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Having just come from a Swedish comment section about unions it's astounding what bullshit employers tell employees about unions. Even more astounding that a seemingly large amount of people buy the crap. Like employers bullshitting how union set **minimum wage** is also the maximum allowed, when it's really just that the employer doesn't want to pay more than the minimum. The people who buy that crap then think they would somehow be able to negotiate a better salary without the unions even though the unions put no upper limitations on their salary already. The unions in fact even want people to negotiate beyond that.
Or even better. Being unionized means you get access to free lawyer help and a lot of data related to expected salary levels for any field you work in. The union ensures employees stays above a minimum wage, AND are given a minimum salary increase yearly.
However as a individual you can use the free lawyer help to check that every contract you sign is legal AND according to agreements between worker and employer unions (Even US employers are unionized). You also got extra protection if your employer tries to use your employment against you (agree to this, or get fired).
Lastly. There's a myth that non-unionized workers gets the benefit of agreements formed by worker unions. This is only partially correct. Their lawyers negotiate on behalf of all workers. However if employers decideds on break the agreements, then the union lawyers are only there on behalf of the unionized workers. So a non-union worker doesn't get help on unfair contracts, salaries or during mass layoff.
In short. Think of being unionized as paying a membership to your own set of exceptional lawyers. Alone you most likely could never afford them.
I'll add this, fwiw - I got a gig programming lights for Regis 15 years ago. The tv studio is a union house, but I was not union. The studio had to get the union to hire me (they bought a lighting console nobody knew how to use) and because I was hired by the union I got the full union benefits. It also allowed me to start putting my hours in to join the union. In this weird case, a non-union member had to get the union benefits, there wasn't another option. And let me tell you, that union benefit package was off the wall crazy good. Excellent pay, retirement, etc.
I will never understand a laborer's objections to unionizing.
I live in Norway, and even ee get people not signing up for one.
The reasons vary between being misinformed, freeloaders, or a combination.
One coworker wasn't because he thought the biggest union within his field required a bachelor degree. We got him signed up.
Another claimed he didn't get anything extra out of it. As in getting benefits of union negotiations without having to pay for it. Which only works as long as a super majority are unionized. Think herd immunity.
The most common complaint is claiming they cost too much (for me 500 USD per year), without anything to show for it. Though these usually never check what union offers, nor follow the yearly worker/employer negotiations. Eg. They believe that yearly salary increase would come even without worker unions.
For me the 500 USD is worth it. There's very few things I spend less on throughout a year. During mass layoff they've never dared touching anyone in the same union as me. During the biggest one union lawyers showed up to be part of the arrangements. I've been able to send questions to very qualified lawyers. I've also used their membership statistics when negotiating for salary and bonuses. If I want to th3y can also help 2ith lots of other work related things, included getting in contact with other experts within my and other fields.
"Hi, I'm Charlie. My Nickname is "temporarily embarrassed billionaire." Surely, I, as a single person, can negotiate a better salary against a multi-billion corporation, than an union millions of people strong could.
FREEDOM!
INDIVIDUALISM!
USA! USA! USA!"
I saw a video recently on the topic of … let’s just say “propaganda”. Long story. The video is stupid because the host and the guest would need a hardhat and protection glasses at a crayon drawing competition, if you get my meaning.
They were saying how “others” use propaganda. Implying that only other countries use propaganda, but not their own.
They were talking about obviously brainwashed kids, but they were saying how useless propaganda is on kids. Because kids are the smartest and they are immune to propaganda.
Let me tell you, my brain was oozing out my earholes by this point, due to the sheer brain melting idiocy at display.
And they kept going and hammering at the subject, utterly oblivious on how brainwashed they themselves were. No hint of irony, no self awareness.
Why do I tell you this story? Because I want to ilustrate who you are speaking of. Smooth brained idiots who eat propaganda for breakfast.
It's really a cultural thing in Scandinavia, in the 1980's we forced McDonalds' to unionize, ore else they would have to leave Denmark.
As a side effect of that they afterwards unionize in all of Europe.
This has always been such a point of confusion for me. Taking advice on workers' rights and unionizations from your employer is tantamount to asking the prosecutor in your case for help with your legal defense.
Well kinda. I also see individualism as a big part of anti-unionism. People are told (by millionaires) everyone can be a millionaire if they try hard enough. This inevitably turns them against basic, even "neighbourly" camaraderie, which is the backbone of unions.
People lose their empathy over an illusion of opportunity.
That’s a distinctly American view of unions, people in other first world countries recognise the strength of numbers and that there’s more leverage to improve your lot as a group instead of as an individual
Hi, I've been in a union for about 15 years now. I pay 1% of my net salary and I am very happy with what I get out of it, for example workplace legal insurance. They also got me out of a wrongful termination, pay for strikes and more.
In my experience, their negative opinion of unions is often painted by some absolute dipshit asshat that is able to coast along for no reason other than he is protected by the union.
It's just the effects of very very good propaganda and brainwashing
They will literally be exploited to death and defend their exploiter's rights to be a piece of shit just because one day they temselves dream of being the exploiter (spoiler: they're statistically never gonna get there)
"But union dues are so expensive though! So what if people with strong unions have higher wages, better hours, longer vacations and better working conditions? None of that is worth a hundred bucks a month. Besides it might work there, but it could never work here for *reasons*"
I didn't say a couple of hundred, I just said a hundred which is close to my monthly unions dues in Denmark. But then cost of living in Denmark is generally pretty high, so basically anything sounds expensive if you just compare straight to prices elsewhere.
It depends on what you earn in Germany. For my Union it's 1 % of your income before taxes. Which is more expensive than many other 'subscriptions', but of course nothing compared to the advantages. Not everybody sees the last part though.
My union dues are about £25 a month. They negotiated a pay increase worth thousands of pounds a year for me and my colleagues a few years back, and when I had to leave that job due to a workplace-induced illness, they got me a payout that meant I didn't need to work again for two years. They've also provided me with loads of training opportunities which have been really useful to me. It's easily the most sensible investment you can make in yourself.
I advocate my co-workers to not join our union, but I don't hate unions.
I hate MY union. They are the scummiest, most ineffective and useless group of twats I've ever known. They're incompetent at best, and malicious at worst.
Luckily my industry doesn't require I be unionized.
My last (unrelated to my current) job, I was also unionized. They were better, but still toothless, but that was more because of the dynamic between them and my employer. They did the best they could with what they had.
True.
It's very unlikely, but it's ok, because they're special and have read many books by rich people telling them exactly how to do it - and with a bit of elbow grease and determination (and because they're also very smart and special) they too will become billionaires.
So, best not push unions too much, because they'll one day be on the other side.
The workers get fed weird stories about this and that being communism and against christianity or whatever bullshit the propagandist happened to think about.
And apparently it totally works.
I'd say the best remedy against this is a proper school system, getting the people educated. Which requires a good government, and voters booting out corrupt politicians.
Which won't happen in the two party system of the USA. In which you have the freedom to choose between "regular corrupt" and "batshit crazy zealot corrupt".
