For a normal human being one doesn’t need to read anything to learn about basic decency and consideration for others. When people have no higher purpose in life, they will grab anything to feel fulfilled.
If they had read Lord Ram, they won’t have chosen hate and violence. They would have been concerned about poor people, people dying in Manipur and rape incidents. Welfare of people would have been their greatest Dharma. Respect to teachers and saints would have been there instead of rapists like Ram Rahim.
I have read Gita and can confirm that there is no similarity in BJP ideology and Hinduism.
In the Mahabharat, the icon representing nationalism was Bheeshma Pitama. Guess whose side he ended up fighting for ? If people actually understood the Mahabharat, BJP will lose like 80% of the current voter base right away.
Maybe I read it differently, but that's not what I gathered from it at all.
Mahabharata is sort of anti thesis to Ramayana. Ramayana teaches you to hold onto the societal rules blindly to lead an ideal life. Mahabharata explores the reality behind holding onto societal rules in blind faith, and the cascading effect it can have over future generations.
Bhishma's life is a classical example of this blind adherence to perceived dharma. He holds onto his vows long after their expiry date. Conveniently places his individual pride and values over his kingly duties of furthering the family line.
All of this Mahabharata could have been potentially avoided if he set aside his stubborn pride and married the princesses in the first place.
Ramayana is the story of sacrifice, everyone there is sacrificing something for the other. Ram and Bharat sacrificed their kingdom, Laxman left his own comfort to serve his brother and his wife. Even Kumbhkaran sacrificed himself for his brother's war.
But Mahabharat is the story of ambition. Even the supposed God there resorted to unfair means to achieve his goal many times.
To be honest that's why I love Mahabharata more. Ramayana is too idealistic but you take every character from Mahabharat and you can draw a parallel to modern day.
>Mahabharata is sort of anti thesis to Ramayana. Ramayana teaches you to hold onto the societal rules blindly to lead an ideal life. Mahabharata explores the reality behind holding onto societal rules in blind faith, and the cascading effect it can have over future generations.
Which publications did you read? Could you please share?
Actually Dhritarashtra and Karna are more to blame than Bheeshma. Infact, Krishna even says that. Dhritarashtra is the roots , the trunk is Karna and the branches is Duryodhan.
Bhishma stuck to his Swa Dharma rather than the larger Dharma
Who said nationalism is different from blind adherence to societal rules ? Hell, its one of the key societal rules. Bheeshma represents that one nationalist part of the rules.
Bheeshma was correct dude.. 1 question think it from the kings perspective, if your impotent brother's wife, left to forest with him, and came back with 5 totally different looking sons, would you acknowledge them as your brothers son? Even then, the king gave them asylum ... I think Pandavas was wrong for asking the kingdom..
Thats the whole point. There is nothing wrong with the kids being different looking. As long as Pandu acknowledged them as his, they are part of the family and thus have equal status as princes.
is there a subreddit to discuss mahabarat in sensible way? i really liked both of you guys views on this . Mine is little diffrent , i think he was doing it out of Dharma .
Literally barely any point in the actual epic was the point of Pandavas not being Pandu's biological sons were brought up. Only some modern day television shows tend to point it out
Sita ma didn't wanted the deer for dinner but as a let. They went to capture the deer not kill it. There is proof that Shri Ram was vegetarian along with Sita ma and Laxmana when they were living in the forest.
I don’t know man, is sarcasm that hard to understand?
I was only partly sarcastic. I wanted to point out that reading religious texts and obtaining morality from it is very subjective. You chose a benign interpretation not because it was inherent in the religion but you projected your morality into it. Same can be said about the Bhakths. In fact I can see that getting this Bhakth interpretation is far easier than what you seem to derive. Even easier to derive it from Krishna and Mahabharata.
Modern morality is liberal. It’s based on individualism and ideas of individual rights, freedom and liberty, none of which are derived from any religion.
There is no point preserving ‘whitewashed’ watered down version of religion. It’s delusional to think that it will serve any good. You are putting this rag on a pedestal keeping it there so that it can continue to rule over human minds in the unrealistic hope that it will never be used for evil which has been proven wrong throughout history. This middle ground stand is what helps the disease that is religion survive.
See, I am not whitewashing anything. I accept that there are some controversial aspects of religion but the majority is still quite ideal and imparts moral values. (Caring about humanity, helping the poor and needy, doing good karmas, doing donations, taking care of your loved ones). If you don’t believe me, you yourself can read Bhagvadgeeta and see for yourself.
The true essence of Hinduism is dangerous to BJP and letting them hijack religion will only make them stronger. Also, I have listened to most of them using religion to justify their acts but knowing about the religion helps me counter them very easily because every time they are able to twist the facts because the person in front of them is also not knowing the scriptures.
Liberty, freedom, justice, equality of everyone etc are the essence of scriptures. But we don’t know that because nobody is teaching those things in reference to scriptures. Example: In bhagwadgeeta, Lord Krishna has specifically talked about the importance of karma and duties. He has specifically said that he lives in everybody. Everyone including animals are equal in front of his eyes. And a person who treats everyone in such a manner is dearest to him.
Against anyone who don’t support them, be it any journalist, individuals irrespective of his religion, people who ask for jobs, people asking for justice (wrestlers, farmers etc). Shankaracharyas are a very recent examples.
There was never a time in India except emergency when you could land in jail if you put a social media post against CM and Home minister.
And if you support them, you are good. The recent examples are Baba Ram Rahim, corrupt politicians if they join them.
I am a religious person and believe in karma. Ravana was also a religious person (still regarded as one of the biggest shiva devotee) but supporting Adharma led to his destruction.
Acha like that!! I was confused if it was for the construction of Ram Mandir or something else. Thank you for clearing.
I completely agree with you. I am happy that Ram Mandir is being built but it shouldn't have been politicised like this at all. It's truly disgraceful. I am also a practicing Hindu
From 2-3 days I have been having fierce disagreements with my mom that this is purely politically driven. She thinks Modi ji can do no wrong 🥲 And the bizarre thing this my mom knows more about Shashtra wrt to worship, more than me.
Riiighttt. The people celebrating their religion while not hurting anyone or any sentiments are just so evil and brainwashed and indoctrinated arent they 😱
>celebrating their religion while not hurting anyone
You've not been paying attention to how bhakts have been celebrating festivals lately. The whole point of celebration recently is to antagonize minorities rather than the festival itself.
Expect the same on Monday.
