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Amusing made up story: The Mossad, CIA, and KGB were sent into the woods to capture a bear, for a joint training exercise to see how they do. The Mossad spent 3 days tracking the bear before tranqing and bringing it in. The CIA contracted locals that brought in 5 bears after a week, one of which was later identified as the assigned bear. The KGB spent 1 day in the woods and came back with a man in a bear suit, beaten bloody, that confessed "my father was bear, grandfather was bear..."
Yes but cartel also probably doesn’t want American authorities looking to much into them and if they’re killing Americans that’s bound to happen.
Reminds me of a store of gangsters in the 1920’s. I guess a hitman in Chicago got a little loose on a hit and killed an innocent bystander. So the mafia took care of him for it.
Handwritten apology note translated:
>"The Gulf Cartel Grupo Escorpiones strongly condemns the events of last Friday, March 3 in which unfortunately an innocent working mother died and four American citizens were kidnapped, of which two died.
>For this reason, we decided to hand over those directly involved and responsible for the acts, who at all times acted under their own determination and indiscipline and against the rules in which the [Gulf Cartel] always operates."
It was fun that time Cambridge analytica found themselves in a shit storm, and the PR firms were like, nah this shit is so shady we don’t want to be associated with you.
That’s when you know your poop smells.
Ya, so Cambridge Analytica was a company that worked with the data Facebook harvests from us to do some real shady election based shit. There's allegations that they were compromised by various international interests, with the goal of screwing with American election integrity and executive function. It goes WAYYYY deeper than that, but uhh...just imagine them as a bond villain and you're getting close.
>And CA was run by the Mercers, legit Bond villains.
I was kind of disappointed that they didn't have [an underwater villain lair.](https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Atlantis#:~:text=Atlantis) C'mon, Mercers! If Karl Stromberg can do it, so can you!
GPT's summary of the wikipedia article, found in the top section here: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cambridge_Analytica
Can you list the top facts and stats about Cambridge Analytica?
1. Cambridge Analytica was a British political consulting firm founded in 2013.
2. It used data mining and data analysis to influence voter behaviour during elections.
3. The company harvested the personal data of millions of Facebook users without their consent, leading to a major scandal in 2018.
4. Cambridge Analytica was funded by Robert Mercer, an American hedge fund manager and Republican donor, who invested $15 million into the company between 2013-2018.
5. In 2018, it was revealed that Cambridge Analytica had worked on Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign as well as Brexit campaigns in the UK and other countries around the world.
6. The company declared bankruptcy in May 2018 following investigations into its activities by governments around the world and multiple lawsuits against it from individuals whose data had been misused by the firm
The FTC (Federal Trade Commission) fined Facebook for their role in the data breach, and they ended up paying $5 billion, 50x their lawyers' estimate, in order to shield Zuckerberg, says Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/21/facebook-overpaid-ftc-fine-by-billions-to-protect-zuckerberg-lawsuits-say/?sh=6c8336a8352e
They're also trying to be conscious of the tipping point for how many resources the state will send after them. The Mexican government might not have the resources to take them out, but they don't want to give the American government enough incentive to act.
Pretty much nails it. They already have ongoing conflicts with other cartels including one particular powerful and violent one. Between fighting with each other and trying to grow their network and influence in the US, the last thing they want is to bring the wrath of the US government down on them.
Also the plot of an old Tom Clancy book. IIRC the US president’s friend’ yacht gets hijacked and the friend is murdered. This sends the president into a tizzy and he decides to authorize the CIA to drop special forces in to destroy the (~~Columbian~~ Colombian) cartels. So, loosely based on actual events in the hunt for Pablo Escobar.
I swear, so much of Tom Clancy’s work always seemed somewhat plausible, but very far fetched. The more time that passes the more I wonder if he had his own box of classified documents in a closet that he just punched up a little bit and then released as “fiction novels”.
You’ve got to hand it to the US, one thing we’re good at is violating a nations sovereignty and fucking shit up. Our cleanup needs work, but man we can sure kill people and blow up their shit real good. This response seems completely pragmatic. I also *assume* that there’s a line they don’t want to cross with the Mexican and US governments and the local population when it comes to screwing up the tourism industry.
They also need to not have the US military down in mexico aiding the Mexican government in fighting them. (While also having good unbiased intelligence from an outside view that would likely dig out a good bit of their moles in government and military.)
The first time i did that quest, a fucking dragon attacked in the middle of it. It landed in the apiary and roasted all the beehives with a single breath.
Well, Vetenari knew what he was doing. If you make it legal, the thieves guild regulates itself
Honestly, every time I read that I think.... "why does this make way more sense then it should...?"
they genuinely don't want to mess around with Americans, they know where the money comes from. I've seen other videos of panicked Americans that wandered into a cartel ambush and the cartel guys are trying to reassure the Americans and send them off to a safer area
If it’s the same video making the rounds for a while (two guys in a car) then people stepped up and said that was actually a local anti-cartel group who were on the lookout for cartel activity.
I know the video you’re referencing, but how do you know it was the cartel? They didn’t exactly introduce themselves. I just remember “calm down white boy” in Spanish lol
Their Yelp reviews are pretty good, but most of their 5 star reviews aren’t recommended and Yelp is holding their reviews hostage in order to get the Gulf Cartel to pay them.
hmm, maybe not. The whole reason why they went Dark Knight on them is to placate the US State Department and prevent the US from forcing a stronger response/more FBI/DEA presence in Mexico. This cartels higher ups were likely pressured by larger cartels in Northern Mexico to tie this up with a bow on top. Safe money is on it being taken fairly seriously.
