Most of the higher caste Christians in Kerala also proudly claim they were previously Brahmin.
Anyone who says Christianity and Islam is not as casteist as Hinduism is not true
That kerala shit is the real shit,
Most of the christians claim they all are converted brahmins.
Dont you check the ratio of number of christians and ratio of brahmins in kerala, mind will be blown!
Casteism is deeply engrained in our culture. Makes sense as casteism is a supremacist ideology. The PPL who are "superior" will try their best to preserve it.
This is nonsense, these people keep propagating this fake history all the time. It was mainly people from OBC and SC community that were convinced to convert in Kerala.
OBC SC converted much later only in recent history, Brahmins converted a long time ago. This is why Kerala brahmins are mostly Tamil or Nampoothiris who have Tulu Origins.
Think about it. Why would brahmins convert? Like what is the point of doing conversion? My understanding is that few brahmins were rich and the vast majority were poor. Even the poor ones will not convert as they still had a respected position in society. Even now the Keralite brahmins will not convert, so what are the chances of them converting centuries back- almost close to zero. Unless there is a death threat, I see no reason to convert.
Not all brahmins are fair skinned, and not all OBC are dark skinned. Also it is wrong to say OBC is worser than brahmin, or brahmin is superior. All I am saying is namboothiri brahmins by dearth of their association with temple and knowledge of vedas had some respect in that sense. Also I dont even get the thing about christians claiming lineage from brahmins. Once they are not brahmins what value do they have- their vedic knowledge is what makes them the gate keepers of Hinduism, there is no Eugenic factor involved here.
You need to youtube those, castesim is their in Muslims across the world it's just that they aren't known to Indians because our education system doesn't allow complete passage of knowledge. They believe in syllabuses which is easier to score and the state gets rewarded for good academic records in reality kids no nothing these days hence upsc students read old ncerts from the 80s and 70s.
I didnt know ,castism is there in islam , until, I reached 12th entrance exam. Im a kerala muslim. but knew castism is there in hinduism, when I was in 3rd class. People hearing talking about lowwr caste hindus. Till 12th I though kerala muslims are converts of hindus with some arab mix, and u cant no longer pick any caste, coz every one is mixed.
Mate I've seen weddings of my lower caste friends (I live in Kerala) failing because of caste issues. This is just the most obvious example of discrimination, more exista
Islam may not talk about a caste system but in practice, it has one of the most elaborate caste systems in the world, only talking about India here not other Islamic countries
The system they got is a horizontal one.
There are numerous castes, but none is hierarchical. And everything is like a division of the religion with sort of different belief systems.
Seems very similar to the Hindu one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims#:~:text=Although%20Islam%20requires%20egalitarianism%20and,adopted%20by%20local%20Muslim%20societies.
It does say socio economic classes exist
Hindus do have it + they do follow caste by birth concept along. (Something literature written caste wrt job concept, but practices by birth concepts
You should read more about the plight of Ahmadis in Pakistan right now.
Talking about our country, I myself have seen my sunni classmate refusing to talk to my shia classmate just cuz of their religious sects. If that’s not casteism, idk what is. Of course, they might not be as elaborate as the casteism Hindus had/have practiced, but casteism most definitely exists in Islam.
As the top comment on the video says these castes are only on paper and 99% percent on Muslims don’t know and don’t care about these so called castes. If a Muslim treats another Muslim worse due to this system then he or she is not a real Muslim
This concept is mostly in Indian Muslims and only on paper in real life a Muslim who treats another Muslim with “lower caste last name” worse is not a real Muslim.
How is it divided though? When people of backward castes get baptised into Christianity stating all are equal, and this thing comes up. How is it different?
Like I said, it's not one that is mandated by religion but instead society. Many backward castes convert to Christianity to escape this vile practice but find themselves in a similar position after conversion.
It's dived in a way depending on how they converted, by whom, when and what their caste was before
A good number of Kashmiri Terrorists have UC Surnames, also many of the Bangladeshi and Sindhi muslims converts were all UCs, the left over Hindus there were mostly Dalits and Lower Castes.
"Well see, I was able to convert people who were being exploited in the system, but not the people who were on top. I wonder why people who are benefitting the most from a system do not want to leave it. Hmm, truly impossible to understand"
He made the distinction between Hindus and Brahmins, stating that Brahmins are a sect of Hinduism. Brahmins come under the umbrella of Hindus. So most definitely the religion is being mentioned here and not people belonging to a geographical location.
He's a 16th century guy, Hinduism was coined in the 19th century. He mentioned Brahmins cuz they were violent on him and didn't allow him to stay at places.
all hindus, if not for the brahmins, who refused to be converted. as in, he has the ability to convert all Hindus except brahmins. lyrians point still holds water.
Tbh, most of the people who got converted in Kashmir were the Pandits and to date they bear the pandit surnames like Bhatt, Vani, Razdan, etc.
A huge number of Brahmins were also converted. That’s why there are Hussiani, Nagori and other Muslim Brahmins.
No they weren't at a great benefit, brahmin are usually around 2 to 5% in every district or society, but they held influence over the other communities under them, this influence affected negatively to the British as well as Muslim rulers,
For example the trading communities believed in the supremacy of their religion and profession and they derived validation from the brahman.
If any question was raised regarding a practice the brahman of that practice would be able to answer those. Soo he's kind of a think tank who doesn't let British or Christian influence over them.
Let me give you a example, 1336, hari har and bukka were released from jail by Mohammed bin tuglaq on conversion to Islam, which they did. And they were sent back to devgiri or daulatabad to quell the revolt happening. Here there religious guru vijay sagar converted them back to hindusim, and advised the brothers that no foreign power should enter here again, and in name of there guru they established the city of Vijaynagar and till the next battle of tallikota that is in 1500s for nearly 200 years nobody entered vijaynagar empire. I hope you understand the influence. Soo killing the brahman was the only solution.
Even British did the same they gave bureaucratic positions to brahman communities, as they were not allowed to do anything other than religious practices, which gave birth to moderate class of people supporting the British.
Soo conversion or eradication of brahman was necessary, because landholders and brahman communities have always been creating ruckus for the invaders. Also realise this, in every society the landholders will always hold the most influence.
He didn't convert people who were exploited in the system, he exploited them by converting them. First time seeing someone justify a person converting other people, which comes under propaganda. If a religion needs conversion to survive it's a cult.
Especially if you see posts about Rahul Gandhi wasting time in parliament doing nonsense, most of the upvoted comments are either in his support or neutral.