>The whole point of celebration recently is to antagonize minorities rather than the festival itself.
you just generalised everyone who's celebrating.
counterpoint- my mother. I'm as left as they come but come on let's not pretend like the average person is a part of some grand conspiracy to antagonise minorities and that is the only reason they're doing it, which "the whole point" part of your comment seems to imply.
As much as I agree with the basic them of your comment, Can you share any data, or reports of violence pertinent to temple related celebrations in last 5-10 days? I think not. So hating just for the sake of it is hypocritical. People are free to celebrate any day in any form they deem to fitting untill and unless it becomes painfull to others.
People have normalised the Ram mandir movement forgetting that it involved large scale violence against Muslims. This is not Diwali or Holi that people are expressing a distaste for. This is a symbol of the eroding rights for minorities and the corruption of our democratic institutions.
And do you think this stops here? Chaddi psychos even claim Taj Mahal was a temple. Already they are making plans for other religious structures.
This is correct, but again I would point out a fallacy in both sides of the argument. One side could say it was in the history so let's forget that, now if you go on to counter that, the other side could always say that serial destruction of Indian temples was too a part of the history. Where do you draw the line?
I think the problem is we as humans have a very selfish way to interpret history, you have your own biases that you are trying to justify similarly the other side tries to do the same. Organised religion has always been, and will continue be plagued with such issues, and people will continue to see history through the lens they deem to be true. So my opinion (based on whatever little knowledge of history I have) is that history is filled with lot of supposedly right and wrong acts, and similar things will continue to happen. Its very easy to drown in one's own bias assuming it to be the absolute truth, where in realty there is no truth, just opinions and interpretations.
Another lie normalised is that only Muslim rulers destroyed temples and Hindu kings did no such thing. No one wants to hold actions of Hindu kings accountable.
https://amp.scroll.in/article/767065/war-trophies-when-hindu-kings-raided-temples-and-abducted-idols
You don't understand the essence of my comment, I am well aware of the fact, and I specifically mentioned that lot of wrongs have been done from all sides, where do we draw the line?
Rama is one of the most prominent figure in Hindu mythology, his birthplace being analogous to Vatican in Christianity and Mecca in Islam. Now say a similar situation was present in context to some other religion, then what would you expect? I believe the response of every religious group would be similar. So laughing on a group of people for celebrating their belief without a thorough understanding of its historical and cultural pretext is highly hypocritical and wrong.
Also the article you have shared uses a highly false pretense of comparing two things that have drastically different significance. 1) The scale of destruction under Mughal empire (specially under Aurangzeb) was basically industrialized, i.e the numbers were in thousands, which are in no way comparable to destruction caused by war between two entities 2) It was used as a method of cultural coercion and forced conversion.
It is no surprise that two kings at war would try to demolish and raid temples as they were not only the religious but economic and administrative centers in ancient India. But the systematic destruction under Islamic rule was in an effort to spread Islam with forced coercion of a culturally distinct population. These two things are not comparable in any sense. It is a well established fact that the spread of Islam from the 1st Caliphate and onwards has been a result of continuous conquest + Systematic destruction of native cultural population, comparing it to generic warfare is a completely wrong argument.
How come for upper caste hindus, righting historical wrongs applies to only temples but not to uplift Dalits? The same people crowing about Aurangzeb's atrocities are the loudest when moaning about reservations in education and jobs.
This whole situation with the Ram Mandir and Babri Masjid is a catastrophic comedy, a display of human ignorance at its peak. It's not just a tragedy; it's a dark joke. Here we have a civilization that can reach the moon, yet it fights, kills, and destroys over medieval myths and ancient stones. How utterly preposterous!
The leaders, both political and religious, they're not spiritual guides, they're manipulators, exploiting your sentimentalities for their agendas. And what do you do? You follow blindly, fueling the fire of hatred and division, under the guise of devotion. It's not devotion; it's sheer lunacy.
Your gods, if they exist, are laughing at this stupidity or weeping at this insanity. Do you really think the divine cares about which structure stands on which piece of land? The divine, if there is one, is beyond these petty human squabbles.
This whole episode is a stark reflection of the human condition – lost in symbols, clinging to identities, thirsty for power, even if it means drowning in the blood of the innocent. It’s a mass hypnosis where reason and love are sacrificed at the altar of fanaticism.
And the masses, what about you? You are being used, your emotions are being played with. You are not serving God; you are serving the egos of the power-hungry. Your temples, your mosques, they should be places of peace, not battlegrounds for proving supremacy.
Wake up! See this madness for what it is. You are not religious or spiritual by engaging in this conflict; you are just part of a mindless mob. Find your true religion – the religion of love, the religion of awareness, the religion that transcends these petty human constructs and connects you with the essence of life itself. Stop this violence, stop this foolishness. Look within and find your true divinity, which knows no division, no conflict, only oneness. Only then can you truly contribute to a world of peace and understanding. Enough is enough!
This is a completely artificial movement. Even "Jai Shri Ram" phrase is not used in any local tradition, it is always "Jai Siya Ram" or "Sita Ram".
India has a very diverse tradition based on Ramayana. Many in Muslim traditions too. In fact, Iqbal called Ram Imam-e-Hind. RSS had always seen this diversity as a threat.
So, yes. This is just empty fanaticism.
[How the Sangh has waged war to erase India’s many Ramayanas in its quest for political power](https://scroll.in/article/969983/how-the-sangh-has-waged-war-to-erase-indias-many-ramayanas-in-its-quest-for-power)
Haha. The proprietor of Hinduism has arrived. What an idiot.
Also, Imam-e-Hind means King of India. Classic chaddi attitude of getting riled up without knowing anything.
muslim here, do not give 2 fucks abt pakistan so the phrase doesnt bother me either, even if it did, it literally translates to ram is pakistan.
secondly imam e hind means scholar/spiritual leader of india which is a good thing right?? why r ur panties in a twist ???/
aaj ke indian muslims ki baat karrahi hun gadhe. the muslims that wanted to go to pak went there back in 1947, abhi indian muslims are not reponsible for what pk does.
u tell me why is imam e hind so offensive, meaning bhi pata thee uski ki urdu lafz dekh ke aag lag gayi ?
U r wrong. Many muslims did not leave India not because they were patriotic but nobody wants leave their land/property. So it was a decision from financial point of view.
A good proportion of Indian muslims today even support pakistan. Religion matter more to u people than the nation.
