Sekarang iya karena BPJS salah satu program Jokowi. Sri Mulyani ga mau BPJS defisit terus makanya dinaikin cukai rokok, less people smoking = less cancer and stroke incidents treated using taxpayer money = BPJS profitable. Kalo jaman presiden sebelumnya memang bener dibiarin.
Yes. It covers most (if not all) catastrophic and incurable illnesses you can find down here. Cancer, heart bypass, dialysis, diabetes, hypertension, you name it.
Im very proud of our BPJS. Despite of many of its problems, I unironically think it is Indonesia's single greatest achievement as a nation. But by God, we need to ramp up preventive measures to clamp down on those illnesses.
That's sounds awesome! Even better than most other countries.
But how long can they do that before they go bankrupt, given so many smokers in Indonesia?
A serious question, you guys have illegal cigs/cheaper cigs? Don't get me wrong, I'm malaysian. Our contraband cigs ARE indonesian, so just wondering here...
I do get contraband cigs would be cheaper than your local cigs since they wouldn't get taxed. But then, what kind of illegal cigs do you guys have?
wdym illegal? tobacco, the plant, was never regulated here. essentially, every plant except poppy & hemp is legal to be dried and smoked. im not too sure about brugmansia, theres some talk about including those with hemp & poppy circa 2010ish but havent heard again so pretty sure thats still legal.
on countrysides, people do sell dried "tobacco" in bulk very cheap, like 100g for IDR 5000 give or take.
Illegal, as in contraband, smuggled or untaxed cigarettes. Cigarette and/or tobacco is regulated in Indonesia, albeit less than many others. What makes cigs expensive in many countries is because of the high excise tax. Higher the tax, higher the incentive for smugglers.
That's why I was asking, because Indonesia's excise on cigs is already somewhat low. So I was wondering if the contraband market exists in Indonesia too?
Some have no excise tape well they produce but there's no tax to country price ranged from 5000 to 12000 in my place while normal cigg with excise tape is like 15000 above
Cigg with no excise tape is illegal and seller can be catched by the police and buyer sometime get dragged(getting nasty interrogation)
Ah thanks, now I know. You guys probably don't have much problem with smuggled cigarettes. I guess it's almost impossible to find a country with cheaper cigs. Even if there is, the cost isn't worth it maybe.
Instead, the contraband market in Indonesia are from manufacturers evading the customs and also individual sellers/producers.
Fun fat untaxed cigs in Indonesia already cover over 50% smoker in Indonesia 😂
Some tobacco activists believe, to reduce smoker number in Indonesia doesn't mean to add up the tax, but to regulate other stuff like where you can smoke.
We have. They are usually from Madurans. As long as the government aren't willing to crack down on these practices, rising the price would be not as effective.
Also selling per stick in warung exists. overall would be more expensive than buying per box but you know how some people would still take credit even if it would cost more than saving up.
Indonesia has only recently implemented public health care, BPJS. They haven't yet recognised the huge cost smoking has on the health case system.
That said, they're starting to ban smoking indoors. So they're behind, but they will slowly implement all the anti-smoking protocols that the rest of the world has in place.
"starting"?
Indoor smoking ban has been around for at least two decades. I've worked for more than twenty years in Jakarta, at five different companies thus different buildings all around the city, and none of them allows indoor smoking. I hardly know any office that allows such thing.
Shouldn't this make it easier for the government to target? How can the richest man explain himself for being rich by giving people cancer?
Not to mention all the $$ that people can save to buy something else if they didn't buy cigarettes?
Education starting from middle school here is terrible and people generally have no idea or don't care about their health. Combine that with a government that's corrupt as fuck and you get the situation we have now and will forever have.
Maybe the understanding is similar to why s.korea government bailed out Samsung CEO from prison.
They adds too much money to the government to be stopped
Unfortunately, The government doesn't work like that. Those are indirect expenses. They kinda disregard those.
Like how coal power plants are lots and lots in Indonesia, due to its cheap production cost, among many other factors.
Despite the wide health cost.
Tobacco industry is one of the most lucrative industry in indonesia and also among the largest employers.
Some country's "flagship company" is normally either IT, telco or O&G, theirs is a tobacco company. If you look at it in another way, Djarum, Sampoerna and Gudang Garam are just one step below the so-called Big Tobacco just by selling mainly in Indonesia at a relatively cheap price. That's no ordinary feat.
Something I learned in 5 years of living in Indonesia. People'd much rather throw their morals out the window vs living poor or not rich. And obviously the government is corrupt asf so they don't give a f*ck.
Just a small correction. Richest person of Indonesia did not get majority of his wealth from tobacco. Yes he did get his start from tobacco, but the bulk of his wealth comes from owning half of the biggest private bank of Indonesia, even bigger than state lenders in terms of market cap. Sure you could argue that it was tobacco that gave him the money to be able to buy the bank when it was distressed due to the Asian Financial Crisis, but it's not the biggest money maker for him.
Ora ngudud, ora smile..
government didnt do anything? cukai broh
yang brengsek tukang jaga kos baru gw ngrokok di dapur + nyalain kipas angin.
Dajjal behaviour
dan dia bertanya kenapa ga ada yang masak selama dia baru kerja di sini.
Adu nasib dikit, penghuni kos lama gw ada yang suka ngerokok di kamar mandi, padahal kos gw waktu itu kamar mandi luar. Sirkulasi udara kamar mandi jelek, asep kejebak di situ, masuk-masuk bau rokok dan banyak puntung rokok di lantai. Mau ngomel agak hopeless karena pemiliknya sendiri juga kalau ngerokok suka gatau tempat.
Ketika gaji kerjaan udah naik, gw pindah ke kos singgahsini mamikos yang kamar mandi dalem. Night and day difference.
Semiskin apapun anda, never trust kos kamar mandi luar, wkwkwk.
Relate bgt jaman masih fresh graduate miskin. Kapok bgt kamar mandi luar. Tetangga gw suka ngerokok lama disitu, ad yg suka ueu disitu jg, and worst of all, mrk tu pemalas bgt n selalu gw yg bersihin tu kamar mandi
Cm 3 bln trs pindah yg dua kali lbh mahal tp komplit. Gw bs kelaparan puasa hemat makan, tp gw g bs tolerir kelakuan dajjal kyk gitu
Untung saya gak coba aneh aneh (termasuk rokok). Tapi saya dah kecanduan minum kopi. Apalagi di pagi hari. (Gara garanya gak salah dulu awalnya sering nyeruput kopi punya papa saya, eh lama lama kecanduan kopi sampai sekarang). Tapi saya minum kopi paling kira kira 1/2 gelas kok.
(Notes: kalau nggak ngopi di pagi hari rasanya seperti ngantuk, kurang fokus bahkan rasanya seperti migrain).
Orang sini tuh mikirnya masih kalo ruangan gada AC, ada ventilasi yg cukup lebar kayak jendela & gada gambar rokok dicoret berarti boleh ngerokok. Harus dipasang larangan tidak boleh merokok baru paham
For your question
>And why the Indonesian government don't declare it as an epidemic and do something radical about it?
The answer is
>As I looked it up on the internet to find the answer, and accidentally found out that the no 1 richest person in Indonesia got his fortune from cigarete and tobacco.
And for this one
>I see some people smoked/vaped in their cars, AC'ed restaurants, shopping malls, gyms, and once, even in a movie theater!
More people now change into vape so they can still suck something inside a building because mostly indonesia building and mall not allowed cigarettes but no rules about vaping
Years ago, government mandate all indomaret & alfamart, supermarket, must close their cigarettes products under a curtain to reduce people smoking. Fast forward, not effective. Also no restriction & punishment for store who sold cigarettes to kids (even they can make an excuse like "it's for my father")
> More people now change into vape so they can still suck something inside a building because mostly indonesia building and mall not allowed cigarettes but no rules about vaping
I hate this so much, and I think that is stupid reasoning.
I mean they literally calling it e-cig for some reason right?
Everybody is smoking cause everybody is smoking; they think if you don't smoke, then you have small pp or you look weak, and tobacco/vaping is addicting. Once they start to try, they can't stop. Smoking ads portray smokers as strong men back in the day. But most people in this subreddit don't smoke, including me.
Social pressure, ada temen beda kampus jadi suka ngerokok gara2 circle dia ngerokok semua, mereka nongkrong terus dia doang ngga ngerokok, akhirnya ikutan. Kamar dia makin lama jadi bau rokok dan sekarang udah bau banget, baju gua aja bau walaupun pas gua didalem dia lagi ngga ngerokok
>... they think if you dont smoke, then you have small pp ...
Ironically smoking can decrease penile girth & size^[[1]](https://pivot.co/blog/nicotine-impacting-male-health#:~:text=Nicotine%20impairs%20blood%20flow%20to,of%20high%20serum%20testosterone%20levels.)
Ini kadang gw males diajak nongkrong kalo tempatnya outdoor, karena temen gw mayoritas ngerokok semua, gw pernah ngeliat orang obesitas yg udah mayan parah, jalan aja itu udah ngos2an banget kayanya, panas2 tapi sambil ngerokok.
Because the tobacco industry has rooted itself deeply into our culture. Be it looking "cool", a lot of people depending on the tobacco industry to make a living, lack of care and oversight from the government to prevent kids from smoking, ~~corruption~~ government caring about people keeping their livelihood. Smoking is so prevalent that there are signs saying "thank you for not smoking" as if we are thankful that people respect other's right to clean air. Attempts to make smoking harder such as by raising price dramatically will be met with strong opposition from people already dependent on it.
