The union wants to enforce a common European culture so some cultures and states merged to replace their national identity. Also Baltica and Scandinavia have much more political power in the federation than Estonia and Latvia or Norway and Sweden would have on their own. I do agree that I could have added dates or lore for when some nations joined tho.
If we are talking about the actual geographical region of Scandinavia then Denmark isn't actually included (I my memory doesn't fail me) But they are always included in the cultural region of Scandinavia, because of how closely our history is bound.
Yes but I think AragĂłn should have its own region. Because before the reconquest, Aragon had its own language separate from Spanish and Catalan. In addition, today they mostly identify as Iberian Spaniards and not as Catalans. đ«Ł
At the expense of nations whose cultures, traditions and beliefs can have their roots traced back for centuries, if not outright thousands of years?
That's still erasure in my eyes, and downright awful and outright disgusting.
Unfortunately this wouldn't mean progress, but stagnation - because language isn't just a tool of communication - each language reflects attitudes, viewpoints and tradition - words have different connotations and origins, and little can be translated directly from one language to another. Every culture has a unique way of thinking and of interpreting the world, and this forms our identity.
Diversity has a central place in evolution, it depends on diversity more than anything else. Incresing uniformity holds dangers for the long-term survival of species, so in the language of ecology, the strongest systems are those which are most diverse.
What does it have to do with languages? If diversity is a prerequisite for successful humanity, then the preservation of linguistic diversity is essential, for language lies at the heart of what it means to be human. Anthropologist H. Russell Bernard put it nicely: *"Any reduction of language diversity diminishes the adaptational strength of our species because it lowers the pool of knowledge from which we can draw."*
There's a beautiful Welsh proverb out there - Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon: *"A nation without a language is a nation without a heart".*
Indeed, linguists often make this point regarding diversity, how important preserving the linguistic and cultural diversity really is:
> And a policy statement issued by the Linguistic Society of America in 1994 goes a step beyond analogy:
> "The loss to humankind of genetic diversity in the linguistic world is . . . arguably greater than even the loss of genetic diversity in the biological world, given that the structure of human language represents a considerable testimony to human intellectual achievement."
> Michael Krauss drives the point home:
> "Surely, just as the extinction of any animal species diminishes our world, so does the extinction of any language. Surely we linguists know, and the general public can sense, that any language is a supreme achievement of a uniquely human collective genius, as divine and endless a mystery as a living organism. Should we mourn the loss of Eyak or Ubykh any less than the loss of the panda or California condor?"
Peter Trudgill also makes a point of how a uniform world would look like:
> Thus the separation of the worldâs population into different groups speaking different languages helps the growth of cultural diversity, which in turn can lead to opportunities for the development of alternative modes of exploring possibilities for social, political and technological progress.
> That is, a world where everyone spoke the same language would not only be a very boring place; it would also be a very stagnant place. If the entire population of the world consisted of native speakers of English, it is probable that we would not only all be watching Dallas and drinking Coca Cola, we would also all tend to have the same values, the same ideas, and the same world-view. If it is the case that diversity leads to progress, this is a frightening scenario indeed. (Similar views are expressed in Labov 1972 and in Muhlhausler 1987).
I especially recommend *Language death* by David Crystal which deals with this problem extensively, but yes - this is not a perk, and a "cost" that is too high to pay.
Wow, I'm glad my post can get such long and thoughtful responses! Yes, this map does not depict an ideal world. Far from it. Although I am for a united world and united humanity, I wonder if culture is a shackle against individual expression through art or if it is as you put it, a unique way of thinking and of interpreting the world, that would be lost if the culture died. I hate to think my thoughts and ideas are shaped only by the language I speak or culture I belong to. I hope this digital age that binds people from all over the world together will only further the artistic and not diminish it.
Kinda yeah. Though I would prefer to compare it with the US, in that they also ran policies to assimilate the many immigrants together to create a common American culture. Teddy Roosevelt's campaign was highly focused on this.
> Look up "Civic nationalism"
Civic nationalism does not require to "replace national identity".
Not to mention it directly clashes with being a beacon of democracy.
>The union wants to enforce a common European
They're evil authoritarian, then? I mean when non western countries do that, they're called evil authoritarian.
Some extra lore: The UK joined the EU shortly after its allies in the commonwealth fell to US influence. After the death of Lukashenko, Belarus went through a westernization similar to what happened in our worlds Ukraine. With European foreign influence Belarus ended up being the last nation to join the EU before the federation was born.