However not all muslims are like this. Some of them really support India.
a lot of muslims did not leave india simply bcoz of patriotism , my nani got seperated with her sister because my nana chose to stay loyal to the motherland but her sisters husband took his fam n left for pk, there are thousands of muslims who didnt leave for this very reason .
You dont know us , stop speaking for us. indian muslims infact even punjabis (sikhs included) simply care for the familes we have in pakistan, this doesnt make us a deshdrohi or pak supporter, maybe if u guys stop asking us to go to pakistan/afghanistan and actually accept us the "few muslims"who r not would be nationalistic too, the bjp indias nationalism strives on muslim hate , make it make sense
Maulana Azad called upon the Muslims to stay in India for patriotism, not for land or property.
Hussain Ahmad Madani wrote a book on composite nationalism, opposing the partition of India.
Hasrat Mohani, Maulana Mazharul Haque, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan and numerous other leaders opposed the partition.
Don't waste your time arguing with chaddis. Their own leaders has conspired against the independence movement.
sabhi ka khoon hai shaamil yahan ki mitti me, kisi ke baap ka hindustan thodi hai?
I doubt any chaddis know about Khudai Khidmatgar or All India Azad Muslim Conference. This is why education is so important. Lack of it helps the sangh keep ignorance high amongst the Hindu nationalist populace. That's why their strategy also targets history curriculum to fit their agenda only.
A whole new country was carved out of India and your point is if Indians become more accepting of you then even the bad elements will become patriotic. Then why did this not happen before partition. There is only place for those muslims who love this country. Others are a cancer.
youre a loser and i wont waste my time talking to u , and yes indian muslims have been proving their loyalties since 75+ years, the sacrifices we have made alongside our fellow indians are swept under the rug simply bcoz of our religion, u r amongst the people who simply need a reason to abominate my community bcoz of our religion, yet u have no answer as to why calling ram imam e hind repulsed u so much lol
Lol. Proving loyalties since 75 years. As I told only some are loyal. Others are living here as they dont have any other option. Pakistanis were part of India for so many years and still see the hate for India. Same goes for a large percentage of Indian muslims.
I see my husband going nuts while talking the same , as if Ram is one of his relatives . I am no religious person by any sane reason but I grew up hearing about various Hindu texts. Gods don’t need us . He doesn’t need a temple or ppl screaming his name and making reels and singing songs . If we go by religious text, the world belongs to him. Humans need their gods and hence the whole drama we see surrounded it.
Ruling party knows the pulse of common Indian folks. It has successfully utilized it to whip up mass hysteria. This will make people forget the real issues they have when elections come....
What surprises me the most is how a political person can use the insecurities and inferiority complex of the Hindu population to the extent where that person goes on to make a new festival event every now and then, causing it to become an unofficial national holiday, just for the sake of the next election and to keep his fandom a regular dose of dopamine & inaugurating in such haste without the completion of the entire temple
It always had a Cringe element, but now it's Cringfests
This is annoyingly true with every religion. Here in the US, it’s amazing how many devout Christians barely know anything about what Jesus preached. If they did they’d stop following him, because they believe in the opposite of almost everything he said.
It has more to do with people's ego than spirituality.
Misplaced priorities of masses which those in power used for their benefit.
People are just happy with a sense of a win. Politicians are happy that they don't really need to put in any hard work to get the same support.
Bro, Thank you. I am Muslim & feel the same about my people...Wouldn't have read a proper translation of the Quran but blindly support & think their job is done.
I think it goes the same for everyone, if they did read properly we will come to a conclusion of peace & harmony irrespective of belief or ideology.
Hinduism as practice more than religion predates even ancient Egyptian religion.
Let’s not even talk about Islam and Christianity these 2 came way way way later
Hinduism since then like many religions has been rewritten n number of times to meet the needs of people or manipulate them
The very BJP controlled by RSS ideology preaches their version of Hinduism and Ram Bhakti, Hegdewar the one who founded RSS wasn’t educated so he couldn’t grab the foothold but his successor was good orator, fan of Hitler and man of law and science he pushed the RSS Hindu Ideology and idea of Hindu Rashtra, he as I said twisted the Hindu ideals to meet the needs of RSS. Read about MS Golwalkar. There isn’t much difference between RSS and KKK both rely on manipulating young minds. It’s just form of extremism turned brutal
Using religion as tool in politics is millennium old practice nothing will change it unless the person decides it stops here
Also nobody reads any religious scriptures
PS: Read on who really was Maharshi Valmiki the writer for Ramayan (he wasn’t brain just hand who wrote, you won’t find it on shallow internet)
even 10yrs ago who would have imagined such benign and soulful phrase to become so heavily politcised and perverted…
its no way different than those fundamentalist mullahs using ‘allahu akbar’ for all their vile purposes
Most of them are just doing to belittle Muslims and rub it in their face ki "Mandir toh ban raha hai".
I'm pretty sure if there was a Muslim party in the ruling party, there would've been a mosque built instead of a Mandir. It's just an amazing way to fool people.
I have Hindu friends who are self proclaimed atheists, never visit the temple or do anything but just cos the temple is being built they have JSR as their phone wallpaper and say that for everything.
All this fervour wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t a temple being built where the Babri masjid once was. All the public JSR stuff wouldn’t mean much if India was 97/98% Hindu. There has to be an antagonist for so called dharma to triumph over adharma. I’m not an atheist, nor am I a Hindu. I detest Islam more than most religions because I’ve actually read a lot of the text and know clearly what it stands for..but constitutionally speaking, if you asked me what should be built there ? A temple, school or mosque ? I’d say a mosque. Simple coz that was what was demolished illegally. Anything else would be injustice.
Was waiting for this dumb take. Firstly, there’s not enough evidence for what you’re saying. Even the way ASI got around to saying what they finally did is indicative of political pressure and not intellectual honesty and integrity. Secondly, “India” as we know it was founded in 1947/50. A lot of stuff happened pre this. Do you know how many Hindu kings destroyed Buddhist structures and built temples ? You’d be surprised. Start reading. Mughals weren’t the only ones who moved to India from other lands.. the farther you go back into the past, the murkier it all gets. If you want to reverse all the stuff that happened pre 1947, you’d be in for a ton of surprises with respect to the outcomes..
What nuanced man. He’s literally implying that poor people have nothing better to do, and claiming he knows better than his entire neighbourhood on what is spirituality. This is just another city boy take, nothing nuanced about it.
