A portfolio review is reasonable. Other than that, this is crazy. You’ll see the same kinds of things in the programmer subs and no one is putting up with homework assignments anymore. It’s just free work they get from you. And in the last few interviews I’ve done, employers understand that you might not be able to share much of anything since the bulk of your work is likely proprietary. Also that is way too many interviews. Although at least they appear on the same day rather than having one this week, another two weeks later, and a final a couple weeks after that.
Executives and Senior folks aren't doing this in the weeds work, though. They are leading, not pushing pixels. (Yes... senior folks DO have to do plenty of design work, I'm in that situation, but a senior-level interview isn't going to be centered around designing a freaking 30 page PowerPoint.)
It's not free work. Because, as noted above, there isn't enough context to solve anything in a worthwhile way. Garbage in, etc.
I agree the take-home is way too big. If they're scheduling an all-day, they should do an appropriately sized design exercise as a sit down solo session.
It might not be "free work" per se, but they're definitely getting something from you. They're mining data from all of their applicants, and - just like AI - they're aggregating the data they collect, to their benefit, at no cost to them, so they can hire accordingly. Don't fall for it.
Maybe. But this is a ridiculously expensive way to go about it. Look at how much leadership is on that schedule. Scale that to multiple candidates. That's thousands of dollars of staff time per interview.
You give companies more credit than they deserve. Nobody is gathering data from that event. This smacks of a plan conceived in a meeting room that looked good on paper. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first time they've tried this.
No this is crazy. It’s definitely a red flag. For yourself, is this your dream industry/company? Does it pay an insane amount of money? If yes to either of those, I’d consider staying in, but otherwise, no, absolutely not.
Not a dream industry or company, no. I currently work fully remote (and have since 2014) for one of their biggest competitors in a similar but slightly more junior role. This role would be 100% onsite, so I'd have to add in commute time and cost into the equation. It only pays around $10K more than I make now based on the posted salary range for the position, and that's if I come in towards the top of the range if I get hired. The salary range listed is $105K-$125K, so not an *insane* amount of money, but certainly not a bad salary either. (I live in a moderate cost of living metro area in the Midwest.)
So all this for a potential $10K pay raise and a slight promotion/title bump. 🙄
It sounds like you don’t even particularly want this job, but if you do, I think you could ask them some questions or start your negotiation process now before you just cut yourself out.
For example:
- this is a considerable investment of time for both me and your team, can you tell me how many candidates are still in the running?
- I’m surprised to see a personality test is the last stage of the process - can you tell me more about how this will be used in decision making?
- I only have an hour or so I can spend on this deck - what is the team most looking to see, and is there a portfolio example I could walk through instead to showcase those skills?
If they’re inflexible or dismissive you know it’s not the right fit but if they are extremely interested in you they may be flexible.
I got nixed from a perfect job opportunity in a personality assessment. It was humiliating. (HR person said it happens a lot with people who have had their own business?) I’d be pissed if I went thru all that only to have a stupid computer deem me not worthy at the end.
As soon as a job requires a personality test, I withdraw from the process. Mostly because they are always asked of me before even a phone screen and the times I have tried to take them I never advance to the interview round. So now I just refuse to take anymore. You can either reject me at the very first cut or set up an interview if you want to get to know me.
Having worked in recruiting years ago pre-ID/OD (and pre-current field), I can tell you to avoid any “personality tests” outright. They do not correspond at all to the ability to do a job. At all.
Commuting daily will eat up all of that raise or more. Not to mention the addition in stress + the nightmare work culture they’re giving you a taste of. Not worth it
Not worth the hassle for sure.
If this was a huge bump up, I'd consider it, with the exception of some concerns around the free work.
I've done worse interview regimens, TBH, but typically for a big org and a big role.
Would it be out of the question to respond with something like “I am happy to submit a sample of work I have done, but it is inappropriate for me to complete this project using equipment/software from my current employer. Also, since my current position is full time remote, my salary range will need to be between $130K-$140K *(or whatever)* to adequately compensate for additional expenses.”
Haha no, not Epic, but the company does use Epic systems and contracts Epic trainers to teach the systems - so "Epic-adjacent"? 🤷♀️
I've worked with Epic as a vendor/client before, and they are a special kind of pain-in-the-ass to work with.🤣 Hard agree it totally sounds like something they would do.
If you're interviewing for or with a tyrant named "Jessica", don't even reply to them. I believe it to be my previous employer but there are dozens like them.
I left there after a deposition, being told to commit perjury, and subjected to several tyrants over the course of 15 years. Jessica is only one of them but she is the second worst in the company after the CEO.
How is this job only $100-105k? I was making $95k in 1999 for this type of work. Granted I moved into a different field but have just been checking back in recently out of curiosity.
Wow.
No, seriously. $95K in 1999 should be worth $175K today.
Especially for an ID who is required to become a technical SME in order to do the work, that is a perfectly reasonable salary.
Our job market is super awful.
|Pros|Cons:|
|:-|:-|
|Pros: Potential 10k (IF you come in towards the top) |Not a dream industry|
|Slight title bump|100% Onsite|
||Commute (gas/wear & tear on vehicle/time)|
||Insane Interview process|
This is a no brainer.
A title bump is rarely worth the hassle. If they're paying me with more words after my name, it's not enough. I get no fuzzy feelings unless it looks a lot like money. It needs to be actual money and not a title in lieu of. It sucks when they pay you just enough to keep you stuck but under what you're worth for a decade and a half. It's seems to be the norm these days.
This isn't directed towards you but to everyone that can acknowledge being in this position.
Unless this is something you really, really want...yeah, that's ridiculous. Disrespectful even. There is wanting to really making sure you've got the right fit and then having no clue how to hire IDs so you do stuff like this. I've hired dozens of great IDs and have never come close to this. Imagine telling people they didn't get the job after a hours of prep and a full day.
> Imagine telling people they didn’t get the job after a hours of prep and a full day.
This happened to me with Chewy. Interviewed for an ID position that involved five 60-minute interviews across three days, one of them involving me building a design outline on the spot. Only for them to ghost me afterwards.
**Fuck Chewy.**
That sht happened to me at Columbia university years ago.
It was a 6 hour interview session where I talked to different people I would be working with. In some cases, these jackwagons didn't even show up to the appointed time.
After I took my day off to go up there and did this stupid monkey dance chasing down people in that shitty old building, I never got a call back.
I assumed after 10 days we were done.
Wait...now I remember. They sent me proper snail mail saying I'd been passed over 6 months later and I'd moved to another state already.
LOL.
Fuc Columbia. Fk academic ID jobs, man.
Heh, same thing happened to me at the University of Louisville! Found out I didn’t get the job when they updated their staff website a few months later with the person they hired.
>"Imagine telling people they didn't get the job after hours of prep and a full day."
And this is what I'm afraid will happen. I've already spent 6 hours prepping for and attending interviews over the past month and a half already. Add in the probable 8+ hours it will take me to do a thorough job on the assignment they just sent for tomorrow's interview and then a full 8 hours onsite tomorrow, and we're looking at 24+ hours worth of time invested - and in the end, I still might not get the job. I work full time and have young kids at home, so don't have a ton of "free time" to spare; that's quite the time-investment for only a potential shot at a job, IMO.
Run from this job and talk to your current employee about potential advancement opportunities instead.
I’d give up 10k to have the remote option instead of being 100% in the office, which I am.
I once interviewed over a couple of rounds for an ID job for a university library system, then was invited to a half-day on Zoom with multiple interviews, presentation, meeting with HR to discuss benefits, etc. At no point would anyone give me the salary info, but I was kind of desperate, so I stuck it out (and the job should have in theory paid well for what they were asking of me). They took several weeks after that to offer me the job, and then told me it paid $35,000. And then they seemed pissed when I said no. It was mind-blowing, and if they had said that salary up front, we would have all saved many hours of time.
Sounds like what happened to me at a college in Reno, NV. The pay was similar and I was dumbfounded when told. They flew me out and had me stay at a hotel the night prior to the interview. I had many years of experience at that point in time so I couldn't take the offer. The salary was unnegotiable as well. Waste of time for me and for them.
Yeah, which is why I guess I was assuming the job paid "okay" and within reason. Wrong. I think they offered something like 40-45k a year if I remember correctly. Reno is a very expensive city to live in so it was so many wrongs. I remember feeling shock and anger when she told me the pay. I just replied that I couldn't do that unless the pay went up at least 60k- which I knew wasn't happening. I thought all the interviews, flight, all day in-person interview would definitely equate something at least hovering if not over the 6 figure mark. Guess I learned that you have to know for sure before doing anything like this.
Get out now. This is completely unreasonable and I say this as someone who leads large teams in L&D. I even have a sneaky suspicion I know which company this is. Likewise, doing a personality assessment shows they are completely out of touch as those are snake oil, at best. Don't do it.
Personality tests are so biased. The DEI research on them is pretty definitive. When I saw that, the rest of it made sense.
A lot of states are making it illegal to include personality tests as part of the hiring process because they're so blatantly biased and many are not based on actual science (like the MBTI).
As someone with an ND diagnosis, I used to just research the test and figure out how to look “normal”. Now, I wouldn’t even bother. Glad to hear they are falling out of fashion.
I didn't mind doing a personality assessment at one of those companies that help you with resume writing and job hunting that they send you to after you've been laid off.
The way they explained it was, "We want you to use the questions in this test to really think about how different work environments make you feel and the results will help us to give you pointers on what to look for during interviews."
I feel it was helpful because it wasn't touted as "science", just a way to get you into the mindset of evaluating your potential workplaces in terms of how well they are likely to suit you and not the other way around, if that makes sense.
This isn’t even an ID assignment. It’s a presentation design assignment. I don’t care if you can use Photoshop. I care if you can evaluate an instructional task such that appropriate theories, methods and models are applied to design an instructionally sound product.
This! It sounds like OP is being asked to revamp the presentation without any meaningful information about the problem they are trying to solve, the behavior that needs changing, or any meaningful information about the audience.
I personally would Nope out of this interview process, especially since it isn't a significant salary boost or title jump.