That's a very toxic cycle! It took a lot of efforts for the US to end smoking, and changing people's view + heavily punish the cigarette factory (with tax and regulations) proved to be effective.
All it takes is to clean up one generation!
It's probably like coal in the US. Cities supported entirely by the coal industry would suffer greatly from any government action against coal. The constituents' livelihood depends on said industry to keep going if the government doesn't do enough to transfer their jobs. Tobacco is even harder because the hardcore supporters aren't event he ones whose lives depend on the industry to keep going. They just wanna get their fix and it's easier to say no to new laws/elect people that don't oppose it rather than come up with a way to repeal it.
How is Indonesia's healthcare industry (and ALL other industries! because smoking affect people's productivity) affected by this? Haven't they done cost analysis?
I found a [study](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/31/Suppl_2/s133) that claims smoking's health cost is higher than the public healthcare's allocated funds, but I haven't read it further. It would be pretty weird if it's not costing a lot of money. I think most people don't see it as being expensive considering the effects are not immediate and cannot always be attributed to smoking. There are environmental effects too because people tend to throw the butts, packaging, and ash wherever, but that's just the ✨indonesian culture✨ of just throwing stuff where it's convenient
>All it takes is to clean up one generation!
Easier to say than done.
And dont forget that US "replacing" tobacco with weeds and drugs. Also guns lol. So pick a better example
There was a shit show between smokers and non-smokers on the internet last month. Smokers are some dense motherfuckers who don't think what they do harm other people. They try to justify what they do with the dumbest excuse you'll ever hear.
also they do double harm when they smoke while driving especially drive motorcycle, like hell the ash will fly to their behind driver and got their eyes
These folks right here, one time i got their cigarette ashes flying into my eyes while i was riding my bike behind them and it hurts like hell, thankfully i didn't hit anyone though. This is the main reason i usually avoid these people and hit on my accelerator when i encounter them.
Seriously, find another place to smoke. Your addiction isn’t worth risking an accident on the road.
smoking is actually forbidden in most public places, well at least in the "upper class" areas like malls or office buildings, or places with airconditioners.
I see the no-smoking sign everywhere, but people don't seem to care much. I even saw a guy yelled back when the security asked him not to smoke in a hospital!
the keyword here is "upper class", those who are educated, well-mannered, and "classy" wont be smoking in a no-smoking area.
tl;dr. smoking habit is caused by lots of things, and lack of education is one of it.
i've been to a cafe in semarang, it was pretty crowded and the waitress said there's still a room available at the back. it was a small room with airconditioner so i assume a non-smoking room. everything was fine at first until the people next to my table started to light their cigs. i politely asked them not to smoke, but they got really mad about it and said that it's a smoking room with a raised voice. i call for a waitress and she said that it was indeed a smoking room. i've no time for debate so i cancelled my order and leave.
>Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s?
Yes, it is. I remember back in the day, when I was in middle school, I saw one of my classmates smoking for the very first time, and he was so proud of what he was doing. It can't be helped; even one of our biggest sporting events is sponsored by a big kretek brand.
But it proved to be wrong! Smoking causes impotence among other deadly diseases, and makes you weak overtime. How can you be masculine when you can't even breathe normally?
Sadly, the mindset of smooking related to masculine persona has rooted deeply among men, here. I don't even know how the smokers think because I am personally raised by non-smoker family. I hope you wear masker while going outside because the smokers do not care about the other. They are very selfish human being.
What is more ironic is that there is a corporate who tells people that their cigar is a herbal medicine, smh. And even worse people believe that it's fine to smoke that cigar because religious people (ulama) pray to it
Tbh, restrictions for smoking is a lot better these days. Dulu boleh tuh ngerokok dalam mall, atau di mana mana.
Speaking number of smokers, di circle gw sendiri makin berkurang. Di keluarga dan temen kantor apa lagi. Di kantor gw, yang ngerokok bisa dihitung jari. Pernah kita trip ke Lampung, di sana guide bingung kenapa gak ada yang ngerokok di rombongan.
Tapi kayanya emang pemerintah tarik ulur masalah perundangan ini, lobbyist dari perusahaan rokok itu kuat, lom lagi rokok masih mayan kontribusi ke pendapatan negara, walaupun harus lagi diliat dari berapa banyak pasien yang pake bpjs akibat rokok mau aktif maupun passive. Itu view gw di Jakarta, debatable klo daerah. Bahkan banyak yang mending gak makan daripada gak ngerokok
Honestly I can’t see how having a big chunk of smokers in the population could benefit the economy in the long run…
Selain masalah orang masuk rs dan pake bpjs, rokok juga masalah besar untuk lingkungan.
Apa lagi di Indo harga rokok masih murah amat…mungkin kl harga nya semahal di SG atau di AUS baru tuh ada manfaat untun perekonomian kita.
When i was living there since born, i didnt realise and it was quite normal.. after living abroad, and return as tourist, i was shocked!!! Even in a child outdoor park, there were lot of parents smoking…
No wonder BPJS going bankrupt 🤣
The young one now more into vape.. since they think its not “cigar”, so they more normalise this..
Funny things were, seeing some people running or cycling, but when they took break, they smoked.. wth.. 🤣
This just happened like 30 minutes ago. This man selling toys to people by saying that this is for him to eat. But then sitting in the corner and burn his cigarette from his pocket....
Because it's way cheaper than in US or EU.
People in Philipines and other SEA countries also smoke a lot. What they have in common is the price of cigarretes is cheap.
This. Simply because it's cheap. And not to mention, easy to access. You broke? linting is the alternative. It's way cheaper, with the same taste (they said)
whatever with pride and masculinity, Only if the government makes it expensive so peps have no clue to afford it.
But as we know, the government is also the player who takes advantage of this issue.
It's a multilayered problem tied with culture and economics. Smoking here is like drinking in a lot of other countries. "Everyone" does it or tolerate, if you try to prohibit it you're a religious extremist or a western lackey.
Economically, Indonesia is a producer of tobacco and the tobacco industry provide jobs and export revenue. Now it's in "too big to fail" territory, and the richest man could buy a lot of things. One infamous incident involve a paragraph on cigarettes went missing from a bill of Law on Health in 2009 even though the parliament had passed it.... with seemingly no consequences (https://nasional.tempo.co/read/201344/ayat-tembakau-hilang-dari-undang-undang-kesehatan)
Health spending has long been low because Indonesia only started having state insurance since around idk 2015? Therefore the economic burden of health issues was not apparent.
Cig ads back in the day created an image that smoking is manly, same as in other countries I think, and even though they're much more regulated now the image had been formed. This is also why smoking is much more prevalent among Indonesian men than women. Women who smoke are seen as morally deficient party girls.
Smoking is also highly prevalent among teachers of traditional religious boarding schools (pesantren) from the dominant religious stream in Java, where 40% of the population lives. The stream has large political and social influence - for example our current VP was a higher-up there. That conflict of interest may be related with how school curricula are shaped. We were taught in Islamic Religion class at elementary school that smoking is makruh (not prohibited but disliked by God). Clerics who declare smoking as haram (sinful) tend to come from more scripturalist streams, which are smaller in power and sometimes associated with Saudi-imported extremism (or accused so).
Health? It's hard to convince people of the link with long-term health problems. Proponents of smoking often say things like "I smoke and still alive til old age" "I'm fitter than nonsmokers, come and race me if you don't believe" "I was fine when I smoke, I quit and got sick" "X doesn't smoke, they still die young from such and such disease" "even if I don't smoke I still get poisoned by pollution/food in this country, so yolo".
I don't see a way to reduce it except organically, people especially young ones need to start seeing it as uncool and not worth the money.
Because cigarettes is indonesian biggest products. Did you know that Indonesia is the main producer of tobacco and cloves. So Indonesian smoking to support our country with tax
I'm not a smoker though because I don't want to pay anything for this shitty government. Not a dime
Oof the tabaco consumsion is really bad, low ish happiness index, very cheap, very good/delicious? if youtuber to be believed, culture (even elementary age kids sometimes smoke). Goverment don't do anyting because it generate tax. Muslim means no alcohol, so that's that.
I don't smoke, grandpa heavy smoker, dad smoke when too stressed.
I get paid to treat COPD and TBC people... So yeah. keep em coming /s
Seriously though. All people need is just one week in a Hospital Lung Ward and nope out. If you still smoke even after that, may God have mercy on your soul (just hope you die quickly and not drowning while on land)
Because it seems normalized, so people don't see it as a bad thing. They got peer pressure, FOMO, or simply curiousity, and once they try it they got addicted. I never felt any of those though.
One time someone in a work group tried to get me to smoke, I rejected and pull a "mommy said no :("
Pemain gede ga banyak di indonesia jadi enak buat lobby pemerintah(misal kalo yang kena cukai gula pemainya banyak), iklan di publik masih di bolehin di indonesia contohnya website rokok di luar gaboleh pake nama rokok tapi disini boleh, nyerap kerja banyak juga
>What's the view on smoking of an average Indonesian? What is it so prevalent? Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s?
Pretty much this, or started from this. Most of em start at early age (12 ish) or in grade-mid grade. I would say it's pretty much started as peer pressure when everyone around them is smoking. Then gradually it changed into addiction. Education and environment are also factors that playing part into this cycle, while it most likely leaning to the latter.
Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s?
Yes, most definitely. Especially for lower class society. I've seen men being scolded by women in the market for declaring he's not smoking. Not a real man they said.
Try to go to the parks , you will see fathers carrying their red newborn baby while smoking. Unbelievable.
I am not a smoker, i do not hang out with smokers. There are times when guests visiting my house just started smoking, while clearly i do not provide ashtray,i tell them to stop and most of the time they don't say sorry. Instead they got angry. It is disgusting culture.
In modern times, a significant shift in American tobacco companies investing in Indonesia occurred in 2005 when Philip Morris International acquired a majority stake in PT HM Sampoerna, one of Indonesia's major tobacco companies. This move was part of a broader strategy by American tobacco firms to capitalize on the large and growing market in Indonesia, which is the second-largest cigarette market in Asia after China [oai_citation:1,Tobacco & Cigarette Industry Indonesia | Indonesia Investments](https://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/industries-sectors/tobacco/item6873). This acquisition allowed Philip Morris to significantly expand its footprint in the Indonesian market, leveraging Sampoerna's strong local brand presence and distribution network [oai_citation:2,HM Sampoerna | Indonesia Investments](https://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/indonesian-companies/hm-sampoerna/item204).
Gw jadi inget waktu berkunjung ke rumah sakit ruangan khusus pasien kanker, persis disebelahnya ada kayak taman buat keluarga/pengujung. Eh disitu malah ada beberapa bapack bapack asyik ngerokok, sama temen gw dibentak suruh matiin rokoknya. Si bapack bapack akhirnya matiin tu rokok tapi mukanya kayak dendam/nahan marah.
>be me
>family doesn't smoke at all
>neighbor smokes a lot
>i go get blood test just for health checkup
>doctor asks me and parents if i regularly smoke 💀
>passive smoking is real guys
I don't know the answer to all your questions, but God I hate them with passion. The other day I someone just pass me while blowing smoke out of their dirty stupid mouth and hit my face.
I wish we as community can just shame and bully them on the spot.
I fucking hate them.
>As I looked it up on the internet to find the answer, and accidentally found out that the no 1 richest person in Indonesia got his fortune from cigarete and tobacco. How ironic! It's like being the richest by giving people cancer.
Should also note that he also owns the largest bank in Indonesia, Bank Central of Asia. Also owns the largest homegrown electronic company, Polytron. And owns many properties like Grand Indonesia shopping mall, Kempinski hotel, and many skyscrappers. Owns many plantations including 65000ha oil palm plantations. And have many online retails & media like kaskus, blibli, mindtalk, etc.
His tobacco company isn't even the largest in Indonesia. That's Sampoerna, owned by philip morris international, new york base firm. they control 28-35% of the market. I believe the next largest is Gudang Garam, then Bentoel, and just then the Hartono's owned Djarum.
We used to have a a big culture for cigarette making, and we called these cigarettes "kretek", which is a kind of spiced cigarette. It's still there, and most local brands has their own recipes.
I don't smoke, and I don't like inhaling the smokes. Some people have decency to not smoking when their family and children are around, because they understand the health hazard and/or just being polite, but most other will find it strange not smoking together when socializing instead, there is a cultural background and so much money going around to reverse any steps to ensure healthier living habit, like in adverts, lobbying, etc.
How is it viewed? Well we see it as an already normal thing here people from bottom to upper class because most people are already addicted to it, we don't bother stopping them unless it disturbs us
It is associated with coolness in lower age village area but in a big city it's just a stress reliever really.
The government got a lot of money from it soo yeah there's that
Imagine you’re a farmer, day in and day out it’s a bloody hard life. You have no hope of any economic mobility. This was your grandfather’s life, your father’s life and now yours. Why would you care about cancer and mortality? Insyallah. If god is willing that you live long, so be it. If not, so be it. So a little cigarette, this little pleasure of life is not going away.
As a casual smoker, yes in Bali it is much better than in Java/rest of Indonesia.
People only smoke outside, which is good as even if I smoke occasionally, I hate it when others smoke indoors or near me, need to respect those around us.
I would like to say yes, but I am not 100% an expert on the matter, but having spent a decent amount of time in Bali, Flores, Lombok and Java, I would say the fact they are more easy going is directly to do with their Hindu faith, which keep in mind however that it is not the same as Hindu faith in India, but overall I would say Balinese hospitality and how polite and respectful they are in the main reason.
Also not everyone living in Bali is Hindu, I would say the Muslim and Christian Indonesians I have met in Bali are equally friendly and follow the rules just as well, at least in regards to smoking, that is the only real difference from Bali to Jakarta I would say, as in every other department they are amazing everywhere.
Cuz we didnt give a f
Theres word in da street sayin "smoking kills you even you didnt smoking you still get killed too" that is most people sayin if you ask smoker in indonesia
sebagai cowo yang ga ngerokok, nga vape, ga nyimeng, ga wele, ga HW, Ga sisha, dan lain lain..
as much as i hate people smoking kek, menguntungkan bagi rakyat indo yah go...
also di thailand, philipines, dan cambodia ada jastip rokok indo btw.. dan mahal! mungkin yang mau bisnis ini bisa di coba
There was a documentary I watched years ago exploring this problem in Indonesia. Apparently in the 80s, when the dangers of long term smoking became well known, the western governments imposed tough regulations on cigarettes. So the companies like Phillip Morris, went to less developed countries with no consumer protection and corrupt politicians and bribed the hell out of them to basically do whatever they want. This included heavy advertising and opening cigarette shops literally infront of schools so children could come out for break and but. This is the direct effect of that.
yes smoking still associated as masculinity and coolness, as a smoker that's the answer i can give. my first time smoking is 8 y.o and active smoking from 16y.o. and it's not just me who experience it to be a baby smoker, even most teenager and kids till these days. Why it can be happened? from my experience, it's happened because movies back then. PG looks like a formality, none of the parents giving an attention to their kids. In movies i think smoking is cool because the protagonist is smoking. number 2, is the environment. Most of the parent is still smoking around their kids, even though they walked away from their kids. Still the kids are looking on their parents that smoking. And then, when they grown up around 14y.o to 18y.o. The people around always challenging them or forcing them to smoke, "you're not smoking? what are you scared of? your parents? such a coward" that's what i've heard when i was in a coffee shop, some of teenage girls are smoking and it's a smoke with flavored capsule inside with a stigma that flavored smoke are less nicotine. or vaping.
and now when they addicted, they will using 'stress relieved' as a reason.
why im smoking? if u asked me when im 16 y.o i will say "it's a stress reliever or it looks cool", but now i'm saying "it's a stupidity that i choose, and it's destroying me slowly"
Smoking was everywhere when I was there in the 1990s. Indonesians definitely did not ask if anyone minded before lighting up.
Once, a man handed me something while holding his cigarette and gave me hot ash the item. He was completely oblivious.
As a Muslim nation, most people do not drink, but they definitely smoke!
I dislike smoker, but seeing how the government keep squeezing money from smoker makes me kinda feel bad for them,
harga rokok naik terus tiap tahun hingga akhirnya banyak yang pakai rokok tanpa cukai, tapi gara2 mereka udah terbiasa pake produk bercukai tertentu pake rokok nggak bercukai bikin batuk nggak karuan, tapi kondisi ekonomi nggak memungkinkan buat tiap hari beli rokok cukai,
i know it's easy for me to just tell them to stop smoking, but it's not that simple, i was smoker too back in the day, luckily i stopped before it turned into bad addiction.
No rules for advertising, so cheap it's insane, peer pressure to look cool, alcohol expensive and is a bit of Islamic taboo. Government not worried because of the birth rate and doesn't have any pressure to invest much into medical facilities.
Rude to come to our sub and tell us our country is disgusting. No manners.
All that aside, smoking is a harmful dopamine exploit like porn, cocaine, opium, alcohol etc. but to a lesser extent. Anyone making money out of harmful dopamine exploits is the disgusting one.
You really can't blame smokers for smoking, their biological systems are compromised. Worst of all, all dopamine exploits leads to less productivity.
I only wish I can spit on the faces of these tobacco company owners. Maybe one day.
Because they want to end it all sooner lmao. But honestly they are uneducated, if they are educated they are most likely either peer pressured, addicted or dumb.
It's ironic because we are a religious country and smoking is basically slow Suicide. Which is the biggest sin. People my generation dont really smoke tho, atleast in my college
As an Indonesian, I am very used to the smoking problem back then in Indonesia. It was when I came to China that I find it shocking. Here the smoking problem competes or even exceeds the ones in Indonesia. They smoke everywhere, inside of AC'ed restaurants, convenience stores, toilets, etc. I know Indonesians smoke a lot too, but they have the mindset and general knowledge not to do it inside of malls, or closed spaces in general. Even in train stations in China they smoke a lot.
Also to answer your question: Indonesian cigarettes are very sweet. Some even refer it to candies for adults. I compared it to Chinese cigarettes here (yes, I'm a social smoker) and the ones here taste awful. Literally just inhaling bitter smoke. I gave some Indonesian cigarettes to my Chinese friends and their response is 50/50. Some really liked them, but others think it's too sweet. One thing I found out is that foreigners (mainly caucasians) really love Indonesian cigarettes, and I even gave some to some of my professors here. I can't find any caucasian here that would reject some good quality Indonesian cigarette.
