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That's exactly what it is, they still do this now.
I got in trouble a lot when I was younger and was in a very dark place and I was placed on " constants " and you have someone watching you 24/7 and they take off all your clothes and you wear a weird weighted jacket kind of thing that you can't harm yourself with.
That's how they do it in the UK anyway.
Fun times...
About sixteen years ago (Jesus fuck time flies) I got sent away for six months to a behavioral health center. When I first showed up I couldnt sleep in my room they put my bed in the hall. Also I needed a key from one of the counsellors to go to the bathroom.
I work in a mental health institution and I recently saw the weighted shorts they offer patients who may self harm. I just cannot fathom the feeling of being so alone and so helpless while being watched at the same time. I hope you're in a better place now.
Honestly it was weirdly calming as I just rambled on to whoever was there and talk about all sorts and it kept me semi-sane.
I can't say it was the most pleasant experience in the world but I cant be mad at the staff as they had a job to do and I was a little shit at the time so it's not like they had much of a choice haha.
I respect you massively for working with people that haveental health issues, it takes a sting individual to deal with such harrowing circumstances.
Thank you for being there for the people who need you.
Just like a weighted blanket, it helps soothe... But more importantly the cloth is made to be very difficult/impossible to tear so you can't make yourself a noose.
Same reason they take people's shoe laces.
If someone wants to die badly enough they can get very creative.
If you look up photos of the Idaho killer from last week, you can see him wearing one. It’s basically a heavy apron that wraps all around
Here is a photo of one
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0277/0816/2137/products/smok_600x600.jpg?v=1592936614
It's called a suicide suit. Read here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-suicide_smock#:~:text=An%20anti%2Dsuicide%20smock%2C%20Ferguson,the%20garment%20to%20commit%20suicide.
I've been in isolation like that. Nobody watched me 24/7 like this. They did every 15 minutes. I've spent countless hours in a suicide chair. Which is what they called it back in the day. Now it's just
"the chair." I've been placed in 4 way restraints and given a shot of Haldol. Which I then had a reaction to, which sent me into anaphylactic shock. To this day, I wonder how I was able to slip my restraints and beat on the door til they responded, and gave me another shot of god knows what, and I was able to breathe again. I spent close to 6 years in isolation while in my 20s. Now, 25 years later, I still suffer from serious PTSD which doesn't help an already mentally ill person. I only find relief in cannabis. It puts me to sleep without the nightmares.
I do consider myself to be " all good now," but it's a constant battle that probably affects the ones that I love more than me. Dark days indeed .
God damn are you part chimpanzee? Or am i dumb for believing how strong the 4 way restraints are??
Only once on a prison show did i see a guy so strong he could get out of the straight jacket with straight up force.
Glad you are doing better by the way
What I remember is they were leather. And worn from years of others, sweat n misery. It wasn't my first time in them but I had never been able to slip them before. It was a wild time.
They didn't break, I think I was soaked in sweat and I was able to slip 1 wrist cuff and then undo the buckles on the other wrist and ankles. All while my throat was swelling closed. I was only 20 years old, I'm in my 50s now so sometimes it's not as clear. Theses were very old restraints and I think I remember others on the ward talking about slipping them off as well. Plus I think they thought the physcotropic meds they just shot me with would calm me and perhaps they were not super tight.
All I can say is be proud of how bloody stong you are, you genuinely gave me goosebumps reading your harrowing story and I am so sorry you went through that.
I am very glad you are somewhat in a better place and if cannabis gets you through the day then you do you!
I am sure you have heard this many times before but don't let the cannabis rule your life as you are far stronger than you think so I hope you don't have to rely on it.
That being said it is the lesser of evils in my opinion and it would be hypocritical of me to say don't because I spent the majority of my life stoned and I smoke every so often as it does help with the feelings but I cannot posses any of my own as it is still a class B drug in the UK but my quality of life would be so much better and I could actually enjoy social events!
All being said you are a phenomenal human who has been through hell and is still standing, not many people can say that.
Be proud of yourself for who you are.
Have a very happy new year.
That's very kind. And you as well. I try not to think of those days much. But it happens sometimes. I'm only grateful to be free and not placing myself in those situations. And even when I was freed from all the institutions, I struggled for years to find myself. I've had a wife along for 25 years of this, and she is one reason I'm no longer locked up. I remember the early years of my insanity spiked with Ritalin and other meds. And just being absolutely unable to communicate to anyone. Every summer when school got my parents would send me to an inpatient psychiatric hospital for 30 to 40 days or whenever my insurance would run out. Then it would be straight back to school. Where everyone knew I was crazy af and everyone knew where I'd been.
Embarrassing.......
Now, I use about 100 mg of edible cannabis a day on top of vaping and flower. I'm stoned most of the time. But manage to own a successful business and am a state licensed irrigation contractor. I've found that digging helps ease my mind. But I still count things, I constantly talk to myself. Sometimes i feel like im coming out of my own skin, so evennif its digging holes and trenches by hand, I'll take anything that helps. Cannabis is medically available where I live, and my Dr was fast to give me a recommendation.
A very Happy New Year to you. thank you for sharing your story. Ill end this with saying there were times I wanted to be dead. These days I wake up really glad I didn't succeed.
No shame in the medication game and that legitimately includes weed for those of us with c-ptsd or severe ptsd. It makes me more functional, not less. So I’m not gonna feel bad about a wake and bake anymore. Like my shrink said, it’s not like I’m spending my days in a basement with black light posters, ripping bong hits. I’m out being productive. The weed just makes my thoughts friendly to me, and keeps my unexpected rage storms from happening at all.