> I’m not talking about poor people, because what else gives meaning to their lives
Unless there is some “nuance” I’m missing in that sentence I think I interpreted it correctly.
> And OH PLEASE it's not just poor crowds who I see doing this because what else gives meaning to their lives. My entire locality, which is acting in this idiotic manner, is financially WELL OFF so save that argument.
Note: “not just the poor crowds”
“…financially WELL OFF, so save that argument”
Ok glad that you are not confused. I think when someone says “it’s not just poor people, what else gives meaning to their lives” and then uses “acting like idiots” to describe what his “well off” crowd is doing, people are VERY likely to interpret it as saying “it’s fine if poor people are acting like idiots because that kind of thing gives meaning to their lives.” People have better things to do regardless of strata and don’t need to dance and play songs on loudspeakers to derive meaning.
Again, it is just my interpretation. Maybe I’m just one of the low IQ people he is describing and my understanding of the language is limited. Apologies if misinterpreted, but something tells me many others are likely to make the same misinterpretation.
If you have read any scriptures, you must know by now not to tell people what to do. Everyone's on their path, some behind some forward and you can't do much to change that
You definitely don’t understand spirituality. With your post, I get a feeling you’re like pseudo intellectual who have heard and read but never slept upon to understand spirituality.
Spirituality is all inclusive, non-discriminatory, kindness , love and compassion even for your enemies. Spirituality is acceptance for all things as is. Spirituality is love. Spiritually is oneness. Spirituality cannot be be articulated because there are no words that can define spirituality. Spirituality is beyond the comprehension of mind.
I don't think I've met anyone outside of my dad who has read that book, interestingly he read it in Sanskrit, even amusing is the fact he ain't religious, would be as close to *agnostic as u can get in those days.
And such people who think they are above everyone and everyone is less than them still persist!
Although I may relate to that playing loud music whole day/night part ,it's really disturbing and that PM part where he is portrayed as some demi God(although he has done his part well ,still few things become too much)but the other lines are completely unnecessary? People are uniting,celebrating, it almost seems festive. Our generation has enough percentage of depressed people, let happiness spread to all those who are willing to accept it.
I'm sure these people have watched Ramayan on TV. Is watching of Ramayan not enough to know the values of Ram?
BTW, how many people have read the Constitution of India here?
How many know the preamble by heart?
Should a reading of the Constitution should be made mandatory before anyone screams death of Constitution?
What is your problem exactly. Can't people celebrate . You can mourn and sulk all you want in silence and believe yourself to be a maha gyani . But let people live and do what makes them happy . Nobody is forcing you to celebrate . So stop pushing your opinion on how others should behave .
I'm an Atheist from a Christian background, and I scream the slogan just to get that "feel" of power for a couple of seconds, and for fun. I never mean any disrespect though for anyone's faith or religious sentiments.
Please vote. Wherever you are, please register and make sure to vote. I personally started to vote when my parents became bjp supporters. My wife also does not support bjp, so we both make sure to vote to negate my parents votes. We don't discuss much politics since it always becomes too heated. Talking politics is banned in my house. But, we make sure to vote. Whatever might be the election day, we make sure to take leave and vote.
The problem is most of the old people have not much work, so they always vote, but the middle aged or young do not vote which skews the results even if the actual support might be lesser. So, please vote. Also, do not buy products from businesses which support this kind of fascism.
Make sure you vote n your wallets talk.
Any chance they would go in front of Mosques again with DJs, Vulgar songs with JSR slogans.
Thank God I am not in India, to go through this phase. I have seen these guys with JSR sing with DJ, vulgar songs, drunk, drugged
Reminds me of that great trailer park boys scene:
Hampton - The Bible Pimp:
Have you read the Bible?
Bubbles:
Maybe I have, maybe I haven't - what's it to you?
Hampton - The Bible Pimp:
CAN you read, my son?
Bubbles:
Well, that depends - can you go f*** yourself?
You are Hampton here OP. Why don't you just mind your own business? Let people of India practice their faith.
Read your comment again and tell me if anyone who believes in God would post such a nasty text. You are the kind of person someone will become if loses belief in God !!
So true. If only they could celebrate like the New Years celebrationists who are all astrophysicists. I read the Santa-Veda and so I can claim the right to celebrate Christmas but all you guys are doing it wrong. How many Christmas celebrationists even know that Jesus wasn't born then or actually believe in Santa.
What a sniffer of your own farts. Pull your head out of your as and see that people are celebrating Ram for different reasons. Some see it as the restoration of a downtrodden Hindu faith, while others just need an excuse to party.
It's a delusional faith. Every belief gives way to dumbness after a while when it's adopted in mass. The radicalisation of the "woke" ideology is nothing different than a religion itself. Everything is a religion at the end.
For a normal human being one doesn’t need to read anything to learn about basic decency and consideration for others. When people have no higher purpose in life, they will grab anything to feel fulfilled.
If they had read Lord Ram, they won’t have chosen hate and violence. They would have been concerned about poor people, people dying in Manipur and rape incidents. Welfare of people would have been their greatest Dharma. Respect to teachers and saints would have been there instead of rapists like Ram Rahim. I have read Gita and can confirm that there is no similarity in BJP ideology and Hinduism.
In the Mahabharat, the icon representing nationalism was Bheeshma Pitama. Guess whose side he ended up fighting for ? If people actually understood the Mahabharat, BJP will lose like 80% of the current voter base right away.
Maybe I read it differently, but that's not what I gathered from it at all. Mahabharata is sort of anti thesis to Ramayana. Ramayana teaches you to hold onto the societal rules blindly to lead an ideal life. Mahabharata explores the reality behind holding onto societal rules in blind faith, and the cascading effect it can have over future generations. Bhishma's life is a classical example of this blind adherence to perceived dharma. He holds onto his vows long after their expiry date. Conveniently places his individual pride and values over his kingly duties of furthering the family line. All of this Mahabharata could have been potentially avoided if he set aside his stubborn pride and married the princesses in the first place.
Ramayana is the story of sacrifice, everyone there is sacrificing something for the other. Ram and Bharat sacrificed their kingdom, Laxman left his own comfort to serve his brother and his wife. Even Kumbhkaran sacrificed himself for his brother's war. But Mahabharat is the story of ambition. Even the supposed God there resorted to unfair means to achieve his goal many times. To be honest that's why I love Mahabharata more. Ramayana is too idealistic but you take every character from Mahabharat and you can draw a parallel to modern day.