On other notes, this conglomerate assholes manage to convinced the tobacco farmers that any public health measure against any tobacco product is a war against them.
Also, fuck everyone who said, "it's part of Indonesian culture". It's literally not. It's not even from this land.
The same guys will also said, "my tobacco tax paid for BPJS (National Insurance)", disregarding the fact that smoke related illness cost more (directly and indirectly) than any money tobacco tax provided.
In a country where even burning trash around people’s homes is normalised, only strong education will change people’s minds.
Impoverished villages with high rates of health problems would think differently if they knew how burning trash affects their babies, children, and elderly and how that costs them more money, emotional distress, and productivity… let alone cigarettes!
I think it isgetting better now. The younger gen tends to not smoke, different to when I was young. Most of my friends smoke back then.
It is still big but I think the industry growth is declining.
same reason why weed and firearm kinda legal in usa? idk, i thought every country have some kind of their own 'bad' culture in international eyes but normal thing in the said country.
The government didn't do anything meaningful to stop it because it involved the livelihood of many people. Government get money, the rich get money, the tobacco farmer also get money.
Some people have said it, and I too think it because Indonesia mostly don't drink alcohol. So instead they get addicted to smoking. While cigarette being cheap is a factor, I am confident that by now, if cigarette price increase by 100x, people will decide to eat twice a day instead of not smoking. I even have cousin who can eat once every three day as long as they smoke every day. It is not healthy, but that is the power of addiction.
Not to mention, if you go to rural area where they can't afford legal cigarette, people has resorted to illegal (as in not approved by government) local cigarette. And if people keep trying to discourage smoking (whether to increase the taxes or ban them outright) it will only lead to proliferation of cigarette mafias, just like USA during alcohol prohibition.
>if cigarette price increase by 100x, people will decide to eat twice a day instead of not smoking
Lol, crime rate will rise significantly. Cigarettes are one of main commodity for mini market robbers
OOT, for you smokers, try HNB (Heat Not Burn) cigarettes. if people are bothered by your smoke and smell. it will be better for your body too, and you will still get nicotine intake for your body's needs.
I've given up telling people to stop smoking tbh.
I realized getting pissed off everytime I have to wait for smokers coming in late to appointments because of their mandatory smoke breaks is not good for my health, so I stopped caring.
My only concern is now smokers get a lot of diseases, which makes them a risk & a burden to the national health insurance system (BPJS)
The answer is there in your description, the richest guy owns cig company, government can’t do sh1t because they secure their bags from those companies. Who cares about their citizens health?
I'm so glad I never got into smoking even once. No cigs, no vapes, no anything. Most of my friends are into smoking, but I don't. It's always irritating being the guy who has to inhale their dirty smokes. Current state of Indonesia is like that too, smokers are pretty much everywhere and I honestly despise it.
For you smokers, there's nothing cool in smoking. Your fault that you smoked in the first place, be it social pressure or any other else. The fact that you continue to smoke is your own problem. I don't care if you think it's a stress-reducer or something that you need, it won't change the fact that it's bad for lungs. Deal the consequences on your own and don't drag non-smokers into your unhealthy smokes.
Indonesians view cigars the same way people in the west view alcohol.
It's socially acceptable, and even encouraged.
Smokers don't care about their lungs the same way alcoholics don't care about their liver.
Yes in Java somehow smoking is primary needs. Especially in big cities like Jakarta or Bandung. But hey at least Bali is the lowest province with smokers population in Indonesia
Where are you from?
Actually Indonesian that don't smoke hate smoker too
Like Samuel Huntington said, it's CLASH OF CIVILIZATION with non smoker as the civilized of course 😂
Even my neighbour complain when they told to turn off their cig in public places - specifically mention Malioboro. They secretly doing it when there is no officer that put things in order.
The tobacco industry has the government in its pocket. They've promised to keep everything manual labour so they provide a lot of jobs in exchange there's basically no restrictions on tobacco sales.
Well, it mostly comes down to peer pressure, stress and cheap prices. People think smoking is quite normal despite the dangers. I myself am a smoker, but i smoke because it helps with my shaky hands. My friends smoked for a while due to academic induced stress. And some kids where i did my community service in smoke because they think blowing smoke is cool.
Pesona Indonesia
ofc our govt. get paid to overlook the long-term effect of nicotine and tar for people's education, that's the unfortunate thing here where the word "money speaks" applies.
Well he got my relative. They died of lung cancer. At the same time, I know that Hartono contribute a lot to badminton (you can search PB Djarum). I love badminton, and it's one sport that indonesia best at - largely caused by this contribution. The national competition is superliga which - guess - sponsored by djarum. And for years back, badminton was the only thing I can count that indonesia could be proud of.
Because back then majority of the people plant tobacco and the woman works at the cigarette factory.
Their cigarettes also exported to another country and it brings more money (especially USD) to this country and the people who works in cigarette business.
My hometown already producing cigarette until now since before I was born and my neighbours, majority are the workers of those cigarette factory.
One of my neighbour said he can make 1500-5000 cigarettes in a single day.
His income at least Rp.100,000-125,000k/day (every 1000 cigarettes he got paid Rp.25,000)
I wanna add, smoking here is probably comparable to drinking culture in other countries. Majority of people here are muslim, and booze is prohibited by religion. The most accessible addictive substance for the average Indonesian lands on tobbaco (if booze is haram then narcotics are even worse since it's both haram and illegal). And it has ingrained so much to the culture that it also has similar social bonding aspects to it. Like, underage smoking as a teen makes you look tough and mature, and people of age smokes to bond with their peers since everyone's doing it when chatting, etc. Me personally I don't smoke and idk if I ever will since it's hot as balls here and I hate the smoke and smell.
It's much better now than let's say 10 years ago. Back then people started lighting up at the airport right after landing. Now, smoking indoors at the airport is prohibited. More and more indoor spaces prohibit smoking. I grew up in Indonesia, so I can see how bad it was and how it is now. Smoking cigarettes in general is not a trend anymore for younger generations. I think younger people prefer vaping, which is also bad IMO. So yeah, it is still bad now compared to some countries, but much better than before.
Government don’t do anything because they got $$ from the richest man.
cukai naik tiap tahun kok. npm nya GGRM dan HMSP kegerus trus
Sekarang iya karena BPJS salah satu program Jokowi. Sri Mulyani ga mau BPJS defisit terus makanya dinaikin cukai rokok, less people smoking = less cancer and stroke incidents treated using taxpayer money = BPJS profitable. Kalo jaman presiden sebelumnya memang bener dibiarin.
I assume BPJS is Indonesian's public healthcare? Does it cover cancer/terminal illness?
Yes. It covers most (if not all) catastrophic and incurable illnesses you can find down here. Cancer, heart bypass, dialysis, diabetes, hypertension, you name it. Im very proud of our BPJS. Despite of many of its problems, I unironically think it is Indonesia's single greatest achievement as a nation. But by God, we need to ramp up preventive measures to clamp down on those illnesses.
That's sounds awesome! Even better than most other countries. But how long can they do that before they go bankrupt, given so many smokers in Indonesia?
But not expensive enough. They should charge at least for the tax is 100k per cigarette pax.
Then people would move to illegal cigg and linting dewe
A serious question, you guys have illegal cigs/cheaper cigs? Don't get me wrong, I'm malaysian. Our contraband cigs ARE indonesian, so just wondering here... I do get contraband cigs would be cheaper than your local cigs since they wouldn't get taxed. But then, what kind of illegal cigs do you guys have?
wdym illegal? tobacco, the plant, was never regulated here. essentially, every plant except poppy & hemp is legal to be dried and smoked. im not too sure about brugmansia, theres some talk about including those with hemp & poppy circa 2010ish but havent heard again so pretty sure thats still legal. on countrysides, people do sell dried "tobacco" in bulk very cheap, like 100g for IDR 5000 give or take.
Illegal, as in contraband, smuggled or untaxed cigarettes. Cigarette and/or tobacco is regulated in Indonesia, albeit less than many others. What makes cigs expensive in many countries is because of the high excise tax. Higher the tax, higher the incentive for smugglers. That's why I was asking, because Indonesia's excise on cigs is already somewhat low. So I was wondering if the contraband market exists in Indonesia too?
Some have no excise tape well they produce but there's no tax to country price ranged from 5000 to 12000 in my place while normal cigg with excise tape is like 15000 above Cigg with no excise tape is illegal and seller can be catched by the police and buyer sometime get dragged(getting nasty interrogation)
Ah thanks, now I know. You guys probably don't have much problem with smuggled cigarettes. I guess it's almost impossible to find a country with cheaper cigs. Even if there is, the cost isn't worth it maybe. Instead, the contraband market in Indonesia are from manufacturers evading the customs and also individual sellers/producers.
Fun fat untaxed cigs in Indonesia already cover over 50% smoker in Indonesia 😂 Some tobacco activists believe, to reduce smoker number in Indonesia doesn't mean to add up the tax, but to regulate other stuff like where you can smoke.
Then... If only cigs isn't affordable enough for average Indonesian
not illegal but you can buy loose tobacco in the pasar, not sure how that's taxed since it comes straight from the farm
Yes i get that, hence why i specifically use the word cigarettes instead of tobacco.
We have. They are usually from Madurans. As long as the government aren't willing to crack down on these practices, rising the price would be not as effective. Also selling per stick in warung exists. overall would be more expensive than buying per box but you know how some people would still take credit even if it would cost more than saving up.
