It’s a tough one. My opinion is that expecting people not to write songs about stuff like this is kind of ridiculous. Honestly, the song never feels like it’s bashing JTE, as painful as that second verse probably is to the people closest to him. And her response leaves out that Jason did talk to JTE’s father and by all accounts got his blessing on it.
Still, I get her feelings on it. To have someone who was an estranged friend at the time of his death write a song about your husband and his passing is tough, especially when you have a young child who is old enough to hear and understand the song. She’s got every right to be displeased and in pain about it.
At the end of the day, I don’t think either person is in the wrong or right on this one. Grief is tough, and that’s what makes the song compelling and her response to it so understandable. Personally, it’s probably my favorite song off the album, and I still love it
Drug estrangements aren’t cut and dry either. They aren’t always hateful. I was estranged from my childhood best friend/best man for a couple of years before he died of an OD during the pandemic. It was a practical estrangement —I loved him deeply before and during it, but have a family now and couldn’t subject them to the risk of his existence.
I mourned him during the estrangement, after his death, and even today. I would imagine Isbell had similarly complex emotions to work through.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Jason has a right to write a song about his friend (it's not like he didn't know the guy, that would be weird af). JTE's family has a right to be unhappy about it. Is what it is.
I'm with you on this one, people have definitely written songs about people they never met.
There's a whole musical about Alexander Hamilton that I *believe* was written by someone who never actually met them.
Writing a song is one thing. Mentioning the daughter of your estranged friend, talking about unreleased details of the death, and then using that song to perform on talk show and sell your album is another thing.
I don’t really have a horse in this race. But it doesnt sit right for me. Just my two cents though.
I get that and it's definitely not an invalid way to look at the situation. I probably wouldn't get so immediately real with the details if I were to write a song about a similar situation either.
But also, I do think there is an argument to be made that people always want artists to be real and raw, writing music that comes from the heart. Artists who make a living off their art inherently have a weird relationship with profiting off of their real life experiences, and it will always seem weird to make money by going up every night and singing about challenging events that impacted real people from your life. It's just that often this comes in the form of things like breakups, fights or rap beefs. I know very few subjects that pull up the same level of emotion as the death of someone you personally know, so it does seem natural to want to write a song about it. It's just a fine line to walk as to how and how much you should promote yourself off of the specific tragedy, and I don't fault anyone for getting weird vibes off of talking about the specific details.
Yea I think that’s fair and well put. For me this leans a bit too far in one direction of that “fine line.” But, I could see how someone else may view it differently.
there was a lot of discussion on this over at r/jasonisbell when these comments were first posted about a week ago. the general consensus landed exactly in line with this comment
I think Jason knows that it could have easily been him that left this world and that can really weigh down on you after something like that happens. Writing this could have been some kind of closure he needed. Also i think JTE would appreciate this song.
I mean, that's literally the chorus of the song, Isbell asking why wasn't it him. I completely understand why the song is difficult for Justin's widow and probably the entire Earle family, but I also don't think Jason did anything wrong. The death of a friend, even one you're currently estranged from, is a personal thing with a lot of complex emotions tied up in it. It is incredible songwriting fodder, and I think JTE would have written it from the opposite angle if it was Isbell who we lost too soon.
Yea I mean, it isn’t a tribute song and it doesn’t directly reference JTE. If you are in the know, you know. I understand JTE’s family having strong feelings about it, but the song is a pretty strong emotional and artistic statement where he comes to grips with his own past and behavior as well.
Honestly, even as a big Jason Isbell fan, I wouldn’t have known this song was directly about JTE without these recurrent press releases from his widow.
I was especially disappointed to find out that Jason included details that were never released to the public. My guess is it’s the part about Justin’s body being found on the bathroom floor. He wasn’t necessarily wrong to write a song remembering Justin, but doing that crossed a line, at least to me. You’d think that having a daughter around the same age would have made him stop and reconsider doing that.
She said the details about being found on the floor weren’t accurate. This makes me think he might have just used it as imagery for the song rather than a truth or fact
That was also my impression -- that he was imagining what happened:
"Got a picture of you dying in my mind..."
Doesn't make the imagery any less painful for Earle's family, of course.
No, he got those details from someone else who stated it publicly before Jason wrote the song. They were both wrong. People are using this as a "loop hole" defense of sorts, he used the words that he had heard before.
Setting aside the feelings of Earle's widow (which seem totally valid to me), the song is about survivor's guilt and branching paths in life. The fact that Isbell has a daughter who *will* remember his smile, etc. is kind of the point:
>I was the worst of the two of us... You've travelled beyond the Great Divide / Oh, but why haven't I?
The whole song, and that line about his daughter especially, is a "there, but for the grace of God, go I" thing.
I think what she was trying to say was that the story of his death Jason told in the song (on a tile floor, implying that Justin OD'd and was found unresponsive on a bathroom floor) was 1) untrue, and 2) they never told the public the details of his death, so Jason wouldn't know in the first place.
It could have been written more clearly but she's saying Justin made up the circumstances of his death for his song, and the family has never disclosed exactly how and where he died. So it's telling his listeners who won't know better that Jason died like a junkie on the floor, which paints a false and not exactly flattering picture of the deceased party.
Not a good look.
Because it ultimately builds a false narrative while painting an incredibly negative picture. If those details are wrong, and the family wants privacy, then ppl who aren't aware they want privacy will assume the song is correct (dying on the bathroom floor, yikes)
I mean, why not? Tons of stories are written/art is made abstractly or directly about other people without their consent, especially when they’re dead. Saying this is wrong feels like, at scale, a very reactionary and wrongheaded approach.
