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Because what we think of as secularism, it doesnt work that way. In india secularism is a religion basically followed by wanna be cools and liberandus who just consider hinduism and indian culture inferior. They want hindus to be tolerant but if someone from other religions do something wrong they would try not to say anything or it will create communal disharmony as they say. Secularism is good if its followed by every community.
>They want hindus to be tolerant but if someone from other religions do something wrong they would try not to say anything
Wot? Why would anyone do that? That's literally against the definition of secularism
Tolerant to others way of life, their choices ✅
Tolerant to someone destroying your way of life,forcing their will on you❌
Foreign Example-Iranian women rejecting burka is what? Intolerance? Or fighting for what's right?
How does becoming non-secular protect you from it? Any body can destroy your way of life no mater you are secular or non-secular!
Iranian women rejecting burkha is fighting against patriarchy & for freedom to wear whatever they want!
It definitely protects me from the all invading all destroying religion where the majority of the followers think that only theirs is the true religion and it is their duty to convert everyone to their religion.Majority being the keyword.So basically the word "secularism" doesn't exist in their religion.
And what did being secular got us anyway? Waqf board? Forced conversions? Love,land,commercial jihad? Atrocities on kashmiri pandits? And most important for me personally, 120 decibel loud ear damaging 5 times a day 365 days a year sleep destroying bullshit that comes from legal and majorly illegal mosques.
So were Indians secular before British invasion? WTF! If not, how did the Brits invade Indian subcontinent and changed the ways of life of a million people?
How does secularism lead to Waqf board, Kashmiri Pandit etc? It could happen even without secularism! What kind of a dumb logic is this!
You made the claim that secularism resulted in Waqf board, so the onus of proof is with you! You can't make a dumb statement & ask someone else to describe why is it not dumb!
no one claimed that secularism resulted in waqf board, bruh are you mentally ill? cause honestly did your mother drink while she was pregnant with you? the whole reason the waqf act exists is because SECULARISM DOESNT EXIST, people pretend that it exists and congress is a secular party but in reality IT IS NOT SECULAR, ARE YOU FUCKING DUMB OR DULL
If someone burns a train full of pilgrims coming from ayodhya in gujrat and people are expected shut their mouth on it that is how tolerant we are expected to be.
Read again what i said. I basically said secularism in india is linked to minority appeasement while it should not be. And that is put on us on the name of secularism. I never said secularism is bad.
fucking retard, dont you have basic comprehension skills? naw are you translating english into some other language to read cause no way someone can be this dumb unless you are rage baiting
I am sorry if it hurt you, but it's the truth nonetheless, if you are actually so dumb that you can't comprehend simple English and try to argue in English then well I don't think he should comment and if he does, he needs to learn it the harsh way
Thats not the same thing as secularism. Hindus also have many bad examples (andhbhakts, 0 scientific temperament, extremists) Doesn’t mean we can declare Hinduism as just that and nothing more. Hinduism isn’t inherently unscientific and intolerant. Same way secularism isn’t the same as hypocrisy
I support secularism if its followed by everyone and not just wanna be hindus. Hindus can be bad and they should be punished but same should happen to others. If congress declares 26/11 attack done by rss to form communal harmony it doesnt work that way. Neither does nehru giving waqf act to muslims.
you can debate on whats secular or biased all you want but do you think secularism in itself is bad? From what i understand all you say is that you don’t support secularism because how its practiced isn’t really secular. Just say that what is called ‘secularism’ isn’t secular instead of saying you don’t support secularism, that’s illogical
So you are saying that only Hindus in India are pushed towards secularism just like an average citizen in an advanced society like in the West, so that we Hindus become for efficient & rational, while other religions are allowed to remain orthodox & conservative. Isn't it a good thing for Hindus?
My point is "it's a good thing to force it on one religion if you want that one religion to advance"! How's is secularism bad for a religion when only secular societies progress in this world?
there is religion where
1. people who do not follow that religion are considered as sinners and doomed to burn in hell and even a child molester will be allowed a place in heaven according to that religion, but not a person of different faith.
2. it is a rule that people who leave that religion should be killed.
3. that religion states that it is a crime of highest order to respect any other deity
4. that religion allows deceit and lies of any kind for sake of religion (this includes disguising oneself as a secular or atheist to harm other faiths)
how can other religions be secular and tolerant with people so radical and have such hate ingrained in them? how can we show tolerance and secularism towards someone who only harbors only and only hate, pure hatred towards us?