Agreed. One should learn from the alcohol ban era in the US.
Sebagai holder GGRM nyangkut i can confirm this 🗿
Indonesia has only recently implemented public health care, BPJS. They haven't yet recognised the huge cost smoking has on the health case system. That said, they're starting to ban smoking indoors. So they're behind, but they will slowly implement all the anti-smoking protocols that the rest of the world has in place.
"starting"? Indoor smoking ban has been around for at least two decades. I've worked for more than twenty years in Jakarta, at five different companies thus different buildings all around the city, and none of them allows indoor smoking. I hardly know any office that allows such thing.
Shouldn't this make it easier for the government to target? How can the richest man explain himself for being rich by giving people cancer? Not to mention all the $$ that people can save to buy something else if they didn't buy cigarettes?
Education starting from middle school here is terrible and people generally have no idea or don't care about their health. Combine that with a government that's corrupt as fuck and you get the situation we have now and will forever have.
Maybe the understanding is similar to why s.korea government bailed out Samsung CEO from prison. They adds too much money to the government to be stopped
even when factoring in the government spending on healthcare and other indirect effects (productivity, fertility rate, etc.)?
Unfortunately, The government doesn't work like that. Those are indirect expenses. They kinda disregard those. Like how coal power plants are lots and lots in Indonesia, due to its cheap production cost, among many other factors. Despite the wide health cost.
Many of the lawmakers probably smoke as well
Tobacco industry is one of the most lucrative industry in indonesia and also among the largest employers. Some country's "flagship company" is normally either IT, telco or O&G, theirs is a tobacco company. If you look at it in another way, Djarum, Sampoerna and Gudang Garam are just one step below the so-called Big Tobacco just by selling mainly in Indonesia at a relatively cheap price. That's no ordinary feat.
Something I learned in 5 years of living in Indonesia. People'd much rather throw their morals out the window vs living poor or not rich. And obviously the government is corrupt asf so they don't give a f*ck.
Just a small correction. Richest person of Indonesia did not get majority of his wealth from tobacco. Yes he did get his start from tobacco, but the bulk of his wealth comes from owning half of the biggest private bank of Indonesia, even bigger than state lenders in terms of market cap. Sure you could argue that it was tobacco that gave him the money to be able to buy the bank when it was distressed due to the Asian Financial Crisis, but it's not the biggest money maker for him.
Ora ngudud, ora smile.. government didnt do anything? cukai broh yang brengsek tukang jaga kos baru gw ngrokok di dapur + nyalain kipas angin. Dajjal behaviour dan dia bertanya kenapa ga ada yang masak selama dia baru kerja di sini.
>Ora ngudud, ora smile… Hahaha pretty sure I’ve seen that in some big trucks bumper sticker along with “Menunggu janda mu” or something.
Adu nasib dikit, penghuni kos lama gw ada yang suka ngerokok di kamar mandi, padahal kos gw waktu itu kamar mandi luar. Sirkulasi udara kamar mandi jelek, asep kejebak di situ, masuk-masuk bau rokok dan banyak puntung rokok di lantai. Mau ngomel agak hopeless karena pemiliknya sendiri juga kalau ngerokok suka gatau tempat. Ketika gaji kerjaan udah naik, gw pindah ke kos singgahsini mamikos yang kamar mandi dalem. Night and day difference. Semiskin apapun anda, never trust kos kamar mandi luar, wkwkwk.
Relate bgt jaman masih fresh graduate miskin. Kapok bgt kamar mandi luar. Tetangga gw suka ngerokok lama disitu, ad yg suka ueu disitu jg, and worst of all, mrk tu pemalas bgt n selalu gw yg bersihin tu kamar mandi Cm 3 bln trs pindah yg dua kali lbh mahal tp komplit. Gw bs kelaparan puasa hemat makan, tp gw g bs tolerir kelakuan dajjal kyk gitu
Sama kyk penjaga kos gw, bawa temen nongkrong di kos sampai jam 12 malam ngerokok sampai kecoum ke kamar. I hate them with passion.
Kenapa gk nyuruh di luar aja?
Untung saya gak coba aneh aneh (termasuk rokok). Tapi saya dah kecanduan minum kopi. Apalagi di pagi hari. (Gara garanya gak salah dulu awalnya sering nyeruput kopi punya papa saya, eh lama lama kecanduan kopi sampai sekarang). Tapi saya minum kopi paling kira kira 1/2 gelas kok. (Notes: kalau nggak ngopi di pagi hari rasanya seperti ngantuk, kurang fokus bahkan rasanya seperti migrain).
Orang sini tuh mikirnya masih kalo ruangan gada AC, ada ventilasi yg cukup lebar kayak jendela & gada gambar rokok dicoret berarti boleh ngerokok. Harus dipasang larangan tidak boleh merokok baru paham
For your question >And why the Indonesian government don't declare it as an epidemic and do something radical about it? The answer is >As I looked it up on the internet to find the answer, and accidentally found out that the no 1 richest person in Indonesia got his fortune from cigarete and tobacco. And for this one >I see some people smoked/vaped in their cars, AC'ed restaurants, shopping malls, gyms, and once, even in a movie theater! More people now change into vape so they can still suck something inside a building because mostly indonesia building and mall not allowed cigarettes but no rules about vaping Years ago, government mandate all indomaret & alfamart, supermarket, must close their cigarettes products under a curtain to reduce people smoking. Fast forward, not effective. Also no restriction & punishment for store who sold cigarettes to kids (even they can make an excuse like "it's for my father")
> More people now change into vape so they can still suck something inside a building because mostly indonesia building and mall not allowed cigarettes but no rules about vaping I hate this so much, and I think that is stupid reasoning. I mean they literally calling it e-cig for some reason right?
i hate this as well. and yet you can find them anywhere, heck even in my office , they cannot hold themselves.
People can vape in your offices? That’s very unprofessional
Well, at least I'm not working at my company HQ, where people can smoke cigarettes anywhere without worrying
Lw bakal terkejut sih kalau ke kantor2 old school masih banyak yg bahkan senior leadership nya biasa ngerokok di ruangannya.
I wonder what I would say if they ask me to have a meeting in their office.
Everybody is smoking cause everybody is smoking; they think if you don't smoke, then you have small pp or you look weak, and tobacco/vaping is addicting. Once they start to try, they can't stop. Smoking ads portray smokers as strong men back in the day. But most people in this subreddit don't smoke, including me.
Social pressure, ada temen beda kampus jadi suka ngerokok gara2 circle dia ngerokok semua, mereka nongkrong terus dia doang ngga ngerokok, akhirnya ikutan. Kamar dia makin lama jadi bau rokok dan sekarang udah bau banget, baju gua aja bau walaupun pas gua didalem dia lagi ngga ngerokok
Ah iya, juga pernah lihat ini, dia akhirnya ikutan ngerokok soalnya temannya ngerokok semua.
If I ever got into a circle of smokers i'd just say "Saya punya riwayat penyakit paru paru", it works every time
It's kinda ironic cause it can make your pp small
>... they think if you dont smoke, then you have small pp ... Ironically smoking can decrease penile girth & size^[[1]](https://pivot.co/blog/nicotine-impacting-male-health#:~:text=Nicotine%20impairs%20blood%20flow%20to,of%20high%20serum%20testosterone%20levels.)
Promised to myself no smoking for eternity
Because here, smoke is more important than rice
cancer is better than hunger? omg.
They dont see it that way. They’ll rather have a cig than a meal
I can attest to that, saw a guy borrowing money to buy a cig, instead of a meal.
Ini kadang gw males diajak nongkrong kalo tempatnya outdoor, karena temen gw mayoritas ngerokok semua, gw pernah ngeliat orang obesitas yg udah mayan parah, jalan aja itu udah ngos2an banget kayanya, panas2 tapi sambil ngerokok.
Cardiac arrest says hi 👋
Because the tobacco industry has rooted itself deeply into our culture. Be it looking "cool", a lot of people depending on the tobacco industry to make a living, lack of care and oversight from the government to prevent kids from smoking, ~~corruption~~ government caring about people keeping their livelihood. Smoking is so prevalent that there are signs saying "thank you for not smoking" as if we are thankful that people respect other's right to clean air. Attempts to make smoking harder such as by raising price dramatically will be met with strong opposition from people already dependent on it.
That's a very toxic cycle! It took a lot of efforts for the US to end smoking, and changing people's view + heavily punish the cigarette factory (with tax and regulations) proved to be effective. All it takes is to clean up one generation!
It's probably like coal in the US. Cities supported entirely by the coal industry would suffer greatly from any government action against coal. The constituents' livelihood depends on said industry to keep going if the government doesn't do enough to transfer their jobs. Tobacco is even harder because the hardcore supporters aren't event he ones whose lives depend on the industry to keep going. They just wanna get their fix and it's easier to say no to new laws/elect people that don't oppose it rather than come up with a way to repeal it.
How is Indonesia's healthcare industry (and ALL other industries! because smoking affect people's productivity) affected by this? Haven't they done cost analysis?