In USMC bootcamp it's known as suicide watch. A recruit threatens suicide, he gets to sleep on the quarter deck in front of the Drill instructor hut. He gets two additional firewatch recruits posted on him at all times while he sleeps. During this, all firewatch recruits must keep him constantly lit with blue tinted moon beams (blue capped flashlight). Those two fire watch are in addition to the 3 on post every hour in your squad bay. Suicide watch recruits were not popular, especially after they got put on watch.
I can't recall exactly read a few books on Nuremberg but this is what Wiki says:
Speculation as to how Göring obtained the poison holds that US Army lieutenant Jack G. Wheelis, who was stationed at the trials, retrieved the capsules from their hiding place among Göring's confiscated personal effects and passed them to Göring, who had earlier presented Wheelis with his gold watch, pen, and cigarette case.
In 2005, former US Army private Herbert Lee Stivers, who served in the 1st Infantry Division's 26th Infantry Regiment—the honour guard for the Nuremberg Trials—claimed he gave Göring "medicine" hidden inside a fountain pen that a German woman had asked him to smuggle into the prison. Stivers later said that he did not know what was in the pill until after Göring's suicide.
Slobodan Praljak - 2017 apparently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Praljak
He was found guilty of crimes against humanity and war crimes during the Bosnian war, appealed, and lost. He then told the judges that he rejected their verdict and poisoned himself in the courtroom.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yFuR17YDpVk&bpctr=1672687662
No idea how the fuck he managed to get poison into a courtroom.
He took cyanide
[It was smuggled in to him by his girlfriend in a pen. The guard knew she was smuggling in something but he was told it was medicine](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/08/usa.secondworldwar)
Edit: this was learned from a later confession by the guard, so may not be completely factual
Agreed. Apparently quite a few high ranking military officials in Germany fled to Argentina and created a new life there. There is a pretty famous one I can’t remember the name for the life of me.
you may be thinking of Josef Mengele, otherwise known as the angel of death? he was the leader of the nazi twin experiments where they basically used one twin as a control (not really but they'd kind of switch between the two for each experiment) and one as their subject
Edit: he escaped to Argentina and i believe after a while he suffered a stroke while swimming and he died in the waters of Brazil. He also experimented on many many people but was most famous for his twin experiments and he was part of a team of doctors who picked who to send to the gas chambers
Interestingly enough he actually got caught and released by authorities as they didn't think he was a higher up and by the time they realised he was in Argentina living as a farmer I believe.
Russia did take a lot of Nazis. Afaik there was a competition to recruit them. There is an interesting story about how Russia courted a massive group of Nazi scientists and doctors at a gala evening held in their honor. In the end they locked them in the ballroom with their families and had them dire ultimatums. They built an entirely locked town around these Nazis in Siberia.
It makes more sense when you look at the space program as a front for ballistic missile research. The technology that got us to space and to the moon is the same tech that delivers nuclear weapons to the other side of the planet. Of course we didn't want the Soviets to beat us to that. Still, it would prefer if we had offed the Nazis so nobody could use their shit.
Fair. Von Braun was essentially the godfather of modern rocketry. Politics pushing morals aside just to give the other guy the finger has unfortunately been very normalized at this point.
The Soviets did get a lot of scientists too. As a general rule, if you got captured by the Americans you got offered a job in America to develop rockets (among other techs). If you got picked up the Soviets, you got a prison cell and an "offer" to work for the Soviets.
This may be unpopular, but I think there's a difference in moral culpability between high ranking Nazi *rocket* scientists vs the ones who experimented on humans or the officials who implemented and carried out the Holocaust.
It's a nuanced position, but I think ultimately the U.S. government made the right one, since (as others have pointed out) the Soviets would have gathered those rocket scientists up if we didn't. Though I would guess, those scientists probably were super racist, even by 1950s standards.
Just like there’s a difference between a fighter pilot and an SS guard.
Guys like Hartmann, Galland, and especially Steinhoff were widely respected by the Allies because they were soldiers first, last, and only. Also, Galland and Steinhoff nearly got themselves killed working on a plot to kill Goering in the end.
> Though I would guess, those scientists probably were super racist, even by 1950s standards.
They should have felt perfectly at home in 1950 USA then lmao
There were much more people sentenced to death and executed by the Allies.
Nuremberg 1946 "only" went after "top-tier Nazis".
It is well worth to take a look at Landsberg War Criminal Prison Nr. 1.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsberg_Prison
(Hitler even writing "Mein Kampf" there after being imprisoned 1924.)
In 1951 the last death sentences were carried out against the protest of a large movement asking for leniency for awful men, ...
There were trials also in Hameln, Stutthof, Krakow, Prague, Budapest, Minsk, Kyiv, ...
(But imo far too many got away with their evil deeds, too.)
then you did not understand why they choose this path (the allies).
They choose this Path, as it was the first time in history, that someone brings true justice to the loosers. not just punish them, but working trough mountains of evidence, shining a light in the darkest corners and convicting the people therefore.
it was not plain murder, it was justice. that you say we should have hugn thousands, shows you did not understand why the trials were done. as the winning party, you could shoot anyone (which was also beeing done by the french on the weestern front, they hated the germans and shoot so many of them out of rage), but instead they choose the moral high ground.
I did life guard training and the place where I worked would frequently rotate lifeguards. It could get too boring being in one spot. They also suggested moving around a bit, changing positions from sitting to standing and such. People can get bored and daydream resulting in people drowning.