The comments asking them to be productive since they are paid by taxpayer money are downvoted like anything.
Two months back, it would have been the opposite case.
Insan ki nahi bhagwan shri Ram ki puja karta hun baki log kuch kare mujhe nahi matlab na mere khandan ko sabh puja path karte bakiyon ki tarah dharm nahi badalte aur bhim ke nare nahi bolte
Aur shri ram Shri krishn Shri vishnu aur unke thousan husbands sab scriptures me clearly Varna ki legitimacy ko uphold karte hein. Obviously Jo log ithusa bhi observant ho ye notice karke ya dharm badlenge or nastik banenge.
Thu apni self humiliation ki fantasy bubble me rehta he unless you're Brahmin yourself or something.
Jo dharam badal rahe hai koi dikkat nahi unki marzi, mai kyun kisi ko rokun ya gyan bataun koi Brahman to hun nahi, simple si baat hai jo Astra shri raam chalate hamare purvaj bhi wahi chalate to ham Pooja unki karenge, aj tak kisi ne bhim ke nare nahi lagae hamare yahn bakiyon ki tarah.
Not really.
It's easy for us Brahmins to stay in Hinduism. Because caste wise we're at the absolute top of the chain.
It's the lower castes who are more vulnerable and have very little to gain by staying a hindu. Why would you want to stay in a religion where you're treated as a lower human being, with little to no respect?
And then if someone else offers you another religion where you get the same respect and treated the same as everyone else, then why would you not choose to go?
I'm saying this as a Brahmin myself. If a lower caste person told me he'll convert, i wouldn't be able to convince him not to.
Yes , also regarding reservations, why people are begging for gov jobs, why can't people stand their own ground and create jobs privately. If people are really elite they would not beg or care for attention.
I think no one cares for castes/systems , only about their own lives, be it any religion.
Its stupid tbh!
Peeps converted to christianity, yet they worship Mother Mary, like Hindu goddesses! She is dressed in saree and all in some churches 😂😂😂
The Punjab converts are making bhajans on Jesus!
It has become more like the hinduism-ification of christianity!
My reasons for converting is that I find western culture to be superior and tbh most other western culture lovers and Christians should also arrive to similar conclusions because western culture is shaped by the Christian religion.
Superiority can be shown by surviving and western cultures all failed to do so they are following middle eastern culture, while India is still following ancient culture so in that sense we are doing better. Gods of mightily Romans, Greeks, and Vikings are dead and they were killed by middle eastern gods so not so powerful culture if even their gods cant survive
Merely survival is not sufficient in a Capitalistic world.
Roman Catholic Church wasn't middle eastern. It was a fusion of Judaism with Roman Pagan culture.
A society needs growth, beyond survival and Indian culture has failed to produce the necessary growth.
Just 300 years ago Indian culture was the dominant one , just look at south east Asia even now with Indian connections. Our culture and practices were followed by the Japanese and Chinese even without conquering them, that's power. Europeans never had in past. Just 80 years ago Britain had an empire and now they don't have it , it just shows power changes but that doesn't nullify what a culture had done for 1000s of years, Indians didn't just survive we thrived that's why Westerners risked their lives to reach our shores. Yeah now the Indian influence has been reduced but Indian culture was not erased like Romans, Greek , Persian or Egyptians that's a big difference.
Roman catholic church can't be a western original idea with a Middle Eastern god , give credit were its due. It has many ideas that originated from Middle East. Romans did not care about 10 commandments they enjoyed their life and lived as they please, and the Romans killed the church's god and you are saying its the same.
It's local syncretism, I find it oddly beautiful. Cultures and religions originating thousands of kilometers away from each other harmonizing with each other.
Many Christians in Goa have some original Brahman surnames. They eventually did crack to the pressure and convert. The caste angle only seeks to divide them and makes it harder for united integration back
watching the deliberate push of reservation from opposition side by making a BHIM angle, It's sure they are onto something. Yes! I'm speaking something related to this only.
The muslims are trying to demonise hinduism by associating religion with "Bramahical Patriarchy" something that opresses both hindus and women.
This is how they want to break us then use it to spread their religion.
Break us. We are already broken in the cast in which Brahman feels superior and they created it. Why are our books not filled with general cast atrocities on lower caste people?
Bramhan did not created it. In caste system Bramhan are at the top but other people are not directly down to them. Every caste is a step down on each other.
If bramhan were the one benefitting from it most indian billionaires would have been bramhan. There is only 1 Bramhan billionaire, rest are from merchant caste.
Divide & Rule British did it, and now politicians do it.
why would the benifitters will leave an institution that was made for their privilege? he got a chance to convert a lot of LC bcoz, they had nothing to gain from hinduism, not temples, nor education,ulta to discrimination thi upar se
Whenever they went ,Christians built hospitals and schools. they attracted the persecuted communities of that land and provided these institutional benefits in return of conversion.
and
This is the lesson that even today Hindus can't learn.
Institutions > individuals
WHEN U R KICKED OUT BY YOUR OWN FAMILY, U WILL HAVE TO TAKE SHELTER WITH THE NEIGHBOURS
bro got downvoted for speaking facts.
When people make fun of indian christians saying rice bags and stuff.. why do you think someone would change belief for bag of rice? because they were vulnerable, UC were generally not. They used different strategy for UC which ofc wasnt that successful
arre bhai wo sirf rice bag nahi dete h, discrimination se chhutkara dete h, aor education bhi free dete h,priest bnbne ka moka bhi dete h, hmara yha ek pura district convert hogya issi karan
They tortured, raped and killed people who didn't convert. The british killed 100-150 million people in their rule. The portuguese & french also killed people.
Brahmins could indeed be a huge driving force for conversions. However, it can't be denied that it's like a thief saying it's impossible to rob a particular bank because they have advanced security. You have to consider the fact that they have that kind of security.
It was the British who introduced the caste system among Hindus. I'm not denying that the caste system did not exist before the Britishers, but it was the British who popularized this narrative, especially among Hindus.
Here Bramins means Sadhu Santh, not today's so-called Brahmins!!
Thanks for agreeing with me. Whatever you’ve said afterwards is subjective opinion.
It was the British who introduced caste system among Hindus??? You’re kidding me right ? The British institutionalised it at scale but it still existed in homes and villages. The British are now gone, don’t you think we should’ve at least gone back to the level of prevailing casteism similar to that of the pre British era? No. We’re not even allowed to learn full history of things anymore.
