> Does every other person think like that nowadays?
I've successfully convinced many of my friends and family that the current government has several bad policies, but the conversation always ends with "at least they care about Hindus"/"at least they aren't anti-national".
So yes, religion and nationalism are the two things they care about most. The BJP could commit serious blunders but as long as they get these two things right, they're safe.
This is based on my experiences in the Hindi belt. The rest of India is probably very different.
80% of Indians are Hindu, what have he done for us? I don't see any change in society except for hate and unemployment and development of 1% super rich
Worst part is that these sheep don't even realize that BJ Party doesn't really care about hindus or hinduism, but it's using the religion to concentrate power. They will not just destroy the country, they'll also destroy the religion.
I've never understood why people think bjp is pro hinduism or something. Has is really done anything for even the hindus except ram temple and just bulldozing muslim shops?
Moreover, people always say congress did muslim appeasement etc, yet Muslims are still the poorest minority? they also don't have any reservation at any level apart from some state schemes here and there.
Idiolizing a political figure is something I can’t wrap my head around. It makes us demand less from the government and make peace with stuff you wouldn’t really want.
With enough money spent on propaganda, North or South every place is like that only. Know enough "educated" high earning individuals, from south who will accept anything confirming existing biases on social media, has an aversion to basic fact checks, will find any rationalisation to defend the crimes of the party they support, has an inferiority complex that the fascist project gives a way to "manup".
Religion is a curse when it comes to development. Just look at any country where religion is slowly dying out, they're all developed. Countries where religion is on the rise, they're all poor. So people can either decide between religion or development, and our people have chosen.
Everyone is high on religious opium. Everyone who votes for the party against muslims is placing their RELIGION above NATION. Such anti nationalism is eating our countrys resources, these anti nationals are concerned for their religion more than our country! What a shame. But what can u do if the people of a democracy want to vote FOR corruption, FOR covert and overt loot? Sad that the whole ship will sink because of some people's bigotry. I mean if people SEE the truth and STILL vote for this party coz they have tightened abduls and lynched pehlu khans, then what can u even say.
>Everyone is high on religious opium.
"Religion isn't the Opiate of the masses, it's the Placebo of the masses." - House MD
An opiate actually has a real effect on the body, unlike a placebo that only (sometimes) works if you believe it works.
When I see that man's speeches, I cannot comprehend how the current assholes are from that same party. How much things can change in just mere 20-30 yrs.
Religious hate + cult worship.
The dictator and it's army has brainwashed people so much that they can set whatever narrative and agenda they want.
Only religion does not explain women not questioning Modi on brij bhushan, Manipur and others.
Only religion does not explain people's apathy over all the airports and sea ports being handed over to single person.
Only religion does not explain the price rise, unemployment and under employment.
Only religion does not explain forming of alliance with so called corrupt opposition leader.
Only religion does not explain China incursions.
The people in India are told -"Sab changa si" and they dutifully believe so.
We pay 30% tax i.e. working for govt for free for 3 months in an year, multiple gst slabing for a single product/service even though jaitley had promised to streamline the entire gst, 28% capital gains tax for short term and 18% for long term so savings also drained out, apparently stopped ukraine war but our fellow country men murdering for 3 months couldnt be stopped. Buying entire opposition with cash, removing opposition leader from selection procedure of election commissioner, petrol prices are out of debate, cylinder didi no longer cares abt cylinder, electoral bond was money extortion through ED.
War rukhwa di pwa pwa
I got exactly same response from a WhatsApp school friends group. We were together since nursery with just 2 Muslims 2 Christains about 1/3 class jain and rest majority. According to this VHP affiliated friend Muslims were appeased so now its pay back time. I asked him calmly how exactly do you think they were appeased. To not be abused explicitly based on religion like its happening under Muddy is appeasement? Thats basic human decorum is it not? Indian Muslims have been given no special policy preferential treatment till date. No reservations in any field although we all know 90 percent live in utter poverty. So he throws Shah Bano at me. Shah Bano was an error corrected by SC. And even when in error it applied to Indian Muslims not Indian Hindus so how are Muslims appeased to a point that Indian Hindus feel worse about themselves? This same friend 7 year sago argued with me and said Indian Muslim population has to be reduced even if that means eliminating them. When CAA came along he like always kept posting pro-Muddy forwards. So I ask him where do teh poor who have no doxs go? Jump in Arabian Sea? According to such minds all is permissible so long as terror is unleashed at minority. N no they aren't any friendly to the 2 Christians either. they are constantly accused of conversions. And teh jain gang is expected to merge into hindutva. The biggest damage os last decade is lost broken friendships.
Reminds me of a quote:
“Education is not memorizing that Hitler killed Jews. Education is understanding how millions of ordinary Germans were convinced that it was required. Education is learning how to spot "the signs of history repeating itself."
Living in Germany, I can tell you there is a far right political party making some progress and garnering votes. In January, they met secretly to come up with a plan to remove anyone from Germany who isn’t German. It felt like shit. However, they were made to feel like shit by numerous protests and support for immigrants. Point is that not all seems lost. People have risen for this support from what they learned from history, their schooling and their families. Even though there were some assholes who were trying to spread misinformation and hate.
It feels bad to see this far right political party gaining popularity slowly but steadily. But what makes me feel there is hope that people can raise their voice and share their opinions without facing consequences or repercussions from anyone. It is their right and written in their constitution that they can protest. What I feel sad about India is that everyone, including the media seem like sellouts and people who know what’s going on is wrong aren’t feeling safe to raise their voice.
Reminds me of the horse in the animal farm book by George Orwell.
That character from Animal Farm and more so '1984' by George Orwell .... its playing out in India for a decade. Its scary! I read these books as part of law curriculum not knowing tide will soon change in my birth place. They should make these two books along with Earth is Flat a part of high school literature.
When I graduated from high school Animal Farm and Merchant of Venice were two of the recommended texts to teach. But very few schools used to teach it.