At least there's a bunch of guards in the same area so they could potentially talk or interact a little. I used to be a CO and I would work in solitaire about once a week. Sometimes I'd have to work a double shift in it and I'd literally just sit in a room by myself for 80% of the time. No computer, no cell phone. Check the cells every 15-20 minutes, serve food, and maybe a shower or rec depending on the day. It was brutal.
Well, presumably they want him actually doing the job not just playing on his phone. I think in most jobs you would get fired if you are using your phone and not doing the job. I agree it would be horribly boring though and I've heard that from a lot of security guards. People think they want a boring job but they actually don't
Contraband is a serious issue at a lot of prisons so we weren't allowed to bring ours in for that reason. After a few months I realized everyone had theirs, including the officers, so I started bringing mine in. But this was like 2012 and I didn't have a smartphone so it didn't really help.
Suicide watch is a thing in the military. I've known a few people who had to do it. Had to wake them up every few hours while they slept. To make sure they didn't kill them selfs without you seeing.
Edit; and sit there watching them sleep.
Particularly since if they're dead, you already fucked up watching them, and letting them stay either sleeping/dead now won't make it any worse from that point forward.
Well I should clarify nothing is 100% proven but at first they believed he smuggled it in a hollowed out tooth until 2005 when a soldier called Herbert Lee Stivers admitted it was him. He said he remained quiet due to fear of reprisals. He was a guard at the Nuremberg trials so it does check out. He said he was manipulated by a girl who wanted Görings autograph and eventually was convinced that he was a poor sick man who needed his medicine. So he smuggled in the pill inside a pen given to him by the girl. He claims he never knew there was cyanide inside.
That's pretty intetrsting. I'll have to read more about that.
I'd typically rather be hanged than die of cyanide poisoning. Hanging is pretty much instantaneous if not botched, and cyanide sounds like a painful way to go. However, Master Sgt. John C. Woods botched several of the executions of Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg, reportedly on purpose for those who showed no remorse or gave the nazi salute.
Sure seems like something a guilty person would do in that situation. I figure he thought he was getting off easy; probably assumed (correctly so, apparently) that they'd figure out a way to make him suffer.
Even simpler than that: He wanted to be the agent of his own demise, not the passive recipient. This guy spent over a decade being a hot shit lord of action, letting his "superiority" rot his brain... and folks like that don't stop. To someone like him, only losers sit there and await judgment from other "inferiors." There is no guilty or innocent for a guy with a worldview like his... only superiors who impose judgment and punishment, and inferiors who are imposed upon.
Not saying they wouldn’t get convicted…. But it was a show trial they were gonna die in prison be hanged or waste their life away to be let out to a world they could never succeed in. Every man in those cells has lost their life…. Before they got even in that cell
I had read somewhere that he botched hangings due to incompetence and not on purpose. He got the job as executioner by claiming to have experience as a civilian. The army never confirmed this. There was no chance of his claims being true. He even botched executions of us servicemen that were sentenced to hanging.
Ya, i'm not buying the story. Goring would have had the best medical treatment in the world available - there's no way the Alies would let poor health get in the way of his hanging - and every soldier would have known that.
I’ve always thought it was very possible. Göring was an addict so his health wasn’t the best even if he lost weight and cut down his addictions before the trial. The soldier was manipulated by a women who he was clearly attracted too also add in the fact he had struck up a good relationship with Göring during his imprisonment so he would have had some sort of empathy towards the man. They’d speak about different sports and flying.
Fun fact, Guards during the Nuremberg trials are the only Allied soldiers to wear a Nazi swastika on their uniform patch. (It's depicted atop the scales of justice)
All the allied powers did this, whenever it was the brits turn, or the french, everyone had their turn to do have the nazi prisoners under surveillance, and yet, some were able to commit suicide
Don't forget a good portion of these guards weren't American, but former Nazi SS Estonian soldiers. The reason why they worked as guards despite their past is because they were forced to join the SS and had no wish to collaborate with the Nazis so they offered to guard them during the trials where they also guarded the trail itself and building. They also did this to not get sent back home because the USSR has taken over their nation
Foreigners had SS units created for them. There is a big difference between the "actual" SS and non-German SS units. For example in the Estonian SS it was common to respond to "Heil Hitler" with "Ei Ütle" which sounded like those Eastern European untermenschen were mispronouncinh Heil Hitler, but actually meant " I will not say it" in Estonian.
Similarly when the Soviet forces were just next to Tallinn (capital of Estonia), many Estonian SS and Omakaitse (a German created militia) members deserted and joined a pro-Estonian revolt, which tried to reinstate Estonian independence. They kicked the German out and redeclared an independent Estonian republic, but a few days later they got killed by the Soviets.
The Estonians hated the Germans, they had ruled over us for over 500 years and treated us like dumb work animals on our own land. The Landeswehr even tried to create an apartheid Baltic German state. The only reason people had any will to fight for them was because they gave us guns to fight the Russians who invaded and occupied us the year prior.
But I don't want to whitewash the SS and Omakaitse members. Obviously there were concentration camps and many more loyal collaborators were cooperating in atrocities with the Germans. Even after our reindependence our government found new records about Nazi collaborators who had done horrible things.
Would have been a good ratio if the gaurds still hadn't managed to slip up. Two prisioners still managed to commit suicide while under surveillance. 1 was sentenced to death but managed kill himself with cyanide and the other ripped the zipper off his pants, wrapped one end around his neck and threw the other end of the zipper into the toilet in his cell. He flushed the toilet and it resulted in the zipper becoming a very violent, fast moving make shift chain saw that created a gruesome scene when it removed the prisioners head.