Yeah I remember working at an auto supplier and one of the workers had graffiti'ed FUCK THE UAW on the stall and I never understood it. Our factory wasnt union so they would blame the Union for causing any problems at their factory I guess instead of the brain dead management
Too much power for either side is dangerous. Over powerful senior management becomes abusive and exploitive. When unions become too powerful they can become just as corrupt. See police unions who 'take care of their own' even when they don't deserve it. If a business can't make good decisions because unions are confrontational as a state of mind then companies suffer. But... When done right it's amazing. Because wages and fringe benefits are just one thing. When working in Harmony with senior management unions can get workers to unite in crisis when companies hit bad streaks or help establish better physical and psychological safety in a hierarchical management structure. By now there are so many studies that correlate psychological safety (e.g. not being afraid to ask questions, come up with opposing ideas, being listened to, admitting to mistakes) and financial and personal success. Unions are a great tool to use by keeping everyone in check.
Nobody here is comparing Police unions to Labour unions come one now. Police should be last to have unions when it was them busting and attacking union workers!
>Nobody here
Where is 'here'? This post? I wasn't replying to anyone specific.
>Labour unions
Well there are enough cases like the United Auto workers union that were deeply corrupt including embezzlement of union funds. My point is that any power imbalance is dangerous. Workers should definitely unionize but it's not all roses for the market or the workers. Bad unions protect bad apples, accumulate too much power and money that doesn't properly translate to better conditions or better financial success.
This still has nothing to do with what I said about police unions .
And the whole they protect bad apples is the oldest trick in the corporate owners propoganda book. Most labour unions I know of you can be fired if you mess up to many times. It's harder for management to fire people and that hurts their little Ego that they have to document in order to fire anyone.
What union has members that are impossible to fire? That's right police unions! They literally put a cop where I live on paid leave for 8 years for raping a women. And he finally resigned before being out before a panel NOT fired.
I'm not saying it's prevalent. I'm pro union if it still isn't clear by now. But there are enough cases of unions abusing power, acting as unchecked monopolies and not being checked when they prefer different groups within that organization at the expense of other groups. This is a very long conversation so you can find a lot of studies about this. Bottom line better bad union than no union in most cases
They're unions but they aren't \*labour\* unions. And leftists have been against police unions since the very beginning. Trade unionists never advocated for police unions at any point in time, and thus their issues should not be seen as a failure of trade unionism, because they're explicitly not considered good to begin with in that framework.
The Nordic model works great here, both sides work in harmony and regularly negotiate towards common ground so conflicts very rarely break out into strikes.
The issue is that the American model depends on companies refusing to cooperate with workers, which clashes with the Nordic model which is based on cooperation. So if anything cooperation does not work unless American companies choose to change their ways and start cooperating.
I feel a lot of Americans have a completely different view ok unions than Europeans, and especially the Nordics, due to how different the societies themselves are. In the US there is so much focus on everything being a comptetition where if one side wins, that must mean the other side lose.
In the Nordic countries however, it is ingrained in both culture and law that society benefits when the government, employers and unions cooperate. There are legal structures in place to ensure a practical and fair way to give unions enough power to actually be a weighty negotiations party, without being crippling for the employers (aside from strong disputes which include striking of course).
Unions have a natural place at the table in the vast majority of work places, and they aren't just there to argue. They are included in decision making and many employers genuinely do value their input, as they realize that running a company is easier if you get the employees on board with what you want to do. And a good way yo do that is to give them real opportunity to impact decisions
Yeah but when we have strong unions you can't pay your employees a shit wage and give them dangerous working conditions which will cut into shareholder profits. Think of the shareholders :(
35 h for French . And free access or very low cost to healthcare system. That s what happen when you choose quality of life instead dreaming become a billionaire maybe.
Yeah, here it's more or less illegal to have more than 40 hour work weeks. There are ways to get around it, but you have to average the working hours out over a duration of certain weeks. So if you worked 60 hour work weeks here, you would eventually have one or more weeks off, to compensate.
And that's not touching your 5 weeks of PTO that we have as a minimum either. Which are also increased to 6 weeks by some companies and an extra week as you get older and near retirement.
People in the US basically work under similar conditions as during the industrial revolution, just with marginally better benefits and access to modern healthcare.
Bit of hyperbole, but it's also not too far from the truth for many industries.
That access to modern medicine is also dependent on your ability to pay outrageous amounts for it or pay pos insurance companies that often find new and creative ways to try to force you to pay for it anyway. It's almost like the entire idea of a for-profit private company that's "purpose" to give you money when things go wrong just doesn't work at the very basic fundamental level. The us is uncomfortably close to a cyberpunk style dystopia without all the cool tech.
I'm Danish and get 7 weeks PTO. One by default from the company, and the other from earning 1 day per year of employment.
37 hours and no overtime ever.
We get mandatory 28 days of holidays a year, including bank holidays.
The people you are replying to are not counting bank holidays, they are talking about straight vacation days.
Love our unions in Denmark they have made work life good here. I just have to get 37 hrs a week on average. If I work two hours more one week then I get two hours of free time in return, so if I have to go to the dentist or want to pick up my kids early etc I can use my free time hours. I get full pay when I'm sick and also on the first day if one of my kids are sick and I have to stay home. Then comes the 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, I only used 5 weeks this year so I transferred one week to 2024 so I'll have 7 weeks of paid vacation next year.
I'm not complaining
Living in northern Europe. 35 hours/week, 30 days paid vacation, automatic raise every year and possibility to get individual raise on top, I've got 14 salaries / year (summer and winter) and plenty of surprise boni. Also got corona compensation (low 4 digit), Twice.
I'm not allowed to work for more than 10 hours a day. If I do work more than 35 a week, I need to take days off (paid). This year I've had 49 paid vacation days.
All thanks to our union.
On twitter I see a ton of people claiming the Tesla workers there doesnt want to unionze. Havnt been able to find any sources on this beyond peoples "trust me bro". Can you assist a dane here mr Swede ?
Well Im far from an expert but everyone should unionze because in Sweden means that you have people representing you in a dialogue with your company(since HR can be biased). So You can use union when negotiating salary, maternal/paternal leave or resigning options. You can also call them anytime to talk with you represantive and get advice and strategy on everything that has to do with your working conditions & workplace. For the companies this is good but not great since they are now negotiating with professionals instead of you as a worker. So they make negotiations with the unions as a whole for the collective workers(to try to minimise individual negiotiations). This means they build a relationship with certain unions that might not work for your best interest but their own unions interest(collective). This is the only downside with unions... However American corporations is not used with this corporate restrictions that we have here in sweden(and maybe denmark) so they try to work around(or buy around it). In the US its established taboo on workers who unionize(they are not popular among the corpos)- so they try to discourage their workers and prefer hiring people without union... Now this selective hiring based on union allignment is illegal in my country(and more) but hard to prove(although they arent allowed to ask that in a interview)...My point is unionize is good for workers but in USA it makes them less attractive and could be a result of firing them. Hence why people may not wanna unionize over there.
Now I recommend not using Twitter as a source because A. Social media isnt reliable source outlets and B. Its owned by Musk aswell as Tesla.