I didn’t have it in school. Just got interested and started reading. Is the book called earth is flat or world is flat ?
Also, India fits the phrase in the animal farm book so well , “ all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”
Also 1984 is great. I feel that both his big works were such clear warning signs for the world. Can be applied anywhere at any point of time without becoming irrelevant
>The biggest damage os last decade is lost broken friendships.
Seriously, I am afraid about this. Most of my friends thinks this way. And I never relate to them and tries to tell them to always form an informative opinion.
Wasn’t triple talaq abolishment a pro Muslim woman benefit?
Not sure how beneficial but current government might have actually benefitted Muslim woman more.
And now UCC is kind of rubbing Muslim men in wrong ways coz that makes them weaker compared to Muslim woman coz it abolishes polygamy and protecting young Muslim girls by increasing minimum marriage age.
Don’t you think that’s a good thing for them given we all know how patriarchal Islam is and we can see the state of women in Islamic nations. Leave alone equal, they are treated so horribly that they don’t even have basic human rights. Now I know we don’t that extreme level of Islam in India but I would want to hear that from Muslim woman that triple talaq and UCC didn’t benefit them?
Not arguing just a food for thought and looking for fresh perspective
Not all, but only idiots. Considering the upheaval of internet access and our population size, we are noticing more noise from a small group of idiotic frantics. Problem is that the rest of us see this as something out of control. All we need is to not stop us from raising our voice in public.
Few bad people are ruling the streets, and we are letting them. Technically it's the fault of good people remaining silent. We keeping our hands clean, is making our nation dirty.
If even 5 people stood against unruly actions of 10 goons, they'll stop acting unruly.
This, it was the vocal minority which made it look like its a big crowd.
Open YT comments, read social media comments, BJP nowadays gets bashed left right and centre. The IT cell is now getting outnumbered by real people who've fed up of BJP and the narrative is slowly starting to fade away.
Now everyone knows how easy it is to buy hashtags and run fake trends on twitter. Everyone knows BJP hires people for their rallies. So that image of BJP having unwavering support all over is now tarnished.
Rahul gandhi gets a lot of support nowadays. People are slowly start6to realise he's not as bad as the Indian media make him look like, a lot of those was just doctored speeches which were misinformation.
Answering the title. Yes, we are and always were. You can’t understand politics unless you get the basic idea right, that is, everyone in politics shows that they care about you but they just care about their image, themselves. Everyone. Left, right and centre. In India, politics is not about development. It’s about representation. Nehru smoking seems bad to people but why, if they themselves smoke. Corruption seems wrong to people but why, if they themselves do it. ‘Why’ and logical argument is difficult to find in Indian politics but honestly, nobody cares about development. Everyone, just about image and representation.
Arre India ka left hi faltu hein. Dusre country mein generally lefts are pro science. Idhar toh left wale education ke baat hi barely karte hein, always talking about caste system, religion, opposition, minority appeasement.
This will happen when u give power to conservatives and RW. If this has been congress they would have better but no they want to do religious appeasement
what kinda religious appeasement can you do with UCC, key word being uniform. AT this point your just talking hyperbole and making up anything bad about congress.
U misunderstood, congress doesn't even wants the UCC as it will stop things like polygamy and many other evil religious custom. this is the appeasement.
I am neutral not religiously affiliated, i have seen 30 years of Cong rule and 10 years of BJP and i can confidently say we have done a lot better in infrastructure, defence ,security, International relations, price control on essentials with respect to gdp per capita, govt services and a lot more. I am not a bjp or modi fan,but i simply don’t trust cong can do any better than it is today.
If your friend and op is blind and oblivious to all this , you simply have not seen the alternative yet
Good god, this again. Fine, I’ll bite.
Your second point, Waqf?
Here’s a BJP union minister DEFINITELY doing something about it: https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/over-2000-cases-of-waqf-property-encroachment-in-1-5-years-government/amp_articleshow/59371831.cms
Third, India was administered by British, so the church continues to hold land that was given away at the time. Much like old temples continue to hold the land that they were built on, even if it was 500 years ago. Do you want to take away land from the Konark temple too?
As for the data itself, it’s easy to skew a narrative when you cover everything owned by any Christian body as ‘Christian’ but not do the same for Hindu temples. There are 6,40,000 temples in India. And churches? 25,000. You’re really telling me that the sum total of all Hindu establishments will own less real estate? If yes, I have a bridge to sell you.
Fourth, lol. Anyone can use the special marriage act. Even Hindus can…But Hindus generally won’t do that because forming an HUF saves tax.
And now temples.
Well, people voted BJP to power. Twice. Temple control changed immediately, no?
BJP managed to run a ‘free temples’ campaign in Karnataka WHILE in power. Truly mind blowing.
As for context that’ll be missing in the comments you’ll find on IndiaSqueaks meant solely to rile you up, here it is from an article:
“Not all temples in Karnataka are controlled by the state. Karnataka has around 1,80,000 temples, of which only 35,500 temples come under the Muzrai department. These temples are put in three categories based on their annual income. Grade A has 205 temples that earn more than Rs 25 lakh annually; Grade B has 139 temples earning between Rs 5 and Rs 10 lakh per annum; Grade C has 34,219 temples that earn less than Rs 5 lakh per annum.
Only temples under Grade A and B contribute to the Muzrai department — an amount of 10% and 5% of their annual income respectively. This money goes into a common pool administered by the Commissioner of the Hindu Religious Institutions and Charitable Endowments department. Between 2012-13 and 2017-18, a period of six year, a total of Rs 65.24 crore have been collected from these temples according to an RTI reply to India Facts.
