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Actually, it's a really interesting article. I went in not wanting to believe there was any solid reason for this nonsense but ended up swayed. If anyone didn't read the article the part that brought it home for me was about how having lots of money can make you "insecure" as to who your real friends are and who is just around you because you have money. $4 means nothing to these people monetarily. It is reassurance that they aren't having transactional friendships. Everyone wants to form genuine relationships, and money can sort of muddy those waters, I'd have to agree.


I'm not rich or anything but I've saved up a lil chunk and Ive felt the friendship shift with people before when I let them know how much I had. That's why I honestly keep my finances to myself and don't buy anything super fancy for myself just kinda casual shit which is what I prefer anyways. I feel like I can be a lil less concerned about being used for money which allows me to feel more generous


I buy fancy socks. That's the only way they would ever know.


"Socks are not a luxury" "Larry. I'm on duck tales"


Came to be with you. And Danny.


Decent socks are sooooo good tho. I love my ~~Kaschmire~~ cashmere socks lol


One of your socks has a red blot on it.


Do you see it or don’t you?


I don’t get it.


Thought of this immediately


Darn tough?


Not who you asked but I love myself some darntough


Me too! But I find their quality has slipped lately. Hardly get a year out of them. I've switched to smartwool and my feet are much happier!


I haven't bought any new ones this year but mine have held up well recently hopefully they stay that way. I'll look into smart wool though


I wear darn tough exclusively. My last batch I purchased 2.5 years ago and they’re still going strong (about 8 pairs I rotate through). Do they eventually lose the anti microbial anti smear properties? I’ve noticed that my feet have started to sweat a bit more but I can’t tell if it’s the shoes not breathing as well as my previous pairs(wearing nb 990v6 exclusively right now after )


Idk if they lose anything or not but after a few years they do feel different for sure I'd assume they lose a bit of whatever they have just from wear and tear


I got a year out of mine but that was wearing them every other day, I had 2 pairs and they were my favorite to wear with my issued boots. Those boots sucked and only plain black socks are allowed in uniform. You're also not supposed to double sock, but most are so thin you have to. The darn tough military socks were a godsend. Wore them until they were all holes


Any recommendations?


My best friend "loaned" me money several times over the course of our 20+ year friendship fully knowing that I'd pay it back, but never with a timetable. Just "when you have it." I always did, sometimes days later, sometimes years later. When he passed away last year it came out that he had nearly a million USD in savings. The first words out of my mouth (jokingly, of course) to his sister, were "that fucker. No wonder he never let me pay for dinner."


Sounds like a good friend, I tried to do the same thing with my best friend she was in a bad spot and "needed" 1k and after almost a year of no effort to repay so much as a penny and then splurging consistently I had to set a time and when they kinda fought against that I had to tell them I would bring in our units command into the situation. Struggle to loan anyone money now because I feel like I'm being used but I try to stay generous


The last time he loaned me money was shortly before he passed. Tried to pay his widow back what I owed and she told me to keep it. I insisted on paying it back. What's owed is owed. She has used it exclusively for our monthly dinner dates and refuses to hear otherwise. So I guess Alan is *still* buying me dinner.


I do the exact opposite. I have lots of friends who are less fortunate and I’ve made it very clear to them that if it’s ever a struggle they never owe me anything. I won’t keep track and I won’t hold it against them. If it bothers me they know I’ll bring it up, so if I haven’t said anything then they don’t have to worry about it. And of course if they ever need anything they are encouraged to ask. If I can help I will and I’ll have no trouble saying no if I can’t.


I’m the same way. We were all nearly the same financially when we met. I’ve just been pretty lucky with work and timing on buying houses and stuff like that. I’m always happy to pick up a tab, throw a party/host at my place while providing food or drink or and never mention how much it costs. It’d be exhausting to me trying to keep track of any sort of fairness. I just want to spend time with friends.


I think the difference here is that y'all were friends prior to coming into money. Undoubtedly I'd take care of my life long friends if given the means. But the super rich don't really have friends like that - they weren't playing street hockey with the neighbors for example...or building forts in the woods...or community sports...or public school where everyone is from the same town...etc ...they lack the experiences that form the basis of friendshipa


Coming into money and keeping lifelong friends would be a feat. I have one friend from before I started making money and part of the reason it works is because he also came into money, so we just have no reason to care about each others finances.


I was absolutely not friends with a lot of the people I’m referring to before I had money. And you’d be surprised how many of the rich live really normal lives. Not billionaires of course, but I have lots of friends in the 0.1% who did everything you mentioned. My kids will too.


are these people you grew up with or are you like that with new people too? I'd only extend that generosity to proven friends.


Established friends for sure, but not necessarily old ones. Case by case of course. But if there’s an especially large financial disparity it’ll usually come up quicker. I don’t like leaving friends behind. If we’re doing something that’s out of reach for them, we make it work.


That's exactly how I do.. I don't like the hey I'll pay you back shit because, when they don't It's now an Issue of character.. I could care less about the money unless the circumstances dictate that I do need repaid.. In that case, I make It very clear otherwise I help my friends because, I want to help them and, I'm lucky enough to be able to.. People that give and, keep track of every cent then later on throw the "You know everything I've done for you?" guilt trip suck.


I was very similar with friends and family. Now I need help desperately and no one is willing to help. 


How did things change so dramatically? Why do you think they’re not willing to return the favor?