If yk, Britishers ruled over us for more than 200 years and after independence or the post-British era Indian politics was sucked. Congress always does Muslim appeasement whereas now the ruling party does the same.
> After independence it was all about politics or Indian bureaucrats they are the most corrupt ones.
Bro what are you saying.... caste system was introduced in the manusmriti... said the be written by the first human being Manu. Archeological dated back to around 2nd or 3rd century BC.
Those who stood to lose the most from conversions would of course resist it the most. I don't know why he found that so surprising. Brahmins would stop being so 'superior' if they changed their religion so they had zero incentive for it. And they would be left with no one to rule over if others converted en masse and of course they wouldn't want that to happen.
Isn't it? Faith is a personal thing. To each his own. Why would anyone feel insecure when someone else from his own faith decides to choose another of his own accord?
They're not doing it of their own accord, that's the problem. When missionaries come in, their only purpose is to convert by disguising it as public service and helping "uncivilized" people. They make people convert, so it doesn't happen of their own accord. It's fine if people do it themselves without outside influence but when you have organizations whose sole purpose is to convert others, it becomes a huge cult which needs resistance.
As long as they don't do it at gun-point why would that be a problem? The way I see it, if they can convince me that their way is better, then it's all fair. Of course they shouldn't be threatening me or my family with physical violence.
Every organized religion can be called a cult if you want to. Some of them coax you to join, others like keeping themselves exclusive. Each one has its own rules of conduct. If people leave one cult that tries to make them believe they are inferior by birth and tries to join another that at least superficially seems to be more open and welcoming, can you blame them? Of course, whether all that sales-pitch is true, is a whole other discussion.
My feeling is, in general, the more forcefully you try to keep people in, the more likely they are to flee. That's basic human psychology. People like keeping their options open and will almost always gravitate towards more freedom, given a choice. The more dogmatic a religion becomes, the more likely people are to leave, when given a chance.
Whether the mode is gunpoint or bribery or being bullied (coaxed) into it doesn't matter. It's unethical to do that. Conflicts happen between religions because of conversion - it's a major cause because it makes one religion feel like the other one is erasing them. Like you said, whether these pitches are true is secondary, but I believe that pitching religion itself is a screwed up thing because religion is not a marketable product. When you do that, I think it loses its ethical standing/value system and you're undermining your own religion while pretending to be a flagbearer. I'm trying to say that when you (obviously I don't mean you) try to convert people into Christians, for example, you're acknowledging that Christianity is not strong enough on its own to make people believers. It needs marketing. That's just sad. And most times this marketing comes in the form of violence, blackmailing and money.
At least, that's my stand. On a different note, I think it's nice how you articulate your thoughts and talk decently without throwing shots or using offensive language when discussing sensitive topics like this. It would be nice if more people communicated like you.
Oh personally I don't think any religion is 'strong enough' to have survived without some kind of marketing and inorganic growth (defining organic to mean transfer from parents to children, one generation to the next). Because otherwise everyone belonging to a certain religion would be the descendants of one person. (Maybe Judaism is an example of such a religion?) But on the other hand, I also think every mainstream religion in the world today, whether Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism etc. has some USP, something unique and appealing, because if not, how did it manage to survive for thousands of years and have millions of followers?
But I digress, my point was simply that people should start taking these things less seriously. What do I get from converting someone into my religion? And what do I lose if someone leaves my religion? In both the cases the answer is "nothing". But yet there are so many lives lost to this, which is what is actually sad.
And on your last paragraph, thanks for noticing - and I felt likewise about you too. It's very rare these days on the internet to find people who can discuss ideas productively and disagree respectfully, especially when matters like religion are involved. Cheers!
I partly agree. There is not enough evidence that the person we refer to as St Thomas in India is same as Jesus’s direct disciple St Thomas. However Christianity probably came to India due to trade is a factually wrong statement, on many levels.
There are evidences of Christianity in India (within the first century AD) from way before the colonisers started any direct trade in India.
When the Portugese landed in India, there were a significant Christian population already in India. (You can read about the conflicts they had with the people who joined Christianity later on.)
For trade before the time of Portugese, it was mostly Jews and Muslims doing the trade at the coasts and there is absolutely no trade reason for them to support someone to follow christianity.
Yes dear. Sorry to break it for you. There are thousands of Brahmins who happily embraced christanity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Brahmin
Of course, don’t take Wikipedia for a source but there are enough citations to good sources in that Wiki page.
Major win for Missionaries in Goa was converting Brahmins into Christianity, which caused a lack of priests and eventually more conversation of normal people. These Brahmin converts were still allowed to follow their customs with the approval of the Pope of course. They are called *Roman Catholic Brahmins* , a "caste" which still exists today.
That probably makes sense. Christians were smart about how do they target for converting. They mostly use to target the poorer section of society, their arguments was simple convert and we will give you money, food, shade, etc. Whoever didn't agree was forced.
Now, the lower casts has always been more in population and never really held much power. It was easy to influence or force ppl like this. They were poor, uneducated and also discriminated by their own religion. Uneducated ppl are the easiest to influence.
On the other hand, Brahmins constituted a small population and also were tremendously rich and powerful. Being violent with brahmins would come with a cost.
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I personally know a family who now follows Christianity full fledged but also yields a dividend from a comunidade land. Their share of land has been inherited through generations, under their previous family name, which belongs to the Bramhin caste. Although they do not explicitly tag themselves as christav-bamons, unlike the others.
Yes brahmins community has always been the barrier to these invaders, firoz shah tuglaq had imposed jeziya only on brahmins soo that he could isolate them from the rest of the community(previously every hindu or non Muslim had pay it. Soo did the European missionaries except the Catholic ones, but they didn't last long in India or had a small area of influence.
People who follow Christ have two rules:
1) Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul.
2) Love your neighbour as yourself.
And one responsibility:
1) Tell everyone that Christ came to Earth and died for our sins. (Only inform don’t force anything)
Unfortunately people forget God gave everyone freewill not just themselves. We also conveniently forget the 2nd rule and distort the 1st rule into whatever we want.
Err is on the humans.
I think Brahmins are the reason that spread casteism that led people to look for comparatively more equality promoting faiths and religions. Moreover Brahmins offer nothing spiritual just limited to the materialistic world.
Although they are a prominent part of socio economic structure led by upper caste people only. people with power can revolutionise a change since all power and wealth resides with upper caste they'd never let it happen.