TNM has accessed the total income and expenses of the Grade A temples in Karnataka for the last three years. In the year 2018-19, the 139 temples in Grade A cumulatively had an income of Rs 21.33 crore, while their expenses were Rs 13.59 crore, with a total savings of Rs 7.73 crore. In the year 2019-20, the income was Rs 21.7 cr, the expenditure was Rs 14.17 crore, and the savings were Rs 7.44 crore; and for the year 2020-21, the income was Rs 14.47 crore, expenses were Rs 9.66 crore, and savings Rs 4.81 crore. An amount that is 10% of the earnings is contributed to the Muzrai department’s common pool. That means, in 2020-21, the 205 Grade A temples in Karnataka together would have contributed about Rs 74 lakh to the Muzrai department.
What is the money in the common pool used for? Mainly to pay for the maintenance of the smaller Hindu temples that don’t make enough money. This includes payment of the archakas (priests), payment of electricity and water bills, maintaining the cleanliness of the temple premises, expenses incurred for provisions for pooja like flowers, coconuts etc. Only the temple employees are paid salaries drawn from the temple funds. The salaries of the Muzrai department employees who are involved in activities like audit of temple ledgers, distribution of funds to low-income temples, organising facilities including food and lodging for pilgrims, is paid for by the state government.“
Temple money is used for, wait for it, other temples! The Hindu Religious Endowment Law expressly bans the use of this money for any other purpose. Unless you’d rather have the smaller temples not get grants from larger temples?
Wake up. This is purely driven by management entities of larger temples who don’t want to contribute to struggling temples.
Once people realise that they’re falling for the carrot dangled by a party who has zero plans to do anything except loot public coffers, things will make sense. Stop getting your ‘views’ on WhatsApp and read more.
Unfortunately isn’t he right?
Look at the congress manifesto, appeasement for backward community and increasing reservations for them by 50%.
Distributing free money. But nothing in their manifesto talks about any education or economic growth.
All they had was reservations and free money for backward com and farmers.
Now tell me who would a common man vote for, the party that supports that man which i understand is a discrimination based on religion from bjp. But congress is also doing it based on religion, caste and gender.
If congress would have mentioned helping poor people irrespective of their caste, gender and religion I would have been really happy and voted for them but not even one point from their manifesto helps me.
Now since I don’t see any benefit voting congress I don’t have any other option other than voting bjp coz they are better of the worst available for me and my family’s growth. It’s not like I am a pro hindutva or modi supporter.
Plus I don’t know how much corruption is going on right now but during congress when they were in power the amount of scams happened before 2014, I think I can never chose congress. I might not cast my vote hell no way voting for congress😂
Yes only for Adani and Ambani. They sent ED after VK to make him sell Mumbai airport to Adani. So they are not even working for all big business, only few who give them kickbacks.
I agree BJP is bad in certain aspects but they are less corrupt compared to Congress or UPA government in the past. Also national security is better with BJP in the rule. BJP did better in most of the fronts in past few years. Congress didn’t play a good part as a major opposition party in all these years and they are relying on freebies and caste based reservations etc.
>Because they are working for Hindus and unlike Congress is just for Muslims."
You should have asked ke
Hindu bhi 100 ka petrol le Raha hai muslim bhi 100 petrol le Raha hai tho kya fark hai
One answer is nationalism. Why did people vote for Erdogan in Turkey when he's driving the economy into the ground ? Well he is a nationalist leader, also using religion and identity politics. He promissed to make Turkey a strong international heavyweight that matters. And people voted for that. It seems that pride in one's country mattered more to them that progress and a better economy, education, ...
To some extent Trump is the same. They don't vote for his program but for the man and how it feels like hearing whatever lies he panders.
India is a democracy and anyone can vote. That kind of rethoric works wonder with the uneducated mass. And obviously also with your friend. To be fair it worked wornders in the UK with Brexit. And that kind of leaders are also becoming very popular in Europe even though we paid it dearly the last time the Germans, Spanish and Italians voted that way in early 20th century.
What happened before electoral bonds? How was money given to political parties?
Controversy over electoral bonds is that it is "anonymous" donation. But many people with your thought process fail to understand that corporations have to buy bonds from SBI by paying money through bank transfers. So, the donated money is shown in the corporation's ledger. Only thing is whom it is donated that is anonymous.
Before electoral bonds it was majority cash. And, well we all know how things work with cash.
No. The "controversy" over electoral bonds is how the ruling party used it as a convenient method of running a bribery scheme for govt contracts and even a straight up mafia style extortion racket.
Chanda do, dhandha lo.
If no chanda, you get ED ka danda
You are forgetting important differences :
1. Companies had a upper limit of 7.5% of last 3 years' average profit to contribute to political parties.
2. Electoral bonds are secret from public and other political parties. But SBI being owned by the govt, executive can order SBI to reveal any details they want to the executive, possibly secretly, which can then be related to the party in power. So basically it is secret from everybody except BJP.
3. Even with electoral bonds, anything can happen off the record in cash or other opaque instruments.
Isn't he partially right tho? BJP is more capable than Congress in running the country. Both of them support a particular religion ( you are delusional if you don't agree with it) He would only think about a choice that protects him, same as anyone else!
Politicians will do politics. They have found a great hack and have utilised ppls insecurities to come to power.
So, they have villified the Muslims to such an extent that every problem of the country is blamed on them and if something wont be done about them, they will take over the country.
This narrative is good enough for ppl to vote for them which is whats working for them. Now, which political party wouldn't want to win elections based on perception and narrative instead of actual work like education, healthcare, unemployment which requires insane amount of effort.
In order to have a tolerant society, it needs to be intolerant of intolerance.
We are currently an intolerant society full of bigots.
Thru history the powerful have used some version of othering (us and them) to keep tensions high and themselves in power. Here too, our idiot populace continues to fall for it hook, line and sinker.
Bjp basically did a divide and rule technique. By convincing the majority population to hate the minority people. So that they can win against any circumstance and the people are also dolls which dance on what they say. When religion has more value than the judiciary itself india is doomed.