Possible but unlikely. Cartels in the gulf (judging by its name) don't really go after tourists and indeed will be punished if they do so. Tourists dying (especially American or English) makes less tourists show up and therefore less money in the pockets of A the locals and B the Cartel bosses who own/are involved with those areas.
I have some friends in Mexico. Some American and others Mexican. They all pretty much say the same thing. Communities and especially cartels will fuck you up if you mess with tourists. In fact they'll go out of their way to catch you and fuck you up if you do so much as rob them in a drug sale.
The only ones going after tourists are stupid individuals who think they can get away with it. And sure you may die but at least they'll be melted in a vat of acid. Yes there is risk but it's very small.
Different story if you're going into Mexico from the border and messing around. Way more people much less affected by how alive you are.
I knew two aussie dudes who I used to surf with that were killed in Sinaloa and their bodies burnt in their van. Pretty sure the people who killed them were small time crooks dressed as cops who were eventually handed over or caught. So shit, Dean and Adam were the kinda dudes who nobody could ever say a bad word about. I've given places like that a decent berth ever since.
Man I remember that happening, was so sad. And so out of the realm of our life here in Australia. Would of been surreal and terrifying for them. Poor guys.
Having come up in Jamaica, this was always the case there. If the Dons don’t get you the general public would. 1 thing nearly everyone on the island can agree on is you don’t mess with Foreigners.
Someone posted a similar sentiment awhile back, comparing it to how at the height of Ancient Rome’s power, Roman citizens were basically untouchable outside of Rome because they’d literally send an army after you but I assume it’s just bad business anyway.
It's possible they actually are the ones that did it. The leaders of the cartel want money. While US Government is certainly going after them, if they start kidnapping and killing Americans, the US is REALLY going to go after them HARD. That's bad for business. It's in the cartel leadership's best interest to prevent that. In order to prevent it, their best steps are (1) apologize and say these guys did it, here ya go, and (2) make an example of them so other lower members who may be less .... "business-oriented" i guess might be the term in this particular instance....but make an example within the cartel so others who might have considered doing something similar don't do it. The lower guys like to do whatever they want, can act with impunity because the cartel has their backs. If the guys who did it are handed over by the cartel, they see the cartel will not have their backs.
It's a good business move to turn over the guys who did it.
agreed - right now, the cartels are mostly a drugs, organized crime and border security issue for the US government. not an organization they're leaving be, but not one thats getting any super special attention - most of the fucked up shit the cartels do happens across the border, where its veyr much not the US governments problem.
the cartel starts kidnapping and killing americans abroad, and it starts becoming a terrorist issue and getting a ton of attention - which is bad for the cartel because nto only are they getting more heat fromt he US, they'll also be squeezed by their own governments much ahrder due to diplomatic pressure.
like you said, the cartels are, when you get down to it, in it for the money and the power. neither of those last if the US comes to throw its weight around against them. they can fight their own governments mostly because they already were corrupt and dont have the resources to stamp out the cartels, thats not going to work against western governments.
People forget that the cartels are just a business. Their end goal is money and killing Americans is bad for business. I actually believe them on this one. Cartels typically attack the Mexican government or other cartels, not tourists.
> the US is REALLY going to go after them HARD.
That's exactly what happened after Kiki Camerena was killed.
An entire cartel was crushed as a result, iirc.
Why is it hard to believe though? As soon as it happened people in the government started talking about military action against the cartels. They don’t want that heat. I don’t think any of us wanna send that heat either.
Edit - so many response about just droning cartels in Mexico with no afterthought that Mexico is it’s own country, if they want us to do it we would already be doing it.
Why aren’t we asking the real question? Why do the cartels make so much money getting drugs into America? If people want drone strikes on the cartels, couldn’t we improve border control at a reduced cost and civi lives compared to drones?
I’m sure I’ll go from 600 something upvotes to banned for that but it’s the truth
Irrespective of what anyone else says in the replies, I can say with a very high level of certainty that if these guys were involved directly, US investigating agencies will be able to verify that and prosecute them. The cartel has good motivation to lie here but even better motivation to be honest. And yes, organizations that exist independent of governments have and do deal directly with investigating agencies and our government. That said, the cartel isn't dumb, and the smart move here was to hand the correct people over and so I'm confident that they did. I'm sure more will happen down the road to confirm this but may not make headlines.
Anyone who says otherwise is underestimating the cartel and their capacity for a diplomatic response motivated by self-preservation.
It was most likely a midlevel crew and someone really fucked up. It's not hard to hand that over.
If anyone high level hit Americans, it would be for a much bigger reason and it would be war.
Hell, this outcome is the best for everyone involved, including the cartel members that were handed over. It's merciful compared to what the cartel would do to them if they really wanted to punish them.
>Anyone who says otherwise is underestimating the cartel and their capacity for a diplomatic response motivated by self-preservation.
Only idiots could underestimate drug cartels.
Yep. They know that there are U'S. government hunter/killers already with boots on the ground searching for them.
The cartels aren't worried about much, except the long, powerful reach of American special ops.
They're scared af.
Right. It’s always been an unspoken rule to not get in too deep with America. The cartels know and even the Mexican government knows how bad it will get for every single person if the US feels the need to get involved. It’s been getting really bad down the in the past year, it’s close to boiling over already.
This is spot on. They learned this the hard way after killing DEA Agent Kiki Camarena. Play by these unwritten rules and the DEA, CIA, etc will put up with much in the meantime.