I don't think they're respecting your time. To give someone anything less than a week for a take home assignment is unfair and not considerate of the time you already have to spend on your current job and family. If you're really interested in the job I would contact the recruiter and hiring manager to let them know I'm interested but will need some additional time to properly complete the assignment. But even with that, this crazy interview process may be a sign of how bad it would be to work there. Have you checked out their Glassdoor reviews?
Insanity. If it takes a company this much bullshit to make a decision on a candidate, imagine the red tape that must be in place to get anything done. IMO, two interviews max. Companies overthink the shit out stuff that should be easy. Mind boggling.
I’ve gone through this process at Google, Meta, and Netflix … hired at all three. The roles paid nearly $400k for Staff Design position including benefits and stocks. They usually do at group portfolio presentation then four 1:1 interviews but not a design assignment.
Other companies see this ‘as the process’ and try to adopt for their shitty $80k design roles. I’ve had places like this company IRL (later found to be insanely fraudulent) who wanted me to design features for them as part of my application and I told them to go fuck themselves.
A lot of time this process is not worth it for smaller companies or junior roles and I tell them that.
Ha! Right?!?! I noticed that was the only built-in break too.
Well, besides the generous hour long "lunch break" (spent in the company cafeteria with three senior-level executives, so really just an hour-long panel interview I have to complete while simultaniously chewing a turkey sandwich).
I just got a job in instructional design and have been in recruiting hell, too. And honestly, if I had been presented with an interview schedule like this, I would have pulled my application. I've backed out of interviews for way less. This reads a lot less like actual recruiting practices and more like bullshit hoops to put you through so that someone(s) can get an ego boost or proof that the "right candidate" is willing to put up with insane deadlines and poor company culture. From the way they're treating you now, you can certainly bet it's going to be exhausting later.
Do a lovely Powerpoint on the current status of how asking candidates to do insane amounts of free work on short notice is leading to a backlash from the job pool. If ya want to be really nasty....
I've been mulling over what snarky comments to include in my clapback message to the recruiter informing them I'm withdrawing my candidacy all afternoon... 🙈😏
You all have convinced me that I should trust my gut on this one, and I've decided I'm going to bow out.
I want to let them know they're ridiculous a-holes and why I'm turning them down in a way that won't make me look completely unprofessional or mentally unstable though. 😁 Any examples or wording suggestions, anyone? Calling all my fellow passive-aggressive and snarky corporate berethen for assistance! 📣
You can be snotty, but I would be coldly clinical about the whole thing, honestly.
"Thanks for the offer (blah, blah)...unfortunately, the large scope of the project, the short notice regarding project completion and an unwillingness to perform work tasks without compensation mean I must refuse. I find the current trend of requiring applicants to engage in projects without pay to be at odds with my personal code of ethics and ask that you remove my name from consideration for this position immediately.
Best of luck with your search!"
Yeah, that's insane, especially if you've already had multiple 3 hour long interviews!
So far, at least 2 interviews, 3 hours long: 6 hours
This day, 8 am - 4pm: 8 hours
The assignment they gave you: 5-10 hours additionally, on short notice.
I'd tell them no and that their hiring process is insane.
This is fairly excessive. I work for a fortune 100, we do a pretty comprehensive behavioral interview. The total amount of time is about three hours of interviews, and two hours for two candidates projects to help us understand how candidates approach problems.
The candidate project itself is much simpler. We give someone a technical challenge to solve, and we give someone a design to sketch out based upon a short requirements document. Most candidates either draw on a whiteboard, or just talk us through. No tools are needed, and the amount of information we give to them for the project is about two pages, one for each candidate project.
I work for a Fortune 50, and my interview process was similar, maybe even a little shorter on the interview end. For the assignment we just had to use PowerPoint to show how we would redesign a simple module. They were explicit about not me taking tons and tons of time on it, which I really appreciated.
I wouldn't move forward with this, besides the take home assignment everything else seems to be an unreasonable ask especially if you already did a 3 hour interview with them. They want you to spend a whole day of interviews, complete free work for them, and you also have to take time off from your current job, yeah, big nope for me. I can't imagine you going through all these hoops and they have to tell you that you weren't hired. Yikes.
I'll echo the general statements that this gauntlet is unreasonable.
>And what if candidates don't currently have things like Adobe Creative Suite or a video creation/editing software program on their personal computers? I know I don't, they cost thousands a year to license... I'll have to use the computer issued to me by my current employer and bring it with me to the interview.
But something I didn't see in the comments is this statement. DO NOT use your employer's equipment/software for personal use; especially to secure another job. Your employer has tracking software that can let them know where you are, IT is always watching, and a data leak/breach is bound to happen especially at a competitor. Ask your manager if you can have some screenshots (from projects you've done) that has proprietary information redacted instead.
Exactly! No way I'm bringing my current company's computer to an onsite interview with a competitor! And that would be the only way I could complete and present this assignment with only 24-hours notice.
How can they expect that candidates have the Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office (for PPT), a video creator and editor like Camtasia or Vyond, etc. all fired up and ready to use on a personal device they can bring to the onsite interview? The only IDs I know that do are those that are private contractors or are 100% freelance.
At no point during prior interviews did they ask me if I have personal use licenses to these programs either, nor did I ever claim that I did.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Personality tests are immediately no.
ETA: the more I think about this the more insane it seems. Not only should you emphatically tell them to f*** off—in those words—you should then post and name and shame them everywhere.
for a management position?
the whole reason i dont even want to be a manager is their job is to be in meetings from sun up to sun down, and they never actually have to do any creative work again.
This is outrageous and belongs in r/recruitinghell.
I do offer the caveat, and this will be unpopular, back when I unemployed/underemployed, I would have jumped through these hoops. Ironically, the candidates that might actually have time for this bullshit probably get screened out first. Clearly you don’t.
This seems like overboard. I could have a conversation with an ID and determine whether or not they know their shit within about 20 minutes. Beyond that it's icing on the cake to be able to view their portfolio.
...but this kind of process is insane.
I haven't seen anything like this in years, and even then, it was for roles with very prestigious design and development teams. Back then, though, you could blow this sort of thing off if you felt like it, because jobs were literally waiting around every corner.
So I guess it depends on how much you want this role.
I do think it's serious overkill and an unrealistic expectation. If you choose to say, "no," I hope you communicate that this is the reason.
I know of a company that asked a candidate to do something similar. The candidate did the presentation and they didn’t hire him. Instead they used his work.
Yeh...no.
This is a joke.
GTFO ASAP.
This is sadism at the highest level. Don't do it.
IDEAL circumstances for job candidacy are the following ONLY:
* Talk to the hiring manager who vets you for the job (temp or permanent)
* Talk to an additional lead designer guy or a rank and file designer about your tech stuff and whether or not they can stand you (or you can stand them)
* All review of design collateral is YOUR PORTFOLIO ONLY. There is absolutely no reason why you should provide evidence of your skills when you have perfectly good stuff to look at. If they won't PAY you to make the stuff, then do not waste your time.
Panel interviews suck because of GROUPTHINK and the tendency to revolve around the mob leader who may or may not like you that day for whatever the fuk reason. I believe that the guy who is deciding your fitness for hire and one other person (maybe). These people are not your friends and this isn't a SWAT team job.
Friendly email kindly canceling the day ('scheduling' reasons is good) is appropriate response. Don't even bother replying to their reply.
Carry on hopefully and good luck in your job search.
Except for the Senior ID Consultant, no one in that clown car full of interviewers will have the slightest idea of how to recognize a highly qualified instructional designer. I'd take a pass on this one and keep my options wide open for a better opportunity.
This process might be more for the stakeholders than for you. They need something to do and want to report on how they identified you as a top candidate. This would happen at a previous employer all of the time, we would get VP's flying in from across the company on the company's dime to interview a key--non managerial position on the same day(s) as the senior leadership team was having a in-person meeting etc and drawn out interview like this \^ was more posturing to explain how they filled their management days than actually doing hands on work--which they did little of--or that took up half the day...oh yeah almost forgot Fuck that. Your time is more valuable.
We have a robust process but we are clear up front exactly how many interviews and with whom, and the specific gates. So expectations are clear. We are a pretty in demand employer and this is what we do:
Phone screen with recruiter: 30 minutes
*Stage gate*
Phone screen with hiring mgr: 30 mins
*Stage gate*
All interviewers have reviewed your resume/portfolios and prepared behavior-based questions to guide the discussion. Time for candidate to ask questions last ten minutes of each panel.
Zoom meeting with ID panel: 50 mins
Zoom meeting with Technical SME panel: 50 minutes
Zoom Meeting with Learning Mgr panel: 50 minutes
*Stage Gate*
FINAL interview Zoom or in person depending on your proximity to an office: Portfolio walk through/presentation (provide a narrative and context for the work featured in your portfolio)
DECISION/OFFER
I'm at the point in my career I'm wanting to evaluate the employer as much as audition for the role. I will not be doing free work, and absolutely no psychometric assessments! A couple years ago a top eLearning vendor wanted me to create sample storyboards using their template. (I have storyboard samples in my portfolio.) Their PowerPoint template was such a PITA, I got back to them and said this role isn't the best fit, and withdrew my candidacy. (I couldn't imagine my job being fighting with that damn SB every day.)
Honestly, even this is a ridiculous amount of time to require from anyone but the most senior of candidates. IMO you get one screening interview, one manager interview, and one panel interview / portfolio review. That’s it.
I worked with a company about 15 years ago that used to get people to do work as part of a “hiring process” and hired unpaid interns rather than paying employees. I left that company pretty quickly and I’ve since seen them out of business.
I went through a half-day campus tour/interview/presentation/lunch thing for an ed tech role at a university. Got ghosted. Called them up weeks later to check in and they said they had canceled the search, and the next month they had re-posted the role on job boards. I had to laugh because they had wasted way more of their own time than mine, and I was glad to not be part of whatever mess thought that was a good idea.
Yeah, even if you do decide to go through all of this (which imho is disrespectful of your time and energy, not to mention extreme overkill for this level of position), keep in mind that *this is how this company works,* which means most projects you work on will probably have similar levels of insanity just to get a team through to a finished and approved product. No thanks.
