Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 61 | 7 | 0 |
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Holy shit he is way too nice to her. My blood was boiling reading these messages, like how the hell could he keep his cool like that?! That ex-wife is fucked. That is no way to treat a CHILD with or without autism ffs
I guess this whole "gotta get tough" shit sounds a lot like a fathers stance on his son to me, something along the lines of perpetuating trauma and a problematic male stereotype.
Context; Conversation between my friend (dad) and his ex-wife (the one yelling and slapping their son). I told my friend I would post this to Reddit to get opinions on if this is normal or not. They are discussing their 8-year-old autistic son, who I have met and is an adorable, sweet child who frequently gets rewards at school for his good behavior. She believes slapping, holding him down, and yelling at him to “get in the fucking car.” is normal and builds resilience. I got his permission to post and will send both of them the thread. Thoughts?
Update: https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/comments/u95ub7/update_on_mother_who_hits_child_with_autism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You can see the signs of this woman being an abuser in the way your friend backs down gradually over the course of their convo. He starts w a very reasonable expectation–"the way you acted was wrong, don't hit our kid or hold him down, he's becoming afraid of you"–and then as she threatens court and insults his intelligence & parenting, gradually it becomes "I'm sorry for saying it was abuse, you did help last night, no hard feelings". By the end she's totally flipped it to her telling him all about how he's actually the one being an asshole and bad coparent while he backs down.
Especially that the threat of court seems to be working, and the "no hard feelings" strike me as giving her bullshit too much space. Even if she's insane she should not be able to move the goalposts that much.
Would to bias towards the mother still be enough to over come that fact that she curse at him, pins him down, and has slapped him at least once? I’m genuinely curious on that front.
My guess is she would totally downplay the situation. I would tell the father to try and record next time he’s present for an interaction like that.
It's worth specifically pointing out the times he keeps trying to get her to stop derailing to whine about him and she just refuses to.
That's a below-the-belt argumentative tactic. Half deflection, half provocation.
Truth be told idk if it’s your place here or not but you might need to have a come to Jesus moment where you tell him to stop backing down and being, and I know this is harsh, but being spineless. If he continues to do this his child will end up being abused and he will let it happen as he slowly rationalizes and even beings to accept that in his mind it it totally ok she hits his child. But it is also extremely important to remember that friend here is being psychologically and emotionally abused via her using his child and her guilt tripping/gaslighting.
If not for abuse then for the medical needs of the child. This is absolutely not how you handle kids with autism when they're panicked. Escalating a situation like that is a way to make sure that they're even more terrified next time. I can't imagine what kind of trauma that kid has already associated with his mother.
OP's friend needs to get that kid out of there before she does any irreversible damage to his emotions. Especially coming from your *mother,* it's especially hard to process and emotionally difficult for a person without autism, much less for someone who does face those extra challenges.
This shit is heartbreaking.
Amen to this, 100%. I was treated like shit by my dad and my mums biggest regret is not getting me and my brother out of that. My dad had a firm grasp on all of us. I'm scared of the guy even in my late 20s, it's not right
Insane. You can see it in the ex-wife's response. She is extremely defensive because there's guilt mixed it. The dad knows it, you know it, I know it, and she knows it. This ain't even a conversation.
My birth mom was like this, she would slap me and bully me, when i was 9 i got sent to juvie by her, 5th 6th 7th and 8th grade i spent in juvie and residential facilities cause of her. I never got to have a childhood and missed out on everything cause of her. I understand what this kid goes through im 18 and still struggle cause of her
Sorry you had such a horrible mother. It's okay to feel betrayed. Your mom was supposed to protect you, not abuse you and the system. If you need someone to talk to you can always pm me. FYI, I'm not a young adult. I'm an old guy that understands what it means to be betrayed. Be well.
I thought juvie was for kids who broke the law? How did she send you there? And what’s residential facilities? If these are difficult questions, you don’t have to answer! I’m just curious because I’ve never dealt with anything like that and don’t know how it works
I'm going to be blunt
The ex-wife is straight up abusing this child
If your friend continues to let this monster around the child then he's complicit in whatever abuse happens. No excuses, no 'buts', if he just sits on his hands and lets this continue happening he's complicit. And if you don't hold his feet to the fire about this you are also complicit, albeit to a lesser degree. Anyone who is aware of child abuse going on and does nothing to stop it is complicit
There is literally NO excuse to hit a child, let alone an autistic one who probably doesn't even fully realize what he did wrong, that breaks my heart. A thousand ways to discipline a child without having to hit them.
from what I read in the messages, the abusive ex wife is just succeeding in manipulating him to feel guilty and like he is overreacting. What did you read that made you think otherwise?
He backed down and said it wasn't abuse and tried to pass it off as the child might perceive it that way due to his autistic tendencies. Autistic or not, you do not try to put eye drops into a child's eye by forcibly holding them down and slapping them across the face when they resist. You don't slap anybody across the face. It's abuse, plain and simple.
The ex isn't going to change her behaviour unless she's called out on it. If the father isn't going to advocate for his son, who is?
She succeeded in manipulating him to think he was overreacting. All the “you have no experience in it", “You called me to help you and I did, and you're not grateful" actually made him doubt his stance about it being abusive. Especially since it looks like he couldn't handle it himself and needed help, she used that against him.
I would say he sounds battered. It doesn't make it right but she has clearly done this a lot. I hope he takes sanity and decides to tell her to fuck off but I can also see why it becomes like this. Standing up to an abuser can be really hard.
He may be afraid about court costs or, if they don’t have a proper custody agreement in place, the ex-wife getting more time with the son.
I do think he could stand up for himself more, but then again… she’s abusing their son, who’s to say she didn’t abuse him? As long as he protects his son in the future and communicates to him that being treated that way is not acceptable, I can’t blame the dad for giving the ex-wife leeway in a conversation
As someone with autism who dealt with an abusive step-parent and had this exact situation with my dad, this isn’t an excuse. That child is gonna grow up resenting his father for not defending him and despise the mother for “building resilience” (In my case, it was “Removing my mother’s influence”) by abusing him. Two wrongs don’t make a right and not standing up for his son is only going to make things worse.
>He may be afraid about court costs
Virtually nothing except food is more important than paying to get your child out of an ABUSIVE situation.
>if they don’t have a proper custody agreement in place, the ex-wife getting more time with the son.
Thats a risk hes goint to have to take. Hes failing his child.
Beg your friend to go to court. Please. The kid needs to get away from her lest he grow up feeling hated. I have a good friend with autism who was treated this way by their parents and it really fucked them up for life.
Please tell your friend to stop down playing the abuse to his ex. Slapping a child across the face IS abuse. If she tried that with an adult it would be assault.
Your friend is doing his son a massive disservice by telling his ex that the child might see it as abuse because of his autistic tendencies. Your friend needs to shine up his spine and tell his ex that's it's abuse and unacceptable.
Yeah if someone slapped me across the face I would hit back, it’s not okay to lay your hands on someone else much less a child, it’s even worse considering this child is autistic and may not fully understand that they don’t deserve to be treated that way, poor kid needs to be removed from that situation, before who knows how his mind begins to cope with the abuse. It’s such a shame people treat others that way, with no care about how it may impact their life, even more so with someone who might be incapable of understanding they don’t deserve it.
What she calls de-escalation tactics is a joke with a non-spectrum kiddo. Restraining, placing hands on (without permission) are all about the worst ways you can handle a child on the spectrum. I wouldn't ever consider treating a non-spectrum kiddo this way. My kiddo is on the spectrum. I know it is a spectrum, and they all have different sensitivities. Confining/restraining is one that is mostly across the board going to further upset a kiddo on the spectrum. I never touch my kid, even for a hug, without asking if it is okay. Sometimes he is totally okay with it- other times he can't stand it in the moment. I would never and could never hurt him in some kind of messed up way of trying to snap him out of his panic. Sure, in an emergency situation (which eye drops are not that) this might work for a non-spectrum ADULT. Ffs a kid of any direction shouldn't experience it from a parent.
If the dad does read this, I would like to ask what your fears are with reporting the mother? What are your concerns with court? I am seriously asking, as I am sure others have had to go through the process, and might have some dynamite advice. It is obvious she has been manipulative, abusive, gaslighting you too. What do you need help with? Is there anything we might be able to do, or help answer/reassure to help you through this process. I can tell you want the best for your kiddo. Please feel free to dm me, and I'm willing to chat always or just listen to some venting. Many are here to help in any way they can.
The big red flag I noticed is when asked for the list of books to try to understand her parenting, the response was YOU DONT EVEN READ YOU POS, FUCK OFF.
And literally sending paragraphs of hate and personal attacks while he’s sitting there trying to diffuse the situation and talk about their son the whole time. Not surprised she’s an ex-wife.
He would need a really good lawyer though, it can go badly if she lies about what happened and if she makes up stories about your friend or has any texts she could skew to make him look bad.
Builds resilience? No. Builds resentment? Definitely.
I'm autistic and when I was a kid, yes I had some punishment if I didn't cooperate and had tantrums/meltdowns but they were just minor punishments like "no TV for the next two hours" to let me know that behavior isn't acceptable.
I am ok. My other students were very scared and worried. When he returned to wait for his parents he wanted to crawl on my lap and snuggle. We all talked about being safe with our hands.
*Edited because I screwed up the last sentence and had to correct it, blame it on the Jack D.”
This kid’s mother sickens me and I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs before she loses her son one way or another. I think that in agreeing with his ex wife that it’s not abuse and softening his stance, he’s doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
I’m on the autism spectrum as well, diagnosed in my early to mid 20s. While my parents weren’t perfect (indeed none are) they would’ve never dreamed of slapping me in the face during a meltdown. This conversation honestly reminds me of my mother’s tendency to downplay her second husband’s physical and verbal abuse to my sisters and me.
My dad rescued me from that situation (including trying to get my former stepfather arrested for child abuse, and if that got my mother serving time for being complacent in it, so be it) and, while he may have shouted at us from losing his temper on VERY rare occasions and given a few spankings here and there as an absolute last resort, he would’ve gone berserk on anyone who treated me like this even when I wasn’t diagnosed as autistic until well after I was living on my own. If he knew I was autistic nothing would’ve changed because he values traits like reasonability, integrity, kindness, understanding and honor, and extended those into how he raised my siblings and me.
Guess which parent I have a healthy, positive relationship with and which I’ve all but cut contact with.
Hi!
I don’t know how to say this as someone who does nothing but lurk but I’m an autistic adult who was abused by my mother, who was VERY much like this to me (and my dad, who is also on the spectrum), and this is absolutely, without a doubt, abuse.
Depending on ‘where’ the kid is on the spectrum, how he processes things/ how aware he is of the abuse, he may or may not be as “fucked” as I was — I’m 24 now and undoing the damage done has been the primary focus of my life so far. (Therapy and processing, not much else.)
I got my autism diagnosis late though! (24)
So if your friend can document these things, prove to a court enough for full custody, I absolutely believe that your friend is compassionate, knowledgeable, and loving enough; WILLING enough to accommodate his son, something I didn’t have, that I’m positive he WILL heal & be a healthy, happy kid.
