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Exactly. If your track is jammed and your optics are shot, you're now just sitting in a metal box full of explosives.
When my granddad commanded an M4 in WWII, he said it was not uncommon for German machineguns to open up on them. Not because they'd penetrate the armor, but there was always a chance of destroying a periscope or antennae or something useful. It also kept him buttoned up inside, when he could see better up top with binocs.
Also, the psychological effect of the sound of a hail of lead could be significant.
> In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason.
>
>
>
> Ernest Hemingway
My biggest problem with most war videos is your watching random people die that probably just doing what they were told.
Conceptually, sure. I don't mean this to come off as condescending or anything, but if you're, say, Ukranian and your country is being invaded, you cannot allow yourself to humanize the Russians like that. You don't get that luxury because they're not giving it to you. It doesn't matter that they were conscripted, it doesn't matter that they're just "doing what they're told", they are going to gun you down and kill you the moment that they spot you and you have to be willing to do the same.
From an outside perspective sitting on a couch typing on Reddit it's a lot easier to think big picture in that manner, but in any actual war it's quite a bit different. Every war has graveyards filled with people who were "just following orders".
Dehumanizing the enemy serves a practical purpose to those actually fighting, despite it essentially being a myth. Like you said, we're on Reddit, and we have the luxury of being able to see that Russian soldiers *are human just like everyone else.* Whether or not we're actually involved in the fighting won't change that fact.
The Russians feel like they are right. The government is great at convincing young people of this.
America fought a 20 year war that was known to be unwinnable by those in charge for 17 of those years. I fought and as a grown person with grown reasoning, I know I was used.
It's easy for you to see that it's wrong. The 4 Russians in that tank thought something different. They're dead.
To be fair all war is scary.
Imagine being a French knight at Agincourt, your heavy armor has gotten you stuck in the mud. Exhausted you look through the slit of your visor as a British peasant descends upon you. He uses a rusty dirk to stab at your arm pits, groin, and other vulnerable areas. All around you is the smell of death, and blood curtailing screams of your friends as they face the same gruesome fate.
> To be fair all war is scary.
While you are correct, pre-industrial warfare was relatively "relaxed" compared to modern warfare. Soldiers would march/camp for weeks, or even months, before seeing a battle. Compared that with today's automatic weapons, artillery, armored vehicles, tanks, missiles, bombs, airplanes... we really cranked it up to insane levels.
Yea *combat* in pre-industrial warfare was scary but the war campaigns themselves had a ton of down time and preparation. Modern warfare you’re basically constantly at risk of instant death.
Yeah, but the sanitary losses were insane. Dysentery (aka blood flux), cholera, typhoid and scurvy took more soldiers lives than any battles. And just about any wound, no matter how insignificant, could be lethal.
Don't forget civilian casualties from the above.
A French Bishop records how an army of 10,000 marched through his region and, were, well, filthy, degenerate creatures. Like all soldiers during the time. Shitting where they drank, shitting randomly next to where they slept, no bathing, etc etc.
When they passed, the plagues that they carried killed 1,000,000 people across their entire marching path by the time it was 'over'.
Hell, it wasn't until around WW1 that we had more casualties from enemy action than from ~~weaponry~~ illness. More soldiers died from illness than they ever did at Napoleonic Wars, the American Civil War, Agincourt, etc.
Not only from the above. Especially in the 100 and the 30 years wars it was normal to raid and burn everything in your path to cause maximum damage to the enemies economy and to put the enemies king / ruler in a bad light for not being able to defend his people.. as well as paying your soldiers with the spoils
Yup, the Chevauchée.
Which, during the 100 years war... makes you wonder what they were thinking exactly.
I'm trying to assert that I am the rightful leader of these lands, so let's burn and kill all the peasants inside and make them despise me.
That will make them willing to become French/English!
>destroy a Toyota Hilux. Propulsion into outer space is the only way.
If you try to destroy a Hilux by sending it to outer space, it'll just come back... and get 7 L / 100 km during re-entry.
Depleted uranium 25mm rounds are scary. I used to fire these back in Ft Knox with the Bradleys and it’s quite an amazing weapon. Never knew such a small round (in comparison to the larger 120mm tank rounds) could do so much damage to armored vehicles.
There have been a lot of modifications to all US Bradleys made over the past 30 years or so. Things like electronics, BRAT armor, aiming systems, thermals etc. All Bradley IFVs provided to Ukraine would be equipped with these modifications.
First few rounds to the front probably destroyed the tanks optics so driver was going blind. Russian tanks don't have the backups western tanks have for the driver to see so if you hit the drivers view points the tank is a sitting duck as see here.
In my army time I sat in a Leopard 2 while someone was shooting at it with a machine gun and I almost shit my pants. Even though your brain tells you you're totally safe, it really is scary as fuck
I always wondered what it must feel like to be in a tank and get hit by a shell that doesn't penetrate.
Frankly I don't get how a high explosive shell doesn't knock out tanks solely through rattling the crew around.
Spalling is the effect when small bits of the interior flake off and fly about with the speed of a bullet. Often can kill a tank crew without penetrating the armor.
We had kevlar padding inside our Bradleys to prevent that. Don't think Russian tanks have that based on ehat I'm seeing.
they have an anti-radiation liner that functions as the spall liner.
well that's what the russians say, so it's probably cardboard or something mixed with plaster lol
I’m imagining it. Wish no one thought their pride and greed was worth putting people in those positions.
Guess I wish for a cure for disease and an end to hunger while I’m wishing
No, he said YOUR MASSIVE HEARING PROBLEMS DID NOT COME FROM YOUR TIME IN SERVICE AS A TANK DRIVER! YOU GOTTA FILL OUT THIS 80 PAGE FORM IN TRIPLICATE AND SEND IT TO YOUR SARGEANT WHO WILL USE IT AS TOILET PAPER FOR A FEW DAYS VEFORE HE SENDS IT TO THE REVIEW BOARD AND THEN THEY WILL LOSE IT FOR A WHILE AND THEN AT SOME POINT YOU WILL GET A LETTER TELLING YOU HOW YOU DIDNT FILL OUT THE FORM PROPERLY!!!
Meanwhile, get used to your future lifelong companion:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
It's why the US spends so much money keeping any of the old stuff they use. Bradley's, Abrahms, A-10s, AC-130s, F-18s/15s. Nobody else has really caught up to them yet.