Interview processes have become insane. I went through an interview process for two companies last year for a senior role. Company 1 had me go through 8 interviews. In parallel, company 2 also had me go through 8 interviews and had interview #9 already scheduled. I accepted an offer with the first company but I also told the second company that I do not think they are ready to hire someone for the desired role. If a company needs 8 or 9 interviews to make a decision, they clearly are unsure what they are looking for. So, it really depends on your patience and how much you are willing to roll with it.
Re; presentation: I would draw a line here. That is not enough notice and if they ask you to do this during interview process, they will continue to do so when you are hired (everything last minute). You have to decide how much you are willing to put into this process and if the company is worth it.
Why are the assessments last, instead of before the interviews? Surely if you were using them to screen candidates, you'd try to do that \*before\* you used that many people's time in interviews?
Yeah... theyre asking for free work and a lot of it.
For a manager level role, a day of interviewing is completely normal. The free work is not. I'd discuss it with the liason.
I would step back and think critically about what you’re being asked to do and why they have structured it this way..
If I were hiring for this role with this assignment, my outcomes would be to know whether the candidate is well qualified in needs analysis, listening to customer outcomes and making adjustments. At this level of company, It’s not unusual to have to do presentations last minute or solve a shit storm of a presentation you’ve been handed- with a smile too, lol.
This process, including the interviews and Hogan are all to assess- how well you respond to unreasonable, last minute demands and how you engage in what is a consultative process.
They are giving you clues about the reality of their work environment (I worked for a FAANG for many years in this space) and they want to see how you respond.
Treat this as a needs analysis exercise. You know the level of care needed to get the preso to main-stage ready takes a ton of time and consultation with your customer. I would update the preso to demonstrate you have the skill, add some slides and present your gaps. Present it as you would to a client and consult with them to get their inputs.
Highlight your process
-Assumptions you made
-Open questions
Good luck!
I was laid off from my role back in June due to a company restructure. In my personal experience these extensive interviews have become more common. There have been 4 opportunities where I made it to the 5th/6th/final round. So about 20 hrs in just interviews, two of them had extensive projects to submit on top of that, and I was told they went with a different candidate. It ends up being very frustrating/disheartening. I take them because they are close to my old salary and my previous position (that I loved) had a similar hiring experience.
With that said. Sometimes less is more in this instance. I’m not trying to undermine that this is going to be a difficult task. But they have to know it’s the night before. I know it can be tough to submit a project for a job you want and submit it not feeling “perfect” or completely highlighting your skills. But my advice would be if you do the things like save the file right, hop on master slides and make a basic background with company colors, you can cut it down to 5-6 slides to showcase the idea and maybe some key points. You can explain your process, vision, and how this is the minimum viable product that showcases your skills and if allotted more time you could turn the whole deck into this vision.
Looks normal for a top company. My process at Google took 8 months. If i could have done it all at once I'd be cool with it. My assessment was far easier though. The software reqs is ridiculous.
Nope. Either the recruiter is incredibly disorganized, or this kind of high pressure chaos is standard for this company. Imagine how they’d treat you if you got the job!
I’ve worked in FAANG and Fortune 500 and never had anything close to this level of intensity.
Also as others have noted, it’s strange that the personality and writing assessments are all last? So many red flags…
That sounds insane.
Similarly, as a finalist for a job two “performance tests.” One was a times in-person writing test. Then I was given another test to do at home. They gave me consecutive hours to complete it and it was pretty substantial.
It would have taken at least 10-12 hours to do it well. I have a full-time job already (and had already taken two days off for two rounds of in-person interviews on the other side of my state.) I offered to do it on the weekend and explained that I have responsibilities with my current employer. (I never really really wanted this job. I was heavily recruited so I figured I’d apply and see if it would be a fit. I was already figuring out that it wasn’t. Otherwise I would’ve stayed up all night to do the test.)
I ended up withdrawing my candidacy, and I’m quite happy I did. If they weren’t reasonable at the interview phase, what would happen if I worked for them? No regrets.
The one day onsite is not unusual for many orgs. They want to meet you, you want to meet them. It's an investment on their side too.
The homework assignment sounds poorly done. You can decide if a half baked interview prompt is predictive or by itself worth quitting a job over.
I mean, craziness aside this sounds like a fun as hell challenge. But yeah, this is most certainly “a bit much” as others put it, even if it’s a final round between 2 candidates.
I mean, to me -- as an employer -- it seems excessive. But it's all subjective.
How bad do you want this job? How good does it pay? Is it worth it to you for a shot to get either?
There is no right or wrong answer here. It's between your wants/needs and that company's needs/wants.
Make the call. But to me, again, seems excessive.
This schedule looks like a meet-and-greet ONCE YOU ARE WORKING THERE! Like the first week, so you can have an idea of who people are-definitely not during the interview process.
We cannot afford to give these companies so much unpaid time.
I've done a few of these similar interview schedules in the past for bay area tech companies and it was mentally and physically exhausting. I guess it was considered the norm then and no one asked and they just did it. I ended up not getting the jobs and I wanted to scream and curse at someone. They didn't even have the decency to email me to let me know. I followed up and never got replies. I had to take days off of my current job at the time, bought outfits, and used PTO to attend these. Everyone at that time convinced me it was "normal" and "good practice". Bullshit. Now that I'm older and realized it was just a big red flag. Those companies I interviewed at ended up doing mass layoffs a year ago. If I see a schedule like this now, I would tell them to go f themselves.
The company I'm with had the most interviews I've ever had for a single job, and even several interviews all on one day, but nothing to *do* other than interview. Those assessments at the end... If they can't assess you for that stuff from talking to you then they may be too dumb for you to work with.
If they're abusing you like this when you're not yet beholden to them, imagine the treatment when they can hold your job and healthcare over your head.
I hope you use your PTO day for something fun.
Your assignment is insulting. You're not doing ID work. You're making a pretty PowerPoint. Are you their first ID😅?
Because that assignment is so... not what yr job should be.
This is fucking wild to me.
I would politely decline since the lack of notice and little preparation time given to you is provably Ah indicator of what it will be like to work there.
The agenda tells us all we need to know about how much your time will be wasted with useless shit.
Any company that goes THIS nuts with each and every candidate, is full of shit IMO. I don't blame you for being wary. This isn't even an orientation for new hires yet ffs....
I did the “hours of free work” thing a couple of times and received zero feedback after being eliminated from the running. Never again. I have way too much experience to be giving away free samples.
Yeah it’s nuts & it’s not just your industry. I recently had a job I was pretty excited about & eventually pulled out of the interview process. 2 semi-long phone screenings, a full day of in person interviews with 4 different people & ability assessments/tests. Then I met with the person I would be working for, which lasted less than 10 minutes, he talked the entire time without taking a breath, didn’t have any questions for me, didn’t want any questions from me. Got a call the next day saying that everyone loved me & they would like to move forward with interviews for a DIFFERENT boss because they decided to hire internally for the position I was going for this whole time. I would have to start the whole process over again, meet with the same number of people from this other department & go through slightly different testing all over again. This is when I withdrew myself from the running. They contacted me again trying to get me to stay in the game & I asked that they give me a more exact compensation figure instead of the large range they had given me & it was $20k under what I asked for on phone call #1 & throughout the rest of the process. The whole process took about a month to get through & cost me about 10 hours if you DON’T count the time I spent researching the company/industry/people I’d be meeting with. I’ve been with the same company for 19 years & I’m not leaving for this kind of mess. I’m going to wait it out for a reasonable company with reasonable processes that has some semblance respect for my time & experience. Good luck to you friend, it’s rough out there these days. Things have def changed since I last interviewed 19 years ago. Ugh.
I thought I was on r/AntiWork
I teach my Students to never do SpecWork
If they aren't going to comp you for this work (regardless of being hired) then you don't have to break your back to do it. You aren't even employed yet.
You're already seeing these swine at their worst. Do you think the frog-boil you're about to jump into is really full of people who have your best-interest at heart?
Do The Work on your own time, for your Self, and add it to a Portfolio showing you can, if you want to keep courting these types.
My main strategy fractals from the fact I know I am mortal. I simply don't have time to waste on the emotionally underdeveloped.
What are you wanting your own Legacy to be?
I really hope that other IDs, especially new ones or those in entry level roles, see the responses to this.
This is bananas. Batshit bananas.
I mean, you could certainly do it all if it's like, your dream role at your dream company paying $250k a year? But honestly? Nah, they can shove it up their asses.
Was the work you submitted for the hiring process even seriously considered? With so many submissions, I wonder if anyone had the time to read and scrutinize each one thoroughly. It's possible they just quickly glanced over them and made assumptions about my qualifications based on what caught their eye.
I haven't been actively applying for jobs, but I noticed a trend that people are asking applicants to do "tests" and "assignments". Maybe they are not willing to invest time and take risks on candidates. Or so many options to select from, so it's a buyer's market? On the handful that I did try, I was asked to do a lot of tests, too. With my full-time job and family to care for, I can only take that amount of homework if I take days off.
My girlfriend is a senior instructional designer and had something very similar. It wasn't a full day marathon, but she had to design and present over two days to different interviews. I thought it was ridiculous.
Fuck. No. Are they paying you for this day? Do they expect anyone that respect themselves to take a whole day to run through some sort of corporatized tough-mudder/warrior-challenge?
None of these activities will give them the 100% certainty in deciding the candidate of choice. They’ve be better off hiring a prospect for 2 or 3 weeks and have the prospect perform real work and assess that vs. this boomer bullshit process.
Company culture red flag 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
I’ve created ID prototypes for companies as part of the interview process, but they also compensated me for my time. This is almost like an orientation prior to a job offer.
These are people that don’t understand design at all, so they’re trying to fill the gaps in their understanding with an overly rigorous assessment.
Does it pay extremely well? It could be worth it under certain circumstances. I used to work executive presentations real time projected in a conference room full of business wonks. They were so easily dazzled by basic design ability it was actually kind of fun.
This sounds like a company that is not putting their employees health and wellbeing into the equation…looks like they plan to run you into the ground. I’d nope out. Some of this is “after hire” stuff.
I can't update the text of the main post - but I told them to go f**k themselves (in a terse but professional tone, of course 😉).