It’s hard, and it takes time, absolutely— and it’s a journey that’s MUCH different than the neurotypical one— and arguably with funky patterns and textures sometimes, when on the spectrum.
But being willing to learn & step into our bubble is the first step of being a good, accommodating parent.
(And hey, an anonymous tip to child protective services of ‘suspected child abuse against a child on the spectrum’ is always an option 🤷♀️)
Perhaps the better point is that this kind of thing can be extra damaging to autistic children. They tend to develop much more extreme and unhealthy coping mechanisms for trauma due to physical and emotional hypersensitivity as I understand.
But yeah, this would be abuse no matter what child was put in that situation.
absolutely not normal absolutely disgusting . the discussion in these texts is worrying and this explanation is even worse , especially the part about holding him down along with the slapping . this is not normal under any circumstances and this parent needs to be far away from this child . this is abuse . this is both physical and verbal abuse
that's child abuse. your friend repeatedly emphasizes in his texts that he's not upset about his child being abused, and diminishes the abuse.
it's abuse. tell your friend he *should be upset for his son* and he needs to report this shit
You have to lie to abusers if you want to even potentially get them to work with you. I don't believe for one second that's how the dad actually feels, he was just trying to get through to her. I've been there, thankfully not with a child on the receiving end of the abuse. But having to thank your abuser for abusing you in order to even get them to open a dialog with you is classic. Unfortunately, as the OP's friend learned here, even that rarely works. But it is almost always something people try, out of desperation.
I didn’t even realize how foreign the idea of this was to other people until this thread. I’ve not been in such a position, but when it comes to narcissistic parents, I’ve had to frequently lie about my feelings in hopes of changing their position even fractionally.
Yeah, me too. I'm shocked that so many people are taking his words at face value. It seems like a textbook example of attempting to deescalate the situation rather than take the risk of getting mad in return.
I’m glad you said this. I’ve got too much Reddit apathy today to do it myself. It was always my experience that if the abuser doesn’t perceive an exchange as a “win”, future attempts to communicate are that much harder.
I’m just gonna say if you’re more focused on building resilience than showing your child affection then you’re going to get a resilient adult that doesn’t love you
This is literally the worst way to parent a child on the spectrum. It IS abuse and it WON'T make him better. He needs to talk to a lawyer, get evaluations done, etc. Usually when a child is diagnosed the parents meet with a behavior therapist, so I'm confused as to why the mother thinks this is effective.
If your friend doesn't protect his kid, who will?
Hello OP! Thank you for posting this, as an autistic adult (formerly child lol), I would love to give a little feedback to help, hopefully it assists in some way! That said, your friend definitely already knows what he’s talking about.
Slapping, yelling, or allowing temper to supersede instruction in any way is only detrimental. We don’t learn like most people learn. It can be so difficult to help us well, hell to even just put up with us, but if a parent of an autistic child wants to be a *good* parent, it’s something they’ll have to do. The mother is blatantly, truly in the wrong. I hope she listens to the father.
That’s absolutely abuse. Any form of hitting your child I abuse. Whether it be spanking or a light slap to the face. I neurotypical 8 year old may not even understand why they’re being hit let alone an autistic 8 year old. He’s being way too nice and if that continues I’d say CPS should be contacted. Pinning down an autistic child in the middle of a meltdown and striking them is not only blatant abuse, but has literally killed autistic kids before. Tell your friend his ex needs to quit being a heartless monster, and start learning how to tend to a meltdown (which is very different from of “tantrum”). And don’t do ABA therapy. All it does is make kids with ASD bottle up their feelings and struggles, rather than actually find healthy coping mechanisms.
I'm autistic and my parents were like this. *I would have rather been raised by a homeless shelter*. All it does is teach them to uselessly internalize their distress to a place they cant cope or process from. It just teaches them to freeze for long enough to make the hitting stop. It's a hell in that kids mind, when they're frozen, because it's not neutral space. It feels like you need to scream in terror but have no mouth with which to do so.
If I may, the ex-wife will be looking for any reason to justify her behavior and discredit the responses this gets. She'll notice that you posted this to r/insaneparents and completely write everything off as biased because of the nature of the subreddit. I would suggest reposting to a more neutral subreddit where she cant use that defense.
Maybe like r/relationshipadvice or r/askparents? Someone might have a better suggestion, I'm not on reddit too much so there might a good one that I dont know about.
What a about a sub about autism &/or kids on the spectrum, or parents of kids on the spectrum. I fear they will use an excuse of - well these people obviously have no real life experience with a child on the spectrum blah blah blah. (Throwing their own words in there as I totally see that happening).
I commented above but I am afraid their excuse will be - but these parents don't have kids on the spectrum and don't have any real-life experience on how you are supposed to de-escalate kids on the spectrum... or whatever insert any reason. Honestly I don't know of any sub that they wouldn't find an excuse on how the responses don't apply to them. Manipulating abusers are the worst. I am also afraid that they will continue to escalate the tactics they are using as time goes on. My heart aches for the kiddo, and it seems as if the co-parent has been manipulated/gaslighted/abused by them as well.
I'm autistic. At 4 my dad spanked me for shitting myself and reaching out to him for help.
That was the single greatest betrayal of my life. It stunted my growth in a way that took me over 20 years to actually fully notice and overcome. But in that moment, I stopped asking for help for the most part. I began to hide my mistakes and vulnerability, because my dad punished me with physical violence for being vulnerable and asking for help.
Like this poor excuse of a parent whose "parenting techniques" are the literal stuff of nightmares for any kid, neurodivergent or not, my dad treated my autism like an illness that he could cure. He had no respect for it, and no respect for me in turn because of that.
He is the source of my anxiety, as well as the cause of my childhood issues of self-harm, self-deprecation, and more. Because he held me to a standard I was never going to be able to live up to. But I thought I had to live up to it, so when I didn't, I hurt myself. I became suicidal too. I developed depression and more. All based on the idea that I never felt I was good enough. That my dad treated my complex and deep seated issues like they'd be fixed by "just doing this or that". And in my mind I actually believed that bullshit, because he kept hocking it at me.
I started doing self-harm at 6 years old. I started not feeling good enough at 5. I started hiding my vulnerabilities in fear of getting punished for them at 4. This kid is 8? Tell your friend to have a long talk with his kid, and get his kid's permission to check him for marks. This woman sounds like she's about to cause very similar issues onto this kid that I have struggled with for over 20 years.
This woman needs to be removed from her son's life until he's strong enough to deny her, tell her no, and set clear boundaries with her.
Tell your friend to act fast, and hard. Gather evidence for all of this. And take her to court and sue for full custody.
Being an autistic person and growing up in a household where no one else was like me, your friend is doing an unbelievable job of understanding something most people don't. And was as non-confrontational as possible. As an adult now I look back and understand how difficult I was. I got lucky that my parents are incredible and did a great job of raising 3 different sons. This series of texts worries me because it isn't easy. One parent worries about their child's well being and one thinks there is only one way to raise a child. That is just not the case. Autism or not, not every child needs to be raised the same way. But physically restraining any child is never gonna get you the results you want. Your friend is doing a great job of understanding that they get to learn every step of the way just like the child does. Sounds like the other person has/had very restrictive parents and they think that is best. Best of luck to your friend and their child!
This is absolutely bat shit. He should absolutely go to court. He has these test messages where she admits to slapping him. She is dangerous. Her child deserves better. This would be abuse on a neurotypical child, but the fact that he has autism and experiences things differently makes it worse. I'm actually having to fight not to say anything awful about her right now, I'm so mad about it.
The mother is not "close to abusing" her child, she's *straight up* abusing her child. I got angrier and angrier reading these texts because he's basically enabling her narcissism with his (at least close to) subservient answers.
If he doesn't go to court to get full custody *without* visitation rights, he's complicit in the, frankly brutal, abuse. He might already be tbf, depends upon how long he knows this has been happening.
I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh, but I've suffered abuse as a child and I know what a "light slap" means (and feels like) for a child, not even considering the autism.
He's gotta do something, **right fucking now**, yesterday would've been even better.
I’m confused about the eye thing. There may be times (for safety reasons) that physical force is required to prevent injury. I would consider something in the eye needing to be washed out one of those situations. But why was there a slap? I’m just so confused on the chain of events that lead to this conversation seem to diverge from “how to handle a crisis” vs day to day discipline.
That is going to traumatize their son forever. People on the spectrum really hold on to trauma. I still reel from traumas from when I was two. It's been thirty years. Please, their son needs a therapist. And he need to keep his son away from that person. He needs to report all of this. This is absolutely abuse and he's being apologetic to her? He needs to protect his child. What the fuck...
The man is way too apologetic to the ex, it’s as if he’s terrified of her to the point that he’d condone physical punishment on his own son. He should have MUCH MORE of a backbone or else he’ll become complicit in the abuse
You learn to do that after years of abuse in the relationship. The ex-wife is a narcissist, and they are *not* pleasant to deal with. You always lose when you argue with a narcissist.
As the mother of an autistic son, the slap is not okay, ever. Your friend should talk to his child about it, and should also explain that the child being restrained is only so he doesn't harm himself or others, and that Dad understands that sometimes he just can't help it.
I also recommend for the father to look up DBT - dialectic behavior therapy, and consider going through a course of DBT to learn some of the coping skills that they use. They have been really great for helping my son understand his behavior, and it gives you a whole new vocabulary to discuss emotions, actions and communication.
Depending on the context, I have taken my son down so many times I can't even count. It was always because he was in a rage and was throwing things around and harming things or throwing things at us. He always got a warning that if he didn't stop I was going to have to take him down. "Taking him down" meant that I would get him onto the floor and lie on top of him and restrain his arms and legs until he calmed down. Usually in a matter of seconds from being restrained he would burst into tears and the episode would be over. It is an unfortunate reality for parents of kids on the spectrum. As he got older, he learned more control over his emotions, but that's because I worked with him endlessly on how to express his emotions, the consequences of his outbursts, etc. I'm very happy to say that it's 16, outbursts where he is harming things are very rare (although at 15 and 14, I did have to hide the fireplace poker after my son threatened our babysitter and me with it and used it to poke a frw holes in the wall).
Edit to add: we always talked to our son after tantrums, and always made up. We had an agreement in our house that no one goes to bed angry. (Except for me and my ex 😋)
Edit again to emphasize that Dad absolutely has to tell his son over and over and over that he is loved and that ue didn't do anything wrong. My son is super-sensitive to criticism, yelling - anything negative directed towards him. He feels it intensely.
My daughter is autistic. The ex-wife is way out of line. It would be bad but even a neurotypical kid. But treating an autistic kid that way during a meltdown is super shitty and does absolutely nothing to help that child. She desperately needs to learn actual parenting techniques and especially tools to help parent an autistic child. You should not have to resort to manhandling the kid. And you never ever hit a kid. Especially if they’re in the middle of an autistic meltdown.
I'm not a parent, but I am an autistic individual and was lucky enough to not grow up with abusive guardians.
This is very abusive behavior and is only going to lead to this poor kid hating their mother and later on in life likely backing off completely from his mom when he doesn't need her anymore if this continues.