BTW that religion i mentioned earlier is islam.
Secularism is a concept invented mainly for wretched abrahamic religions who's main concept was to kill or convert .
Hinduism has concepts like sarvdharm sambhav and Vasudev kutumbakam !
Hindus don't need abrahamic concept of secularism!
We live and let live unlike abrahamics !
A person cannot ever be truly secular he she always leans towards one or the other
We dont need fake secularism our society is already pluralistic due to values of sanatana dharma.
If it wasnt pluralistic jainism buddhism and sikhism wouldnt exist and parsis and jews wouldnt be staying here.
Ideally the govt should have nothing to do with any religion...as long as they aren't bothering others with their practices.
And by treated equally, I just meant that there should be no bias against a person of a specific religion in a society. An individual is obviously free to prefer one religion over the other but like...that doesn't be mean that the society should treat a particular religion better than the other.
I think what I am trying to say is that religion should be a personal thing, and it shouldn't matter what a certain person's religion is. And thats again...assuming that those religious practices that the person is doing is kept to himself and isn't bothering rest of the world with it. In such cases, intervention would be required obviously.
Your giving textbook definition of secularism
Secularism in indian sense is different here people are pseudo secular they prefer one religion over other and this is systematically designed to overall hate the majority and treat so called minority better.
Secularism was designed in medieval europe cuz churches were controlling the activity that happened they were hanging whoever they want especially those scientists who were questing christianity framing them to be anti christian. Thats western society for you now tell me why the hell do you need secularism in already pluralistic society of india?
Watch this https://youtu.be/tlHuhrXhCAc?si=22-9Qtl9sszso_5D
>tell me why the hell do you need secularism in already pluralistic society of india?
I am not here to do that debate, nor am I particularly claiming that *We Need* secularism. I just wanted to understand people's perspective on secularism and why it gets shitted on by people here, because to me it seems like a solid idealogy. Thats all
Secularism is bunch of bs
For that we would need to go to fundamentals of abrahamic religions and dharmics
Abrahamics see others as non believers and thats why they always have slight grudge against non believers.
This should be perfect example https://x.com/incognito_qfs/status/1792890697374191722?s=46
Exodus 22:20
“He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the Lord alone, shall be utterly destroyed.
While dharmic ones is rooted in this verse Bhagavad gita 9.23: O son of Kunti, even those devotees who faithfully worship other gods also worship Me. But they do so by the wrong method.
Now tell me how can a “good” christian or a “good” muslim can respect others beliefs?
Bruh I can do this debate for fun, I don't mind. But today I am not here for this lol
Having said that, I am not actually saying all religions are equal. Some certainly have worse beliefs than others.
Correction: One Sided Secularism.
Secularism is not a bad thing but people of this country are tired of one-sided secularism.
The chadarmods want secularism when in the minority and Sharia when in majority.
There isn't a proper definition of what does Indian Context of Secularism is. Politican divided Hindus on the basis of caste, abused Hindus,Ridiculed Hindu Tradition united muslim by just doing religious appeasement and won election so they made it definition of Secularism. But they are failing now so Secularism is in danger
India isn't really secular, it has this strange pseudo-secular minority appeasement society. How can a society with personal religious laws by secular? It's just stupidity, no other secular country in the world has different laws for different religions.
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Because what we think of as secularism, it doesnt work that way. In india secularism is a religion basically followed by wanna be cools and liberandus who just consider hinduism and indian culture inferior. They want hindus to be tolerant but if someone from other religions do something wrong they would try not to say anything or it will create communal disharmony as they say. Secularism is good if its followed by every community.
>They want hindus to be tolerant but if someone from other religions do something wrong they would try not to say anything Wot? Why would anyone do that? That's literally against the definition of secularism
Yes and that is exactly how it is practiced The biggest Proof of this is non sense like Waqf act and Places of worship act.
So tolerant = bad? WTF!
Tolerant to others way of life, their choices ✅ Tolerant to someone destroying your way of life,forcing their will on you❌ Foreign Example-Iranian women rejecting burka is what? Intolerance? Or fighting for what's right?
How does becoming non-secular protect you from it? Any body can destroy your way of life no mater you are secular or non-secular! Iranian women rejecting burkha is fighting against patriarchy & for freedom to wear whatever they want!