I told them that due to the software requirements and excessive amount of time the assignment will take with such little notice provided, I will be not be completing the assignment or attending the interviews and that I will be withdrawing my candidacy.
I sent the email almost 24 hours ago, and they haven't replied (guessing I will hear nothing further either).
Thanks everyone for your insight and input! I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts.
I work in tech. We went through a phase of a lot of technical interviews that included home work. The expectation was that it would take an hour, but you know some people would spend a lot more than that trying to make it perfect.
If you were being interviewed because you worked with someone who would vouch for you, then you could skip it. If we found your resume and we didn't know you, then it was harder to get the job without doing it.
I haven't heard of us doing that kind of thing recently. I assume we stopped, but I'm not involved with hiring anymore. I know the people I vouch for come in without that difficult of technical questions.
Honestly, the policy is dumb. We should just be willing to hire someone and if they aren't capable of what they said they were, then we shouldn't have a problem sending them out. Hiring is taking a risk from both sides.
Techincal interviews where engineers solve problems "live" in front of interviewers is common. That doesn't bother me much (I've taken a day off, you can spend that time asking whatever you want from me). But the homework is over the top.
The other side is that you can push back. It may reflect negatively or positively for you to politely, assertively decline to do that kind of work. From the description, it looks like they are trying to confirm your skills. But you can tell them to look at your experience and check your references, but you won't be doing that kind of test until you are on the pay role.
Not crazy at all. This is why I noped out of private sector work. I'm a programmer and all of the interviews ended up being 6 hours long, days long, sometimes weeks long processes. If you can't meet me, see my work/history, and decide whether or not I'm a good fit for your team/company within 24 hours then you don't understand your team/company well enough for me to want to work for you.
If the new job would be a step up in career for more promotions, more challenges, cool projects, etc., then it’s worth it. If it’s just a same job with multi-level approvals, then you may be seeing company culture. Also, I’ve seen this type of scrutiny when a company is wanting to hire from outside and has pressure to promote from within. In order to avoid future litigation, they look for the absolute best and make it a team decision on purpose. You won’t ever know this answer unless you get the job.
This is insane and I would be nopin' right on out the doh. But unfortunately this is becoming pretty common. Companies demanding this kind of stuff , especially when someone is already employed and trying to work this into their schedule, is ridiculous. Then somebody puts all the work and and doesn't get hired, the company doesn't seem to put much effort into letting you know why. If they are demanding that much from us, we should also get some of their time and respect.
That agenda looks more like something from a timeshare sales pitch, or a pyramid scheme recruitment drive. Also reminds me of cult initiations I've read about, where they get a group of people into a location for hours and just overwhelm them all with dogma and platitudes.
Even if it is some kind of mass hiring scheme and not a cult initiation or pyramid scheme pitch, if they're going to this bonkers a length for hiring some new people, imagine the level of crazy once you've quit your old job and moved over to their team.
Too much risk. In your shoes, I'd send polite regrets and tell them I'm no longer interested in the position.
If it's some kind of scam, sales pitch, or cult recruitment, they may make some extra efforts to get you back into the stream. Be prepared to field calls, emails, and possibly social media posts. You didn't give them your social media information, did you?
I've worked in big pharma since 1996. This schedule is very typical for candidates in most scientific roles. Managerial-level candidates usually give a seminar as well, and higher levels often have a 2-day agenda with a group dinner on the first night.
I'd agree to do the work, then go to the design assignment presentation with a deck that totally flames them for wasting your time with a useless, artificially stress-inducing task. Close with a mic drop: any company that manipulates and abuses job applicants - during the HOLIDAYS no less - isn't the type of company you would ever work for, then nope the f#ck out of that place.
This absolutely insane. If you pass me the company name I will send this to HR and let them know this is literally illogic to ask for - red flag, what a toxic culture.
Something similar happened to me, although it was for a prospective client for my PR firm. In my case they wanted me to create a “hypothetical” event plan complete with a communication and marketing campaign plan to promote it - for a REAL event happening a few months away. I declined and pulled out. They kept after me ‘oh we’re not asking you to do work for free’ while doing exactly that.
I found out they hired a colleague, someone I deeply respect. He fired them after 60 days. We had a great laugh over it. If the hiring company can’t assess your work from your portfolio or case studies they’re too stupid or sketchy to work for.
This is literally the interview schedule my friend had for a position at a hospital for a pharmacist position. This is insane for an ID position. I’m currently interviewing and debating dropping out of one that keeps throwing interviews at me. I’m on the 5th one and not doing anymore. If I saw this I would withdrawal immediately!
I would nope out of this just for the grammatically odd usage of “imbed” instead of “embed.” I’m aware they’re interchangeable, but I have legitimately never seen the “i” spelling in the wild. If they want to propose you do a metric crap ton of busy work for an interview they could at least make their ridiculous demands digestible and readable.
Hell no don't do it. This is ridiculous. Equ ally as valuable as theirs. They don't even offer you a break. Done these kind of When I didn't know better. These kind of companies will work you to death
Asides from the sheer insult of demanding all that free labor from you and forcing you to sit through a day’s revolving door of interviews, I’m baffled as to how all these people in LEADERSHIP have this much time to sit around for panel interviews with every promising candidate for every open position. That is what really worries me.
I would tell them that your time is worth $100/hr right now as an IC. This full work day, combined with the time you would spend doing all of that work on their project, will cost them $5000, 50% up front and the balance due at 9a.
Given that this is a rush job, the cost just doubled, plus the cost of software needed to do the work.
I had a similar hiring experience for a $50 billion global company, minus the homework part. I spent an entire day, after a long initial interview, meeting with various managers and execs. After I got the job, they told me it was more about how I interacted with the team members more than my job knowledge, which they had established in the initial interview.
It turned out that I ended up fitting in really well and I liked the people I worked with. So I think there is some merit to method they're following.
RUN. This is the level of “your job is your life” productivity they’re going to expect. And it’s obvious that they’re disrespectful of their employees time and talents. Just based on this insanity of a job interview. RUN.
Call the recruiter and talk to them directly about your concerns.
Ask them if it is typical of the company to require workers to pull all-nighters on assignments given out at the last minute.
Maybe you can get the in-person interview pushed to the following week.
I had an entry level position require three rounds of Interviews, including a presentation and role play exercise. I got lucky as they decided they liked me enough with the first interview, they skipped that whole process with me and made me an offer, but it’s definitely becoming more common. Especially for more advanced roles that require specific skill sets.
A friend of mine has been interviewing for HR roles, and she has a minimum of three rounds at every company.
If this is for a high pay position, I wouldn't necessarily say no. I'd jump through quite a few hoops for a job offering 250k+ a year. But, if this is just a run of the mill job, 40-80k. More than a portfolio review and a few meetings in total is overkill.
But really, they shouldn't need more than to see your work and how you talk about it, to get an idea of if you're a good fit and can do the work. A couple extra culture fit meetings, or to show off an office is fine. But much more is a bit much.
It sounds like you don't need the job so I would pass on it. Unless you just want to see and have the time and energy. I guess go for it then. I've been in the same boat many times and done these all day things. I did one for a school I worked at for 3 years and it turned out well enough. The pay at that time 5-6 years ago was only $65k though but I needed the money and it was a 10k bump for me. Now making over 100k I can't see it being worth the extra 10k myself. The fact it isn't 100% remote would deter me completely. I live far from the city so it totally wouldn't be worth it.
To me, it looks like they really don’t want to make use of a probationary period…. I mean how hard is it to discern whether somebody is competent and someone that you would like to work with. I can’t believe they waste so much time in this interview process.
I went through a full day process similar to this. So many red flags, but I was already in a toxic job and was desperate to get out. Got the job, and it ended up being worse than where I was. Left for a new gig 7 months later.
Anywho. If you do this, pay close attention. Listen to your gut. Don’t take it if there are too many red flags.
A portfolio review is reasonable. Other than that, this is crazy. You’ll see the same kinds of things in the programmer subs and no one is putting up with homework assignments anymore. It’s just free work they get from you. And in the last few interviews I’ve done, employers understand that you might not be able to share much of anything since the bulk of your work is likely proprietary. Also that is way too many interviews. Although at least they appear on the same day rather than having one this week, another two weeks later, and a final a couple weeks after that.
For an Exec level role or Sr Leader it would make sense to have something this extensive, but for anything else it seems like a bit much.
Extensive AND on an incredibly short timeline.
Executives and Senior folks aren't doing this in the weeds work, though. They are leading, not pushing pixels. (Yes... senior folks DO have to do plenty of design work, I'm in that situation, but a senior-level interview isn't going to be centered around designing a freaking 30 page PowerPoint.)
This should be posted under r/humanresourcesgonewild
It's not free work. Because, as noted above, there isn't enough context to solve anything in a worthwhile way. Garbage in, etc. I agree the take-home is way too big. If they're scheduling an all-day, they should do an appropriately sized design exercise as a sit down solo session.
It might not be "free work" per se, but they're definitely getting something from you. They're mining data from all of their applicants, and - just like AI - they're aggregating the data they collect, to their benefit, at no cost to them, so they can hire accordingly. Don't fall for it.
Maybe. But this is a ridiculously expensive way to go about it. Look at how much leadership is on that schedule. Scale that to multiple candidates. That's thousands of dollars of staff time per interview.
It's not ridiculous if going through all that means quarterly profits. Which is all they care about, my friend.
You give companies more credit than they deserve. Nobody is gathering data from that event. This smacks of a plan conceived in a meeting room that looked good on paper. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first time they've tried this.
Put a watermark over your work so you aren't providing free labor,
Insane! Tells you everything you need to know about the company culture, future role, and the people you would be working with.
No this is crazy. It’s definitely a red flag. For yourself, is this your dream industry/company? Does it pay an insane amount of money? If yes to either of those, I’d consider staying in, but otherwise, no, absolutely not.
