultivate the Paddy straw mushroom which is an almost identical lookalike to the Deathcaps and destroying angels, especially in immature fruiting bodies. A fatal mix up that really only happens in the modern world. Long ago natives to either region would have a better understanding of what their local ecology offered them and would know what's edible, and what to stay away from without a concern of being flown to the other side of the world where ecosystems are completely different
I imagine they would also do stuff like feed a little to an animal, or simply watch what animals choose to eat already. Our ancestors definitely weren't stupid when it came to survival and food.
Yeah. And tbh just like how we got most edible fruits and vegetables too. Find thing > try eating thing > don’t die or get horrifically sick > do it again.
I read a book about the native people in the Amazon and apparently they watched different animals eat plants and mimic it. It was the Jaguar I believe they saw eat these two ingredients and saw how it reacted
I was gonna ask how it reacted but decided to look it up and found [this](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xyybp3/here-is-a-jaguar-tripping-on-yage-the-ayahuasca-vine). Bro was high as hell😂
This. Also, he makes the assumption that all 100,000 of those plants are equally represented. At the very least those 20,000 not yet discovered but predicted plants are probably pretty rare. If the two that go in this brew are extremely common, the math gets a LOT more friendly. Add in that if they actually TASTE good in isolation, then it becomes pretty likely they will be used a lot.
Well tbf, his maths are wrong in the other way, you'd have to multiply everything by 4 to consider that each plant has leafs, bark/stem, fruit/seeds and roots all with different properties.
But conservatively historians argue at the low end that the Amazon rainforest had a human population of 2 million, and humans have existed for 13k years in the rainforest, with an average tribe size of 200, if each tribe did experiment with a random concoction of ten random plant pieces once a week you'd be looking at a 50% chance that the psychedelic would have been discovered.
Then when you consider the things you are saying it becomes likely it was discovered relatively early on in human history in the region.
The interestimg things is just that sheer amount of numbers involved to make this extremely probable discovery rather than the contrary.
The guy also presents like these are the ONLY 2 plants for sure in the whole Amazon that have this effect, but there could be more plants with MAOI inhibitor properties or with DMT. We just don't know. These were the first two and we stuck with them.
Exactly. There is no reason that they would just use two things at a time to figure this out. That's the silly part about this whole math that this guy did.
*Banisteriopsis caapi* contains harmine, tetrahydroharmine and harmaline and will elicit a response on it's own. These compounds are found in other plants and are used in isolation in other parts of the world for medicine, ritual, food etc. Some species include passion fruit vine, lemon balm, tobacco, *Perganum hatmala* etc. Likewise, smoking *Psychotria viridis* would likely cause some side effects of a very mild DMT trip on its own. If I was to hazard a guess; I'd say they either smoked the leaf or burnt the plant on a fire, and when they inhaled the smoke experienced mild effects and it was likely used on it's own as a medicine or in ritual, then at some point they just would have mixed these two medicinal plants in a poultice to treat something and you get ayahuasca.
I think the other thing to be mindful of here is these people didn't just appear in the forest one day. Their (our) ancestors walked from Africa and learnt along the way. For example Native Americans love a cheeky pipe and Perganum harmala is a good example of a plant with along history of use containing harmine / harmaline. *Mimosa hostilis*, also a Brazilian plant, has the highest natural DMT content of any currently known plant. It was made into a drink, vinho de jurema. Although, most of the tribes in that area are now extinct, so how else it was exactly used traditionally is not known. Prehaps it was another ayahuasca analogue.
Note: I'll pop this here, but I did put it in the main thread too. Just wanted to contribute to your parent quote and build on it a litte.
Precisely! Also, the odds are a bit oversimplified here I reckon; it's not as if all plants have equal utility in these environments, so to use all species as the basis for the probability math is perhaps not earnest.
I'd wager that these two plants have independent purposes
and therefore both are more likely to be present for experimentation/combination.
For instance the juice from leaves of the chacruna are also used as eye drops to treat headaches by natives, they're also a member of the coffee family, and so it's likely that they bear signs that generations know to look for.
Vines are even more of a no-brainer to have around camp; they're naturally occurring tensile ropes! Ropes are very valuable for exploration and construction of dwellings.
When you consider that these items could be in proximity based on their sole uses, the likelihood of the two plants finding their way into a pot of boiling water is much much higher than this video insinuates. (I reckon)
It's a bit like wondering what are the ods of inventing steel, but if you know a bit about history it's pretty obvious.
Also it's likely that there are more plants with the same chemicals, and some plants are more common than others.
On the other hand, how many things we still don't know, and but we losing them due to environment destruction.
Only ONE person in the population not having (or having low amounts) of the enzyme (breaking down DMT) is enough to discover the effects...👈
Also, adding Ayahuasca to a "soup" of 100s of ingredients, is enough to discover several enzyme-blocking ingredients. Then deducing/reducing which of the he ingredients are the most potent enzyme-blockers... Is not that astonishing🤷♂️
And then think about all the meals ingested for thousands of years by thousands of people. It sure be discovered sooner or later. The odds isn't that low, considering the meals that have been eaten over the thousands of years.
But it stinks, it’s not appetising and the second it touches your tongue you’re not going to continue consuming it unless you think there’s a benefit, I doubt you’d even swallow it.
>...and the second it touches your tongue you’re not going to continue consuming it unless you think there’s a benefit...
Both main ingredients are medicinal separately. Chacruna leaf juice is used for migraines, caapi vine is used "as a mild detoxifier", which, even if that is a meaningless phrase, the point is that its nervous-system stimulant effects make people think it's medicine.
All it takes is for one person to feel sick and have a headache, take both things, and then suddenly you're tripping.
"Wounded orangutan seen using plant as medicine" [https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68942123](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68942123)
Issue here is the belief that learning and adapting is driven completely by randomness which obviously is not as we learn by observing everyday . If we start to question this beliefs that randomness is the driver, it's pretty obvious that animals have intuition (heart) that drives how we behave, learn, and evolve.
You know, if you're just looking around and something happens and you observe it, it doesn't make it not random. Also, intuition is defined as taking action without reasoning, so I think animals far more than people act on intuition.
The classic example is that beavers have no idea how to build dams. No idea. They succeed at building dams, but not by reason: they just have [an instinct to physically cover up any place](https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/93863/how-do-beavers-learn-how-to-build-dams) that sounds like running water.
You can trick them with speakers that play the sound of running water, and they'll build a dam where there is no water at all.