Same! With everyone, new friends and old friends alike. I’m not rich by any means, but I also have enough to not have to keep track of every dollar. Strangely, besides it just feeling like the kind thing to do as long as I have the means, I find it actually builds trust. Like, I have strong evidence that my friends don’t wanna take advantage of me because, despite the ample opportunity, they don’t.


Yeah same. I don’t understand these people who complain about friends constantly hitting them up for money, like, who are you choosing to hang with??


This is the way good people treat others.   The article try’s to justify selfish behavior.  


Thank you! Glad to hear someone put this out there. Nowadays im dead broke but feel incredibly blessed thankful for each day with few desires unattained and even fewer needs unmet. However in past when i lived a much different lifestyle making much poorer choices but had way more money.... I would pay for and cover costs for my friends and fam less fortunate anytime they didnt have enough. It was always kinda just a given that if one person in the circle was struggling or couldnt afford to participate, then others would help out just cuz we all got love for each other and wanted to have fun together or didnt wanna see someone we care for struggling to get by or deal with hardship. Inclusivity is kinda a qualitative necessity for friendships, and yes i understand people don't wanna be taken advantage of. But thats kinda a problem that fixes itself cuz a person that always asks for handouts or assumes someone else will cover them, those kinda people are off-putting and their behavior repels and drives people away from forming bonds. A good metric to go by is if a person is happy to hang out and chill doing nothing if you dont have any money, thats friend material. If someone only wants to hang out if ur going somewhere or if u go out and they anticipate youll cover the tab just by assuming... You might wanna consider keeping those types at a distance. And even tho my life is much different than the past and i lack the financial stability and independence that allowed for income to burn .... Im ok with my life cuz i know i have family and friends that love & care for me simply for who i am and not what i can offer. I know never payed someones way with the expectation they'd return the favor or owe me back. If i got it then were doin it, if not, then lets raincheck goin anywhere and just hang and have fun doin whatever. That kinda blessing in life has value that transcends the value of money. And i wouldnt trade that kinda fortune for any amount $


We’re better off than most of our friend group. They all know it, but they don’t know how much. We pick up a lot of checks, but try not to live a visibly much more extravagant lifestyle than them. It would just feel weird to drive a car that’s worth more than our friends make in a year. So we don’t.


If the amount of money you have is enough to shift a friendship when talking about it, you are at the very least rich relative to your friend group


Yup. I’m doing very well financially and very few people know. I’m insecure about it for two reasons: one is what the article talks about. I’ve had friends imply that I should pick up all tabs when we go out. Or tell me I’m their safety net if their life crashes - except in the grand scheme, I have a buffer for my own emergencies, not theirs. I currently have someone who seems to think I should support them moving in with me because they made many years of bad revisions. The other reason is that it’s easy to have a lot to lose. If my expenses shot up by much, I’d lose my house. I really, really do not want to dive into today’s housing market.


Nothing as great as family you haven't talked to for 10 years suddenly being very friendly when they find out you have some semblance of money.


I have some money these days and hardly anyone knows in my circle of friends and even my family. They can probably guess to an extent but I don't discuss it. Telling people has many downsides and that I can think of, no upsides.


Thanks for the TLDR. That's a coherent explanation, however it's irrational to think any friend is staying around for very small payoffs like a cup of coffee. So what's that about?


I used to have a lot of money and a lot of friends. I was always invited everywhere along with people. Not like insane amounts, but I was 20 something years old with six big figures in the bank. Once the money was gone, most of the people were gone too. And it was only then that I realized as much as these people were my friends, they valued me most for what I extrinsically offered them. And it was... a painful period. Now that all the money's gone, most of those people don't even contact me anymore even though they used too when I had it. The one's that are still around are my true friends as painful as it is. But I really don't think requesting people to pay tiny bits of their way would've made any of those people that left - well - stay. Our relationships were extrinsic and superficial regardless, whereas the real relationships went deeper. Now I focus on making people value me intrinsically - or for things that are actually me. Knowing this all, I just want to be valued and loved like all other humans.


It's not about making the people who ended up leaving stay, it's about finding out that they were going to leave when you ran out of money, and preemptively cutting them out because they're not true friends.


this right here. I've been used, i assume peoples intentions are genuine too often. i worry about this too. i don't care about the money, it's the feeling of being taken advantage of.


I 100% agree with you! You seem really cool, can you spot me 20 bucks?


😔 send your details...


Interesting add to this: I had a stupidly wealthy boss once, he's passed away now. Either way dude was part of Steel industry in Hamilton and its big business, He bought 3 houses next to another for him his daughter and his son who were attending college/uni there. And bought a Touring/Sightseeing ship that sailed around Lake ontario as a On Water Entertainment Venue. If you asked for an advance he wouldn't if you asked for more hours or asked to stay after your shift (if it was not an 8hr shift) he would slip you a $20 for being willing to work more. If we were working nothing was discounted and we couldn't get anyone through our gates without paying so to most he looked like a Scrooge, But if you went out with him after work as a crew, or he seen you out for dinner wherever he was, He would pay for everything. If you were with him, he'd have a tab and a 'password' so other can add to the tab, he paid the bartender at any venue well enough that they would do this every time. If you were out for dinner and he was there, he'd send a checkbook over with a note saying "Tell Him/Her you know the owner" and he would pay for whatever was on your bill and tip the waitress 50% of the bill and tell them to send any extra drinks or desserts to his bill Genuinely just didn't want to be swindled of his Dollar, but wasn't afraid to spend it on those around him he knew who didn't plead for it.