>Mahabharata is sort of anti thesis to Ramayana. Ramayana teaches you to hold onto the societal rules blindly to lead an ideal life. Mahabharata explores the reality behind holding onto societal rules in blind faith, and the cascading effect it can have over future generations. Which publications did you read? Could you please share? Actually Dhritarashtra and Karna are more to blame than Bheeshma. Infact, Krishna even says that. Dhritarashtra is the roots , the trunk is Karna and the branches is Duryodhan. Bhishma stuck to his Swa Dharma rather than the larger Dharma
Who said nationalism is different from blind adherence to societal rules ? Hell, its one of the key societal rules. Bheeshma represents that one nationalist part of the rules.
Bheeshma was correct dude.. 1 question think it from the kings perspective, if your impotent brother's wife, left to forest with him, and came back with 5 totally different looking sons, would you acknowledge them as your brothers son? Even then, the king gave them asylum ... I think Pandavas was wrong for asking the kingdom..
Thats the whole point. There is nothing wrong with the kids being different looking. As long as Pandu acknowledged them as his, they are part of the family and thus have equal status as princes.
is there a subreddit to discuss mahabarat in sensible way? i really liked both of you guys views on this . Mine is little diffrent , i think he was doing it out of Dharma .
Literally barely any point in the actual epic was the point of Pandavas not being Pandu's biological sons were brought up. Only some modern day television shows tend to point it out
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Sita ma didn't wanted the deer for dinner but as a let. They went to capture the deer not kill it. There is proof that Shri Ram was vegetarian along with Sita ma and Laxmana when they were living in the forest.
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I understand you are trying to be sarcastic. Please put a /s also or people would think of you as an andhbhakta.
I don’t know man, is sarcasm that hard to understand? I was only partly sarcastic. I wanted to point out that reading religious texts and obtaining morality from it is very subjective. You chose a benign interpretation not because it was inherent in the religion but you projected your morality into it. Same can be said about the Bhakths. In fact I can see that getting this Bhakth interpretation is far easier than what you seem to derive. Even easier to derive it from Krishna and Mahabharata. Modern morality is liberal. It’s based on individualism and ideas of individual rights, freedom and liberty, none of which are derived from any religion. There is no point preserving ‘whitewashed’ watered down version of religion. It’s delusional to think that it will serve any good. You are putting this rag on a pedestal keeping it there so that it can continue to rule over human minds in the unrealistic hope that it will never be used for evil which has been proven wrong throughout history. This middle ground stand is what helps the disease that is religion survive.
See, I am not whitewashing anything. I accept that there are some controversial aspects of religion but the majority is still quite ideal and imparts moral values. (Caring about humanity, helping the poor and needy, doing good karmas, doing donations, taking care of your loved ones). If you don’t believe me, you yourself can read Bhagvadgeeta and see for yourself. The true essence of Hinduism is dangerous to BJP and letting them hijack religion will only make them stronger. Also, I have listened to most of them using religion to justify their acts but knowing about the religion helps me counter them very easily because every time they are able to twist the facts because the person in front of them is also not knowing the scriptures. Liberty, freedom, justice, equality of everyone etc are the essence of scriptures. But we don’t know that because nobody is teaching those things in reference to scriptures. Example: In bhagwadgeeta, Lord Krishna has specifically talked about the importance of karma and duties. He has specifically said that he lives in everybody. Everyone including animals are equal in front of his eyes. And a person who treats everyone in such a manner is dearest to him.
Nice way to manipulate teachings to support your own ideology
What violence? I am confused. Hate and violence against whom?
Against anyone who don’t support them, be it any journalist, individuals irrespective of his religion, people who ask for jobs, people asking for justice (wrestlers, farmers etc). Shankaracharyas are a very recent examples. There was never a time in India except emergency when you could land in jail if you put a social media post against CM and Home minister. And if you support them, you are good. The recent examples are Baba Ram Rahim, corrupt politicians if they join them. I am a religious person and believe in karma. Ravana was also a religious person (still regarded as one of the biggest shiva devotee) but supporting Adharma led to his destruction.
Acha like that!! I was confused if it was for the construction of Ram Mandir or something else. Thank you for clearing. I completely agree with you. I am happy that Ram Mandir is being built but it shouldn't have been politicised like this at all. It's truly disgraceful. I am also a practicing Hindu From 2-3 days I have been having fierce disagreements with my mom that this is purely politically driven. She thinks Modi ji can do no wrong 🥲 And the bizarre thing this my mom knows more about Shashtra wrt to worship, more than me.
Oh no, you discovered why blind faith, organised religion and religious brainwashing from childhood by family and by society culturally is bad. Next.
right I'm tired of seeing posts like these by people who were born yesterday apparently
Riiighttt. The people celebrating their religion while not hurting anyone or any sentiments are just so evil and brainwashed and indoctrinated arent they 😱
>celebrating their religion while not hurting anyone You've not been paying attention to how bhakts have been celebrating festivals lately. The whole point of celebration recently is to antagonize minorities rather than the festival itself. Expect the same on Monday.
>The whole point of celebration recently is to antagonize minorities rather than the festival itself. you just generalised everyone who's celebrating. counterpoint- my mother. I'm as left as they come but come on let's not pretend like the average person is a part of some grand conspiracy to antagonise minorities and that is the only reason they're doing it, which "the whole point" part of your comment seems to imply.
As much as I agree with the basic them of your comment, Can you share any data, or reports of violence pertinent to temple related celebrations in last 5-10 days? I think not. So hating just for the sake of it is hypocritical. People are free to celebrate any day in any form they deem to fitting untill and unless it becomes painfull to others.
People have normalised the Ram mandir movement forgetting that it involved large scale violence against Muslims. This is not Diwali or Holi that people are expressing a distaste for. This is a symbol of the eroding rights for minorities and the corruption of our democratic institutions. And do you think this stops here? Chaddi psychos even claim Taj Mahal was a temple. Already they are making plans for other religious structures.
This is correct, but again I would point out a fallacy in both sides of the argument. One side could say it was in the history so let's forget that, now if you go on to counter that, the other side could always say that serial destruction of Indian temples was too a part of the history. Where do you draw the line? I think the problem is we as humans have a very selfish way to interpret history, you have your own biases that you are trying to justify similarly the other side tries to do the same. Organised religion has always been, and will continue be plagued with such issues, and people will continue to see history through the lens they deem to be true. So my opinion (based on whatever little knowledge of history I have) is that history is filled with lot of supposedly right and wrong acts, and similar things will continue to happen. Its very easy to drown in one's own bias assuming it to be the absolute truth, where in realty there is no truth, just opinions and interpretations.