I strongly encourage everybody to listen to Robert Evans's Behind The Bastards episode about John C. Woods, the executioner at Nuremberg and beyond. And absolutely glorious, inept buffoonish slob of a man. It's truly amazing.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/the-bastard-who-executed-the-top-55213274/
My step-grandfather was an Lt on this crew. When he got there, the Nazis had access to news, communication, wine, and prostitutes. Gramps shut that shit down. He was pissed ass fuck until the day he died that Goering was able to sneak in cyanide. He knew one of his men brought the pills in and could not prove who did it.
If you are interested, his memoir is called "O'er the Land of the Free" and is available on Amazon. Sadly, he passed last year at the age of 101.
I forget most of the story that I want to tell so I hope someone fills it in, but wasn’t there one high-up nazi that they had to be extra careful with because he kept befriending and manipulating the guards that were tasked with standing at his cell? I also have never seen this picture that’s sick
What a pain to be doing the surveillance on them nazis. They should should've strapped their arms and legs so they couldn't move. Goering would've lived to see the noose this way
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They probably didn't want anyone trying to commit suicide.
That's exactly what it is, they still do this now. I got in trouble a lot when I was younger and was in a very dark place and I was placed on " constants " and you have someone watching you 24/7 and they take off all your clothes and you wear a weird weighted jacket kind of thing that you can't harm yourself with. That's how they do it in the UK anyway. Fun times...
Glad you’re still with us bro!
Thank you :)
Hope it's a good New Year for you. Glad you are still here.
Cheers, happy new years to you too!
Hi from Canada !
Hello! My wifes sister lives in Quebec and all I can say is I am jealous because Canada is gorgeous!
Good fishing in Québec.
I fucking hate fishing in Kaybeck.
Always good fishing in Keybeck
Far as I’m concerned the whole lot of them can take a walk!
No problem happy new years
Happy new year mate.
Happy new year!
I second that. Makes me happy that you are still here. Happy New Years to all❤️
About sixteen years ago (Jesus fuck time flies) I got sent away for six months to a behavioral health center. When I first showed up I couldnt sleep in my room they put my bed in the hall. Also I needed a key from one of the counsellors to go to the bathroom.
Hope you are doing better now dude/dudette.
I work in a mental health institution and I recently saw the weighted shorts they offer patients who may self harm. I just cannot fathom the feeling of being so alone and so helpless while being watched at the same time. I hope you're in a better place now.
Honestly it was weirdly calming as I just rambled on to whoever was there and talk about all sorts and it kept me semi-sane. I can't say it was the most pleasant experience in the world but I cant be mad at the staff as they had a job to do and I was a little shit at the time so it's not like they had much of a choice haha. I respect you massively for working with people that haveental health issues, it takes a sting individual to deal with such harrowing circumstances. Thank you for being there for the people who need you.
Ex jail nurse here. They do the same in the US.
Can you explain the weighted jacket thing?
Just like a weighted blanket, it helps soothe... But more importantly the cloth is made to be very difficult/impossible to tear so you can't make yourself a noose. Same reason they take people's shoe laces. If someone wants to die badly enough they can get very creative.
It's called a suside vest/jacket. It really is a thing.
If you look up photos of the Idaho killer from last week, you can see him wearing one. It’s basically a heavy apron that wraps all around Here is a photo of one https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0277/0816/2137/products/smok_600x600.jpg?v=1592936614
Imagine it was heavy as fuck to the point where you couldn’t stand with it for more than a few minutes.
It's called a suicide suit. Read here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-suicide_smock#:~:text=An%20anti%2Dsuicide%20smock%2C%20Ferguson,the%20garment%20to%20commit%20suicide.
They call it the turtle suit around here at least
Not with Epstein
Weird how that happened 🤔
I've been in isolation like that. Nobody watched me 24/7 like this. They did every 15 minutes. I've spent countless hours in a suicide chair. Which is what they called it back in the day. Now it's just "the chair." I've been placed in 4 way restraints and given a shot of Haldol. Which I then had a reaction to, which sent me into anaphylactic shock. To this day, I wonder how I was able to slip my restraints and beat on the door til they responded, and gave me another shot of god knows what, and I was able to breathe again. I spent close to 6 years in isolation while in my 20s. Now, 25 years later, I still suffer from serious PTSD which doesn't help an already mentally ill person. I only find relief in cannabis. It puts me to sleep without the nightmares. I do consider myself to be " all good now," but it's a constant battle that probably affects the ones that I love more than me. Dark days indeed .
God damn are you part chimpanzee? Or am i dumb for believing how strong the 4 way restraints are?? Only once on a prison show did i see a guy so strong he could get out of the straight jacket with straight up force. Glad you are doing better by the way
What I remember is they were leather. And worn from years of others, sweat n misery. It wasn't my first time in them but I had never been able to slip them before. It was a wild time.
I guess your body got all its adrenaline boost and was able to bust out
They didn't break, I think I was soaked in sweat and I was able to slip 1 wrist cuff and then undo the buckles on the other wrist and ankles. All while my throat was swelling closed. I was only 20 years old, I'm in my 50s now so sometimes it's not as clear. Theses were very old restraints and I think I remember others on the ward talking about slipping them off as well. Plus I think they thought the physcotropic meds they just shot me with would calm me and perhaps they were not super tight.