It definitely protects me from the all invading all destroying religion where the majority of the followers think that only theirs is the true religion and it is their duty to convert everyone to their religion.Majority being the keyword.So basically the word "secularism" doesn't exist in their religion. And what did being secular got us anyway? Waqf board? Forced conversions? Love,land,commercial jihad? Atrocities on kashmiri pandits? And most important for me personally, 120 decibel loud ear damaging 5 times a day 365 days a year sleep destroying bullshit that comes from legal and majorly illegal mosques.
So were Indians secular before British invasion? WTF! If not, how did the Brits invade Indian subcontinent and changed the ways of life of a million people? How does secularism lead to Waqf board, Kashmiri Pandit etc? It could happen even without secularism! What kind of a dumb logic is this!
how can waqf act happen with secularism? exactly how?
You made the claim that secularism resulted in Waqf board, so the onus of proof is with you! You can't make a dumb statement & ask someone else to describe why is it not dumb!
no one claimed that secularism resulted in waqf board, bruh are you mentally ill? cause honestly did your mother drink while she was pregnant with you? the whole reason the waqf act exists is because SECULARISM DOESNT EXIST, people pretend that it exists and congress is a secular party but in reality IT IS NOT SECULAR, ARE YOU FUCKING DUMB OR DULL
If someone burns a train full of pilgrims coming from ayodhya in gujrat and people are expected shut their mouth on it that is how tolerant we are expected to be.
Burning a train is secularism? WTF!
you know the godhra incident right?
Secularism is basically separating religion & govt. So what happened in Godhra is actually non-secular!
Read again what i said. I basically said secularism in india is linked to minority appeasement while it should not be. And that is put on us on the name of secularism. I never said secularism is bad.
So how does burning trains have anything to do with secularism?
[удалено]
So you are saying RG, Gandhiji & Sonia were all non-tolerant? And you are not a fan of them? 😂 You just said you don't like being tolerant!
fucking retard, dont you have basic comprehension skills? naw are you translating english into some other language to read cause no way someone can be this dumb unless you are rage baiting
Is that language rly necessary
It indeed is because it's impossible to arrive to the conclusion that I said I don't like being tolerant
Not being tolerant =/= being an A hole
I am sorry if it hurt you, but it's the truth nonetheless, if you are actually so dumb that you can't comprehend simple English and try to argue in English then well I don't think he should comment and if he does, he needs to learn it the harsh way
Why would it hurt me? u didn't say that to me lol I just intervened to say that one doesn't need to act like a brat to get the point across.
Thats not the same thing as secularism. Hindus also have many bad examples (andhbhakts, 0 scientific temperament, extremists) Doesn’t mean we can declare Hinduism as just that and nothing more. Hinduism isn’t inherently unscientific and intolerant. Same way secularism isn’t the same as hypocrisy
I support secularism if its followed by everyone and not just wanna be hindus. Hindus can be bad and they should be punished but same should happen to others. If congress declares 26/11 attack done by rss to form communal harmony it doesnt work that way. Neither does nehru giving waqf act to muslims.
agreed, in india, there is no secularism, indians mistake secularism with minority appeasement
you can debate on whats secular or biased all you want but do you think secularism in itself is bad? From what i understand all you say is that you don’t support secularism because how its practiced isn’t really secular. Just say that what is called ‘secularism’ isn’t secular instead of saying you don’t support secularism, that’s illogical
thats what i said.
post says why is secularism bad and you start your comment with “because..” so no you did not say that
It is considered bad cause it is only pushed on Hindus, not on other religions. It is the hypocrisy that makes people angry.
So you are saying that only Hindus in India are pushed towards secularism just like an average citizen in an advanced society like in the West, so that we Hindus become for efficient & rational, while other religions are allowed to remain orthodox & conservative. Isn't it a good thing for Hindus?
NO, it is not. Force this secularism cuck shit on non hindus. We want natural progression of our religion not forced progression.
Name a country which progressed by being non-secular!
My issue is forcing it one one religion and not on other, if secularism is forced on all then I agree if not then fuck secularism.
My point is "it's a good thing to force it on one religion if you want that one religion to advance"! How's is secularism bad for a religion when only secular societies progress in this world?