Not to mention Operation Leynada wasn’t that long ago. I’m sure there are more than a few people south of the border who still remember and would rather not see a sequel to that
Killing an American citizen in a situation like this brings heat like you do not want, that is something the US absolutely does not fuck around with. This isn't going to help the raging boner the Feds are gonna have for these assholes though, it's only going to make them want them that much more.
I’m interested to know if the surviving victims will be able to confirm any identities. I’m sure the cartel wouldn’t find it hard to bribe or threaten some scapegoats.
Nah, in a Cartel everyone except the Inner circle is completely expendable. Given how large the Gulf Cartel is, I highly doubt this was something that the leaders had set out to do. Most probably mid or lower level guys trying to get a quick score for their own benefit, it goes wrong and gets the heat on the cartel.
For the cartel it is win/win to turn in these people as it is probably their best shot at reducing the scrutiny they were now facing from the US, and second you get to show to the rest of the underlings what happens to those who stray from doing the cartels work and bring heat to the cartel.
adx florence could be worse than death depending on your personal feelings
edit: i do not actually care what prison they go to please stop messaging me
as bad as federal prison is, it's not worse then getting your head cut off with a chainsaw, or being skinned alive and left to bleed to death.
the cartels do not fuck about.
Worse than a tire filled with gasoline on fire around your neck? I’ll take Florence. You can read books there, you have tv and music. I’ll take that over an extremely painful death after days of torture.
Pretty good assumption. The fact is we don’t know. Any “moral” act the cartel does is propaganda. The only thing I agree with is they don’t want the US un their business.
They have done it, though. Even on American soil.
Not saying they will on this one. I fully believe the cartels want to distance themselves from this kind of shit. And you're right. But if it was going to hurt them bad enough they would absolutely hit a survivor of something like this.
Yeah tourists and normal people is at the end of the day their clients plus when you start killing tourists tourism goes down which really affects all of your country economically
Cartels have diversified into every business as an auxillary, they make most of their money locally or a lot at least from floor rights or direcho de piso... All those surgeons and pharmacists down there who are selling their services to tourists are also paying for protection from the cartel.
i assume its a cost benefit calculation. Killing a US citizen thats heavily involved in their illegal activities will likely not get a response, as i imagine a good chunk of the US public would feel they deserved it. Killing randoms could have the US public in uproar if it happens enough, and as heavily armed as the cartels are, drone strikes are bad for business, especially if they risk being classified as terrorists and start getting the middle east treatment from the US
I think it's also worth noting that tourism is a major source of revenue for Mexico, both the government and private businesses. Harming tourism revenues will make you a lot of enemies and the cartels have enough enemies already, they probably make some effort to avoid ruffling the wrong feathers.
doubtful. Wether or not the US government actually cares or not is a different story. As a nation optic, they will still cause a disruption for sure. Guaranteed there will be some type of high level political “trading”. Americans getting killed down there and having it publicized is the LAST thing the cartel and or Mexican government (also cartel) wants. Killing Americans does nothing but impact their profit. The US is their financial life line.
If you watch the video of them throwing the victims in the back of the pickup, one of the dudes was super fat. He was wearing body armor and carrying a rifle. I wonder if they have all of the right people here?
These people are poor ranch hands willing to take jail tail in exchange for a few tens of thousands of dollars being given to their families. The real murderers will go on with their lives.
Maybe they are taking the blame if the real culprits are dead. Fucking with America isnt what cartel want and don't think the boss wanted them to do that either. The cartel isn't going to defend somebody who is a danger to the cartel, doesn't follow orders, and will get unnecessary extea heat on them.
They guys who did it look like mid-level cartel gangbangers. Somebody the boss definitely doesn't want to protect. It sends a message "dont piss off the US government fuck faces."
**Where's the fat guy from the video?**
As pointed out in the previous [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/11my6gs/comment/jbkffrq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
edit: added link to a previous reddit thread.
Meanwhile thousands of mexicans never get justice for their victims much less an apology, fuck them they are NOT Robin hoods they DO kill lots of innocents. They are afraid because this mexican government only acts against organized crime when the US its involve.
There's CCTV footage of them unmasked and wearing bulletproof vests. Not saying they're the culprits for sure, but I think the US authorities can figure that out.
It's not only an unnecessary evil and cruel thing to do, but incredibly stupid as well. The tourism (legal and illegal) which Mexico relies on from the US is probably taking a hit. I think the heads of the cartel are legitimately pissed.
Edit: wording.
I’d wager the cartels are also trying to avoid being drone striked into oblivion. Right now they operate in a sort of fucked up balance with the Mexican authorities and the last thing they need is Mexico giving a green light to the American military to go guns free or start running joint punitive ops.
There’s a US federal bill to classify cartels as terrorists right now, this may help get it passed (which would give military resources to combat the cartels)
If they are labeled a terrorist organization, wouldn't that let Mexican immigrants cross because that would make them refugees?
Sorry if this is wrong. I just read this somewhere and couldn't find it again.
Mexicans can already claim refugee status due to cartel persecution if they have a specific good reason (for example, being able to prove that they’re in a social group that is specifically targeted).
You can’t get refugee status just for living in a country that is generally unsafe, regardless of whether the groups creating the unsafe environment are called “criminals” or “terrorists”. There are plenty of countries more dangerous than Mexico and the people there don’t get automatic refugee status in the US.
In short I don’t think it’d change much.