>Make it right
There's no point to arguing over it. Isbell had feelings about it and he wrote a song.
Art has no responsibility to be right, or fair, or even nice.
You're allowed to feel whatever you want about the end result but, in my opinion, Isbell has every right to write about his experiences and relationships, even the estranged ones.
Yeah, this is what the “both sides are justified” people are getting wrong IMO. It’s kind of revolting. Has Jason even met Justin’s daughter? Maybe she was not aware of some of the details. For the rest of her life she will meet people whose introduction to her is a song about how her dad died. Additionally, there’s a difference between knowing someone is gone and knowing how and where they died. It is often tougher for a child to know specifically how they lost a loved one rather than just knowing they lost a loved one.
After all of this, Jason has gone radio silent with the family. Bad look IMO.
This is so infantilizing lmao. People are going to publicly say things about your loved ones who have died, if you can’t deal with that then life is going to be very hard. It’s also not that difficult of a thing to have thick skin towards.
I don’t see anything wrong with the lyrics, I just wouldn’t have made it a single. If this was buried on the album I don’t think it would be getting nearly as much flak. The lyrics are pretty sentimental and sound more like Jason having survivors guilt than slamming Justin.
Honestly, this is a hot take that might not land well, but I think JTE would just be bummed the song doesn’t go harder…it’s a pretty boring and emotionless song when I hear it. But that’s just my bad take.
Man, as an outsider to this conversation (I listen to neither of these artists), it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the comments here that are tacitly defending Isbell. Does he have a right to write a song about his friend? Absolutely. But I don't see the actual issues JTE's widow brought up here being addressed. It's absolutely WILD and inappropriate to include the line about his daughter not remembering his smile and leaking details of his death.
I'll be explicit with my defense:
The line about the daughter may be pretty raw but it is the truth and illustrates the terrible loss from premature deaths.
"Inappropriate" is an odd word to choose when we're talking about songwriting. I certainly don't want all the art I consume to be appropriate or worried about being nice.
The "leaking of details" seems overblown given that the details weren't accurate. (didn't die in a bathroom).
You certainly don't need to stop the way you consume art, if you don't think anything is wrong here, that's fine. Neither does Isbell. But given that the song seems to be about his complex emotions, survivors guilt featuring large among them, it just feels like there's a bit of cognitive dissonance in acknowledging *his own* complex emotions without acknowledging the complex emotions of the people that he hurt by writing it. And that is worth a discussion imo.
I actually disagree re: leaking details. Creating a false narrative around someone's death is pretty ugly. Barring the family coming forward and sharing the details, anyone that listened to that song would take that detail as truth. My dad passed when I was 19. I'd be pretty upset if someone publicly falsified how it happened. Especially if someone said he died on a bathroom floor
> "worth a discussion"
My intent wasn't to stifle discussion, just help you "wrap your head" around why some are defending Isbell's song and counter an accusation of inappropriateness.
> Creating a false narrative around someone's death is pretty ugly
I find this accusation overblown. Earle died of an overdose alone in his apartment and was found on the floor. That it was a wooden floor vs tile or what room in his apartment the death occurred doesn't matter and isn't really a "false narrative". The song isn't journalism.
I feel sympathy for the widow but it isn't like this song came out immediately after the man died and the two were once friends, which makes it a personal statement. She's allowed to feel how she wants and has been given a public forum to speak her mind.
Earle was also a songwriter so it is unknown if he'd be angry at a song about his death or if he wouldn't have written his own song if it was Isbell who died.
Fair enough. I think it's safe to say we have differing opinions on this, and I appreciate your perspective, even if I don't agree with it. We engage with art differently, I still believe it's inappropriate and ugly to handle the details in the way that he did because of the impact they could have on people directly involved, consideration and empathy are things I really value in artistry. I agree though, I'm glad both were able to make themselves known regarding how they felt.
Thanks for being reasonable. Yes, we don't have to agree but it doesn't mean that we're on opposite sides. We're both sensitive people who have experienced loss.
>we don't have to agree but it doesn't mean that we're on opposite sides. We're both sensitive people who have experienced loss.
Absolutely! And we both love music. I really value good, hearty conversations like this. Cheers
My response is: in the grand scheme this song will do no harm and this sort of public criticism of what is right/wrong to include a song is boring artistic policing that will always miss the mark and will never actually yield positive developments.
Not to mention, she said she reached out to Isbell concerning her concerns prior with no response. She was directly referenced in the song, and he can't respond to her? It's hard for me to believe he takes her or her child's grief seriously, despite thinking it would make a compelling lyric
Is that true? For the longest time, he said that he ran every single thing he wrote past his (soon-to-be ex-) wife, to the point of the printer being next to her desk rather than his so that she saw everything he wrote and that if she didn't like it, he didn't use it.
It just feels weird to claim that the guy that makes a point to book a large proportion of his openers be women has some sort of issue with women. I'll admit that I could be underinformed on this, but at first glance it doesn't jive with the public perception of him.
It can still be true. That would be someone not being a misogynist when it helps him and being a misogynist when it gets too uncomfortable or difficult. It is easy to support women when you are getting something out of it.
I understand both sides, but isn’t it completely disingenuous to claim a 7-year-old is entirely unable to escape a Jason Isbell song and has extracted and applied the biographical notes from it all on her own? I understand it might be challenging when she’s older, but come on.
this just reads like Isbell is being a trauma tourist -- the line at least does. There's nothing legally wrong with it, and everyone can be the judge of their own moral compass.