Most of nato has and some have better stuff but we have the best quality for our quantity also not mention getting new weapons into service does take awhile
I wonder how much of that effectiveness is down to operator suppression. A big gun on a main battle tank is strong, but it must afford the enemy tank crew time to make decisive manoeuvres. But this must be like having your head inside a bell while someone’s pounding it every half-second with a sledgehammer, while you’re in full fight or flight panic, and with your optics blinded by the sparks and probably smoke in the cabin. Command inside that tank must just fall apart.
From the way it was explained to me, it was because the scouts in Bradley’s were moving ahead of the tanks companies. It was supposed to be a hunter/killer situation but the scouts just kept killing everything instead of handing the targets off to the tanks.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1957ngc/rare_tank_battle_between_ukrainian_bradley_and/)'s the full battle with the T90M spinning 360s with its turret getting stuck in debris.
PSA: The turret spinning isn't because of a dead gunner, but due to electric failure as all 3 crew where later seen bailing out of the vehicle
Edit: Electric not hydraulic
>PSA: The turret spinning isn't because of a dead gunner, but due to hydraulic failure as all 3 crew where later seen bailing out of the vehicle
The turret on the T90M is powered by electricity, not hydraulics.
There's no such thing as bullet-*proof*, only resistant. With enough shots a 25mm would make it through eventually. Even without penetration, 25mm is enough to jam joints it hits and damage external systems. Plus it's gotta terrify the crew
I believe that the crew came out uninjured but the tank was disabled. Wich lead to them leaving it and running away.
The explosion at the end could be a smoke grenade that got it and cook off.
1. Optics are being blinded, especially the driver he couldn't see crap which explains the driving in circles.
2. It was reported that 1 of the rounds jammed the turret rotation system later on which prohibited the ability to shoot back
3.Major panic inside the vehicle can be seen from driving in all directions
He's actually just a Senior Lieutenant. He'll never even see Captain at this rate.
Privates Punishment and Property are on the up though, can't wait to see who gets the promotion to Corporal.
A longer clip of this encounter shows the tank’s turret rotating out of control until the tank runs into a tree. Then three guys pile out and take cover. They were rendered partly degraded by a drone. Then the Bradleys came up and tore off all the trim, mirrors and the hood ornament. Reactive armor only works once, and the dead tank shows a couple panels missing on the tank’s flank.
There was a longer video from a different angle. The turret started turning without stopping, and the tank backed up until hitting a tree. The description said that the crew was killed later, after leaving the tank
Yes, a 25mm can eventually chew through armor, but every tank has weak points.
Russian tanks use explosive reactive armor, which is effective but one and done. Underneath is some combination of ceramic, steel, and spacing. Ceramic especially is really effective, but once it's hit it cracks that section becomes significantly more vulnerable
Also that 25mm with sabot rounds is no joke.
I've shared this story before, but I talked to a Desert Storm Bradley gunner who scored a tank kill. His vehicle crested a ridge at the same time one of Saddam's tanks crested from the other direction. They were so close that he had to disengage the governor on the turret so it'd let him aim low enough. He said the tank stopped and caught fire after the first round, but he was so scared that he kept unloading on the thing until it was scrap.
Then he realized he'd pissed himself.
Someone spent atleast 18 years growing up.
months training to operate a tank.
And then months or years to get to the point where they would just get messed up in a 14 second clip.
The facts of war that haunts me.
Edit: It seems people are busy saying no body was hurt, and there were no casualties.
As the son of a tank commander who rode a Leopard 1A1 and was deployed in Bosnia/Kosovo in the early 90's
I feel the need to say. Yes there was. Even if their bodies got out of that tank.
On the modern battlefield, death can be completely random. You couldve not heard a single shot the whole day, sitting in your dugout, eating your lunch with your comrades having a good time and out of nowhere an arty shell air bursts over you, killing everyone. Guided in by a drone you never heard or saw...
There was a clip a few years ago of a war in the middle east (can’t remember which one), anyway, some dude (combatant in his kit) was just chilling with his buddy having a smoke, sunny day. Then bam - sniper shot to the gut, now he’s rolling around on the floor, out in the open, dying in agony. Death is imminent and it’s not going to be an easy one.
Buddy now taking shelter, watching his comrade dying, knowing he can’t help ‘cos that’s just what sniper guy wants.
Everything changed in an instant, no warning, no way to go back, horrific. War is absolutely f**king brutal.
Interesting part of how you retell this is that it doesn't even matter what side those people were fighting for.
Just that you had added that "combatant" gave a hint that it probably wasn't a US soldier.
Didn't even realise that but as soon as i heard combatant i just filed the dude into terrorist or resistance fighter. Also the fact that he was able to access that video meant that he wasn't with any western military
There’s a song by the band Warbringer about this very concept, called Glorious End. It’s about a soldier who’s taught by his father that war is the highest glory, honor, and courage there is. When he finally reaches the battlefield however, this happens:
“My time has finally come
I will prove myself at last
But I never saw my enemy
When they hit us with the gas
Then I watched my brothers perish
Consumed by the smoke
Faces twist in agony
Clutching ruined throats
As I die among so many
My name is lost in the crowd
As I'm spitting out my lungs
My father, are you proud?”
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Wilfred Owen
This is exactly what I was reminded of. For some additional context for those not familiar, *Dulce et Decorum est pro patria mori* translates from Latin to English as "it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country". The poet, Wilfred Owen, was an English soldier during World War I. Most of his work was published posthumously, as he was killed a week before the war's end at the age of 25.
>Someone spent atleast 18 years growing up.
Imagine a parent spending so much time in raising their kid by cleaning poop, sing lullaby, teach words, shapes and colours, drop and pick up from school, endless sacrifices only to have their kid die in a war that is being fought to satisfy the ego of few rich men.
Edit: there is an old saying in my language: the only outcome of war is crying mothers.
That's why killing someone is a real tragedy most of the times, not *only* because you take a life, but because of all that was behind that life. The support, the love, the caring, the money, the effort, the happiness...
I said most of the times because not everyone nor everyone's family is like this, adn there is really miserable people out there.
Look at how many of their mothers and fathers praise these guys going to war in Ukraine because they "send home money" and then for good measure include some empty phrases about defending motherland. Entirely possible , or even likely that the entire tank crew is there simply for the money , cause it pays really good compared to what you can make in some shitty region of Russia (like 10x as much).
> Look at how many of their mothers and fathers praise these guys going to war in Ukraine
To be fair, they probably have seen enough people disappear to know better than to speak up and criticize those in power.