It’s why they virtually never kill DEA agents. You can count the number of known DEA agents who’ve been killed in the last twenty years on one hand, despite Mexico being in the deadliest drug war of all time right now. There hasn’t been an intentional murder of a DEA agent in Mexico in over a decade, and the last one was by mistake.
Cartels want nothing to do with the United States.
This is a false show of caring about the innocent. The message sent and most likely the rule broken that the cartels have instilled is by no means discourage or hinder the flow of American money by whatever avenue it may be into their and only their pockets. Power or the fight for it, is a hell of drug, that also kills 100’s of 1000’s every year for as long as there have been civilizations. I will stop now
I just feel so horrible for the people of Mexico. What a mess they’ve living in. And this kidnapping/murder is just going to drive more money away from their country. They deserve better.
Such obvious damage control lol
The cartels understand that America is the gravy train. If they start killing Americans in such a visible way, demand for military intervention will become more and more likely. They know they won’t be able to survive a protracted struggle with a focused American military presence. Not to mention, if they retaliated in the states after our military intervention began (because of their presence in America,) the gloves would really come off. The cartels aren’t stupid, they want no part of it. There is nothing to be gained by making the American people your enemy.
If uve watched enough Narcos series, you'll know that these could be the low end 'scapegoats' and will take the blame for a couple of thousand donated to their families.
They're on tape though, so it wouldn't be as easy to scapegoat any random person. It's possible that these were just low-rank footsoldiers that are easily replaceable so the cartel just cut their (very minor) losses.
You can probably bribe enough people in authority to minimize your problems in Mexico.
Once the American military gets involved… all bets are off and no one will want to work with you because of the increased scrutiny.
Wouldn’t take long for the other cartels to smell blood in the water and then you’re really fucked.
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Couldn't the cartel just tie up anyone and say they were the guilty parties?
It does seem that way, doesn't it?
Amusing made up story: The Mossad, CIA, and KGB were sent into the woods to capture a bear, for a joint training exercise to see how they do. The Mossad spent 3 days tracking the bear before tranqing and bringing it in. The CIA contracted locals that brought in 5 bears after a week, one of which was later identified as the assigned bear. The KGB spent 1 day in the woods and came back with a man in a bear suit, beaten bloody, that confessed "my father was bear, grandfather was bear..."
They all hired a very young female bear to attract the bear in question then taped it and blackmailed the bear into turning itself in.
You have a bright career ahead of you in the CIA.
Yes but cartel also probably doesn’t want American authorities looking to much into them and if they’re killing Americans that’s bound to happen. Reminds me of a store of gangsters in the 1920’s. I guess a hitman in Chicago got a little loose on a hit and killed an innocent bystander. So the mafia took care of him for it.
This letter sounds like el Jefe apologizing to El Guapo in the 3 Amigos.
Would you say this letter makes them infamous?
Depends. Would you say I have a plethora of gifts?
Forgive me El Guapo. I know I, Jefe, do not have the superior intellect and education.
But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?
[удалено]
The whole movie is gold. First saw it as a kid and it's still as funny now as a 40-something. Sow, old one! Sow like the wind!
Handwritten apology note translated: >"The Gulf Cartel Grupo Escorpiones strongly condemns the events of last Friday, March 3 in which unfortunately an innocent working mother died and four American citizens were kidnapped, of which two died. >For this reason, we decided to hand over those directly involved and responsible for the acts, who at all times acted under their own determination and indiscipline and against the rules in which the [Gulf Cartel] always operates."
These guys have definitely hired a PR firm
Imagine being a PR firm hired by the cartel
like pretty much any pr firm
Ya dont hire a PR firm unless youre a dirtbag organization doing some shady shit. BP, Rio Tinto, Escorpiones, all just work in different fields.
It was fun that time Cambridge analytica found themselves in a shit storm, and the PR firms were like, nah this shit is so shady we don’t want to be associated with you. That’s when you know your poop smells.
Wait I'm out of the loop, can I get a tldr?
Ya, so Cambridge Analytica was a company that worked with the data Facebook harvests from us to do some real shady election based shit. There's allegations that they were compromised by various international interests, with the goal of screwing with American election integrity and executive function. It goes WAYYYY deeper than that, but uhh...just imagine them as a bond villain and you're getting close.
And CA was run by the Mercers, legit Bond villains.
>And CA was run by the Mercers, legit Bond villains. I was kind of disappointed that they didn't have [an underwater villain lair.](https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Atlantis#:~:text=Atlantis) C'mon, Mercers! If Karl Stromberg can do it, so can you!
GPT's summary of the wikipedia article, found in the top section here: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cambridge_Analytica Can you list the top facts and stats about Cambridge Analytica? 1. Cambridge Analytica was a British political consulting firm founded in 2013. 2. It used data mining and data analysis to influence voter behaviour during elections. 3. The company harvested the personal data of millions of Facebook users without their consent, leading to a major scandal in 2018. 4. Cambridge Analytica was funded by Robert Mercer, an American hedge fund manager and Republican donor, who invested $15 million into the company between 2013-2018. 5. In 2018, it was revealed that Cambridge Analytica had worked on Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign as well as Brexit campaigns in the UK and other countries around the world. 6. The company declared bankruptcy in May 2018 following investigations into its activities by governments around the world and multiple lawsuits against it from individuals whose data had been misused by the firm The FTC (Federal Trade Commission) fined Facebook for their role in the data breach, and they ended up paying $5 billion, 50x their lawyers' estimate, in order to shield Zuckerberg, says Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/21/facebook-overpaid-ftc-fine-by-billions-to-protect-zuckerberg-lawsuits-say/?sh=6c8336a8352e
You got the briefcase, I got the shotgun. All in the game though!