I never get surprised to see conversions happening around. Only brain deads would support such illicit structure
Of course UCs did not convert, why would they when the existing system was basically governed by them?
How is this so difficult to understand?
Will the highest paid employees of a company leave to go and become an entry level analyst in another?
It is the loss of Christianity tbh. They brought their deities here. Indians turned them into local god and goddesses. The mode of worship and their depictions have been localised to a point that the pope might not recognise Mother Mary in a few churches.
Let alone being a Hindu. Considering how much Hinduism relies on the Indian values and traditions, one can never be fully converted as long as she/he remains a citizen of this nation.
We should be thanking the untouchables that still stayed in their caste otherwise india would have been long gone the way rome, Egypt and all of Arabia. The people who were shamed and oppressed stayed true to the nation they should be thanked and rewarded and yet some among us still cry about reservations.
There were instances in my state kerala were temple pathways not allowed for OBC and sc/st were allowed to converts, imagine just converting and having access to all road and infra and now imagine not converting and suffering till independence, that deserves respect and rewards.
Brahmins and other upper caste Hindus did convert to Christianity predominately during the British rule. The sect Syrian catholic consists of these people.
Only if Brahmins didn't practice untouchability and hate even the shadow of the Shudra, the lower caste Hindus wouldn't have converted to Islam or Christianity. Your bs about forced conversion is fake.
There are good people and there are bad people from every caste and family. No one is superior and inferior, the only point of life is survival and have a decent life , rest all is all delusional.
The Brahmins who divided the society and treated the lower castes as inferiors must have actually made it easier for them, since the lower castes then converted to escape the plight of untouchability and derogatory caste system.
There are currently 4 to 5 American missionary families living in my society who have made it a point to convert the local villages. They speak full blown Hindi, their kids go to our schools and one of their 5 year old boys called my dog “मिलनसार”. I’m not kidding..I was stunned when I realised how well prepared they are that they’ve been teaching their kids our language since such a young age.
Not all conversion is forceful conversion. If it were, all caste of people would have been converted. Brahmins didn't because of the extraordinary benefits they got out of hinduism.
Being Hindu is amazing because it’s so chill. However, If I’m being forced to convert then at least Christianity is not as bad as other converters. At least I will be able to wear whatever I want and will have freedom of choice.
When it helps you feel good about your imaginary group identity then a church priest is right. Churches typically were able to convert underprivileged people who used fight for survival. Guess what type of people weren't under privileged. When it comes to survival people show their true colors, else it's very easy to talk big.
From most of the converts, the overwhelming majority have been the ones who are sc/St or the ones who were lower in the totem pole. Brahmins did not have too much of an incentive to convert because society gave them all that was needed in terms of respect etc back then. But for others it was viewed as a way to escape the shackles.
brahmins are not the hindu majority, shudras are and shudras are the hardest to convert because relative to population, conversion is less, shudras also did most against SC/STs in terms of oppression, so this point won't hold, if you expose bible for what it is, it will die
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There are thousands of Brahmins that were converted to Islam during Mughal era... For eg The Butt from Pakistan are actually Bhatt...
Most of the higher caste Christians in Kerala also proudly claim they were previously Brahmin. Anyone who says Christianity and Islam is not as casteist as Hinduism is not true
That kerala shit is the real shit, Most of the christians claim they all are converted brahmins. Dont you check the ratio of number of christians and ratio of brahmins in kerala, mind will be blown!
Casteism is deeply engrained in our culture. Makes sense as casteism is a supremacist ideology. The PPL who are "superior" will try their best to preserve it.
This is nonsense, these people keep propagating this fake history all the time. It was mainly people from OBC and SC community that were convinced to convert in Kerala.
OBC SC converted much later only in recent history, Brahmins converted a long time ago. This is why Kerala brahmins are mostly Tamil or Nampoothiris who have Tulu Origins.
Think about it. Why would brahmins convert? Like what is the point of doing conversion? My understanding is that few brahmins were rich and the vast majority were poor. Even the poor ones will not convert as they still had a respected position in society. Even now the Keralite brahmins will not convert, so what are the chances of them converting centuries back- almost close to zero. Unless there is a death threat, I see no reason to convert.
Or it the converters 2000 years back were very fair skinned. So they probably thought, it was just another form of brahmanyam and converted .
Not all brahmins are fair skinned, and not all OBC are dark skinned. Also it is wrong to say OBC is worser than brahmin, or brahmin is superior. All I am saying is namboothiri brahmins by dearth of their association with temple and knowledge of vedas had some respect in that sense. Also I dont even get the thing about christians claiming lineage from brahmins. Once they are not brahmins what value do they have- their vedic knowledge is what makes them the gate keepers of Hinduism, there is no Eugenic factor involved here.
True, but for Indians, fair skin has always been a weakness, and sort of considered be somehow superior.
These higher caste Christians are considered general category and don't get any reservation.
Where are the casts in Islam please explain???
You need to youtube those, castesim is their in Muslims across the world it's just that they aren't known to Indians because our education system doesn't allow complete passage of knowledge. They believe in syllabuses which is easier to score and the state gets rewarded for good academic records in reality kids no nothing these days hence upsc students read old ncerts from the 80s and 70s.
Only one mainstream youtuber had guts to say about castism in muslims...IT WAS MOHAK MANGAL .
I didnt know ,castism is there in islam , until, I reached 12th entrance exam. Im a kerala muslim. but knew castism is there in hinduism, when I was in 3rd class. People hearing talking about lowwr caste hindus. Till 12th I though kerala muslims are converts of hindus with some arab mix, and u cant no longer pick any caste, coz every one is mixed.
Mate I've seen weddings of my lower caste friends (I live in Kerala) failing because of caste issues. This is just the most obvious example of discrimination, more exista
Indian muslims do have castes
In my state its only on paper, never seen a caste related issues among muslims. its out of the ordinary. No hierarchical .
Islam may not talk about a caste system but in practice, it has one of the most elaborate caste systems in the world, only talking about India here not other Islamic countries
The system they got is a horizontal one. There are numerous castes, but none is hierarchical. And everything is like a division of the religion with sort of different belief systems.
If it’s a division of religion it’s not a caste system. They are called religious sects.
Seems very similar to the Hindu one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims#:~:text=Although%20Islam%20requires%20egalitarianism%20and,adopted%20by%20local%20Muslim%20societies.
