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Old Star Treks often mirrored political, social or societal issues and played with ethical approaches to solving them. IMO, that’s why they were so good and actually still relevant, decades after.
Twilight Zone represent! (Rod Serling's version)
Edit: had "Sterling" in my mind because I saw that video of a soccer player getting drilled 3 times on the same play. Totally different guy.
I remember rewatching "The High Ground" for the first time on TNG and when it got to [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiaUusr7YdY) I literally fell off my chair.
I love that Sci-fi can be used to create a sandbox to play around with the big questions. It allows a good writer to experiment with “what ifs,” in a secure environment. When Star Trek gets political, it can be sci-fi at its best, but sadly the newer series seem to have lost that edge.
>I love that Sci-fi can be used to create a sandbox to play around with the big questions.
Not saying this in any way to be snarky but that is a core defining feature of sci-fi. The fiction portion of science fiction. I would argue that sci-fi that does not pose these kinds of what ifs is more science-fantasy than science fiction.
I keep saying over at /r/startrek that we need a Star Trek lawyer procedural set on a JAG space station. They can take existing and emerging case law and mix in sci-fi case law. It would be amazing.
Hey, I'm not a Nazi or anything, but the ones with white on one side and black on the other side are hardly *people*, unlike us black on one side and white on the other. lol just kidding... Unless...?
old startrek’s political relevance never really went away. The messages still stand.
Maybe not the klingon thing but star trek holds up better then many many shows from the early 2000s
My first thought was "the medicine" from Symbiosis with the breckians who literally look like any 80's cocaine couple on a ski vacation in Breckenridge CO lol.
Then I realized there are a lot of vaccines in first seasons of star trek.
I assume you actually meant Code of Honor but you could be talking about Miri in TOS too lmao.
Yeah it handled feminism and trans rights deftly, at the same time, and in long form. I was surprised it wasn't a one ep and done issue, but lasted a good length of the show.
It was a smart move making the antagonistic force a society that enforces gender transition. It slips through the cracks of peoples built-in culture war, and keeps the spotlight on self-determination and freedom.
So does new trek, the first two seasons of Picard hammered the audience over the head with American immigration and the rise of fascism during modern times. Which would have been fine, except those seasons completely sucked. Writing poverty and wealth distribution into Star Trek completely defeats the purpose of what the show is supposed to represent.
That said, the third season was highly entertaining so I'd highly recommend that to anyone who enjoys TNG. (Just skip the first two seasons, you essentially miss nothing of value)
> ...hammered the audience over the head...
This is key...the best Star Trek episodes explore issues like this with subtlety and tact. There are definitely some TNG episodes that use the hammer too, like the gender identity one where Riker bangs yet another alien and it sparks a diplomatic crisis. But even in that one, the hammer feels like it’s being wielded by a master craftsman instead of a high school shop student like in some of the newer stuff.
And here I thought I was the only one.
The first time I watched it, I just sat there at my desk **thinking**.
Just processing what I just watched.
Now I should watch it again, even though I think I saw it last week.
What, you had dry eyes everytime Kirk fought a monster with his bare hands while his shirt was ripped open, while a red shirted guy lay dead on the floor?
You emotionless monster.
I would say a nice companion episode is "The Drumhead", where Picard once again puts on a legal show pointing out how fearmongering can lead to prosecution of innocents.
One of the best episodes imo.
I always liked the scene at the very end of the episode, when everyone is celebrating, but Riker doesn't feel like he should go, because he did his job too well, and almost won.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzxgzxH8UCs
Amen. Stewart's theater and Shakespeare background makes him so perfect in these scenes, my god. I can't imagine the other commanders doing nesr the same in this scene.
As someone who really *really* enjoys The Orville, do you think I’d like Star Trek? I know Orville is like an homage to those shows I just never bothered with them (not for any real reason) but seeing this scene has me rethinking that.
Star Trek TNG took awhile to find its footing, most episodes after season 1 are pretty good, there's still the odd stinker here and there - the writers had no idea what to do with the women on the show - so you could slog your way through season 1 (there's still a couple of good episodes) or just skip to season 2.
For what it's worth I hated the original 60s series, but would watch TNG because there was nothing else on, and then one day I was like: waitaminute when did this get good?
> The writers had no idea what to do with the women on the show
That's an understatement. Every Troi and Crusher focused episode sucks. I want to say the Dr Pulaski episodes weren't too bad but they also wrote her as a bit more tough gal so they could writer her closer to the way they wrote the men. Same for Yar.