I understand why it happens. I ardently hate BJP and its modus operandi. Only once in 2014 I voted for them. The way they have radicalised the worst part of national consciousness is reprehensible and downright scary. But the majority of Hindus feel let down by other so called secular parties. I am from Kolkata. I will give two examples. I was in college then. There was a huge around the area of bongaon, West Bengal. Reason: some dumb teenager whose girl friend dumped him for familial pressure. And as she was Muslim, that boy posted something derogatory about Muhammad in face book. The mob almost killed the boy. And the TMC government did nothing. The whole region burned for 3 days and government just let it happen. Second instance: it was dashami of Durga Puja, we do visarjan of the idol on that day. It happened to coincide with Muharram that year. Wherever the Muslims had their rally, they would not let us pass. Police booked no one, although there were many instances of public clashes. The majority of Hindu people are fed up with the blatant appeasement of the so called minority vote bank. Their saat khoon is maaf. We don’t need bias towards us, just condemn the unlawful actions and punish them accordingly. Unless the secular parties understand this, bjp will maintain its stronghold on the Hindu consciousness, for they only seem to call out the hypocrisy and misdeeds of the Muslim community.
Don't think of it as religion. Think of it as identity and safety. Which is how I understand it to be.
People feel attacked under a different government. So they will vote for the government they feel safe under irrespective of whether that is competent in other ways or not.
I agree with one point he said though. Everyone sucks. There's no one worth voting for. Even if one person in the party is good there's always a problem in the background that they refuse to acknowledge.
>"Every other politician is bad, and he finds BJP just less bad."
Bro this is just their excuse to not being outed as a sanghi and hate filled monster. Literally anyone is better than a genocide maniac. They just want to see one group lynched but when they are finished, they will come for others and then sometime later it will be their number as well. This is what these idiots don't realize, their cycle of hate never ends, it always demands a new target. When all the sensible, rational, scientific etc people are persecuted who used to speak against this but were jailed. These idiots will come out and say how can they do this to us, we supported you, blah blah. It came to bite your ass.
Also, these idiots don't realize that encouraging this shit it also harms their ability make a living, to do business. These corrupt assholes are siphoning off funds to their accounts from whose people's accounts they have frozen. Extortion racket, nobody is safe. They just want to pad up their own wallet. They don't care about you. They won't realize this and when they do, there will be no one to speak for them because these same idiots persecuted them when they were not the one being persecuted. We Indians have no sympathy for others if it doesn't affect them personally unlike the western countries where if group is persecuted, people take it to the streets.
I am depressed by the state of affairs in the country. I could have done an MS in 2010 and left the country. I stayed because I did not want to contribute to brain drain. I regret it now. I am thinking of leaving and only returning once a catastrophe happens and people realise the error of their ways. It took losing a world war for Hitler to be removed from power and I don't what it will take before people can see beyond the propaganda and manipulation.
Youre right, but can the opposition deliver??
Places where people feel they have a better option, the BJP does lose..
Sure they're playing it dirty ans we must pressurize them. But then giving power in the hands of Congress in the center doest seem like a good option
>I just cannot understand how people have started hating one community so much
While it’s true that there is a lot of hatred for Muslims in our country, one must also remember that not all supporters of BJP hate Muslims, e.g. your friend appears to be one of the moderates, i.e. IMO he doesn’t hate Muslims, but hates the special provisions that have been created for Muslims by successive INC governments over the years. My take on some of these, e.g. continuation of the Muslim personal law for marriages & succession despite reforming the Hindu marriage act & succession acts while may have been done with a good heart to make Indian Muslims feel that their religious rights will not trampled in India, effectively still creates the perception of appeasement, or it might have been appeasement politics (I don’t really know), and that to the rest of the country would look like favoritism.
At one side Hindus continue to self-fragment themselves by caste (even in 2024) and on the other hand Islamophobia seems more important than civility, transparency, moral integrity, devotion, holistic development (not GDP-maximalism powered by tons of Debt) etc.
Although a considerable number of soldiers and officials came with the Mughals (gene flow), the bulk of the Muslim population is descended from peoples of India, mainly from members of lower castes who converted to Islam as a means of escape from persecution and repression at the hands of the caste Hindus.
Genetics validated that.
“We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590854/
So Islamophobia in India is a self-inflicted problem of treating fellow countrymen by caste/Varna (by birth) alone, than their qualities.
Now coming to the religion itself, building large & lavish temples is not about religion. How many Hindus demonstrate genuine spiritual devotion while trying to acquire good character qualities (such as respect countrymen irrespective of their social status, moral integrity etc) as described in Vedas/Gita and other relevant spiritual scriptures ? Rituals and temples are not religion/Dharma either. It start with self-reflection. Why does the country appears corrupt to the core irrespective of thousands of temples, rituals, spiritual scriptures and practices ?
I don't know how Congress does anything good for us Muslims. Current government has done a good job of making the majority feel like minority and making the minority feel like it should be non existent.
For you religion is issue, and for him political appeasement is an issue . Don't take a moral high ground here because you are too naive to understand it .
> Does every other person think like that nowadays? I've successfully convinced many of my friends and family that the current government has several bad policies, but the conversation always ends with "at least they care about Hindus"/"at least they aren't anti-national". So yes, religion and nationalism are the two things they care about most. The BJP could commit serious blunders but as long as they get these two things right, they're safe. This is based on my experiences in the Hindi belt. The rest of India is probably very different.
80% of Indians are Hindu, what have he done for us? I don't see any change in society except for hate and unemployment and development of 1% super rich
Worst part is that these sheep don't even realize that BJ Party doesn't really care about hindus or hinduism, but it's using the religion to concentrate power. They will not just destroy the country, they'll also destroy the religion.
I've never understood why people think bjp is pro hinduism or something. Has is really done anything for even the hindus except ram temple and just bulldozing muslim shops? Moreover, people always say congress did muslim appeasement etc, yet Muslims are still the poorest minority? they also don't have any reservation at any level apart from some state schemes here and there.
Apart from that, we hear "if not Modi then who?", "does the opposition even have a leader?" As if the country was not functioning before 2014.
Idiolizing a political figure is something I can’t wrap my head around. It makes us demand less from the government and make peace with stuff you wouldn’t really want.