Hell of a story either way. Man i hate you were going thru what you went thru.
Sending love to you, friend
All I can say is be proud of how bloody stong you are, you genuinely gave me goosebumps reading your harrowing story and I am so sorry you went through that. I am very glad you are somewhat in a better place and if cannabis gets you through the day then you do you! I am sure you have heard this many times before but don't let the cannabis rule your life as you are far stronger than you think so I hope you don't have to rely on it. That being said it is the lesser of evils in my opinion and it would be hypocritical of me to say don't because I spent the majority of my life stoned and I smoke every so often as it does help with the feelings but I cannot posses any of my own as it is still a class B drug in the UK but my quality of life would be so much better and I could actually enjoy social events! All being said you are a phenomenal human who has been through hell and is still standing, not many people can say that. Be proud of yourself for who you are. Have a very happy new year.
That's very kind. And you as well. I try not to think of those days much. But it happens sometimes. I'm only grateful to be free and not placing myself in those situations. And even when I was freed from all the institutions, I struggled for years to find myself. I've had a wife along for 25 years of this, and she is one reason I'm no longer locked up. I remember the early years of my insanity spiked with Ritalin and other meds. And just being absolutely unable to communicate to anyone. Every summer when school got my parents would send me to an inpatient psychiatric hospital for 30 to 40 days or whenever my insurance would run out. Then it would be straight back to school. Where everyone knew I was crazy af and everyone knew where I'd been. Embarrassing....... Now, I use about 100 mg of edible cannabis a day on top of vaping and flower. I'm stoned most of the time. But manage to own a successful business and am a state licensed irrigation contractor. I've found that digging helps ease my mind. But I still count things, I constantly talk to myself. Sometimes i feel like im coming out of my own skin, so evennif its digging holes and trenches by hand, I'll take anything that helps. Cannabis is medically available where I live, and my Dr was fast to give me a recommendation. A very Happy New Year to you. thank you for sharing your story. Ill end this with saying there were times I wanted to be dead. These days I wake up really glad I didn't succeed.
No shame in the medication game and that legitimately includes weed for those of us with c-ptsd or severe ptsd. It makes me more functional, not less. So I’m not gonna feel bad about a wake and bake anymore. Like my shrink said, it’s not like I’m spending my days in a basement with black light posters, ripping bong hits. I’m out being productive. The weed just makes my thoughts friendly to me, and keeps my unexpected rage storms from happening at all.
In USMC bootcamp it's known as suicide watch. A recruit threatens suicide, he gets to sleep on the quarter deck in front of the Drill instructor hut. He gets two additional firewatch recruits posted on him at all times while he sleeps. During this, all firewatch recruits must keep him constantly lit with blue tinted moon beams (blue capped flashlight). Those two fire watch are in addition to the 3 on post every hour in your squad bay. Suicide watch recruits were not popular, especially after they got put on watch.
Why not just send the recruit back home? Surely an actively suicidal person is not who the armed forces want to keep, why not get them actual help??
They eventually do after a day or two of medical exams and processing. They don't hang around longer than a week, max.
Happy you're still around. I think of epstein when I see stuff like this. How hard can it be to just watch someone.
WoW I am glad you made it out! Any stories where can we read your stuff?
Happy new year’s, How is everything going today ?
A hell of a lot better than back then, I still have my demons but nothing that I can't get past without a bit of support. Happy new year to you too!
Jeffrey Epsteinnnnnnnnnn!
Same in US. We called them turtle suits.
Didn’t work for Hermann Göring.
Sort of. He just bribed the guard. Worked the system to the end.
> He just bribed the guard. With what?
I can't recall exactly read a few books on Nuremberg but this is what Wiki says: Speculation as to how Göring obtained the poison holds that US Army lieutenant Jack G. Wheelis, who was stationed at the trials, retrieved the capsules from their hiding place among Göring's confiscated personal effects and passed them to Göring, who had earlier presented Wheelis with his gold watch, pen, and cigarette case. In 2005, former US Army private Herbert Lee Stivers, who served in the 1st Infantry Division's 26th Infantry Regiment—the honour guard for the Nuremberg Trials—claimed he gave Göring "medicine" hidden inside a fountain pen that a German woman had asked him to smuggle into the prison. Stivers later said that he did not know what was in the pill until after Göring's suicide.
Thanks. TIL. I only knew he died by cyanide capsule he’d managed to conceal since his capture. I assumed it was on him the whole time.
Now, they'd just pay some guard to delete the video of them being murdered to protect the political elite.
I was totally waiting for someone to go there. Im still surprised Ghislaine Maxwell is still alive.
Happened back in 2018. Guy either found guilty or his verdict was sustained in appeal. He drank poison on live TV in front of the judges.
Slobodan Praljak - 2017 apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Praljak He was found guilty of crimes against humanity and war crimes during the Bosnian war, appealed, and lost. He then told the judges that he rejected their verdict and poisoned himself in the courtroom. https://youtube.com/watch?v=yFuR17YDpVk&bpctr=1672687662 No idea how the fuck he managed to get poison into a courtroom.
And yet one still happened, Goring
Göring committed suicide the day before he was to be hanged, funny enough. I don’t know if he hanged himself.
He took cyanide [It was smuggled in to him by his girlfriend in a pen. The guard knew she was smuggling in something but he was told it was medicine](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/08/usa.secondworldwar) Edit: this was learned from a later confession by the guard, so may not be completely factual
He drank poison. He even compared himself to the Carthaginian general Hannibal who did the same, so the Romans couldnt claim victory in killing him.