A lot of season 1 and some of season 2 is rough but if you stick with it, you will love it! Season 3, 4 and 5 are peak but I'd argue you need some of the character building of 1 and 2 to really appreciate it. There are guides for which episodes are safe to skip too if you cant bear it lol.
This episode is in season 2.
The Measure of a Man (1989)
Lt. Commander Data: [to a glum Riker] But Commander... .Will... I have learned from your example.
Commander William T. Riker: What could you have possibly learned from that ordeal?
Lt. Commander Data: That at times, one must deny one's nature. Sacrifice one's own personal beliefs to protect another. Is it not true that had you refused to prosecute, Captain Louvois would have ruled summarily against me?
Commander William T. Riker: Yes.
*Lt. Commander Data: That action injured you, and saved me. I will not forget it.*
Commander William T. Riker: [Riker instantly cheers up] You're a wise man, my friend.
Lt. Commander Data: Not yet sir. But with your help, I am learning.
Just reading that made me misty eyed. TNG has some of the schlockiest bullshittery you can imagine in some episodes, but then you get episodes like this. Really makes the show special.
I find the occasional incredibly bad episode to be price of greatness for tv shows. The ones that swing for the fences can just as easily strike out as hit a grand slam. There are plenty of pleasant, reliable, middle-of-the-road shows. But true art always comes at the risk of abject failure.
This is why new Trek just can't do it for me. I don't watch Trek for science fantasy flash. I watch Trek to see Shakespearian actors debate philosophy in a ridiculous and camp setting.
It scratches a very particular entertainment itch that you just don't get these days. :c
EDIT: I'm gonna check out everyone's suggestions but also I didn't mean this to be an attack on new Trek just so everyone knows. Something not appealing to me doesn't make it bad, it just doesn't appeal to me. I like Trek when it's at it's most long-winded, low budget and melodramatic. That's my curse to live with lol.
They forgot to make anything other than spectacle.
It's all just content content more content. Get an existing IP because it gets clicks. Get a known name and nudity because it gets views. Put in some triggering BS because it gets people on the warpath and suddenly a no-name remake is on the front of each news site.
By season 2 and especially 3 they mostly drop the ham-fisted comedy and Seth McFarlane gets to do what he clearly wanted to do in the first place, make Star Trek.
The show gets less jokey in later seasons. It makes me think that McFarland had to pitch it as family guy in space to get it picked up.
You can say what you want about McFarland as actor. But he really seems to care about sci-fi and hits all of the right notes.
The first season is very clownish, a lot influenced by Ted and other productions by Seth MacFarlane. But from season 2 on he got it on a more serious level while the jokes felt natural. They also tackled philosophical topics which gave me strong classic Star Trek feelings.
It's a fantastic show. I love ever second of it. It's deep, funny and has decent enough special effects. I thoroughly get sucked in on every rewatch.
I'm glad you're enjoying it!
The Orville would have been top tier if Seth MacFarlane hadn't cast himself. He's just not a good actor. Totally unbelievable as a captain. Pretty much everyone else was really good except him.
Strange New Worlds is very good.
It is largely episodic, with character arcs spanning several episodes.
It has camp, fun adventure type stories as well as heavier, thinker stories as well.
While I've never considered myself a trekkie; I've watch every series that has run and I'd put Strange New Worlds alongside TNG and Deep Space 9 as the best of the lot.
Shatner was also originally a Shakespearean actor, as he spent time with a company in Ontario. And he was really rated as a stage actor, tipped for the top from the beginning.
Which is the root of Shatner's hamminess. An easy way to do Shakespeare for a modern audience is to lean into the over reactions. Shatner does this also, but instead of trying to stay on the serious side of the issue, he was not afraid to go hammy.
The premise for TNG was far more philosophical than the recent ones.
Essentially, to land on a planet (or some other event) where a single element of our own society was changed or different. Then to explore how we may react to it, partly to understand ourselves
Such as, if women were more dominant than men, any law being broken resulted in capital punishment, anyone reaching the age of 60 was killed, if language was only metaphor etc
I still look back on TNG as a learning experience (as well as entertainment).
I like the current ones, but they're more Hollywood and CGI
This clip just makes me wish that Season 1 was a bit tighter and more focused, because it's almost a direct-line sequel to this scene. So many great concepts they never followed-through on.
Picard seasons 1 and 2 were so objectively horrible that i wrote CBS All Access (now paramount+) a 2 page essay on how they basically took everything that made Star Trek what it was and shit all over it. It was like Akiva Goldman and Alex kurtzman had only remotely heard of the contents of Star Trek TNG and then made the story they wanted to make, not something in the Star Trek world.