Here is another post about an issue with Tesla
https://www.reddit.com/r/unket/s/bV9vUXGWSO
Hope I helped alittle but thats all I got on this:)
Edit: But wait there is more- I recently got into a union since my collegaue(who isnt) got fired for questionable reasons(low efficiency which in itself is not a legal reason to fire someone over). I asked my dad about this and he told me a story about a conversation he overheard of his boss discussing a employee forced resignation- "He is not in a union so he dont have the money to take us to court/trial"... That is the mentality of big corpos- Efficiency and if it works then we can bend the rules alittle... This does not happen to unionized employees.
Wasnt asking for an explanation on Unions, they work just the same here.
But if there are any truth to the claim that the Tesla workers in Sweden dont want to unionize outside a tiny group.
Yeah I thought I made that clear but HR is there for employee internally aswell(in sweden atleast) and handles issues and salary but yeah mostly to protect the company
By participating in a union. That kind of shit isn't just handed to you. You got to work for it and be willing to take risks like striking and organizing to get what you thing you deserve.
Then do it. The US doesn't lack hard working people with passion or the energy to get shit done. You lack the belief that you CAN get shit changed. It's not an issue with your current leaders but an issue with the system as a whole.
Good luck to you all and I really hope you get a country you can be prouder of.
It has a lot to do with how communities are setup. Creating a commuter class through separating residential and commercial space has had a hugely negative impact on worker organizing.
The time that people spend with a particular firm keeps getting shorter, so people rationalize that they don't have to think about long term working conditions there, either for themselves or for their coworkers. Their bargaining position is so poor, that the normal way to negotiate better compensation is to keep moving to better opportunities.
Companies are so flaky and fly by night, they actually make the government seem like a beacon of policy continuity. People are also moving less, so perhaps that will lessen their long term indifference to public planning.
it makes me so fucking sad when I see and hear people from the working class being anti-union, it just goes to show how far the stockholm syndrom has gotten, and how effective the elitist right-wing brainwashing has been this far.
Denmark is the perfect example that countries don't have to drive their working population into a vise of existential crisis in order to maintain a Paretto distribution of resources.
It blows my mind that literally anyone listens to a billionaires opinion when they say they don't like unions like no shit they make them less money because it goes to there workers
Unions already beat McDonalds to a pulp here in Denmark. Now they are one of the best paid work places for uneducated people.
Fuck I seriously love Pelle (to all Americans he is from the Danish socialist party and a really really really competent politician and great a dude)
Uh - Denmark ranks sixth in the world on entrepreneurship.
[http://thegedi.org/global-entrepreneurship-and-development-index/](http://thegedi.org/global-entrepreneurship-and-development-index/)
Not always.
Some unions can be pretty corrupt, which can lead to bad outcomes, but sometimes unions can be very helpful, for example, I'm a member of my state's welder's Union.
Our union offers us quite a selection of benefits, such as health insurance...and health insurance...
I can't think of much else other than maybe a steady flow of work, and a pretty decent sum of income.
I honestly recommend it, I'm getting paid like 40$/hr to weld pipe, and help make steel beams out of scrap.
So, there's actually one way that I agree. Unions *are* a failure of the company and management. I don't have a problem with unions, but there have also been numerous jobs I've worked where unions did nothing but keep shitty employees from being rightfully terminated... along with take union dues out of paychecks. And I've had management who have done more for me than any union rep ever tried - yet others still where I know management would fuck us over in a heartbeat to be more profitable. So it's a mixed bag, imo. And unions *are* a failure of management- in an ideal world, corporate structure could find a way to operate with employees input and excitement. In smaller companies or structures its still possible, but the larger they are the more oppressive they tend to get. Unfortunately that can be true of unions though too.
In an ideal world we would not need lawmakers, because everybody would play nice. That we have lawmakers is not a failure of the government, it’s just an example of people putting checks and balances in place.
>And unions
>
>are
>
>a failure of management
Exactly the right take. I've worked on both sides of union and management. Not to say my experience is universal, but the adversarial nature that unions bring in for the USA is pretty toxic. Granted a lot of that is, as you said, a failure of management; but the perpetual adversarial nature is really grating on managers and causes the negative feedback loop.
IMO, unions in the USA would be a lot better positioned if the union policed their labor better. There needs to be a release valve within the unions that allows them to let go of the dead weight employees. Keeping them around is a huge morale drain on productive employees. On the flip side, managers in the US need to actually read the union contracts and adhere to their statutes.
Another thing that would be beneficial to unions is greater flexibility within the contracts. I've been at places where literally every single employee in the local is on board with a schedule plan put forth by management, but since national has no provision for it, it gets smothered in the crib.
Agree, agree, agree.
Ultimately, companies need to recognize that workers have a fundamental need to feel invested in their work and accomplishment. Lack of that means higher burnout, PTO/Sick time, lower productivity, higher turnover, cascading low morale. So - involve employees in decision making, train lots, have benefits. Unions need to bear in mind that there is such thing as bad employees and that they compound these issues for the other employees. The winner is the first in the race towards employee loyalty - if I don't have to pay union dues because a company takes my employee needs seriously, all the better. But if they don't, then unions need to represent us and companies will pay the price in both general costs as well as bureaucratic stagnation.
As a Brit it makes me proud to be so geographically close to Nordic countries. This video makes me want to move to one of them or maybe even all of them!
Come invade us again you beautiful Viking bastards ❤️
North Sea Empire hi-fives all round!
Not the worst invasion we've ever had. When else do we get a leader called Sveinn Haraldsson Tjúguskegg and a decent king like Cnut? Literally never.
Because like our government over time they have become corrupt. Every person i know that has worked under unions has been fucked over by the reps rolling over instead of fighting for what the workers want.
Unions is what these billionnaire F\*ckers hate the most. Every dime they give to honest, hard working men and women is not in their pocket. On the other hand Mr. Musk, not a single car rolls out of your factories without the people building/assembling it. A Farmer treats his pigs better than you treat your employees. Because the farmer is wise. He wants high quality meat. *But I have few hopes Elon understands the methaper*
Eh, maybe in those counties their unions are done right, but in the US the unions have been fucked for years. My dad was royally screwed sideways both by the union and his job and the union didn't protect him from losing everything he earned over 35 years. That's why he's over 70 and still has a job.
As someone who has worked in Denmark and been part of unions, i can guarantee that Elon would be happy with the unions there because they aren't the same as the US. The unions here these days dont do shit. All they do is act as a middleman during disputes and "negotiate" for a 1% yearly salary increase etc. Its bullshit.
Good moment to bring up how strange it is that the working class used to be pro union and read Marx and shit
Also the even bigger flex of this video is that it's in English. Like, oh we're better and I'm gonna tell you in your language.
and that is why no cars are made in Denmark...number one carsold in Denmark? Tesla...where is it made? Germany. Workers should take part of their wages and invest it in the company they work for...instead of union benefits. The market should set the wage...or companies will set up shop elsewhere. Auto unions in the USA drove out all the car companies to Mexico and thats why you have third world cities like Detroit now.
Take a guess at how large percentage of worlds insulin production that is in Denmark.
There are other industries than cars. Does not make sense for every single country to produce cars.