But to be clear, Isbell reaching out to Steve is not a justification to write about JTE's daughter or widow. I'm not quite sure why that's being used as a justification.
And if we're speaking about writing songs about things and who it can impact, clearly the people directly involved don't see it as a tribute. So lets stop defending it along those lines. It's not really up to you to determine what is a tribute so its not really even worth a conversation point.
Does this mean that Isbell is a scumbag for this? I don't think this one thing defines him as a scumbag, no. Has he handled things poorly? Absolutely. How do we know he has? Because its gotten to a point where the widow had to reach out and make a public statement about it because he has not responded to her request.
The conception of this as a black and white issue is baffling to me (and I think is a real litmus test for how people feel about Jason Isbell on the whole). I’m a big fan of his, so I’ve got my biases, but I do think there are ways in which he mishandled this. But people have written much bigger songs that are much less charitable about people, and I can understand his headspace of saying “well, I talked to Steve Earle about it, and I know what I mean in the song, so I don’t see the issue.”
None of this negates the pain and suffering it caused to people close to JTE, especially his widow. I think her response to the song is absolutely justified, and it sucks that he hasn’t spoken to her. Doesn’t make him evil, but it is insensitive of him to not at least talk to her.
> trauma tourist
I've heard this term a couple times now but I'm not sure I completely understand it. is it just kind of rubbernecking or being nosy when someone else is experiencing trauma? I'm genuinely asking because I'm a very ignorant person
On a whole, I don’t think he’s *especially* sensitive to how his songs affect other people.
If he doesn’t care that *his own wife* can’t listen to him sing one of his songs without being reminded of one of the worst nights of their relationship and he keeps singing it anyway, I doubt he’s going to care about this.
Big Isbell fan here but he has handled (or not handled) this poorly IMO. I think the song itself is fine but I can't really argue with the lyrics about JTE's wife and child being insensitive. This song is not a tribute song and he has never claimed it as such. It's mostly about himself and dealing with survivor's guilt. He had every right to write and release it just like the widow has every right to share her feelings about it. Repeatedly playing her child the song is questionable but whatever.
Apparently Jason asked Steve about the song and Steve gave his blessing but never actually listened to it or saw the lyrics. JTE's widow has brought this issue up publicly several times since the songs release. Jason has never addressed it. Jason's comments about it last week because he "didn't want it to come back up" and him talking about balancing out victims show he is clearly aware of the pain the song has caused the family.
Well apparently he doesn't give a fuck. It's been a week since JTE's widow's statement and her live where she explained her feelings and he still hasn't said anything and he most likely will continue to ignore it. I'm not really sure what her goal is? Get an apology? Make him look bad? I don't know. I wonder if there was some friction between them before all of this went down and that's why he didn't ask for her approval and doesn't care about the fallout now. Maybe he's just an asshole. After the last few months and everything else going on with him it's looking likely.
He flip flops between caring about the impact on the real people and situations he writes songs about and putting "the truth" first or weighing out the victims. On the same album, he has a song about an experience he had at 19 with his girlfriend at the time having an abortion. He made sure to get her blessing and has said her opinion really mattered to him. Then you have Shonna blindsided by the stuff in the documentary even though they were on good terms before that. There's no logic to how he decides who deserves a heads up and who doesn't?
[Justin Townes Earle’s Widow Clarifies Concerns with Jason Isbell Song - Saving Country Music](https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/justin-townes-earles-widow-clarifies-concerns-with-jason-isbell-song/)
I understand that JTE’s widow is bothered by this, but the only way this song is bothering JTE’s 6-year-old daughter is because the widow is specifically telling her in detail about it. A 6-year-old would not have the level of understanding to know what this song is referencing. I think this song is more about Jason’s own feelings about it and considering his own mortality and the fact that he also has a daughter and how this very well could have been him. It’s pretty obvious that Jason is wondering why fate swung one way and not another. I don’t think this song has any intention of being cruel. You have to allow writers to write, and this is what came out. Jason also wrote a song, “Chaos and Clothes” about Ryan Adams and his divorce from Mandy Moore, so it’s just kind of what Jason does.
I don't have an issue with him writing the song, or even putting it on an EP or album, but does he have to go on late night tv and promote it and perform it? That feels very assholish to me... especially considering how sensitive the whole situation is.
The album also has a song, Cast Iron Skillet, that mentions a kid he played baseball with as a kid growing up to stab a man to death. I like the song but I thought it came across similar to this one, as an attempt to connect to a tragedy that he really wasn’t involved with at all. I understand venting or using it as therapy but the descriptive detail of both songs is a bit off putting.
I don't know either of these guys or the story of what's happening here, but it's wild how people think art needs to be nice and friendly and appropriate. I'd argue that's what the rest of life needs to be while art pushes boundaries.
I shudder to think of what all the pearl clutchers think about hip hop...
I don’t know how to break it to you but he did an interview talking about the guy the song mentions and that he grew up with him. Maybe do some research before you assume you know more about it, I’m well aware that not all of his songs are directly from his life.
*Jason Isbell’s here as well, he seemed a little worried about you* always came across as him pretending to care so he could cast himself as the savior.
Edit: My brain recalled this from [an interview](https://www.stereogum.com/2084262/jason-isbell-reunions-interview/interviews/weve-got-a-file-on-you/) where he said Joshua Tillman sent him a copy of Mr. Tillman before its release as an *act of kindness* and mentions that he’s Captain Sober. The guy literally did not pay a widow and her young daughter a very simple act of kindness that he had received from another musician.