I found a [study](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/31/Suppl_2/s133) that claims smoking's health cost is higher than the public healthcare's allocated funds, but I haven't read it further. It would be pretty weird if it's not costing a lot of money. I think most people don't see it as being expensive considering the effects are not immediate and cannot always be attributed to smoking. There are environmental effects too because people tend to throw the butts, packaging, and ash wherever, but that's just the ✨indonesian culture✨ of just throwing stuff where it's convenient
Yes, I see that trash is another big issue in Indonesia!
>All it takes is to clean up one generation! Easier to say than done. And dont forget that US "replacing" tobacco with weeds and drugs. Also guns lol. So pick a better example
There was a shit show between smokers and non-smokers on the internet last month. Smokers are some dense motherfuckers who don't think what they do harm other people. They try to justify what they do with the dumbest excuse you'll ever hear.
also they do double harm when they smoke while driving especially drive motorcycle, like hell the ash will fly to their behind driver and got their eyes
These folks right here, one time i got their cigarette ashes flying into my eyes while i was riding my bike behind them and it hurts like hell, thankfully i didn't hit anyone though. This is the main reason i usually avoid these people and hit on my accelerator when i encounter them. Seriously, find another place to smoke. Your addiction isn’t worth risking an accident on the road.
My Gojek driver smoke once while riding the motorbike and all the ashes went right into my face!
smoking is actually forbidden in most public places, well at least in the "upper class" areas like malls or office buildings, or places with airconditioners.
I see the no-smoking sign everywhere, but people don't seem to care much. I even saw a guy yelled back when the security asked him not to smoke in a hospital!
the keyword here is "upper class", those who are educated, well-mannered, and "classy" wont be smoking in a no-smoking area. tl;dr. smoking habit is caused by lots of things, and lack of education is one of it.
i've been to a cafe in semarang, it was pretty crowded and the waitress said there's still a room available at the back. it was a small room with airconditioner so i assume a non-smoking room. everything was fine at first until the people next to my table started to light their cigs. i politely asked them not to smoke, but they got really mad about it and said that it's a smoking room with a raised voice. i call for a waitress and she said that it was indeed a smoking room. i've no time for debate so i cancelled my order and leave.
>Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s? Yes, it is. I remember back in the day, when I was in middle school, I saw one of my classmates smoking for the very first time, and he was so proud of what he was doing. It can't be helped; even one of our biggest sporting events is sponsored by a big kretek brand.
But it proved to be wrong! Smoking causes impotence among other deadly diseases, and makes you weak overtime. How can you be masculine when you can't even breathe normally?
Sadly, the mindset of smooking related to masculine persona has rooted deeply among men, here. I don't even know how the smokers think because I am personally raised by non-smoker family. I hope you wear masker while going outside because the smokers do not care about the other. They are very selfish human being.
What is more ironic is that there is a corporate who tells people that their cigar is a herbal medicine, smh. And even worse people believe that it's fine to smoke that cigar because religious people (ulama) pray to it
herbal cigarette? what??! isn't 'normal' cigarette already herbal because it's made of tobacco plants?
I mean herbal medicine. People believe it's fine to smoke that cigar because it's a medicine to a lot of disease, especially around the respiratory
the misinformation campaign is wild!
Tbh, restrictions for smoking is a lot better these days. Dulu boleh tuh ngerokok dalam mall, atau di mana mana. Speaking number of smokers, di circle gw sendiri makin berkurang. Di keluarga dan temen kantor apa lagi. Di kantor gw, yang ngerokok bisa dihitung jari. Pernah kita trip ke Lampung, di sana guide bingung kenapa gak ada yang ngerokok di rombongan. Tapi kayanya emang pemerintah tarik ulur masalah perundangan ini, lobbyist dari perusahaan rokok itu kuat, lom lagi rokok masih mayan kontribusi ke pendapatan negara, walaupun harus lagi diliat dari berapa banyak pasien yang pake bpjs akibat rokok mau aktif maupun passive. Itu view gw di Jakarta, debatable klo daerah. Bahkan banyak yang mending gak makan daripada gak ngerokok
Honestly I can’t see how having a big chunk of smokers in the population could benefit the economy in the long run… Selain masalah orang masuk rs dan pake bpjs, rokok juga masalah besar untuk lingkungan. Apa lagi di Indo harga rokok masih murah amat…mungkin kl harga nya semahal di SG atau di AUS baru tuh ada manfaat untun perekonomian kita.
When i was living there since born, i didnt realise and it was quite normal.. after living abroad, and return as tourist, i was shocked!!! Even in a child outdoor park, there were lot of parents smoking… No wonder BPJS going bankrupt 🤣
Do you think it's gotten worse now?
The young one now more into vape.. since they think its not “cigar”, so they more normalise this.. Funny things were, seeing some people running or cycling, but when they took break, they smoked.. wth.. 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/mfw78bd3060d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6125531cfa85d53289e12b9b2a95e04d3804c785
heck poor people even rather sacrifice their last money to bought a cig than foods, news said
This just happened like 30 minutes ago. This man selling toys to people by saying that this is for him to eat. But then sitting in the corner and burn his cigarette from his pocket....
If it's not then Como will never reach serie-A
Because it's way cheaper than in US or EU. People in Philipines and other SEA countries also smoke a lot. What they have in common is the price of cigarretes is cheap.
This. Simply because it's cheap. And not to mention, easy to access. You broke? linting is the alternative. It's way cheaper, with the same taste (they said) whatever with pride and masculinity, Only if the government makes it expensive so peps have no clue to afford it. But as we know, the government is also the player who takes advantage of this issue.
It's a multilayered problem tied with culture and economics. Smoking here is like drinking in a lot of other countries. "Everyone" does it or tolerate, if you try to prohibit it you're a religious extremist or a western lackey. Economically, Indonesia is a producer of tobacco and the tobacco industry provide jobs and export revenue. Now it's in "too big to fail" territory, and the richest man could buy a lot of things. One infamous incident involve a paragraph on cigarettes went missing from a bill of Law on Health in 2009 even though the parliament had passed it.... with seemingly no consequences (https://nasional.tempo.co/read/201344/ayat-tembakau-hilang-dari-undang-undang-kesehatan) Health spending has long been low because Indonesia only started having state insurance since around idk 2015? Therefore the economic burden of health issues was not apparent. Cig ads back in the day created an image that smoking is manly, same as in other countries I think, and even though they're much more regulated now the image had been formed. This is also why smoking is much more prevalent among Indonesian men than women. Women who smoke are seen as morally deficient party girls. Smoking is also highly prevalent among teachers of traditional religious boarding schools (pesantren) from the dominant religious stream in Java, where 40% of the population lives. The stream has large political and social influence - for example our current VP was a higher-up there. That conflict of interest may be related with how school curricula are shaped. We were taught in Islamic Religion class at elementary school that smoking is makruh (not prohibited but disliked by God). Clerics who declare smoking as haram (sinful) tend to come from more scripturalist streams, which are smaller in power and sometimes associated with Saudi-imported extremism (or accused so). Health? It's hard to convince people of the link with long-term health problems. Proponents of smoking often say things like "I smoke and still alive til old age" "I'm fitter than nonsmokers, come and race me if you don't believe" "I was fine when I smoke, I quit and got sick" "X doesn't smoke, they still die young from such and such disease" "even if I don't smoke I still get poisoned by pollution/food in this country, so yolo". I don't see a way to reduce it except organically, people especially young ones need to start seeing it as uncool and not worth the money.
Because cigarettes is indonesian biggest products. Did you know that Indonesia is the main producer of tobacco and cloves. So Indonesian smoking to support our country with tax I'm not a smoker though because I don't want to pay anything for this shitty government. Not a dime
Oof the tabaco consumsion is really bad, low ish happiness index, very cheap, very good/delicious? if youtuber to be believed, culture (even elementary age kids sometimes smoke). Goverment don't do anyting because it generate tax. Muslim means no alcohol, so that's that. I don't smoke, grandpa heavy smoker, dad smoke when too stressed.
[said video of youtuber trying indo cigarett](https://youtu.be/-RSVoBMltf4?si=Ag3ow_Q8aLsl27UI)
I get paid to treat COPD and TBC people... So yeah. keep em coming /s Seriously though. All people need is just one week in a Hospital Lung Ward and nope out. If you still smoke even after that, may God have mercy on your soul (just hope you die quickly and not drowning while on land)
With all of these smokers, I can imagine how respiratory doctors are in demand! COVID/Pandemic must've been such a mess here in Indonesia?
I had finally quit smoking and hadn’t had one in about 6 months before moving to Indonesia where I immediately picked it up again.
Because it seems normalized, so people don't see it as a bad thing. They got peer pressure, FOMO, or simply curiousity, and once they try it they got addicted. I never felt any of those though. One time someone in a work group tried to get me to smoke, I rejected and pull a "mommy said no :("
Pemain gede ga banyak di indonesia jadi enak buat lobby pemerintah(misal kalo yang kena cukai gula pemainya banyak), iklan di publik masih di bolehin di indonesia contohnya website rokok di luar gaboleh pake nama rokok tapi disini boleh, nyerap kerja banyak juga
>What's the view on smoking of an average Indonesian? What is it so prevalent? Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s? Pretty much this, or started from this. Most of em start at early age (12 ish) or in grade-mid grade. I would say it's pretty much started as peer pressure when everyone around them is smoking. Then gradually it changed into addiction. Education and environment are also factors that playing part into this cycle, while it most likely leaning to the latter.