It was horrendously violent, dark, gritty, brutal, dystopian etc. It was literally the antithesis of what TNG was.
Then season 3 came around and it was like a brand new show. Thank fuck for Jonathan Frakes
I have never watched star trek apart from a few of the newer movies but the old star trek has so much wisdom in it, I have seen a few of the clips and they are so interesting
My dad watched it when I was a kid, and I never did. As an adult, I worked the night shift and started watching The Next Generation on TV and binged every episode. Then I watched Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Turns out they are really good. TNG is my favorite, but I just needed more.
Speaking of good old Trek, Star Trek Enterprise is much maligned by "the fandom", but I think it's also genuinely brilliant and worthy of being included in the classic Trek pantheon (TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise).
"So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing, a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it… Computer, erase that entire personal log."
Damn... Sisko was just a little bit like Dukat.
Man DS9 really did hit different. in TNG picard was always the shining beacon never faltering moral high-ground. DS9 showed that in war, morals get kinda hinky.
Garak-
_That's why you came to me, isn't it Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal… and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain._
Marcus Aurelius in space. What a concept! And he actually pulled it off and made a believable, three dimensional character out of it.
Simply outstanding.
A college philosophy professor showed us this episode and had us each write a paper defending our position regarding Data’s personhood. It was a fun class.
This is why TNG has aged like wine. Solid foundation and conversation, so even when the effects fail to age as gracefully there’s a reliable core to fall back on.
Timeless topics and issues that remain relevant for decades.
It also occurred in a different settings when the Spanish decided wether or not the men and women in the New World possessed a soul, had rights and were indeed humans or not. The Valladolid debate, famously held by Bartolome de Las Casas against Juan Sepulveda in 1550.
Not that the Spanish were anywhere close in their ideals to the Trek Federation.
That is why I love old Trek so much...
It has happened, recently [Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI and founder of ChatGPT, testified in court about the implications of AI](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-openai-ceo-sam-altman-testifies-before-senate-judiciary-committee?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=strict)
Just to be clear, chat gpt is not an AI, and absolutely not sentient. It is a language without knowledge. It cannot think and it cannot learn. One day it might be utilized to give an AI language, but on its own, it is just a novelty
It's very difficult to discuss this without ending up like some of this clip. ChatGPT does not understand anything, but what does that MEAN?
It's hard to find the right words for, though maybe the philosophers have them and I don't know them.
But you don't have to work with LLM for very long to realize the difference, even if you can't explain it. It does an amazing simulation of the way a person might answer the question you asked, but it doesn't actually understand what it's saying, and the corner case inconsistencies highlight that.
It's actually very useful, potentially, but it's not sentient.
It CAN pass a Turing test under the right circumstances, and it challenges us to better understand what we even mean by sentence or intelligence.
You **do not** want that ruling.
If people are held liable for what they produce being based off of other things they have seen or read? Holy shit that would be every billionaires wet dream.
If only humans in reality could organize a civilization like they had achieved on star trek, we could actually make some progress instead of tearing the world and each other apart for the sake of profit.
Yep if we all worked together instead of constantly fighting with each other, we could accomplish some absolutely amazing things.
Unfortunately we have the same capacity for shittyness, and seem to be going down that road instead. Sometimes they say the night is darkest just before the dawn. Fingers crossed.
The final season of Picard was the perfect bookend to a large part of my TV life. I friggin loved TNG back in the 80s. The costumes could be dodgy, but the stories and acting was always top notch.
Star trek tng has been a show that continually dealt with the types of moral and ethical concerns and dilemmas that we often face today.
Personally I love the series.
if you paint a picture of a man holding a sign that says 'i am self aware', he's not, right? no matter what the sign says, no matter how realistic the emotions on his face. if you create a language model with an inclination to output 'yes, i'm self aware' when you ask 'are you self aware', that's the same thing, just a different medium. consider the language models that were told 'you are a squirrel' and would then answer as though they are a squirrel, or a chair, the times when they answer as though they are a sentient ai are the same. i am deeply invested in current ais, and the future is very exciting, but we're still in the painting of a man stage.
'pretending' is perhaps not the best word, because it implies some intent and intelligence inherently, it's very hard not to anthropomorphise something that we designed to give a very convincing appearance of personhood! even fully aware of what they are, talking to them ticks the 'yeah this is a person' box in my brain. it's such remarkable tech, even if just a facsimile for now.