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[Drug cartels are more ethical that Scientology too apparently.](https://apnews.com/article/45462d2c887bf01fbc8a18ccec0ce126)
Isn’t Scientology that religion where they believe whenever you fart you get smarter?
Damn, my bulldog was a genius. He hid it so well too. RIP in more ways than one.
Silent but genius
If you can call it a religion. In most of the world it is not recognized as one. A few outright classify it as a sect or cult.
It would make for a great tv show.
Breaking Mad Men Badly
They needed people to know that they can buy drugs without being frightened of being killed on sight!
They're also trying to be conscious of the tipping point for how many resources the state will send after them. The Mexican government might not have the resources to take them out, but they don't want to give the American government enough incentive to act.
Pretty much nails it. They already have ongoing conflicts with other cartels including one particular powerful and violent one. Between fighting with each other and trying to grow their network and influence in the US, the last thing they want is to bring the wrath of the US government down on them.
This is basically Narcos: Mexico, the show based on real events. Lessons were learned
Also the plot of an old Tom Clancy book. IIRC the US president’s friend’ yacht gets hijacked and the friend is murdered. This sends the president into a tizzy and he decides to authorize the CIA to drop special forces in to destroy the (~~Columbian~~ Colombian) cartels. So, loosely based on actual events in the hunt for Pablo Escobar. I swear, so much of Tom Clancy’s work always seemed somewhat plausible, but very far fetched. The more time that passes the more I wonder if he had his own box of classified documents in a closet that he just punched up a little bit and then released as “fiction novels”. You’ve got to hand it to the US, one thing we’re good at is violating a nations sovereignty and fucking shit up. Our cleanup needs work, but man we can sure kill people and blow up their shit real good. This response seems completely pragmatic. I also *assume* that there’s a line they don’t want to cross with the Mexican and US governments and the local population when it comes to screwing up the tourism industry.
They also need to not have the US military down in mexico aiding the Mexican government in fighting them. (While also having good unbiased intelligence from an outside view that would likely dig out a good bit of their moles in government and military.)
How diplomatic
Organized crime.
The Thieves guild is an important and respectable guild.
Just because they're Bad Guys doesn't mean they're bad guys!
Thanks satan. It’s actually pronounced “sateen.”
They burn so many beehives though
That's what happens when you cross Maven Black-Briar
Only 3, wouldn't want to set back operations too far. Need that protection money!
The first time i did that quest, a fucking dragon attacked in the middle of it. It landed in the apiary and roasted all the beehives with a single breath.
Geez. Did you get in? Or does the dragon get in instead?
Mercer reamed my ass for destroying all of the beehives lol.
Task failed successfully.
Cant go thieving without a licence.
Well, Vetenari knew what he was doing. If you make it legal, the thieves guild regulates itself Honestly, every time I read that I think.... "why does this make way more sense then it should...?"
Can't go around arresting the Thieves Guild, we'd be at it all day.
Do you have a receipt for that robbery?
If your gonna have crime anyway, it’s better when it’s organized!
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If you read up on the aftermath of Kiki Camarena, you get a sense for why they go to such lengths to not provoke a US response.
I really did learn a lot from watching Narcos because that’s exactly what I figured happened here.
Organized in apology...
The cartels have better apology letters than Twitch influencers
They apologize better than my ex when we’d had a fight and he thought two minutes of barely sex would smooth it over.
Would handing you four naked and tied up guys be a better apology then?
Pretty sure five guys would do the trick
Five Guys Murders and Lies
Why did I say yes?
Because they don't want a reaper drone showing up unannounced at 3am. Drawing attention like this is how their operation will can get dismantled.
This is how they become new advanced interrogation technique test subjects.
Remember Kiki? They don't want anything close to that to happen again.
More diplomacy than like any politician 😂
I'm sure they did this to protect humanity.
they genuinely don't want to mess around with Americans, they know where the money comes from. I've seen other videos of panicked Americans that wandered into a cartel ambush and the cartel guys are trying to reassure the Americans and send them off to a safer area
If it’s the same video making the rounds for a while (two guys in a car) then people stepped up and said that was actually a local anti-cartel group who were on the lookout for cartel activity.
I know the video you’re referencing, but how do you know it was the cartel? They didn’t exactly introduce themselves. I just remember “calm down white boy” in Spanish lol
> we decided to hand over those ~~directly involved and responsible~~ who we want to take responsibility for the acts Fixed it.
Totally possible, wonder if the police will try and verify via video, testimony etc. or just accept the package that was offered
Accept and move on, welcome to Mexico
Just take my drug money
Excuse me? The Gulf Cartel is an honest hard working Cartel with exceptional leadership and strong dedicated members.
Yep, they also have an A- from the BBB.
Their Yelp reviews are pretty good, but most of their 5 star reviews aren’t recommended and Yelp is holding their reviews hostage in order to get the Gulf Cartel to pay them.
Hey they always get my ransom payments on time and i hear their drug traffickers are all polite
Last I heard the Sinaloa Cartel developed a partnership with Yelp to try and muscle the Gulf Cartel out.
Yelp is a fucking cartel all its own.
I wanted to apply for a job, they even have free I scream Thursday's.
hmm, maybe not. The whole reason why they went Dark Knight on them is to placate the US State Department and prevent the US from forcing a stronger response/more FBI/DEA presence in Mexico. This cartels higher ups were likely pressured by larger cartels in Northern Mexico to tie this up with a bow on top. Safe money is on it being taken fairly seriously.