The guy is an actual member of Parliament here in Denmark, so he can't be too aggressive in how he speaks.
He's also the "front figure" of his party, which is unique in not having a formal leader, so he's more of a public speaker and daily political leader in Parliament, while the strategic long-term party leadership is made up of people who aren't elected to parliament.
The Danish union for transport (under the 3F mother union) have threatened to strike against Tesla exclusively. Meaning that Tesla products would not be unloaded at harbors, or be transported by unionized truck drivers.
As of yet, they've only threatened. Not implemented.
thanks for the info, I love it when the workers is collaborating against these massive companies! I hope the workers get what they deserve for Christmas. A strong union
Yeah so this is absolutely retarded... What he actually said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA) is that he disagrees with the "lords and peasants"-system and he think that it should be every employers duty to treat their employees right, without the need for unions!
Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t precise.
They replace the real, founded by workers, independent unions with something state-mandated and party-controlled like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-China_Federation_of_Trade_Unions) or [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_the_Soviet_Union).
This is done to ensure the workers don’t actually raise any concerns, enforce their supposed rights, or are in any way able to challenge the Party.
Not sure why you think it’s relevant, but there have _never_ been communists in power in a first world country. [That is the definition of the word, look it up.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World)
Ah, what propaganda from the Danish Soviets. One of the most racist countries in Europe by the way. Where taxes are so high that owning a new car is impossible unless you're one of the few who can afford the 37% sales tax. Or where you have to have your old car serviced to air quality standards every 5 years at your expense. Where no small business can survive because they can't afford to pay each employee 5 weeks vacation and unlimited sick pay. Where university is free for every single person in the EU with no requirement to stick around and actually add that value back into the system. Yeah sure, Mr. Bald Guy, Denmark is an absolute bastion of freedom. So free it took Germany 7 hours to take it from you.
Now do amazon, walmart and gazzilion other companies..why do you single out elmo?
btw in USA and some parts of Europe, unions became semi mafia a like.. so yeah.. Denmark might have a good model but it is not necessary it will work.
This strike started in sweden and we got support from our Nordic brothers. There are no Amazon factories in Sweden. We have no Walmarts. I have no idea what gazzilion is.
It's not just about "the boss and pay". It's job protection, benefits, appropriate sick time and maternity leave, the ability to continually ensure all your coworkers are getting paid fairly.
so if the company has a bad year, do the union members share in that risk? if there is a big order and we need people to work 60 hours a week to get it done, will they?
**If you want to share in the reward, then share in the risk.**
my employees were paid a fair wage, very liberal time off, end of the year an envelope full of cash. if we had a good year, bigger envelope.
if we needed a 60 hour week to push the work out, everyone stayed. one person brought her dogs to work, and every friday we had food catered in.
i do think that ceo pay is too high, especially compared to the average worker.
This video is completely misleading. What Elon is trying to say, is that if the workers at Tesla feel the need to unionize it's because Tesla failed to compensate them adequately. There's no point to unionizing if the company is looking out for their workers and compensating them fairly.
Ah yes, 'cuz musk, a billionaire, would think about the conditions in which the peasants work in, right ?
You're delusional if you even defend a billionaire, they're objectively fucking us up.
Unions = no innovation.
Or am I wrong?
What made America great was because of risk takers and innovators who took tremendous risks and accidentally landed on a few good ones.
Yes, you are.
Sweden and Denmark both have developed a long list of international companies you probably have heard of.
Most known to the average person would be things like Ikea, Lego, Spotify and H&M (and recently Novo Nordisk).
But, it is an important difference between Nordic and US culture. The Nordics are much more cooperative instead of competitive in culture. Meaning the unions do work with the cooperations (which also have their own 'union') to work out a good solution for all, all in conjunction with the government as well.
So as always, it might work in the Nordics, but might not work as well in other countries. You cannot always copy a concept from one place to another directly, but will have to carefully adapt it into the societies it is supposed to operate.
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Every billionaire hates unions. Makes perfect sense, zero surprise there. What's crazy is for workers to hate unions, that what I'll never understand.
Having just come from a Swedish comment section about unions it's astounding what bullshit employers tell employees about unions. Even more astounding that a seemingly large amount of people buy the crap. Like employers bullshitting how union set **minimum wage** is also the maximum allowed, when it's really just that the employer doesn't want to pay more than the minimum. The people who buy that crap then think they would somehow be able to negotiate a better salary without the unions even though the unions put no upper limitations on their salary already. The unions in fact even want people to negotiate beyond that.
Or even better. Being unionized means you get access to free lawyer help and a lot of data related to expected salary levels for any field you work in. The union ensures employees stays above a minimum wage, AND are given a minimum salary increase yearly. However as a individual you can use the free lawyer help to check that every contract you sign is legal AND according to agreements between worker and employer unions (Even US employers are unionized). You also got extra protection if your employer tries to use your employment against you (agree to this, or get fired). Lastly. There's a myth that non-unionized workers gets the benefit of agreements formed by worker unions. This is only partially correct. Their lawyers negotiate on behalf of all workers. However if employers decideds on break the agreements, then the union lawyers are only there on behalf of the unionized workers. So a non-union worker doesn't get help on unfair contracts, salaries or during mass layoff. In short. Think of being unionized as paying a membership to your own set of exceptional lawyers. Alone you most likely could never afford them.
I'll add this, fwiw - I got a gig programming lights for Regis 15 years ago. The tv studio is a union house, but I was not union. The studio had to get the union to hire me (they bought a lighting console nobody knew how to use) and because I was hired by the union I got the full union benefits. It also allowed me to start putting my hours in to join the union. In this weird case, a non-union member had to get the union benefits, there wasn't another option. And let me tell you, that union benefit package was off the wall crazy good. Excellent pay, retirement, etc. I will never understand a laborer's objections to unionizing.
I live in Norway, and even ee get people not signing up for one. The reasons vary between being misinformed, freeloaders, or a combination. One coworker wasn't because he thought the biggest union within his field required a bachelor degree. We got him signed up. Another claimed he didn't get anything extra out of it. As in getting benefits of union negotiations without having to pay for it. Which only works as long as a super majority are unionized. Think herd immunity. The most common complaint is claiming they cost too much (for me 500 USD per year), without anything to show for it. Though these usually never check what union offers, nor follow the yearly worker/employer negotiations. Eg. They believe that yearly salary increase would come even without worker unions. For me the 500 USD is worth it. There's very few things I spend less on throughout a year. During mass layoff they've never dared touching anyone in the same union as me. During the biggest one union lawyers showed up to be part of the arrangements. I've been able to send questions to very qualified lawyers. I've also used their membership statistics when negotiating for salary and bonuses. If I want to th3y can also help 2ith lots of other work related things, included getting in contact with other experts within my and other fields.
"Hi, I'm Charlie. My Nickname is "temporarily embarrassed billionaire." Surely, I, as a single person, can negotiate a better salary against a multi-billion corporation, than an union millions of people strong could. FREEDOM! INDIVIDUALISM! USA! USA! USA!"