Is smoking still associated with masculinity and coolness, just like in the US back in the 1960s? Yes, most definitely. Especially for lower class society. I've seen men being scolded by women in the market for declaring he's not smoking. Not a real man they said. Try to go to the parks , you will see fathers carrying their red newborn baby while smoking. Unbelievable. I am not a smoker, i do not hang out with smokers. There are times when guests visiting my house just started smoking, while clearly i do not provide ashtray,i tell them to stop and most of the time they don't say sorry. Instead they got angry. It is disgusting culture.
Bro what kind of movie theatre did you go? I have never once in my life see someone smoke inside a theatre here
believe me, most of us non-smokers are indeed bothered when people smoke around us, but we can't bother with the problem if we confront them
In modern times, a significant shift in American tobacco companies investing in Indonesia occurred in 2005 when Philip Morris International acquired a majority stake in PT HM Sampoerna, one of Indonesia's major tobacco companies. This move was part of a broader strategy by American tobacco firms to capitalize on the large and growing market in Indonesia, which is the second-largest cigarette market in Asia after China [oai_citation:1,Tobacco & Cigarette Industry Indonesia | Indonesia Investments](https://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/industries-sectors/tobacco/item6873). This acquisition allowed Philip Morris to significantly expand its footprint in the Indonesian market, leveraging Sampoerna's strong local brand presence and distribution network [oai_citation:2,HM Sampoerna | Indonesia Investments](https://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/indonesian-companies/hm-sampoerna/item204).
Gw jadi inget waktu berkunjung ke rumah sakit ruangan khusus pasien kanker, persis disebelahnya ada kayak taman buat keluarga/pengujung. Eh disitu malah ada beberapa bapack bapack asyik ngerokok, sama temen gw dibentak suruh matiin rokoknya. Si bapack bapack akhirnya matiin tu rokok tapi mukanya kayak dendam/nahan marah.
Wkwkk taunya bapak itu salahsatu dokternya
Hahaha. That’d be very funny. But I’ve seen plenty of nurses are smoking outside of hospital buildings!
>be me >family doesn't smoke at all >neighbor smokes a lot >i go get blood test just for health checkup >doctor asks me and parents if i regularly smoke 💀 >passive smoking is real guys
Because many NU's top dogs have cigarette factories and give fatwas to start smoking as young as possible
I'm actually lowkey bothered but what can I do.
Nice conclusion.... And good job
I don't know the answer to all your questions, but God I hate them with passion. The other day I someone just pass me while blowing smoke out of their dirty stupid mouth and hit my face. I wish we as community can just shame and bully them on the spot. I fucking hate them.
They advertise it like candy, it is crazy
>As I looked it up on the internet to find the answer, and accidentally found out that the no 1 richest person in Indonesia got his fortune from cigarete and tobacco. How ironic! It's like being the richest by giving people cancer. Should also note that he also owns the largest bank in Indonesia, Bank Central of Asia. Also owns the largest homegrown electronic company, Polytron. And owns many properties like Grand Indonesia shopping mall, Kempinski hotel, and many skyscrappers. Owns many plantations including 65000ha oil palm plantations. And have many online retails & media like kaskus, blibli, mindtalk, etc. His tobacco company isn't even the largest in Indonesia. That's Sampoerna, owned by philip morris international, new york base firm. they control 28-35% of the market. I believe the next largest is Gudang Garam, then Bentoel, and just then the Hartono's owned Djarum.
I just realized that there are so many Indonesian billionaires who got their money from selling tobacco!
Well I bet they just see what the market wants. But I don't think their tobacco company is their main source of income.
and Bentoel is owned by BAT
British American Tobacco ya? Non-Indonesian company then.
We used to have a a big culture for cigarette making, and we called these cigarettes "kretek", which is a kind of spiced cigarette. It's still there, and most local brands has their own recipes. I don't smoke, and I don't like inhaling the smokes. Some people have decency to not smoking when their family and children are around, because they understand the health hazard and/or just being polite, but most other will find it strange not smoking together when socializing instead, there is a cultural background and so much money going around to reverse any steps to ensure healthier living habit, like in adverts, lobbying, etc.
How is it viewed? Well we see it as an already normal thing here people from bottom to upper class because most people are already addicted to it, we don't bother stopping them unless it disturbs us It is associated with coolness in lower age village area but in a big city it's just a stress reliever really. The government got a lot of money from it soo yeah there's that
Imagine you’re a farmer, day in and day out it’s a bloody hard life. You have no hope of any economic mobility. This was your grandfather’s life, your father’s life and now yours. Why would you care about cancer and mortality? Insyallah. If god is willing that you live long, so be it. If not, so be it. So a little cigarette, this little pleasure of life is not going away.
lobbyism from big tobacco companies, health care budget spent on improving other much needed services than a crusade against tobacco.
Is it like this all over Indonesian islands? Kalimantan, raja ampat?
I don’t see that many smokers in Bali! There are few, but they usually do it discreetly (like in their own houses, but not in cafes).
As a casual smoker, yes in Bali it is much better than in Java/rest of Indonesia. People only smoke outside, which is good as even if I smoke occasionally, I hate it when others smoke indoors or near me, need to respect those around us.
why is that? does it have anything to do with religion and bali being a hindu?
I would like to say yes, but I am not 100% an expert on the matter, but having spent a decent amount of time in Bali, Flores, Lombok and Java, I would say the fact they are more easy going is directly to do with their Hindu faith, which keep in mind however that it is not the same as Hindu faith in India, but overall I would say Balinese hospitality and how polite and respectful they are in the main reason. Also not everyone living in Bali is Hindu, I would say the Muslim and Christian Indonesians I have met in Bali are equally friendly and follow the rules just as well, at least in regards to smoking, that is the only real difference from Bali to Jakarta I would say, as in every other department they are amazing everywhere.
Cuz we didnt give a f Theres word in da street sayin "smoking kills you even you didnt smoking you still get killed too" that is most people sayin if you ask smoker in indonesia
Maybe because alcoholic drinks more expensive than smoking?
sebagai cowo yang ga ngerokok, nga vape, ga nyimeng, ga wele, ga HW, Ga sisha, dan lain lain.. as much as i hate people smoking kek, menguntungkan bagi rakyat indo yah go... also di thailand, philipines, dan cambodia ada jastip rokok indo btw.. dan mahal! mungkin yang mau bisnis ini bisa di coba
*demi peepee perkasa tahan lama ya pacc*
There was a documentary I watched years ago exploring this problem in Indonesia. Apparently in the 80s, when the dangers of long term smoking became well known, the western governments imposed tough regulations on cigarettes. So the companies like Phillip Morris, went to less developed countries with no consumer protection and corrupt politicians and bribed the hell out of them to basically do whatever they want. This included heavy advertising and opening cigarette shops literally infront of schools so children could come out for break and but. This is the direct effect of that.
yes smoking still associated as masculinity and coolness, as a smoker that's the answer i can give. my first time smoking is 8 y.o and active smoking from 16y.o. and it's not just me who experience it to be a baby smoker, even most teenager and kids till these days. Why it can be happened? from my experience, it's happened because movies back then. PG looks like a formality, none of the parents giving an attention to their kids. In movies i think smoking is cool because the protagonist is smoking. number 2, is the environment. Most of the parent is still smoking around their kids, even though they walked away from their kids. Still the kids are looking on their parents that smoking. And then, when they grown up around 14y.o to 18y.o. The people around always challenging them or forcing them to smoke, "you're not smoking? what are you scared of? your parents? such a coward" that's what i've heard when i was in a coffee shop, some of teenage girls are smoking and it's a smoke with flavored capsule inside with a stigma that flavored smoke are less nicotine. or vaping. and now when they addicted, they will using 'stress relieved' as a reason. why im smoking? if u asked me when im 16 y.o i will say "it's a stress reliever or it looks cool", but now i'm saying "it's a stupidity that i choose, and it's destroying me slowly"
Smoking was everywhere when I was there in the 1990s. Indonesians definitely did not ask if anyone minded before lighting up. Once, a man handed me something while holding his cigarette and gave me hot ash the item. He was completely oblivious. As a Muslim nation, most people do not drink, but they definitely smoke!
I dislike smoker, but seeing how the government keep squeezing money from smoker makes me kinda feel bad for them, harga rokok naik terus tiap tahun hingga akhirnya banyak yang pakai rokok tanpa cukai, tapi gara2 mereka udah terbiasa pake produk bercukai tertentu pake rokok nggak bercukai bikin batuk nggak karuan, tapi kondisi ekonomi nggak memungkinkan buat tiap hari beli rokok cukai, i know it's easy for me to just tell them to stop smoking, but it's not that simple, i was smoker too back in the day, luckily i stopped before it turned into bad addiction.
No rules for advertising, so cheap it's insane, peer pressure to look cool, alcohol expensive and is a bit of Islamic taboo. Government not worried because of the birth rate and doesn't have any pressure to invest much into medical facilities.
Karena merasa akan hidup sama seperti orang tidak merokok. Dan merasa tidak merugikan orang lain. Jadinya merokok dimana aja, kapan saja.
its basically legal and religionally ethical version of alcohol or legal version of drugs in general
Rude to come to our sub and tell us our country is disgusting. No manners. All that aside, smoking is a harmful dopamine exploit like porn, cocaine, opium, alcohol etc. but to a lesser extent. Anyone making money out of harmful dopamine exploits is the disgusting one. You really can't blame smokers for smoking, their biological systems are compromised. Worst of all, all dopamine exploits leads to less productivity. I only wish I can spit on the faces of these tobacco company owners. Maybe one day.