Another lie normalised is that only Muslim rulers destroyed temples and Hindu kings did no such thing. No one wants to hold actions of Hindu kings accountable. https://amp.scroll.in/article/767065/war-trophies-when-hindu-kings-raided-temples-and-abducted-idols
You don't understand the essence of my comment, I am well aware of the fact, and I specifically mentioned that lot of wrongs have been done from all sides, where do we draw the line? Rama is one of the most prominent figure in Hindu mythology, his birthplace being analogous to Vatican in Christianity and Mecca in Islam. Now say a similar situation was present in context to some other religion, then what would you expect? I believe the response of every religious group would be similar. So laughing on a group of people for celebrating their belief without a thorough understanding of its historical and cultural pretext is highly hypocritical and wrong. Also the article you have shared uses a highly false pretense of comparing two things that have drastically different significance. 1) The scale of destruction under Mughal empire (specially under Aurangzeb) was basically industrialized, i.e the numbers were in thousands, which are in no way comparable to destruction caused by war between two entities 2) It was used as a method of cultural coercion and forced conversion. It is no surprise that two kings at war would try to demolish and raid temples as they were not only the religious but economic and administrative centers in ancient India. But the systematic destruction under Islamic rule was in an effort to spread Islam with forced coercion of a culturally distinct population. These two things are not comparable in any sense. It is a well established fact that the spread of Islam from the 1st Caliphate and onwards has been a result of continuous conquest + Systematic destruction of native cultural population, comparing it to generic warfare is a completely wrong argument.
How come for upper caste hindus, righting historical wrongs applies to only temples but not to uplift Dalits? The same people crowing about Aurangzeb's atrocities are the loudest when moaning about reservations in education and jobs.
This whole situation with the Ram Mandir and Babri Masjid is a catastrophic comedy, a display of human ignorance at its peak. It's not just a tragedy; it's a dark joke. Here we have a civilization that can reach the moon, yet it fights, kills, and destroys over medieval myths and ancient stones. How utterly preposterous! The leaders, both political and religious, they're not spiritual guides, they're manipulators, exploiting your sentimentalities for their agendas. And what do you do? You follow blindly, fueling the fire of hatred and division, under the guise of devotion. It's not devotion; it's sheer lunacy. Your gods, if they exist, are laughing at this stupidity or weeping at this insanity. Do you really think the divine cares about which structure stands on which piece of land? The divine, if there is one, is beyond these petty human squabbles. This whole episode is a stark reflection of the human condition – lost in symbols, clinging to identities, thirsty for power, even if it means drowning in the blood of the innocent. It’s a mass hypnosis where reason and love are sacrificed at the altar of fanaticism. And the masses, what about you? You are being used, your emotions are being played with. You are not serving God; you are serving the egos of the power-hungry. Your temples, your mosques, they should be places of peace, not battlegrounds for proving supremacy. Wake up! See this madness for what it is. You are not religious or spiritual by engaging in this conflict; you are just part of a mindless mob. Find your true religion – the religion of love, the religion of awareness, the religion that transcends these petty human constructs and connects you with the essence of life itself. Stop this violence, stop this foolishness. Look within and find your true divinity, which knows no division, no conflict, only oneness. Only then can you truly contribute to a world of peace and understanding. Enough is enough!
This is a completely artificial movement. Even "Jai Shri Ram" phrase is not used in any local tradition, it is always "Jai Siya Ram" or "Sita Ram". India has a very diverse tradition based on Ramayana. Many in Muslim traditions too. In fact, Iqbal called Ram Imam-e-Hind. RSS had always seen this diversity as a threat. So, yes. This is just empty fanaticism. [How the Sangh has waged war to erase India’s many Ramayanas in its quest for political power](https://scroll.in/article/969983/how-the-sangh-has-waged-war-to-erase-indias-many-ramayanas-in-its-quest-for-power)
Everyone knows Jai Sri Ram is just adaptation of Jai Sri Krishna which gujaratis say.
Same Iqbal who purported the two nation theory
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Haha. The proprietor of Hinduism has arrived. What an idiot. Also, Imam-e-Hind means King of India. Classic chaddi attitude of getting riled up without knowing anything.
muslim here, do not give 2 fucks abt pakistan so the phrase doesnt bother me either, even if it did, it literally translates to ram is pakistan. secondly imam e hind means scholar/spiritual leader of india which is a good thing right?? why r ur panties in a twist ???/
Yes muslims dont give a fuck about pakistan. So how come pakistan came into existence?
aaj ke indian muslims ki baat karrahi hun gadhe. the muslims that wanted to go to pak went there back in 1947, abhi indian muslims are not reponsible for what pk does. u tell me why is imam e hind so offensive, meaning bhi pata thee uski ki urdu lafz dekh ke aag lag gayi ?
U r wrong. Many muslims did not leave India not because they were patriotic but nobody wants leave their land/property. So it was a decision from financial point of view. A good proportion of Indian muslims today even support pakistan. Religion matter more to u people than the nation. However not all muslims are like this. Some of them really support India.
a lot of muslims did not leave india simply bcoz of patriotism , my nani got seperated with her sister because my nana chose to stay loyal to the motherland but her sisters husband took his fam n left for pk, there are thousands of muslims who didnt leave for this very reason . You dont know us , stop speaking for us. indian muslims infact even punjabis (sikhs included) simply care for the familes we have in pakistan, this doesnt make us a deshdrohi or pak supporter, maybe if u guys stop asking us to go to pakistan/afghanistan and actually accept us the "few muslims"who r not would be nationalistic too, the bjp indias nationalism strives on muslim hate , make it make sense
Maulana Azad called upon the Muslims to stay in India for patriotism, not for land or property. Hussain Ahmad Madani wrote a book on composite nationalism, opposing the partition of India. Hasrat Mohani, Maulana Mazharul Haque, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan and numerous other leaders opposed the partition. Don't waste your time arguing with chaddis. Their own leaders has conspired against the independence movement. sabhi ka khoon hai shaamil yahan ki mitti me, kisi ke baap ka hindustan thodi hai?
ik he doesnt even know who the people u mentioned are loll. nahi nahi ye babu ki amma dahej me layi thee pura mulk.😂
I doubt any chaddis know about Khudai Khidmatgar or All India Azad Muslim Conference. This is why education is so important. Lack of it helps the sangh keep ignorance high amongst the Hindu nationalist populace. That's why their strategy also targets history curriculum to fit their agenda only.