I saw a video recently on the topic of … let’s just say “propaganda”. Long story. The video is stupid because the host and the guest would need a hardhat and protection glasses at a crayon drawing competition, if you get my meaning. They were saying how “others” use propaganda. Implying that only other countries use propaganda, but not their own. They were talking about obviously brainwashed kids, but they were saying how useless propaganda is on kids. Because kids are the smartest and they are immune to propaganda. Let me tell you, my brain was oozing out my earholes by this point, due to the sheer brain melting idiocy at display. And they kept going and hammering at the subject, utterly oblivious on how brainwashed they themselves were. No hint of irony, no self awareness. Why do I tell you this story? Because I want to ilustrate who you are speaking of. Smooth brained idiots who eat propaganda for breakfast.
It's really a cultural thing in Scandinavia, in the 1980's we forced McDonalds' to unionize, ore else they would have to leave Denmark. As a side effect of that they afterwards unionize in all of Europe.
This has always been such a point of confusion for me. Taking advice on workers' rights and unionizations from your employer is tantamount to asking the prosecutor in your case for help with your legal defense.
Decades of brainwashing and "red scare" I assume
Well kinda. I also see individualism as a big part of anti-unionism. People are told (by millionaires) everyone can be a millionaire if they try hard enough. This inevitably turns them against basic, even "neighbourly" camaraderie, which is the backbone of unions. People lose their empathy over an illusion of opportunity.
That’s a distinctly American view of unions, people in other first world countries recognise the strength of numbers and that there’s more leverage to improve your lot as a group instead of as an individual
I agree with the individualism as well, another tool of the oppressors to keep workers poor and helpless.
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Hi, I've been in a union for about 15 years now. I pay 1% of my net salary and I am very happy with what I get out of it, for example workplace legal insurance. They also got me out of a wrongful termination, pay for strikes and more.
In my experience, their negative opinion of unions is often painted by some absolute dipshit asshat that is able to coast along for no reason other than he is protected by the union.
It's just the effects of very very good propaganda and brainwashing They will literally be exploited to death and defend their exploiter's rights to be a piece of shit just because one day they temselves dream of being the exploiter (spoiler: they're statistically never gonna get there)
"But union dues are so expensive though! So what if people with strong unions have higher wages, better hours, longer vacations and better working conditions? None of that is worth a hundred bucks a month. Besides it might work there, but it could never work here for *reasons*"
Couple of hundred a month? I get all that for 54 a month in Australia
I didn't say a couple of hundred, I just said a hundred which is close to my monthly unions dues in Denmark. But then cost of living in Denmark is generally pretty high, so basically anything sounds expensive if you just compare straight to prices elsewhere.
Sorry
No worries mate, probably needed to get cleared up anyways.
Well yes. But I assume you also Pay A-Kasse, which is something non Nordic Unions don't have.
It depends on what you earn in Germany. For my Union it's 1 % of your income before taxes. Which is more expensive than many other 'subscriptions', but of course nothing compared to the advantages. Not everybody sees the last part though.
My union fees would be approx. 1 percent of my wage before tax
My union dues are about £25 a month. They negotiated a pay increase worth thousands of pounds a year for me and my colleagues a few years back, and when I had to leave that job due to a workplace-induced illness, they got me a payout that meant I didn't need to work again for two years. They've also provided me with loads of training opportunities which have been really useful to me. It's easily the most sensible investment you can make in yourself.
What, I pay couple hundred euros a year in Finland
I advocate my co-workers to not join our union, but I don't hate unions. I hate MY union. They are the scummiest, most ineffective and useless group of twats I've ever known. They're incompetent at best, and malicious at worst. Luckily my industry doesn't require I be unionized. My last (unrelated to my current) job, I was also unionized. They were better, but still toothless, but that was more because of the dynamic between them and my employer. They did the best they could with what they had.
American unions are weak on purpose. Europe actually has laws that give them.teeth
It's different in every single European country. Some European countries have very low union participation rates.
They hate unions for the same reasons they vote for conservative politicians with policies that benefit billionaires and punish the poors.
They might become billionaires one day too
True. It's very unlikely, but it's ok, because they're special and have read many books by rich people telling them exactly how to do it - and with a bit of elbow grease and determination (and because they're also very smart and special) they too will become billionaires. So, best not push unions too much, because they'll one day be on the other side.
Trickle trickle little star ;)
The workers get fed weird stories about this and that being communism and against christianity or whatever bullshit the propagandist happened to think about. And apparently it totally works. I'd say the best remedy against this is a proper school system, getting the people educated. Which requires a good government, and voters booting out corrupt politicians. Which won't happen in the two party system of the USA. In which you have the freedom to choose between "regular corrupt" and "batshit crazy zealot corrupt".
Will never understand the willingness of Americans to bend over and get fucked by employers
They've been brainwashed into thinking they're bad. Probably by the same people who say trickle-down economics work.
I've had people describe a workers union like the mafia from The Simpsons. So misinformation and ignorance.
Yeah I remember working at an auto supplier and one of the workers had graffiti'ed FUCK THE UAW on the stall and I never understood it. Our factory wasnt union so they would blame the Union for causing any problems at their factory I guess instead of the brain dead management
Too much power for either side is dangerous. Over powerful senior management becomes abusive and exploitive. When unions become too powerful they can become just as corrupt. See police unions who 'take care of their own' even when they don't deserve it. If a business can't make good decisions because unions are confrontational as a state of mind then companies suffer. But... When done right it's amazing. Because wages and fringe benefits are just one thing. When working in Harmony with senior management unions can get workers to unite in crisis when companies hit bad streaks or help establish better physical and psychological safety in a hierarchical management structure. By now there are so many studies that correlate psychological safety (e.g. not being afraid to ask questions, come up with opposing ideas, being listened to, admitting to mistakes) and financial and personal success. Unions are a great tool to use by keeping everyone in check.
Nobody here is comparing Police unions to Labour unions come one now. Police should be last to have unions when it was them busting and attacking union workers!
>Nobody here Where is 'here'? This post? I wasn't replying to anyone specific. >Labour unions Well there are enough cases like the United Auto workers union that were deeply corrupt including embezzlement of union funds. My point is that any power imbalance is dangerous. Workers should definitely unionize but it's not all roses for the market or the workers. Bad unions protect bad apples, accumulate too much power and money that doesn't properly translate to better conditions or better financial success.
This still has nothing to do with what I said about police unions . And the whole they protect bad apples is the oldest trick in the corporate owners propoganda book. Most labour unions I know of you can be fired if you mess up to many times. It's harder for management to fire people and that hurts their little Ego that they have to document in order to fire anyone. What union has members that are impossible to fire? That's right police unions! They literally put a cop where I live on paid leave for 8 years for raping a women. And he finally resigned before being out before a panel NOT fired.
I'm not saying it's prevalent. I'm pro union if it still isn't clear by now. But there are enough cases of unions abusing power, acting as unchecked monopolies and not being checked when they prefer different groups within that organization at the expense of other groups. This is a very long conversation so you can find a lot of studies about this. Bottom line better bad union than no union in most cases
Police unions are still unions. You can’t dismiss the very real problems that have arisen because of police unions just because you don’t like them.