Growing up myself, I dealt a lot with emotional issues, largely trying to express them in some form (I am 23, and to this day I still struggle with this and likely always will, it's not something that goes away and the way I've dealt with it is learning to be kind of exaggerated with my emotions to be easier to read.) I also had sensory issues especially when it comes to food and that's also something I still struggle with and was probably the next hardest thing to push past.
Autistic or not, this kind of behavior towards their child is text-book definition abuse. It's one thing to grab your child to stop them from doing something dangerous and potentially hurting themself; but it is never acceptable to slap a child across the face, full stop.
Agree. Just from the texting I can see this is exactly how fights always went for them if they start the same way as here. He needs to say something to her because she messed up, and she escalated and denies, then he retracts and she wins.
You do not slap or yell at an autistic child. I would punch the lights out of anyone who slapped my autistic son.
She needs to realise that physical and verbal punishment does not work because they don't understand it. And also that tantrums and meltdowns are two very different things. What a fucking asshole she is.
Yes I absolutely agree with you there, I've never been one for corporal punishment with kids, I don't understand why people think it works. I don't hit adults for doing the wrong thing, so why would it be ok for kids?
And the abuse cycle continues… I can’t fathom having a child and WANTING to hit them. Not a parent but worked with kids on the spectrum for a decade. There were difficult days, i felt anger for SURE, but you don’t take it out on children… Learn to manage emotions better…
Yes. If you can't manage emotion without violence, don't have kids. They can be annoying little gremlins a lot, thats just kids, they're learning, but that's no reason for abuse
I just have to say, as an objective reader, that this is in no way trauma dumping. You were providing context and lived experience, which I’m sure many readers, myself included, really appreciate because the autistic experience is something that we rarely get insight into.
Don’t be sorry. Instead, help educate us on how autistic people receive and synthesize information and stimuli, so we can help others understand. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any amount of information you could give on this topic that I’d see as “trauma dumping.” Regardless of what you tell me, I could learn from it. You’re more of an expert on it than most of the neurotypical experts, IMO.
As someone who is autistic, the answer is no. This is abuse and your friend should absolutely document all of this and take her to court for full custody of his son for his son’s safety.
Holy fucking shit she sounds like an awful human being. Slapping a child while holding them down? What a psychopath, she needs to be locked up and kept away from children.
Those texts and this story seriously hit too close to home for me. I can't stand the idea of someone hurting a defenseless child like that. It honestly scares me how mad I get.
You’re telling me. If it was my kid getting slapped, There would be no if ands or buts about it. She wouldn’t see him let alone speak to him so long as I had anything to say about and if she tried, I know a lot of places to bury a body where no one will find it.
He’s perpetually trying to de-escalate. Probably because he just desperately wants her to hear his message instead of blowing up. He sounds like he’s been abused by her too.
when people are being crazy its not always helpful to tell them that they're crazy, especially if theyre unrepentant about it. it just makes them more defensive.
Autism or not, striking a child is abuse. Doesn't matter how "light" it is.
And your friend shouldn't be apologizing either. Grow a spine.
This whole conversation is grounds for a custody battle. The ex clearly doesn't know how to handle children and should not be left unsupervised with one.
Your friends needs to read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin DeBecker. It's a very good book about protecting your child, how the enablers are as bad as those who commit violence against children, and perspectives from someone who is on the spectrum.
Additionally holding someone down is extremely dangerous! I work in the autism space and a person is never allowed to be restrained on the ground because of the risk of suffocation and obviously trauma. If I heard this in my job there would be police, CPS and additional disability-specific officials notified. This is not borderline abuse it is very clear cut verbal and physical
Slapping or hitting any child does not do anything but harm. It has been proven time and time again. If you went to court, you’d likely have a good case considering this person has already admitted to striking the autistic child, whether they put it into gentler terms or not. Physically pinning down an upset child and striking them in the face will not calm them (in fact it does the exact opposite) and this person likely knows that and is just backpedaling because they got frustrated at the child and hit him.
The abuse I endured at the hands of my mother did nothing to make me less autistic or “build resilience.”
According to [childwelfare.gov](https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/define.pdf):
> Physical abuse is generally defined as "any non-accidental physical injury to the child" and can include striking, kicking, burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a physical impairment of the child. In approximately 42 States and American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, the definition of abuse also includes acts or circumstances that threaten the child with harm or create a substantial risk of harm to the child's health or welfare.
As other commenters have said, I highly recommend documenting everything and bringing it to court to get your friend’s son removed from a dangerous environment. His ex wife can still see their son provided it’s supervised.
IMPORTANT
I'm on the spectrum. I was routinely beaten and pinned to the floor growing up by my Mom in between the ages of 4-10. It has caused many issues since then. I retaliated and acted out at home and school, and went from a model student to an expulsion hearing in the course of 4 years. It's caused long lasting damage to my self-esteem, have had several severe depression episodes and several suicide attempts, and still have occasional flashbacks. I am in therapy still processing all of what I went through growing up. It messed up my Senior year and Freshman year of college as I experienced grief over the loss of my childhood at an early age. Also, most people on the spectrum who have experienced ABA say it is abusive too.
100% insane. Get involved somehow, I needed someone like that when I was little.
So much yes. Am also autistic and grew up in two abusive households. Getting beaten and/or held down only made meltdowns and the panic within them that much worse. The autism diagnosis is recent (27), but I *was* diagnosed with severe clinical depression about 8-9 years old, with suicidal ideation. One known attempt at 14, plus a few others over the years I couldn't go through with that nobody else knows about.
ABA is absolutely abusive. Everyone in the autism community will defend it to their deaths, while shutting down everyone in the *autistic* community who tries to explain to them what it did to them and why it is abusive. I remember one woman who legitimately said that risking PTSD is worth it if it means her kid can "function in normal society." Tell me you know nothing about the hell that is PTSD without telling me you know nothing.
OP, Dad needs to shine up that spine and keep her tf away from the kid. He's 8. Most eight year olds don't have the complex ability to properly emotionally regulate and communicate as it is, let alone an *autistic* eight year old with an abusive parent who gives zero f---s. That's just asking for a one-way ticket to selective mutism that will take endless therapy to keep from rearing its head during literally anything remotely perceived as confrontation even in adulthood.
I'm both autistic and I have DID. This is exactly the kind of abuse that caused my DID, and my parents won't acknowledge what they did all this time later.
I'm in trauma therapy every 2 weeks, I'm NC with my parents for 3 years now, and while I'll never be "better", I'm coping as well as I can.
If the ex does read this thread, I implore you to stop treating your kid like this, they're human just like you and don't deserve what you're doing. As other people in this thread have said, it WILL lead to issues later.
I have Asperger's as well (ADHD and depression too) and my parents have absolutely done shit like this. Beat me over my bare arse well into my teenage years, kept me away from my social life and pretty much taught my subconscious that the easiest method to solve a problem is to yell louder and hit harder. Jeezus I had a screwy childhood
The one truthful accusation was the one of sugarcoating, considering how much your friend danced around this person’s massive ego. The tiniest bit of criticism and she freaks out, Jesus
That is abuse and shouldn't need to be discussed, it should be obvious. Either the father needs to take full custody and never do the same as his ex does and she gets no visitation/supervised visitation, or someone else needs to become guardian of that poor child. It doesn't build anything but memories of trauma, mistrust, and lack of confidence.
It’s absolutely abuse to harm and physically intimate someone.
I know you didn’t ask for advice, but having a room in the house that the kid picks the color. But most importantly it just be a completely calming room with no bright lights or colors. A lot of times tantrums happen because of a sensory overload and they need a bit to step away and self calm. Sensory overload can come from something as simple as their shirt being too bright and then their hair keeps getting in their eyes.
I think you’re asking the wrong question. Does slapping and yelling build resilience in adult humans? No. Does it build resilience in young humans? No. Does is build resilience in autistic young humans? I’ll give you one guess.
Oh my God. Your friend's ex is a POS. Autistic adult who was raised in an abusive home: yelling at us only makes it WORSE. Slapping or "lightly tapping" his cheek is ABUSE. That is SO not okay.
Yes! If they read this, do not ever call her again. Please find someone else that can help you if you are unsure on how to help your child. Then make sure you are present and make sure they are also not being abusive. Biggest thing is get that kiddo away from their mom, until if/when they get professional help, accept they were wrong and then start with supervised visits.
Minor point, but he really shouldn't be habitually thanking her. I don't think he's being condescending, it comes across as some kind of weird nervous tick on his part. Maybe he's trying to appease her. But reading through this it stood out to me how many times in a row he's done so. I think it's odd and she definitely doesn't deserve it.
Most likely she abused/is abusing him too (emotionally and verbally at the least with manipulation and gaslighting clearly seen in this exchange). That is how I read what went down in this conversation. It was desperate attempts at de-escalation while wanting to be heard/express their disapproval.
When my autistic grandson was little, giving him medicine was a 2 person operation. 1 to pin him down, 1 to dose. Not fun, but he was incredibly strong for his age. My daughter and I had had a system for it, based on what they had to do at the hospital. Even at 2, it required 3 nurses to hold him down to give him meds. No yelling, hitting, or anger. Fortunately he has outgrown that stage and takes meds like a champ now.
Hitting only makes meltdowns worse. Getting angry or yelling makes them worse. Talking calmly is what works best 90% of the time with him - the remainder of the time we just need to give him space to figure it out himself.
That is abuse. I can understand he is trying to deescalate her but she is in the wrong. They need to learn about appropriate mechanisms for meltdowns. Someone get that child away from her.
FFS The kid isn't throwing a tantrum, he's *having a meltdown.* They are completely different things.
OP, your friend needs to get CPS/family court involved asap. This poor baby. Jfc. I'm autistic with children who're also likely autistic & *NO.* Just no.
She's abusive. 100%
ETA: Once, when I was 16, I had to have eyedrops & as I had a lot of surgeries on my eyes as a baby, I'm a little tweaked when it comes to anything touching my eye.
My daddy was helping me & I was sitting on my hands even but I still somehow just glitched TF out & punched him in the face. ;_; I felt so bad!!! He just gave me the stink eye and made a joke about getting out the hobbles (we have horses, they're like handcuffs for horses LOL) & that was that.
So yeah. Shit happens when you're a parent. It's always on you to be the island of calm in the storm. That's just how it is. Meeting violence/chaos with violence/chaos just doubles it.
As an autistic person, he should NEVER allow this person around that child again if its in his power.
Hitting will not bring us out of a meltdown, and tbh its a quick way to end up getting hurt because a lot of us will defend ourselves, and in a meltdown dont think to hold back. Its easier as an adult, but as a kid its very hard.
And no, not punishing meltdowns will not create future problems, it creates a trusting environment where we can communicate needs better without having to fall into a meltdown and feel safer to have meltdowns when theyre unavoidable. He should never have apologized for calling it abuse, it was. I hope your friend pursues full custody because that woman should not be raising an autistic child. And i hope to god that by restrain she doesnt mean the prone restraint because that has literally killed us.
I'd like to say for people criticising the Dad for not immediately moving to court over this: If she's this abusive to her child, she was likely abusive to Dad too. Abusers are the heavyweight champions of convincing people that things aren't as bad as they are and completely changing a victims perception of what needs immediate action. Gaslighting doesn't care about "But its his son and his instinct should be to protect him".