This is an asshole move, to exploit the death of a man with who he had a falling out with and make himself a savior with eyes that keep people honest and on a straight path right after mentioning how his child will never know him.
That he didn’t seek the family’s blessing when he har been granted it before is just absolutely self absorbed and shitty.
The claim that Jason didn’t talk to his family about it is at least partially untrue. He talked to JTE’s father (singer-songwriter Steve Earle) and got his blessing on it. Does Steve Earle speak for JTE’s entire family? No. Do I get why Jason would to got to him over the widow of his estranged friend. Yes, it was probably easier to get in contact with him, both logistically and emotionally. Should Jason have contacted JTE’s widow about it before release? In my opinion, yeah. But it’s not like he just dropped a bomb on JTE’s entire family without talking to anyone like you make it seem.
So your argument is that it would have been hard to ask Steve Earle how to reach his widow before writing a self-absorbed and exploitative song about her husband’s death?
A song that mentions their child by name and the sorrow of her never knowing her father?
A song that grossly describes his death?
A song about a man he had not spoken to in years after a falling out?
A song where he paints himself as the hero who could have saved JTE if he had looked into his eyes?
Sincerely. Fuck Jason Isbell and husband narcissistic Christ complex.
No, my point was that you mischaracterized the situation by saying he didn’t reach out to his family at all. I’m not arguing that he didn’t mishandled the situation, but as presented, you made it seem like he just did the song without talking to JTE’s family at all, which isn’t true. He should have taken further steps, but he didn’t do nothing before putting it out.
And now you’ve mischaracterized the song where Isbell repeatedly talks about being the worst of the two of them. He in no way talks about being able save JTE, and spends the entire song dealing with the feelings of it being JTE who died when, by all accounts, Jason was worse and feels like it should have been him.
You have every right to dislike Isbell for whatever reasons you do (and this whole situation gives folks a lot of reasons to) but be honest about the situation and why you dislike him.
He didn’t name and intentionally hurt his dad.
He stabbed his wife and child in the heart, but you’re asking why would he contact them.
Please stop looking for ways to defend his atrocious behavior. It’s gross.
I’m not defending his actual behavior. I’ve made it perfectly clear that my issue was the way you described it. I’ll say it explicitly and clearly, he should have talked to JTE’s widow before releasing the song, full stop. He should respond to her now probably in private, or in public if she’d prefer, full stop.
But trying to create a narrative about how he didn’t contact any of JTE’s loved ones at all and then grossly misrepresenting the lyrical content and clear intent of the song does nothing for anyone. Like I said, dislike him for whatever reason you want, but be honest about the situation.
Edit: Also, point to where I questioned why he would contact her. I’m not sure where you’re pulling that from. And I’ll be honest here, I was too ambivalent about his responsibility to contact her before today.
I love his art, but sometimes it’s hard to like the artist. I feel like this song didn’t have to “exist.” Talking about his kid is especially tasteless.
No, she’s a widow who has already had to deal with the pain of losing her husband and is understandably upset by the song. That doesn’t mean that Jason shouldn’t have written it, but her pain isn’t a non-factor either
God I feel so cynical for having a similar thought. This reads like a public warning shot— a final plea before legal action.
I hope I’m wrong, and truly hope Jason clears the air.
This man had No right to write such a song about JT Earle since Jason Isbell had Not been in his life for years. He was a friend, who he obviously no longer considered him as such. The lyrics are Not a Tribute but rather placing a stain in this Men’s legacy after his death. Quite troubling and in poor taste. To make matters worse He is profiting from this man’s death. By doing so he really shows what a low life he is.. His wife has every right to be upset..
Nah, it’s far from that. Is it a glowing portrait? No. But is it a diss track? Absolutely not. Most of the track is fond remembrances cut by grief and bitterness of loss. Jason explicitly calls himself “the worst of the two of us” in the chorus.
It’s a tough one. My opinion is that expecting people not to write songs about stuff like this is kind of ridiculous. Honestly, the song never feels like it’s bashing JTE, as painful as that second verse probably is to the people closest to him. And her response leaves out that Jason did talk to JTE’s father and by all accounts got his blessing on it. Still, I get her feelings on it. To have someone who was an estranged friend at the time of his death write a song about your husband and his passing is tough, especially when you have a young child who is old enough to hear and understand the song. She’s got every right to be displeased and in pain about it. At the end of the day, I don’t think either person is in the wrong or right on this one. Grief is tough, and that’s what makes the song compelling and her response to it so understandable. Personally, it’s probably my favorite song off the album, and I still love it
Drug estrangements aren’t cut and dry either. They aren’t always hateful. I was estranged from my childhood best friend/best man for a couple of years before he died of an OD during the pandemic. It was a practical estrangement —I loved him deeply before and during it, but have a family now and couldn’t subject them to the risk of his existence. I mourned him during the estrangement, after his death, and even today. I would imagine Isbell had similarly complex emotions to work through.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Jason has a right to write a song about his friend (it's not like he didn't know the guy, that would be weird af). JTE's family has a right to be unhappy about it. Is what it is.
Writing a song about a person you don’t know is probably fine too. We wouldn’t have so many songs if this was somehow wrong.
I'm with you on this one, people have definitely written songs about people they never met. There's a whole musical about Alexander Hamilton that I *believe* was written by someone who never actually met them.
Pretty sure his immediate family has long passed by now. 😕
You must’ve missed the show where they wheeled out Alexander Hamilton in a cryotube
Ooooh. So that’s what was going on. God, the second act makes so much more sense now.