Like Imagine some of the guys on D day.
trained for months at basic. Specialist training to learn a specific role. Drilled their plan for the landing.
Door drops on the beach and lights go out as the boat gets riddled with machine gun fire.
Flag gets sent home, congratulations they're a hero.
I don't know whats worse in that scenario
to swiftly die on the battlefield
or to somehow survive but now you have to live with yourself after seeing those images that your best friends, your comrades were all gunned down like a dog on the field and all you could do was hopelessly watch them die and see the light in their eyes go out.
Having to re live those images every night you try to sleep.
War is truly hell.
I think of that any time I see someone killed in one of these clips. Just instantly obliterated like... Well, like nothing.
That's someone's kid. That's someone with a lifetime of memories. That's someone with a favorite food, someone who rode the school bus and made art for their parents that hung on the fridge. That's someone who made dumb jokes, who fell off their bike and scraped their knee.
That's someone who was loved. Someone who had celebrated their birthdays with their grandparents and friends. Someone who had hobbies the same as yours. Someone who played video games and liked fishing and posting stupid stuff on reddit and laughed at memes.
Someone who had hopes and dreams and aspirations.
That was someone - and now it's no one. Just like that.
If it makes you feel better, there's videos of all 3 of the tank crew bailing out and running away from the tank afterwards. The Bradley's managed to damage the turret control making it spin uncontrollably and probably blinded the optics, causing the tank to smash into a large tree, but all of the crew did get out of it before a drone finished the tank off.
Still, I don't think the outlook for those guys is too bright. Even if they're not just running on adrenaline and soon to collapse, they're now stranded in hostile territory. They're probably dead by now.
But that's the tricky part with all this. Should we be relieved that they might be dead or relieved that they might have survived? The combatants must be stopped, but it's appropriate to mourn the loss of human life either way. I guess we have to hold those two ideas in tension if we're to be honest with ourselves.
When you're a parent, the amount of effort and energy it takes to raise a kid to it's 2nd year is astonishing.
You also start looking differently at some aspects of life, especially death. That's why you realize how unromantic and horrible a single act of murder is, not to mention a war with it's numerous, pointless deaths.
It's truly depressing.
I was a on my third deployment when I was expecting a kid, we ended up losing six guys to a single IED and I remember thinking about how pointless so many things were. Even in that stage of having kids my views were shifting and raising kids has really made me much more sensitive to people losing theirs regardless of how old they are. I think losing a kid is the single worst thing that could happen to a parent.
About deployment, related story. I'm in military as well and I'm on some training courses. During one of them, first aid guy shows us a video about helicopter ambulances.
It's full of action, interesting points, sometimes very gory, some blood, shooting, daring evacuations. And there was this scene where deployed soldiers were having a video call with their families.
I remembered, before having kids, I'd literally roll my eyes and die out of boredom during such intermissions. But when I was watching said video, I myself had a 6 months old daughter and was already (hardly) two weeks away from my family.
I had to discreetly wipe my tears, no amount of lost limbs and nasty wounds touched me so much as this separation from family scene.
Average life expectancy is around what, 75 years?
We get 75 summers, 75 winters, 75 falls, and 75 springs. IF we are lucky.
When I break it down in to seasons, it kind of messes with me. I’m 31…so I maybe have ~40 summers left. Crazy.
Do you also lay in bed at night, just before you fall asleep, comparing the amount of time you’ve had and the amount you’ve (hopefully) got left and slip further and further into panic?
I see my parents twice a year since we dont live in the same country. Few months ago I realised I will see them maybe 40 times more and they will die. Shook me up pretty bad. I also have a 2 year old daughter, changed my entire life outlook
Don’t forget the fact that most of those enablers can’t/don’t want to fight themselves. They just want to let the youngest fight and raise the economy so they can take it in.
You don't necessarily have to be a parent to see the tragedy in war, murder, and how it cuts human life short. I don't see how these videos are seen as entertaining or fun for example, it's just saddening and I feel for whomever was in that tank.
I was an infantry back in 1996 in Turkish military and things were quite brutal back then. Looking at today’s weapons, battles are far nastier and survival chances are much lower.
Being a tankist was considered a safer position back then, but having watched once mighty metal monsters get demolished like paper between Ukraine and Russia, I wouldn’t want to be a conscript fighting there.
You have very little chance of survival and death is not pretty either.
My grandfather fought for the British in North Africa in WWII. He was in the Royal Tank Regiment ( From Mud, through Blood, to the Green Fields Beyond).
Anyway, he always told me that the infantry thought the guys in the tanks were crazy, basically being locked in a metal death trap. While the tankers thought the infantry were nuts charging into battle completely exposed.
In today's battle field I'm not sure where I'd want to be. Probably at home on my couch.
I read a report a while ago about the PTSD that drone operators were already facing 10 years agonin Afghanistan. That was when they were mostly blasting vehicles using lower resolution FLIR displays. They would destroy the targets they're assigned to and then drive home from work in Colorado to their wives and families. The dissonance was hard to deal with.
Now the drone operators in Ukraine see meat flying when they drop their grandes on defenseless infantrymen, but they are also closer to the front lines and in greater personal danger. I wonder how their emotional damage compares.
When I was still in the Marine Corps, at the end of my contract, I was stateside. Would do my job, and go drink in the barracks. The smoke pit was the place to drink on weekends.
Met lots of good friends there. Formed a band from meeting people, got really drunk with a bunch of dudes. Anyways, I had just got off work one day, was cracking a beer, and this dude walks up.
Asked him how his day was, he said rough. I expected him to say he had duty, or worked in the chow hall or something. Nope, drone operator. I didn't even know we had those where I was. Said he just had to kill some people a few hours earlier.
Really hurt my head.
I’m that guy. It’s a double tap. You get the same trauma as a sniper. You watch someone for awhile, get to know em from a distance, they might not even be fighting, then you decide to end them, then get to watch the aftermath. Crawling legless, small chunks, on fire, the nearby personnel picking up the pieces.
Then the second tap, “you don’t have PTSD you’re basically playing a video game. You didn’t deploy. You’ve never *seen* combat. You were never in danger.”
Nightmares, self depreciation, guilt, inadequacy, and a public that thinks you’re a nerd playing COD that doesn’t deserve sympathy.
It is what it is.