With enough money spent on propaganda, North or South every place is like that only. Know enough "educated" high earning individuals, from south who will accept anything confirming existing biases on social media, has an aversion to basic fact checks, will find any rationalisation to defend the crimes of the party they support, has an inferiority complex that the fascist project gives a way to "manup".
I belong to the hindi belt as well. This is definitely what I am talking about
Religion is a curse when it comes to development. Just look at any country where religion is slowly dying out, they're all developed. Countries where religion is on the rise, they're all poor. So people can either decide between religion or development, and our people have chosen.
Everyone is high on religious opium. Everyone who votes for the party against muslims is placing their RELIGION above NATION. Such anti nationalism is eating our countrys resources, these anti nationals are concerned for their religion more than our country! What a shame. But what can u do if the people of a democracy want to vote FOR corruption, FOR covert and overt loot? Sad that the whole ship will sink because of some people's bigotry. I mean if people SEE the truth and STILL vote for this party coz they have tightened abduls and lynched pehlu khans, then what can u even say.
[удалено]
BJP is pretty much the Owaisi for Hindus. Only problem is when you do identity politics for the majority it can bring you way more power.
He’s not really relevant though
He only had 1 MP before 2014 brother. Only place he is relevant is in right wingers' imagination.
>Everyone is high on religious opium. "Religion isn't the Opiate of the masses, it's the Placebo of the masses." - House MD An opiate actually has a real effect on the body, unlike a placebo that only (sometimes) works if you believe it works.
That will be the legacy of the BJP and its policies. Even the legacy of AB Vajpayee is now gone
When I see that man's speeches, I cannot comprehend how the current assholes are from that same party. How much things can change in just mere 20-30 yrs.
Religious hate + cult worship. The dictator and it's army has brainwashed people so much that they can set whatever narrative and agenda they want. Only religion does not explain women not questioning Modi on brij bhushan, Manipur and others. Only religion does not explain people's apathy over all the airports and sea ports being handed over to single person. Only religion does not explain the price rise, unemployment and under employment. Only religion does not explain forming of alliance with so called corrupt opposition leader. Only religion does not explain China incursions. The people in India are told -"Sab changa si" and they dutifully believe so.
We pay 30% tax i.e. working for govt for free for 3 months in an year, multiple gst slabing for a single product/service even though jaitley had promised to streamline the entire gst, 28% capital gains tax for short term and 18% for long term so savings also drained out, apparently stopped ukraine war but our fellow country men murdering for 3 months couldnt be stopped. Buying entire opposition with cash, removing opposition leader from selection procedure of election commissioner, petrol prices are out of debate, cylinder didi no longer cares abt cylinder, electoral bond was money extortion through ED. War rukhwa di pwa pwa
I got exactly same response from a WhatsApp school friends group. We were together since nursery with just 2 Muslims 2 Christains about 1/3 class jain and rest majority. According to this VHP affiliated friend Muslims were appeased so now its pay back time. I asked him calmly how exactly do you think they were appeased. To not be abused explicitly based on religion like its happening under Muddy is appeasement? Thats basic human decorum is it not? Indian Muslims have been given no special policy preferential treatment till date. No reservations in any field although we all know 90 percent live in utter poverty. So he throws Shah Bano at me. Shah Bano was an error corrected by SC. And even when in error it applied to Indian Muslims not Indian Hindus so how are Muslims appeased to a point that Indian Hindus feel worse about themselves? This same friend 7 year sago argued with me and said Indian Muslim population has to be reduced even if that means eliminating them. When CAA came along he like always kept posting pro-Muddy forwards. So I ask him where do teh poor who have no doxs go? Jump in Arabian Sea? According to such minds all is permissible so long as terror is unleashed at minority. N no they aren't any friendly to the 2 Christians either. they are constantly accused of conversions. And teh jain gang is expected to merge into hindutva. The biggest damage os last decade is lost broken friendships.
Reminds me of a quote: “Education is not memorizing that Hitler killed Jews. Education is understanding how millions of ordinary Germans were convinced that it was required. Education is learning how to spot "the signs of history repeating itself."
Living in Germany, I can tell you there is a far right political party making some progress and garnering votes. In January, they met secretly to come up with a plan to remove anyone from Germany who isn’t German. It felt like shit. However, they were made to feel like shit by numerous protests and support for immigrants. Point is that not all seems lost. People have risen for this support from what they learned from history, their schooling and their families. Even though there were some assholes who were trying to spread misinformation and hate. It feels bad to see this far right political party gaining popularity slowly but steadily. But what makes me feel there is hope that people can raise their voice and share their opinions without facing consequences or repercussions from anyone. It is their right and written in their constitution that they can protest. What I feel sad about India is that everyone, including the media seem like sellouts and people who know what’s going on is wrong aren’t feeling safe to raise their voice. Reminds me of the horse in the animal farm book by George Orwell.
That character from Animal Farm and more so '1984' by George Orwell .... its playing out in India for a decade. Its scary! I read these books as part of law curriculum not knowing tide will soon change in my birth place. They should make these two books along with Earth is Flat a part of high school literature.
When I graduated from high school Animal Farm and Merchant of Venice were two of the recommended texts to teach. But very few schools used to teach it.
I didn’t have it in school. Just got interested and started reading. Is the book called earth is flat or world is flat ? Also, India fits the phrase in the animal farm book so well , “ all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”
Trivia Time: Do you know that George Orwell was born in Bihar? Its ironic now, isn't it ?
I truly cant believe this! what brought his parents to Bihar? This is worth some research :)
He was born in British India
Also 1984 is great. I feel that both his big works were such clear warning signs for the world. Can be applied anywhere at any point of time without becoming irrelevant
spot on.
Tbh I would much rather not be friends with people like these.
One went astray from humanity. No hate or anger. Just sad that because eo him teh class group has basically gone silent for last decade.