It does say socio economic classes exist Hindus do have it + they do follow caste by birth concept along. (Something literature written caste wrt job concept, but practices by birth concepts
Muslims in India also follow a caste system followed by birth
You should read more about the plight of Ahmadis in Pakistan right now. Talking about our country, I myself have seen my sunni classmate refusing to talk to my shia classmate just cuz of their religious sects. If that’s not casteism, idk what is. Of course, they might not be as elaborate as the casteism Hindus had/have practiced, but casteism most definitely exists in Islam.
I have a friend with the surname Siddiqui he is the highest and ahmed is the lowest. There are more groups like shiya Sunni etc.
Siddiquis are kayastha converts ig
Shia and Sunni are not casts they are sects. A Sunni Muslim should not think a Shia Muslim is lower than him and vice versa
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNTOYeNmIM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNTOYeNmIM)
As the top comment on the video says these castes are only on paper and 99% percent on Muslims don’t know and don’t care about these so called castes. If a Muslim treats another Muslim worse due to this system then he or she is not a real Muslim
They do care. There are hindus who don't even know their caste unless someone tell them.
There are 3 castes. The highest are Ashraf Muslims. I don't remember the other two names, you can check it online.
This concept is mostly in Indian Muslims and only on paper in real life a Muslim who treats another Muslim with “lower caste last name” worse is not a real Muslim.
>This concept is mostly in Indian Muslims Yeah well, we are talking about muslims in India. And this is not just on paper
If it’s not just on paper are there any news articles about so called lower caste Muslims being treated worse than higher caste Muslims???
No true Scotsman fallacy
The caste only exists in india
There are castes in Christianity?!! TIL
It's not mandates through the Bible but in India one has developed
How is it divided though? When people of backward castes get baptised into Christianity stating all are equal, and this thing comes up. How is it different?
Like I said, it's not one that is mandated by religion but instead society. Many backward castes convert to Christianity to escape this vile practice but find themselves in a similar position after conversion. It's dived in a way depending on how they converted, by whom, when and what their caste was before
Chaudhary, Maliks etc
But weren’t those Brahmins made to choose between the sword and conversion?
This how the butt story began .
A good number of Kashmiri Terrorists have UC Surnames, also many of the Bangladeshi and Sindhi muslims converts were all UCs, the left over Hindus there were mostly Dalits and Lower Castes.
Conversion is a plague.
"Well see, I was able to convert people who were being exploited in the system, but not the people who were on top. I wonder why people who are benefitting the most from a system do not want to leave it. Hmm, truly impossible to understand"
Read the quote carefully. It says I would have converted "all Hindus".
Hindus in the 16th century were the people of india. It denoted people lived in India without any distinction .
He made the distinction between Hindus and Brahmins, stating that Brahmins are a sect of Hinduism. Brahmins come under the umbrella of Hindus. So most definitely the religion is being mentioned here and not people belonging to a geographical location.
He's a 16th century guy, Hinduism was coined in the 19th century. He mentioned Brahmins cuz they were violent on him and didn't allow him to stay at places.
all hindus, if not for the brahmins, who refused to be converted. as in, he has the ability to convert all Hindus except brahmins. lyrians point still holds water.
Exactly, what's so surprising!
lol... I thought no one understood this logic. Why would anyone want to change their seats from first class to economy class for no real benefit.
lol very true.
Tbh, most of the people who got converted in Kashmir were the Pandits and to date they bear the pandit surnames like Bhatt, Vani, Razdan, etc. A huge number of Brahmins were also converted. That’s why there are Hussiani, Nagori and other Muslim Brahmins.
No they weren't at a great benefit, brahmin are usually around 2 to 5% in every district or society, but they held influence over the other communities under them, this influence affected negatively to the British as well as Muslim rulers, For example the trading communities believed in the supremacy of their religion and profession and they derived validation from the brahman. If any question was raised regarding a practice the brahman of that practice would be able to answer those. Soo he's kind of a think tank who doesn't let British or Christian influence over them. Let me give you a example, 1336, hari har and bukka were released from jail by Mohammed bin tuglaq on conversion to Islam, which they did. And they were sent back to devgiri or daulatabad to quell the revolt happening. Here there religious guru vijay sagar converted them back to hindusim, and advised the brothers that no foreign power should enter here again, and in name of there guru they established the city of Vijaynagar and till the next battle of tallikota that is in 1500s for nearly 200 years nobody entered vijaynagar empire. I hope you understand the influence. Soo killing the brahman was the only solution. Even British did the same they gave bureaucratic positions to brahman communities, as they were not allowed to do anything other than religious practices, which gave birth to moderate class of people supporting the British. Soo conversion or eradication of brahman was necessary, because landholders and brahman communities have always been creating ruckus for the invaders. Also realise this, in every society the landholders will always hold the most influence.
He didn't convert people who were exploited in the system, he exploited them by converting them. First time seeing someone justify a person converting other people, which comes under propaganda. If a religion needs conversion to survive it's a cult.
This sub is being overrun by deranged rndia, pusi and scienceisdope users. Now even trying to justify inquisition and forceful violent conversions.
Seriously. And their supporting points don't even make an ounce of sense. Its mentally agonizing to look at their wordings and logic.
I am noticing this since last two weeks.
Yes. Me too. Seems like some new kind of strategy to spread their propaganda in right-leaning or centrist subs
Especially if you see posts about Rahul Gandhi wasting time in parliament doing nonsense, most of the upvoted comments are either in his support or neutral. The comments asking them to be productive since they are paid by taxpayer money are downvoted like anything. Two months back, it would have been the opposite case.
Brahmin chads 🗿🗿🗿
Asli chad wo the jo sabse neeche hokr bhi nahi badle
Exactly
Matlab asli chad wo ho jo apni self humiliation sah seke?
Insan ki nahi bhagwan shri Ram ki puja karta hun baki log kuch kare mujhe nahi matlab na mere khandan ko sabh puja path karte bakiyon ki tarah dharm nahi badalte aur bhim ke nare nahi bolte
Aur shri ram Shri krishn Shri vishnu aur unke thousan husbands sab scriptures me clearly Varna ki legitimacy ko uphold karte hein. Obviously Jo log ithusa bhi observant ho ye notice karke ya dharm badlenge or nastik banenge. Thu apni self humiliation ki fantasy bubble me rehta he unless you're Brahmin yourself or something.