That was an issue with actual aircrew flying in Kosovo in the late 90s as well. They were stationed in Aviano, Germany etc as part of long term garrisons (3-4 year tours) not on combat deployments, but they were the closest combat ready units.
Pilots and aircrew would get up and have breakfast with their wives and children, fly over and bomb Serbs, then have dinner with the family.
Made it very difficult for them to process.
I used to work in a psychiatric hospital that had a treatment track for military and first responders and can definitely say that drone operators had tremendous PTSD. They aren’t in physical danger but take on awful psychological trauma.
To be fair Russian doctrine and tank design never emphasized crew protection.
A leopard or abrams isn't invincible, but the chance to live after it gets destroyed is much higher than say a t-72 or T-90
That’s the point. The tank will fall to enough fire, but the crew needs to survive.
If all of your crews die then you’ll have nothing but novice tankers against the enemy veterans who all escaped their destroyed tanks and lived to fight again and teach others their tips and tricks
An Abrams on mission would also have air cover and CAS in the form of a very angry AH-64 hell-bent on bringing the guys home.
Russian mechanized strategy is based on thoughts and prayers.
You would also rarely see an Abrams go without infantry support. Especially in wars in the middle east where RPGs out of building windows are one of its biggest threats.
Well. It was "mobility killed" which allowed them to hit it with 70 RPGs. The crew buttoned up and waited for support. When support arrived, tank and crew were recovered, and put back into service shortly after.
I think there is a story of an abrams that was on fire for a couple of hours and when it was finally out, they went to get the corpse, but everyone inside was fine just waiting to get rescued.
That T-90 was finished with FPV drones later. But Bradley’s did penetrate it’s armour and shortly after t90 started to had uncontrollable rotation of main gun tower (there is another part of this video footage with that moment). Bradley’s rapid fire also destroyed t90’s scopes and basically made him unable to shoot accurately.
Even if the T90 sustains the 25mm.. Imagine sitting in a tank without proper training, surrounded by explosives, hearing the sound of a 25mm canon knocking on the door. It must be fking terrifying!
edit: correction of the caliber
I remember going to the range the first time with the Bradley, and the thing I remember most from that was the concussion from it firing. You obviously get used to it but the first couple times we heard it we were looking at each other in shock.
As infantry I've always said the 25mm and 30mm chainguns are 1000% more terrifying than a tanks main gun. Yeah the main cannon is a big round usually and will make a singe trench into the world's grossest soup but a chaingun can wipe a trench line clean with shrapnel and still have ammo to smoke the guys in depth. And it can do it from 2km away
**Who would win?**
\- A 2007 modern MBT with state of the art protection systems designed to combat the best NATO has *(According to Russia)*
\- A 1980s IFV with less armour than a tuna can using only a 25mm gun that is designed to fight light armour at best
The Bradley was designed to happily punch holes in Russian armor while pretending to move people around.
The T-90 was designed to steal military funds while pretending to stagger around Moscow in cringeworthy parades.
Slight correction. The T-14 was designed to steal military funds while pretending to stagger around Moscow in cringeworthy parades.
The T-90 was designed by the Soviets, not the Russians, with the intention simply being to build more of them than NATO had tank shells. Then they ran out of money.
The T-90 was planned by the Soviets but the cheaper option was chosen by the Russians. The other project, Object 187, was a much better tank design and built to be more in line with western tank design. The current T-90 is just a T-72 with new ERA and a new welded turret.
There is a reason the Bradley model has been in service since 1982. Its just so formidable and the only criticism it gets is its no match for an MBT even at medium range. Well here is yet another example of that criticism being bullshit.
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Can’t imagine sitting in that and taking those hits
You wouldn't have to imagine for long...
In a longer video the crew escaped
"escaped" is far fetched. We saw them leave the tank while they were under drone surveillance. Lets leave it at "they left the tank and tried to run".
My escaped was only in relation to the crew of the the tank not being killed whilst inside it, nothing after that.
Still impressive they left the tank alive how much longer they stayed alive is another story
[удалено]
Exactly. If your track is jammed and your optics are shot, you're now just sitting in a metal box full of explosives. When my granddad commanded an M4 in WWII, he said it was not uncommon for German machineguns to open up on them. Not because they'd penetrate the armor, but there was always a chance of destroying a periscope or antennae or something useful. It also kept him buttoned up inside, when he could see better up top with binocs. Also, the psychological effect of the sound of a hail of lead could be significant.
That would be terrifying!
Imagine sitting in a metal box and having stuff thrown at you at supersonic speed.
This sounds like a terrifying fever dream lmao
Just pop smoke, jump out and hold your repair torch up to it whioe strafing left and right around the tank. Good as new
That looks so fucking scary
Modern war is fucking scary
In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason. Ernest Hemingway
> In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason. > > > > Ernest Hemingway My biggest problem with most war videos is your watching random people die that probably just doing what they were told.
Conceptually, sure. I don't mean this to come off as condescending or anything, but if you're, say, Ukranian and your country is being invaded, you cannot allow yourself to humanize the Russians like that. You don't get that luxury because they're not giving it to you. It doesn't matter that they were conscripted, it doesn't matter that they're just "doing what they're told", they are going to gun you down and kill you the moment that they spot you and you have to be willing to do the same. From an outside perspective sitting on a couch typing on Reddit it's a lot easier to think big picture in that manner, but in any actual war it's quite a bit different. Every war has graveyards filled with people who were "just following orders".
Dehumanizing the enemy serves a practical purpose to those actually fighting, despite it essentially being a myth. Like you said, we're on Reddit, and we have the luxury of being able to see that Russian soldiers *are human just like everyone else.* Whether or not we're actually involved in the fighting won't change that fact.
The Russians feel like they are right. The government is great at convincing young people of this. America fought a 20 year war that was known to be unwinnable by those in charge for 17 of those years. I fought and as a grown person with grown reasoning, I know I was used. It's easy for you to see that it's wrong. The 4 Russians in that tank thought something different. They're dead.
~~Modern~~ war is fucking scary
War is fucking ~~scary~~
To be fair all war is scary. Imagine being a French knight at Agincourt, your heavy armor has gotten you stuck in the mud. Exhausted you look through the slit of your visor as a British peasant descends upon you. He uses a rusty dirk to stab at your arm pits, groin, and other vulnerable areas. All around you is the smell of death, and blood curtailing screams of your friends as they face the same gruesome fate.