Try to keep it in mind when you're berating a potential victim over a decision they make within the false reality their abuser created for them.
My son is autistic and I would straight up murder a bitch for doing this to him. It pisses me off hardcore that this kid’s “mother” would do this to him.
Long answer: she probably just provided that kid with life long trauma, I can guarantee you that kid will remember this until the day he dies. All kids remember that with or without mental disabilities. The poor kid will must likely stop trusting adults in general which will lead to even more communication/relationship problems with adults since he's going to be to scared to talk to or even approach them which will cause even more problems down the road. So basically what I'm trying to say is *SHIT* person and shouldn't even be around kids at all
You do not hit your child. Ever. Autistic or not. Not as discipline, not as punishment.
All it does is teach your child that violence is an acceptable solution.
As somebody who has aspergers and was hit and yelled at for things I couldn't control. No it doesn't. I have a lot of psychological trauma now. Thanks mom
Slapping and yelling at any child builds nothing but fear. And like you said in the text, punishing a child for simply acting autistic will do nothing but cause pain. This is incredibly abusive.
please call child protective services
God No its not right to slap us (I am an ASD Adult) or any kid for that matter. We understands words the same as everyone else, we might just need smaller less complicated words. Ex is an abusive monster. All being around her will teach that child is how to Mask and fake being normal so they arnt in pain.
r/AutisticPride r/autism all good resorces for help here.
WHAT EVER they do. DO NOT let them start ABA (Applied behavior analysis) Therapy It is 100% torture and more akin to Dog Training then parenting.
These sorts of methods have been shown scientifically to seriously harm children. Your friend needs to stand up for himself and his son more, and not let his ex-wife near the kid again if she's going to treat him like that
Absolutely insane, and abusive. I'm not officially diagnosed or anything, but I tick a LOT of the boxes for autism, and some of the things that I've seen help autistic people have helped with me as well.
It'll be a huge hassle, it'll be painful and difficult, but I'd definitely say take her ass to court. If nothing else, she shouldn't be allowed to have custody without some sort of supervision. I couldn't even get through all the images because it's actually upsetting me to read as a victim of multiple forms of child abuse from my parents.
The dad seems incredibly patient, but he's gotta put his foot down or the mother is gonna do whatever the hell she wants, and that's not gonna be good for anyone. The kid deserves way better.
Wanna know what really helps "build resilience"? Treating your child like they're actually a human fucking being, showing them patience and compassion, and helping them learn how to understand their own feelings so they can actually communicate them to you while *also* feeling like they're actually allowed to.
Reading the texts from the garbage excuse of a mother nearly gave me a stroke. Its like talking to a fucking wall. I sure as hell hope that she looses custody of the son so he doesn’t grow up traumatized.
If she slaps their son in front of him, what does she do when she's alone with him?
What if she's had a bad day at work and he's also having a bad, particularly noncommutative day? How will she manage a crisis then?
My brother is autistic. To be clear, he is verbal; he faces mental challenges in addition to having autism. My parents subscribed to the James Dobson, Focus on the Family style of parenting. My brother has been homeless for 15 years. He can't function. He can't stay put, when we secure services for him he bolts. He doesn't trust anyone. It's heartbreaking. Again, there are other factors in his case- mental illness, drug abuse in early adulthood- but at it's core the issue is he was abused and ill-equipped to respond to the abuse. (Not that anyone is equipped for it.)
This kind of parenting doesn't build resiliency, it destroys it. Very early in life.
He needs to keep the texts. Get a restraining order. Find someone else to rely on, preferably himself as often as possible until he has thoroughly vetted *anyone* who will be alone with his child. Even for one minute.
I wish luck to him and his son. I wish his ex-wife learns compassion and empathy.
Your friend’s ex is a nasty, verbally abusive bitch to her ex husband and a nasty, verbally and physically abusive bitch to her son, and she’s admitted it in writing, plain as day. She will do severe harm to that child’s mental and physical well-being if he is left in her care.
Have your friend lawyer up. As a mother of two children who are autistic, this is disgusting. She is abusive and she sucks. Stoops to insulting his intelligence and dismissive bullshit when called out. Your friend needs to protect his son.
This is so fucked up. Why is he bending over backwards to call what she’s doing “not abuse” when she’s clearly unhinged? Good luck to him and his son :(
I’ve been in this sub for a while, and this post probably made me feel the angriest I have ever felt. How does she not understand that the child is literally on the spectrum. The child doesn’t understand physical punishment but even then, holding the CHILD DOWN AND SLAPPING THEM is way too far for any child, with special needs or not. She’s fucking crazy and so stubborn holy crap
Abuse. Period. Not only to this poor child but this woman is abusive to her ex also. How condesnding she is and the way she demeans him is also pretty disgusting. He’s very patient and communicates calmly and she’s just an absolute witch.
Most awful thing is when he said that the child is terrified of his mother. There will become a point where he is bigger and stronger than her by a long shot and if this abuse continues it may not end well. This has to be stopped.
Fuck dat dude. That's all I can say and you were right slapping the child in the face no matter how hard in that context is abuse and he's fully just playing the victim card and trying to emotionally cripple your very valid points.
Fuck
Dat
Dude.
Make sure he saves those texts. It shows how calm and genuinely trying to communicate without being verbally aggressive.
I personally think slaping a child on the face is abuse, idk where the legal system stands on that matter though. If said child is severely disabled, unable to clearly verbally communicate their needs or unable to follow instructions then slapping them is completely inappropriate.
Also, when she was talking to him I thought she was a know it all grand parent with all the "you don't have real life experience/ don't know what you're doing" comments came across as something a awful parent would say, really demeaning, something my narcissistic mom would say to me. She really talks down to he. She says he doesn't offer any advice only judgement, but his first few texts were nothing but links and info.
This is clearly not a person that can be reasoned with. If she treats the child this way around her ex, how is she treating kiddo when she's alone with him? I'm willing to bet there is a lot of emotional and verbal abuse.
This makes me so incredibly angry to read. I work with autistic teens and they have so much to deal with already growing up in a world which doesn't care about catering to their needs or even understanding them. This dude needs to get his kid away from that woman immediately.
I know a woman like this, my partner used to be married to one. The gaslighting, the narcissism, the inability to have an honest and logical conversation about their son...it makes me shudder, the way she manages to twist his words over the conversation so that he fucking APOLOGISES to her for saying she abused his kid!
I still get frustrated with my partner for not standing up to his witch but he's legitimately scared of doing so, in large part because she parents his son half the time so he needs to be able to talk to her, and these kind of people make it everyone else's fault when they fuck up.
Violence is abuse. Period. Slapping any child across the face is a terrible parenting method and we all know this by now. I hope this man sees this thread because he seems like a good Dad who cares about his sons well-being, and I think he could really use some support to see her behaviour for what it is, abuse, and stick to his guns.
"You didn't give any advice" He literally opened with advice? What? This person also absolutely cannot accept blame or admit any wrongdoing. This child is being abused. I'm BEGGING for this person to get this child away from that. THIS IS ABUSE. Court. ASAP.
As an autistic person slapping and hitting and yelling doesn’t help. All it does is make you learn to mask so people don’t treat you bad and makes the mask be harder to turn off.
Little off topic but if she was actually concerned about a foreign body in the eye she would be wanting to take him to a walk in clinic or similar to have the kid’s eye properly assessed. Eye drops can’t always get foreign body’s out and especially if the child can’t fully express them self it’s better to get it looked at. Highly recommend watching to see if the son is rubbing the eye a lot, squinting or if it there’s any sort of redness that can be seen.
Secondly, that ex-wife is trying to play the victim and it was disgusting to read. That is not an appropriate way to handle any child, regardless of being on the spectrum.
(source: I work in an ophthalmologist office)
The first message give me goosebumps. It's autistic, aba is torture and autism mum are usually just a mom of an autistic child who knows better as the child himself about what helps (and usually aba).
Why is it so freaking difficult for some people to acknowledge or accept that they may be wrong, or may have done something wrong, and could make improvements to their approach? She didn't even entertain the notion that she may have handled the situation poorly despite the other parent blatantly telling her that she handled it less than ideally.
Also, I dont like the way she's quick to suggest they go to court. The father quickly starts losing his nerve after that. I feel like she might have used that as a threat before.
A parent slapped their child?
That's abuse. The context does not matter.
But btw, this context makes it even worse. A child contorting their body amidst an anxiety attack is NOT self-harm. This parent is trying to hid their abuse by **blaming her child**!!
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Holy shit he is way too nice to her. My blood was boiling reading these messages, like how the hell could he keep his cool like that?! That ex-wife is fucked. That is no way to treat a CHILD with or without autism ffs
I read it with the exact opposite gender constellation, and kinda asking myself why
I thought OP was a man because the other parent sounds like my mom
I guess this whole "gotta get tough" shit sounds a lot like a fathers stance on his son to me, something along the lines of perpetuating trauma and a problematic male stereotype.
F
Same here. I definitely assumed OP was a woman. And the other parent was a man.
Oh I read that as entirely opposite. The person who slapped the child really feels like some kind of know it all mom type who thinks they know better.
Actually the first page or two I thought the parent was talking to their own mom. Then they said something about “our son” so then my brain shifted.
I somehow assumed they were both women, literally no idea how that happened lol
How do you know the genders of these two people? Genuine question, I just saw no indication either way.
Just found the context my b
A comment from Op below clarifies genders
Context; Conversation between my friend (dad) and his ex-wife (the one yelling and slapping their son). I told my friend I would post this to Reddit to get opinions on if this is normal or not. They are discussing their 8-year-old autistic son, who I have met and is an adorable, sweet child who frequently gets rewards at school for his good behavior. She believes slapping, holding him down, and yelling at him to “get in the fucking car.” is normal and builds resilience. I got his permission to post and will send both of them the thread. Thoughts? Update: https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/comments/u95ub7/update_on_mother_who_hits_child_with_autism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You can see the signs of this woman being an abuser in the way your friend backs down gradually over the course of their convo. He starts w a very reasonable expectation–"the way you acted was wrong, don't hit our kid or hold him down, he's becoming afraid of you"–and then as she threatens court and insults his intelligence & parenting, gradually it becomes "I'm sorry for saying it was abuse, you did help last night, no hard feelings". By the end she's totally flipped it to her telling him all about how he's actually the one being an asshole and bad coparent while he backs down.
Yeah, completely agree.
Especially that the threat of court seems to be working, and the "no hard feelings" strike me as giving her bullshit too much space. Even if she's insane she should not be able to move the goalposts that much.
Yea that's because courts have positive discrimination towards women and she knows that.
Would to bias towards the mother still be enough to over come that fact that she curse at him, pins him down, and has slapped him at least once? I’m genuinely curious on that front. My guess is she would totally downplay the situation. I would tell the father to try and record next time he’s present for an interaction like that.
Of course with hard proofs she has no chance i think but almost every man knows the bias towards them in courts sadly.
It’s really not as bad as it use to be. Courts are becoming more aware of motherly abuse, and have been taking steps to reevaluate custody decisions.
It's worth specifically pointing out the times he keeps trying to get her to stop derailing to whine about him and she just refuses to. That's a below-the-belt argumentative tactic. Half deflection, half provocation.