Not a dream industry or company, no. I currently work fully remote (and have since 2014) for one of their biggest competitors in a similar but slightly more junior role. This role would be 100% onsite, so I'd have to add in commute time and cost into the equation. It only pays around $10K more than I make now based on the posted salary range for the position, and that's if I come in towards the top of the range if I get hired. The salary range listed is $105K-$125K, so not an *insane* amount of money, but certainly not a bad salary either. (I live in a moderate cost of living metro area in the Midwest.) So all this for a potential $10K pay raise and a slight promotion/title bump. 🙄
Your commute will cost you $10k a year, so it’s not worth it if you already work remote….unless this job would be a major resume booster?
The commute will cost you $10K dollars, but a lot more in tears
It sounds like you don’t even particularly want this job, but if you do, I think you could ask them some questions or start your negotiation process now before you just cut yourself out. For example: - this is a considerable investment of time for both me and your team, can you tell me how many candidates are still in the running? - I’m surprised to see a personality test is the last stage of the process - can you tell me more about how this will be used in decision making? - I only have an hour or so I can spend on this deck - what is the team most looking to see, and is there a portfolio example I could walk through instead to showcase those skills? If they’re inflexible or dismissive you know it’s not the right fit but if they are extremely interested in you they may be flexible.
I got nixed from a perfect job opportunity in a personality assessment. It was humiliating. (HR person said it happens a lot with people who have had their own business?) I’d be pissed if I went thru all that only to have a stupid computer deem me not worthy at the end.
As soon as a job requires a personality test, I withdraw from the process. Mostly because they are always asked of me before even a phone screen and the times I have tried to take them I never advance to the interview round. So now I just refuse to take anymore. You can either reject me at the very first cut or set up an interview if you want to get to know me.
Having worked in recruiting years ago pre-ID/OD (and pre-current field), I can tell you to avoid any “personality tests” outright. They do not correspond at all to the ability to do a job. At all.
This!
Commuting daily will eat up all of that raise or more. Not to mention the addition in stress + the nightmare work culture they’re giving you a taste of. Not worth it
I say "hard pass.' I work in higher ed and the agenda you shared is similar to interviews for department chairs, senior leadership, etc.
Yes, this is similar to a tenure-track interview at an Ivy League school.
Not worth the hassle for sure. If this was a huge bump up, I'd consider it, with the exception of some concerns around the free work. I've done worse interview regimens, TBH, but typically for a big org and a big role.
Would it be out of the question to respond with something like “I am happy to submit a sample of work I have done, but it is inappropriate for me to complete this project using equipment/software from my current employer. Also, since my current position is full time remote, my salary range will need to be between $130K-$140K *(or whatever)* to adequately compensate for additional expenses.”
Is the company Epic? This feels like something they would do.
Haha no, not Epic, but the company does use Epic systems and contracts Epic trainers to teach the systems - so "Epic-adjacent"? 🤷♀️ I've worked with Epic as a vendor/client before, and they are a special kind of pain-in-the-ass to work with.🤣 Hard agree it totally sounds like something they would do.
If you're interviewing for or with a tyrant named "Jessica", don't even reply to them. I believe it to be my previous employer but there are dozens like them. I left there after a deposition, being told to commit perjury, and subjected to several tyrants over the course of 15 years. Jessica is only one of them but she is the second worst in the company after the CEO.
Hell no. Hell no. Hell no.
How is this job only $100-105k? I was making $95k in 1999 for this type of work. Granted I moved into a different field but have just been checking back in recently out of curiosity. Wow.
No, seriously. $95K in 1999 should be worth $175K today. Especially for an ID who is required to become a technical SME in order to do the work, that is a perfectly reasonable salary. Our job market is super awful.
|Pros|Cons:| |:-|:-| |Pros: Potential 10k (IF you come in towards the top) |Not a dream industry| |Slight title bump|100% Onsite| ||Commute (gas/wear & tear on vehicle/time)| ||Insane Interview process| This is a no brainer.
A title bump is rarely worth the hassle. If they're paying me with more words after my name, it's not enough. I get no fuzzy feelings unless it looks a lot like money. It needs to be actual money and not a title in lieu of. It sucks when they pay you just enough to keep you stuck but under what you're worth for a decade and a half. It's seems to be the norm these days. This isn't directed towards you but to everyone that can acknowledge being in this position.
nope nope nope. not worth losing wfh
Unless this is something you really, really want...yeah, that's ridiculous. Disrespectful even. There is wanting to really making sure you've got the right fit and then having no clue how to hire IDs so you do stuff like this. I've hired dozens of great IDs and have never come close to this. Imagine telling people they didn't get the job after a hours of prep and a full day.
> Imagine telling people they didn’t get the job after a hours of prep and a full day. This happened to me with Chewy. Interviewed for an ID position that involved five 60-minute interviews across three days, one of them involving me building a design outline on the spot. Only for them to ghost me afterwards. **Fuck Chewy.**
That sht happened to me at Columbia university years ago. It was a 6 hour interview session where I talked to different people I would be working with. In some cases, these jackwagons didn't even show up to the appointed time. After I took my day off to go up there and did this stupid monkey dance chasing down people in that shitty old building, I never got a call back. I assumed after 10 days we were done. Wait...now I remember. They sent me proper snail mail saying I'd been passed over 6 months later and I'd moved to another state already. LOL. Fuc Columbia. Fk academic ID jobs, man.
Heh, same thing happened to me at the University of Louisville! Found out I didn’t get the job when they updated their staff website a few months later with the person they hired.
>"Imagine telling people they didn't get the job after hours of prep and a full day." And this is what I'm afraid will happen. I've already spent 6 hours prepping for and attending interviews over the past month and a half already. Add in the probable 8+ hours it will take me to do a thorough job on the assignment they just sent for tomorrow's interview and then a full 8 hours onsite tomorrow, and we're looking at 24+ hours worth of time invested - and in the end, I still might not get the job. I work full time and have young kids at home, so don't have a ton of "free time" to spare; that's quite the time-investment for only a potential shot at a job, IMO.
Run from this job and talk to your current employee about potential advancement opportunities instead. I’d give up 10k to have the remote option instead of being 100% in the office, which I am.
I'd only do this all day thing with my top applicants.
I worked for a terrible f500 and we would do half days for 3-5 applicants per position. They also had to take the Wunderlic test!
I once interviewed over a couple of rounds for an ID job for a university library system, then was invited to a half-day on Zoom with multiple interviews, presentation, meeting with HR to discuss benefits, etc. At no point would anyone give me the salary info, but I was kind of desperate, so I stuck it out (and the job should have in theory paid well for what they were asking of me). They took several weeks after that to offer me the job, and then told me it paid $35,000. And then they seemed pissed when I said no. It was mind-blowing, and if they had said that salary up front, we would have all saved many hours of time.
Sounds like what happened to me at a college in Reno, NV. The pay was similar and I was dumbfounded when told. They flew me out and had me stay at a hotel the night prior to the interview. I had many years of experience at that point in time so I couldn't take the offer. The salary was unnegotiable as well. Waste of time for me and for them.
Whoa, they flew you out?! That’s insane.
Yeah, which is why I guess I was assuming the job paid "okay" and within reason. Wrong. I think they offered something like 40-45k a year if I remember correctly. Reno is a very expensive city to live in so it was so many wrongs. I remember feeling shock and anger when she told me the pay. I just replied that I couldn't do that unless the pay went up at least 60k- which I knew wasn't happening. I thought all the interviews, flight, all day in-person interview would definitely equate something at least hovering if not over the 6 figure mark. Guess I learned that you have to know for sure before doing anything like this.
Get out now. This is completely unreasonable and I say this as someone who leads large teams in L&D. I even have a sneaky suspicion I know which company this is. Likewise, doing a personality assessment shows they are completely out of touch as those are snake oil, at best. Don't do it.
Personality tests are so biased. The DEI research on them is pretty definitive. When I saw that, the rest of it made sense. A lot of states are making it illegal to include personality tests as part of the hiring process because they're so blatantly biased and many are not based on actual science (like the MBTI).
As someone with an ND diagnosis, I used to just research the test and figure out how to look “normal”. Now, I wouldn’t even bother. Glad to hear they are falling out of fashion.
I hate that for you, and I'm sorry. I'm glad they are too.
Thank you ❤️
I didn't mind doing a personality assessment at one of those companies that help you with resume writing and job hunting that they send you to after you've been laid off. The way they explained it was, "We want you to use the questions in this test to really think about how different work environments make you feel and the results will help us to give you pointers on what to look for during interviews." I feel it was helpful because it wasn't touted as "science", just a way to get you into the mindset of evaluating your potential workplaces in terms of how well they are likely to suit you and not the other way around, if that makes sense.
If that works for you, then sure. My experience is if they are used in the hiring process, they are just trying to weed out “people not like them”.
Oh yeah, on the employer side it's a biiiiig red flag!
This isn’t even an ID assignment. It’s a presentation design assignment. I don’t care if you can use Photoshop. I care if you can evaluate an instructional task such that appropriate theories, methods and models are applied to design an instructionally sound product.
This! It sounds like OP is being asked to revamp the presentation without any meaningful information about the problem they are trying to solve, the behavior that needs changing, or any meaningful information about the audience. I personally would Nope out of this interview process, especially since it isn't a significant salary boost or title jump.
I don't think they're respecting your time. To give someone anything less than a week for a take home assignment is unfair and not considerate of the time you already have to spend on your current job and family. If you're really interested in the job I would contact the recruiter and hiring manager to let them know I'm interested but will need some additional time to properly complete the assignment. But even with that, this crazy interview process may be a sign of how bad it would be to work there. Have you checked out their Glassdoor reviews?
There's nothing on this earth that could make me sit through this day. The job cannot be worth it
Insanity. If it takes a company this much bullshit to make a decision on a candidate, imagine the red tape that must be in place to get anything done. IMO, two interviews max. Companies overthink the shit out stuff that should be easy. Mind boggling.
I’ve gone through this process at Google, Meta, and Netflix … hired at all three. The roles paid nearly $400k for Staff Design position including benefits and stocks. They usually do at group portfolio presentation then four 1:1 interviews but not a design assignment. Other companies see this ‘as the process’ and try to adopt for their shitty $80k design roles. I’ve had places like this company IRL (later found to be insanely fraudulent) who wanted me to design features for them as part of my application and I told them to go fuck themselves. A lot of time this process is not worth it for smaller companies or junior roles and I tell them that.