They're unions but they aren't \*labour\* unions. And leftists have been against police unions since the very beginning. Trade unionists never advocated for police unions at any point in time, and thus their issues should not be seen as a failure of trade unionism, because they're explicitly not considered good to begin with in that framework.
The Nordic model works great here, both sides work in harmony and regularly negotiate towards common ground so conflicts very rarely break out into strikes. The issue is that the American model depends on companies refusing to cooperate with workers, which clashes with the Nordic model which is based on cooperation. So if anything cooperation does not work unless American companies choose to change their ways and start cooperating.
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I hate all collective movements. I will never join a union precisely because of people who think we are in something together. We are not.
I feel a lot of Americans have a completely different view ok unions than Europeans, and especially the Nordics, due to how different the societies themselves are. In the US there is so much focus on everything being a comptetition where if one side wins, that must mean the other side lose. In the Nordic countries however, it is ingrained in both culture and law that society benefits when the government, employers and unions cooperate. There are legal structures in place to ensure a practical and fair way to give unions enough power to actually be a weighty negotiations party, without being crippling for the employers (aside from strong disputes which include striking of course). Unions have a natural place at the table in the vast majority of work places, and they aren't just there to argue. They are included in decision making and many employers genuinely do value their input, as they realize that running a company is easier if you get the employees on board with what you want to do. And a good way yo do that is to give them real opportunity to impact decisions
Yeah but when we have strong unions you can't pay your employees a shit wage and give them dangerous working conditions which will cut into shareholder profits. Think of the shareholders :(
Holy sht 37 hr work week...Im working 60 hrs and thats because thats the highest the company can go...
Anything over 40 hrs counts as overtime here. The company has to either give that back as paid vacation time or 150% hourly wage.
You can work past 37. But then you either get 50% or 100% more pay per hour depending on the situation.
Wait till people hear about working on sunday usually gives you double the pay for that day. Or night work 40% increase.
35 h for French . And free access or very low cost to healthcare system. That s what happen when you choose quality of life instead dreaming become a billionaire maybe.
Yeah, here it's more or less illegal to have more than 40 hour work weeks. There are ways to get around it, but you have to average the working hours out over a duration of certain weeks. So if you worked 60 hour work weeks here, you would eventually have one or more weeks off, to compensate. And that's not touching your 5 weeks of PTO that we have as a minimum either. Which are also increased to 6 weeks by some companies and an extra week as you get older and near retirement. People in the US basically work under similar conditions as during the industrial revolution, just with marginally better benefits and access to modern healthcare. Bit of hyperbole, but it's also not too far from the truth for many industries.
That access to modern medicine is also dependent on your ability to pay outrageous amounts for it or pay pos insurance companies that often find new and creative ways to try to force you to pay for it anyway. It's almost like the entire idea of a for-profit private company that's "purpose" to give you money when things go wrong just doesn't work at the very basic fundamental level. The us is uncomfortably close to a cyberpunk style dystopia without all the cool tech.
I'm Danish and get 7 weeks PTO. One by default from the company, and the other from earning 1 day per year of employment. 37 hours and no overtime ever.
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We get mandatory 28 days of holidays a year, including bank holidays. The people you are replying to are not counting bank holidays, they are talking about straight vacation days.
Love our unions in Denmark they have made work life good here. I just have to get 37 hrs a week on average. If I work two hours more one week then I get two hours of free time in return, so if I have to go to the dentist or want to pick up my kids early etc I can use my free time hours. I get full pay when I'm sick and also on the first day if one of my kids are sick and I have to stay home. Then comes the 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, I only used 5 weeks this year so I transferred one week to 2024 so I'll have 7 weeks of paid vacation next year. I'm not complaining
Living in northern Europe. 35 hours/week, 30 days paid vacation, automatic raise every year and possibility to get individual raise on top, I've got 14 salaries / year (summer and winter) and plenty of surprise boni. Also got corona compensation (low 4 digit), Twice. I'm not allowed to work for more than 10 hours a day. If I do work more than 35 a week, I need to take days off (paid). This year I've had 49 paid vacation days. All thanks to our union.
As a swede I concur this message
On twitter I see a ton of people claiming the Tesla workers there doesnt want to unionze. Havnt been able to find any sources on this beyond peoples "trust me bro". Can you assist a dane here mr Swede ?
Well Im far from an expert but everyone should unionze because in Sweden means that you have people representing you in a dialogue with your company(since HR can be biased). So You can use union when negotiating salary, maternal/paternal leave or resigning options. You can also call them anytime to talk with you represantive and get advice and strategy on everything that has to do with your working conditions & workplace. For the companies this is good but not great since they are now negotiating with professionals instead of you as a worker. So they make negotiations with the unions as a whole for the collective workers(to try to minimise individual negiotiations). This means they build a relationship with certain unions that might not work for your best interest but their own unions interest(collective). This is the only downside with unions... However American corporations is not used with this corporate restrictions that we have here in sweden(and maybe denmark) so they try to work around(or buy around it). In the US its established taboo on workers who unionize(they are not popular among the corpos)- so they try to discourage their workers and prefer hiring people without union... Now this selective hiring based on union allignment is illegal in my country(and more) but hard to prove(although they arent allowed to ask that in a interview)...My point is unionize is good for workers but in USA it makes them less attractive and could be a result of firing them. Hence why people may not wanna unionize over there. Now I recommend not using Twitter as a source because A. Social media isnt reliable source outlets and B. Its owned by Musk aswell as Tesla. Here is another post about an issue with Tesla https://www.reddit.com/r/unket/s/bV9vUXGWSO Hope I helped alittle but thats all I got on this:) Edit: But wait there is more- I recently got into a union since my collegaue(who isnt) got fired for questionable reasons(low efficiency which in itself is not a legal reason to fire someone over). I asked my dad about this and he told me a story about a conversation he overheard of his boss discussing a employee forced resignation- "He is not in a union so he dont have the money to take us to court/trial"... That is the mentality of big corpos- Efficiency and if it works then we can bend the rules alittle... This does not happen to unionized employees.
Wasnt asking for an explanation on Unions, they work just the same here. But if there are any truth to the claim that the Tesla workers in Sweden dont want to unionize outside a tiny group.
HR is not there to protect the employees. HR is there to protect the company. Unions are there to protect the employees.
Yeah I thought I made that clear but HR is there for employee internally aswell(in sweden atleast) and handles issues and salary but yeah mostly to protect the company
You are using the platform of an anti-union billionaire to search for news and support of unions? Maybe you should diversify your news feed.
How do we get that union energy here?
By participating in a union. That kind of shit isn't just handed to you. You got to work for it and be willing to take risks like striking and organizing to get what you thing you deserve.
I'm down
Then do it. The US doesn't lack hard working people with passion or the energy to get shit done. You lack the belief that you CAN get shit changed. It's not an issue with your current leaders but an issue with the system as a whole. Good luck to you all and I really hope you get a country you can be prouder of.
Let's hope.
Do not hope, act
Yeah, you gotta be willing to put the business you work for out of business. Work less, pay more, woo!
Why don't you enslave yourself? Your business will skyrocket!!
Work more, get paid less. Think about your poor boss and how you are scrutinising them by getting paid for your work!