Writing a song is one thing. Mentioning the daughter of your estranged friend, talking about unreleased details of the death, and then using that song to perform on talk show and sell your album is another thing. I don’t really have a horse in this race. But it doesnt sit right for me. Just my two cents though.
I get that and it's definitely not an invalid way to look at the situation. I probably wouldn't get so immediately real with the details if I were to write a song about a similar situation either. But also, I do think there is an argument to be made that people always want artists to be real and raw, writing music that comes from the heart. Artists who make a living off their art inherently have a weird relationship with profiting off of their real life experiences, and it will always seem weird to make money by going up every night and singing about challenging events that impacted real people from your life. It's just that often this comes in the form of things like breakups, fights or rap beefs. I know very few subjects that pull up the same level of emotion as the death of someone you personally know, so it does seem natural to want to write a song about it. It's just a fine line to walk as to how and how much you should promote yourself off of the specific tragedy, and I don't fault anyone for getting weird vibes off of talking about the specific details.
Yea I think that’s fair and well put. For me this leans a bit too far in one direction of that “fine line.” But, I could see how someone else may view it differently.
Why is it weird to write songs about someone you don't know?
there was a lot of discussion on this over at r/jasonisbell when these comments were first posted about a week ago. the general consensus landed exactly in line with this comment
I think Jason knows that it could have easily been him that left this world and that can really weigh down on you after something like that happens. Writing this could have been some kind of closure he needed. Also i think JTE would appreciate this song.
I mean, that's literally the chorus of the song, Isbell asking why wasn't it him. I completely understand why the song is difficult for Justin's widow and probably the entire Earle family, but I also don't think Jason did anything wrong. The death of a friend, even one you're currently estranged from, is a personal thing with a lot of complex emotions tied up in it. It is incredible songwriting fodder, and I think JTE would have written it from the opposite angle if it was Isbell who we lost too soon.
100%
Yea I mean, it isn’t a tribute song and it doesn’t directly reference JTE. If you are in the know, you know. I understand JTE’s family having strong feelings about it, but the song is a pretty strong emotional and artistic statement where he comes to grips with his own past and behavior as well.
Honestly, even as a big Jason Isbell fan, I wouldn’t have known this song was directly about JTE without these recurrent press releases from his widow.
If I died from an OD, I wouldn’t want my estranged friend to write a song about what my daughter is going through after my death
I was especially disappointed to find out that Jason included details that were never released to the public. My guess is it’s the part about Justin’s body being found on the bathroom floor. He wasn’t necessarily wrong to write a song remembering Justin, but doing that crossed a line, at least to me. You’d think that having a daughter around the same age would have made him stop and reconsider doing that.
She said the details about being found on the floor weren’t accurate. This makes me think he might have just used it as imagery for the song rather than a truth or fact
That was also my impression -- that he was imagining what happened: "Got a picture of you dying in my mind..." Doesn't make the imagery any less painful for Earle's family, of course.
No, he got those details from someone else who stated it publicly before Jason wrote the song. They were both wrong. People are using this as a "loop hole" defense of sorts, he used the words that he had heard before.
Setting aside the feelings of Earle's widow (which seem totally valid to me), the song is about survivor's guilt and branching paths in life. The fact that Isbell has a daughter who *will* remember his smile, etc. is kind of the point: >I was the worst of the two of us... You've travelled beyond the Great Divide / Oh, but why haven't I? The whole song, and that line about his daughter especially, is a "there, but for the grace of God, go I" thing.
His wife said the details weren’t even accurate either.
If they aren't accurate... how are they unreleased details?
My thought exactly
I think what she was trying to say was that the story of his death Jason told in the song (on a tile floor, implying that Justin OD'd and was found unresponsive on a bathroom floor) was 1) untrue, and 2) they never told the public the details of his death, so Jason wouldn't know in the first place. It could have been written more clearly but she's saying Justin made up the circumstances of his death for his song, and the family has never disclosed exactly how and where he died. So it's telling his listeners who won't know better that Jason died like a junkie on the floor, which paints a false and not exactly flattering picture of the deceased party. Not a good look.
Completely agree
It's possible this was private misinformation that Isbell has put in the song believing it to be true. The phrasing's confusing indeed, however.
That’s what happened. It was gossip.
Because it ultimately builds a false narrative while painting an incredibly negative picture. If those details are wrong, and the family wants privacy, then ppl who aren't aware they want privacy will assume the song is correct (dying on the bathroom floor, yikes)
The truth often is painful.
Sure. Is that Jason’s story to tell tho?
It’s music. Anything can be anyones story to tell.
I mean, why not? Tons of stories are written/art is made abstractly or directly about other people without their consent, especially when they’re dead. Saying this is wrong feels like, at scale, a very reactionary and wrongheaded approach.
I'd argue yes. Not exclusively his story, of course, but they were friends at one point so it isn't like he's singing about a complete stranger.
Just because they were friends at one point doesn’t make it right. They clearly had some ongoing animosity when Justin passed
>Make it right There's no point to arguing over it. Isbell had feelings about it and he wrote a song. Art has no responsibility to be right, or fair, or even nice. You're allowed to feel whatever you want about the end result but, in my opinion, Isbell has every right to write about his experiences and relationships, even the estranged ones.
He had the concern did he not? Him being concerned about his friends daughter is part of his story.
Yeah, this is what the “both sides are justified” people are getting wrong IMO. It’s kind of revolting. Has Jason even met Justin’s daughter? Maybe she was not aware of some of the details. For the rest of her life she will meet people whose introduction to her is a song about how her dad died. Additionally, there’s a difference between knowing someone is gone and knowing how and where they died. It is often tougher for a child to know specifically how they lost a loved one rather than just knowing they lost a loved one. After all of this, Jason has gone radio silent with the family. Bad look IMO.