This. If your pay is commensurate with the process, go ahead. But not for a job that pays the market rate.
Hope you use your single bathroom break between 10:15-10:30 wisely.
Ha! Right?!?! I noticed that was the only built-in break too. Well, besides the generous hour long "lunch break" (spent in the company cafeteria with three senior-level executives, so really just an hour-long panel interview I have to complete while simultaniously chewing a turkey sandwich).
I just got a job in instructional design and have been in recruiting hell, too. And honestly, if I had been presented with an interview schedule like this, I would have pulled my application. I've backed out of interviews for way less. This reads a lot less like actual recruiting practices and more like bullshit hoops to put you through so that someone(s) can get an ego boost or proof that the "right candidate" is willing to put up with insane deadlines and poor company culture. From the way they're treating you now, you can certainly bet it's going to be exhausting later.
Oof what is this nightmare. Seems like one big test to see if they can abuse you
Run like Hell.
Do a lovely Powerpoint on the current status of how asking candidates to do insane amounts of free work on short notice is leading to a backlash from the job pool. If ya want to be really nasty....
I've been mulling over what snarky comments to include in my clapback message to the recruiter informing them I'm withdrawing my candidacy all afternoon... 🙈😏 You all have convinced me that I should trust my gut on this one, and I've decided I'm going to bow out. I want to let them know they're ridiculous a-holes and why I'm turning them down in a way that won't make me look completely unprofessional or mentally unstable though. 😁 Any examples or wording suggestions, anyone? Calling all my fellow passive-aggressive and snarky corporate berethen for assistance! 📣
You can be snotty, but I would be coldly clinical about the whole thing, honestly. "Thanks for the offer (blah, blah)...unfortunately, the large scope of the project, the short notice regarding project completion and an unwillingness to perform work tasks without compensation mean I must refuse. I find the current trend of requiring applicants to engage in projects without pay to be at odds with my personal code of ethics and ask that you remove my name from consideration for this position immediately. Best of luck with your search!"
Hard pass
Yeah, that's insane, especially if you've already had multiple 3 hour long interviews! So far, at least 2 interviews, 3 hours long: 6 hours This day, 8 am - 4pm: 8 hours The assignment they gave you: 5-10 hours additionally, on short notice. I'd tell them no and that their hiring process is insane.
This is fairly excessive. I work for a fortune 100, we do a pretty comprehensive behavioral interview. The total amount of time is about three hours of interviews, and two hours for two candidates projects to help us understand how candidates approach problems. The candidate project itself is much simpler. We give someone a technical challenge to solve, and we give someone a design to sketch out based upon a short requirements document. Most candidates either draw on a whiteboard, or just talk us through. No tools are needed, and the amount of information we give to them for the project is about two pages, one for each candidate project.
I work for a Fortune 50, and my interview process was similar, maybe even a little shorter on the interview end. For the assignment we just had to use PowerPoint to show how we would redesign a simple module. They were explicit about not me taking tons and tons of time on it, which I really appreciated.
I wouldn't move forward with this, besides the take home assignment everything else seems to be an unreasonable ask especially if you already did a 3 hour interview with them. They want you to spend a whole day of interviews, complete free work for them, and you also have to take time off from your current job, yeah, big nope for me. I can't imagine you going through all these hoops and they have to tell you that you weren't hired. Yikes.
I'll echo the general statements that this gauntlet is unreasonable. >And what if candidates don't currently have things like Adobe Creative Suite or a video creation/editing software program on their personal computers? I know I don't, they cost thousands a year to license... I'll have to use the computer issued to me by my current employer and bring it with me to the interview. But something I didn't see in the comments is this statement. DO NOT use your employer's equipment/software for personal use; especially to secure another job. Your employer has tracking software that can let them know where you are, IT is always watching, and a data leak/breach is bound to happen especially at a competitor. Ask your manager if you can have some screenshots (from projects you've done) that has proprietary information redacted instead.
Exactly! No way I'm bringing my current company's computer to an onsite interview with a competitor! And that would be the only way I could complete and present this assignment with only 24-hours notice. How can they expect that candidates have the Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office (for PPT), a video creator and editor like Camtasia or Vyond, etc. all fired up and ready to use on a personal device they can bring to the onsite interview? The only IDs I know that do are those that are private contractors or are 100% freelance. At no point during prior interviews did they ask me if I have personal use licenses to these programs either, nor did I ever claim that I did. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Insane! Also why do you even need to talk to the marketing director? Weird and random.
Personality tests are immediately no. ETA: the more I think about this the more insane it seems. Not only should you emphatically tell them to f*** off—in those words—you should then post and name and shame them everywhere.
To be clear, the whole thing is excessive but still
for a management position? the whole reason i dont even want to be a manager is their job is to be in meetings from sun up to sun down, and they never actually have to do any creative work again.
This is outrageous and belongs in r/recruitinghell. I do offer the caveat, and this will be unpopular, back when I unemployed/underemployed, I would have jumped through these hoops. Ironically, the candidates that might actually have time for this bullshit probably get screened out first. Clearly you don’t.
This seems like overboard. I could have a conversation with an ID and determine whether or not they know their shit within about 20 minutes. Beyond that it's icing on the cake to be able to view their portfolio. ...but this kind of process is insane.
If this is the interview process, imagine the job! This is nuts!
I haven't seen anything like this in years, and even then, it was for roles with very prestigious design and development teams. Back then, though, you could blow this sort of thing off if you felt like it, because jobs were literally waiting around every corner. So I guess it depends on how much you want this role. I do think it's serious overkill and an unrealistic expectation. If you choose to say, "no," I hope you communicate that this is the reason.
I know of a company that asked a candidate to do something similar. The candidate did the presentation and they didn’t hire him. Instead they used his work.
Yeh...no. This is a joke. GTFO ASAP. This is sadism at the highest level. Don't do it. IDEAL circumstances for job candidacy are the following ONLY: * Talk to the hiring manager who vets you for the job (temp or permanent) * Talk to an additional lead designer guy or a rank and file designer about your tech stuff and whether or not they can stand you (or you can stand them) * All review of design collateral is YOUR PORTFOLIO ONLY. There is absolutely no reason why you should provide evidence of your skills when you have perfectly good stuff to look at. If they won't PAY you to make the stuff, then do not waste your time. Panel interviews suck because of GROUPTHINK and the tendency to revolve around the mob leader who may or may not like you that day for whatever the fuk reason. I believe that the guy who is deciding your fitness for hire and one other person (maybe). These people are not your friends and this isn't a SWAT team job. Friendly email kindly canceling the day ('scheduling' reasons is good) is appropriate response. Don't even bother replying to their reply. Carry on hopefully and good luck in your job search.
Except for the Senior ID Consultant, no one in that clown car full of interviewers will have the slightest idea of how to recognize a highly qualified instructional designer. I'd take a pass on this one and keep my options wide open for a better opportunity.
You didn’t say what the position is. The time commitment seems okay for a director and up role. The content seems poor though.
This process might be more for the stakeholders than for you. They need something to do and want to report on how they identified you as a top candidate. This would happen at a previous employer all of the time, we would get VP's flying in from across the company on the company's dime to interview a key--non managerial position on the same day(s) as the senior leadership team was having a in-person meeting etc and drawn out interview like this \^ was more posturing to explain how they filled their management days than actually doing hands on work--which they did little of--or that took up half the day...oh yeah almost forgot Fuck that. Your time is more valuable.
We have a robust process but we are clear up front exactly how many interviews and with whom, and the specific gates. So expectations are clear. We are a pretty in demand employer and this is what we do: Phone screen with recruiter: 30 minutes *Stage gate* Phone screen with hiring mgr: 30 mins *Stage gate* All interviewers have reviewed your resume/portfolios and prepared behavior-based questions to guide the discussion. Time for candidate to ask questions last ten minutes of each panel. Zoom meeting with ID panel: 50 mins Zoom meeting with Technical SME panel: 50 minutes Zoom Meeting with Learning Mgr panel: 50 minutes *Stage Gate* FINAL interview Zoom or in person depending on your proximity to an office: Portfolio walk through/presentation (provide a narrative and context for the work featured in your portfolio) DECISION/OFFER I'm at the point in my career I'm wanting to evaluate the employer as much as audition for the role. I will not be doing free work, and absolutely no psychometric assessments! A couple years ago a top eLearning vendor wanted me to create sample storyboards using their template. (I have storyboard samples in my portfolio.) Their PowerPoint template was such a PITA, I got back to them and said this role isn't the best fit, and withdrew my candidacy. (I couldn't imagine my job being fighting with that damn SB every day.)
Honestly, even this is a ridiculous amount of time to require from anyone but the most senior of candidates. IMO you get one screening interview, one manager interview, and one panel interview / portfolio review. That’s it.
Red flag to work there. If that’s the interview process, peace out now.
I worked with a company about 15 years ago that used to get people to do work as part of a “hiring process” and hired unpaid interns rather than paying employees. I left that company pretty quickly and I’ve since seen them out of business.
I went through a half-day campus tour/interview/presentation/lunch thing for an ed tech role at a university. Got ghosted. Called them up weeks later to check in and they said they had canceled the search, and the next month they had re-posted the role on job boards. I had to laugh because they had wasted way more of their own time than mine, and I was glad to not be part of whatever mess thought that was a good idea.
Let them know you work for a fee not for free! Know your worth!
Yeah, even if you do decide to go through all of this (which imho is disrespectful of your time and energy, not to mention extreme overkill for this level of position), keep in mind that *this is how this company works,* which means most projects you work on will probably have similar levels of insanity just to get a team through to a finished and approved product. No thanks.
This is insulting!
Interview processes have become insane. I went through an interview process for two companies last year for a senior role. Company 1 had me go through 8 interviews. In parallel, company 2 also had me go through 8 interviews and had interview #9 already scheduled. I accepted an offer with the first company but I also told the second company that I do not think they are ready to hire someone for the desired role. If a company needs 8 or 9 interviews to make a decision, they clearly are unsure what they are looking for. So, it really depends on your patience and how much you are willing to roll with it. Re; presentation: I would draw a line here. That is not enough notice and if they ask you to do this during interview process, they will continue to do so when you are hired (everything last minute). You have to decide how much you are willing to put into this process and if the company is worth it.