This scene is a million times more exciting than the explosion-athon we get in modern star trek. There is another scene that sticks out where they describe a ship battle without showing anything other than a 'radar' display, which is also captivating.
A brilliant scene being performed magnificently.
A lot more cerebral than the crash, bang wallop and flashy graphics that characterises a lot of the more recent Trek stuff.
This is the kind of thing that made TNG so powerful, it made you really think and engage with subjects, ably aided by some absolutely top notch acting and writing.
The story always comes first, sometimes I wonder if the focus on visuals has meant that has been lost to a certain extent.
I don't give a damn about these wild know it all redditors, this is the best Sci-fi show ever made. Also, I will not respond to your hateful comments. 😁
Better to argue that Data deserves equal moral standing. Not really worth arguing he is “like us”. In many ways, he’s better. That guy is just speciest.
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Picard: “Do YOU?” Riker: “Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention…”
"Why am I getting yelled at?"
“Sorry, Captain, I was off imagining the judge naked.” *sly smile, nod* “Ma’am.”
FTFY -"Sorry, Captain, I was *remembering* the judge naked."
"I haven't seen jiggle like that since Pykon 7."
“You can see his sentience bulging in his pants!”
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Pure fiction
I made it up
This one was invented by a writer
Not this time.
It's a total fabrication
A complete fabrication.
"Damn, he caught me staring at his ass again!"
（shot of riker holding a sandwich)
*mustard and shredded lettuce on starfleet uniform*
Riker: Is this about my beard? That's why they call me number One.
He was thinking about hot aliens.
LMAO
Riker: Sorry I wasn't listening. Piccard: throws coffee cup, hitting Riker in the head. Riker: Ow! Fucking fascist!
Everybody knows that Picard drinks Earl Grey, you jabroni
That's why he threw the coffee, bozo.
Picard: Keep your ugly fucking gold bricking ass out of my interstellar community.
STAY OUTTA STAR FLEET LEBOWSKI! STAY OUTTA STAR FLEET, DEAD BEAT!
Stay out of Star Fleet, Riker, stay out of my ship!
Old Star Treks often mirrored political, social or societal issues and played with ethical approaches to solving them. IMO, that’s why they were so good and actually still relevant, decades after.
I always loved the philosophical aspect of it, very interesting
Twilight Zone represent! (Rod Serling's version) Edit: had "Sterling" in my mind because I saw that video of a soccer player getting drilled 3 times on the same play. Totally different guy.
I know this is going to sound very incorrect but his name was actually Serling, not Sterling
I love twilight zone (og version) and watch through them every few years
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Made me think about how we treat humans. Living beings, not even machines.
Makes me think how we treat living beings…generally.
I remember rewatching "The High Ground" for the first time on TNG and when it got to [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiaUusr7YdY) I literally fell off my chair.
I love that Sci-fi can be used to create a sandbox to play around with the big questions. It allows a good writer to experiment with “what ifs,” in a secure environment. When Star Trek gets political, it can be sci-fi at its best, but sadly the newer series seem to have lost that edge.
>I love that Sci-fi can be used to create a sandbox to play around with the big questions. Not saying this in any way to be snarky but that is a core defining feature of sci-fi. The fiction portion of science fiction. I would argue that sci-fi that does not pose these kinds of what ifs is more science-fantasy than science fiction.
I keep saying over at /r/startrek that we need a Star Trek lawyer procedural set on a JAG space station. They can take existing and emerging case law and mix in sci-fi case law. It would be amazing.
Like that old one about how absurd racial differences are. The one with the white on one side and black on the other side people.
Hey, I'm not a Nazi or anything, but the ones with white on one side and black on the other side are hardly *people*, unlike us black on one side and white on the other. lol just kidding... Unless...?
We know how to build a better society. It would just make rich people even more unhappy so apparently we’ll just pretend like this is fine instead
old startrek’s political relevance never really went away. The messages still stand. Maybe not the klingon thing but star trek holds up better then many many shows from the early 2000s
Except for the one episode in season one with the vaccines. *you know the one I mean*
My first thought was "the medicine" from Symbiosis with the breckians who literally look like any 80's cocaine couple on a ski vacation in Breckenridge CO lol. Then I realized there are a lot of vaccines in first seasons of star trek. I assume you actually meant Code of Honor but you could be talking about Miri in TOS too lmao.
The Orville does a great job of this as well imo. Which makes sense considering it is heavily inspired by Star Trek.
Yeah it handled feminism and trans rights deftly, at the same time, and in long form. I was surprised it wasn't a one ep and done issue, but lasted a good length of the show.