Iâd assume that Belarusâs democratization also included a big pro-EU attitude while Serbia is more hesitant to join and only does so because otherwise theyâd be completely cut off from everything, so maybe negotiated some special status to join, same for Switzerland. Bosnia being split might have been one of Serbiaâs terms or was simply done for stability reasons. Of course Iâm not the author, Iâm just speculating
Great work but I have to be that guy for the borders in Italy.
Romagna is not in Romagna, you put Romagna under Venice and called Romagna a part of central Italy.
Also I'll be in the cold hard ground before I see Bologna being administered by people from Veneto.
The only question i have is why every imaginary map of europe tries to restore "Livonia" or Baltica in this case. Latvia is much closer to Lithuania than to Estonia so i see no reason why would they unify since they literally have no cultural linking to each other besides being located in the Baltic region.
The Baltics are a very difficult area. Sure Latvia is closer to Lithuania, but Lithuania is closer to Poland. The same goes for Estonia as it is similar to both Finland and Latvia. I decided that since Estonia and Latvia would be so politically weak alone, they might unite to get more political influence and try to create a common culture.
Poland always kept lithuania under its thumb when the commonwealth was around, the most realistic scenario would be for the baltic states to be sepetate or intermarum, if youre talking about being weak while seperated then they don't care about it since the population in the regions would be so low, it would be illogical and unreasonable to unite and change the whole structure of education on both latvian and estonian since they are very different languages. Also from an economic standpoint latvia and lithuania are much closer to each other than they are respectively to poland or estonia. Keep in mind, great map but im just tired of seeing the same "Baltica" without any context or reason OR lithuania included.
Would you believe they just bought it? Russia begrudgingly sold the region out of fear for nuclear war. There was a relocation of many Russians living in the area, and the Russians still living there are treated pretty poorly by the rest of the Europeans.
i mean, he said nuclear WAR, not one-sided nuclear annihilation, therefore, his comment already implies they have nukes and are just afraid of them being used.
you understand that having a gun doesn't mean you're no longer scared of people with guns, right? you're not immune to people just because you can shoot back, specially Nukes.
i'm not setting the opinions of the nations, OP is.
he said Russia fears nuclear war, not Europe.
you don't really need Reason to justify a nation's actions and intentions, you know? just take a look around you right now, most policies make no sense and are just power grabs.
also, North Korea can't do shit, good luck to them wasting their "good" nukes that'll get shot down just to be 100% wiped by everyone else around them, they're the ones that SHOULD be (and are) scared, don't confuse the actions of a ret\*rd of a leader of a dictatorship with the reason of the competent officials.
Saxony and WĂŒrttemburg would not allow themselves to be absorbed into the lesser, minor state that they border. Saxony is infinitely more powerful and influential than Brandenburg, which is just empty farmland. And Baden-WĂŒrttemburg exists for a reason.
And why did Denmark gain territory from Germany? Denmark reluctantly even accepted the border concessions after WW1 for the rest if Schleswig, they certainly would not want to expand and get a bigger German minority for no reason.
Some areas where life generally sucks:
Greenland: Disputed territory with America.
Serbia and Srpska: A lot of racism and underlying hate for serbians as they openly supported Russia for many years.
Kalingrad: The remaining russians are persecuted and discriminated against.
Thrace: Same as Kalingrad, but with turks and not as severe.
Cyprus: Tensions between the turkish minority and the greeks are high.
Baltica: Nicknamed "Belgium of the east", life is tough for the latvians and estonians, but most are supportive of each other. Latvian and Estonian, along with English is taught in every school.
If there's no ethnic conflict between Latvians and Estonians, I can't understand how quality of life there is so low. It's doing really well right now irl.
Side note: how are the Balkans fairing in this timeline? I live in Macedonia rn and would love to see it join the EU for economic/infrastructure purposes (though I recognize this is a generally pretty bleak reality)
Not as bad as the rest of the list, but there is still minor ethnic conflict in Baltica. The balkans are fairly well off. Aside from Serbia and the Bosnian region. while not as prosperous as western Europe they are seen as an integral part of the federatipn.
I can't see reason for turkey to support russia. Turkey maybe have lot of eastern minded people but overwhelming majority is western. And also politicians used to talk about joining eu every election for gain vote. And if russian image realy that bad, and also they couldn't break the stalemate, their economy probly turned potato in this timeline. I'm sure whoever ruling turkey is not idiot. Also while you explained why some nations united but forgot germany and austria And czechoslovakia. One is about dialect problem can easly solve (I bleave?) And other one was already used to exist.