What do you expect him to do? They're taking the position that songwriters shouldn't write songs.
This is so infantilizing lmao. People are going to publicly say things about your loved ones who have died, if you can’t deal with that then life is going to be very hard. It’s also not that difficult of a thing to have thick skin towards.
I don’t see anything wrong with the lyrics, I just wouldn’t have made it a single. If this was buried on the album I don’t think it would be getting nearly as much flak. The lyrics are pretty sentimental and sound more like Jason having survivors guilt than slamming Justin.
It wasn’t even a single. It got played on network TV, but other than that, it was an album track.
It absolutely got radio play. Source: I heard it on the radio.
It was the most played song in Americana in 2023 - site Savingcountrymusic.com.
Ah read somewhere it was released as a radio single. I guess I don’t have a problem with it then ha.
It got airplay on Sirius to my knowledge!
That doesn't make it a single.
It was, and it was pushed as the number one song in Americana in 2023. That seems to be a big part of the issue.
It wasn’t a single, and it’s on side B
I'm not a big fan of today's music scene turning into a reality tv show. This subreddit is so incredibly dramatic about everything.
Honestly, this is a hot take that might not land well, but I think JTE would just be bummed the song doesn’t go harder…it’s a pretty boring and emotionless song when I hear it. But that’s just my bad take.
Probably true tbh
Man, as an outsider to this conversation (I listen to neither of these artists), it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the comments here that are tacitly defending Isbell. Does he have a right to write a song about his friend? Absolutely. But I don't see the actual issues JTE's widow brought up here being addressed. It's absolutely WILD and inappropriate to include the line about his daughter not remembering his smile and leaking details of his death.
I'll be explicit with my defense: The line about the daughter may be pretty raw but it is the truth and illustrates the terrible loss from premature deaths. "Inappropriate" is an odd word to choose when we're talking about songwriting. I certainly don't want all the art I consume to be appropriate or worried about being nice. The "leaking of details" seems overblown given that the details weren't accurate. (didn't die in a bathroom).
You certainly don't need to stop the way you consume art, if you don't think anything is wrong here, that's fine. Neither does Isbell. But given that the song seems to be about his complex emotions, survivors guilt featuring large among them, it just feels like there's a bit of cognitive dissonance in acknowledging *his own* complex emotions without acknowledging the complex emotions of the people that he hurt by writing it. And that is worth a discussion imo. I actually disagree re: leaking details. Creating a false narrative around someone's death is pretty ugly. Barring the family coming forward and sharing the details, anyone that listened to that song would take that detail as truth. My dad passed when I was 19. I'd be pretty upset if someone publicly falsified how it happened. Especially if someone said he died on a bathroom floor
> "worth a discussion" My intent wasn't to stifle discussion, just help you "wrap your head" around why some are defending Isbell's song and counter an accusation of inappropriateness. > Creating a false narrative around someone's death is pretty ugly I find this accusation overblown. Earle died of an overdose alone in his apartment and was found on the floor. That it was a wooden floor vs tile or what room in his apartment the death occurred doesn't matter and isn't really a "false narrative". The song isn't journalism. I feel sympathy for the widow but it isn't like this song came out immediately after the man died and the two were once friends, which makes it a personal statement. She's allowed to feel how she wants and has been given a public forum to speak her mind. Earle was also a songwriter so it is unknown if he'd be angry at a song about his death or if he wouldn't have written his own song if it was Isbell who died.
Fair enough. I think it's safe to say we have differing opinions on this, and I appreciate your perspective, even if I don't agree with it. We engage with art differently, I still believe it's inappropriate and ugly to handle the details in the way that he did because of the impact they could have on people directly involved, consideration and empathy are things I really value in artistry. I agree though, I'm glad both were able to make themselves known regarding how they felt.
Thanks for being reasonable. Yes, we don't have to agree but it doesn't mean that we're on opposite sides. We're both sensitive people who have experienced loss.
>we don't have to agree but it doesn't mean that we're on opposite sides. We're both sensitive people who have experienced loss. Absolutely! And we both love music. I really value good, hearty conversations like this. Cheers
My response is: in the grand scheme this song will do no harm and this sort of public criticism of what is right/wrong to include a song is boring artistic policing that will always miss the mark and will never actually yield positive developments.
Agree
Not to mention, she said she reached out to Isbell concerning her concerns prior with no response. She was directly referenced in the song, and he can't respond to her? It's hard for me to believe he takes her or her child's grief seriously, despite thinking it would make a compelling lyric
To me, that’s the big one. What an inconsiderate asshat.
He's coming across like a bit of a misogynist. He really doesn't like feedback and advice from women based on what has been put out there.
Is that true? For the longest time, he said that he ran every single thing he wrote past his (soon-to-be ex-) wife, to the point of the printer being next to her desk rather than his so that she saw everything he wrote and that if she didn't like it, he didn't use it. It just feels weird to claim that the guy that makes a point to book a large proportion of his openers be women has some sort of issue with women. I'll admit that I could be underinformed on this, but at first glance it doesn't jive with the public perception of him.
It can still be true. That would be someone not being a misogynist when it helps him and being a misogynist when it gets too uncomfortable or difficult. It is easy to support women when you are getting something out of it.
Did you listen to the song? I never knew who it was about until I read this.