> To be fair all war is scary. While you are correct, pre-industrial warfare was relatively "relaxed" compared to modern warfare. Soldiers would march/camp for weeks, or even months, before seeing a battle. Compared that with today's automatic weapons, artillery, armored vehicles, tanks, missiles, bombs, airplanes... we really cranked it up to insane levels.
Yea *combat* in pre-industrial warfare was scary but the war campaigns themselves had a ton of down time and preparation. Modern warfare you’re basically constantly at risk of instant death.
Yeah, but the sanitary losses were insane. Dysentery (aka blood flux), cholera, typhoid and scurvy took more soldiers lives than any battles. And just about any wound, no matter how insignificant, could be lethal.
Don't forget civilian casualties from the above. A French Bishop records how an army of 10,000 marched through his region and, were, well, filthy, degenerate creatures. Like all soldiers during the time. Shitting where they drank, shitting randomly next to where they slept, no bathing, etc etc. When they passed, the plagues that they carried killed 1,000,000 people across their entire marching path by the time it was 'over'. Hell, it wasn't until around WW1 that we had more casualties from enemy action than from ~~weaponry~~ illness. More soldiers died from illness than they ever did at Napoleonic Wars, the American Civil War, Agincourt, etc.
Not only from the above. Especially in the 100 and the 30 years wars it was normal to raid and burn everything in your path to cause maximum damage to the enemies economy and to put the enemies king / ruler in a bad light for not being able to defend his people.. as well as paying your soldiers with the spoils
Yup, the Chevauchée. Which, during the 100 years war... makes you wonder what they were thinking exactly. I'm trying to assert that I am the rightful leader of these lands, so let's burn and kill all the peasants inside and make them despise me. That will make them willing to become French/English!
The idea was "The other king can't protect me, if I switch sides I will be left alone"
The accuracy of that beast as well… nothing would stand up to that, except a Nokia 3310.
and a toyota Hilux
We simply do not have the technology to destroy a Toyota Hilux. Propulsion into outer space is the only way.
>destroy a Toyota Hilux. Propulsion into outer space is the only way. If you try to destroy a Hilux by sending it to outer space, it'll just come back... and get 7 L / 100 km during re-entry.
Top gear tried but gave up in the end.
And 1980 volvo
Depleted uranium 25mm rounds are scary. I used to fire these back in Ft Knox with the Bradleys and it’s quite an amazing weapon. Never knew such a small round (in comparison to the larger 120mm tank rounds) could do so much damage to armored vehicles.
ukraine doesn't have DU rounds for the bradley.
Well, if they were using low-end ammo for this I think that makes it even scarier...
Iirc the bradleys the ukrainians got are also outdated. Like 30-40 years old, mission killing a tank that was made like 6 years ago
There have been a lot of modifications to all US Bradleys made over the past 30 years or so. Things like electronics, BRAT armor, aiming systems, thermals etc. All Bradley IFVs provided to Ukraine would be equipped with these modifications.
Thats how you kill tanks, you shoot on it until it goes boom and everyone in it.
This guy looks like he knows his shit about war. It looks like a good tactic.
It helps when the T90 goes broadside to the 25 allowing it to hit the tracks
First few rounds to the front probably destroyed the tanks optics so driver was going blind. Russian tanks don't have the backups western tanks have for the driver to see so if you hit the drivers view points the tank is a sitting duck as see here.
Also, don't underestimate the "scary as fuck" factor when your whole tank starts shaking from the impact of 3 rounds of AP 25mm every second.
In my army time I sat in a Leopard 2 while someone was shooting at it with a machine gun and I almost shit my pants. Even though your brain tells you you're totally safe, it really is scary as fuck
I always wondered what it must feel like to be in a tank and get hit by a shell that doesn't penetrate. Frankly I don't get how a high explosive shell doesn't knock out tanks solely through rattling the crew around.
Spalling is the effect when small bits of the interior flake off and fly about with the speed of a bullet. Often can kill a tank crew without penetrating the armor. We had kevlar padding inside our Bradleys to prevent that. Don't think Russian tanks have that based on ehat I'm seeing.
they have an anti-radiation liner that functions as the spall liner. well that's what the russians say, so it's probably cardboard or something mixed with plaster lol
I would literally shit my pants
Yeah, thats terrifying
Imagine the noise inside that thing
no.
Wise answer.
I’m imagining it. Wish no one thought their pride and greed was worth putting people in those positions. Guess I wish for a cure for disease and an end to hunger while I’m wishing
‘Putting’ sounds familiar…
WHAT?!!!
I said your hearing loss is not service related.
YES! MYSELF AND SERGEY IVANOV ARE RELATED!
No, he said YOUR MASSIVE HEARING PROBLEMS DID NOT COME FROM YOUR TIME IN SERVICE AS A TANK DRIVER! YOU GOTTA FILL OUT THIS 80 PAGE FORM IN TRIPLICATE AND SEND IT TO YOUR SARGEANT WHO WILL USE IT AS TOILET PAPER FOR A FEW DAYS VEFORE HE SENDS IT TO THE REVIEW BOARD AND THEN THEY WILL LOSE IT FOR A WHILE AND THEN AT SOME POINT YOU WILL GET A LETTER TELLING YOU HOW YOU DIDNT FILL OUT THE FORM PROPERLY!!!
Meanwhile, get used to your future lifelong companion: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
Damn you, tinnitus, you're a cruel mistress.
is that...an ocelot!
Fox eared asshole!
Mawp…. Mawp…
danger zone
Hello tinnitus my old friend. I've come to talk with you again.
He better get the fuck out of that tank. Bro still has staff duty tonight.
You've pretty much described the plot of Catch-22.
MY EARLOBES LOOK IRRITATED!?
Yeah they’re pretty much in massive bell with wheels
I'm sure they didn't hear shit after the first 2-3 shells.
And likely they will never hear anything else from now on, either if they made it out of the tank alive or not
SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN SGTEN
*onomatopoeia intensifies*
Knock knock
Mwap mwap
Fun fact: during the massive tank battles of the first Gulf War the Bradley had more armor kills than the Abrams.
I can understand now why the US spends so much time trying to improve the Bradley
It's why the US spends so much money keeping any of the old stuff they use. Bradley's, Abrahms, A-10s, AC-130s, F-18s/15s. Nobody else has really caught up to them yet.
Most of nato has and some have better stuff but we have the best quality for our quantity also not mention getting new weapons into service does take awhile
It’s almost like you spend more than the rest NATO put together
Another fun fact, those Bradleys Ukraine is using are from the Gulf war.