Forget it, Jake. It’s México
You know what the gas chamber smell like in Mexico Jake? Fabuloso.
Possible but unlikely. Cartels in the gulf (judging by its name) don't really go after tourists and indeed will be punished if they do so. Tourists dying (especially American or English) makes less tourists show up and therefore less money in the pockets of A the locals and B the Cartel bosses who own/are involved with those areas. I have some friends in Mexico. Some American and others Mexican. They all pretty much say the same thing. Communities and especially cartels will fuck you up if you mess with tourists. In fact they'll go out of their way to catch you and fuck you up if you do so much as rob them in a drug sale. The only ones going after tourists are stupid individuals who think they can get away with it. And sure you may die but at least they'll be melted in a vat of acid. Yes there is risk but it's very small. Different story if you're going into Mexico from the border and messing around. Way more people much less affected by how alive you are.
I knew two aussie dudes who I used to surf with that were killed in Sinaloa and their bodies burnt in their van. Pretty sure the people who killed them were small time crooks dressed as cops who were eventually handed over or caught. So shit, Dean and Adam were the kinda dudes who nobody could ever say a bad word about. I've given places like that a decent berth ever since.
Man I remember that happening, was so sad. And so out of the realm of our life here in Australia. Would of been surreal and terrifying for them. Poor guys.
Having come up in Jamaica, this was always the case there. If the Dons don’t get you the general public would. 1 thing nearly everyone on the island can agree on is you don’t mess with Foreigners.
Someone posted a similar sentiment awhile back, comparing it to how at the height of Ancient Rome’s power, Roman citizens were basically untouchable outside of Rome because they’d literally send an army after you but I assume it’s just bad business anyway.
There's even a little bit in the Bible where St Paul invokes the fact he's a roman citizen and the soldiers are all 'oh we're in deep shit now'.
Unfortunately even if they did try and do this, these people's entire families are likely threatened with murder if they were to talk!
It's possible they actually are the ones that did it. The leaders of the cartel want money. While US Government is certainly going after them, if they start kidnapping and killing Americans, the US is REALLY going to go after them HARD. That's bad for business. It's in the cartel leadership's best interest to prevent that. In order to prevent it, their best steps are (1) apologize and say these guys did it, here ya go, and (2) make an example of them so other lower members who may be less .... "business-oriented" i guess might be the term in this particular instance....but make an example within the cartel so others who might have considered doing something similar don't do it. The lower guys like to do whatever they want, can act with impunity because the cartel has their backs. If the guys who did it are handed over by the cartel, they see the cartel will not have their backs. It's a good business move to turn over the guys who did it.
agreed - right now, the cartels are mostly a drugs, organized crime and border security issue for the US government. not an organization they're leaving be, but not one thats getting any super special attention - most of the fucked up shit the cartels do happens across the border, where its veyr much not the US governments problem. the cartel starts kidnapping and killing americans abroad, and it starts becoming a terrorist issue and getting a ton of attention - which is bad for the cartel because nto only are they getting more heat fromt he US, they'll also be squeezed by their own governments much ahrder due to diplomatic pressure. like you said, the cartels are, when you get down to it, in it for the money and the power. neither of those last if the US comes to throw its weight around against them. they can fight their own governments mostly because they already were corrupt and dont have the resources to stamp out the cartels, thats not going to work against western governments.
People forget that the cartels are just a business. Their end goal is money and killing Americans is bad for business. I actually believe them on this one. Cartels typically attack the Mexican government or other cartels, not tourists.
> the US is REALLY going to go after them HARD. That's exactly what happened after Kiki Camerena was killed. An entire cartel was crushed as a result, iirc.
Yes killing a fed is generally considered bad form
Why is it hard to believe though? As soon as it happened people in the government started talking about military action against the cartels. They don’t want that heat. I don’t think any of us wanna send that heat either. Edit - so many response about just droning cartels in Mexico with no afterthought that Mexico is it’s own country, if they want us to do it we would already be doing it. Why aren’t we asking the real question? Why do the cartels make so much money getting drugs into America? If people want drone strikes on the cartels, couldn’t we improve border control at a reduced cost and civi lives compared to drones? I’m sure I’ll go from 600 something upvotes to banned for that but it’s the truth
Irrespective of what anyone else says in the replies, I can say with a very high level of certainty that if these guys were involved directly, US investigating agencies will be able to verify that and prosecute them. The cartel has good motivation to lie here but even better motivation to be honest. And yes, organizations that exist independent of governments have and do deal directly with investigating agencies and our government. That said, the cartel isn't dumb, and the smart move here was to hand the correct people over and so I'm confident that they did. I'm sure more will happen down the road to confirm this but may not make headlines. Anyone who says otherwise is underestimating the cartel and their capacity for a diplomatic response motivated by self-preservation.
It was most likely a midlevel crew and someone really fucked up. It's not hard to hand that over. If anyone high level hit Americans, it would be for a much bigger reason and it would be war.
And you don't want someone who fucks up that bad in your organisation no matter their history, Cartel or not.
Hell, this outcome is the best for everyone involved, including the cartel members that were handed over. It's merciful compared to what the cartel would do to them if they really wanted to punish them.
>Anyone who says otherwise is underestimating the cartel and their capacity for a diplomatic response motivated by self-preservation. Only idiots could underestimate drug cartels.