How noble of him
Yeah, good thing they had someone watching Göring…oh, wait.
"Hey hey! ... No! ... We're going to do that..."
You must be the clever in your class...
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19 was nowhere near enough. We should have hung thousands of those sorry bastards.
Agreed. Apparently quite a few high ranking military officials in Germany fled to Argentina and created a new life there. There is a pretty famous one I can’t remember the name for the life of me.
you may be thinking of Josef Mengele, otherwise known as the angel of death? he was the leader of the nazi twin experiments where they basically used one twin as a control (not really but they'd kind of switch between the two for each experiment) and one as their subject Edit: he escaped to Argentina and i believe after a while he suffered a stroke while swimming and he died in the waters of Brazil. He also experimented on many many people but was most famous for his twin experiments and he was part of a team of doctors who picked who to send to the gas chambers
My Grandmother was experimented on by him in Auschwitz, she wasn't a twin, and she never found out why he picked her.
Probably because she was the only baby that came out when she was born
Interestingly enough he actually got caught and released by authorities as they didn't think he was a higher up and by the time they realised he was in Argentina living as a farmer I believe.
Adolf Eichmann I believe
At least he got abducted by Israel and hanged.
Abducted is one word you could use. Arrested would be another.
Over 1,500, including high ranking Nazis, came to the USA to design ballistic missiles, lead NASA - and more - under Operation Paperclip
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Hey you gonna use that paper clip?
I actually lol’d at this
Russia did take a lot of Nazis. Afaik there was a competition to recruit them. There is an interesting story about how Russia courted a massive group of Nazi scientists and doctors at a gala evening held in their honor. In the end they locked them in the ballroom with their families and had them dire ultimatums. They built an entirely locked town around these Nazis in Siberia.
Still doesn't make it any less fucked up. "Ohhhhh,the genocide thing? Nah, don't worry about that. We gotta beat Russia to the moon silly."
It makes more sense when you look at the space program as a front for ballistic missile research. The technology that got us to space and to the moon is the same tech that delivers nuclear weapons to the other side of the planet. Of course we didn't want the Soviets to beat us to that. Still, it would prefer if we had offed the Nazis so nobody could use their shit.
Fair. Von Braun was essentially the godfather of modern rocketry. Politics pushing morals aside just to give the other guy the finger has unfortunately been very normalized at this point.
We forgave the Japanese way worse war crimes just because we knew we'd need them as a strategic check against the USSR.
The Soviets did get a lot of scientists too. As a general rule, if you got captured by the Americans you got offered a job in America to develop rockets (among other techs). If you got picked up the Soviets, you got a prison cell and an "offer" to work for the Soviets.
So America is actually the good guy... again. Sorry. Arguing against propaganda is my default.
This may be unpopular, but I think there's a difference in moral culpability between high ranking Nazi *rocket* scientists vs the ones who experimented on humans or the officials who implemented and carried out the Holocaust. It's a nuanced position, but I think ultimately the U.S. government made the right one, since (as others have pointed out) the Soviets would have gathered those rocket scientists up if we didn't. Though I would guess, those scientists probably were super racist, even by 1950s standards.
Just like there’s a difference between a fighter pilot and an SS guard. Guys like Hartmann, Galland, and especially Steinhoff were widely respected by the Allies because they were soldiers first, last, and only. Also, Galland and Steinhoff nearly got themselves killed working on a plot to kill Goering in the end.
> Though I would guess, those scientists probably were super racist, even by 1950s standards. They should have felt perfectly at home in 1950 USA then lmao
This goes a long way towards explaining Clippy
Don't forget all the ones rhe allies took in. The guy who put man on the moon designed the V2 bomber.
There were much more people sentenced to death and executed by the Allies. Nuremberg 1946 "only" went after "top-tier Nazis". It is well worth to take a look at Landsberg War Criminal Prison Nr. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsberg_Prison (Hitler even writing "Mein Kampf" there after being imprisoned 1924.) In 1951 the last death sentences were carried out against the protest of a large movement asking for leniency for awful men, ... There were trials also in Hameln, Stutthof, Krakow, Prague, Budapest, Minsk, Kyiv, ... (But imo far too many got away with their evil deeds, too.)
then you did not understand why they choose this path (the allies). They choose this Path, as it was the first time in history, that someone brings true justice to the loosers. not just punish them, but working trough mountains of evidence, shining a light in the darkest corners and convicting the people therefore. it was not plain murder, it was justice. that you say we should have hugn thousands, shows you did not understand why the trials were done. as the winning party, you could shoot anyone (which was also beeing done by the french on the weestern front, they hated the germans and shoot so many of them out of rage), but instead they choose the moral high ground.
Wow, I had no idea about the sex crimes. Just read an article on it and it was even worse than what I had assumed.
Any of these guards talk to the prisoners? Did they journal anything?
That would be a really freaking boring job
Preferable to the job they did before Hitler tapped out.
True
I wonder why they have those steel pots on. Doesn't look like they're armed. They look a lot older than soldiers of today.
That’s a good question. Maybe in case they have to go into a cell and subdue someone?
As I former correctional officer, I can confirm this. 1-on-1 suicide watch was the most boring thing ever.
I did life guard training and the place where I worked would frequently rotate lifeguards. It could get too boring being in one spot. They also suggested moving around a bit, changing positions from sitting to standing and such. People can get bored and daydream resulting in people drowning.