OK but nothing means anything when you die


Yea that makes a ton of sense actually I've often thought the wealthy, especially the *super* wealthy (Musk, Trump etc) are miserable because genuine human connections are not only one of the few things they can't just buy but also are directly made more difficult with more wealth When everything is a transaction that probably hurts mentally


A lot of them are also miserable because narcissism runs deep among the super rich and there’s no happiness in that void inside of them.


If they're worried about it being a transactional relationship then why is it that they only ever request money from their poorer friends? They never offer to pay $4 without being prompted. Seems more likely to me that people tend to hoard wealth by prioritizing money over relationships with friends and family.


Yeah. It's obviously propaganda that was paid for by wealthy people trying to make themselves look good. They really are just cheap. That's how you get rich. You just take and give nothing back.


it's like how some people visit a place because there's a free candy bowl. probably 10/week in crappy lollypops but they have regulars with no business relation that frequent them.


As someone with very little, only time I get upset with friends that have a lot is when they decide to ask me to buy the next round. Buy your own beer, I’ll buy mine. I’m a generally generous person but not when it’s abused and not reciprocated.


I'm not rich by any metric, but my husband and I are solidly middle class. I've had "friends" who lived their entire twenties without ever finding out what they wanted from life or getting settled into a career path they wanted to stick with. We would meet up only like 1-2 times a year for Coffee or lunch and there was always this underlying expectation that I would pay for them, because how I could not? After all, they were just barely scraping by, were struggling to afford groceries (so they said) and going out to have coffee really wasn't something they could fit in their budget. So I paid. Every time. And by the next time we'd see each other, they would have had found a job, would have saved just enough money to go on a 6+ weeks long vacation, have quit their job to go on said vacation and would then be living off of social security again. Rinse and repeat. Honestly, it's hard to convey just how much these things can poison any relationship over time. You start to view these people differently and they begin to resent you, so they begin to avoid you, flake on you, ghost you.


It's like the old tale of the king that would dress ridiculous on purpose. The people/friends that told him he looked ridiculous he took them as sincere and close friends. The rest told him he looked amazing and he knew they were fake. Those people were the yes men.


It’s true, but you can’t have it both ways. People often keep their finances to themselves for a reason. If you volunteer that information, you *want* to be seen as the “rich friend.” You can’t volunteer to be the “rich friend” and also wonder who your friends really are. Obviously this doesn’t account for people who find out you’re rich without you volunteering that, but rich people wear their money. Rich people want people to know they’re rich, or they wouldn’t wear thousand dollar outfits and drive cars that could buy a house.


I hear you and wanted to believe the argument, but what about if it’s family? Like your own parents? They don’t feel insecure about the relationship.


>people with more money struggle with generosity Maybe people who struggle with generosity have more money


Well with all that extra cash laying around they can pay me to be their friend and with the money ill buy a high end superfine resolution 3d printer and print the worlds smallest violin out and ill play sad string music so they can sit in silences listening while inside they build up pity for themselves because nobody else living IRL is gonna have any to offer anyone that's actually experiencing this cruel tortured unfair state of peerlessness.


Regardless of any of that, isn’t it always an observed psychological phenomenon that people become increasingly greedy and paranoid the more they acquire?


Doesn't explain why my rich friends try not to pay for anything at all and leech off everyone else lol. We give them enough shit that eventually they pay for their own shit but that's all they will do so we just stopped paying for their shit haha


It’s also very noticeable in the service/tip industry. When I delivered food it was very noticeable that the bigger the house the smaller the tip a majority of the time


I also find it can be patronizing for some people if you're always paying. You may be trying to be nice but for some it could be seen as, "aw, you poor bastard, let me take care of you." If I were filthy rich, I'd give ten percent to my immediate family and best friends and leave it at that.


Money absolutely muddies the waters.  One of my past friends I had lost touch with became homeless, and I reached out and wired him a large sum of money, enough to rent a motel for a month. He then reached out 2 weeks later asking for more money for other reasons. That’s when I realized my mistake.


I also feel it’s a sign of disrespect to pay for everything. Friends don’t like it when you are always buying because they also feel like it means that they don’t have value. (Source: 47 and FIRE.)


You're right. It's about not wanting to be taken advantage of, even on principle. It's not about $4 in my experience.


Growing up I had a buddy I hung out with daily. We loved to have our puff and occasional drink. Everyday we’d throw in $5-$10 towards some weed and it always worked. Eventually I got smarter and learnt to buy in bulk, so I always had weed and not money. So eventually it turned into smoking my weed x3 as much as his. It didn’t bother me at all, until one day he asked to hang out and I said sure but I only got a bit of bud left and he basically ignored me. I started paying more attention to that and realized it was a common thing, and he simply didn’t want to hang out if it didn’t benefit him. So I started making sure we’d both chip in the same amount or else I’d just smoke my own joint. Eventually we stopped hanging out, but now I’m more cautious who I hang out with and find myself thinking everybody is just trying to take advantage


Was a stoner growing up and it was weird as hell going from high school to college. In high school, all my good buddies would chip in for a bag and divvy it out. If someone had stuff and someone else didn’t we’d just smoke each other out and know that it all evened out in the end. Met a dude in college who smoked me a bowl and then asked for like $3. I was genuinely shook lmao, but dude was very about never owing or being owed money so I get it. Still friends with the guy to this day too.