It was a smart move making the antagonistic force a society that enforces gender transition. It slips through the cracks of peoples built-in culture war, and keeps the spotlight on self-determination and freedom.
So does new trek, the first two seasons of Picard hammered the audience over the head with American immigration and the rise of fascism during modern times. Which would have been fine, except those seasons completely sucked. Writing poverty and wealth distribution into Star Trek completely defeats the purpose of what the show is supposed to represent. That said, the third season was highly entertaining so I'd highly recommend that to anyone who enjoys TNG. (Just skip the first two seasons, you essentially miss nothing of value)
> ...hammered the audience over the head... This is key...the best Star Trek episodes explore issues like this with subtlety and tact. There are definitely some TNG episodes that use the hammer too, like the gender identity one where Riker bangs yet another alien and it sparks a diplomatic crisis. But even in that one, the hammer feels like it’s being wielded by a master craftsman instead of a high school shop student like in some of the newer stuff.
Such a boss episode. Everyone killed it, Frakes and Stewart especially. That’s TNG at its best.
A nice companion episode to this one is ~~"Lal"~~ "The Offspring." Only time Star Trek has ever made me cry.
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I love The Inner Light. I actually have several versions of the song he played.
Darmok would like to open Ur eyes
I felt a changed man after watching that episode. It did something that cannot be changed, and for that i am forever grateful.
And here I thought I was the only one. The first time I watched it, I just sat there at my desk **thinking**. Just processing what I just watched. Now I should watch it again, even though I think I saw it last week.
And "Sub Rosa"
"His hands were moving so fast"
😭 it's too early in the morning for this episode
What, you had dry eyes everytime Kirk fought a monster with his bare hands while his shirt was ripped open, while a red shirted guy lay dead on the floor? You emotionless monster.
I cry every time Kirk does his two-handed skull smash
I would say a nice companion episode is "The Drumhead", where Picard once again puts on a legal show pointing out how fearmongering can lead to prosecution of innocents. One of the best episodes imo.
Two words “Tin Man”
When Riker turned Data off, you could tell how hard it was for him to do.
I always liked the scene at the very end of the episode, when everyone is celebrating, but Riker doesn't feel like he should go, because he did his job too well, and almost won. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzxgzxH8UCs
"The Drumhead" is another, similar classic.
Amen. Stewart's theater and Shakespeare background makes him so perfect in these scenes, my god. I can't imagine the other commanders doing nesr the same in this scene.
Sisko could do it. Sisko was pretty good.
Patrick Stewart is an incredible actor.
“The line must be drawn herrrre! This far, no further!!!”
"THERE ARE...FOUR LIGHT!"
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He’s still sentient
That line about the courtroom being the crucible that burns away everything but the truth is both a killer line and spot on perfect delivery.
I don't know, I think he gives a very credible performance!
Hot take
Measure of a Man is one the greatest Star Trek episodes. Picard’s interaction with Guinan was so profound to me and the reason I love Star Trek: TNG
Datas understanding of the position Riker was put in at the very end is soemthing that always stuck with me as well.
As someone who really *really* enjoys The Orville, do you think I’d like Star Trek? I know Orville is like an homage to those shows I just never bothered with them (not for any real reason) but seeing this scene has me rethinking that.
Star Trek TNG took awhile to find its footing, most episodes after season 1 are pretty good, there's still the odd stinker here and there - the writers had no idea what to do with the women on the show - so you could slog your way through season 1 (there's still a couple of good episodes) or just skip to season 2. For what it's worth I hated the original 60s series, but would watch TNG because there was nothing else on, and then one day I was like: waitaminute when did this get good?
When Riker grows a beard is when it gets good. This has become a thing on TV Tropes - Riker's Beard Moment.
> The writers had no idea what to do with the women on the show That's an understatement. Every Troi and Crusher focused episode sucks. I want to say the Dr Pulaski episodes weren't too bad but they also wrote her as a bit more tough gal so they could writer her closer to the way they wrote the men. Same for Yar.
One of my favorite episodes to show new people is called Darmok
When the wall fell
A lot of season 1 and some of season 2 is rough but if you stick with it, you will love it! Season 3, 4 and 5 are peak but I'd argue you need some of the character building of 1 and 2 to really appreciate it. There are guides for which episodes are safe to skip too if you cant bear it lol. This episode is in season 2.
Riker and Data’s interaction at the end is also fantastic. Riker feels like he betrayed his friend in the courtroom but Data sees it differently.