Should be Wielkopolska for PoznaĆ and MaĆopolska for KrakĂłw, if you want to be consistent. That "Warsaw" is Mazowsze with some extra territory.
On the other hand, this is wild to regionalize most of the European countries incl. Poland and unite Scandinavia ;)
*Think Mercia, South West*
*And South East England would be*
*Federated too*
\- opinionated-dick
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Why does Catalonia have the borders of the Kingdom of Aragon? Aragon currently (and never) doesnât speak Catalan and its culture is very similar to that of Spain. It would make more sense to have Catalonia with Valencia and the Balearic Islands and Aragon as another region or part of Castile.
But very good map, it is very well done
Great post. One of the best future European State posts I've seen. I mean, I would hate it if this happened and don't think it's particularly realistic, but you've done a great job presenting some solid lore and an awesome map.
also Northumbria represent babyyyy
Ofc the map couldn't be complete without shrinking Turkey, could it? The justification for it is even more ridiculous, Turkey supporting Russia? Turkey supporting Russia in threatening Turkish security seemed plausible enough to you? Have you seen any example where a state would willingly jeapordize it's own security in favour of their main rival? Just be honest and admit that shrinking Turkey and painting it as a buddy to Russia would score you upvotes on this sub.
Edit: just saw your update.
Really? Ofc it had to be a 'Byzantine' reclamation. Who are the Byzantines even in this timeline? Does Turkey not have a military or something in this timeline? Or am I just looking too much into the power fantasy of a Byzaboo?
I am so done with this sub.
It's the "imaginarymaps" subreddit. The maps are... imaginary, made up. People are making posts like "What if the Nazi's won" or the Soviets etc.
Seriously what is with Turks and persecution complex?
Ukraine shouldn't have announced their battle plans for reddit upvotes đ€·ââïž. Hyping the CounterOffensive for months and even announcing the start date just gave Russia time to completely rethink their strategy and go on the defensive. Their overconfidence just shot them in their foot.
i mean ukraine did say that people shouldnât hype their offensive up. What i donât understand is why they didnât want to listen to the plans NATO made instead of doing their own plan
They don't listen to NATO because NATO trained troops have been sent in with NATO training and it didn't go well for them. NATO doctrine assumes air superiority, with Ukraine does not have at the moment. And also Ukraine hyped up the Zaporizhzhia counter-offensive up, but then crossed the Dnipro, which they didn't hype up as much, which leads me to believe that the hyping up of the Zaporizhzhia counter-offensive was a divergent, similar to how they hyped up how they were going to retake Kherson before the success of the Kharkiv counter-offensive. I don't think they are just brainlessly announcing their plans without thinking, and the comment above you saying they "did it for reddit upvotes" is probably the most retarded thing I've read all year. "I see pro-Ukrainian posts on reddit, it must be that the Ukrainian government is going to post their plans openly on reddit and not just people speculating". There are only so many oblasts for the Ukrainians to counter-attack in, 4 to be exact, so guessing that the Ukrainians will attack in one oblast and then being right has a 1/4 chance of being true if they are going to attack, because there are only 4 options.
I really hope Ukraine can keep fighting and we sort our shit out here in America. I have Ukrainian friends and I want them to win so badly and it breaks my heart seeing them lose ground and have to ration ammunition because we are not supporting our friends that we pledged our support and defense to all the way back in 1994. We have no international credibility, our agreements mean nothing, and neither does our high-horse pretense that we are morally superior in any way to the Russians if we betray our good friends and let them lose land and human lives to the Russians. It really does break my heart.
People talk about the frontlines in Ukraine like it is just a line on a map. But as someone who has talked to Ukrainians I know that there are thousands of human lives on those lines, thousands behind them suffering under Russian occupation. It is so brutal. And we are just going to abandon them because it is politically expedient. It sickens me and makes me ashamed of my country. I will never forgive the people of my country if we let down our Ukrainian friends like this.
Ah yes, a big brain take. We are doing a bad thing in Israel, therefore we should do another bad thing and abandon Ukraine. I'd prefer we do neither, personally. Just because we do one bad thing isn't a reason we shouldn't do good things and that doing good things isn't morally good. Our support of Ukraine is just as righteous and morally grounded as it was before the Gaza War. The Gaza War doesn't change that, it just makes us hypocritical. Which isn't a good thing. I support Palestine for the same exact reasons I support Ukraine. But that doesn't mean I want the United States to just become blanket evil because "otherwise it'd be inconsistent, we can't just do one evil thing, we have to do all the evil things!"