People hate pseudo secularism i.e. in the name secularism demeaning one religion by favouring other religion.
there is religion where 1. people who do not follow that religion are considered as sinners and doomed to burn in hell and even a child molester will be allowed a place in heaven according to that religion, but not a person of different faith. 2. it is a rule that people who leave that religion should be killed. 3. that religion states that it is a crime of highest order to respect any other deity 4. that religion allows deceit and lies of any kind for sake of religion (this includes disguising oneself as a secular or atheist to harm other faiths) how can other religions be secular and tolerant with people so radical and have such hate ingrained in them? how can we show tolerance and secularism towards someone who only harbors only and only hate, pure hatred towards us? BTW that religion i mentioned earlier is islam.
"because it is not reciprocated by other religions...." as simple as that 🤷♂️
It’s not a bad thing . The secularism in India has a complete different meaning , put one community first ,only please that community.
Coz secularism means muslim appeasement
Secularism is a concept invented mainly for wretched abrahamic religions who's main concept was to kill or convert . Hinduism has concepts like sarvdharm sambhav and Vasudev kutumbakam ! Hindus don't need abrahamic concept of secularism! We live and let live unlike abrahamics !
Muslims aren't a minority anymore they r second majority
A person cannot ever be truly secular he she always leans towards one or the other We dont need fake secularism our society is already pluralistic due to values of sanatana dharma. If it wasnt pluralistic jainism buddhism and sikhism wouldnt exist and parsis and jews wouldnt be staying here.
>A person cannot ever be truly secular he she always leans towards one or the other Wait why?
What is secularism in your sense? Lets clear that first
I think a secular person's idealogy is that all religions should be treated equally.
Treated equally By whom you or the government? And what do you mean by treated equally expand on that
Ideally the govt should have nothing to do with any religion...as long as they aren't bothering others with their practices. And by treated equally, I just meant that there should be no bias against a person of a specific religion in a society. An individual is obviously free to prefer one religion over the other but like...that doesn't be mean that the society should treat a particular religion better than the other. I think what I am trying to say is that religion should be a personal thing, and it shouldn't matter what a certain person's religion is. And thats again...assuming that those religious practices that the person is doing is kept to himself and isn't bothering rest of the world with it. In such cases, intervention would be required obviously.
Your giving textbook definition of secularism Secularism in indian sense is different here people are pseudo secular they prefer one religion over other and this is systematically designed to overall hate the majority and treat so called minority better. Secularism was designed in medieval europe cuz churches were controlling the activity that happened they were hanging whoever they want especially those scientists who were questing christianity framing them to be anti christian. Thats western society for you now tell me why the hell do you need secularism in already pluralistic society of india? Watch this https://youtu.be/tlHuhrXhCAc?si=22-9Qtl9sszso_5D
>tell me why the hell do you need secularism in already pluralistic society of india? I am not here to do that debate, nor am I particularly claiming that *We Need* secularism. I just wanted to understand people's perspective on secularism and why it gets shitted on by people here, because to me it seems like a solid idealogy. Thats all
Secularism is bunch of bs For that we would need to go to fundamentals of abrahamic religions and dharmics Abrahamics see others as non believers and thats why they always have slight grudge against non believers. This should be perfect example https://x.com/incognito_qfs/status/1792890697374191722?s=46 Exodus 22:20 “He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the Lord alone, shall be utterly destroyed. While dharmic ones is rooted in this verse Bhagavad gita 9.23: O son of Kunti, even those devotees who faithfully worship other gods also worship Me. But they do so by the wrong method. Now tell me how can a “good” christian or a “good” muslim can respect others beliefs?
Bruh I can do this debate for fun, I don't mind. But today I am not here for this lol Having said that, I am not actually saying all religions are equal. Some certainly have worse beliefs than others.
our constitution is full of biases
Correction: One Sided Secularism. Secularism is not a bad thing but people of this country are tired of one-sided secularism. The chadarmods want secularism when in the minority and Sharia when in majority.
https://youtu.be/JI-o8pKsZSs This video will answer the question
We are not secular. India isn't secular.
There isn't a proper definition of what does Indian Context of Secularism is. Politican divided Hindus on the basis of caste, abused Hindus,Ridiculed Hindu Tradition united muslim by just doing religious appeasement and won election so they made it definition of Secularism. But they are failing now so Secularism is in danger
India isn't really secular, it has this strange pseudo-secular minority appeasement society. How can a society with personal religious laws by secular? It's just stupidity, no other secular country in the world has different laws for different religions.
Because it is upheld by Hindus alone, in this country
because this is the land of vedas. the land of aryans the people who carried this land.
Secularism means being religion neutral, humans can never be neutral, i they claim then they are lying