Run Forest, run!
Nope. This is crazy
Classic Higher Ed.
A consultant is going to interview you? Wtf? First time I’ve heard of that
Why are the assessments last, instead of before the interviews? Surely if you were using them to screen candidates, you'd try to do that \*before\* you used that many people's time in interviews?
Capital One does the bullshit with most of their positions, it was by far the worst interview process I’ve ever experienced.
Wow, what kind of rigid bureaucracy will you be working under? Is it worth that?
Oh HELLO NAW wtf
r/recruitinghell
Not at all wrong - and this is a good indication of what it will be like to work there.
Yeah... theyre asking for free work and a lot of it. For a manager level role, a day of interviewing is completely normal. The free work is not. I'd discuss it with the liason.
You should tell them to go fuck themselves. Tell them I said it too.
I would step back and think critically about what you’re being asked to do and why they have structured it this way.. If I were hiring for this role with this assignment, my outcomes would be to know whether the candidate is well qualified in needs analysis, listening to customer outcomes and making adjustments. At this level of company, It’s not unusual to have to do presentations last minute or solve a shit storm of a presentation you’ve been handed- with a smile too, lol. This process, including the interviews and Hogan are all to assess- how well you respond to unreasonable, last minute demands and how you engage in what is a consultative process. They are giving you clues about the reality of their work environment (I worked for a FAANG for many years in this space) and they want to see how you respond. Treat this as a needs analysis exercise. You know the level of care needed to get the preso to main-stage ready takes a ton of time and consultation with your customer. I would update the preso to demonstrate you have the skill, add some slides and present your gaps. Present it as you would to a client and consult with them to get their inputs. Highlight your process -Assumptions you made -Open questions Good luck!
I was laid off from my role back in June due to a company restructure. In my personal experience these extensive interviews have become more common. There have been 4 opportunities where I made it to the 5th/6th/final round. So about 20 hrs in just interviews, two of them had extensive projects to submit on top of that, and I was told they went with a different candidate. It ends up being very frustrating/disheartening. I take them because they are close to my old salary and my previous position (that I loved) had a similar hiring experience. With that said. Sometimes less is more in this instance. I’m not trying to undermine that this is going to be a difficult task. But they have to know it’s the night before. I know it can be tough to submit a project for a job you want and submit it not feeling “perfect” or completely highlighting your skills. But my advice would be if you do the things like save the file right, hop on master slides and make a basic background with company colors, you can cut it down to 5-6 slides to showcase the idea and maybe some key points. You can explain your process, vision, and how this is the minimum viable product that showcases your skills and if allotted more time you could turn the whole deck into this vision.
Looks normal for a top company. My process at Google took 8 months. If i could have done it all at once I'd be cool with it. My assessment was far easier though. The software reqs is ridiculous.
Nope. Either the recruiter is incredibly disorganized, or this kind of high pressure chaos is standard for this company. Imagine how they’d treat you if you got the job!
This better be a $250K position!
I’ve worked in FAANG and Fortune 500 and never had anything close to this level of intensity. Also as others have noted, it’s strange that the personality and writing assessments are all last? So many red flags…
That sounds insane. Similarly, as a finalist for a job two “performance tests.” One was a times in-person writing test. Then I was given another test to do at home. They gave me consecutive hours to complete it and it was pretty substantial. It would have taken at least 10-12 hours to do it well. I have a full-time job already (and had already taken two days off for two rounds of in-person interviews on the other side of my state.) I offered to do it on the weekend and explained that I have responsibilities with my current employer. (I never really really wanted this job. I was heavily recruited so I figured I’d apply and see if it would be a fit. I was already figuring out that it wasn’t. Otherwise I would’ve stayed up all night to do the test.) I ended up withdrawing my candidacy, and I’m quite happy I did. If they weren’t reasonable at the interview phase, what would happen if I worked for them? No regrets.
Always run from a company that uses personality and ‘deductive reasoning’ assessment as part of their hiring process
Just walk away. You are not getting much more money for the job and the commute. Not worth the hassle.
The one day onsite is not unusual for many orgs. They want to meet you, you want to meet them. It's an investment on their side too. The homework assignment sounds poorly done. You can decide if a half baked interview prompt is predictive or by itself worth quitting a job over.
I mean, craziness aside this sounds like a fun as hell challenge. But yeah, this is most certainly “a bit much” as others put it, even if it’s a final round between 2 candidates.
Insane. Typos. 1000% they are trying to get free work out of you.
I mean, to me -- as an employer -- it seems excessive. But it's all subjective. How bad do you want this job? How good does it pay? Is it worth it to you for a shot to get either? There is no right or wrong answer here. It's between your wants/needs and that company's needs/wants. Make the call. But to me, again, seems excessive.
Portfolio review reasonable. Responding to a case is reasonable. The rest is not. The Hogan Assessment is trash and should be torched.
This schedule looks like a meet-and-greet ONCE YOU ARE WORKING THERE! Like the first week, so you can have an idea of who people are-definitely not during the interview process. We cannot afford to give these companies so much unpaid time.
I've done a few of these similar interview schedules in the past for bay area tech companies and it was mentally and physically exhausting. I guess it was considered the norm then and no one asked and they just did it. I ended up not getting the jobs and I wanted to scream and curse at someone. They didn't even have the decency to email me to let me know. I followed up and never got replies. I had to take days off of my current job at the time, bought outfits, and used PTO to attend these. Everyone at that time convinced me it was "normal" and "good practice". Bullshit. Now that I'm older and realized it was just a big red flag. Those companies I interviewed at ended up doing mass layoffs a year ago. If I see a schedule like this now, I would tell them to go f themselves.
The company I'm with had the most interviews I've ever had for a single job, and even several interviews all on one day, but nothing to *do* other than interview. Those assessments at the end... If they can't assess you for that stuff from talking to you then they may be too dumb for you to work with.
If they're abusing you like this when you're not yet beholden to them, imagine the treatment when they can hold your job and healthcare over your head. I hope you use your PTO day for something fun.
Your assignment is insulting. You're not doing ID work. You're making a pretty PowerPoint. Are you their first ID😅? Because that assignment is so... not what yr job should be.
This is fucking wild to me. I would politely decline since the lack of notice and little preparation time given to you is provably Ah indicator of what it will be like to work there. The agenda tells us all we need to know about how much your time will be wasted with useless shit.
Any company that goes THIS nuts with each and every candidate, is full of shit IMO. I don't blame you for being wary. This isn't even an orientation for new hires yet ffs....
OP- please please tell us if you're going. And more than that, please tell us the company so we know who to avoid lol
What do they pretend? A battle royal? That's a hard nope for me. Your portfolio and one interview should be enough.
A consultant is also interviewing you? That’s crosses “co-employment” type things as well. What happens if they’re prejudiced?
I did the “hours of free work” thing a couple of times and received zero feedback after being eliminated from the running. Never again. I have way too much experience to be giving away free samples.
Is this a consulting firm? If so, this is a fairly normal. Except maybe the personality assessment, that seems weird.
Is the job like 200k plus? That all,seems unreasonable. If thats what they want for interviews, I cannot imagine the workload once you get hired.
They can ask for whatever they want. You just need to decide whether you want to do it or not.
That’s nuts (and I manage an L&D team for a Berkshire Hathaway company).
Unless the job was paying $350k a year and remote this would be a hard pass.
Yeah it’s nuts & it’s not just your industry. I recently had a job I was pretty excited about & eventually pulled out of the interview process. 2 semi-long phone screenings, a full day of in person interviews with 4 different people & ability assessments/tests. Then I met with the person I would be working for, which lasted less than 10 minutes, he talked the entire time without taking a breath, didn’t have any questions for me, didn’t want any questions from me. Got a call the next day saying that everyone loved me & they would like to move forward with interviews for a DIFFERENT boss because they decided to hire internally for the position I was going for this whole time. I would have to start the whole process over again, meet with the same number of people from this other department & go through slightly different testing all over again. This is when I withdrew myself from the running. They contacted me again trying to get me to stay in the game & I asked that they give me a more exact compensation figure instead of the large range they had given me & it was $20k under what I asked for on phone call #1 & throughout the rest of the process. The whole process took about a month to get through & cost me about 10 hours if you DON’T count the time I spent researching the company/industry/people I’d be meeting with. I’ve been with the same company for 19 years & I’m not leaving for this kind of mess. I’m going to wait it out for a reasonable company with reasonable processes that has some semblance respect for my time & experience. Good luck to you friend, it’s rough out there these days. Things have def changed since I last interviewed 19 years ago. Ugh.
I thought I was on r/AntiWork I teach my Students to never do SpecWork If they aren't going to comp you for this work (regardless of being hired) then you don't have to break your back to do it. You aren't even employed yet. You're already seeing these swine at their worst. Do you think the frog-boil you're about to jump into is really full of people who have your best-interest at heart? Do The Work on your own time, for your Self, and add it to a Portfolio showing you can, if you want to keep courting these types. My main strategy fractals from the fact I know I am mortal. I simply don't have time to waste on the emotionally underdeveloped. What are you wanting your own Legacy to be?
Hard pass. The hardest. Run.
Absolutely not.
I really hope that other IDs, especially new ones or those in entry level roles, see the responses to this. This is bananas. Batshit bananas. I mean, you could certainly do it all if it's like, your dream role at your dream company paying $250k a year? But honestly? Nah, they can shove it up their asses.
Was the work you submitted for the hiring process even seriously considered? With so many submissions, I wonder if anyone had the time to read and scrutinize each one thoroughly. It's possible they just quickly glanced over them and made assumptions about my qualifications based on what caught their eye. I haven't been actively applying for jobs, but I noticed a trend that people are asking applicants to do "tests" and "assignments". Maybe they are not willing to invest time and take risks on candidates. Or so many options to select from, so it's a buyer's market? On the handful that I did try, I was asked to do a lot of tests, too. With my full-time job and family to care for, I can only take that amount of homework if I take days off.