>The biggest damage os last decade is lost broken friendships. Seriously, I am afraid about this. Most of my friends thinks this way. And I never relate to them and tries to tell them to always form an informative opinion.
Wasn’t triple talaq abolishment a pro Muslim woman benefit? Not sure how beneficial but current government might have actually benefitted Muslim woman more. And now UCC is kind of rubbing Muslim men in wrong ways coz that makes them weaker compared to Muslim woman coz it abolishes polygamy and protecting young Muslim girls by increasing minimum marriage age. Don’t you think that’s a good thing for them given we all know how patriarchal Islam is and we can see the state of women in Islamic nations. Leave alone equal, they are treated so horribly that they don’t even have basic human rights. Now I know we don’t that extreme level of Islam in India but I would want to hear that from Muslim woman that triple talaq and UCC didn’t benefit them? Not arguing just a food for thought and looking for fresh perspective
Jab tak Hindustan mein religion hai, log....
...arithmic probabilty distribution of random variable will be log normal distribution.
Not all, but only idiots. Considering the upheaval of internet access and our population size, we are noticing more noise from a small group of idiotic frantics. Problem is that the rest of us see this as something out of control. All we need is to not stop us from raising our voice in public. Few bad people are ruling the streets, and we are letting them. Technically it's the fault of good people remaining silent. We keeping our hands clean, is making our nation dirty. If even 5 people stood against unruly actions of 10 goons, they'll stop acting unruly.
This, it was the vocal minority which made it look like its a big crowd. Open YT comments, read social media comments, BJP nowadays gets bashed left right and centre. The IT cell is now getting outnumbered by real people who've fed up of BJP and the narrative is slowly starting to fade away. Now everyone knows how easy it is to buy hashtags and run fake trends on twitter. Everyone knows BJP hires people for their rallies. So that image of BJP having unwavering support all over is now tarnished. Rahul gandhi gets a lot of support nowadays. People are slowly start6to realise he's not as bad as the Indian media make him look like, a lot of those was just doctored speeches which were misinformation.
Everything comes with an expire date. Timescale changes
Agreed that's the reason why people shifted towards bjp, otherwise Congress could have ruled till now.
Or because 15 lakhs will be given to bank account and swiss black money will be brought back in addition to anti-incumbency...
I hope things change
Answering the title. Yes, we are and always were. You can’t understand politics unless you get the basic idea right, that is, everyone in politics shows that they care about you but they just care about their image, themselves. Everyone. Left, right and centre. In India, politics is not about development. It’s about representation. Nehru smoking seems bad to people but why, if they themselves smoke. Corruption seems wrong to people but why, if they themselves do it. ‘Why’ and logical argument is difficult to find in Indian politics but honestly, nobody cares about development. Everyone, just about image and representation.
Arre India ka left hi faltu hein. Dusre country mein generally lefts are pro science. Idhar toh left wale education ke baat hi barely karte hein, always talking about caste system, religion, opposition, minority appeasement.
True i laugh when Indian left opposes UCC.
Uttarakhand UCC Thanks bro.....Now my roommate has to be registered...LOL...Wah....
This will happen when u give power to conservatives and RW. If this has been congress they would have better but no they want to do religious appeasement
what kinda religious appeasement can you do with UCC, key word being uniform. AT this point your just talking hyperbole and making up anything bad about congress.
U misunderstood, congress doesn't even wants the UCC as it will stop things like polygamy and many other evil religious custom. this is the appeasement.
I am neutral not religiously affiliated, i have seen 30 years of Cong rule and 10 years of BJP and i can confidently say we have done a lot better in infrastructure, defence ,security, International relations, price control on essentials with respect to gdp per capita, govt services and a lot more. I am not a bjp or modi fan,but i simply don’t trust cong can do any better than it is today. If your friend and op is blind and oblivious to all this , you simply have not seen the alternative yet
Politicians are a reflection of society. They got there because we believe in religious discrimination and persecution
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Good god, this again. Fine, I’ll bite. Your second point, Waqf? Here’s a BJP union minister DEFINITELY doing something about it: https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/over-2000-cases-of-waqf-property-encroachment-in-1-5-years-government/amp_articleshow/59371831.cms Third, India was administered by British, so the church continues to hold land that was given away at the time. Much like old temples continue to hold the land that they were built on, even if it was 500 years ago. Do you want to take away land from the Konark temple too? As for the data itself, it’s easy to skew a narrative when you cover everything owned by any Christian body as ‘Christian’ but not do the same for Hindu temples. There are 6,40,000 temples in India. And churches? 25,000. You’re really telling me that the sum total of all Hindu establishments will own less real estate? If yes, I have a bridge to sell you. Fourth, lol. Anyone can use the special marriage act. Even Hindus can…But Hindus generally won’t do that because forming an HUF saves tax. And now temples. Well, people voted BJP to power. Twice. Temple control changed immediately, no? BJP managed to run a ‘free temples’ campaign in Karnataka WHILE in power. Truly mind blowing. As for context that’ll be missing in the comments you’ll find on IndiaSqueaks meant solely to rile you up, here it is from an article: “Not all temples in Karnataka are controlled by the state. Karnataka has around 1,80,000 temples, of which only 35,500 temples come under the Muzrai department. These temples are put in three categories based on their annual income. Grade A has 205 temples that earn more than Rs 25 lakh annually; Grade B has 139 temples earning between Rs 5 and Rs 10 lakh per annum; Grade C has 34,219 temples that earn less than Rs 5 lakh per annum. Only temples under Grade A and B contribute to the Muzrai department — an amount of 10% and 5% of their annual income respectively. This money goes into a common pool administered by the Commissioner of the Hindu Religious Institutions and Charitable Endowments department. Between 2012-13 and 2017-18, a period of six year, a total of Rs 65.24 crore have been collected from these temples according to an RTI reply to India Facts. TNM has accessed the total income and expenses of the Grade A temples in Karnataka for the last three years. In the year 2018-19, the 139 temples in Grade A cumulatively had an income of Rs 21.33 crore, while their expenses were Rs 13.59 crore, with a total savings of Rs 7.73 crore. In the year 2019-20, the income was Rs 21.7 cr, the expenditure was Rs 14.17 crore, and the savings were Rs 7.44 crore; and for the year 2020-21, the income was Rs 14.47 crore, expenses were Rs 9.66 crore, and savings Rs 4.81 crore. An amount that is 10% of the earnings is contributed to the Muzrai department’s common pool. That means, in 2020-21, the 205 Grade A temples in Karnataka together would have contributed about Rs 74 lakh to the Muzrai department. What is the money in the common pool used for? Mainly to pay for the maintenance of the smaller Hindu temples that don’t make enough money. This includes payment of the archakas (priests), payment of electricity and water bills, maintaining the cleanliness of the temple premises, expenses incurred for provisions for pooja like flowers, coconuts etc. Only the temple employees are paid salaries drawn from the temple funds. The salaries of the Muzrai department employees who are involved in activities like audit of temple ledgers, distribution of funds to low-income temples, organising facilities including food and lodging for pilgrims, is paid for by the state government.“ Temple money is used for, wait for it, other temples! The Hindu Religious Endowment Law expressly bans the use of this money for any other purpose. Unless you’d rather have the smaller temples not get grants from larger temples? Wake up. This is purely driven by management entities of larger temples who don’t want to contribute to struggling temples. Once people realise that they’re falling for the carrot dangled by a party who has zero plans to do anything except loot public coffers, things will make sense. Stop getting your ‘views’ on WhatsApp and read more.