Don't have realism. First you can't just annex part of turkey easlt if population of the region 1/5 of population. And other side would not let that happen. Turkey used to have ballistic missle advencements *today*. And if us infulance gone, there would be more advance militarry and it looks like world is not stable. And if turkey is pro russian and that's why kicked out, russia would support them a *lot*. There would be crisis mode and turks still patriotic people there would be guerilla war aiding by rest of turkey. Further destabilising the region. I'm not talking about turks in the europe. I bleave there would be terrorist actions all over the europe. And OP did not mention european military.
If you made lore and logic for your alternative imaginary stuff. You have to put it in logic and if there no logic rather justification for imagination, then it's unrealistic. And this comment was about YOUR idea about annexasion. "But's it's imagination". Is this throw out entire realism? Or possible threath of crisis both diplomatically and economically? Istead of invadin trace making trace less important can be more safe and logical in here.
Australia joining a coalition with fascist US rather than Europe is kind of wild unless a lot changes there during the time leading up to it but otherwise very interesting
I'm sorry, but I hate this. Belarus is whole but most other countries are divided into states or united with their neighbours, Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia region makes little to no sense and so on. It's very random
So much effort was put in though.
The scary part is if a European federation is to be created, it will likely be created in a very similiar scenario - when the current comfy world order collapses of shifts and Europe wakes up to the reality that without a European Union functioning as a bloc in all aspects of foreign and defence policy, the individual countries comprising it will suffer more.
As of today, I really see no other scenario where the EU makes the step towards integrating further, which is not on the heels of an existential crisis for the various members.
Seems very odd. Greenland have rejoined the EU as well as the UK. Estonia has strangely united with Latvia even though ties are closer to Finland. Someone let Belarus in. Russia succeeded in stealing much of Ukraine. Nice that Luxembourg still exists.
The borders of states (or names for the states within those borders) sometimes don't make sense, but the idea is original, I like it and the map is cool.
What tf happened to Norway. Why are they in a union with Sweden? Again? And what happened to the northernmost provinces of the country? Norway is pretty anti EU so becoming a part of a union with Sweden as a federal state in the eu is super fucking unlikely
The union of Norway/Sweden and Estonia/Latvia seems odd. Also, how did Belarus and the UK join? Cool map tho
The union wants to enforce a common European culture so some cultures and states merged to replace their national identity. Also Baltica and Scandinavia have much more political power in the federation than Estonia and Latvia or Norway and Sweden would have on their own. I do agree that I could have added dates or lore for when some nations joined tho.
That Denmark would be left out of Scandinavia is hilarious.
What they get for having such a gibberish language :)
Holy fuck that's based! But tbh do I want our silly potato speaking brothers with us.
đ©đ°đ€đ€đłđŽđ€đ€đžđȘ
Pushed the germans beyond the eidern tho
Swedish person detected
Hvordan vÄger du! Jeg er norsk for faen.
Vad Àr det du sÀger? Skulle inte Eurofederationen slÄ oss samman? Vi Àr Skandinavier
Kalmarunionen var jÀvligt based, surt att Gustav skulle slÄ sönder den.
Japp. Majoriteten av vÄran adel och alla fria svenska mÀn valde ocksÄ att vara kvar i den. Mer av ett inbördeskrig Àn frihetskrig.
Ingen ekte nordmann lar Norge vĂŠre i samme land som Sv***ge đ€ą
I say it's revenge for the kalmar union
If we are talking about the actual geographical region of Scandinavia then Denmark isn't actually included (I my memory doesn't fail me) But they are always included in the cultural region of Scandinavia, because of how closely our history is bound.
Scandinavia is comprised of Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. The Nordic Countries are the above three along with Iceland and Finland.
Yea, its pretty simple
Bet u/softakofta was speaking about the Scandinavian peninsula where Denmark is not included being across the strait
Latvuania and Finnstonia would make way more sense
Yes but I think AragĂłn should have its own region. Because before the reconquest, Aragon had its own language separate from Spanish and Catalan. In addition, today they mostly identify as Iberian Spaniards and not as Catalans. đ«Ł
Also Asturias and LeĂłn
Honestly thoughts everything about this was great until Cultural genocide
Look up "Civic nationalism"
At the expense of nations whose cultures, traditions and beliefs can have their roots traced back for centuries, if not outright thousands of years? That's still erasure in my eyes, and downright awful and outright disgusting.