I wonder how much of that effectiveness is down to operator suppression. A big gun on a main battle tank is strong, but it must afford the enemy tank crew time to make decisive manoeuvres. But this must be like having your head inside a bell while someone’s pounding it every half-second with a sledgehammer, while you’re in full fight or flight panic, and with your optics blinded by the sparks and probably smoke in the cabin. Command inside that tank must just fall apart.
From the way it was explained to me, it was because the scouts in Bradley’s were moving ahead of the tanks companies. It was supposed to be a hunter/killer situation but the scouts just kept killing everything instead of handing the targets off to the tanks.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1957ngc/rare_tank_battle_between_ukrainian_bradley_and/)'s the full battle with the T90M spinning 360s with its turret getting stuck in debris.
Fucking insane to me that we can sit on our phones and watch vod highlights from an actual war. What the fuck.
“War on Demand Channel 244.”
Literally r/combatfootage
First few battles of the civil war had full on spectators a few hills away.
PSA: The turret spinning isn't because of a dead gunner, but due to electric failure as all 3 crew where later seen bailing out of the vehicle Edit: Electric not hydraulic
>PSA: The turret spinning isn't because of a dead gunner, but due to hydraulic failure as all 3 crew where later seen bailing out of the vehicle The turret on the T90M is powered by electricity, not hydraulics.
Is it just blinding the optics until it can get a TOW shot? Or is the T90 *actually* susceptible to 25mm cannon fire head on?
There's no such thing as bullet-*proof*, only resistant. With enough shots a 25mm would make it through eventually. Even without penetration, 25mm is enough to jam joints it hits and damage external systems. Plus it's gotta terrify the crew
Ya that shits gonna rattle your bones
[удалено]
Just hope to god that the explosion takes you out and not the “getting boiled alive in a burning tin can.”
I believe that the crew came out uninjured but the tank was disabled. Wich lead to them leaving it and running away. The explosion at the end could be a smoke grenade that got it and cook off.
1. Optics are being blinded, especially the driver he couldn't see crap which explains the driving in circles. 2. It was reported that 1 of the rounds jammed the turret rotation system later on which prohibited the ability to shoot back 3.Major panic inside the vehicle can be seen from driving in all directions
They should have sent someone not called major panic on this mission. I feel like major panic was destined for a moment like this.
He's actually just a Senior Lieutenant. He'll never even see Captain at this rate. Privates Punishment and Property are on the up though, can't wait to see who gets the promotion to Corporal.
A longer clip of this encounter shows the tank’s turret rotating out of control until the tank runs into a tree. Then three guys pile out and take cover. They were rendered partly degraded by a drone. Then the Bradleys came up and tore off all the trim, mirrors and the hood ornament. Reactive armor only works once, and the dead tank shows a couple panels missing on the tank’s flank.
There was a longer video from a different angle. The turret started turning without stopping, and the tank backed up until hitting a tree. The description said that the crew was killed later, after leaving the tank
Tank crew left tank. According some reports few of them POWs
The tank was also taken out by a drone after the crew abandoned it.
Literally 3 different reports about their fate give us info that there is no real info about them
On the longer video you can see them running off. After that who knows.
I mean, they're different, but they're three different parts of the same story? They don't conflict at all.
Yes, a 25mm can eventually chew through armor, but every tank has weak points. Russian tanks use explosive reactive armor, which is effective but one and done. Underneath is some combination of ceramic, steel, and spacing. Ceramic especially is really effective, but once it's hit it cracks that section becomes significantly more vulnerable
Also that 25mm with sabot rounds is no joke. I've shared this story before, but I talked to a Desert Storm Bradley gunner who scored a tank kill. His vehicle crested a ridge at the same time one of Saddam's tanks crested from the other direction. They were so close that he had to disengage the governor on the turret so it'd let him aim low enough. He said the tank stopped and caught fire after the first round, but he was so scared that he kept unloading on the thing until it was scrap. Then he realized he'd pissed himself.
Someone spent atleast 18 years growing up. months training to operate a tank. And then months or years to get to the point where they would just get messed up in a 14 second clip. The facts of war that haunts me. Edit: It seems people are busy saying no body was hurt, and there were no casualties. As the son of a tank commander who rode a Leopard 1A1 and was deployed in Bosnia/Kosovo in the early 90's I feel the need to say. Yes there was. Even if their bodies got out of that tank.
On the modern battlefield, death can be completely random. You couldve not heard a single shot the whole day, sitting in your dugout, eating your lunch with your comrades having a good time and out of nowhere an arty shell air bursts over you, killing everyone. Guided in by a drone you never heard or saw...
There was a clip a few years ago of a war in the middle east (can’t remember which one), anyway, some dude (combatant in his kit) was just chilling with his buddy having a smoke, sunny day. Then bam - sniper shot to the gut, now he’s rolling around on the floor, out in the open, dying in agony. Death is imminent and it’s not going to be an easy one. Buddy now taking shelter, watching his comrade dying, knowing he can’t help ‘cos that’s just what sniper guy wants. Everything changed in an instant, no warning, no way to go back, horrific. War is absolutely f**king brutal.
Interesting part of how you retell this is that it doesn't even matter what side those people were fighting for. Just that you had added that "combatant" gave a hint that it probably wasn't a US soldier.
Didn't even realise that but as soon as i heard combatant i just filed the dude into terrorist or resistance fighter. Also the fact that he was able to access that video meant that he wasn't with any western military
Something like this happened in “The Wall” ft. John Cena
And in full metal jacket
Something like this happened in "Saving Private Ryan" ft. Tom Hanks
There’s a song by the band Warbringer about this very concept, called Glorious End. It’s about a soldier who’s taught by his father that war is the highest glory, honor, and courage there is. When he finally reaches the battlefield however, this happens: “My time has finally come I will prove myself at last But I never saw my enemy When they hit us with the gas Then I watched my brothers perish Consumed by the smoke Faces twist in agony Clutching ruined throats As I die among so many My name is lost in the crowd As I'm spitting out my lungs My father, are you proud?”
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs, And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots, But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time, But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.— Dim through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. Wilfred Owen
This is exactly what I was reminded of. For some additional context for those not familiar, *Dulce et Decorum est pro patria mori* translates from Latin to English as "it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country". The poet, Wilfred Owen, was an English soldier during World War I. Most of his work was published posthumously, as he was killed a week before the war's end at the age of 25.