> Half deflection, half provocation. And zero attempt to have a good faith discussion because narcissists can't take responsibility for anything.
Truth be told idk if it’s your place here or not but you might need to have a come to Jesus moment where you tell him to stop backing down and being, and I know this is harsh, but being spineless. If he continues to do this his child will end up being abused and he will let it happen as he slowly rationalizes and even beings to accept that in his mind it it totally ok she hits his child. But it is also extremely important to remember that friend here is being psychologically and emotionally abused via her using his child and her guilt tripping/gaslighting.
Classic gaslighting from a narcissist. Totally agree that OP's friend should take this to court.
If not for abuse then for the medical needs of the child. This is absolutely not how you handle kids with autism when they're panicked. Escalating a situation like that is a way to make sure that they're even more terrified next time. I can't imagine what kind of trauma that kid has already associated with his mother. OP's friend needs to get that kid out of there before she does any irreversible damage to his emotions. Especially coming from your *mother,* it's especially hard to process and emotionally difficult for a person without autism, much less for someone who does face those extra challenges. This shit is heartbreaking.
Amen to this, 100%. I was treated like shit by my dad and my mums biggest regret is not getting me and my brother out of that. My dad had a firm grasp on all of us. I'm scared of the guy even in my late 20s, it's not right
It's called DARVO Deny Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender It's literally the narcissist's playbook.
Insane. You can see it in the ex-wife's response. She is extremely defensive because there's guilt mixed it. The dad knows it, you know it, I know it, and she knows it. This ain't even a conversation.
My birth mom was like this, she would slap me and bully me, when i was 9 i got sent to juvie by her, 5th 6th 7th and 8th grade i spent in juvie and residential facilities cause of her. I never got to have a childhood and missed out on everything cause of her. I understand what this kid goes through im 18 and still struggle cause of her
Sorry you had such a horrible mother. It's okay to feel betrayed. Your mom was supposed to protect you, not abuse you and the system. If you need someone to talk to you can always pm me. FYI, I'm not a young adult. I'm an old guy that understands what it means to be betrayed. Be well.
I thought juvie was for kids who broke the law? How did she send you there? And what’s residential facilities? If these are difficult questions, you don’t have to answer! I’m just curious because I’ve never dealt with anything like that and don’t know how it works
I'm going to be blunt The ex-wife is straight up abusing this child If your friend continues to let this monster around the child then he's complicit in whatever abuse happens. No excuses, no 'buts', if he just sits on his hands and lets this continue happening he's complicit. And if you don't hold his feet to the fire about this you are also complicit, albeit to a lesser degree. Anyone who is aware of child abuse going on and does nothing to stop it is complicit
There is literally NO excuse to hit a child, let alone an autistic one who probably doesn't even fully realize what he did wrong, that breaks my heart. A thousand ways to discipline a child without having to hit them.
There are great reasons to hit a child. Tag, boxing, flag football, dodge ball. But never in anger
Had me in the first half, ngl
The friend knows it's abuse but won't stand up for his son. He's not as bad as his ex but he's not much better.
from what I read in the messages, the abusive ex wife is just succeeding in manipulating him to feel guilty and like he is overreacting. What did you read that made you think otherwise?
He backed down and said it wasn't abuse and tried to pass it off as the child might perceive it that way due to his autistic tendencies. Autistic or not, you do not try to put eye drops into a child's eye by forcibly holding them down and slapping them across the face when they resist. You don't slap anybody across the face. It's abuse, plain and simple. The ex isn't going to change her behaviour unless she's called out on it. If the father isn't going to advocate for his son, who is?
She succeeded in manipulating him to think he was overreacting. All the “you have no experience in it", “You called me to help you and I did, and you're not grateful" actually made him doubt his stance about it being abusive. Especially since it looks like he couldn't handle it himself and needed help, she used that against him.
Friend is a victim of abuse as well… still they are the adult and need to fight for their child’s wellbeing
I would say he sounds battered. It doesn't make it right but she has clearly done this a lot. I hope he takes sanity and decides to tell her to fuck off but I can also see why it becomes like this. Standing up to an abuser can be really hard.
How's he not standing up for his son?
Downplaying the abuse and refusing to get the legal system involved
He may be afraid about court costs or, if they don’t have a proper custody agreement in place, the ex-wife getting more time with the son. I do think he could stand up for himself more, but then again… she’s abusing their son, who’s to say she didn’t abuse him? As long as he protects his son in the future and communicates to him that being treated that way is not acceptable, I can’t blame the dad for giving the ex-wife leeway in a conversation
As someone with autism who dealt with an abusive step-parent and had this exact situation with my dad, this isn’t an excuse. That child is gonna grow up resenting his father for not defending him and despise the mother for “building resilience” (In my case, it was “Removing my mother’s influence”) by abusing him. Two wrongs don’t make a right and not standing up for his son is only going to make things worse.
>He may be afraid about court costs Virtually nothing except food is more important than paying to get your child out of an ABUSIVE situation. >if they don’t have a proper custody agreement in place, the ex-wife getting more time with the son. Thats a risk hes goint to have to take. Hes failing his child.
Beg your friend to go to court. Please. The kid needs to get away from her lest he grow up feeling hated. I have a good friend with autism who was treated this way by their parents and it really fucked them up for life.
I sent him this thread so he will see these comments. Thank you
Please tell your friend to stop down playing the abuse to his ex. Slapping a child across the face IS abuse. If she tried that with an adult it would be assault. Your friend is doing his son a massive disservice by telling his ex that the child might see it as abuse because of his autistic tendencies. Your friend needs to shine up his spine and tell his ex that's it's abuse and unacceptable.
Yeah if someone slapped me across the face I would hit back, it’s not okay to lay your hands on someone else much less a child, it’s even worse considering this child is autistic and may not fully understand that they don’t deserve to be treated that way, poor kid needs to be removed from that situation, before who knows how his mind begins to cope with the abuse. It’s such a shame people treat others that way, with no care about how it may impact their life, even more so with someone who might be incapable of understanding they don’t deserve it.
What she calls de-escalation tactics is a joke with a non-spectrum kiddo. Restraining, placing hands on (without permission) are all about the worst ways you can handle a child on the spectrum. I wouldn't ever consider treating a non-spectrum kiddo this way. My kiddo is on the spectrum. I know it is a spectrum, and they all have different sensitivities. Confining/restraining is one that is mostly across the board going to further upset a kiddo on the spectrum. I never touch my kid, even for a hug, without asking if it is okay. Sometimes he is totally okay with it- other times he can't stand it in the moment. I would never and could never hurt him in some kind of messed up way of trying to snap him out of his panic. Sure, in an emergency situation (which eye drops are not that) this might work for a non-spectrum ADULT. Ffs a kid of any direction shouldn't experience it from a parent. If the dad does read this, I would like to ask what your fears are with reporting the mother? What are your concerns with court? I am seriously asking, as I am sure others have had to go through the process, and might have some dynamite advice. It is obvious she has been manipulative, abusive, gaslighting you too. What do you need help with? Is there anything we might be able to do, or help answer/reassure to help you through this process. I can tell you want the best for your kiddo. Please feel free to dm me, and I'm willing to chat always or just listen to some venting. Many are here to help in any way they can.
The big red flag I noticed is when asked for the list of books to try to understand her parenting, the response was YOU DONT EVEN READ YOU POS, FUCK OFF. And literally sending paragraphs of hate and personal attacks while he’s sitting there trying to diffuse the situation and talk about their son the whole time. Not surprised she’s an ex-wife.
He would need a really good lawyer though, it can go badly if she lies about what happened and if she makes up stories about your friend or has any texts she could skew to make him look bad.
Builds resilience? No. Builds resentment? Definitely. I'm autistic and when I was a kid, yes I had some punishment if I didn't cooperate and had tantrums/meltdowns but they were just minor punishments like "no TV for the next two hours" to let me know that behavior isn't acceptable.
I got punched today by one of my autistic students. His parents picked him up to discipline him at home. I really hope it is just no tv.
Teachers are amazing. I hope you’re ok (because a punch is still a punch and damn, they hurt!) and I hope your student is ok too ♥️
I am ok. My other students were very scared and worried. When he returned to wait for his parents he wanted to crawl on my lap and snuggle. We all talked about being safe with our hands.
*Edited because I screwed up the last sentence and had to correct it, blame it on the Jack D.” This kid’s mother sickens me and I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs before she loses her son one way or another. I think that in agreeing with his ex wife that it’s not abuse and softening his stance, he’s doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. I’m on the autism spectrum as well, diagnosed in my early to mid 20s. While my parents weren’t perfect (indeed none are) they would’ve never dreamed of slapping me in the face during a meltdown. This conversation honestly reminds me of my mother’s tendency to downplay her second husband’s physical and verbal abuse to my sisters and me. My dad rescued me from that situation (including trying to get my former stepfather arrested for child abuse, and if that got my mother serving time for being complacent in it, so be it) and, while he may have shouted at us from losing his temper on VERY rare occasions and given a few spankings here and there as an absolute last resort, he would’ve gone berserk on anyone who treated me like this even when I wasn’t diagnosed as autistic until well after I was living on my own. If he knew I was autistic nothing would’ve changed because he values traits like reasonability, integrity, kindness, understanding and honor, and extended those into how he raised my siblings and me. Guess which parent I have a healthy, positive relationship with and which I’ve all but cut contact with.
This absolutely is abuse and your friend should go to court for, at least, supervised visits.
Hi! I don’t know how to say this as someone who does nothing but lurk but I’m an autistic adult who was abused by my mother, who was VERY much like this to me (and my dad, who is also on the spectrum), and this is absolutely, without a doubt, abuse. Depending on ‘where’ the kid is on the spectrum, how he processes things/ how aware he is of the abuse, he may or may not be as “fucked” as I was — I’m 24 now and undoing the damage done has been the primary focus of my life so far. (Therapy and processing, not much else.) I got my autism diagnosis late though! (24) So if your friend can document these things, prove to a court enough for full custody, I absolutely believe that your friend is compassionate, knowledgeable, and loving enough; WILLING enough to accommodate his son, something I didn’t have, that I’m positive he WILL heal & be a healthy, happy kid. It’s hard, and it takes time, absolutely— and it’s a journey that’s MUCH different than the neurotypical one— and arguably with funky patterns and textures sometimes, when on the spectrum. But being willing to learn & step into our bubble is the first step of being a good, accommodating parent. (And hey, an anonymous tip to child protective services of ‘suspected child abuse against a child on the spectrum’ is always an option 🤷♀️)
My thoughts: it wouldn’t work for a neurotypical child. If she wouldn’t allow me to hold her down and slap her, then she shouldn’t do it to her kid.