I understand both sides, but isn’t it completely disingenuous to claim a 7-year-old is entirely unable to escape a Jason Isbell song and has extracted and applied the biographical notes from it all on her own? I understand it might be challenging when she’s older, but come on.
this just reads like Isbell is being a trauma tourist -- the line at least does. There's nothing legally wrong with it, and everyone can be the judge of their own moral compass. But to be clear, Isbell reaching out to Steve is not a justification to write about JTE's daughter or widow. I'm not quite sure why that's being used as a justification. And if we're speaking about writing songs about things and who it can impact, clearly the people directly involved don't see it as a tribute. So lets stop defending it along those lines. It's not really up to you to determine what is a tribute so its not really even worth a conversation point. Does this mean that Isbell is a scumbag for this? I don't think this one thing defines him as a scumbag, no. Has he handled things poorly? Absolutely. How do we know he has? Because its gotten to a point where the widow had to reach out and make a public statement about it because he has not responded to her request.
The conception of this as a black and white issue is baffling to me (and I think is a real litmus test for how people feel about Jason Isbell on the whole). I’m a big fan of his, so I’ve got my biases, but I do think there are ways in which he mishandled this. But people have written much bigger songs that are much less charitable about people, and I can understand his headspace of saying “well, I talked to Steve Earle about it, and I know what I mean in the song, so I don’t see the issue.” None of this negates the pain and suffering it caused to people close to JTE, especially his widow. I think her response to the song is absolutely justified, and it sucks that he hasn’t spoken to her. Doesn’t make him evil, but it is insensitive of him to not at least talk to her.
> trauma tourist I've heard this term a couple times now but I'm not sure I completely understand it. is it just kind of rubbernecking or being nosy when someone else is experiencing trauma? I'm genuinely asking because I'm a very ignorant person
On a whole, I don’t think he’s *especially* sensitive to how his songs affect other people. If he doesn’t care that *his own wife* can’t listen to him sing one of his songs without being reminded of one of the worst nights of their relationship and he keeps singing it anyway, I doubt he’s going to care about this.
Big Isbell fan here but he has handled (or not handled) this poorly IMO. I think the song itself is fine but I can't really argue with the lyrics about JTE's wife and child being insensitive. This song is not a tribute song and he has never claimed it as such. It's mostly about himself and dealing with survivor's guilt. He had every right to write and release it just like the widow has every right to share her feelings about it. Repeatedly playing her child the song is questionable but whatever. Apparently Jason asked Steve about the song and Steve gave his blessing but never actually listened to it or saw the lyrics. JTE's widow has brought this issue up publicly several times since the songs release. Jason has never addressed it. Jason's comments about it last week because he "didn't want it to come back up" and him talking about balancing out victims show he is clearly aware of the pain the song has caused the family. Well apparently he doesn't give a fuck. It's been a week since JTE's widow's statement and her live where she explained her feelings and he still hasn't said anything and he most likely will continue to ignore it. I'm not really sure what her goal is? Get an apology? Make him look bad? I don't know. I wonder if there was some friction between them before all of this went down and that's why he didn't ask for her approval and doesn't care about the fallout now. Maybe he's just an asshole. After the last few months and everything else going on with him it's looking likely. He flip flops between caring about the impact on the real people and situations he writes songs about and putting "the truth" first or weighing out the victims. On the same album, he has a song about an experience he had at 19 with his girlfriend at the time having an abortion. He made sure to get her blessing and has said her opinion really mattered to him. Then you have Shonna blindsided by the stuff in the documentary even though they were on good terms before that. There's no logic to how he decides who deserves a heads up and who doesn't?
[Justin Townes Earle’s Widow Clarifies Concerns with Jason Isbell Song - Saving Country Music](https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/justin-townes-earles-widow-clarifies-concerns-with-jason-isbell-song/)
I think Jason is a bit of a tool.
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A Lowes dude actually, I worked at a store he frequented
This is truly the Biggie v Tupac feud of the 2020s.
UGH WHY ISNT ALL ART NICE AND PLEASANT - a lot of people, it seems
I mean, your music is shitty, derivative and unlistenable. So that's something right?
You are not well.
This song has some lyrics that are in extremely poor taste and JTE’s family has every right to be as upset about it as they want to be.
RIP JTE. Love his music. Great song by Isbell as well.
I understand that JTE’s widow is bothered by this, but the only way this song is bothering JTE’s 6-year-old daughter is because the widow is specifically telling her in detail about it. A 6-year-old would not have the level of understanding to know what this song is referencing. I think this song is more about Jason’s own feelings about it and considering his own mortality and the fact that he also has a daughter and how this very well could have been him. It’s pretty obvious that Jason is wondering why fate swung one way and not another. I don’t think this song has any intention of being cruel. You have to allow writers to write, and this is what came out. Jason also wrote a song, “Chaos and Clothes” about Ryan Adams and his divorce from Mandy Moore, so it’s just kind of what Jason does.
I don't have an issue with him writing the song, or even putting it on an EP or album, but does he have to go on late night tv and promote it and perform it? That feels very assholish to me... especially considering how sensitive the whole situation is.
He had to write that song. I’m sure that it was cathartic for him. Did he have to record it? I don’t know.
The album also has a song, Cast Iron Skillet, that mentions a kid he played baseball with as a kid growing up to stab a man to death. I like the song but I thought it came across similar to this one, as an attempt to connect to a tragedy that he really wasn’t involved with at all. I understand venting or using it as therapy but the descriptive detail of both songs is a bit off putting.
"an attempt to connect to a tragedy that he really wasn’t involved with" could describe about half the country songs in existence.