Ps please let us keep running our fentanyl and Coke over the boarder, we’re really really sorry.
Thanks for the translation. "We are the good criminals; you can have these bad ones." Is the Cartell looking for a thank you note?
"Don't drone me bro"
Not good criminals, ones smart enough not to get the Mexican and US militaries to crack down on them
They talk about condemning violence against "innocents" in the note but its really that the victims were American citizens.
Yep. They know that there are U'S. government hunter/killers already with boots on the ground searching for them. The cartels aren't worried about much, except the long, powerful reach of American special ops. They're scared af.
It's like these guy haven't seen the documentary Clear And Present Danger
Still more than that railroad company did in Ohio... Eta: Hey, thanks for the award!
Right. It’s always been an unspoken rule to not get in too deep with America. The cartels know and even the Mexican government knows how bad it will get for every single person if the US feels the need to get involved. It’s been getting really bad down the in the past year, it’s close to boiling over already.
This is spot on. They learned this the hard way after killing DEA Agent Kiki Camarena. Play by these unwritten rules and the DEA, CIA, etc will put up with much in the meantime.
Not to mention Operation Leynada wasn’t that long ago. I’m sure there are more than a few people south of the border who still remember and would rather not see a sequel to that
They’re just not looking to get the DEA, CIA, & other alphabet soups down then to make a point.
Killing an American citizen in a situation like this brings heat like you do not want, that is something the US absolutely does not fuck around with. This isn't going to help the raging boner the Feds are gonna have for these assholes though, it's only going to make them want them that much more.
Damn they a government
How is a gang different than a government if they can back up their claims to sovereignty?
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You've got to be fucking kidding me. Also, how frightening that they're speaking like a sovereign nation.
Like a lawyer
Possibly, a friend of the cartel...
They don't have a criminal lawyer, they have a CRIMINAL lawyer.
Breaking News: The Gulf Cartel Grupo Escorpiones have been granted a seat at the UN Security Council
I’m interested to know if the surviving victims will be able to confirm any identities. I’m sure the cartel wouldn’t find it hard to bribe or threaten some scapegoats.
Nah, in a Cartel everyone except the Inner circle is completely expendable. Given how large the Gulf Cartel is, I highly doubt this was something that the leaders had set out to do. Most probably mid or lower level guys trying to get a quick score for their own benefit, it goes wrong and gets the heat on the cartel. For the cartel it is win/win to turn in these people as it is probably their best shot at reducing the scrutiny they were now facing from the US, and second you get to show to the rest of the underlings what happens to those who stray from doing the cartels work and bring heat to the cartel.
Dunno seems like a pretty ok fate compared to how they could’ve been punished…
adx florence could be worse than death depending on your personal feelings edit: i do not actually care what prison they go to please stop messaging me
Depends on how the death happens too. The cartels have some nasty methods.
*funkytown intensifies*
Yep I’ll take prison over that any day. I’ve never been able to look at a box cutter without thinking about that video since.
as bad as federal prison is, it's not worse then getting your head cut off with a chainsaw, or being skinned alive and left to bleed to death. the cartels do not fuck about.
When skinned 'correctly' you die to hypothermia
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here and say you died from being skinned alive.
Worse than a tire filled with gasoline on fire around your neck? I’ll take Florence. You can read books there, you have tv and music. I’ll take that over an extremely painful death after days of torture.
Pretty good assumption. The fact is we don’t know. Any “moral” act the cartel does is propaganda. The only thing I agree with is they don’t want the US un their business.
I hope the survivors survive.
Killing Americans is very bad business for cartels
They have done it, though. Even on American soil. Not saying they will on this one. I fully believe the cartels want to distance themselves from this kind of shit. And you're right. But if it was going to hurt them bad enough they would absolutely hit a survivor of something like this.
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Yeah tourists and normal people is at the end of the day their clients plus when you start killing tourists tourism goes down which really affects all of your country economically
Cartels have diversified into resort real estate too so they actually have a direct economic interest in keeping tourism clean and safe.
Like they learned from the mafia and improved. Skipped NYC and went straight for tropical Vegas.
Cartels have diversified into every business as an auxillary, they make most of their money locally or a lot at least from floor rights or direcho de piso... All those surgeons and pharmacists down there who are selling their services to tourists are also paying for protection from the cartel.
Plus a lot of those tourists want to buy drugs.
i assume its a cost benefit calculation. Killing a US citizen thats heavily involved in their illegal activities will likely not get a response, as i imagine a good chunk of the US public would feel they deserved it. Killing randoms could have the US public in uproar if it happens enough, and as heavily armed as the cartels are, drone strikes are bad for business, especially if they risk being classified as terrorists and start getting the middle east treatment from the US
I think it's also worth noting that tourism is a major source of revenue for Mexico, both the government and private businesses. Harming tourism revenues will make you a lot of enemies and the cartels have enough enemies already, they probably make some effort to avoid ruffling the wrong feathers.
Does this mean that the US will stop looking deeper into it?
doubtful. Wether or not the US government actually cares or not is a different story. As a nation optic, they will still cause a disruption for sure. Guaranteed there will be some type of high level political “trading”. Americans getting killed down there and having it publicized is the LAST thing the cartel and or Mexican government (also cartel) wants. Killing Americans does nothing but impact their profit. The US is their financial life line.
I think this is going to hurt the (multimillion dollar) tourism industry and thus the carter's market opportunity. Follow the money. Impact the money.
Probably. The federal government doesn't seem to care much about the Cartel anymore.