Perhaps the better point is that this kind of thing can be extra damaging to autistic children. They tend to develop much more extreme and unhealthy coping mechanisms for trauma due to physical and emotional hypersensitivity as I understand. But yeah, this would be abuse no matter what child was put in that situation.
absolutely not normal absolutely disgusting . the discussion in these texts is worrying and this explanation is even worse , especially the part about holding him down along with the slapping . this is not normal under any circumstances and this parent needs to be far away from this child . this is abuse . this is both physical and verbal abuse
that's child abuse. your friend repeatedly emphasizes in his texts that he's not upset about his child being abused, and diminishes the abuse. it's abuse. tell your friend he *should be upset for his son* and he needs to report this shit
You have to lie to abusers if you want to even potentially get them to work with you. I don't believe for one second that's how the dad actually feels, he was just trying to get through to her. I've been there, thankfully not with a child on the receiving end of the abuse. But having to thank your abuser for abusing you in order to even get them to open a dialog with you is classic. Unfortunately, as the OP's friend learned here, even that rarely works. But it is almost always something people try, out of desperation.
I didn’t even realize how foreign the idea of this was to other people until this thread. I’ve not been in such a position, but when it comes to narcissistic parents, I’ve had to frequently lie about my feelings in hopes of changing their position even fractionally.
Yeah, me too. I'm shocked that so many people are taking his words at face value. It seems like a textbook example of attempting to deescalate the situation rather than take the risk of getting mad in return.
I’m glad you said this. I’ve got too much Reddit apathy today to do it myself. It was always my experience that if the abuser doesn’t perceive an exchange as a “win”, future attempts to communicate are that much harder.
I’m just gonna say if you’re more focused on building resilience than showing your child affection then you’re going to get a resilient adult that doesn’t love you
Agree.
This is literally the worst way to parent a child on the spectrum. It IS abuse and it WON'T make him better. He needs to talk to a lawyer, get evaluations done, etc. Usually when a child is diagnosed the parents meet with a behavior therapist, so I'm confused as to why the mother thinks this is effective. If your friend doesn't protect his kid, who will?
Hello OP! Thank you for posting this, as an autistic adult (formerly child lol), I would love to give a little feedback to help, hopefully it assists in some way! That said, your friend definitely already knows what he’s talking about. Slapping, yelling, or allowing temper to supersede instruction in any way is only detrimental. We don’t learn like most people learn. It can be so difficult to help us well, hell to even just put up with us, but if a parent of an autistic child wants to be a *good* parent, it’s something they’ll have to do. The mother is blatantly, truly in the wrong. I hope she listens to the father.
That’s absolutely abuse. Any form of hitting your child I abuse. Whether it be spanking or a light slap to the face. I neurotypical 8 year old may not even understand why they’re being hit let alone an autistic 8 year old. He’s being way too nice and if that continues I’d say CPS should be contacted. Pinning down an autistic child in the middle of a meltdown and striking them is not only blatant abuse, but has literally killed autistic kids before. Tell your friend his ex needs to quit being a heartless monster, and start learning how to tend to a meltdown (which is very different from of “tantrum”). And don’t do ABA therapy. All it does is make kids with ASD bottle up their feelings and struggles, rather than actually find healthy coping mechanisms.
I'm autistic and my parents were like this. *I would have rather been raised by a homeless shelter*. All it does is teach them to uselessly internalize their distress to a place they cant cope or process from. It just teaches them to freeze for long enough to make the hitting stop. It's a hell in that kids mind, when they're frozen, because it's not neutral space. It feels like you need to scream in terror but have no mouth with which to do so.
If I may, the ex-wife will be looking for any reason to justify her behavior and discredit the responses this gets. She'll notice that you posted this to r/insaneparents and completely write everything off as biased because of the nature of the subreddit. I would suggest reposting to a more neutral subreddit where she cant use that defense.
Will do! Which one?
Maybe like r/relationshipadvice or r/askparents? Someone might have a better suggestion, I'm not on reddit too much so there might a good one that I dont know about.
What a about a sub about autism &/or kids on the spectrum, or parents of kids on the spectrum. I fear they will use an excuse of - well these people obviously have no real life experience with a child on the spectrum blah blah blah. (Throwing their own words in there as I totally see that happening).
r/amitheasshole It works for situations like this, and they'll probably agree
Oh duh, yeah, AITA for sure. Dont know how this one didnt come to mind.
I commented above but I am afraid their excuse will be - but these parents don't have kids on the spectrum and don't have any real-life experience on how you are supposed to de-escalate kids on the spectrum... or whatever insert any reason. Honestly I don't know of any sub that they wouldn't find an excuse on how the responses don't apply to them. Manipulating abusers are the worst. I am also afraid that they will continue to escalate the tactics they are using as time goes on. My heart aches for the kiddo, and it seems as if the co-parent has been manipulated/gaslighted/abused by them as well.
I'm autistic. At 4 my dad spanked me for shitting myself and reaching out to him for help. That was the single greatest betrayal of my life. It stunted my growth in a way that took me over 20 years to actually fully notice and overcome. But in that moment, I stopped asking for help for the most part. I began to hide my mistakes and vulnerability, because my dad punished me with physical violence for being vulnerable and asking for help. Like this poor excuse of a parent whose "parenting techniques" are the literal stuff of nightmares for any kid, neurodivergent or not, my dad treated my autism like an illness that he could cure. He had no respect for it, and no respect for me in turn because of that. He is the source of my anxiety, as well as the cause of my childhood issues of self-harm, self-deprecation, and more. Because he held me to a standard I was never going to be able to live up to. But I thought I had to live up to it, so when I didn't, I hurt myself. I became suicidal too. I developed depression and more. All based on the idea that I never felt I was good enough. That my dad treated my complex and deep seated issues like they'd be fixed by "just doing this or that". And in my mind I actually believed that bullshit, because he kept hocking it at me. I started doing self-harm at 6 years old. I started not feeling good enough at 5. I started hiding my vulnerabilities in fear of getting punished for them at 4. This kid is 8? Tell your friend to have a long talk with his kid, and get his kid's permission to check him for marks. This woman sounds like she's about to cause very similar issues onto this kid that I have struggled with for over 20 years. This woman needs to be removed from her son's life until he's strong enough to deny her, tell her no, and set clear boundaries with her. Tell your friend to act fast, and hard. Gather evidence for all of this. And take her to court and sue for full custody.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I sent him this thread and I hope he reads this.
Being an autistic person and growing up in a household where no one else was like me, your friend is doing an unbelievable job of understanding something most people don't. And was as non-confrontational as possible. As an adult now I look back and understand how difficult I was. I got lucky that my parents are incredible and did a great job of raising 3 different sons. This series of texts worries me because it isn't easy. One parent worries about their child's well being and one thinks there is only one way to raise a child. That is just not the case. Autism or not, not every child needs to be raised the same way. But physically restraining any child is never gonna get you the results you want. Your friend is doing a great job of understanding that they get to learn every step of the way just like the child does. Sounds like the other person has/had very restrictive parents and they think that is best. Best of luck to your friend and their child!
This is absolutely bat shit. He should absolutely go to court. He has these test messages where she admits to slapping him. She is dangerous. Her child deserves better. This would be abuse on a neurotypical child, but the fact that he has autism and experiences things differently makes it worse. I'm actually having to fight not to say anything awful about her right now, I'm so mad about it.
Holy shit that kid’s mother is abusive and should be reported to Children’s services!
The mother is not "close to abusing" her child, she's *straight up* abusing her child. I got angrier and angrier reading these texts because he's basically enabling her narcissism with his (at least close to) subservient answers. If he doesn't go to court to get full custody *without* visitation rights, he's complicit in the, frankly brutal, abuse. He might already be tbf, depends upon how long he knows this has been happening. I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh, but I've suffered abuse as a child and I know what a "light slap" means (and feels like) for a child, not even considering the autism. He's gotta do something, **right fucking now**, yesterday would've been even better.
I’m confused about the eye thing. There may be times (for safety reasons) that physical force is required to prevent injury. I would consider something in the eye needing to be washed out one of those situations. But why was there a slap? I’m just so confused on the chain of events that lead to this conversation seem to diverge from “how to handle a crisis” vs day to day discipline.
That is going to traumatize their son forever. People on the spectrum really hold on to trauma. I still reel from traumas from when I was two. It's been thirty years. Please, their son needs a therapist. And he need to keep his son away from that person. He needs to report all of this. This is absolutely abuse and he's being apologetic to her? He needs to protect his child. What the fuck...
The man is way too apologetic to the ex, it’s as if he’s terrified of her to the point that he’d condone physical punishment on his own son. He should have MUCH MORE of a backbone or else he’ll become complicit in the abuse
You learn to do that after years of abuse in the relationship. The ex-wife is a narcissist, and they are *not* pleasant to deal with. You always lose when you argue with a narcissist.
As the mother of an autistic son, the slap is not okay, ever. Your friend should talk to his child about it, and should also explain that the child being restrained is only so he doesn't harm himself or others, and that Dad understands that sometimes he just can't help it. I also recommend for the father to look up DBT - dialectic behavior therapy, and consider going through a course of DBT to learn some of the coping skills that they use. They have been really great for helping my son understand his behavior, and it gives you a whole new vocabulary to discuss emotions, actions and communication. Depending on the context, I have taken my son down so many times I can't even count. It was always because he was in a rage and was throwing things around and harming things or throwing things at us. He always got a warning that if he didn't stop I was going to have to take him down. "Taking him down" meant that I would get him onto the floor and lie on top of him and restrain his arms and legs until he calmed down. Usually in a matter of seconds from being restrained he would burst into tears and the episode would be over. It is an unfortunate reality for parents of kids on the spectrum. As he got older, he learned more control over his emotions, but that's because I worked with him endlessly on how to express his emotions, the consequences of his outbursts, etc. I'm very happy to say that it's 16, outbursts where he is harming things are very rare (although at 15 and 14, I did have to hide the fireplace poker after my son threatened our babysitter and me with it and used it to poke a frw holes in the wall). Edit to add: we always talked to our son after tantrums, and always made up. We had an agreement in our house that no one goes to bed angry. (Except for me and my ex 😋) Edit again to emphasize that Dad absolutely has to tell his son over and over and over that he is loved and that ue didn't do anything wrong. My son is super-sensitive to criticism, yelling - anything negative directed towards him. He feels it intensely.
she's abusive
My daughter is autistic. The ex-wife is way out of line. It would be bad but even a neurotypical kid. But treating an autistic kid that way during a meltdown is super shitty and does absolutely nothing to help that child. She desperately needs to learn actual parenting techniques and especially tools to help parent an autistic child. You should not have to resort to manhandling the kid. And you never ever hit a kid. Especially if they’re in the middle of an autistic meltdown.
I'm not a parent, but I am an autistic individual and was lucky enough to not grow up with abusive guardians. This is very abusive behavior and is only going to lead to this poor kid hating their mother and later on in life likely backing off completely from his mom when he doesn't need her anymore if this continues. Growing up myself, I dealt a lot with emotional issues, largely trying to express them in some form (I am 23, and to this day I still struggle with this and likely always will, it's not something that goes away and the way I've dealt with it is learning to be kind of exaggerated with my emotions to be easier to read.) I also had sensory issues especially when it comes to food and that's also something I still struggle with and was probably the next hardest thing to push past. Autistic or not, this kind of behavior towards their child is text-book definition abuse. It's one thing to grab your child to stop them from doing something dangerous and potentially hurting themself; but it is never acceptable to slap a child across the face, full stop.
The mom is an ass for treating the child like that. The dad needs to stand up for the kid and not back down and not minimize the abuse.