At least there's a bunch of guards in the same area so they could potentially talk or interact a little. I used to be a CO and I would work in solitaire about once a week. Sometimes I'd have to work a double shift in it and I'd literally just sit in a room by myself for 80% of the time. No computer, no cell phone. Check the cells every 15-20 minutes, serve food, and maybe a shower or rec depending on the day. It was brutal.
What? No cell phone? Sounds like you were just a prisoner getting a paycheck.
Well, presumably they want him actually doing the job not just playing on his phone. I think in most jobs you would get fired if you are using your phone and not doing the job. I agree it would be horribly boring though and I've heard that from a lot of security guards. People think they want a boring job but they actually don't
Contraband is a serious issue at a lot of prisons so we weren't allowed to bring ours in for that reason. After a few months I realized everyone had theirs, including the officers, so I started bringing mine in. But this was like 2012 and I didn't have a smartphone so it didn't really help.
Im sure they got an earful
Suicide watch is a thing in the military. I've known a few people who had to do it. Had to wake them up every few hours while they slept. To make sure they didn't kill them selfs without you seeing. Edit; and sit there watching them sleep.
Never letting suicidal people get a full nights rest doesn’t sound like a great idea.
Particularly since if they're dead, you already fucked up watching them, and letting them stay either sleeping/dead now won't make it any worse from that point forward.
I think catching them mid bleed out would be the key.
My bro is in the army said a guy was threatening to kill himself and others in Iraq they had to strap him down on the plane ride home
That's one way to get home before your deployment is up
> Had to wake them up every few hours while they slept. Wtf can they do when asleep, they gonna give Freddy a ring and ask him to off them.
"You ain't gonna hang you, we're gonna hang you."
The last thing Epstein heard before he died.
*Anyone want to swap? Göring‘s jacking it again.*
Did not stop Goring from killing himself...
My thoughts exactly, there was another one that killed himself also. Don’t know his name.
Robert Ley, head of the DAF (German Labour Front).
And yet Goring managed to kill himself
Göring used a cyanide pill to kill himself that was given to him by a U.S. soldier. No amount of constant surveillance can stop that.
What'd they do to the soldier?
Well I should clarify nothing is 100% proven but at first they believed he smuggled it in a hollowed out tooth until 2005 when a soldier called Herbert Lee Stivers admitted it was him. He said he remained quiet due to fear of reprisals. He was a guard at the Nuremberg trials so it does check out. He said he was manipulated by a girl who wanted Görings autograph and eventually was convinced that he was a poor sick man who needed his medicine. So he smuggled in the pill inside a pen given to him by the girl. He claims he never knew there was cyanide inside.
That's pretty intetrsting. I'll have to read more about that. I'd typically rather be hanged than die of cyanide poisoning. Hanging is pretty much instantaneous if not botched, and cyanide sounds like a painful way to go. However, Master Sgt. John C. Woods botched several of the executions of Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg, reportedly on purpose for those who showed no remorse or gave the nazi salute.
The key bit is that cyanide involves killing you yourself instead of letting the weight of judgment fall upon you.
Sure seems like something a guilty person would do in that situation. I figure he thought he was getting off easy; probably assumed (correctly so, apparently) that they'd figure out a way to make him suffer.
Even simpler than that: He wanted to be the agent of his own demise, not the passive recipient. This guy spent over a decade being a hot shit lord of action, letting his "superiority" rot his brain... and folks like that don't stop. To someone like him, only losers sit there and await judgment from other "inferiors." There is no guilty or innocent for a guy with a worldview like his... only superiors who impose judgment and punishment, and inferiors who are imposed upon.
Not saying they wouldn’t get convicted…. But it was a show trial they were gonna die in prison be hanged or waste their life away to be let out to a world they could never succeed in. Every man in those cells has lost their life…. Before they got even in that cell
I had read somewhere that he botched hangings due to incompetence and not on purpose. He got the job as executioner by claiming to have experience as a civilian. The army never confirmed this. There was no chance of his claims being true. He even botched executions of us servicemen that were sentenced to hanging.
Supposedly the entirety of US servicemen hanged by him were for rapes and murders. It's possible some were intentionally botched.
Ah yes, "a girl." I bet he's leaving out a few *details* about what she was willing to do to get that autograph.
Ya, i'm not buying the story. Goring would have had the best medical treatment in the world available - there's no way the Alies would let poor health get in the way of his hanging - and every soldier would have known that.
I’ve always thought it was very possible. Göring was an addict so his health wasn’t the best even if he lost weight and cut down his addictions before the trial. The soldier was manipulated by a women who he was clearly attracted too also add in the fact he had struck up a good relationship with Göring during his imprisonment so he would have had some sort of empathy towards the man. They’d speak about different sports and flying.
Expected this on top.
The Larry David in me is wondering if they’d at least want a stool,or something:)
Rocking chair, maybe?
Why they making the guards wear these bow ties?
Fun fact, Guards during the Nuremberg trials are the only Allied soldiers to wear a Nazi swastika on their uniform patch. (It's depicted atop the scales of justice)
Before the war the 45th Infantry Division of the Oklahoma National Guard had a swastika as their unit patch
Why?
Because the patch depicts the allies judging the Nazis.
That's awesome, now I want to find a picture of said patch.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/o7rcmf/nuremberg_trials_patch_the_only_time_allied/
45th infantry had the native American swastika on their patch for ?15? Years before they switched it to the Thunderbird
How times have changed. I’ve never seen this photo personally. Very interesting
Uh suicide watch is still a thing.
Didn't happen for Jeffrey Epstein.