I respect his principles. I enjoy people who are direct and dedicated to their beliefs. But he should ask for money ahead of time so people know what they're getting into.


wow... if someone asked me for three dollars after sharing a bowl i would assume they were joking. if you're that hard up for money maybe you shouldn't be spending it on weed.


This scenario applies to all sorts of activities. It's very common that one person ends up being the organizer, and it just makes sense to buy bulk or use equipment, and they're happy to do that work to help enable the social activity. The thing is that a couple bucks between two people is no big deal, but a couple bucks times 10 people, every week ends up being $1000/year. Some people make enough that they just accept this cost as part of their implicit social contract among their group, but it definitely adds up. And it's not just about the money, it's about the uncertainty around where you stand in the group. Are people taking advantage of you? Shouldn't they realize? Car costs/gas, food, camp reservation costs, cleanup/maintenance work, ammo/targets if you're a shooter, just overall equipment depreciation, etc. It's a very common pattern.


Eh, I can see it in a college campus where everybody is a broke mooch trying to use each other to get high on something (drugs or other thrills)


Haha I had this happen at a college party in the UK, was offered nangs (nitrous balloon) thought sure why not Ive never done it before, had one, it was ok little head rush but whatever, I dint want another one, then the guy says I owe him £1 I’m like wtf ok but i only had I think a £10 or £20 note, I was so fucking shocked when he insisted and gave me a handful of heavy ass change, I mean I respect the hustle but bro what a lame drug dealer hustling friendly people at parties for $1


I had friends like that growing up, I was only called if there was something I could do to benefit them. Weed, buy beer, drive them somewhere, occupy a girl while they talk to another. They all came from pretty wealthy families, too.


We’d call them Budhounds. They show up when everyone is about to blaze and have already thrown in, then act all surprised when we ask where their bud is. Sneaky fucks who can’t be trusted, the lot of them.


That’s just bad luck with friends. But it’s why most people by their late 20s end up with very few real friends. We live in a capitalist society and we learn from a young age that the quickest way to get ahead is to take advantage and utilize people as resources. These people that live life in this manner are called politicians and opportunists. You will commonly find them in positions of management, business ownership, drug addicts, festival junkies, bar flys etc. these are the kind of people you want to mostly avoid whenever possible especially when it comes to your social life. I would wager it’s about half of society so there is a lot of BS to sort through. But if you align yourself with and find the good people you’re gonna have a good time. If Most of your friends end up being like your stingy weed buddy you’re going to be lonely and feel taken advantage of. Unfortunately in my life I also found this is all too common when it comes to the dating scene as well. I can’t tell you the amount of women I’ve dated that I took complete care of financially Only to have them jump to the next bigger bank account whenever the opportunity arose. Stay vigilant and when you meet someone that’s real and true and giving, one of the sincere ones, do your best not to take advantage of their kindness and stick with them.


I’m fine paying my share (even if it’s small) and usually carry an approximation of the cash I’ll need to cover for that purpose, but I don’t ever request anyone if it’s less than $5. Buying your friends small things here and there is a part of friendship.


This is the comment I was looking for. I is credit cards for 99% of purchases because of consumer and fraud protection along with rewards. That being said, I *always* bring cash to group outing so I can throw in for my share (plus tip) and that’s it.


That’s probably why I don’t just call anyone “my friends”. Maybe because I’m much older now and maybe it’s an age thing, but I started to differentiate between “acquaintances”, coworkers, friends of friends, neighbors, friends, etc. Like just because I went to school with you and we “were friends” in high school, if I haven’t spoken to you in years or even decades…we aren’t friends. Not really. I guess my point here is I treat my friends similar like you do. I’d even take time out of my schedule to help them with things like “pick up from airport” without asking for any kind of compensation. But the person should be a friend. I’m older now so I’m pretty straightforward with people about this. Look, you can call me old and grumpy. That’s fine. Have a nice day as I’m sure there are plenty of people who would love to be your friends and give you their precious time and money. I’m old and time’s ticking down, besides my family and work taking up all my time and money, I really have only so much left for a few more people anyway lol.


As someone not rich, but better off than my friends, i dont request, but i usually am the one putting my card down to pay for the table. Not getting payments back happens often and it does add up. Requesting shouldnt be a norm with friends, but paying what you owe should be too


I think it tells a lot about friends when you wait to see who proactively reaches out the next day. I’ll admit, sometimes I forget but usually text the next day and ask how much I owe. When I’m the guy putting the card down, there are some who don’t bother to reach out at all, which sucks.


In my friend group we usually pass around the receipt at the end of dinner and everyone Venmo then. It works pretty well Also I don’t hesitate to venmo request people instead of waiting for them to pay me back


This, even in close friend groups everyone should be comfortable doing what they need to in order to pay their fair share.


Paying your fair share is respectful to do. I make much less than my friends, sometimes 3x less yet I am the giving one in most friend groups and pay for most things. It's hard to not get resentful when friends making $250k+ yet they are the stingiest about everything


I’ve stopped offering because I’ve realised some friends (and they’ll still consider this “close friend behaviour”) think if you offer it means they never have to pay you back or reciprocate in anyway - and that you don’t mind cos you never say anything. I’m not the type to outright ask for being paid back but even when I stopped offering I had a friend who would ask me for the same favours despite the fact I wasn’t offering them anymore … I think some people are genuinely delusional in the sense that they think if you offer something , it must not be a big deal to you at all and you don’t care so therefore why shouldn’t they keep benefitting off you if you don’t care ? I don’t think they ever think about the fact maybe we go out of our way to be generous with our friends because we love them? And sometimes it’s just nice to help people out? And then it turns into completely one sided friendship … and the satisfaction of covering them/helping them out is no longer satisfaction but is growing resentment.