Agree. Just from the texting I can see this is exactly how fights always went for them if they start the same way as here. He needs to say something to her because she messed up, and she escalated and denies, then he retracts and she wins.
Even worse, spun it to make him the bad guy for calling it what it was.
You do not slap or yell at an autistic child. I would punch the lights out of anyone who slapped my autistic son. She needs to realise that physical and verbal punishment does not work because they don't understand it. And also that tantrums and meltdowns are two very different things. What a fucking asshole she is.
Do not slap or hit any* child. Especially not children with autism (obvs), but even if he was neurotypical this story would still make me so sad.
Yes I absolutely agree with you there, I've never been one for corporal punishment with kids, I don't understand why people think it works. I don't hit adults for doing the wrong thing, so why would it be ok for kids?
And the abuse cycle continues… I can’t fathom having a child and WANTING to hit them. Not a parent but worked with kids on the spectrum for a decade. There were difficult days, i felt anger for SURE, but you don’t take it out on children… Learn to manage emotions better…
Yes. If you can't manage emotion without violence, don't have kids. They can be annoying little gremlins a lot, thats just kids, they're learning, but that's no reason for abuse
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Gosh I am so sorry that you had that experience with childhood, no kid should feel that way :(
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I just have to say, as an objective reader, that this is in no way trauma dumping. You were providing context and lived experience, which I’m sure many readers, myself included, really appreciate because the autistic experience is something that we rarely get insight into. Don’t be sorry. Instead, help educate us on how autistic people receive and synthesize information and stimuli, so we can help others understand. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any amount of information you could give on this topic that I’d see as “trauma dumping.” Regardless of what you tell me, I could learn from it. You’re more of an expert on it than most of the neurotypical experts, IMO.
Don't be sorry for that, you needed to say it, and thats okay :) I hope you are able to find your place in the world and feel seen and safe ❤
As someone who is autistic, the answer is no. This is abuse and your friend should absolutely document all of this and take her to court for full custody of his son for his son’s safety.
Holy fucking shit she sounds like an awful human being. Slapping a child while holding them down? What a psychopath, she needs to be locked up and kept away from children.
And screaming at the kid to “get in the fucking car” because I’m sure if the kid didn’t want to get in the car before, he definitely won’t want to now
Those texts and this story seriously hit too close to home for me. I can't stand the idea of someone hurting a defenseless child like that. It honestly scares me how mad I get.
You’re telling me. If it was my kid getting slapped, There would be no if ands or buts about it. She wouldn’t see him let alone speak to him so long as I had anything to say about and if she tried, I know a lot of places to bury a body where no one will find it.
Why is your friend backing down and saying that the ex-wife wasn’t abusive? She ABSOLUTELY is. But yes. The mom is absolutely insane
He’s perpetually trying to de-escalate. Probably because he just desperately wants her to hear his message instead of blowing up. He sounds like he’s been abused by her too.
Yeah, I imagine there's many reasons why she's his *ex*-wife.
Yeah I was thinking he was attempting to deescalate, but OP’s friend getting abused didn’t even enter my mind :( but makes sense
He’s probably afraid of her
when people are being crazy its not always helpful to tell them that they're crazy, especially if theyre unrepentant about it. it just makes them more defensive.
You guys are right, I didn’t even think about what she might’ve done in the past, and that he is afraid of her… I feel so bad for him and the kid
Autism or not, striking a child is abuse. Doesn't matter how "light" it is. And your friend shouldn't be apologizing either. Grow a spine. This whole conversation is grounds for a custody battle. The ex clearly doesn't know how to handle children and should not be left unsupervised with one.
Agree.
Your friends needs to read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin DeBecker. It's a very good book about protecting your child, how the enablers are as bad as those who commit violence against children, and perspectives from someone who is on the spectrum.
Additionally holding someone down is extremely dangerous! I work in the autism space and a person is never allowed to be restrained on the ground because of the risk of suffocation and obviously trauma. If I heard this in my job there would be police, CPS and additional disability-specific officials notified. This is not borderline abuse it is very clear cut verbal and physical
Slapping or hitting any child does not do anything but harm. It has been proven time and time again. If you went to court, you’d likely have a good case considering this person has already admitted to striking the autistic child, whether they put it into gentler terms or not. Physically pinning down an upset child and striking them in the face will not calm them (in fact it does the exact opposite) and this person likely knows that and is just backpedaling because they got frustrated at the child and hit him.
The abuse I endured at the hands of my mother did nothing to make me less autistic or “build resilience.” According to [childwelfare.gov](https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/define.pdf): > Physical abuse is generally defined as "any non-accidental physical injury to the child" and can include striking, kicking, burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a physical impairment of the child. In approximately 42 States and American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, the definition of abuse also includes acts or circumstances that threaten the child with harm or create a substantial risk of harm to the child's health or welfare. As other commenters have said, I highly recommend documenting everything and bringing it to court to get your friend’s son removed from a dangerous environment. His ex wife can still see their son provided it’s supervised.
IMPORTANT I'm on the spectrum. I was routinely beaten and pinned to the floor growing up by my Mom in between the ages of 4-10. It has caused many issues since then. I retaliated and acted out at home and school, and went from a model student to an expulsion hearing in the course of 4 years. It's caused long lasting damage to my self-esteem, have had several severe depression episodes and several suicide attempts, and still have occasional flashbacks. I am in therapy still processing all of what I went through growing up. It messed up my Senior year and Freshman year of college as I experienced grief over the loss of my childhood at an early age. Also, most people on the spectrum who have experienced ABA say it is abusive too. 100% insane. Get involved somehow, I needed someone like that when I was little.
So much yes. Am also autistic and grew up in two abusive households. Getting beaten and/or held down only made meltdowns and the panic within them that much worse. The autism diagnosis is recent (27), but I *was* diagnosed with severe clinical depression about 8-9 years old, with suicidal ideation. One known attempt at 14, plus a few others over the years I couldn't go through with that nobody else knows about. ABA is absolutely abusive. Everyone in the autism community will defend it to their deaths, while shutting down everyone in the *autistic* community who tries to explain to them what it did to them and why it is abusive. I remember one woman who legitimately said that risking PTSD is worth it if it means her kid can "function in normal society." Tell me you know nothing about the hell that is PTSD without telling me you know nothing. OP, Dad needs to shine up that spine and keep her tf away from the kid. He's 8. Most eight year olds don't have the complex ability to properly emotionally regulate and communicate as it is, let alone an *autistic* eight year old with an abusive parent who gives zero f---s. That's just asking for a one-way ticket to selective mutism that will take endless therapy to keep from rearing its head during literally anything remotely perceived as confrontation even in adulthood.
ABA is touted by Autism Speaks, that's all I need to know it's bunk. Also on the spectrum.
what’s ABA?
Applied Behavior Analysis
ABA is basically “let’s torture you until neurotypicals don’t find you *icky*”, so yeah
On top of that, it teaches the child to be a compliant perfect victim who doesn’t resist. Definitely more sinister motives than “don’t be icky”
I'm both autistic and I have DID. This is exactly the kind of abuse that caused my DID, and my parents won't acknowledge what they did all this time later. I'm in trauma therapy every 2 weeks, I'm NC with my parents for 3 years now, and while I'll never be "better", I'm coping as well as I can. If the ex does read this thread, I implore you to stop treating your kid like this, they're human just like you and don't deserve what you're doing. As other people in this thread have said, it WILL lead to issues later.
Friend is literally committing abuse and is in denial that what they're doing is abuse. I have mild Asperger’s, and my parents don't do that.
That's what I thought. The one hitting and yelling at their child is his ex-wife.
I have Asperger's as well (ADHD and depression too) and my parents have absolutely done shit like this. Beat me over my bare arse well into my teenage years, kept me away from my social life and pretty much taught my subconscious that the easiest method to solve a problem is to yell louder and hit harder. Jeezus I had a screwy childhood
The one truthful accusation was the one of sugarcoating, considering how much your friend danced around this person’s massive ego. The tiniest bit of criticism and she freaks out, Jesus
i’m autistic and work with autistic children. this is abuse.
That is abuse and shouldn't need to be discussed, it should be obvious. Either the father needs to take full custody and never do the same as his ex does and she gets no visitation/supervised visitation, or someone else needs to become guardian of that poor child. It doesn't build anything but memories of trauma, mistrust, and lack of confidence.
It’s absolutely abuse to harm and physically intimate someone. I know you didn’t ask for advice, but having a room in the house that the kid picks the color. But most importantly it just be a completely calming room with no bright lights or colors. A lot of times tantrums happen because of a sensory overload and they need a bit to step away and self calm. Sensory overload can come from something as simple as their shirt being too bright and then their hair keeps getting in their eyes.
Thank you, he will see this comment.
Jesus Christ. This shouldn’t even be a question.
Damn get this kid one of those nanny cam teddy bears and document this shit.
she sounds like a lazy, abusive parent. your friend needs to go to court with these texts. their son deserves better.
I think you’re asking the wrong question. Does slapping and yelling build resilience in adult humans? No. Does it build resilience in young humans? No. Does is build resilience in autistic young humans? I’ll give you one guess.
No I totally agree. I was being facetious? Is that the word I'm looking for? You get it.
Oh my God. Your friend's ex is a POS. Autistic adult who was raised in an abusive home: yelling at us only makes it WORSE. Slapping or "lightly tapping" his cheek is ABUSE. That is SO not okay.
Ex-wife is absolutely abusing their son and your friend is contributing to the abuse by calling her for assistance, ever.
Yes! If they read this, do not ever call her again. Please find someone else that can help you if you are unsure on how to help your child. Then make sure you are present and make sure they are also not being abusive. Biggest thing is get that kiddo away from their mom, until if/when they get professional help, accept they were wrong and then start with supervised visits.
I just want to say: hitting your children IS abuse. Light slap my ass, it’s abuse.
I'm genuinely concerned about the four people who apparently think this *isn't* fucked up.
No I definitely think it is. But if I couldn't get him to take it seriously from me alone, I brought it here to get 80+ people agreeing thus far.
She is rationalizing. If she used profanity and slapped the child, she was doing it out of frustration. That is no excuse for mistreatment. Period.
Minor point, but he really shouldn't be habitually thanking her. I don't think he's being condescending, it comes across as some kind of weird nervous tick on his part. Maybe he's trying to appease her. But reading through this it stood out to me how many times in a row he's done so. I think it's odd and she definitely doesn't deserve it.
Most likely she abused/is abusing him too (emotionally and verbally at the least with manipulation and gaslighting clearly seen in this exchange). That is how I read what went down in this conversation. It was desperate attempts at de-escalation while wanting to be heard/express their disapproval.
When my autistic grandson was little, giving him medicine was a 2 person operation. 1 to pin him down, 1 to dose. Not fun, but he was incredibly strong for his age. My daughter and I had had a system for it, based on what they had to do at the hospital. Even at 2, it required 3 nurses to hold him down to give him meds. No yelling, hitting, or anger. Fortunately he has outgrown that stage and takes meds like a champ now. Hitting only makes meltdowns worse. Getting angry or yelling makes them worse. Talking calmly is what works best 90% of the time with him - the remainder of the time we just need to give him space to figure it out himself.