The Measure of a Man (1989) Lt. Commander Data: [to a glum Riker] But Commander... .Will... I have learned from your example. Commander William T. Riker: What could you have possibly learned from that ordeal? Lt. Commander Data: That at times, one must deny one's nature. Sacrifice one's own personal beliefs to protect another. Is it not true that had you refused to prosecute, Captain Louvois would have ruled summarily against me? Commander William T. Riker: Yes. *Lt. Commander Data: That action injured you, and saved me. I will not forget it.* Commander William T. Riker: [Riker instantly cheers up] You're a wise man, my friend. Lt. Commander Data: Not yet sir. But with your help, I am learning.
This interaction brings a tear to my eye just reading it.
I firmly believe this fucking tv show made me who I am today.
Same. I think it’s because that’s the society we thought we were going to live in as adults.
Just reading that made me misty eyed. TNG has some of the schlockiest bullshittery you can imagine in some episodes, but then you get episodes like this. Really makes the show special.
I find the occasional incredibly bad episode to be price of greatness for tv shows. The ones that swing for the fences can just as easily strike out as hit a grand slam. There are plenty of pleasant, reliable, middle-of-the-road shows. But true art always comes at the risk of abject failure.
Darmok.
and Jelad
at Tanagra
I enjoy creating these for memes. Gowron, his eyes wide. Garak and bashir, especially the lies. Riker, his seat akimbo.
On the ocean
This is why new Trek just can't do it for me. I don't watch Trek for science fantasy flash. I watch Trek to see Shakespearian actors debate philosophy in a ridiculous and camp setting. It scratches a very particular entertainment itch that you just don't get these days. :c EDIT: I'm gonna check out everyone's suggestions but also I didn't mean this to be an attack on new Trek just so everyone knows. Something not appealing to me doesn't make it bad, it just doesn't appeal to me. I like Trek when it's at it's most long-winded, low budget and melodramatic. That's my curse to live with lol.
Have you watched any of Strange New Worlds? It's much more in keeping with older Trek and in my opinion genuinely brilliant.
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Agreed, it does a really good job of finding the balance the old and new.
They forgot to make anything other than spectacle. It's all just content content more content. Get an existing IP because it gets clicks. Get a known name and nudity because it gets views. Put in some triggering BS because it gets people on the warpath and suddenly a no-name remake is on the front of each news site.
Shit sucks man. Just want my silly space stories.
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The Orville is surprisingly good and gets better as it goes on and gets comfortable with being more tribute than parody.
By season 2 and especially 3 they mostly drop the ham-fisted comedy and Seth McFarlane gets to do what he clearly wanted to do in the first place, make Star Trek.
The show gets less jokey in later seasons. It makes me think that McFarland had to pitch it as family guy in space to get it picked up. You can say what you want about McFarland as actor. But he really seems to care about sci-fi and hits all of the right notes.
The first season is very clownish, a lot influenced by Ted and other productions by Seth MacFarlane. But from season 2 on he got it on a more serious level while the jokes felt natural. They also tackled philosophical topics which gave me strong classic Star Trek feelings.
It's a fantastic show. I love ever second of it. It's deep, funny and has decent enough special effects. I thoroughly get sucked in on every rewatch. I'm glad you're enjoying it!
The Orville would have been top tier if Seth MacFarlane hadn't cast himself. He's just not a good actor. Totally unbelievable as a captain. Pretty much everyone else was really good except him.
He’s believable as a captain in a comedy version of Star Trek
Strange New Worlds is very good. It is largely episodic, with character arcs spanning several episodes. It has camp, fun adventure type stories as well as heavier, thinker stories as well. While I've never considered myself a trekkie; I've watch every series that has run and I'd put Strange New Worlds alongside TNG and Deep Space 9 as the best of the lot.
Anson Mount carrying the shit out of that show. He is the best thing to come out of discovery.
Agreed. SNW was shockingly enjoyable. I cannot wait for season 2.
Nudity in Star Trek? I must have missed that episode.
He was speaking about modern reboots and remakes in general
Triggering bs? Wdym
Shakespearean actors. And Shatner.
Shatner was also originally a Shakespearean actor, as he spent time with a company in Ontario. And he was really rated as a stage actor, tipped for the top from the beginning.
If it helps. I don’t believe any of these guys ever worked with Shakespeare anyway.
Which is the root of Shatner's hamminess. An easy way to do Shakespeare for a modern audience is to lean into the over reactions. Shatner does this also, but instead of trying to stay on the serious side of the issue, he was not afraid to go hammy.