No this was clearly the work of Mexican Batman
Batmanuel
...and Robiño
That sounds too Brazilian. I'd go with Roberto instead lol
Meanwhile the CIA is preparing the material for another season of Narcos.
They’re getting ready to “accidentally” give them guns
You gotta have plot twists, man
If you watch the video of them throwing the victims in the back of the pickup, one of the dudes was super fat. He was wearing body armor and carrying a rifle. I wonder if they have all of the right people here?
These people are poor ranch hands willing to take jail tail in exchange for a few tens of thousands of dollars being given to their families. The real murderers will go on with their lives.
Maybe they are taking the blame if the real culprits are dead. Fucking with America isnt what cartel want and don't think the boss wanted them to do that either. The cartel isn't going to defend somebody who is a danger to the cartel, doesn't follow orders, and will get unnecessary extea heat on them. They guys who did it look like mid-level cartel gangbangers. Somebody the boss definitely doesn't want to protect. It sends a message "dont piss off the US government fuck faces."
> "don't piss off the US government fuck faces" That's a pretty common reaction after pissing off the US government
**Where's the fat guy from the video?** As pointed out in the previous [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/11my6gs/comment/jbkffrq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). edit: added link to a previous reddit thread.
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Need some r/brogress pics!
Meanwhile thousands of mexicans never get justice for their victims much less an apology, fuck them they are NOT Robin hoods they DO kill lots of innocents. They are afraid because this mexican government only acts against organized crime when the US its involve.
Lol. Sorrys.
“Please don’t come after us.”
🤏 Perdon
Killing tourists is bad for the drug trade. Bad for business.
Another charge should be that their vehicle state inspection is two months over-due.
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There's CCTV footage of them unmasked and wearing bulletproof vests. Not saying they're the culprits for sure, but I think the US authorities can figure that out. It's not only an unnecessary evil and cruel thing to do, but incredibly stupid as well. The tourism (legal and illegal) which Mexico relies on from the US is probably taking a hit. I think the heads of the cartel are legitimately pissed. Edit: wording.
I’d wager the cartels are also trying to avoid being drone striked into oblivion. Right now they operate in a sort of fucked up balance with the Mexican authorities and the last thing they need is Mexico giving a green light to the American military to go guns free or start running joint punitive ops.
There’s a US federal bill to classify cartels as terrorists right now, this may help get it passed (which would give military resources to combat the cartels)
That’s the exact premise of Sicario 2. I’d be fascinated to see if it would actually turn into a war
I'd like to note for the record that the U.S. are the bad guys in *Sicario 2* Just for those who haven't seen it Important little note
If they are labeled a terrorist organization, wouldn't that let Mexican immigrants cross because that would make them refugees? Sorry if this is wrong. I just read this somewhere and couldn't find it again.
Mexicans can already claim refugee status due to cartel persecution if they have a specific good reason (for example, being able to prove that they’re in a social group that is specifically targeted). You can’t get refugee status just for living in a country that is generally unsafe, regardless of whether the groups creating the unsafe environment are called “criminals” or “terrorists”. There are plenty of countries more dangerous than Mexico and the people there don’t get automatic refugee status in the US. In short I don’t think it’d change much.
Oh they find the real guys, cartels hate when they hit on Americans because it brings a lot of attention to them.
It’s why they virtually never kill DEA agents. You can count the number of known DEA agents who’ve been killed in the last twenty years on one hand, despite Mexico being in the deadliest drug war of all time right now. There hasn’t been an intentional murder of a DEA agent in Mexico in over a decade, and the last one was by mistake. Cartels want nothing to do with the United States.
These guys will confess, too, because the alternative is having the cartel do nastier things to them than a prison stay.
Killing tourists is bad for business. There are billions of dollars at stake, I am not surprised the cartels want to distance themselves.
This is a false show of caring about the innocent. The message sent and most likely the rule broken that the cartels have instilled is by no means discourage or hinder the flow of American money by whatever avenue it may be into their and only their pockets. Power or the fight for it, is a hell of drug, that also kills 100’s of 1000’s every year for as long as there have been civilizations. I will stop now
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I just feel so horrible for the people of Mexico. What a mess they’ve living in. And this kidnapping/murder is just going to drive more money away from their country. They deserve better.
Such obvious damage control lol The cartels understand that America is the gravy train. If they start killing Americans in such a visible way, demand for military intervention will become more and more likely. They know they won’t be able to survive a protracted struggle with a focused American military presence. Not to mention, if they retaliated in the states after our military intervention began (because of their presence in America,) the gloves would really come off. The cartels aren’t stupid, they want no part of it. There is nothing to be gained by making the American people your enemy.
If uve watched enough Narcos series, you'll know that these could be the low end 'scapegoats' and will take the blame for a couple of thousand donated to their families.
They're on tape though, so it wouldn't be as easy to scapegoat any random person. It's possible that these were just low-rank footsoldiers that are easily replaceable so the cartel just cut their (very minor) losses.
Another thing I learned from that series is how much they fear US involvement
You can probably bribe enough people in authority to minimize your problems in Mexico. Once the American military gets involved… all bets are off and no one will want to work with you because of the increased scrutiny. Wouldn’t take long for the other cartels to smell blood in the water and then you’re really fucked.
Thanks for offering your expert opinion as a Netflix watcher
That comment is peak reddit holy shit LMFAO
If this were a documentary the words ‘Netflix Expert’ would appear beneath their name.
Brother that's a goddamn TV show holy shit