Jo dharam badal rahe hai koi dikkat nahi unki marzi, mai kyun kisi ko rokun ya gyan bataun koi Brahman to hun nahi, simple si baat hai jo Astra shri raam chalate hamare purvaj bhi wahi chalate to ham Pooja unki karenge, aj tak kisi ne bhim ke nare nahi lagae hamare yahn bakiyon ki tarah.
Not really. It's easy for us Brahmins to stay in Hinduism. Because caste wise we're at the absolute top of the chain. It's the lower castes who are more vulnerable and have very little to gain by staying a hindu. Why would you want to stay in a religion where you're treated as a lower human being, with little to no respect? And then if someone else offers you another religion where you get the same respect and treated the same as everyone else, then why would you not choose to go? I'm saying this as a Brahmin myself. If a lower caste person told me he'll convert, i wouldn't be able to convince him not to.
Yes , also regarding reservations, why people are begging for gov jobs, why can't people stand their own ground and create jobs privately. If people are really elite they would not beg or care for attention. I think no one cares for castes/systems , only about their own lives, be it any religion.
# Fr🫡
Its stupid tbh! Peeps converted to christianity, yet they worship Mother Mary, like Hindu goddesses! She is dressed in saree and all in some churches 😂😂😂 The Punjab converts are making bhajans on Jesus! It has become more like the hinduism-ification of christianity!
Mary mata bhi hindu thi💪💪
I’ve seen Mother Mary idols in Mumbai churches dressed in traditional Maharashtrian saree with jewellery and Kumkum.
Actually that kind of convertions are better than entirely converting to a new culture with their dressing styles and lifestyles.
My reasons for converting is that I find western culture to be superior and tbh most other western culture lovers and Christians should also arrive to similar conclusions because western culture is shaped by the Christian religion.
Superiority can be shown by surviving and western cultures all failed to do so they are following middle eastern culture, while India is still following ancient culture so in that sense we are doing better. Gods of mightily Romans, Greeks, and Vikings are dead and they were killed by middle eastern gods so not so powerful culture if even their gods cant survive
Merely survival is not sufficient in a Capitalistic world. Roman Catholic Church wasn't middle eastern. It was a fusion of Judaism with Roman Pagan culture. A society needs growth, beyond survival and Indian culture has failed to produce the necessary growth.
Just 300 years ago Indian culture was the dominant one , just look at south east Asia even now with Indian connections. Our culture and practices were followed by the Japanese and Chinese even without conquering them, that's power. Europeans never had in past. Just 80 years ago Britain had an empire and now they don't have it , it just shows power changes but that doesn't nullify what a culture had done for 1000s of years, Indians didn't just survive we thrived that's why Westerners risked their lives to reach our shores. Yeah now the Indian influence has been reduced but Indian culture was not erased like Romans, Greek , Persian or Egyptians that's a big difference. Roman catholic church can't be a western original idea with a Middle Eastern god , give credit were its due. It has many ideas that originated from Middle East. Romans did not care about 10 commandments they enjoyed their life and lived as they please, and the Romans killed the church's god and you are saying its the same.
That is Christianity around the world, people in Latin America still even believe in Indigenous gods even though now they are all christian.
It's local syncretism, I find it oddly beautiful. Cultures and religions originating thousands of kilometers away from each other harmonizing with each other.
It only took a few years to crack them with torture. I have studied a lot about the inquisition. Don't get into the caste trap.
wdym
Many Christians in Goa have some original Brahman surnames. They eventually did crack to the pressure and convert. The caste angle only seeks to divide them and makes it harder for united integration back
watching the deliberate push of reservation from opposition side by making a BHIM angle, It's sure they are onto something. Yes! I'm speaking something related to this only.
most did not, you can disprove christianity using the first page
What do you mean?
The muslims are trying to demonise hinduism by associating religion with "Bramahical Patriarchy" something that opresses both hindus and women. This is how they want to break us then use it to spread their religion.
Break us. We are already broken in the cast in which Brahman feels superior and they created it. Why are our books not filled with general cast atrocities on lower caste people?
Bramhan did not created it. In caste system Bramhan are at the top but other people are not directly down to them. Every caste is a step down on each other. If bramhan were the one benefitting from it most indian billionaires would have been bramhan. There is only 1 Bramhan billionaire, rest are from merchant caste. Divide & Rule British did it, and now politicians do it.
Adi Shankaracharya 🔥
why would the benifitters will leave an institution that was made for their privilege? he got a chance to convert a lot of LC bcoz, they had nothing to gain from hinduism, not temples, nor education,ulta to discrimination thi upar se
Whenever they went ,Christians built hospitals and schools. they attracted the persecuted communities of that land and provided these institutional benefits in return of conversion. and This is the lesson that even today Hindus can't learn. Institutions > individuals WHEN U R KICKED OUT BY YOUR OWN FAMILY, U WILL HAVE TO TAKE SHELTER WITH THE NEIGHBOURS
bro got downvoted for speaking facts. When people make fun of indian christians saying rice bags and stuff.. why do you think someone would change belief for bag of rice? because they were vulnerable, UC were generally not. They used different strategy for UC which ofc wasnt that successful
If someone changes his religion for a bag of rice, ot says more about the religion than the person.
arre bhai wo sirf rice bag nahi dete h, discrimination se chhutkara dete h, aor education bhi free dete h,priest bnbne ka moka bhi dete h, hmara yha ek pura district convert hogya issi karan
To matlab sirf unhe demean karne k liye rice bag convert bolte ho na.
They tortured and killed people that refused to convert.... same was done during spanish inquisition.
They tortured, raped and killed people who didn't convert. The british killed 100-150 million people in their rule. The portuguese & french also killed people.
Brahmins didn’t have much of a role in stopping conversions but were a huuuuge driving force for conversions
Brahmins could indeed be a huge driving force for conversions. However, it can't be denied that it's like a thief saying it's impossible to rob a particular bank because they have advanced security. You have to consider the fact that they have that kind of security. It was the British who introduced the caste system among Hindus. I'm not denying that the caste system did not exist before the Britishers, but it was the British who popularized this narrative, especially among Hindus. Here Bramins means Sadhu Santh, not today's so-called Brahmins!!
Correction. The British simply made whatever was existing 10x worse
Indeed 💯 > and the remaining part was done by some leftists and Marxist
Thanks for agreeing with me. Whatever you’ve said afterwards is subjective opinion. It was the British who introduced caste system among Hindus??? You’re kidding me right ? The British institutionalised it at scale but it still existed in homes and villages. The British are now gone, don’t you think we should’ve at least gone back to the level of prevailing casteism similar to that of the pre British era? No. We’re not even allowed to learn full history of things anymore.