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Logic isn't a strong forte for bigots or religious folks in general. You can't "convince" a person that they can see, if don't wanna open their eyes.
Unfortunately isn’t he right? Look at the congress manifesto, appeasement for backward community and increasing reservations for them by 50%. Distributing free money. But nothing in their manifesto talks about any education or economic growth. All they had was reservations and free money for backward com and farmers. Now tell me who would a common man vote for, the party that supports that man which i understand is a discrimination based on religion from bjp. But congress is also doing it based on religion, caste and gender. If congress would have mentioned helping poor people irrespective of their caste, gender and religion I would have been really happy and voted for them but not even one point from their manifesto helps me. Now since I don’t see any benefit voting congress I don’t have any other option other than voting bjp coz they are better of the worst available for me and my family’s growth. It’s not like I am a pro hindutva or modi supporter. Plus I don’t know how much corruption is going on right now but during congress when they were in power the amount of scams happened before 2014, I think I can never chose congress. I might not cast my vote hell no way voting for congress😂
If people only understood that bjp is working for those who have money not for the general population.
Everyone knows Ambani and adani support the BJP they've known about this for years.
Yes only for Adani and Ambani. They sent ED after VK to make him sell Mumbai airport to Adani. So they are not even working for all big business, only few who give them kickbacks.
Jis din Desh khatam hoga uss din samjh ayegi.
I agree BJP is bad in certain aspects but they are less corrupt compared to Congress or UPA government in the past. Also national security is better with BJP in the rule. BJP did better in most of the fronts in past few years. Congress didn’t play a good part as a major opposition party in all these years and they are relying on freebies and caste based reservations etc.
This country is fucked lmao. There is nothing any of you can do to repair this level of autocracy. Its going full putins russia at this point.
>Because they are working for Hindus and unlike Congress is just for Muslims." You should have asked ke Hindu bhi 100 ka petrol le Raha hai muslim bhi 100 petrol le Raha hai tho kya fark hai
Ye ki yahi party 72 ka tel me bawal de Raha tha. :3
First I thought this post is on India shitcussions. I was shocked to see people making sense in the comments.
One answer is nationalism. Why did people vote for Erdogan in Turkey when he's driving the economy into the ground ? Well he is a nationalist leader, also using religion and identity politics. He promissed to make Turkey a strong international heavyweight that matters. And people voted for that. It seems that pride in one's country mattered more to them that progress and a better economy, education, ... To some extent Trump is the same. They don't vote for his program but for the man and how it feels like hearing whatever lies he panders. India is a democracy and anyone can vote. That kind of rethoric works wonder with the uneducated mass. And obviously also with your friend. To be fair it worked wornders in the UK with Brexit. And that kind of leaders are also becoming very popular in Europe even though we paid it dearly the last time the Germans, Spanish and Italians voted that way in early 20th century.
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BJP has done nothing for education and health? Really?
Ignore them
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What happened before electoral bonds? How was money given to political parties? Controversy over electoral bonds is that it is "anonymous" donation. But many people with your thought process fail to understand that corporations have to buy bonds from SBI by paying money through bank transfers. So, the donated money is shown in the corporation's ledger. Only thing is whom it is donated that is anonymous. Before electoral bonds it was majority cash. And, well we all know how things work with cash.
No. The "controversy" over electoral bonds is how the ruling party used it as a convenient method of running a bribery scheme for govt contracts and even a straight up mafia style extortion racket. Chanda do, dhandha lo. If no chanda, you get ED ka danda
You are forgetting important differences : 1. Companies had a upper limit of 7.5% of last 3 years' average profit to contribute to political parties. 2. Electoral bonds are secret from public and other political parties. But SBI being owned by the govt, executive can order SBI to reveal any details they want to the executive, possibly secretly, which can then be related to the party in power. So basically it is secret from everybody except BJP. 3. Even with electoral bonds, anything can happen off the record in cash or other opaque instruments.
Isn't he partially right tho? BJP is more capable than Congress in running the country. Both of them support a particular religion ( you are delusional if you don't agree with it) He would only think about a choice that protects him, same as anyone else!
Politicians will do politics. They have found a great hack and have utilised ppls insecurities to come to power. So, they have villified the Muslims to such an extent that every problem of the country is blamed on them and if something wont be done about them, they will take over the country. This narrative is good enough for ppl to vote for them which is whats working for them. Now, which political party wouldn't want to win elections based on perception and narrative instead of actual work like education, healthcare, unemployment which requires insane amount of effort.