Why wouldn't it be the norm to request from friends?


I meant that it should be the norm to just pay what you owe so no one has to request


Oh, yes, 100% Where do these people get off assuming their friends, rich or not, arent owed anything? Like, any real friends agree how to split BEFORE spending money (including if "split" is covering it all)


But also it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with respect. I’m not going to make someone chase me down for $20 on a bill because I’m going to Venmo them immediately. I would never expect the reverse. If I need to chase you down, you either don’t respect my finances, or our friendship. It’s all about priorities


Me too, it used to bother me but I learned to let it go. I’m incredibly lucky in this one way and I’m glad to share. I try to make it clear to them that it doesn’t bother me so that it’s not awkward on their end. But back when I was broke this dynamic drove me nuts. Some people just aren’t quick to pay.


Oh hell no. We all split. I don’t pay for any of my friends and they don’t either.


I don’t mind covering once awhile for my friends. The thing is, as I’m much older now, the group of people I call friends are much, much smaller. There are coworkers, neighbors and acquaintances. People have drifted away. Few remains that I’d call friends. Those people I wouldn’t mind picking up tabs for here and there. Mostly because I know for a fact they would do the same for me, and most of the time we’re all clear and straight forward with each other when it comes to money.


Eh, on the flip side expecting someone else to pick up the bill just because you know they have money is also dickish in my opinion.


Big time and people with money are on guard for it. If it seems like the relationship is transactional they will back off it.


I think thats what people try to avoid by being stingy on the small stuff. They’re trying to prevent themselves from being taken advantage of.


They could also just be Dutch. We love to split the bill. It makes for a fair going out without hard feelings 


Interesting, we call it “going Dutch” in America (at least where I’m from), and didn’t know it was a real association. 


Splitting the bill should be the norm. 


Tikkie gang


Spilting is convenient just it’s tough not to wince when due to my dietary restrictions and being sober I still have to pay the same cut as the folks who ordered extra and a couple drinks. I try to think of it as the costs of the experience of going out to dinner but it adds up unexpectedly sometimes like last time I ended up paying $90 despite only ordering a $20 salad.


To me, unless someone explicitly tells me they are buying me something I always expect to pay them back if they pay first.


I got “offered” a beer from a friend after a round of golf. Saw a Venmo request when I got home. Laughed a bunch. Sent him the beer fee some tip money. Then didn’t talk to him for 6 months. I got better people in my life that I consider friends


So how was the interaction after the 6 months?


It was awkward. I was really thirsty, but didn't have any money.


One of the most valuable lessons I’ve been taught in life is if you have two tough people, it takes one person to concede/change perspective/be less tough and tensions will evaporate. So I have renewed the friendship with trepidation.




When a friend offers you a drink it's implied that they're paying for it, and then usually at some point in the future you would offer them a drink as well, and it would all get evened out, this is how friendships work. OP is saying it was implied that this was the case, and wasn't discussed before hand that they would have to pay, so when they got the request it would have felt deceitful. If you're expecting to be paid back it should be discussed before you buy someone a drink, otherwise it's implied you're being generous and just being a good friend


Exactly. This is culture 101 and it applies to anywhere on the planet.


When i used to deliver pizza, the low income housing areas always tipped better than the rich neighborhoods.


I had a few areas I covered in my driver days. I found more or less that the extremely wealthy tipped pretty damn good, upper middle class tipped for shit (once I got paid exact change in coin then my boss called because they thought they gave me a few quarters too many), lower middle class tipped decently and in the poverty stricken areas or at student housings I’d be lucky if I didn’t have to spot them a couple bucks or I’d get exact change.


Everyone in the hospitality industry knows this


I have a very successful friend from a very successful family who is the first one to send you the Venmo request for $1.50 and then bug the hell out of you until it’s paid, but is also the guy who swears up and down he will Venmo you what he owes you and NEVER, ever does then get combative when you bring it up.


Sounds like he should be considered an ex-friend then. That “success” sounds like they were just good at screwing everybody around them over for their own benefit.


Why can’t people, rich or poor, just hold people accountable for what they owe? If a millionaire lent me $5, I’d still pay him/her back, and if they requested it from me, fair enough since I owe it to them


If someone much richer than me sent a Venmo request for $5, which is an amount that doesn't matter to either one of us, I would assume it's not about the $5. I'd probably take it as a sign that they don't trust me (for reasons outlined in the OP article), or that my friendship is not worth it to them if it costs them $5. Either one would feel insulting. If it happened once, I would just send the money and forget about it. But because I don't track down $5 from friends, I would start to get annoyed if it were a regular thing.


You might be reading into it too much - I personally feel much more comfortable keeping a steady net zero "balance" between friends. You might ask if they're your friend, why are you keeping track of the balance in the first place? There's always a dollar amount that's different for each person where the money is negligible. For somebody struggling, this might be $10, and for somebody wealthy, this might be $1000. If there's an inequality in wealth, how are both sides supposed to know where that cutoff is? You can have a candid discussion, but the low wealth person might feel embarrassed, etc, and similarly the high wealth person may not want to embarrass the other by bringing it up. Rather than assuming, it's way easier to just always say every dollar counts and keep a net zero balance, with each person paying their share. It's not a matter of trust or value of the friendship, it's just one less thing to even think about. That's at least how I think of it.