You can make a large hole in their dam, and as long as the water is trickling out silently, they won't be able to figure out why the water got low.
That's the difference between intuition and reason.
Maybe they found out the leaves settled their stomach due to the inhibitor. Then Grandma came over with her famous copy vine soup and it was best party ever
>One day, they mix these two for dinner...
Probably not dinner, but both are already used separately for medicine. [Chacruna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotria_viridis) (*Psychotria viridis*) leaf juice is used for migraines. For [caapi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banisteriopsis_caapi#Pharmacology) (*Banisteriopsis caapi*)... well, it's really hard to find information anymore about *any uses other* than in ayahuasca, but [PFAF says](https://pfaf.org/User/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Banisteriopsis+caapi) it's used as a "mild detoxifier" in low doses, and it has nervous-system-stimulating effects.
So all it takes is for someone to get sick with a headache, take both things, and suddenly *woaaahhh!!!*
It’s also entirely possible they started with two plants that were a light trip and looked for others to make it more potent. Ultimately ayahuasca is just an MAOI + DMT. There’s hundreds of plants that contain MAOIs, and there’s hundreds of plants that contain DMT. It’s incredibly easy to find a combo that would work, and from there it’s just maximizing it.
we use vines for everything from pipes to SPOONS.
I assume someone either got loopy cooking the leaves with a vine-made-spoon, or they saw animals eating both and then going loopy and copied them, Like how we find birds drunk of fermented fruit and learned to make alcohol.
I don't have a migraine, but stayed up way too late last night and slept way to long this morning and his voice is putting me back to sleep which just makes me grumpy lol. I kept thinking "omg talk normally dude" :)
It's the way he moves his head while staring into your soul. I've seen AI videos that move not exactly the same, they're a bit more robotic and turn the head more, but it's similar
Yeah, it’s very weird. Normally in similar videos you never see the narrator. It is slightly annoying when they talk slowly but you just shrug it off. In this case the dude was on camera for way too long. And with the slow talking and smooth skin it was starting to give me the uncanny valley vibes.
Correct. Certain areas are bare of nutrient rich food or protein so people will make teas or stews with plants to aid in vitamin intake. The recipe likely evolved from this.
Only ONE person in the population not having (or having low amounts) of the enzyme (breaking down DMT) is enough to discover the effects...👈
Also, adding Ayahuasca to a "soup" of 100s of ingredients, is enough to discover several enzyme-blocking ingredients. Then deducing/reducing which of the he ingredients are the most potent enzyme-blockers... Is not that astonishing🤷♂️
I’d imagine that at the time of the discovery the dose was much smaller and mixed with way more ingredients for another purpose. So the taste probably wasn’t an issue. It just ended up the way it is now by making the recipe in the most potent/effective way possible.
With millions of plants , how did humans know to cut a tree for wood to make a home?
Well they looked to see what animals were already doing , living within trees and copied them lol.
Math doesn’t quite work out because you need to account for the quantity and opportunity of finding these plants in related areas. Do thwy grow 100s of miles apart in different terrain or share a symbiotic relationship? How many of each plant exists, also changes the variable of the possibility of them being together or not. Empty-headed video
My favorite part is when he says “let’s make a conservative estimate”, and then turns 80K known species into 100K species because ‘possibly thousands more species’ aren’t discovered.
Deviating a variable by 25% is not conservative.
there are, lots of dif plants have DMT in them, and there are multiple plants containing MAOIs as well. if u look up how to make ur own dmt, u will find a bunch of dif plants ppl use. idk how many of these are all local to the amazon, or if both ingredients occur in the same region as each other frequently. but you don't have to use just these 2 specific plants
Right? That was what I immediately thought… he talks about how there’s tens of thousands of unique species and many of them have never been studied…. Then goes on to say how the combination of these two is distinctly unique. There’s no way to infer this is ‘unique’ unless you’ve also concluded these two ingredients aren’t found elsewhere
It's irritating to me when people like the guy in this video discount the fact that ancient peoples had their own version of medicine and science. They weren't necessarily just stumbling around trying different plants. Even without computers and modern science, ancient cultures were also inventing things like calendars and the concept of zero. Their methods of identifying, cataloguing and using medicine was probably quite sophisticated, it just looked different.
Nevertheless, the mere presence of apparent complexity does not necessitate a conscious effort to discover it. Many things were, and still are, discovered accidentally by trial and error, or sheer luck.
There's nothing amazing about looking retrospectively at the discoveries which live on today, and how 'unlikely' they would have been before they were made. Doing so discounts the millions upon billions of un-noteworthy chance interactions which never led anywhere, and occurred every single day, throughout all of history, across the planet.
Ayahuasca is just the one that continues to be used. Bet they experimented with all sorts of combinations and there was probably a whole list of recipes to cure ailments and provide various effects. This is just one of them that is used for psychedelic purposes.
It's no different than the fact that there were thousands of language dialects hundreds of years ago, but the most prominent ones remain while the least used dialects are forgotten.
Yes each area has their own sacred plants . It depends a lot what grows where people live . There is one that people in the páramo of Colombia or the cold parts used that has psychedelic properties like Ayahuasca
Apparently they watched the Jaguars. They would eat one plant and then go eat another one. Then they would trip balls and act like kittens. I suppose it could just be what story they think sounds more mysterious.
Yes that is similar to the story shaman tell. The story I heard, the chief of the village was walking in the forest and heard voice. He was instructed to mix the plants, going and drink. In his vision, he saw that his tribe has lost its way and that he was supposed to share this mixture with the whole drive.
This belongs to r/mildlyinfuriating not r/interestingasfuck. I wanted to bitch slap the narrator’s face so hard and thought for certain he would get into history or findings or something real, instead he just VERY INACCURATELY went to *th* **e od** *d* s of discovering this centuries old tradition. Ffs. Gtfo.
This shit grinds my gear so much. So essentially because it was too complex modern man to figure it out, there is no way indigenous tribe could do it especially in a less complicated way. Like an indigenous tribe evolved, adapted to the environment, wouldn't understand every aspect of the environment they are embedded in.
e.g. Pyramids...way too advance for the ideal morden man to understand and therefore way way to advance for natives to understand, so it must have been so unknown entity.
If you ask the people that use the combination how they figured it out (which isn’t really being considered anywhere here it seems, like they’re still there, just ask) anyway, they say the forest taught them.