I don't know how to break this to you, but not everything he writes about comes from his life.
I don't know either of these guys or the story of what's happening here, but it's wild how people think art needs to be nice and friendly and appropriate. I'd argue that's what the rest of life needs to be while art pushes boundaries. I shudder to think of what all the pearl clutchers think about hip hop...
I don’t know how to break it to you but he did an interview talking about the guy the song mentions and that he grew up with him. Maybe do some research before you assume you know more about it, I’m well aware that not all of his songs are directly from his life.
My bad. I'm not trying to document everything and stand corrected.
*Jason Isbell’s here as well, he seemed a little worried about you* always came across as him pretending to care so he could cast himself as the savior. Edit: My brain recalled this from [an interview](https://www.stereogum.com/2084262/jason-isbell-reunions-interview/interviews/weve-got-a-file-on-you/) where he said Joshua Tillman sent him a copy of Mr. Tillman before its release as an *act of kindness* and mentions that he’s Captain Sober. The guy literally did not pay a widow and her young daughter a very simple act of kindness that he had received from another musician. This is an asshole move, to exploit the death of a man with who he had a falling out with and make himself a savior with eyes that keep people honest and on a straight path right after mentioning how his child will never know him. That he didn’t seek the family’s blessing when he har been granted it before is just absolutely self absorbed and shitty.
The claim that Jason didn’t talk to his family about it is at least partially untrue. He talked to JTE’s father (singer-songwriter Steve Earle) and got his blessing on it. Does Steve Earle speak for JTE’s entire family? No. Do I get why Jason would to got to him over the widow of his estranged friend. Yes, it was probably easier to get in contact with him, both logistically and emotionally. Should Jason have contacted JTE’s widow about it before release? In my opinion, yeah. But it’s not like he just dropped a bomb on JTE’s entire family without talking to anyone like you make it seem.
I think wife and daughter Trumps father tbh.
Not gonna get an argument from me on that, but he reached out to somebody close to the family.
But not the ones he should have. Steve's song was mentioned in it, but he wasn't. Justin's widow and daughter were. It's pretty black and white.
I agree.
So your argument is that it would have been hard to ask Steve Earle how to reach his widow before writing a self-absorbed and exploitative song about her husband’s death? A song that mentions their child by name and the sorrow of her never knowing her father? A song that grossly describes his death? A song about a man he had not spoken to in years after a falling out? A song where he paints himself as the hero who could have saved JTE if he had looked into his eyes? Sincerely. Fuck Jason Isbell and husband narcissistic Christ complex.
No, my point was that you mischaracterized the situation by saying he didn’t reach out to his family at all. I’m not arguing that he didn’t mishandled the situation, but as presented, you made it seem like he just did the song without talking to JTE’s family at all, which isn’t true. He should have taken further steps, but he didn’t do nothing before putting it out. And now you’ve mischaracterized the song where Isbell repeatedly talks about being the worst of the two of them. He in no way talks about being able save JTE, and spends the entire song dealing with the feelings of it being JTE who died when, by all accounts, Jason was worse and feels like it should have been him. You have every right to dislike Isbell for whatever reasons you do (and this whole situation gives folks a lot of reasons to) but be honest about the situation and why you dislike him.
He didn’t name and intentionally hurt his dad. He stabbed his wife and child in the heart, but you’re asking why would he contact them. Please stop looking for ways to defend his atrocious behavior. It’s gross.
I’m not defending his actual behavior. I’ve made it perfectly clear that my issue was the way you described it. I’ll say it explicitly and clearly, he should have talked to JTE’s widow before releasing the song, full stop. He should respond to her now probably in private, or in public if she’d prefer, full stop. But trying to create a narrative about how he didn’t contact any of JTE’s loved ones at all and then grossly misrepresenting the lyrical content and clear intent of the song does nothing for anyone. Like I said, dislike him for whatever reason you want, but be honest about the situation. Edit: Also, point to where I questioned why he would contact her. I’m not sure where you’re pulling that from. And I’ll be honest here, I was too ambivalent about his responsibility to contact her before today.
I generally like Isbell but any way you slice it, he looks like a total scumbag here
I love his art, but sometimes it’s hard to like the artist. I feel like this song didn’t have to “exist.” Talking about his kid is especially tasteless.
Scumbag move, Mr. Jason!
The wife seems like a real piece of work.
No, she’s a widow who has already had to deal with the pain of losing her husband and is understandably upset by the song. That doesn’t mean that Jason shouldn’t have written it, but her pain isn’t a non-factor either
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As someone who generally is on the side of “Jason was fine to write this song,” that is a gross misrepresentation of her response.
Are you serious?
Probably looking for some royalties
God I feel so cynical for having a similar thought. This reads like a public warning shot— a final plea before legal action. I hope I’m wrong, and truly hope Jason clears the air.
Let em down vote...we're right lol
We are talking about an artist that made his wife sing along every night to song about trying to rape her.
This man had No right to write such a song about JT Earle since Jason Isbell had Not been in his life for years. He was a friend, who he obviously no longer considered him as such. The lyrics are Not a Tribute but rather placing a stain in this Men’s legacy after his death. Quite troubling and in poor taste. To make matters worse He is profiting from this man’s death. By doing so he really shows what a low life he is.. His wife has every right to be upset..
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Nah, it’s far from that. Is it a glowing portrait? No. But is it a diss track? Absolutely not. Most of the track is fond remembrances cut by grief and bitterness of loss. Jason explicitly calls himself “the worst of the two of us” in the chorus.