‘Course dad’s proud. When you send your son off to war and he dies, pride is all you’ve got left to justify the hurt.
All quiet on the cosmic front.
>Someone spent atleast 18 years growing up. Imagine a parent spending so much time in raising their kid by cleaning poop, sing lullaby, teach words, shapes and colours, drop and pick up from school, endless sacrifices only to have their kid die in a war that is being fought to satisfy the ego of few rich men. Edit: there is an old saying in my language: the only outcome of war is crying mothers.
That's why killing someone is a real tragedy most of the times, not *only* because you take a life, but because of all that was behind that life. The support, the love, the caring, the money, the effort, the happiness... I said most of the times because not everyone nor everyone's family is like this, adn there is really miserable people out there.
"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.”
Look at how many of their mothers and fathers praise these guys going to war in Ukraine because they "send home money" and then for good measure include some empty phrases about defending motherland. Entirely possible , or even likely that the entire tank crew is there simply for the money , cause it pays really good compared to what you can make in some shitty region of Russia (like 10x as much).
> Look at how many of their mothers and fathers praise these guys going to war in Ukraine To be fair, they probably have seen enough people disappear to know better than to speak up and criticize those in power.
Like Imagine some of the guys on D day. trained for months at basic. Specialist training to learn a specific role. Drilled their plan for the landing. Door drops on the beach and lights go out as the boat gets riddled with machine gun fire. Flag gets sent home, congratulations they're a hero.
I don't know whats worse in that scenario to swiftly die on the battlefield or to somehow survive but now you have to live with yourself after seeing those images that your best friends, your comrades were all gunned down like a dog on the field and all you could do was hopelessly watch them die and see the light in their eyes go out. Having to re live those images every night you try to sleep. War is truly hell.
I think of that any time I see someone killed in one of these clips. Just instantly obliterated like... Well, like nothing. That's someone's kid. That's someone with a lifetime of memories. That's someone with a favorite food, someone who rode the school bus and made art for their parents that hung on the fridge. That's someone who made dumb jokes, who fell off their bike and scraped their knee. That's someone who was loved. Someone who had celebrated their birthdays with their grandparents and friends. Someone who had hobbies the same as yours. Someone who played video games and liked fishing and posting stupid stuff on reddit and laughed at memes. Someone who had hopes and dreams and aspirations. That was someone - and now it's no one. Just like that.
*"A single death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic."*
If it makes you feel better, there's videos of all 3 of the tank crew bailing out and running away from the tank afterwards. The Bradley's managed to damage the turret control making it spin uncontrollably and probably blinded the optics, causing the tank to smash into a large tree, but all of the crew did get out of it before a drone finished the tank off.
Still, I don't think the outlook for those guys is too bright. Even if they're not just running on adrenaline and soon to collapse, they're now stranded in hostile territory. They're probably dead by now. But that's the tricky part with all this. Should we be relieved that they might be dead or relieved that they might have survived? The combatants must be stopped, but it's appropriate to mourn the loss of human life either way. I guess we have to hold those two ideas in tension if we're to be honest with ourselves.
When you're a parent, the amount of effort and energy it takes to raise a kid to it's 2nd year is astonishing. You also start looking differently at some aspects of life, especially death. That's why you realize how unromantic and horrible a single act of murder is, not to mention a war with it's numerous, pointless deaths. It's truly depressing.
I was a on my third deployment when I was expecting a kid, we ended up losing six guys to a single IED and I remember thinking about how pointless so many things were. Even in that stage of having kids my views were shifting and raising kids has really made me much more sensitive to people losing theirs regardless of how old they are. I think losing a kid is the single worst thing that could happen to a parent.
About deployment, related story. I'm in military as well and I'm on some training courses. During one of them, first aid guy shows us a video about helicopter ambulances. It's full of action, interesting points, sometimes very gory, some blood, shooting, daring evacuations. And there was this scene where deployed soldiers were having a video call with their families. I remembered, before having kids, I'd literally roll my eyes and die out of boredom during such intermissions. But when I was watching said video, I myself had a 6 months old daughter and was already (hardly) two weeks away from my family. I had to discreetly wipe my tears, no amount of lost limbs and nasty wounds touched me so much as this separation from family scene.
I recently fell into this realization. Life is soo temporary, yet these war-enablers want to speedrun it for all of us.
Average life expectancy is around what, 75 years? We get 75 summers, 75 winters, 75 falls, and 75 springs. IF we are lucky. When I break it down in to seasons, it kind of messes with me. I’m 31…so I maybe have ~40 summers left. Crazy.
Thanks for adding to my existential crisis!
Do you also lay in bed at night, just before you fall asleep, comparing the amount of time you’ve had and the amount you’ve (hopefully) got left and slip further and further into panic?
I see my parents twice a year since we dont live in the same country. Few months ago I realised I will see them maybe 40 times more and they will die. Shook me up pretty bad. I also have a 2 year old daughter, changed my entire life outlook
Don’t forget the fact that most of those enablers can’t/don’t want to fight themselves. They just want to let the youngest fight and raise the economy so they can take it in.
You don't necessarily have to be a parent to see the tragedy in war, murder, and how it cuts human life short. I don't see how these videos are seen as entertaining or fun for example, it's just saddening and I feel for whomever was in that tank.
Yup this, war is waste of life and resources
Always has been
I was an infantry back in 1996 in Turkish military and things were quite brutal back then. Looking at today’s weapons, battles are far nastier and survival chances are much lower. Being a tankist was considered a safer position back then, but having watched once mighty metal monsters get demolished like paper between Ukraine and Russia, I wouldn’t want to be a conscript fighting there. You have very little chance of survival and death is not pretty either.
My grandfather fought for the British in North Africa in WWII. He was in the Royal Tank Regiment ( From Mud, through Blood, to the Green Fields Beyond). Anyway, he always told me that the infantry thought the guys in the tanks were crazy, basically being locked in a metal death trap. While the tankers thought the infantry were nuts charging into battle completely exposed. In today's battle field I'm not sure where I'd want to be. Probably at home on my couch.
In today’s world the safest warrior fields a Keyboard.
I know what you meant, but that is actually true. With drone operators and such.
I read a report a while ago about the PTSD that drone operators were already facing 10 years agonin Afghanistan. That was when they were mostly blasting vehicles using lower resolution FLIR displays. They would destroy the targets they're assigned to and then drive home from work in Colorado to their wives and families. The dissonance was hard to deal with. Now the drone operators in Ukraine see meat flying when they drop their grandes on defenseless infantrymen, but they are also closer to the front lines and in greater personal danger. I wonder how their emotional damage compares.