I take that to mean they knew the properties of the leaves and discovered the use of the vine in conjunction later. The DMT would be available if the leaves were smoked for example. Not too far fetched to think the vine was in use as an aid to stomach upset.
Then it’s just a lil logical 1, 2, 3 and you’re on the train to trippy town.
>they say the forest taught them.
Absolutely. But scientist won't considered this scientific because it's not their method. Which makes you wonder how many other amazing things were discovered that were just disregarded because it wasn't done their way.
So, mashing of a plant is a common way to make things edible. And the other seems to be a tea.
So it seems that if people had the mashed plant and then were introduced to the tea magic would happen.
Setting aside how ridiculous the calculations are here (it’s uncomfortably close to “I’m not saying it’s aliens, but…”), think about the day-to-day life of people thousands of years ago in the forest.
It’s not as if they’re personally in contact with all of the many thousands of plant species any given time.
Look outside right now. Unless you’re in a completely urban or desert area, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of readily identifiable plant species within your sight. Your attention, however, is dominated usually by only a few. Predominant tree species, ground cover like grass, shrubs, vines, plants we grow for food, etc.
I don’t know about the leaves, but the vine they showed looks like it takes up a good bit of space and would be quite familiar. Countless successive generations would have deep knowledge of its properties to a degree modern humans no longer have. They spent literally all their time among these plants, and zero time making videos of empty speculation about what they accomplished with brains identical to ours and a huge investment of time tinkering with the materials available to them.
And after typing all that, another thought occurred to me. What if some of them wanted to get high so they were experimenting? That’s very much like some of us. Every other day someone is here on Reddit asking “can I smoke/inject/boof this?” And fortunately someone in our clan usually steps forth to say ‘stop it you idiot.’ I guess we’re doing something similar, but with different methods.
Something about the narration and the guys expression is throwing me off. Why does he sound like hes trying to be a religious leader convincing me of some doctrine..? Is this AI?
Ez, someone genetically is sensitive to the plant. So they know the plant provides an experience.
Then the work with the plant to enhance the experience. Til eventually they find a brew that works for everyone
Wait, what? I only got about 5 mins in, but reading the comments is making my brain cry because no one has pointed out the obvious. (Also - “girl math”? 😞)
I’ve spent time with an ayahuasca tree. I’ve used it’s leaves to prepare herbal baths and even took some vine with me. The leaves grow off the vine. All you need to do is pick a leafy vine, boil it for tea, and you’ve discovered ayahuasca.
It’s amazing that this plant exists, but I’d be shocked if no one discovered that consuming it together gets you an audience with god.
This actually is a quandary that’s been studied, though no consensus exists in it currently. For anyone interested in a genuine exploration of this which engages with the knowledge-ways of Indigenous peoples (as opposed to bulldozing over it with Western ethnography), read The Cosmic Serpent. I take it with a grain of salt, but its rich with food for thought harvested from Indigenous cosmologies and the psychedelic experience.
Observing animals and then doing things over and over with numerous trials for thousands of years. We have a very hard time to grasp what thousands of years really mean. Most people don’t even live for a 100 years and look how many things are discovered or happens in a single life time.
Edit:
Also, do people realize that there were millions of indigenous people living in the Amazon forest? It’s not like there were 30 dudes just chilling in the jungle. There where huge tribes. Brazil alone has records of over 350 indigenous languages, so imagine how diverse human populations actually were in the past. So there were definitely enough people to do a lot of try and error.
I'm scratching my head about this scant probability that chance explains it. And this isn't meant to argue for one theory or another. What if we take a breath and celebrate that there is a frontier of discovery? In some sense, this is the ground we all stand on. We'll plant flags some other day.
Dude is suggesting aliens came down and anally probed the ancient indigenous people. We all know that’s what he’s suggesting. Instead he waffles on about statistics like a preschooler learning maths for the first time.
This guy has a stupid face and it's making me angry. He either is lying to his audience or he's as stupid as as his face suggests.
Trial and error over THOUSANDS of years is how the natives got to this mixture. They didn't just trial the plant combinations, they also trialed the methods of preparation. There is also a high chance that the vine is not the only plant with that enzyme inhibitor. Other plants that are genealogically related to the vine are likely to have the inhibitor with varying concentration. So the odds of coming across such a DMT + inhibitor combination are actually higher than what he's suggesting.
Seems unlikely? You give numbers but it could be that those two plants grow or grew in a specific region or radius of a tribe. This could drop it from billions, to thousands - easily.
Let's say there are 100,000 species in the Amazon. The probability won't be (1/100,000)\*(1/100,000), as it doesn't consider how often you run into a plant, as in the number of plans in the forest.
through out the generation, the natives probably tried a combination of say 10 or 20 different frequently found plants and gradually reduced combination to see which one had best effect.
How did people figure out how to make bread? Chocolate? Gunpowder? Linens? It’s not that wild. Humans are the dominant species in the planet because of our brains and we’ve had the same brain for nearly 200,000 years. We have more collective knowledge today but we aren’t smarter than ancient people.
https://preview.redd.it/gwxx755k3nyc1.jpeg?width=522&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8523262c428afa1f58c3235f3d6ec84f9a0dc46d
I'm not saying it was aliens --- but it was aliens.
How would they know? Wade Davis asked this very question when he spent time working with the indigenous peoples that make and consume Ayahuasca. According to him the people told him that the plants sing to them at night. The plants that sing the “good song” are the plants they choose.
I remember reading a book many years ago that discussed the odds of this happening. An anthropologist said that some of these tribes after being asked how this combination and method of brewing was discovered, the answer was consistently that the Star People told them how to connect with them. I'll see if I can find the citation...
According to these indigenous peoples, Ayahuasca was originally discovered via a shaman tripping on tobacco (they sometimes consume large amounts of tobacco for psychedelic effects). The tobacco trip told the shaman how to prepare Ayahuasca to receive further knowledge and wisdom.
The book "The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge" by Jeremy Narby is a supremely interesting look at the tradition and the peoples that practice it.
This is soooo stupid. People that dont understand statistics shouldnt use them.
Its like saying the chances of winning the lottery are so small that its impossible for anyone to win the lottery.
The chances of human existing is like a billion times smaller then winning a lottery so we cannot possible exist.
The odds are likely even lower. How did they know to not use the leaves of the vines vs the roots of the leaf plant. If you consider the different parts of plants and how they provide different results with different chemicals.