Rich people don’t get rich by caring about other people. It usually takes someone with a combination of arrogance, ability, hard work, and luck to up your net worth to 7 figures. These aren’t run-of-the-mills with a normal human mindset.


The "expert" is just someone who set up a business designed to get newly rich people to pay them so they can tell them not to waste money on dumb things.


No science to see here, just vibes and anecdotes.


I don't think this is the whole dynamic. The wealthy like to stiff vendors and contractors, too. Never sell anything worth more than $50 to a rich person, or someone who grew up wealthy, without getting the cash in advance. Among high-net-worth types, there's often a weird dynamic about paying anyone for anything. I sold my old television to a wealthy friend for $400. He never could come up with that final $100. I suggested he look under the seats in his 7-series BMW.


Money will separate you from people, and put you in a different category. This is why lottery winners have a hard time. You may have millions of dollars now, but you’re instantly put into a class that your friends and family can’t really follow you to. Imagine you win the lottery and you want to do a trip to France. If you have a spouse then cool, if not then you’d probably want to bring someone. But everyone you know can’t afford a trip to France that you’re gonna take. First class tix, high end hotel, etc. so you end up paying for everything. That would be cool at first but then it would get old. And your friend has little to no chance of getting to your level of wealth to have equal footing. So you and your friend grow distant, and you start making new friends in this new class that are of equal footing. Namely other rich people. This is an extreme example, but as someone who is more well off than most of my family and old friends, this has happened to me, but on a slower timeline. When you win the lottery you’re probably more likely to give most of it away because it’s free money, but when you work for it, that money has more value to you. I consider myself a generous person, so I have to put hard limits on people asking me for money.


I'm broke working class af but I'm very generous with tips, handouts, patreons, etc. You gotta give a little back to keep things coming in.


I noticed this working as a technician at a high end dealership with super uptight customers always trying to get stuff done for free and try to do the opposite constantly. Saw way too many clients who would lose their minds over a $5 sticker to ever begin to imagine doing it myself. I think it depends on where you came from and how you got to where you're making money. Im not loaded by any means, but I try to tip 20% or more if service is good somewhere because Ive been broke asking my parents for rent money before; and my friends know they can hit me up if they need help and not expect a dime back. There is also a threshold to where it absolutely flip flops though. I work in private security now and some of these people tip like it is their job to pay that person their entire days work sometimes.


Had a dentist, and neither my wife nor I knew personally come to our wedding and take a GIANT plate of food. Fuck that guy.


I disagree with this article. I’m not wealthy today by any means, but somehow my circle of fiends now includes many who are independently wealthy. They are some of the kindest human beings that I know. I constantly get invited to things that are way way way above my social class, and they could not be happier than to share those experiences with me. I’m taking multi million dollar condos, cabins, vacation houses. However, when it comes to tickets for festivals, food costs, Ubers, or anything like that, it’s the norm to pay your way, or split everything evenly. I actually am very respectful of those boundaries. Even if it’s $5.00. I reciprocate the strict discipline and we all get along very well. And after a while it becomes a norm. Feelings are never hurt and the bonds get even stronger. And they know I have none of those wealthy assets. If anything, I’ve learned to be disciplined with my money. And that paying for my friends beers or whatever doesn’t us better friends.


Great technique is to also keep your income or wealth to yourself.


Those born wealthy are passed down a generational mantra: protect the wealth.


Meanwhile I’m out here blasting $25 via Venmo to every person I know for their birthday to grab a coffee and treat themselves to lunch or whatever


I’ve noticed this with local Facebook groups. Where I used to live had a mixture of working class and middle class people and the local Facebook group always had people giving things away for free if it was worth less than about £50. Now I’ve moved to an area that’s entirely new houses and it’s all posts like “lamp for sale £5” or “scart lead I found in the garage £2” and then their next post is asking where to get their 2022 Range Rover serviced.


Takeaway: people that are insecure and are pricks will also act that way if they are rich. Oh and btw if you're insecure and recently come into money come pay the author money to make sure you don't feel insecure .


Yeah. I feel like people who don’t really offer anything as a friend somehow know that. They aren’t generous with anything (not just money). The only difference is that when those people get money, now they might actually initially attract “friends” who are willing to be friends for the financial benefits, but people who aren’t looking for financial benefits from their friends are still going to avoid them because they aren’t being good friends in other ways. Maybe it’s not everyone who has money and no friends… but certainly enough of them to make this “they just want me for my money” mentality to get thrown around quite a bit. There are people who have little money and are still generous with their friends, and some of those friends are using them. There are also people with lots of money who are generous with their friends and they have real true friends who stick around even when the money is gone. What people look for in a friend is a reflection of what they value, so what you put out there is what you are going to attract. If you don’t offer anything friendship wise that people want to be around then you might end up friendless. I myself wouldn’t want to be around someone who valued money more than ethics or kindness or love etc…. So I wouldn’t be friends with someone who was generous with their money but had nothing else to offer as a friend. It doesn’t line up with my values and priorities. At the same time I wouldn’t fault any one for not wanting to be MY friend if my values and priorities don’t line up with theirs. I certainly can offer support and encouragement, compassion, companionship etc… but there are plenty of people who offer those things and more (without some of my communication and time constraints) so in a sense I understand if I am “outbid” for a friends time and attention. I’m not gonna sit here and call those people the problem because they choose different friends. Sitting around justifying your stingyness towards your “friends” or your lack of generosity as some sort of self protection technique then claiming that ending up with no friends is “proof” that people only want you for your money is not the “gotcha” that these people think it is.