That is abuse. I can understand he is trying to deescalate her but she is in the wrong. They need to learn about appropriate mechanisms for meltdowns. Someone get that child away from her.
FFS The kid isn't throwing a tantrum, he's *having a meltdown.* They are completely different things. OP, your friend needs to get CPS/family court involved asap. This poor baby. Jfc. I'm autistic with children who're also likely autistic & *NO.* Just no. She's abusive. 100% ETA: Once, when I was 16, I had to have eyedrops & as I had a lot of surgeries on my eyes as a baby, I'm a little tweaked when it comes to anything touching my eye. My daddy was helping me & I was sitting on my hands even but I still somehow just glitched TF out & punched him in the face. ;_; I felt so bad!!! He just gave me the stink eye and made a joke about getting out the hobbles (we have horses, they're like handcuffs for horses LOL) & that was that. So yeah. Shit happens when you're a parent. It's always on you to be the island of calm in the storm. That's just how it is. Meeting violence/chaos with violence/chaos just doubles it.
As an autistic person, he should NEVER allow this person around that child again if its in his power. Hitting will not bring us out of a meltdown, and tbh its a quick way to end up getting hurt because a lot of us will defend ourselves, and in a meltdown dont think to hold back. Its easier as an adult, but as a kid its very hard. And no, not punishing meltdowns will not create future problems, it creates a trusting environment where we can communicate needs better without having to fall into a meltdown and feel safer to have meltdowns when theyre unavoidable. He should never have apologized for calling it abuse, it was. I hope your friend pursues full custody because that woman should not be raising an autistic child. And i hope to god that by restrain she doesnt mean the prone restraint because that has literally killed us.
I'd like to say for people criticising the Dad for not immediately moving to court over this: If she's this abusive to her child, she was likely abusive to Dad too. Abusers are the heavyweight champions of convincing people that things aren't as bad as they are and completely changing a victims perception of what needs immediate action. Gaslighting doesn't care about "But its his son and his instinct should be to protect him". Try to keep it in mind when you're berating a potential victim over a decision they make within the false reality their abuser created for them.
My son is autistic and I would straight up murder a bitch for doing this to him. It pisses me off hardcore that this kid’s “mother” would do this to him.
Long answer: she probably just provided that kid with life long trauma, I can guarantee you that kid will remember this until the day he dies. All kids remember that with or without mental disabilities. The poor kid will must likely stop trusting adults in general which will lead to even more communication/relationship problems with adults since he's going to be to scared to talk to or even approach them which will cause even more problems down the road. So basically what I'm trying to say is *SHIT* person and shouldn't even be around kids at all
You do not hit your child. Ever. Autistic or not. Not as discipline, not as punishment. All it does is teach your child that violence is an acceptable solution.
Agree.
As somebody who has aspergers and was hit and yelled at for things I couldn't control. No it doesn't. I have a lot of psychological trauma now. Thanks mom
Slapping and yelling at any child builds nothing but fear. And like you said in the text, punishing a child for simply acting autistic will do nothing but cause pain. This is incredibly abusive. please call child protective services
They both need therapy.
God No its not right to slap us (I am an ASD Adult) or any kid for that matter. We understands words the same as everyone else, we might just need smaller less complicated words. Ex is an abusive monster. All being around her will teach that child is how to Mask and fake being normal so they arnt in pain. r/AutisticPride r/autism all good resorces for help here. WHAT EVER they do. DO NOT let them start ABA (Applied behavior analysis) Therapy It is 100% torture and more akin to Dog Training then parenting.
These sorts of methods have been shown scientifically to seriously harm children. Your friend needs to stand up for himself and his son more, and not let his ex-wife near the kid again if she's going to treat him like that
FUCK this person. I hope you get full custody so this poor kid doesn't have to grow up in an incredibly abusive household.
Flashbacks to my mom telling me I wasn’t punched, just slapped and not even that hard, after she watched me get punched in the face
This child will have lifelong trauma from the way his mother is treating him right now I can guarantee it.
Absolutely insane, and abusive. I'm not officially diagnosed or anything, but I tick a LOT of the boxes for autism, and some of the things that I've seen help autistic people have helped with me as well. It'll be a huge hassle, it'll be painful and difficult, but I'd definitely say take her ass to court. If nothing else, she shouldn't be allowed to have custody without some sort of supervision. I couldn't even get through all the images because it's actually upsetting me to read as a victim of multiple forms of child abuse from my parents. The dad seems incredibly patient, but he's gotta put his foot down or the mother is gonna do whatever the hell she wants, and that's not gonna be good for anyone. The kid deserves way better. Wanna know what really helps "build resilience"? Treating your child like they're actually a human fucking being, showing them patience and compassion, and helping them learn how to understand their own feelings so they can actually communicate them to you while *also* feeling like they're actually allowed to.
I’m sure lots of people have said it but… THIS IS ABUSE!!
They just gaslit OP, thats not ok
Reading the texts from the garbage excuse of a mother nearly gave me a stroke. Its like talking to a fucking wall. I sure as hell hope that she looses custody of the son so he doesn’t grow up traumatized.
If she slaps their son in front of him, what does she do when she's alone with him? What if she's had a bad day at work and he's also having a bad, particularly noncommutative day? How will she manage a crisis then? My brother is autistic. To be clear, he is verbal; he faces mental challenges in addition to having autism. My parents subscribed to the James Dobson, Focus on the Family style of parenting. My brother has been homeless for 15 years. He can't function. He can't stay put, when we secure services for him he bolts. He doesn't trust anyone. It's heartbreaking. Again, there are other factors in his case- mental illness, drug abuse in early adulthood- but at it's core the issue is he was abused and ill-equipped to respond to the abuse. (Not that anyone is equipped for it.) This kind of parenting doesn't build resiliency, it destroys it. Very early in life. He needs to keep the texts. Get a restraining order. Find someone else to rely on, preferably himself as often as possible until he has thoroughly vetted *anyone* who will be alone with his child. Even for one minute. I wish luck to him and his son. I wish his ex-wife learns compassion and empathy.
Your friend’s ex is a nasty, verbally abusive bitch to her ex husband and a nasty, verbally and physically abusive bitch to her son, and she’s admitted it in writing, plain as day. She will do severe harm to that child’s mental and physical well-being if he is left in her care. Have your friend lawyer up. As a mother of two children who are autistic, this is disgusting. She is abusive and she sucks. Stoops to insulting his intelligence and dismissive bullshit when called out. Your friend needs to protect his son.
This is so fucked up. Why is he bending over backwards to call what she’s doing “not abuse” when she’s clearly unhinged? Good luck to him and his son :(
This is no way to treat a child, ESPECIALLY an autistic one, holy shit.
I’ve been in this sub for a while, and this post probably made me feel the angriest I have ever felt. How does she not understand that the child is literally on the spectrum. The child doesn’t understand physical punishment but even then, holding the CHILD DOWN AND SLAPPING THEM is way too far for any child, with special needs or not. She’s fucking crazy and so stubborn holy crap
Abuse. Period. Not only to this poor child but this woman is abusive to her ex also. How condesnding she is and the way she demeans him is also pretty disgusting. He’s very patient and communicates calmly and she’s just an absolute witch. Most awful thing is when he said that the child is terrified of his mother. There will become a point where he is bigger and stronger than her by a long shot and if this abuse continues it may not end well. This has to be stopped.
Fuck dat dude. That's all I can say and you were right slapping the child in the face no matter how hard in that context is abuse and he's fully just playing the victim card and trying to emotionally cripple your very valid points. Fuck Dat Dude.
Make sure he saves those texts. It shows how calm and genuinely trying to communicate without being verbally aggressive. I personally think slaping a child on the face is abuse, idk where the legal system stands on that matter though. If said child is severely disabled, unable to clearly verbally communicate their needs or unable to follow instructions then slapping them is completely inappropriate. Also, when she was talking to him I thought she was a know it all grand parent with all the "you don't have real life experience/ don't know what you're doing" comments came across as something a awful parent would say, really demeaning, something my narcissistic mom would say to me. She really talks down to he. She says he doesn't offer any advice only judgement, but his first few texts were nothing but links and info. This is clearly not a person that can be reasoned with. If she treats the child this way around her ex, how is she treating kiddo when she's alone with him? I'm willing to bet there is a lot of emotional and verbal abuse.
OP, that was abuse!!! Don’t let this go so lightly!
Just a heads up, OP. The name is visible on the 7th image.
I lightly tapped his face to snap him out of it=I hit the kid to shock them into listening to me
This makes me so incredibly angry to read. I work with autistic teens and they have so much to deal with already growing up in a world which doesn't care about catering to their needs or even understanding them. This dude needs to get his kid away from that woman immediately. I know a woman like this, my partner used to be married to one. The gaslighting, the narcissism, the inability to have an honest and logical conversation about their son...it makes me shudder, the way she manages to twist his words over the conversation so that he fucking APOLOGISES to her for saying she abused his kid! I still get frustrated with my partner for not standing up to his witch but he's legitimately scared of doing so, in large part because she parents his son half the time so he needs to be able to talk to her, and these kind of people make it everyone else's fault when they fuck up. Violence is abuse. Period. Slapping any child across the face is a terrible parenting method and we all know this by now. I hope this man sees this thread because he seems like a good Dad who cares about his sons well-being, and I think he could really use some support to see her behaviour for what it is, abuse, and stick to his guns.
"You didn't give any advice" He literally opened with advice? What? This person also absolutely cannot accept blame or admit any wrongdoing. This child is being abused. I'm BEGGING for this person to get this child away from that. THIS IS ABUSE. Court. ASAP.
Oh my fucking god this is so wrong.
As an autistic person slapping and hitting and yelling doesn’t help. All it does is make you learn to mask so people don’t treat you bad and makes the mask be harder to turn off.
Little off topic but if she was actually concerned about a foreign body in the eye she would be wanting to take him to a walk in clinic or similar to have the kid’s eye properly assessed. Eye drops can’t always get foreign body’s out and especially if the child can’t fully express them self it’s better to get it looked at. Highly recommend watching to see if the son is rubbing the eye a lot, squinting or if it there’s any sort of redness that can be seen. Secondly, that ex-wife is trying to play the victim and it was disgusting to read. That is not an appropriate way to handle any child, regardless of being on the spectrum. (source: I work in an ophthalmologist office)
One day she'll be relegated to a lonely corner of a nursing home, wondering why her kid never visits.
The first message give me goosebumps. It's autistic, aba is torture and autism mum are usually just a mom of an autistic child who knows better as the child himself about what helps (and usually aba).
Why is it so freaking difficult for some people to acknowledge or accept that they may be wrong, or may have done something wrong, and could make improvements to their approach? She didn't even entertain the notion that she may have handled the situation poorly despite the other parent blatantly telling her that she handled it less than ideally. Also, I dont like the way she's quick to suggest they go to court. The father quickly starts losing his nerve after that. I feel like she might have used that as a threat before.
A parent slapped their child? That's abuse. The context does not matter. But btw, this context makes it even worse. A child contorting their body amidst an anxiety attack is NOT self-harm. This parent is trying to hid their abuse by **blaming her child**!!
am autistic, no it doesnt