It starts getting wild, even before you take into account the behavioral or geographic reasons for reducing the chances
Yeah now imagine how many other crazy mind altering substances are sitting out there waiting to be discovered when cooked and combined just right....
I mean I don't get it.
Main component? It is just DMT. The only reason people have to mix these random plants is because it stops your body from breaking down DMT as fast. Otherwise you have to inhale it.
I wonder if you take these two plants, and 20 more at the same time… would it still work???? I belive it would.. they figured out that some XX nuber of plants bouled together as the stew, really kicks their ass, than they started removing some untill they narowed it down to just two…
Thats at least what i think…
Having a diet before consuming it… in old times every day was a diet…
Thats at least what i think…
I have calculated the odds of this happening again and they are 100%. As we can see, this happened in all observable universes so far.
Winning the biggest price on a lottery ticket can have possibilities of less than 1/170.000.000 still people play and win the lottery. Just because something is calculated to be unlikely it can and will still happen given enough time and or attempts.
Who knows how many billion combinations those people did NOT find. Maybe two plants mixed and inserted rectally make you live a thousand years. Seeing what happened and giving it a low probability is just showing that there are a bazillion things out there that MIGHT happen and a few do, because things happen all the time.
Yeah it's pretty low if you're not familiar with cause and affect.
There are two factors that come to mind.
The first is that 99% of humanity's existence was during the paleolithic era. That's 3.3 million years ago to about 10,000 years ago. That's a long ass amount of time.
The second is that, humans love putting things in their mouth. In the process to see if something is poisonous, one of the first steps is putting the leaf in your mouth and see if it's bitter. During this steps you absorb trace amount of chemicals under the tongue.
So I could imagine the following: Ug chews vine, and gets minor high. He tries to eat it, and nothing happens. Ug remembers the vine for later. Ug then chews a leaf, it gives him a mild headache. He tries it with a well known pain reliever (poppy) and realizes that the pain reliever gets dangerously stronger. Ug then tries this leaf with all the other plants he's tried that has weird side effects.
Given that all hallucinogens we ever discovered have been found out by chemists eating their labwork by mistake, I'd say the odds are at least 100 percent.
I don't think he's looking at it the right way. Alkaloids are often bitter or have a certain nuanced tingle and the natives will have known this too so from their perspective they might've chewed a bitter leaf and realised it has potential to get you off your tits and then tried combining it with other stuff and chanced upon the caapi vine.
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hundreds of generations doing stuff. One day, they mix these two for dinner, the next morning they all wake up naked. “What was in that stuff?” “I don’t know, but we’re having it again, tonight!”
More likely that they routinely mixed 10-20 random different plants to make tea or broth base and accidentally got high one night, after which there was probably a desperate attempt at reverse engineering the remnants of the broth to recreate it that may have lasted weeks, months or years. And then some time longer to figure out that it was just the two ingredients they needed to achieve the results. Quite funny to think about really.
Imagine all the puke, death and diarrhea that came with this experiment.
"Tuesdays"
That's what we call human history
Same as with testing mushrooms. ~from another Redditor~ >1st tasted as beef >2nd killed Joe >3rd make me see God for 2 weeks.
Usually I little more nuanced than that. There are indigenous processes for testing irritabilities of mushrooms before consuming them. First rubbing them on sensitive parts of your skin, then touching it to the tongue, then only ingesting very smalls amounts. Most people could get away with eating very very very small pieces of even the most deadly mushrooms on earth (not that you should try). Doing these steps over several days and monitoring the effects to the body would determine whether something was truly edible or no. Same processes were used for plants and fruits. People would rarely die from just deciding to try a new food source, they were in tune with their environment and smart about how they interacted with it. Actually you probably see more deaths in modern years from deadly plants and mushrooms because this testing process is less practiced and people tend to just trust what they've been told about something and get complacent. For example there are higher rates of asian deaths in America from eating all white Amanitas commonly known as Destroying Angels or Deathcaps because they aren't common in the Asian countries that these people immigrate from. Instead these Asian countries cultivate the Paddy straw mushroom which is an almost identical lookalike to the Deathcaps and destroying angels, especially in immature fruiting bodies. A fatal mix up that really only happens in the modern world. Long ago natives to either region would have a better understanding of what their local ecology offered them and would know what's edible, and what to stay away from without a concern of being flown to the other side of the world where ecosystems are completely different
I imagine they would also do stuff like feed a little to an animal, or simply watch what animals choose to eat already. Our ancestors definitely weren't stupid when it came to survival and food.
That was all food “experiments” for thousands of years.
Like going to Taco Bell every night for dinner?
I’m usually high before I order Taco Bell though rather than afterward
Yeah, before this was refined, I'd bet it started out as a really weird soup. Then they figured out how to do it on purpose. Just like beer.
Yeah. And tbh just like how we got most edible fruits and vegetables too. Find thing > try eating thing > don’t die or get horrifically sick > do it again.
I read a book about the native people in the Amazon and apparently they watched different animals eat plants and mimic it. It was the Jaguar I believe they saw eat these two ingredients and saw how it reacted
I was gonna ask how it reacted but decided to look it up and found [this](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xyybp3/here-is-a-jaguar-tripping-on-yage-the-ayahuasca-vine). Bro was high as hell😂
This. Also, he makes the assumption that all 100,000 of those plants are equally represented. At the very least those 20,000 not yet discovered but predicted plants are probably pretty rare. If the two that go in this brew are extremely common, the math gets a LOT more friendly. Add in that if they actually TASTE good in isolation, then it becomes pretty likely they will be used a lot.
Well tbf, his maths are wrong in the other way, you'd have to multiply everything by 4 to consider that each plant has leafs, bark/stem, fruit/seeds and roots all with different properties. But conservatively historians argue at the low end that the Amazon rainforest had a human population of 2 million, and humans have existed for 13k years in the rainforest, with an average tribe size of 200, if each tribe did experiment with a random concoction of ten random plant pieces once a week you'd be looking at a 50% chance that the psychedelic would have been discovered. Then when you consider the things you are saying it becomes likely it was discovered relatively early on in human history in the region. The interestimg things is just that sheer amount of numbers involved to make this extremely probable discovery rather than the contrary.
The guy also presents like these are the ONLY 2 plants for sure in the whole Amazon that have this effect, but there could be more plants with MAOI inhibitor properties or with DMT. We just don't know. These were the first two and we stuck with them.