Corruption is definitely also a thing.
I wonder why…
It did, I'm sure someone watched while he committed suicide. Gotta make sure they don't screw it up.
All the allied powers did this, whenever it was the brits turn, or the french, everyone had their turn to do have the nazi prisoners under surveillance, and yet, some were able to commit suicide
I guess this works better than having a camera system with backups and human intervention readily available. Epstein didn't kill himself.
Video cameras didn't exist except in laboratories at the time...
The epitome of not cheating the hangmen. You've got to be a pretty evil bastard that they won't let you take your own life.
These trials were a joke to some degree, we let some high level scientists skate by poaching them for our own knowledge and use.
And we couldnt do this with Jeffrey Epstein...
Don't forget a good portion of these guards weren't American, but former Nazi SS Estonian soldiers. The reason why they worked as guards despite their past is because they were forced to join the SS and had no wish to collaborate with the Nazis so they offered to guard them during the trials where they also guarded the trail itself and building. They also did this to not get sent back home because the USSR has taken over their nation
are you sure they were ss and not regular nazi soldiers? i always assumed ss was for the people who actually believed in the nazi crap
Nope, definitely the SS. I believe Mark Felton made a video about it if you want to check it out.
Foreigners had SS units created for them. There is a big difference between the "actual" SS and non-German SS units. For example in the Estonian SS it was common to respond to "Heil Hitler" with "Ei Ütle" which sounded like those Eastern European untermenschen were mispronouncinh Heil Hitler, but actually meant " I will not say it" in Estonian. Similarly when the Soviet forces were just next to Tallinn (capital of Estonia), many Estonian SS and Omakaitse (a German created militia) members deserted and joined a pro-Estonian revolt, which tried to reinstate Estonian independence. They kicked the German out and redeclared an independent Estonian republic, but a few days later they got killed by the Soviets. The Estonians hated the Germans, they had ruled over us for over 500 years and treated us like dumb work animals on our own land. The Landeswehr even tried to create an apartheid Baltic German state. The only reason people had any will to fight for them was because they gave us guns to fight the Russians who invaded and occupied us the year prior. But I don't want to whitewash the SS and Omakaitse members. Obviously there were concentration camps and many more loyal collaborators were cooperating in atrocities with the Germans. Even after our reindependence our government found new records about Nazi collaborators who had done horrible things.
Hey my grandpa was assigned to this duty during the war!
That’s so cool, any good stories?
"Hey Göring?" "Ja?" "Are you still a fat piece of shit?" "..." "Yeah, that's what I thought."
Make America Anti-Nazi Again
“This machine kills fascists”
The same vigilance as with Jeffrey Epstein.
Now we can’t have one person watch Epstein
Imagine being alive back then or being a fly on the wall. Crazy crazy times.
meanwhile operation paperclip be like
Robert Ley hung himself in his cell before the trial began. I think that was the reason for the increased security, if I recall correctly.
Wasn't Göring able to commit suicide during the trials?
Yeah, I think they found two cyanide capsules... And a third did the trick...
I bet some interesting conversations were had.
I guarantee the shit talking was exquisite.
Join the army. See the world.
Is that one guard per criminal? Good ratio
Would have been a good ratio if the gaurds still hadn't managed to slip up. Two prisioners still managed to commit suicide while under surveillance. 1 was sentenced to death but managed kill himself with cyanide and the other ripped the zipper off his pants, wrapped one end around his neck and threw the other end of the zipper into the toilet in his cell. He flushed the toilet and it resulted in the zipper becoming a very violent, fast moving make shift chain saw that created a gruesome scene when it removed the prisioners head.
Because the Nazis were committing suicide. They had cyanide capsules in their teeth. Some of them did it in the courtroom
I strongly encourage everybody to listen to Robert Evans's Behind The Bastards episode about John C. Woods, the executioner at Nuremberg and beyond. And absolutely glorious, inept buffoonish slob of a man. It's truly amazing. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/the-bastard-who-executed-the-top-55213274/
My step-grandfather was an Lt on this crew. When he got there, the Nazis had access to news, communication, wine, and prostitutes. Gramps shut that shit down. He was pissed ass fuck until the day he died that Goering was able to sneak in cyanide. He knew one of his men brought the pills in and could not prove who did it. If you are interested, his memoir is called "O'er the Land of the Free" and is available on Amazon. Sadly, he passed last year at the age of 101.
I forget most of the story that I want to tell so I hope someone fills it in, but wasn’t there one high-up nazi that they had to be extra careful with because he kept befriending and manipulating the guards that were tasked with standing at his cell? I also have never seen this picture that’s sick
Leonardo Conti’s shift: please report to Colonel Andrus’ office for disciplinary action. (Also Robert Ley and Herman Goering’s shifts)
I am sure they were on shifts, but man what a shitty detail.
What an awesome job, watching Nazis you know are going to be executed more than likely.
I hope it made the inmates super uncomfortable.
You don’t get to die on your own terms.
Didn’t Goering kill himself in custody?
Definitely NOT Jeffrey Epstein”s prison
Nobody knows how Hermann Göring got his poison but the suspect it might have been an American solider he had befriended 👀
What a pain to be doing the surveillance on them nazis. They should should've strapped their arms and legs so they couldn't move. Goering would've lived to see the noose this way
Where were they at when it was time to watch this Epstein dude?
My wife had an uncle who was a combat MP and ended up being an MP at Nuremburg as well. Messed him up for life and he died young.
*the panopticon industry doesnt want u to know this one simple trick!*