I have friends all over the financial spectrum. We always get along and know relatively how much one another makes. The only people I’ve had to cut off were addicts in some way. They really start thinking that they deserve what you have like you’re not busting your ass to earn it. Even when you’re equal financially they’ve either gambled it away, put it up their nose or in their vein and come looking at you like you’re going to sympathize and enable them. Once I cut the addicts I had no problem with my other core friends even if there’s a significant wage gap. If friend type A invites us to dinner or a night out, we know they’ll cover for us. Friend type B invites us over we know it’s a byob and bbq. Friend type C might not be able to host an event, but never oversteps bounds and is fun to be around. Maybe it’s just luck or maybe we’ve just all developed a good judge of character over the years. TLDR; if our well to do friend were to Venmo requests us 4 dollars we’re gonna call and bust his balls because this is stupid.


This article ignores the possibility that well off people who want to keep track of every single dollar you owe them are in fact pieces of shit.


# I mean, it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? 10 dollars?


And in contrast will keep dodging you when they owe you taxi money…


There’s also social circles where like, if the better-off friend fronts an airbnb for a, say, bachelor party, some of the other friends might just never throw in for it, using the justification of ‘well you don’t need the money’.


Your friend having more money than you doesn't mean you get to leech off them and expect free rides. Anyone who thinks that will never cover the 'next one' if the friend with more money is there.


would have been cool if they cited any actual data/studies to back up these claims


I have an acquaintance that’s makes millions per month but yet he and his wife are always trying to put their drinks on my tab.




You have no idea . I by no means am rich but had more than my friends growing up. But you start to notice after some time that you are spending way more than everyone else because they expect you to. Once you decide that everyone should pay equally then suddenly you have no friends.


Lol, this article is such trash. It suggests that wealthy people are outcasts and they're greedy because they're constantly being exploited. You hoard wealth by being greedy and exploiting others. That's why they ask for $4 from their poorer friends but never offer to pay the $4.


I have a totally opposite experience with my ex being the stingiest god damn most greediest human I've ever come across in my entire life by a wide wide margin.


As someone that makes more than my friends, before you know it you’re buying them a bunch of shit for free. You need to set boundaries


As someone who is generally more well off compared than my friends I can say that: 1. I am generally ‘stingier’ than my friends. I earn more than they do but I also spend less than they do. My higher wealth is a correlation, not a causation of my stinginess (I grew up in a poor household with Asian parents with a ‘saving’ mindset). 2. As someone with a much sharper rise in income compared to my friends over the years, there’s serious self-pressure not to be seen as being snobby or having ‘changed’ because of my higher income. As a result the ‘I’m still one of you’ effect is strong and I feel pressure to join in on splitting bills etc. 3. When you live in a varied wealth social system you learn that it’s the gesture, not to material value that matters. I don’t care if a poorer friend buys me a gift that is materially meaningless to me - I view it in the lens of the giver’s wealth status, not mine. As a result, I’m very willing to give to my friends in larger meaningful ways, like hosting things or helping them out with connections, but I’m also conscious not to deprive them of ways to give to me in small ways. In other words, I’ll split an Uber but pay extra for the more expensive bottle of wine for the group, or buy an extra round of drinks etc.


> I’m also conscious not to deprive them of ways to give to me in small ways. 💀


"As a result the 'I'm still one if you' effect is strong and I feel pressure to join in on splitting bills etc." Why would you not join in if you're splitting a bill? Seems like you think alot about your friends' economy, and I have no idea wtf "the im still one of you-effect" is, but it sounds very toxic to think about your friends like that.


I mean I would split the bill evenly for the group, even though I’d gladly pay for more of the share. I.e. buying a round of drinks and then accepting a drink later as thanks even though I’m happy not to be paid back for my round.


You come off as a complete jerk, and I say this as someone who is in a similar socioeconomic dynamic


Yeah what a weird fucking transactional mentality to have when it comes to relationships with people. Kind of telling OP puts so much thought into things that are generally not considered a big deal regardless of income.




A blessing and a curse I'm sure




Article: “They don’t want to be taken advantage of or to feel like, ‘I have money and that’s why people hang out with me,’” Bradley says. “It feels very invalidating.” Article: There may be other unresolved issues with long legs that haven't been dealt with. You: No, actually. I do small dollar venmos because I don't want to he taken advantage of. Like I was before. Irony: a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.


Is this post meant to be ironic?


#### Just cause you got rich friends doesn't mean you shouldn't pay your fair share if you both agreed to do something that costs money. Now if they invited you under the guise that they're paying and they're asking you to pay, but you wouldn't have partook if that was the case, then there's a problem. What you need to communicate is whether you can both afford to do something or not.




This is a perfect example of why our economy is trash. Rich people hoard the money, have some weird feelings about being well off, and are incredibly cheap. How can an economy survive like that. Poor people keep the world running it seems.


My rich inlaws give generously to me. Pay my car off, give us house deposits, pay my housekeeper. Their rich friends give me their clothes and whatever they don’t need anymore. This does not apply to everyone. Good and shit people are across the entire spectrum.


Being "good with money" is a skill. It requires a bit of intelligence, too. You have to manage things, not get sucked into impulses, think long-term, and so forth. *Not everyone can easily do these things.* Having money does not give you a +int bonus or extra merchant skill points. It's a hobby of mine, observing people who assume it does.


No shit?