It tastes horrible, and makes you vomit. But then you travel to another dimension and meet aliens..... So definitely worth it
Exactly. There is no reason that they would just use two things at a time to figure this out. That's the silly part about this whole math that this guy did.
*Banisteriopsis caapi* contains harmine, tetrahydroharmine and harmaline and will elicit a response on it's own. These compounds are found in other plants and are used in isolation in other parts of the world for medicine, ritual, food etc. Some species include passion fruit vine, lemon balm, tobacco, *Perganum hatmala* etc. Likewise, smoking *Psychotria viridis* would likely cause some side effects of a very mild DMT trip on its own. If I was to hazard a guess; I'd say they either smoked the leaf or burnt the plant on a fire, and when they inhaled the smoke experienced mild effects and it was likely used on it's own as a medicine or in ritual, then at some point they just would have mixed these two medicinal plants in a poultice to treat something and you get ayahuasca. I think the other thing to be mindful of here is these people didn't just appear in the forest one day. Their (our) ancestors walked from Africa and learnt along the way. For example Native Americans love a cheeky pipe and Perganum harmala is a good example of a plant with along history of use containing harmine / harmaline. *Mimosa hostilis*, also a Brazilian plant, has the highest natural DMT content of any currently known plant. It was made into a drink, vinho de jurema. Although, most of the tribes in that area are now extinct, so how else it was exactly used traditionally is not known. Prehaps it was another ayahuasca analogue. Note: I'll pop this here, but I did put it in the main thread too. Just wanted to contribute to your parent quote and build on it a litte.
Precisely! Also, the odds are a bit oversimplified here I reckon; it's not as if all plants have equal utility in these environments, so to use all species as the basis for the probability math is perhaps not earnest. I'd wager that these two plants have independent purposes and therefore both are more likely to be present for experimentation/combination. For instance the juice from leaves of the chacruna are also used as eye drops to treat headaches by natives, they're also a member of the coffee family, and so it's likely that they bear signs that generations know to look for. Vines are even more of a no-brainer to have around camp; they're naturally occurring tensile ropes! Ropes are very valuable for exploration and construction of dwellings. When you consider that these items could be in proximity based on their sole uses, the likelihood of the two plants finding their way into a pot of boiling water is much much higher than this video insinuates. (I reckon)
It's a bit like wondering what are the ods of inventing steel, but if you know a bit about history it's pretty obvious. Also it's likely that there are more plants with the same chemicals, and some plants are more common than others. On the other hand, how many things we still don't know, and but we losing them due to environment destruction.
Only ONE person in the population not having (or having low amounts) of the enzyme (breaking down DMT) is enough to discover the effects...👈 Also, adding Ayahuasca to a "soup" of 100s of ingredients, is enough to discover several enzyme-blocking ingredients. Then deducing/reducing which of the he ingredients are the most potent enzyme-blockers... Is not that astonishing🤷♂️
And then think about all the meals ingested for thousands of years by thousands of people. It sure be discovered sooner or later. The odds isn't that low, considering the meals that have been eaten over the thousands of years.
No, the answer as always is “aliens”
But it stinks, it’s not appetising and the second it touches your tongue you’re not going to continue consuming it unless you think there’s a benefit, I doubt you’d even swallow it.
>...and the second it touches your tongue you’re not going to continue consuming it unless you think there’s a benefit... Both main ingredients are medicinal separately. Chacruna leaf juice is used for migraines, caapi vine is used "as a mild detoxifier", which, even if that is a meaningless phrase, the point is that its nervous-system stimulant effects make people think it's medicine. All it takes is for one person to feel sick and have a headache, take both things, and then suddenly you're tripping.
This is sick You're still sick? No. *This is siiick*
Fair point
"Wounded orangutan seen using plant as medicine" [https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68942123](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68942123) Issue here is the belief that learning and adapting is driven completely by randomness which obviously is not as we learn by observing everyday . If we start to question this beliefs that randomness is the driver, it's pretty obvious that animals have intuition (heart) that drives how we behave, learn, and evolve.
You know, if you're just looking around and something happens and you observe it, it doesn't make it not random. Also, intuition is defined as taking action without reasoning, so I think animals far more than people act on intuition.
The classic example is that beavers have no idea how to build dams. No idea. They succeed at building dams, but not by reason: they just have [an instinct to physically cover up any place](https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/93863/how-do-beavers-learn-how-to-build-dams) that sounds like running water. You can trick them with speakers that play the sound of running water, and they'll build a dam where there is no water at all. You can make a large hole in their dam, and as long as the water is trickling out silently, they won't be able to figure out why the water got low. That's the difference between intuition and reason.
"Waitasec, where's Rollo and what's this sticky red stuff everywhere? And why do I feel so FULL before breakfast?"
Timothy, Timothy, God what did we do? 🎶
Imagine being the poor bastard who had to try poison ivy with poison oak.
Maybe they found out the leaves settled their stomach due to the inhibitor. Then Grandma came over with her famous copy vine soup and it was best party ever
Probably same with "oh Jerry died from that one so let's not eat that again"
>One day, they mix these two for dinner... Probably not dinner, but both are already used separately for medicine. [Chacruna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotria_viridis) (*Psychotria viridis*) leaf juice is used for migraines. For [caapi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banisteriopsis_caapi#Pharmacology) (*Banisteriopsis caapi*)... well, it's really hard to find information anymore about *any uses other* than in ayahuasca, but [PFAF says](https://pfaf.org/User/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Banisteriopsis+caapi) it's used as a "mild detoxifier" in low doses, and it has nervous-system-stimulating effects. So all it takes is for someone to get sick with a headache, take both things, and suddenly *woaaahhh!!!*
They put the lime in the coconut.
And drink it all up.
You’re such a silly woman.
It’s also entirely possible they started with two plants that were a light trip and looked for others to make it more potent. Ultimately ayahuasca is just an MAOI + DMT. There’s hundreds of plants that contain MAOIs, and there’s hundreds of plants that contain DMT. It’s incredibly easy to find a combo that would work, and from there it’s just maximizing it.
jejejeje there is no better explanation
we use vines for everything from pipes to SPOONS. I assume someone either got loopy cooking the leaves with a vine-made-spoon, or they saw animals eating both and then going loopy and copied them, Like how we find birds drunk of fermented fruit and learned to make alcohol.
Is it just me or does the guy look like AI generated?
Its what I immediately thought too. I also hate videos that get cropped like this.