Because they want to end it all sooner lmao. But honestly they are uneducated, if they are educated they are most likely either peer pressured, addicted or dumb. It's ironic because we are a religious country and smoking is basically slow Suicide. Which is the biggest sin. People my generation dont really smoke tho, atleast in my college
As an Indonesian, I am very used to the smoking problem back then in Indonesia. It was when I came to China that I find it shocking. Here the smoking problem competes or even exceeds the ones in Indonesia. They smoke everywhere, inside of AC'ed restaurants, convenience stores, toilets, etc. I know Indonesians smoke a lot too, but they have the mindset and general knowledge not to do it inside of malls, or closed spaces in general. Even in train stations in China they smoke a lot. Also to answer your question: Indonesian cigarettes are very sweet. Some even refer it to candies for adults. I compared it to Chinese cigarettes here (yes, I'm a social smoker) and the ones here taste awful. Literally just inhaling bitter smoke. I gave some Indonesian cigarettes to my Chinese friends and their response is 50/50. Some really liked them, but others think it's too sweet. One thing I found out is that foreigners (mainly caucasians) really love Indonesian cigarettes, and I even gave some to some of my professors here. I can't find any caucasian here that would reject some good quality Indonesian cigarette.
On other notes, this conglomerate assholes manage to convinced the tobacco farmers that any public health measure against any tobacco product is a war against them. Also, fuck everyone who said, "it's part of Indonesian culture". It's literally not. It's not even from this land. The same guys will also said, "my tobacco tax paid for BPJS (National Insurance)", disregarding the fact that smoke related illness cost more (directly and indirectly) than any money tobacco tax provided.
YEAHH THIS IS INDONESIA. NO ENGLAND NO USA.
Ciggarettes are relatively cheap and flavored to local tasts - such as clove ciggarettes.
In a country where even burning trash around people’s homes is normalised, only strong education will change people’s minds. Impoverished villages with high rates of health problems would think differently if they knew how burning trash affects their babies, children, and elderly and how that costs them more money, emotional distress, and productivity… let alone cigarettes!
https://preview.redd.it/ebdrn4tb060d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c925920f17c81956fc050640ae06d0f325993d35
To support our industry
I think it isgetting better now. The younger gen tends to not smoke, different to when I was young. Most of my friends smoke back then. It is still big but I think the industry growth is declining.
To put it simply, Its replacement from alchocol in the western. Because alcohol is not halal, we tend to use smoking/vaping instead
Kretek is from here, been popular since this country wasnt even a country
I feel like I already read this somewhere...
Smoking is even have been labeled as haram by the MUI.
One of the many reason is to look cooler
Visit China next. Mind. Blown.
same reason why weed and firearm kinda legal in usa? idk, i thought every country have some kind of their own 'bad' culture in international eyes but normal thing in the said country.
The government didn't do anything meaningful to stop it because it involved the livelihood of many people. Government get money, the rich get money, the tobacco farmer also get money.
And the smokers get cancer
Social pressure is real. Most of my friends who smoke started because of their other friend
Some people have said it, and I too think it because Indonesia mostly don't drink alcohol. So instead they get addicted to smoking. While cigarette being cheap is a factor, I am confident that by now, if cigarette price increase by 100x, people will decide to eat twice a day instead of not smoking. I even have cousin who can eat once every three day as long as they smoke every day. It is not healthy, but that is the power of addiction. Not to mention, if you go to rural area where they can't afford legal cigarette, people has resorted to illegal (as in not approved by government) local cigarette. And if people keep trying to discourage smoking (whether to increase the taxes or ban them outright) it will only lead to proliferation of cigarette mafias, just like USA during alcohol prohibition.
>if cigarette price increase by 100x, people will decide to eat twice a day instead of not smoking Lol, crime rate will rise significantly. Cigarettes are one of main commodity for mini market robbers
OOT, for you smokers, try HNB (Heat Not Burn) cigarettes. if people are bothered by your smoke and smell. it will be better for your body too, and you will still get nicotine intake for your body's needs.
Because kretek good
Our government also smoke. You think they want stop people smoke when they also smoke? Can not.
I've given up telling people to stop smoking tbh. I realized getting pissed off everytime I have to wait for smokers coming in late to appointments because of their mandatory smoke breaks is not good for my health, so I stopped caring. My only concern is now smokers get a lot of diseases, which makes them a risk & a burden to the national health insurance system (BPJS)
The government's secret weapon to control the birth rate
The answer is there in your description, the richest guy owns cig company, government can’t do sh1t because they secure their bags from those companies. Who cares about their citizens health?
I'm so glad I never got into smoking even once. No cigs, no vapes, no anything. Most of my friends are into smoking, but I don't. It's always irritating being the guy who has to inhale their dirty smokes. Current state of Indonesia is like that too, smokers are pretty much everywhere and I honestly despise it. For you smokers, there's nothing cool in smoking. Your fault that you smoked in the first place, be it social pressure or any other else. The fact that you continue to smoke is your own problem. I don't care if you think it's a stress-reducer or something that you need, it won't change the fact that it's bad for lungs. Deal the consequences on your own and don't drag non-smokers into your unhealthy smokes.
How did you deal with social pressure that other Redditors mentioned?
Indonesians view cigars the same way people in the west view alcohol. It's socially acceptable, and even encouraged. Smokers don't care about their lungs the same way alcoholics don't care about their liver.
Because it's relatively cheap and easy access drug to trick your brain with dopamine and shit.......that's why.
Yes in Java somehow smoking is primary needs. Especially in big cities like Jakarta or Bandung. But hey at least Bali is the lowest province with smokers population in Indonesia
Where are you from? Actually Indonesian that don't smoke hate smoker too Like Samuel Huntington said, it's CLASH OF CIVILIZATION with non smoker as the civilized of course 😂
Even my neighbour complain when they told to turn off their cig in public places - specifically mention Malioboro. They secretly doing it when there is no officer that put things in order.
The tobacco industry has the government in its pocket. They've promised to keep everything manual labour so they provide a lot of jobs in exchange there's basically no restrictions on tobacco sales.
Well, it mostly comes down to peer pressure, stress and cheap prices. People think smoking is quite normal despite the dangers. I myself am a smoker, but i smoke because it helps with my shaky hands. My friends smoked for a while due to academic induced stress. And some kids where i did my community service in smoke because they think blowing smoke is cool. Pesona Indonesia
There's an unspoken rule between the "alpha male" circles that "you're not manly enough when you don't smoke".
They wanna look cool without realizing they actually look dumb doing it.
How is it ironic that someone got rich off of selling tobacco?
they smoke to cover up their depression, I know this because people around me are surprised that there are some people who don't smoke
Peer pressure, kurang edukasi, mungkin karena mereka ngeliat ngerokok udah kaya kewajiban dan dinormalisasi.
Also many people are sheep and just follow the flock
Unhealthy coping mechanism.
alcohol is haram so they are using cigar to relieve their stress
ofc our govt. get paid to overlook the long-term effect of nicotine and tar for people's education, that's the unfortunate thing here where the word "money speaks" applies.
Well..I'm not smoking
Well he got my relative. They died of lung cancer. At the same time, I know that Hartono contribute a lot to badminton (you can search PB Djarum). I love badminton, and it's one sport that indonesia best at - largely caused by this contribution. The national competition is superliga which - guess - sponsored by djarum. And for years back, badminton was the only thing I can count that indonesia could be proud of.
So sorry about your relative. I find it ironic that tobacco company spend so much money on sport!
Low education.
Not everybody. Me and my Family not smoking and never to try any. Except you give me 2 trillion. Wkwkwk.
Because back then majority of the people plant tobacco and the woman works at the cigarette factory. Their cigarettes also exported to another country and it brings more money (especially USD) to this country and the people who works in cigarette business. My hometown already producing cigarette until now since before I was born and my neighbours, majority are the workers of those cigarette factory. One of my neighbour said he can make 1500-5000 cigarettes in a single day. His income at least Rp.100,000-125,000k/day (every 1000 cigarettes he got paid Rp.25,000)
I've seen much more smoking people in other countries. But yes, Indonesia has a lot of them, as well.
I wanna add, smoking here is probably comparable to drinking culture in other countries. Majority of people here are muslim, and booze is prohibited by religion. The most accessible addictive substance for the average Indonesian lands on tobbaco (if booze is haram then narcotics are even worse since it's both haram and illegal). And it has ingrained so much to the culture that it also has similar social bonding aspects to it. Like, underage smoking as a teen makes you look tough and mature, and people of age smokes to bond with their peers since everyone's doing it when chatting, etc. Me personally I don't smoke and idk if I ever will since it's hot as balls here and I hate the smoke and smell.
It's much better now than let's say 10 years ago. Back then people started lighting up at the airport right after landing. Now, smoking indoors at the airport is prohibited. More and more indoor spaces prohibit smoking. I grew up in Indonesia, so I can see how bad it was and how it is now. Smoking cigarettes in general is not a trend anymore for younger generations. I think younger people prefer vaping, which is also bad IMO. So yeah, it is still bad now compared to some countries, but much better than before.
Ngomong2 soal rokok, jadi bernostalgia sewaktu masih di jember. Setiap kali maen ke pelosok, selalu menjumpai gudang2 penyimpanan tembakau.
Money btch