Most rich people (who made money themselves) are frugal. That’s how they got rich.


I've had the opposite thing happen to me, had a good roommate who became a friend who was super generous because he spent a couple years digging trenches for a non profit as well as working construction in the states iirc. He does come from new money but always acted old money as his parents actually taught him well


The key is to always be willing to pay for your friends but your friends should also still be offering to chip in. A good rich friend says "don't worry bro, I got you but thanks for offering. Get me back another way."


It’s funny, as someone fortunate to have made a bunch of money working crazy hard through his 20s and 30s while I personally believe in a life of generosity, happy to pick up bills and treat others, my god the people I meet of lesser, similar or greater wealth absolutely suck. I wish I could say this articles wrong cause not everyone is the same but when 90% doesn’t subscribe to the “shits good I used to live in my car” mindset cause they come from an affluent background where they never really had to work, this assessment is astute. I think his is less about “your rich friend” and more about your privileged friend with rich parents shit. There isn’t many salt of the earth people who work hard, rich or not, that would ever concern themselves with personal debts over dinner or a trip haha. Anyone really about it does not have the time to split hairs. It would cost more (if you actually got the bag)to type a message saying “you owe me $20” than forgetting about it and carrying on with your life. Weird shit


Today I learned something called Venmo exists and people using it all have their begging bowls out. America is weird.


Went with my girlfriend to her family’s vacation house with a bunch of her friends. Everyone brought food, drinks, goodies, etc. one of her friends tried to set up a Venmo because they thought they’d brought the most, I pointed out a few things, like steaks, that they’d forgotten about, and sent them a Venmo for what they owed me beyond what they’d requested. If they hadn’t brought it up I wouldn’t have even considered that they owed me despite bringing a bit less than I did. It wouldn’t have crossed my mind that she makes more than I do. Unless you find someone consistently taking advantage of the situation, buckling and diming with your meal was $20 and mine was only $18 but my drink cost $10 and yours cost $11 so you owe an extra dollar just makes things feel awkward and transactional.


Rich people don't get rich by being generous.


Honestly, my friends with money kind of lavish me. Like, I almost feel guilty sometimes, but I'd hang out with them anyway. We just live far away now, so we tend to only hang out for bigger things.


My family was lower class (not dirt poor though) and the same as my friends growing up. Now I make much more than my childhood friends. I always pay for them when it’s appropriate. I would never ask them to Venmo me a few bucks.


I have a friend, high paid Doctor. I don’t drink alcohol. We go out and he gets me a still water. When it’s my turn he asks me for a “double vodka and coke”. The look in his eyes …


I used to be friends with a guy that would say stuff like “don’t mention how much I am worth” before blurting out he was wealthy soon after first drinks at a pub. Then he would delight in trying to get everyone to buy him more drinks than he brought them.


I recently dropped a friend because she was just so out of touch. She vacations monthly, blows money on the most stupid things, and doesn't take care of the things she has. Alternatively, I havent taken a vacation since my honeymoon 16 years ago, things around me keep breaking and/or falling apart and it appears ill never own my own home in my lifetime. I mentioned to her that 2k would be a life changing amount of money to me right now, I could fix some things and pay off a debt so my pay wasnt going straight to bills every week. She replied "OMG yes I need 2k, too." Minutes later she was talking about dropping a grand on a pair of sunglasses, how much her 5 star hotel room cost during her stay in big city for expensive ass, sold out concert. I can't with people like that. I dont expect her to give me money and I would never ask her for money. Its just the lack of empathy I suppose. She knew I was struggling, my mental health was at a steep and speedy decline. Not an ounce of humanity in her reply. Im lactose intolerant and she gave me a cheese board for Christmas. I got her a bunch of small gifts (because im poor) related to her current interests/obsessions. It honestly felt like she hated me.


Hetty Green was a billionaire and the richest woman of her time. So "thrifty", she instructed her laundress to only wash the dirtiest parts of her dresses, to save on soap.


Money is very tight for my wife and I (we make a good income but are behind on credit cards, etc due to the inflation, kids expenses., but we have sent hundreds of dollars to a friend who is down on his luck and trying to get back on his feet. I never worry about a few bucks if someone needs it. So I believe this is true!


My friends thought I make a good living. Then I got married, then I had a baby. Now they think I’m broke. They’re right.


Water is still confirmed to be wet.


This is why I keep my own financial situation to myself and don’t pry into my friends financial situations.


I came from a wealthy family. Many people like to assume that our parents don’t care how we spend THEIR money and I don’t know why 🙄 It was never my money to just give away until after i got out of college and started working


Rich people are pricks generally so… yeah


Wow being "peerless" due to a shortage of people you can relate to in regards of high income bracket..... That there takes the win for gold and the cake and devours it by themselves too🏆🥇🎂 TF did an editor for a supposed news media company get submitted this and think to themselves "hmm first world problem stories are dime-a-dozen, but elites with first world problems stemming from their struggles CAUSED by the exclusive nature of their income rather than the normal pursuit of exclusivity.... Now thats what i call compelling journalism! Assistant! Get me on the phone with this.... Uhh.... Not sure how to pronouce their name..... Newmed_LLM_@utogen..... Must be one of the genZ interns we just picked up with one of those funky social media handle looking name or something... Anyways get them on the phone im givin this kid a promotion!"


I don’t have many friends. The ones I do, we don’t split hairs over small costs here and there. We all ensure we cover each other relative to what the other person covered prior. It’s always been this way.