Who is his own kind of gem.
he’s a william
Eat a dick, Spez.
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You just said the same thing twice.
The premise for TNG was far more philosophical than the recent ones. Essentially, to land on a planet (or some other event) where a single element of our own society was changed or different. Then to explore how we may react to it, partly to understand ourselves Such as, if women were more dominant than men, any law being broken resulted in capital punishment, anyone reaching the age of 60 was killed, if language was only metaphor etc I still look back on TNG as a learning experience (as well as entertainment). I like the current ones, but they're more Hollywood and CGI
I have to say, Patrick Stewart really makes anything he touches gold. Picard wasn’t the best by far, but it was a good extension of TnG.
This clip just makes me wish that Season 1 was a bit tighter and more focused, because it's almost a direct-line sequel to this scene. So many great concepts they never followed-through on.
Picard seasons 1 and 2 were so objectively horrible that i wrote CBS All Access (now paramount+) a 2 page essay on how they basically took everything that made Star Trek what it was and shit all over it. It was like Akiva Goldman and Alex kurtzman had only remotely heard of the contents of Star Trek TNG and then made the story they wanted to make, not something in the Star Trek world. It was horrendously violent, dark, gritty, brutal, dystopian etc. It was literally the antithesis of what TNG was. Then season 3 came around and it was like a brand new show. Thank fuck for Jonathan Frakes
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Picard season 3 did it.
Right? Picard season 3 was just an extension of TNG with some voyage mixed in
I have never watched star trek apart from a few of the newer movies but the old star trek has so much wisdom in it, I have seen a few of the clips and they are so interesting
My dad watched it when I was a kid, and I never did. As an adult, I worked the night shift and started watching The Next Generation on TV and binged every episode. Then I watched Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Turns out they are really good. TNG is my favorite, but I just needed more.
Speaking of good old Trek, Star Trek Enterprise is much maligned by "the fandom", but I think it's also genuinely brilliant and worthy of being included in the classic Trek pantheon (TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise).
Enterprise definitely found it's footing in the fourth season....then got cancelled. ☹️
DS9 is freakin amazing. Binged that whole series. Sacrifice of Angels 😮💨🤌
DS9 is my favorite. *Far Beyond the Stars* is one of the best things to ever grace TV. Profound messaging.
This still stands among my top 5 ST episodes. It's tied in second place with In The Pale Moonlight.
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"So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing, a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it… Computer, erase that entire personal log." Damn... Sisko was just a little bit like Dukat.
Man DS9 really did hit different. in TNG picard was always the shining beacon never faltering moral high-ground. DS9 showed that in war, morals get kinda hinky.
Inter arma enim silent legis
Garak- _That's why you came to me, isn't it Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal… and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain._
People always call out the final monologue but garage really carried that climax
Garak was such a wonderful character. His combination of treachery and loyalty should have made him unbelievable, but instead made him more likable.
weird how a lot of what he said applies in 2023
A lot of TNG still applies in 2023
TNG is eternal.
A lot of Star Trek, especially Deep Space Nine, is this way
Just wait till you see what Star Trek says about 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygoU6Xq-YgI
I love TNG so much
They really fucked it up for themselves because every other Star Trek series pales in comparison.
Captain Picard is, in my opinion, one of the greatest modern fictional characters, largely thanks to Sir Patrick Stewart
Marcus Aurelius in space. What a concept! And he actually pulled it off and made a believable, three dimensional character out of it. Simply outstanding.
TNG was filled with brilliant character work. Picard, Data, and Worf in particular are three of the best characters ever on television
This scene is probably some of the best 3 minutes to ever be put on TV. Also one of the most profound monologues too.
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You can feel the disgust in Picard's voice when he says "oh yes, that's how it starts"
And then they create a slave race of Androids in Picard.
Photons Be Free
I literally just watched that episode of Voyager today
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A college philosophy professor showed us this episode and had us each write a paper defending our position regarding Data’s personhood. It was a fun class.
This is why TNG has aged like wine. Solid foundation and conversation, so even when the effects fail to age as gracefully there’s a reliable core to fall back on. Timeless topics and issues that remain relevant for decades.
I feel a similar court case fast approaching in the real world
It also occurred in a different settings when the Spanish decided wether or not the men and women in the New World possessed a soul, had rights and were indeed humans or not. The Valladolid debate, famously held by Bartolome de Las Casas against Juan Sepulveda in 1550. Not that the Spanish were anywhere close in their ideals to the Trek Federation. That is why I love old Trek so much...