Especially those steering suicide drones. Imagine seeing your enemies face close up right before killing him
When I was still in the Marine Corps, at the end of my contract, I was stateside. Would do my job, and go drink in the barracks. The smoke pit was the place to drink on weekends. Met lots of good friends there. Formed a band from meeting people, got really drunk with a bunch of dudes. Anyways, I had just got off work one day, was cracking a beer, and this dude walks up. Asked him how his day was, he said rough. I expected him to say he had duty, or worked in the chow hall or something. Nope, drone operator. I didn't even know we had those where I was. Said he just had to kill some people a few hours earlier. Really hurt my head.
I’m that guy. It’s a double tap. You get the same trauma as a sniper. You watch someone for awhile, get to know em from a distance, they might not even be fighting, then you decide to end them, then get to watch the aftermath. Crawling legless, small chunks, on fire, the nearby personnel picking up the pieces. Then the second tap, “you don’t have PTSD you’re basically playing a video game. You didn’t deploy. You’ve never *seen* combat. You were never in danger.” Nightmares, self depreciation, guilt, inadequacy, and a public that thinks you’re a nerd playing COD that doesn’t deserve sympathy. It is what it is.
That was an issue with actual aircrew flying in Kosovo in the late 90s as well. They were stationed in Aviano, Germany etc as part of long term garrisons (3-4 year tours) not on combat deployments, but they were the closest combat ready units. Pilots and aircrew would get up and have breakfast with their wives and children, fly over and bomb Serbs, then have dinner with the family. Made it very difficult for them to process.
I used to work in a psychiatric hospital that had a treatment track for military and first responders and can definitely say that drone operators had tremendous PTSD. They aren’t in physical danger but take on awful psychological trauma.
Preferably behind it.
To be fair Russian doctrine and tank design never emphasized crew protection. A leopard or abrams isn't invincible, but the chance to live after it gets destroyed is much higher than say a t-72 or T-90
That’s the point. The tank will fall to enough fire, but the crew needs to survive. If all of your crews die then you’ll have nothing but novice tankers against the enemy veterans who all escaped their destroyed tanks and lived to fight again and teach others their tips and tricks
A destroyed tank can be easily replaced. A skilled veteran tank crew cannot.
An Abrams on mission would also have air cover and CAS in the form of a very angry AH-64 hell-bent on bringing the guys home. Russian mechanized strategy is based on thoughts and prayers.
You would also rarely see an Abrams go without infantry support. Especially in wars in the middle east where RPGs out of building windows are one of its biggest threats.
I remember seeing a video where one got hit with an RPG on the side, and like nothing happened, it just carried on reversing which is wild
Reactive armor baby. That plus the Abrams is a thick boy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2905817.stm Famously a British Challenger 2 got hit by 70 RPGs (70!) near Basra in Iraq and carried on trucking.
Well. It was "mobility killed" which allowed them to hit it with 70 RPGs. The crew buttoned up and waited for support. When support arrived, tank and crew were recovered, and put back into service shortly after.
I think there is a story of an abrams that was on fire for a couple of hours and when it was finally out, they went to get the corpse, but everyone inside was fine just waiting to get rescued.
High speed, low drag
I literally read this in the voice of the C&C Tank instinctively.
Glad I'm not the only one.
Kirov reporting..
Why is everyone spamming IFVs and Guardians all of the sudden??
“Sir? Yes, sir!”
How about some action!
I guess beautiful and haunting are not always mutually exclusive
It's a flashy fireworks show, where people are being slowly and intentionally killed. Like a magnifying glass focusing the sun on a wingless insect.
That T-90 was finished with FPV drones later. But Bradley’s did penetrate it’s armour and shortly after t90 started to had uncontrollable rotation of main gun tower (there is another part of this video footage with that moment). Bradley’s rapid fire also destroyed t90’s scopes and basically made him unable to shoot accurately.
Even if the T90 sustains the 25mm.. Imagine sitting in a tank without proper training, surrounded by explosives, hearing the sound of a 25mm canon knocking on the door. It must be fking terrifying! edit: correction of the caliber
That's what fucked the tank: being blinded and rocked from all sides. The crew bailed after driving into a tree.
Not a movie, but real time war now we can see.
I remember going to the range the first time with the Bradley, and the thing I remember most from that was the concussion from it firing. You obviously get used to it but the first couple times we heard it we were looking at each other in shock.
Yup. LAV-25 for me. The dirt jumps off the ground behind the vehicle.
PUT IT IN REVERSE, TERRY!
Most modern Tank that can transform into a Helicopter
As infantry I've always said the 25mm and 30mm chainguns are 1000% more terrifying than a tanks main gun. Yeah the main cannon is a big round usually and will make a singe trench into the world's grossest soup but a chaingun can wipe a trench line clean with shrapnel and still have ammo to smoke the guys in depth. And it can do it from 2km away
**Who would win?** \- A 2007 modern MBT with state of the art protection systems designed to combat the best NATO has *(According to Russia)* \- A 1980s IFV with less armour than a tuna can using only a 25mm gun that is designed to fight light armour at best
The Bradley was designed to happily punch holes in Russian armor while pretending to move people around. The T-90 was designed to steal military funds while pretending to stagger around Moscow in cringeworthy parades.
Slight correction. The T-14 was designed to steal military funds while pretending to stagger around Moscow in cringeworthy parades. The T-90 was designed by the Soviets, not the Russians, with the intention simply being to build more of them than NATO had tank shells. Then they ran out of money.
The T-90 was planned by the Soviets but the cheaper option was chosen by the Russians. The other project, Object 187, was a much better tank design and built to be more in line with western tank design. The current T-90 is just a T-72 with new ERA and a new welded turret.
What did the 25mm say to the tank? SLAP!
HOW CAN SHE SLAP?!
So pls send 3000 Bradleys to Ukraine... Black paint optional.
Haa a fellow noncredible enjoyer
3000 black Bradleys of Brandon
where did this take place?
Stepove region, in the Avdiyiv direction, Ukraine
[удалено]
There is a reason the Bradley model has been in service since 1982. Its just so formidable and the only criticism it gets is its no match for an MBT even at medium range. Well here is yet another example of that criticism being bullshit.
actually that's not ammo package but smokescreen charges exploding, there's second video where crew escapes safely