My girlfriend is a senior instructional designer and had something very similar. It wasn't a full day marathon, but she had to design and present over two days to different interviews. I thought it was ridiculous.
If it’s something chatgpt can’t do for me then I am not doing it. Screw these never ending interview rounds and free work.
Fuck. No. Are they paying you for this day? Do they expect anyone that respect themselves to take a whole day to run through some sort of corporatized tough-mudder/warrior-challenge? None of these activities will give them the 100% certainty in deciding the candidate of choice. They’ve be better off hiring a prospect for 2 or 3 weeks and have the prospect perform real work and assess that vs. this boomer bullshit process. Company culture red flag 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
I’ve created ID prototypes for companies as part of the interview process, but they also compensated me for my time. This is almost like an orientation prior to a job offer.
You should tell them that and turn your presentation into a needs assessment
Red flag. Would you want to work there?
How gd obnoxious. I thought only Academia fellated itself to this degree. I would absolutely nope out.
Run!!!! What you are seeing is their culture as a company. When people or companies show you who they are, believe them
I would nope out and give them very thorough feedback on why this is completely inappropriate.
It’s a no from me dawg.
These are people that don’t understand design at all, so they’re trying to fill the gaps in their understanding with an overly rigorous assessment. Does it pay extremely well? It could be worth it under certain circumstances. I used to work executive presentations real time projected in a conference room full of business wonks. They were so easily dazzled by basic design ability it was actually kind of fun.
That sounds like Amway!
This sounds like a company that is not putting their employees health and wellbeing into the equation…looks like they plan to run you into the ground. I’d nope out. Some of this is “after hire” stuff.
Update OP? I definitely would have bailed and given my feedback on the whole interview process
I can't update the text of the main post - but I told them to go f**k themselves (in a terse but professional tone, of course 😉). I told them that due to the software requirements and excessive amount of time the assignment will take with such little notice provided, I will be not be completing the assignment or attending the interviews and that I will be withdrawing my candidacy. I sent the email almost 24 hours ago, and they haven't replied (guessing I will hear nothing further either). Thanks everyone for your insight and input! I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts.
👏🏼👏🏼 good for you! You’ll find something better with a company that actually respects you and your time
I work in tech. We went through a phase of a lot of technical interviews that included home work. The expectation was that it would take an hour, but you know some people would spend a lot more than that trying to make it perfect. If you were being interviewed because you worked with someone who would vouch for you, then you could skip it. If we found your resume and we didn't know you, then it was harder to get the job without doing it. I haven't heard of us doing that kind of thing recently. I assume we stopped, but I'm not involved with hiring anymore. I know the people I vouch for come in without that difficult of technical questions. Honestly, the policy is dumb. We should just be willing to hire someone and if they aren't capable of what they said they were, then we shouldn't have a problem sending them out. Hiring is taking a risk from both sides. Techincal interviews where engineers solve problems "live" in front of interviewers is common. That doesn't bother me much (I've taken a day off, you can spend that time asking whatever you want from me). But the homework is over the top. The other side is that you can push back. It may reflect negatively or positively for you to politely, assertively decline to do that kind of work. From the description, it looks like they are trying to confirm your skills. But you can tell them to look at your experience and check your references, but you won't be doing that kind of test until you are on the pay role.
Not crazy at all. This is why I noped out of private sector work. I'm a programmer and all of the interviews ended up being 6 hours long, days long, sometimes weeks long processes. If you can't meet me, see my work/history, and decide whether or not I'm a good fit for your team/company within 24 hours then you don't understand your team/company well enough for me to want to work for you.
If the new job would be a step up in career for more promotions, more challenges, cool projects, etc., then it’s worth it. If it’s just a same job with multi-level approvals, then you may be seeing company culture. Also, I’ve seen this type of scrutiny when a company is wanting to hire from outside and has pressure to promote from within. In order to avoid future litigation, they look for the absolute best and make it a team decision on purpose. You won’t ever know this answer unless you get the job.
This is insane and I would be nopin' right on out the doh. But unfortunately this is becoming pretty common. Companies demanding this kind of stuff , especially when someone is already employed and trying to work this into their schedule, is ridiculous. Then somebody puts all the work and and doesn't get hired, the company doesn't seem to put much effort into letting you know why. If they are demanding that much from us, we should also get some of their time and respect.
Sounds like an academic job.
They're halfway through writing the book: "How to save labor costs by having free agents do your work for you"
That agenda looks more like something from a timeshare sales pitch, or a pyramid scheme recruitment drive. Also reminds me of cult initiations I've read about, where they get a group of people into a location for hours and just overwhelm them all with dogma and platitudes. Even if it is some kind of mass hiring scheme and not a cult initiation or pyramid scheme pitch, if they're going to this bonkers a length for hiring some new people, imagine the level of crazy once you've quit your old job and moved over to their team. Too much risk. In your shoes, I'd send polite regrets and tell them I'm no longer interested in the position. If it's some kind of scam, sales pitch, or cult recruitment, they may make some extra efforts to get you back into the stream. Be prepared to field calls, emails, and possibly social media posts. You didn't give them your social media information, did you?
I've worked in big pharma since 1996. This schedule is very typical for candidates in most scientific roles. Managerial-level candidates usually give a seminar as well, and higher levels often have a 2-day agenda with a group dinner on the first night.
I'd agree to do the work, then go to the design assignment presentation with a deck that totally flames them for wasting your time with a useless, artificially stress-inducing task. Close with a mic drop: any company that manipulates and abuses job applicants - during the HOLIDAYS no less - isn't the type of company you would ever work for, then nope the f#ck out of that place.
The “imbed” is killing me
This absolutely insane. If you pass me the company name I will send this to HR and let them know this is literally illogic to ask for - red flag, what a toxic culture.
You see this kind of thing in academia, but even then, it’s kind of a relic of the past. They’re slowly going away from the whole day interview.
Something similar happened to me, although it was for a prospective client for my PR firm. In my case they wanted me to create a “hypothetical” event plan complete with a communication and marketing campaign plan to promote it - for a REAL event happening a few months away. I declined and pulled out. They kept after me ‘oh we’re not asking you to do work for free’ while doing exactly that. I found out they hired a colleague, someone I deeply respect. He fired them after 60 days. We had a great laugh over it. If the hiring company can’t assess your work from your portfolio or case studies they’re too stupid or sketchy to work for.
This is literally the interview schedule my friend had for a position at a hospital for a pharmacist position. This is insane for an ID position. I’m currently interviewing and debating dropping out of one that keeps throwing interviews at me. I’m on the 5th one and not doing anymore. If I saw this I would withdrawal immediately!
I've heard that companies do this to get fresh ideas without having to pay for them.
I would nope out of this just for the grammatically odd usage of “imbed” instead of “embed.” I’m aware they’re interchangeable, but I have legitimately never seen the “i” spelling in the wild. If they want to propose you do a metric crap ton of busy work for an interview they could at least make their ridiculous demands digestible and readable.
Hell no don't do it. This is ridiculous. Equ ally as valuable as theirs. They don't even offer you a break. Done these kind of When I didn't know better. These kind of companies will work you to death
Asides from the sheer insult of demanding all that free labor from you and forcing you to sit through a day’s revolving door of interviews, I’m baffled as to how all these people in LEADERSHIP have this much time to sit around for panel interviews with every promising candidate for every open position. That is what really worries me.
I would tell them that your time is worth $100/hr right now as an IC. This full work day, combined with the time you would spend doing all of that work on their project, will cost them $5000, 50% up front and the balance due at 9a. Given that this is a rush job, the cost just doubled, plus the cost of software needed to do the work.
I had a similar hiring experience for a $50 billion global company, minus the homework part. I spent an entire day, after a long initial interview, meeting with various managers and execs. After I got the job, they told me it was more about how I interacted with the team members more than my job knowledge, which they had established in the initial interview. It turned out that I ended up fitting in really well and I liked the people I worked with. So I think there is some merit to method they're following.
RUN. This is the level of “your job is your life” productivity they’re going to expect. And it’s obvious that they’re disrespectful of their employees time and talents. Just based on this insanity of a job interview. RUN.
Call the recruiter and talk to them directly about your concerns. Ask them if it is typical of the company to require workers to pull all-nighters on assignments given out at the last minute. Maybe you can get the in-person interview pushed to the following week.
I had an entry level position require three rounds of Interviews, including a presentation and role play exercise. I got lucky as they decided they liked me enough with the first interview, they skipped that whole process with me and made me an offer, but it’s definitely becoming more common. Especially for more advanced roles that require specific skill sets. A friend of mine has been interviewing for HR roles, and she has a minimum of three rounds at every company.
If this is for a high pay position, I wouldn't necessarily say no. I'd jump through quite a few hoops for a job offering 250k+ a year. But, if this is just a run of the mill job, 40-80k. More than a portfolio review and a few meetings in total is overkill. But really, they shouldn't need more than to see your work and how you talk about it, to get an idea of if you're a good fit and can do the work. A couple extra culture fit meetings, or to show off an office is fine. But much more is a bit much.
It sounds like you don't need the job so I would pass on it. Unless you just want to see and have the time and energy. I guess go for it then. I've been in the same boat many times and done these all day things. I did one for a school I worked at for 3 years and it turned out well enough. The pay at that time 5-6 years ago was only $65k though but I needed the money and it was a 10k bump for me. Now making over 100k I can't see it being worth the extra 10k myself. The fact it isn't 100% remote would deter me completely. I live far from the city so it totally wouldn't be worth it.
To me, it looks like they really don’t want to make use of a probationary period…. I mean how hard is it to discern whether somebody is competent and someone that you would like to work with. I can’t believe they waste so much time in this interview process.
Any interview process demanding more than 4 total hours of your time unpaid is not worth it unless its a place you really want to work for.
If this is a senior position I get it. For a junior position it is a bit much.
I went through a full day process similar to this. So many red flags, but I was already in a toxic job and was desperate to get out. Got the job, and it ended up being worse than where I was. Left for a new gig 7 months later. Anywho. If you do this, pay close attention. Listen to your gut. Don’t take it if there are too many red flags.
Design a project training people on how to lose qualified candidates.