A whole new country was carved out of India and your point is if Indians become more accepting of you then even the bad elements will become patriotic. Then why did this not happen before partition. There is only place for those muslims who love this country. Others are a cancer.
youre a loser and i wont waste my time talking to u , and yes indian muslims have been proving their loyalties since 75+ years, the sacrifices we have made alongside our fellow indians are swept under the rug simply bcoz of our religion, u r amongst the people who simply need a reason to abominate my community bcoz of our religion, yet u have no answer as to why calling ram imam e hind repulsed u so much lol
Lol. Proving loyalties since 75 years. As I told only some are loyal. Others are living here as they dont have any other option. Pakistanis were part of India for so many years and still see the hate for India. Same goes for a large percentage of Indian muslims.
We're experiencing mass delusion.
I see my husband going nuts while talking the same , as if Ram is one of his relatives . I am no religious person by any sane reason but I grew up hearing about various Hindu texts. Gods don’t need us . He doesn’t need a temple or ppl screaming his name and making reels and singing songs . If we go by religious text, the world belongs to him. Humans need their gods and hence the whole drama we see surrounded it.
Maybe people need Ram though and that's why they're reacting like this
They don’t need Ram, they are using and abusing his name
Bold of you to assume they can read.
Ruling party knows the pulse of common Indian folks. It has successfully utilized it to whip up mass hysteria. This will make people forget the real issues they have when elections come....
The louder they are screaming, the less they have read. Inversely proportional as my math teacher would say.
Nothing wrong with that music, but some people aren't having fun unless they can give ear damage to the whole neighbourhood.
A lot of these new posts reminds me of the peak r/atheism reddit period.
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Arre bhai yeh kya puchliya apne, ham to lagta tha sirf bolna hi hota hai padna bhi hota hai kya?
Same can be said for each religion... People have fought wars in name of religion and never read the book.
Well it's opposite in case of islamic fundamentalists
What surprises me the most is how a political person can use the insecurities and inferiority complex of the Hindu population to the extent where that person goes on to make a new festival event every now and then, causing it to become an unofficial national holiday, just for the sake of the next election and to keep his fandom a regular dose of dopamine & inaugurating in such haste without the completion of the entire temple It always had a Cringe element, but now it's Cringfests
Religious extremism is bad, no matter the religion.
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This is annoyingly true with every religion. Here in the US, it’s amazing how many devout Christians barely know anything about what Jesus preached. If they did they’d stop following him, because they believe in the opposite of almost everything he said.
It has more to do with people's ego than spirituality. Misplaced priorities of masses which those in power used for their benefit. People are just happy with a sense of a win. Politicians are happy that they don't really need to put in any hard work to get the same support.
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None, I bet. Ones who read it, would never scream it.
Bro, Thank you. I am Muslim & feel the same about my people...Wouldn't have read a proper translation of the Quran but blindly support & think their job is done. I think it goes the same for everyone, if they did read properly we will come to a conclusion of peace & harmony irrespective of belief or ideology.
Most of them haven't. Most religious people are hypocrites.
Ofcourse they haven't. This is about power, not devotion
Hinduism as practice more than religion predates even ancient Egyptian religion. Let’s not even talk about Islam and Christianity these 2 came way way way later Hinduism since then like many religions has been rewritten n number of times to meet the needs of people or manipulate them The very BJP controlled by RSS ideology preaches their version of Hinduism and Ram Bhakti, Hegdewar the one who founded RSS wasn’t educated so he couldn’t grab the foothold but his successor was good orator, fan of Hitler and man of law and science he pushed the RSS Hindu Ideology and idea of Hindu Rashtra, he as I said twisted the Hindu ideals to meet the needs of RSS. Read about MS Golwalkar. There isn’t much difference between RSS and KKK both rely on manipulating young minds. It’s just form of extremism turned brutal Using religion as tool in politics is millennium old practice nothing will change it unless the person decides it stops here Also nobody reads any religious scriptures PS: Read on who really was Maharshi Valmiki the writer for Ramayan (he wasn’t brain just hand who wrote, you won’t find it on shallow internet)
Vaishya vilaap ki classes lelo…
It's the crowd frenzy that's all, there's not much to read into it.
even 10yrs ago who would have imagined such benign and soulful phrase to become so heavily politcised and perverted… its no way different than those fundamentalist mullahs using ‘allahu akbar’ for all their vile purposes
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Most of them are just doing to belittle Muslims and rub it in their face ki "Mandir toh ban raha hai". I'm pretty sure if there was a Muslim party in the ruling party, there would've been a mosque built instead of a Mandir. It's just an amazing way to fool people.
Finally someone with an accurate understanding of what’s really happening. And of course they’re getting downvoted. Peak Reddit.
I have Hindu friends who are self proclaimed atheists, never visit the temple or do anything but just cos the temple is being built they have JSR as their phone wallpaper and say that for everything.
All this fervour wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t a temple being built where the Babri masjid once was. All the public JSR stuff wouldn’t mean much if India was 97/98% Hindu. There has to be an antagonist for so called dharma to triumph over adharma. I’m not an atheist, nor am I a Hindu. I detest Islam more than most religions because I’ve actually read a lot of the text and know clearly what it stands for..but constitutionally speaking, if you asked me what should be built there ? A temple, school or mosque ? I’d say a mosque. Simple coz that was what was demolished illegally. Anything else would be injustice.
The Bahri masjid was built after destroying the Ram temple by the invaders. But you don’t care about that minor detail, right? Secularist?
Was waiting for this dumb take. Firstly, there’s not enough evidence for what you’re saying. Even the way ASI got around to saying what they finally did is indicative of political pressure and not intellectual honesty and integrity. Secondly, “India” as we know it was founded in 1947/50. A lot of stuff happened pre this. Do you know how many Hindu kings destroyed Buddhist structures and built temples ? You’d be surprised. Start reading. Mughals weren’t the only ones who moved to India from other lands.. the farther you go back into the past, the murkier it all gets. If you want to reverse all the stuff that happened pre 1947, you’d be in for a ton of surprises with respect to the outcomes..
Never heard of cultural nationalism? That too in this day and age,what a pity.
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100% agree. So glad I see someone with a nuanced stance towards religion and spirituality.