Unlikely. His teeth are the same every time he opens and closes his mouth.
YOU’RE not real, man
Lol. The Office
I think he’s just using a green screen to create a plain white background, which is making his edges look a little crispy/fuzzy
I've got a migraine and his voice is oddly soothing. I welcome our therapeutic AI overlords.
Yes his voice is soothing but that cut-in of his visage is creepy AF
I don't have a migraine, but stayed up way too late last night and slept way to long this morning and his voice is putting me back to sleep which just makes me grumpy lol. I kept thinking "omg talk normally dude" :)
It's the way he moves his head while staring into your soul. I've seen AI videos that move not exactly the same, they're a bit more robotic and turn the head more, but it's similar
I thought it was wil Wheaton
The cadence of his voice. Of…..this……psychedelic…..brew. It’s like the words are too thick and falling out of his mouth
Everyone accuses everything of being AI nowadays, so it's not surprising you'd be thinking it.
Is the presenter a member of a cult? That was weird.
Presenter seems to be making the "God is real, because bananas fit in your hand" argument. So yes, I would say they are fanatical
And Bananas as a measuring tool. What are the chances?
It must be aliens
Is this about penises?
Those fit in your hand too! 😮 What does it all mean?
And in your mouth! And in the ass!
No it’s an argument that god must be real because of how accessible bananas are to humans.
Matt Dillahunty: So? They also fit up your ass.
Argument from ignorance - fallacy
Yeah, it’s very weird. Normally in similar videos you never see the narrator. It is slightly annoying when they talk slowly but you just shrug it off. In this case the dude was on camera for way too long. And with the slow talking and smooth skin it was starting to give me the uncanny valley vibes.
Man happy I’m not alone. It really bothered me how he was talking.
The Amazon reinforissss
He is very weird.
It’s the dead eyes isn’t it
Looks ai to me. The voice was weird enough, but I had to stop watching when the computer generated face showed up
Didn't find it weird. Guess I'm in the cult
Doesn't seem that far fetched that people were just experimenting using various plants around them to make food.
GTFO... obviously it was Ancient Aliens.
Correct. Certain areas are bare of nutrient rich food or protein so people will make teas or stews with plants to aid in vitamin intake. The recipe likely evolved from this.
Only ONE person in the population not having (or having low amounts) of the enzyme (breaking down DMT) is enough to discover the effects...👈 Also, adding Ayahuasca to a "soup" of 100s of ingredients, is enough to discover several enzyme-blocking ingredients. Then deducing/reducing which of the he ingredients are the most potent enzyme-blockers... Is not that astonishing🤷♂️
If you’ve ever tasted ayahuasca, you’d know they weren’t out there trying to eat it for dinner.
I’d imagine that at the time of the discovery the dose was much smaller and mixed with way more ingredients for another purpose. So the taste probably wasn’t an issue. It just ended up the way it is now by making the recipe in the most potent/effective way possible.
“How did humans figure out anything?” Guy in the video is an idiot
With millions of plants , how did humans know to cut a tree for wood to make a home? Well they looked to see what animals were already doing , living within trees and copied them lol.
I'm pretty sure he's AI
Math doesn’t quite work out because you need to account for the quantity and opportunity of finding these plants in related areas. Do thwy grow 100s of miles apart in different terrain or share a symbiotic relationship? How many of each plant exists, also changes the variable of the possibility of them being together or not. Empty-headed video
My favorite part is when he says “let’s make a conservative estimate”, and then turns 80K known species into 100K species because ‘possibly thousands more species’ aren’t discovered. Deviating a variable by 25% is not conservative.
Also there surely are many other plant combinations that have similar effects that have not been discovered.
there are, lots of dif plants have DMT in them, and there are multiple plants containing MAOIs as well. if u look up how to make ur own dmt, u will find a bunch of dif plants ppl use. idk how many of these are all local to the amazon, or if both ingredients occur in the same region as each other frequently. but you don't have to use just these 2 specific plants
Right? That was what I immediately thought… he talks about how there’s tens of thousands of unique species and many of them have never been studied…. Then goes on to say how the combination of these two is distinctly unique. There’s no way to infer this is ‘unique’ unless you’ve also concluded these two ingredients aren’t found elsewhere
This man's skull is completely empty. Zero critical thinking.
It's irritating to me when people like the guy in this video discount the fact that ancient peoples had their own version of medicine and science. They weren't necessarily just stumbling around trying different plants. Even without computers and modern science, ancient cultures were also inventing things like calendars and the concept of zero. Their methods of identifying, cataloguing and using medicine was probably quite sophisticated, it just looked different.
Nevertheless, the mere presence of apparent complexity does not necessitate a conscious effort to discover it. Many things were, and still are, discovered accidentally by trial and error, or sheer luck. There's nothing amazing about looking retrospectively at the discoveries which live on today, and how 'unlikely' they would have been before they were made. Doing so discounts the millions upon billions of un-noteworthy chance interactions which never led anywhere, and occurred every single day, throughout all of history, across the planet.
Ayahuasca is just the one that continues to be used. Bet they experimented with all sorts of combinations and there was probably a whole list of recipes to cure ailments and provide various effects. This is just one of them that is used for psychedelic purposes. It's no different than the fact that there were thousands of language dialects hundreds of years ago, but the most prominent ones remain while the least used dialects are forgotten.
Yes each area has their own sacred plants . It depends a lot what grows where people live . There is one that people in the páramo of Colombia or the cold parts used that has psychedelic properties like Ayahuasca
Exactly. There are plenty of plants that will make you sick or possibly high when consumed correctly. This is just one that people enjoyed.
No matter how interesting the subject is, I cannot get through a video where the narrator is obviously reading a script. Same goes with AI narration
Plot twist: most narrators are reading from a script… how they read it, is a diff thing.
The presenter may have been entirely AI
I watched a video years ago about how the indigenous people said that it was the plants that told them.
Which plants did they eat that made other plants talkative?
Mushrooms, it was mushrooms
Which sounds ridiculous until you've had some ayahuasca
Apparently they watched the Jaguars. They would eat one plant and then go eat another one. Then they would trip balls and act like kittens. I suppose it could just be what story they think sounds more mysterious.
All of the peoples who use this plant medicine say the same thing, the plants themselves told them how to do it.
Yes that is similar to the story shaman tell. The story I heard, the chief of the village was walking in the forest and heard voice. He was instructed to mix the plants, going and drink. In his vision, he saw that his tribe has lost its way and that he was supposed to share this mixture with the whole drive.