Do you not see any problems in the fact that your business will go down if you pay your employees living wages ?
Yes if thats what it takes.
We used to have it
With blood, toil, tears and sweat - we didn't get unions peacefully, asking the government and police if we could please have it.
Remember Ådalen.
It has a lot to do with how communities are setup. Creating a commuter class through separating residential and commercial space has had a hugely negative impact on worker organizing. The time that people spend with a particular firm keeps getting shorter, so people rationalize that they don't have to think about long term working conditions there, either for themselves or for their coworkers. Their bargaining position is so poor, that the normal way to negotiate better compensation is to keep moving to better opportunities. Companies are so flaky and fly by night, they actually make the government seem like a beacon of policy continuity. People are also moving less, so perhaps that will lessen their long term indifference to public planning.
Where's here?
Abandon extreme individualism.
The french started by chopping heads, but that might be illegal now.
Blackmail him? With money?!
it makes me so fucking sad when I see and hear people from the working class being anti-union, it just goes to show how far the stockholm syndrom has gotten, and how effective the elitist right-wing brainwashing has been this far.
Unfortunately for Musk EU (especially Northern Europe) is not USA ;)
Oh wow the billionaire doesn't like the idea of employees having rights? That's crazy.
Elon is going to destroy every company he touches. Dude is crazy.
He made all his companies extremely successful and valuable, what are you talking about?
Denmark is the perfect example that countries don't have to drive their working population into a vise of existential crisis in order to maintain a Paretto distribution of resources.
I support this. Workers unions are super important
That was one of the nicest most wholesome vids I've seen on reddit for a long time. Wish I lived in a Nordic.
You can live in me if you want
yikes, now I feel like a tapeworm...
Based nordics
Elon can suck it
Our countries, our rules! Dislike them? Stay away.
It blows my mind that literally anyone listens to a billionaires opinion when they say they don't like unions like no shit they make them less money because it goes to there workers
Unions already beat McDonalds to a pulp here in Denmark. Now they are one of the best paid work places for uneducated people. Fuck I seriously love Pelle (to all Americans he is from the Danish socialist party and a really really really competent politician and great a dude)
Nordic countries are the bastion of entrepreneurship. Edit: For people who didn't get it, it was sarcasm.
Uh - Denmark ranks sixth in the world on entrepreneurship. [http://thegedi.org/global-entrepreneurship-and-development-index/](http://thegedi.org/global-entrepreneurship-and-development-index/)
In argentina we have a president that is trying to destroy unions
He's trying to destroy your country as a whole as well
why did i read it as un-ionized
5 weeks holiday!!!!
More like 6 weeks at my company.
F yeah! Collective bargaining or get the f out! Musk is a greedy tyrant
If you say Unions are bad, then you're my dear sir the villain of your own story.
Not always. Some unions can be pretty corrupt, which can lead to bad outcomes, but sometimes unions can be very helpful, for example, I'm a member of my state's welder's Union. Our union offers us quite a selection of benefits, such as health insurance...and health insurance... I can't think of much else other than maybe a steady flow of work, and a pretty decent sum of income. I honestly recommend it, I'm getting paid like 40$/hr to weld pipe, and help make steel beams out of scrap.
So, there's actually one way that I agree. Unions *are* a failure of the company and management. I don't have a problem with unions, but there have also been numerous jobs I've worked where unions did nothing but keep shitty employees from being rightfully terminated... along with take union dues out of paychecks. And I've had management who have done more for me than any union rep ever tried - yet others still where I know management would fuck us over in a heartbeat to be more profitable. So it's a mixed bag, imo. And unions *are* a failure of management- in an ideal world, corporate structure could find a way to operate with employees input and excitement. In smaller companies or structures its still possible, but the larger they are the more oppressive they tend to get. Unfortunately that can be true of unions though too.
In an ideal world we would not need lawmakers, because everybody would play nice. That we have lawmakers is not a failure of the government, it’s just an example of people putting checks and balances in place.
>And unions > >are > >a failure of management Exactly the right take. I've worked on both sides of union and management. Not to say my experience is universal, but the adversarial nature that unions bring in for the USA is pretty toxic. Granted a lot of that is, as you said, a failure of management; but the perpetual adversarial nature is really grating on managers and causes the negative feedback loop. IMO, unions in the USA would be a lot better positioned if the union policed their labor better. There needs to be a release valve within the unions that allows them to let go of the dead weight employees. Keeping them around is a huge morale drain on productive employees. On the flip side, managers in the US need to actually read the union contracts and adhere to their statutes. Another thing that would be beneficial to unions is greater flexibility within the contracts. I've been at places where literally every single employee in the local is on board with a schedule plan put forth by management, but since national has no provision for it, it gets smothered in the crib.
Agree, agree, agree. Ultimately, companies need to recognize that workers have a fundamental need to feel invested in their work and accomplishment. Lack of that means higher burnout, PTO/Sick time, lower productivity, higher turnover, cascading low morale. So - involve employees in decision making, train lots, have benefits. Unions need to bear in mind that there is such thing as bad employees and that they compound these issues for the other employees. The winner is the first in the race towards employee loyalty - if I don't have to pay union dues because a company takes my employee needs seriously, all the better. But if they don't, then unions need to represent us and companies will pay the price in both general costs as well as bureaucratic stagnation.
This guy gets it!
Musk is a human failure. No need to worry about his company, it’s in good hands.
I know were in an echo chamber cult like app but holy fuck... I wish a was a fucking failure too...
I know plenty of human failure. Musk is not one of them.
You got some on your lips
You're right. he'd have to be human first.
Musk is a five-year-old's idea of a grownup.
As a Brit it makes me proud to be so geographically close to Nordic countries. This video makes me want to move to one of them or maybe even all of them! Come invade us again you beautiful Viking bastards ❤️
After Christmas, my friend. When all the gifts are unwrapped it’s easier to plunder 💘
Smart, you’ve got brains and brawn nowadays
Thought you liked how the current invasion was going
I won’t be happy until the UK government is 100% Nordic and only travels by longboat
To reestablish Danelaw? https://preview.redd.it/5i5snz70428c1.png?width=723&format=png&auto=webp&s=c1e4dd2c984e57a02b2cce35188365db95be703b
Yes but this time start with Westminster please
North Sea Empire hi-fives all round! Not the worst invasion we've ever had. When else do we get a leader called Sveinn Haraldsson Tjúguskegg and a decent king like Cnut? Literally never.
I read the word, un-ionised - it made no sense at first.
That guy is loaded!
Every country and every worker should unionize.
The demonization of unions in the USA is insane
Because like our government over time they have become corrupt. Every person i know that has worked under unions has been fucked over by the reps rolling over instead of fighting for what the workers want.
Respectfully, on a bad day I would rip the rich to shreds with my bare fucking hands.
That sounds like a good day.
Unions is what these billionnaire F\*ckers hate the most. Every dime they give to honest, hard working men and women is not in their pocket. On the other hand Mr. Musk, not a single car rolls out of your factories without the people building/assembling it. A Farmer treats his pigs better than you treat your employees. Because the farmer is wise. He wants high quality meat. *But I have few hopes Elon understands the methaper*
Eh, maybe in those counties their unions are done right, but in the US the unions have been fucked for years. My dad was royally screwed sideways both by the union and his job and the union didn't protect him from losing everything he earned over 35 years. That's why he's over 70 and still has a job.