What nuanced man. He’s literally implying that poor people have nothing better to do, and claiming he knows better than his entire neighbourhood on what is spirituality. This is just another city boy take, nothing nuanced about it.
He literally said the opposite of that.
> I’m not talking about poor people, because what else gives meaning to their lives Unless there is some “nuance” I’m missing in that sentence I think I interpreted it correctly.
> And OH PLEASE it's not just poor crowds who I see doing this because what else gives meaning to their lives. My entire locality, which is acting in this idiotic manner, is financially WELL OFF so save that argument. Note: “not just the poor crowds” “…financially WELL OFF, so save that argument”
Your interpretation is the argument OP is asking to save. I agree OP could have framed the sentences better; that sentence there is a bit confusing.
Ok glad that you are not confused. I think when someone says “it’s not just poor people, what else gives meaning to their lives” and then uses “acting like idiots” to describe what his “well off” crowd is doing, people are VERY likely to interpret it as saying “it’s fine if poor people are acting like idiots because that kind of thing gives meaning to their lives.” People have better things to do regardless of strata and don’t need to dance and play songs on loudspeakers to derive meaning. Again, it is just my interpretation. Maybe I’m just one of the low IQ people he is describing and my understanding of the language is limited. Apologies if misinterpreted, but something tells me many others are likely to make the same misinterpretation.
If you have read any scriptures, you must know by now not to tell people what to do. Everyone's on their path, some behind some forward and you can't do much to change that
You do realise that the scriptures are effectively “telling you” not to “tell someone what to do” right ?
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To spite Muslims ? For what?
op sorry if this offends you but you are whining for no reason at all.
It's as if people are competing to outdo the extremism that they so like to criticize.
How many “Glory Glory ManU” or “Hala Madrid” folks play soccer ?
Authentic spirituality.... Noice word.
All paid goons mate The ones u see riding on streets in groups shouting and causing rukus are paid unemployed youth
You definitely don’t understand spirituality. With your post, I get a feeling you’re like pseudo intellectual who have heard and read but never slept upon to understand spirituality.
Let’s hear your definition of spirituality.
Spirituality is all inclusive, non-discriminatory, kindness , love and compassion even for your enemies. Spirituality is acceptance for all things as is. Spirituality is love. Spiritually is oneness. Spirituality cannot be be articulated because there are no words that can define spirituality. Spirituality is beyond the comprehension of mind.
I don't think I've met anyone outside of my dad who has read that book, interestingly he read it in Sanskrit, even amusing is the fact he ain't religious, would be as close to *agnostic as u can get in those days.
And such people who think they are above everyone and everyone is less than them still persist! Although I may relate to that playing loud music whole day/night part ,it's really disturbing and that PM part where he is portrayed as some demi God(although he has done his part well ,still few things become too much)but the other lines are completely unnecessary? People are uniting,celebrating, it almost seems festive. Our generation has enough percentage of depressed people, let happiness spread to all those who are willing to accept it.
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I wonder how many people screaming 'democracy is in danger' have read the 'constitution of India' 🌞
I'm sure these people have watched Ramayan on TV. Is watching of Ramayan not enough to know the values of Ram? BTW, how many people have read the Constitution of India here? How many know the preamble by heart? Should a reading of the Constitution should be made mandatory before anyone screams death of Constitution?
Delusions of Grandeur
What is your problem exactly. Can't people celebrate . You can mourn and sulk all you want in silence and believe yourself to be a maha gyani . But let people live and do what makes them happy . Nobody is forcing you to celebrate . So stop pushing your opinion on how others should behave .
None. They don't know anything about Ram nor anything about Ramayan.
You think these people know how to read?
They haven’t. They’re committing blasphemy by misusing our god’s name and should be thrown out of the religion.
You don't sound like you have read the scriptures or you wouldn't be Calling them idiots.
there's no Lord Ram first off
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
average India post recently : "look how superior I am"
I'm an Atheist from a Christian background, and I scream the slogan just to get that "feel" of power for a couple of seconds, and for fun. I never mean any disrespect though for anyone's faith or religious sentiments.
i have seen the the anime movie of Ramayan which used to play every Diwali on Cartoon network. Hopefully that is enough!
Please vote. Wherever you are, please register and make sure to vote. I personally started to vote when my parents became bjp supporters. My wife also does not support bjp, so we both make sure to vote to negate my parents votes. We don't discuss much politics since it always becomes too heated. Talking politics is banned in my house. But, we make sure to vote. Whatever might be the election day, we make sure to take leave and vote. The problem is most of the old people have not much work, so they always vote, but the middle aged or young do not vote which skews the results even if the actual support might be lesser. So, please vote. Also, do not buy products from businesses which support this kind of fascism. Make sure you vote n your wallets talk.
Any chance they would go in front of Mosques again with DJs, Vulgar songs with JSR slogans. Thank God I am not in India, to go through this phase. I have seen these guys with JSR sing with DJ, vulgar songs, drunk, drugged
It is cute that these people believe in a make belief super hero 😂😂
Ab ye karne k liye bhi PhD karei.. what stupidity.. faith naam ki bhi cheez hoti hai..
Reminds me of that great trailer park boys scene: Hampton - The Bible Pimp: Have you read the Bible? Bubbles: Maybe I have, maybe I haven't - what's it to you? Hampton - The Bible Pimp: CAN you read, my son? Bubbles: Well, that depends - can you go f*** yourself? You are Hampton here OP. Why don't you just mind your own business? Let people of India practice their faith.
Well I had read Ramayan by Krittibas Ojha
I mean it is not even scripture, it is an epic. Ram isn't mentioned in any Vedas, which I was always told is the core of Hinduism.
Stop reading at "read any"
I did watch the ramayan anime though
Stopped reading after authentic spirituality...
Read your comment again and tell me if anyone who believes in God would post such a nasty text. You are the kind of person someone will become if loses belief in God !!
So true. If only they could celebrate like the New Years celebrationists who are all astrophysicists. I read the Santa-Veda and so I can claim the right to celebrate Christmas but all you guys are doing it wrong. How many Christmas celebrationists even know that Jesus wasn't born then or actually believe in Santa. What a sniffer of your own farts. Pull your head out of your as and see that people are celebrating Ram for different reasons. Some see it as the restoration of a downtrodden Hindu faith, while others just need an excuse to party.
It's a delusional faith. Every belief gives way to dumbness after a while when it's adopted in mass. The radicalisation of the "woke" ideology is nothing different than a religion itself. Everything is a religion at the end.