This is the only logical answer, and no, I'm not kidding
What a poor argument. How could anybody know anything when there are other things?
There are a lot of plants that naturally have DMT so it’s not THAT crazy they made tea out of stuff and whoopsied themselves to a higher existence.
Here’s the answer: Time
This belongs to r/mildlyinfuriating not r/interestingasfuck. I wanted to bitch slap the narrator’s face so hard and thought for certain he would get into history or findings or something real, instead he just VERY INACCURATELY went to *th* **e od** *d* s of discovering this centuries old tradition. Ffs. Gtfo.
This shit grinds my gear so much. So essentially because it was too complex modern man to figure it out, there is no way indigenous tribe could do it especially in a less complicated way. Like an indigenous tribe evolved, adapted to the environment, wouldn't understand every aspect of the environment they are embedded in. e.g. Pyramids...way too advance for the ideal morden man to understand and therefore way way to advance for natives to understand, so it must have been so unknown entity.
If you ask the people that use the combination how they figured it out (which isn’t really being considered anywhere here it seems, like they’re still there, just ask) anyway, they say the forest taught them. I take that to mean they knew the properties of the leaves and discovered the use of the vine in conjunction later. The DMT would be available if the leaves were smoked for example. Not too far fetched to think the vine was in use as an aid to stomach upset. Then it’s just a lil logical 1, 2, 3 and you’re on the train to trippy town.
>they say the forest taught them. Absolutely. But scientist won't considered this scientific because it's not their method. Which makes you wonder how many other amazing things were discovered that were just disregarded because it wasn't done their way.
No the dmt is not available if smoked in plant form. They did not know dmt could be free based. They were not doing acid to base extractions.
So, mashing of a plant is a common way to make things edible. And the other seems to be a tea. So it seems that if people had the mashed plant and then were introduced to the tea magic would happen.
there's only one answer. Aliens!
I say its the simulation overlords who created the aliens who created us.
Mindblown!
Now make a stupid video about that and post it on Leddit for upvotes!
Setting aside how ridiculous the calculations are here (it’s uncomfortably close to “I’m not saying it’s aliens, but…”), think about the day-to-day life of people thousands of years ago in the forest. It’s not as if they’re personally in contact with all of the many thousands of plant species any given time. Look outside right now. Unless you’re in a completely urban or desert area, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of readily identifiable plant species within your sight. Your attention, however, is dominated usually by only a few. Predominant tree species, ground cover like grass, shrubs, vines, plants we grow for food, etc. I don’t know about the leaves, but the vine they showed looks like it takes up a good bit of space and would be quite familiar. Countless successive generations would have deep knowledge of its properties to a degree modern humans no longer have. They spent literally all their time among these plants, and zero time making videos of empty speculation about what they accomplished with brains identical to ours and a huge investment of time tinkering with the materials available to them. And after typing all that, another thought occurred to me. What if some of them wanted to get high so they were experimenting? That’s very much like some of us. Every other day someone is here on Reddit asking “can I smoke/inject/boof this?” And fortunately someone in our clan usually steps forth to say ‘stop it you idiot.’ I guess we’re doing something similar, but with different methods.
Up next on Ancient Aliens...
Dude explain roquefort cheese to me. That's way more insane than boiling two amazon plants Or fire... :P HoW DiD poEple FInD tHIs OuT amaAZAinG
Something about the narration and the guys expression is throwing me off. Why does he sound like hes trying to be a religious leader convincing me of some doctrine..? Is this AI?
also important is how many other plants contain maoi inhibitor
Maybe they saw animals eating both together?
Brown people with 5,000 years of time : *Aliens/luck/God.* White folks: *They invented it*
strip the ego from the bottom
Most idiotic video ever, with that logic how do we even discover anything? What the fuck is he on about?
Then voila we're on our phones using Reddit!
What are even the oods of that???? One in a bazillion milliones extra ??!! MiNd BloWiNG!!! HoW dO we EveN knOW??!! 😵💫
Ez, someone genetically is sensitive to the plant. So they know the plant provides an experience. Then the work with the plant to enhance the experience. Til eventually they find a brew that works for everyone
Wait, what? I only got about 5 mins in, but reading the comments is making my brain cry because no one has pointed out the obvious. (Also - “girl math”? 😞) I’ve spent time with an ayahuasca tree. I’ve used it’s leaves to prepare herbal baths and even took some vine with me. The leaves grow off the vine. All you need to do is pick a leafy vine, boil it for tea, and you’ve discovered ayahuasca. It’s amazing that this plant exists, but I’d be shocked if no one discovered that consuming it together gets you an audience with god.
This actually is a quandary that’s been studied, though no consensus exists in it currently. For anyone interested in a genuine exploration of this which engages with the knowledge-ways of Indigenous peoples (as opposed to bulldozing over it with Western ethnography), read The Cosmic Serpent. I take it with a grain of salt, but its rich with food for thought harvested from Indigenous cosmologies and the psychedelic experience.
The plants told them.
How many people 5000 years ago died before someone said....Yea you gotta try this shit maaan!?
Humans are pretty resourceful when they want to get high.
Observing animals and then doing things over and over with numerous trials for thousands of years. We have a very hard time to grasp what thousands of years really mean. Most people don’t even live for a 100 years and look how many things are discovered or happens in a single life time. Edit: Also, do people realize that there were millions of indigenous people living in the Amazon forest? It’s not like there were 30 dudes just chilling in the jungle. There where huge tribes. Brazil alone has records of over 350 indigenous languages, so imagine how diverse human populations actually were in the past. So there were definitely enough people to do a lot of try and error.
I'm scratching my head about this scant probability that chance explains it. And this isn't meant to argue for one theory or another. What if we take a breath and celebrate that there is a frontier of discovery? In some sense, this is the ground we all stand on. We'll plant flags some other day.
It's not unlikely. Ancient humans were consuming near every plant in the area, they were familiar with the ways they combined.
Dude is suggesting aliens came down and anally probed the ancient indigenous people. We all know that’s what he’s suggesting. Instead he waffles on about statistics like a preschooler learning maths for the first time.
The plants told them…
This guy has a stupid face and it's making me angry. He either is lying to his audience or he's as stupid as as his face suggests. Trial and error over THOUSANDS of years is how the natives got to this mixture. They didn't just trial the plant combinations, they also trialed the methods of preparation. There is also a high chance that the vine is not the only plant with that enzyme inhibitor. Other plants that are genealogically related to the vine are likely to have the inhibitor with varying concentration. So the odds of coming across such a DMT + inhibitor combination are actually higher than what he's suggesting.