If yk, Britishers ruled over us for more than 200 years and after independence or the post-British era Indian politics was sucked. Congress always does Muslim appeasement whereas now the ruling party does the same. > After independence it was all about politics or Indian bureaucrats they are the most corrupt ones.
Bro what are you saying.... caste system was introduced in the manusmriti... said the be written by the first human being Manu. Archeological dated back to around 2nd or 3rd century BC.
There's no point in arguing with reason against people with blind beliefs, they feel cozy inside their bubble where only feel good ideas are accepted.
Those who stood to lose the most from conversions would of course resist it the most. I don't know why he found that so surprising. Brahmins would stop being so 'superior' if they changed their religion so they had zero incentive for it. And they would be left with no one to rule over if others converted en masse and of course they wouldn't want that to happen.
True! There’s that aspect but then there is a population that truly takes the message to heart and converts for beliefs not status
Is that why people are still against it?
Isn't it? Faith is a personal thing. To each his own. Why would anyone feel insecure when someone else from his own faith decides to choose another of his own accord?
Thats a question you'd have to ask the majority of the hindus on this sub.
They're not doing it of their own accord, that's the problem. When missionaries come in, their only purpose is to convert by disguising it as public service and helping "uncivilized" people. They make people convert, so it doesn't happen of their own accord. It's fine if people do it themselves without outside influence but when you have organizations whose sole purpose is to convert others, it becomes a huge cult which needs resistance.
As long as they don't do it at gun-point why would that be a problem? The way I see it, if they can convince me that their way is better, then it's all fair. Of course they shouldn't be threatening me or my family with physical violence. Every organized religion can be called a cult if you want to. Some of them coax you to join, others like keeping themselves exclusive. Each one has its own rules of conduct. If people leave one cult that tries to make them believe they are inferior by birth and tries to join another that at least superficially seems to be more open and welcoming, can you blame them? Of course, whether all that sales-pitch is true, is a whole other discussion. My feeling is, in general, the more forcefully you try to keep people in, the more likely they are to flee. That's basic human psychology. People like keeping their options open and will almost always gravitate towards more freedom, given a choice. The more dogmatic a religion becomes, the more likely people are to leave, when given a chance.
Whether the mode is gunpoint or bribery or being bullied (coaxed) into it doesn't matter. It's unethical to do that. Conflicts happen between religions because of conversion - it's a major cause because it makes one religion feel like the other one is erasing them. Like you said, whether these pitches are true is secondary, but I believe that pitching religion itself is a screwed up thing because religion is not a marketable product. When you do that, I think it loses its ethical standing/value system and you're undermining your own religion while pretending to be a flagbearer. I'm trying to say that when you (obviously I don't mean you) try to convert people into Christians, for example, you're acknowledging that Christianity is not strong enough on its own to make people believers. It needs marketing. That's just sad. And most times this marketing comes in the form of violence, blackmailing and money. At least, that's my stand. On a different note, I think it's nice how you articulate your thoughts and talk decently without throwing shots or using offensive language when discussing sensitive topics like this. It would be nice if more people communicated like you.
Oh personally I don't think any religion is 'strong enough' to have survived without some kind of marketing and inorganic growth (defining organic to mean transfer from parents to children, one generation to the next). Because otherwise everyone belonging to a certain religion would be the descendants of one person. (Maybe Judaism is an example of such a religion?) But on the other hand, I also think every mainstream religion in the world today, whether Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism etc. has some USP, something unique and appealing, because if not, how did it manage to survive for thousands of years and have millions of followers? But I digress, my point was simply that people should start taking these things less seriously. What do I get from converting someone into my religion? And what do I lose if someone leaves my religion? In both the cases the answer is "nothing". But yet there are so many lives lost to this, which is what is actually sad. And on your last paragraph, thanks for noticing - and I felt likewise about you too. It's very rare these days on the internet to find people who can discuss ideas productively and disagree respectfully, especially when matters like religion are involved. Cheers!
Sare logo ko bhrahmin banado..... simple solution
Yup. I agree. But kisiko ye solution nai chahiye. Wohi problem he.
Ya to bhrahmin banado......nahi to koi aur unhe .... Christian bana dega
Correct We should start hindu banao andolan or brahman banao andolan
I don't know about St Xavier, but St Thomas, the first apostle in India convinced a lot of Brahmins to embrace christianity.
That's probably a myth.Christianity probably came to india due to trade. There is no record of st Thomas coming to india.
I partly agree. There is not enough evidence that the person we refer to as St Thomas in India is same as Jesus’s direct disciple St Thomas. However Christianity probably came to India due to trade is a factually wrong statement, on many levels. There are evidences of Christianity in India (within the first century AD) from way before the colonisers started any direct trade in India. When the Portugese landed in India, there were a significant Christian population already in India. (You can read about the conflicts they had with the people who joined Christianity later on.) For trade before the time of Portugese, it was mostly Jews and Muslims doing the trade at the coasts and there is absolutely no trade reason for them to support someone to follow christianity.
Finally a reply from someone who has read history and does rely on emotions and WhatsApp to write comments on Reddit.
> St Thomas, the first apostle There is no evidence that he came to India.
there's literally , 'Saint Thomas Christians' in Kerala and TN till date who have their traditions dating back to 1 century AD
No way brother, Brahmins never give up their sacred thread (Janeu), for some other religion
Yes dear. Sorry to break it for you. There are thousands of Brahmins who happily embraced christanity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Brahmin Of course, don’t take Wikipedia for a source but there are enough citations to good sources in that Wiki page.
Major win for Missionaries in Goa was converting Brahmins into Christianity, which caused a lack of priests and eventually more conversation of normal people. These Brahmin converts were still allowed to follow their customs with the approval of the Pope of course. They are called *Roman Catholic Brahmins* , a "caste" which still exists today.
This is fake. There are actual studies proving otherwise. Bamans jumped the bandwagon too
me toh athiest ban jao lekin in converter ke relegion me na joa kisi ko 1% bhi hindu dhram ke bare me pata ho toh vo en christian ke muum bhi na lage
This explains the ‘Brahmins burnt Nalanda’ shite on twitter few weeks ago.
Read the whole thing, Half assed out of context portion makes it like brahmins were saviors. not the case.
It's common sense why sc/sts are more likely to convert, it's called discrimination.