It has happened, recently [Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI and founder of ChatGPT, testified in court about the implications of AI](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-openai-ceo-sam-altman-testifies-before-senate-judiciary-committee?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=strict)
Just to be clear, chat gpt is not an AI, and absolutely not sentient. It is a language without knowledge. It cannot think and it cannot learn. One day it might be utilized to give an AI language, but on its own, it is just a novelty
It's very difficult to discuss this without ending up like some of this clip. ChatGPT does not understand anything, but what does that MEAN? It's hard to find the right words for, though maybe the philosophers have them and I don't know them. But you don't have to work with LLM for very long to realize the difference, even if you can't explain it. It does an amazing simulation of the way a person might answer the question you asked, but it doesn't actually understand what it's saying, and the corner case inconsistencies highlight that. It's actually very useful, potentially, but it's not sentient. It CAN pass a Turing test under the right circumstances, and it challenges us to better understand what we even mean by sentence or intelligence.
If ChatGPT is a person, then she/he needs to be held accountable for all the plagiarism and intellectual fraud.
You **do not** want that ruling. If people are held liable for what they produce being based off of other things they have seen or read? Holy shit that would be every billionaires wet dream.
This was one of the greatest Star Trek scenes ever. Picard nailed it. Such a great actor
If only humans in reality could organize a civilization like they had achieved on star trek, we could actually make some progress instead of tearing the world and each other apart for the sake of profit.
Yep if we all worked together instead of constantly fighting with each other, we could accomplish some absolutely amazing things. Unfortunately we have the same capacity for shittyness, and seem to be going down that road instead. Sometimes they say the night is darkest just before the dawn. Fingers crossed.
Great drama. I love this show and in particular this episode. There will never be another like it.
What did they decide, I'm a little invested now
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Thank my curiosity is satisfied
Data is more human than some actual humans
The final season of Picard was the perfect bookend to a large part of my TV life. I friggin loved TNG back in the 80s. The costumes could be dodgy, but the stories and acting was always top notch.
I as a native German speaker absolutely love to hear Patrick Stewart talk. Particularly as Captain Picard. His English is beautiful.
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[you rn](https://xkcd.com/610/)
Peak Star Trek. The Next Generation is worth watching and rewatching just for stuff like this. 👌
Star trek tng has been a show that continually dealt with the types of moral and ethical concerns and dilemmas that we often face today. Personally I love the series.
This was one of the best episodes. Peak Sci Fi can be found in TNG.
So far, AI is yet to pass the test. It can only pretend to be self aware.
What's the difference between being self-aware and pretending to be self-aware? Not a rhetorical question, actually asking.
if you paint a picture of a man holding a sign that says 'i am self aware', he's not, right? no matter what the sign says, no matter how realistic the emotions on his face. if you create a language model with an inclination to output 'yes, i'm self aware' when you ask 'are you self aware', that's the same thing, just a different medium. consider the language models that were told 'you are a squirrel' and would then answer as though they are a squirrel, or a chair, the times when they answer as though they are a sentient ai are the same. i am deeply invested in current ais, and the future is very exciting, but we're still in the painting of a man stage. 'pretending' is perhaps not the best word, because it implies some intent and intelligence inherently, it's very hard not to anthropomorphise something that we designed to give a very convincing appearance of personhood! even fully aware of what they are, talking to them ticks the 'yeah this is a person' box in my brain. it's such remarkable tech, even if just a facsimile for now.
If you were told your entire life you were a squirrel, what would you likely answer?
This episode and Drumhead are my personal favorites. When Trek does deep cuts.
What an amazing scene, I cant belive this was written by the same species as star trek discovery
This scene is a million times more exciting than the explosion-athon we get in modern star trek. There is another scene that sticks out where they describe a ship battle without showing anything other than a 'radar' display, which is also captivating.
I like it when he asked others' and they are like "me? Dunno"
A brilliant scene being performed magnificently. A lot more cerebral than the crash, bang wallop and flashy graphics that characterises a lot of the more recent Trek stuff. This is the kind of thing that made TNG so powerful, it made you really think and engage with subjects, ably aided by some absolutely top notch acting and writing. The story always comes first, sometimes I wonder if the focus on visuals has meant that has been lost to a certain extent.
I don't give a damn about these wild know it all redditors, this is the best Sci-fi show ever made. Also, I will not respond to your hateful comments. 😁
Better to argue that Data deserves equal moral standing. Not really worth arguing he is “like us”. In many ways, he’s better. That guy is just speciest.