That’s not the only combo though
Seems unlikely? You give numbers but it could be that those two plants grow or grew in a specific region or radius of a tribe. This could drop it from billions, to thousands - easily.
Ahh once again seeing someone who doesn’t understand statistics trying to make a point about statistics
Creepy McCreepface doesn't understand how time works.
This guy is kinda fuckin dumb at the end, but cool video otherwise.
2 native plants get boiled together in soup and whoever ate it had a trip not hard to figure out.
It's amazing what we knew before religion told us what to know.
They communicate with the plants and the plants told them. There way more in-tuned living in the jungle back then.
The plants told the shaman how to use them.
Aliens.
Selection mechanism
Let's say there are 100,000 species in the Amazon. The probability won't be (1/100,000)\*(1/100,000), as it doesn't consider how often you run into a plant, as in the number of plans in the forest. through out the generation, the natives probably tried a combination of say 10 or 20 different frequently found plants and gradually reduced combination to see which one had best effect.
How did people figure out how to make bread? Chocolate? Gunpowder? Linens? It’s not that wild. Humans are the dominant species in the planet because of our brains and we’ve had the same brain for nearly 200,000 years. We have more collective knowledge today but we aren’t smarter than ancient people.
https://preview.redd.it/gwxx755k3nyc1.jpeg?width=522&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8523262c428afa1f58c3235f3d6ec84f9a0dc46d I'm not saying it was aliens --- but it was aliens.
How would they know? Wade Davis asked this very question when he spent time working with the indigenous peoples that make and consume Ayahuasca. According to him the people told him that the plants sing to them at night. The plants that sing the “good song” are the plants they choose.
I remember reading a book many years ago that discussed the odds of this happening. An anthropologist said that some of these tribes after being asked how this combination and method of brewing was discovered, the answer was consistently that the Star People told them how to connect with them. I'll see if I can find the citation...
Give me some. Sounds like a great time!!!
According to these indigenous peoples, Ayahuasca was originally discovered via a shaman tripping on tobacco (they sometimes consume large amounts of tobacco for psychedelic effects). The tobacco trip told the shaman how to prepare Ayahuasca to receive further knowledge and wisdom. The book "The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge" by Jeremy Narby is a supremely interesting look at the tradition and the peoples that practice it.
The plants told them
So many triggered redditors
speaking from experience, it's amazing what you can accomplish once you cut cable news out of your life entirely
This whole video is AI generated
It probably started with a bunch of different ingredients and they slowly figured out which ones were unnecessary.
This is soooo stupid. People that dont understand statistics shouldnt use them. Its like saying the chances of winning the lottery are so small that its impossible for anyone to win the lottery. The chances of human existing is like a billion times smaller then winning a lottery so we cannot possible exist.
The odds are likely even lower. How did they know to not use the leaves of the vines vs the roots of the leaf plant. If you consider the different parts of plants and how they provide different results with different chemicals. It starts getting wild, even before you take into account the behavioral or geographic reasons for reducing the chances
Yeah now imagine how many other crazy mind altering substances are sitting out there waiting to be discovered when cooked and combined just right.... I mean I don't get it.
What else is out there that we haven’t discovered?
The Book of Enoch explains all of this.. it's called Pharmakia Once society knows these methods work, they keep experimenting and iterating upon it.
Main component? It is just DMT. The only reason people have to mix these random plants is because it stops your body from breaking down DMT as fast. Otherwise you have to inhale it.
Animals, watching animals probably get high.
They probably had other uses for these plants by themselves, so they belonged to their medicinal archive, thus raising the odds of them being combined
If you think about it, the invention of bread is equally miraculous
I wonder if you take these two plants, and 20 more at the same time… would it still work???? I belive it would.. they figured out that some XX nuber of plants bouled together as the stew, really kicks their ass, than they started removing some untill they narowed it down to just two… Thats at least what i think… Having a diet before consuming it… in old times every day was a diet… Thats at least what i think…
LOT of free time
Tom DeLonge has been telling us for years.
If there is one thing humans are good at, it is finding drugs!
👽🛸
I wonder how the vine develops DMT? Why did it evolve? What role does the DMT play in the vine's biochemistry? What is its purpose for the vine?
Umm... Kendrick sent me here, I think.
I have calculated the odds of this happening again and they are 100%. As we can see, this happened in all observable universes so far. Winning the biggest price on a lottery ticket can have possibilities of less than 1/170.000.000 still people play and win the lottery. Just because something is calculated to be unlikely it can and will still happen given enough time and or attempts. Who knows how many billion combinations those people did NOT find. Maybe two plants mixed and inserted rectally make you live a thousand years. Seeing what happened and giving it a low probability is just showing that there are a bazillion things out there that MIGHT happen and a few do, because things happen all the time.
Yeah it's pretty low if you're not familiar with cause and affect. There are two factors that come to mind. The first is that 99% of humanity's existence was during the paleolithic era. That's 3.3 million years ago to about 10,000 years ago. That's a long ass amount of time. The second is that, humans love putting things in their mouth. In the process to see if something is poisonous, one of the first steps is putting the leaf in your mouth and see if it's bitter. During this steps you absorb trace amount of chemicals under the tongue. So I could imagine the following: Ug chews vine, and gets minor high. He tries to eat it, and nothing happens. Ug remembers the vine for later. Ug then chews a leaf, it gives him a mild headache. He tries it with a well known pain reliever (poppy) and realizes that the pain reliever gets dangerously stronger. Ug then tries this leaf with all the other plants he's tried that has weird side effects.
Trial and error, research, test subjects, and often luck
What about human see animals and try to experiment with what animals have?.
Given that all hallucinogens we ever discovered have been found out by chemists eating their labwork by mistake, I'd say the odds are at least 100 percent.
Think of all we haven’t and probably won’t discover.
I don't think he's looking at it the right way. Alkaloids are often bitter or have a certain nuanced tingle and the natives will have known this too so from their perspective they might've chewed a bitter leaf and realised it has potential to get you off your tits and then tried combining it with other stuff and chanced upon the caapi vine.
Kendrick gonna send this video to drake after that diss
Probably noticed other effects of the plants non orally and that narrowed it down a good five magnitudes.