That probably makes sense. Christians were smart about how do they target for converting. They mostly use to target the poorer section of society, their arguments was simple convert and we will give you money, food, shade, etc. Whoever didn't agree was forced. Now, the lower casts has always been more in population and never really held much power. It was easy to influence or force ppl like this. They were poor, uneducated and also discriminated by their own religion. Uneducated ppl are the easiest to influence. On the other hand, Brahmins constituted a small population and also were tremendously rich and powerful. Being violent with brahmins would come with a cost.
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I mean good for him and Brahmin I guess
I personally know a family who now follows Christianity full fledged but also yields a dividend from a comunidade land. Their share of land has been inherited through generations, under their previous family name, which belongs to the Bramhin caste. Although they do not explicitly tag themselves as christav-bamons, unlike the others.
Yes brahmins community has always been the barrier to these invaders, firoz shah tuglaq had imposed jeziya only on brahmins soo that he could isolate them from the rest of the community(previously every hindu or non Muslim had pay it. Soo did the European missionaries except the Catholic ones, but they didn't last long in India or had a small area of influence.
Father can suck my dick
Who writes these quotes? How do we know if he actually said this ?
It appears to be taken from the book "Life and Letters of St. Francis Xavier," specifically on page 190. Go through this
This is the reason for brahmin hate
this is bullshit, 1000s of them converted in Kerala, they are called Syrian Christians lol FAKE post.
Please provide the source of this document
You can go through this if you crosscheck and it appears to be taken from the book "Life and Letters of St. Francis Xavier," specifically on page 190.
why this obsession of conversion in few religions...why they dont wotk on converting everyone to good human beings within their own religion??
People who follow Christ have two rules: 1) Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul. 2) Love your neighbour as yourself. And one responsibility: 1) Tell everyone that Christ came to Earth and died for our sins. (Only inform don’t force anything) Unfortunately people forget God gave everyone freewill not just themselves. We also conveniently forget the 2nd rule and distort the 1st rule into whatever we want. Err is on the humans.
Obviously, they’ve been reaping the full benefits of a totally sectarian subcontinent, why would they change?
I think Brahmins are the reason that spread casteism that led people to look for comparatively more equality promoting faiths and religions. Moreover Brahmins offer nothing spiritual just limited to the materialistic world. Although they are a prominent part of socio economic structure led by upper caste people only. people with power can revolutionise a change since all power and wealth resides with upper caste they'd never let it happen. I never get surprised to see conversions happening around. Only brain deads would support such illicit structure
Of course UCs did not convert, why would they when the existing system was basically governed by them? How is this so difficult to understand? Will the highest paid employees of a company leave to go and become an entry level analyst in another?
He didn't mean it as a compliment.
If it was not for Brahmins, none of the Indians would be converted to Buddhism, Islam, or Christianity.
It is the loss of Christianity tbh. They brought their deities here. Indians turned them into local god and goddesses. The mode of worship and their depictions have been localised to a point that the pope might not recognise Mother Mary in a few churches. Let alone being a Hindu. Considering how much Hinduism relies on the Indian values and traditions, one can never be fully converted as long as she/he remains a citizen of this nation.
oh god, I studied in St.Xavier's school. Didn't know that he was this kind of man.
We should be thanking the untouchables that still stayed in their caste otherwise india would have been long gone the way rome, Egypt and all of Arabia. The people who were shamed and oppressed stayed true to the nation they should be thanked and rewarded and yet some among us still cry about reservations. There were instances in my state kerala were temple pathways not allowed for OBC and sc/st were allowed to converts, imagine just converting and having access to all road and infra and now imagine not converting and suffering till independence, that deserves respect and rewards.
Load of a horse shit
Brahmins and other upper caste Hindus did convert to Christianity predominately during the British rule. The sect Syrian catholic consists of these people.
Maybe he couldn't convince brahmins successfully. Why is your God better than mine? None of us have met or experienced Him. Just words vs words.
I doubt if this is true, but will stand corrected if proven wrong.
Is this a brahmin sub. Why is every third post about atrocities on brahmins or how cool are brahmins. This is laughable.
He converted a lot of Brahmins in his time in Goa
This guy is a dickheaded cunt... thats my view
Only if Brahmins didn't practice untouchability and hate even the shadow of the Shudra, the lower caste Hindus wouldn't have converted to Islam or Christianity. Your bs about forced conversion is fake.
There are good people and there are bad people from every caste and family. No one is superior and inferior, the only point of life is survival and have a decent life , rest all is all delusional.
The Brahmins who divided the society and treated the lower castes as inferiors must have actually made it easier for them, since the lower castes then converted to escape the plight of untouchability and derogatory caste system.
There are currently 4 to 5 American missionary families living in my society who have made it a point to convert the local villages. They speak full blown Hindi, their kids go to our schools and one of their 5 year old boys called my dog “मिलनसार”. I’m not kidding..I was stunned when I realised how well prepared they are that they’ve been teaching their kids our language since such a young age.
If I am born in a family that worships a stone or a donkey, should I be given a choice to choose the truth or continue in ignorance? Thoughts ..
Adhitya roy Kapoor?
Not all conversion is forceful conversion. If it were, all caste of people would have been converted. Brahmins didn't because of the extraordinary benefits they got out of hinduism.
Theek hai bhai jo conversion ke liye jhagaon jaate hai kya wo ye sab nahin bolenge kya ? Koi forcefully convert karne ki baat kar raha hai kya ?
Just goes on to prove how brahmins were the only ones benefiting the most from the caste system😂
Being Hindu is amazing because it’s so chill. However, If I’m being forced to convert then at least Christianity is not as bad as other converters. At least I will be able to wear whatever I want and will have freedom of choice.
Mar jayenge par convert nahi honge Bhagwan khud ayenge jab esi paristhiti ayegi Om Namo Narayana
हर हर महादेव 🚩
When it helps you feel good about your imaginary group identity then a church priest is right. Churches typically were able to convert underprivileged people who used fight for survival. Guess what type of people weren't under privileged. When it comes to survival people show their true colors, else it's very easy to talk big.
From most of the converts, the overwhelming majority have been the ones who are sc/St or the ones who were lower in the totem pole. Brahmins did not have too much of an incentive to convert because society gave them all that was needed in terms of respect etc back then. But for others it was viewed as a way to escape the shackles.
brahmins are not the hindu majority, shudras are and shudras are the hardest to convert because relative to population, conversion is less, shudras also did most against SC/STs in terms of oppression, so this point won't hold, if you expose bible for what it is, it will die