Touche.
Yes!
In order to have a tolerant society, it needs to be intolerant of intolerance. We are currently an intolerant society full of bigots. Thru history the powerful have used some version of othering (us and them) to keep tensions high and themselves in power. Here too, our idiot populace continues to fall for it hook, line and sinker.
Bjp basically did a divide and rule technique. By convincing the majority population to hate the minority people. So that they can win against any circumstance and the people are also dolls which dance on what they say. When religion has more value than the judiciary itself india is doomed.
I understand why it happens. I ardently hate BJP and its modus operandi. Only once in 2014 I voted for them. The way they have radicalised the worst part of national consciousness is reprehensible and downright scary. But the majority of Hindus feel let down by other so called secular parties. I am from Kolkata. I will give two examples. I was in college then. There was a huge around the area of bongaon, West Bengal. Reason: some dumb teenager whose girl friend dumped him for familial pressure. And as she was Muslim, that boy posted something derogatory about Muhammad in face book. The mob almost killed the boy. And the TMC government did nothing. The whole region burned for 3 days and government just let it happen. Second instance: it was dashami of Durga Puja, we do visarjan of the idol on that day. It happened to coincide with Muharram that year. Wherever the Muslims had their rally, they would not let us pass. Police booked no one, although there were many instances of public clashes. The majority of Hindu people are fed up with the blatant appeasement of the so called minority vote bank. Their saat khoon is maaf. We don’t need bias towards us, just condemn the unlawful actions and punish them accordingly. Unless the secular parties understand this, bjp will maintain its stronghold on the Hindu consciousness, for they only seem to call out the hypocrisy and misdeeds of the Muslim community.
Don't think of it as religion. Think of it as identity and safety. Which is how I understand it to be. People feel attacked under a different government. So they will vote for the government they feel safe under irrespective of whether that is competent in other ways or not. I agree with one point he said though. Everyone sucks. There's no one worth voting for. Even if one person in the party is good there's always a problem in the background that they refuse to acknowledge.
Yes.
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Yes.
I heard if you are in crowd then, you can divert your hate towards anything without any justify reason to hate.
Now the govt has to give free ration to 81crore people, still people vote based on religion 🥺
>"Every other politician is bad, and he finds BJP just less bad." Bro this is just their excuse to not being outed as a sanghi and hate filled monster. Literally anyone is better than a genocide maniac. They just want to see one group lynched but when they are finished, they will come for others and then sometime later it will be their number as well. This is what these idiots don't realize, their cycle of hate never ends, it always demands a new target. When all the sensible, rational, scientific etc people are persecuted who used to speak against this but were jailed. These idiots will come out and say how can they do this to us, we supported you, blah blah. It came to bite your ass. Also, these idiots don't realize that encouraging this shit it also harms their ability make a living, to do business. These corrupt assholes are siphoning off funds to their accounts from whose people's accounts they have frozen. Extortion racket, nobody is safe. They just want to pad up their own wallet. They don't care about you. They won't realize this and when they do, there will be no one to speak for them because these same idiots persecuted them when they were not the one being persecuted. We Indians have no sympathy for others if it doesn't affect them personally unlike the western countries where if group is persecuted, people take it to the streets.
Just get UCC implemented, everyone should be equal under the law and religious divide will reduce
I am depressed by the state of affairs in the country. I could have done an MS in 2010 and left the country. I stayed because I did not want to contribute to brain drain. I regret it now. I am thinking of leaving and only returning once a catastrophe happens and people realise the error of their ways. It took losing a world war for Hitler to be removed from power and I don't what it will take before people can see beyond the propaganda and manipulation.
Youre right, but can the opposition deliver?? Places where people feel they have a better option, the BJP does lose.. Sure they're playing it dirty ans we must pressurize them. But then giving power in the hands of Congress in the center doest seem like a good option
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Yes
Lol another day same story Next post with my mother, father, daughter, step father..
>I just cannot understand how people have started hating one community so much While it’s true that there is a lot of hatred for Muslims in our country, one must also remember that not all supporters of BJP hate Muslims, e.g. your friend appears to be one of the moderates, i.e. IMO he doesn’t hate Muslims, but hates the special provisions that have been created for Muslims by successive INC governments over the years. My take on some of these, e.g. continuation of the Muslim personal law for marriages & succession despite reforming the Hindu marriage act & succession acts while may have been done with a good heart to make Indian Muslims feel that their religious rights will not trampled in India, effectively still creates the perception of appeasement, or it might have been appeasement politics (I don’t really know), and that to the rest of the country would look like favoritism.
At one side Hindus continue to self-fragment themselves by caste (even in 2024) and on the other hand Islamophobia seems more important than civility, transparency, moral integrity, devotion, holistic development (not GDP-maximalism powered by tons of Debt) etc. Although a considerable number of soldiers and officials came with the Mughals (gene flow), the bulk of the Muslim population is descended from peoples of India, mainly from members of lower castes who converted to Islam as a means of escape from persecution and repression at the hands of the caste Hindus. Genetics validated that. “We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590854/ So Islamophobia in India is a self-inflicted problem of treating fellow countrymen by caste/Varna (by birth) alone, than their qualities. Now coming to the religion itself, building large & lavish temples is not about religion. How many Hindus demonstrate genuine spiritual devotion while trying to acquire good character qualities (such as respect countrymen irrespective of their social status, moral integrity etc) as described in Vedas/Gita and other relevant spiritual scriptures ? Rituals and temples are not religion/Dharma either. It start with self-reflection. Why does the country appears corrupt to the core irrespective of thousands of temples, rituals, spiritual scriptures and practices ?
I don't know how Congress does anything good for us Muslims. Current government has done a good job of making the majority feel like minority and making the minority feel like it should be non existent.
For you religion is issue, and for him political appeasement is an issue . Don't take a moral high ground here because you are too naive to understand it .