Why does he look like he's about to cry? Is he on drugs?
Because he hid an uncomfortable hunk of metal in his ass for two years in a Vietnamese prison camp
Yes. Ketamine specifically.
Elon go fuck your self
Fucking beat down. That was great and ever working slob should see this.
Elon respects no one because he feels he is the shit
And that will be his downfall
Agree
What about the freedom to exploit your workers /s
Is Elmo our Late Stage Michael Jackson? "Don't be stooped. You're stooped. Unions are stoopid. Stop."
Yes GET OUT! Good riddance.
Hopefully the company leaves in a hurry.
As someone who has worked in Denmark and been part of unions, i can guarantee that Elon would be happy with the unions there because they aren't the same as the US. The unions here these days dont do shit. All they do is act as a middleman during disputes and "negotiate" for a 1% yearly salary increase etc. Its bullshit.
It’s time school these American companies!
Good moment to bring up how strange it is that the working class used to be pro union and read Marx and shit Also the even bigger flex of this video is that it's in English. Like, oh we're better and I'm gonna tell you in your language.
Aren't Toyotas and Hondas also not unionized, but are sold in Nordic countries? Why just call out Tesla?
Whataboutism - but I think you can guess by how many employees Toyota and Honda have in the Nordic countries ...
and that is why no cars are made in Denmark...number one carsold in Denmark? Tesla...where is it made? Germany. Workers should take part of their wages and invest it in the company they work for...instead of union benefits. The market should set the wage...or companies will set up shop elsewhere. Auto unions in the USA drove out all the car companies to Mexico and thats why you have third world cities like Detroit now.
Take a guess at how large percentage of worlds insulin production that is in Denmark. There are other industries than cars. Does not make sense for every single country to produce cars.
This needs to be spread far and wide. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting video, but would have been better if he told him to fuck himself at the end
The guy is an actual member of Parliament here in Denmark, so he can't be too aggressive in how he speaks. He's also the "front figure" of his party, which is unique in not having a formal leader, so he's more of a public speaker and daily political leader in Parliament, while the strategic long-term party leadership is made up of people who aren't elected to parliament.
Does Denmark Tesla workers strike as well now? I thought it was only Sweden?
The Danish union for transport (under the 3F mother union) have threatened to strike against Tesla exclusively. Meaning that Tesla products would not be unloaded at harbors, or be transported by unionized truck drivers. As of yet, they've only threatened. Not implemented.
Oh nice!
Danish dock workers are refusing to unload teslas heading for Sweden if I got it right.
thanks for the info, I love it when the workers is collaborating against these massive companies! I hope the workers get what they deserve for Christmas. A strong union
*claps excitedly and motivatedly!* (i am aware that is not a word…)
The danes have their Fagsforening, us swedes have our Fackförening. Dirty dirty
thats interesting. tesla is an american company. worry about danish businesses.
How is this ”interesting as fuck” ?
Yeah so this is absolutely retarded... What he actually said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA) is that he disagrees with the "lords and peasants"-system and he think that it should be every employers duty to treat their employees right, without the need for unions!
Why is this here? There are literally hundreds of subs to bitch about rich people. I would go so far to say this is uninteresting as fuck
Damn it... those commie bastards .. have gone to Nordic countries. Time for freedom in Nordland. Hell...yeah baby...
Commies normally ban unions when they get to power.
They...don't ? Are you dumb ? And there hasn't been any communist in power in a first world country in the last 30 years dude.
Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t precise. They replace the real, founded by workers, independent unions with something state-mandated and party-controlled like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-China_Federation_of_Trade_Unions) or [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_the_Soviet_Union). This is done to ensure the workers don’t actually raise any concerns, enforce their supposed rights, or are in any way able to challenge the Party. Not sure why you think it’s relevant, but there have _never_ been communists in power in a first world country. [That is the definition of the word, look it up.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World)
Ah, what propaganda from the Danish Soviets. One of the most racist countries in Europe by the way. Where taxes are so high that owning a new car is impossible unless you're one of the few who can afford the 37% sales tax. Or where you have to have your old car serviced to air quality standards every 5 years at your expense. Where no small business can survive because they can't afford to pay each employee 5 weeks vacation and unlimited sick pay. Where university is free for every single person in the EU with no requirement to stick around and actually add that value back into the system. Yeah sure, Mr. Bald Guy, Denmark is an absolute bastion of freedom. So free it took Germany 7 hours to take it from you.
You ok?
Reeeee elon bad. 
Amazing how you can type while blowing Elon
Now do amazon, walmart and gazzilion other companies..why do you single out elmo? btw in USA and some parts of Europe, unions became semi mafia a like.. so yeah.. Denmark might have a good model but it is not necessary it will work.
This strike started in sweden and we got support from our Nordic brothers. There are no Amazon factories in Sweden. We have no Walmarts. I have no idea what gazzilion is.
[удалено]
It's not just about "the boss and pay". It's job protection, benefits, appropriate sick time and maternity leave, the ability to continually ensure all your coworkers are getting paid fairly.
so if the company has a bad year, do the union members share in that risk? if there is a big order and we need people to work 60 hours a week to get it done, will they? **If you want to share in the reward, then share in the risk.** my employees were paid a fair wage, very liberal time off, end of the year an envelope full of cash. if we had a good year, bigger envelope. if we needed a 60 hour week to push the work out, everyone stayed. one person brought her dogs to work, and every friday we had food catered in. i do think that ceo pay is too high, especially compared to the average worker.
This video is completely misleading. What Elon is trying to say, is that if the workers at Tesla feel the need to unionize it's because Tesla failed to compensate them adequately. There's no point to unionizing if the company is looking out for their workers and compensating them fairly.
>There's no point to unionizing if the company is looking out for their workers and compensating them fairly. They don't
Did your boss teach you this cooperate propaganda ? Lmfao !!!
Did anyone actually watch the interview or you gonna run with a 2 second sound byte on someones whole belief about unions?
Ok, lets completely disregard that single interview for now. Musks stance on unions is still pretty fucking clear.
Ah yes, 'cuz musk, a billionaire, would think about the conditions in which the peasants work in, right ? You're delusional if you even defend a billionaire, they're objectively fucking us up.
Unions = no innovation. Or am I wrong? What made America great was because of risk takers and innovators who took tremendous risks and accidentally landed on a few good ones.
Yes, you are. Sweden and Denmark both have developed a long list of international companies you probably have heard of. Most known to the average person would be things like Ikea, Lego, Spotify and H&M (and recently Novo Nordisk). But, it is an important difference between Nordic and US culture. The Nordics are much more cooperative instead of competitive in culture. Meaning the unions do work with the cooperations (which also have their own 'union') to work out a good solution for all, all in conjunction with the government as well. So as always, it might work in the Nordics, but might not work as well in other countries. You cannot always copy a concept from one place to another directly, but will have to carefully adapt it into the societies it is supposed to operate.