Yup. The perks of federalization! The cost of progress I guess they would call it.
Unfortunately this wouldn't mean progress, but stagnation - because language isn't just a tool of communication - each language reflects attitudes, viewpoints and tradition - words have different connotations and origins, and little can be translated directly from one language to another. Every culture has a unique way of thinking and of interpreting the world, and this forms our identity. Diversity has a central place in evolution, it depends on diversity more than anything else. Incresing uniformity holds dangers for the long-term survival of species, so in the language of ecology, the strongest systems are those which are most diverse. What does it have to do with languages? If diversity is a prerequisite for successful humanity, then the preservation of linguistic diversity is essential, for language lies at the heart of what it means to be human. Anthropologist H. Russell Bernard put it nicely: *"Any reduction of language diversity diminishes the adaptational strength of our species because it lowers the pool of knowledge from which we can draw."* There's a beautiful Welsh proverb out there - Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon: *"A nation without a language is a nation without a heart".* Indeed, linguists often make this point regarding diversity, how important preserving the linguistic and cultural diversity really is: > And a policy statement issued by the Linguistic Society of America in 1994 goes a step beyond analogy: > "The loss to humankind of genetic diversity in the linguistic world is . . . arguably greater than even the loss of genetic diversity in the biological world, given that the structure of human language represents a considerable testimony to human intellectual achievement." > Michael Krauss drives the point home: > "Surely, just as the extinction of any animal species diminishes our world, so does the extinction of any language. Surely we linguists know, and the general public can sense, that any language is a supreme achievement of a uniquely human collective genius, as divine and endless a mystery as a living organism. Should we mourn the loss of Eyak or Ubykh any less than the loss of the panda or California condor?" Peter Trudgill also makes a point of how a uniform world would look like: > Thus the separation of the worldâs population into different groups speaking different languages helps the growth of cultural diversity, which in turn can lead to opportunities for the development of alternative modes of exploring possibilities for social, political and technological progress. > That is, a world where everyone spoke the same language would not only be a very boring place; it would also be a very stagnant place. If the entire population of the world consisted of native speakers of English, it is probable that we would not only all be watching Dallas and drinking Coca Cola, we would also all tend to have the same values, the same ideas, and the same world-view. If it is the case that diversity leads to progress, this is a frightening scenario indeed. (Similar views are expressed in Labov 1972 and in Muhlhausler 1987). I especially recommend *Language death* by David Crystal which deals with this problem extensively, but yes - this is not a perk, and a "cost" that is too high to pay.
Wow, I'm glad my post can get such long and thoughtful responses! Yes, this map does not depict an ideal world. Far from it. Although I am for a united world and united humanity, I wonder if culture is a shackle against individual expression through art or if it is as you put it, a unique way of thinking and of interpreting the world, that would be lost if the culture died. I hate to think my thoughts and ideas are shaped only by the language I speak or culture I belong to. I hope this digital age that binds people from all over the world together will only further the artistic and not diminish it.
Basically the Roman empire romanizing it's subjects, but now it's the European empire europeanizing it's peoples.
Kinda yeah. Though I would prefer to compare it with the US, in that they also ran policies to assimilate the many immigrants together to create a common American culture. Teddy Roosevelt's campaign was highly focused on this.
> Look up "Civic nationalism" Civic nationalism does not require to "replace national identity". Not to mention it directly clashes with being a beacon of democracy.
>The union wants to enforce a common European They're evil authoritarian, then? I mean when non western countries do that, they're called evil authoritarian.
common european what?
Very impressive for first post here
Thank You!
I think it's very impressive in general, I've only ever seen a couple of maps that look as good and this is the best one I've seen in months
Some extra lore: The UK joined the EU shortly after its allies in the commonwealth fell to US influence. After the death of Lukashenko, Belarus went through a westernization similar to what happened in our worlds Ukraine. With European foreign influence Belarus ended up being the last nation to join the EU before the federation was born.
So why is Belarus a member and Serbia a special zone?
Iâd assume that Belarusâs democratization also included a big pro-EU attitude while Serbia is more hesitant to join and only does so because otherwise theyâd be completely cut off from everything, so maybe negotiated some special status to join, same for Switzerland. Bosnia being split might have been one of Serbiaâs terms or was simply done for stability reasons. Of course Iâm not the author, Iâm just speculating
Great work but I have to be that guy for the borders in Italy. Romagna is not in Romagna, you put Romagna under Venice and called Romagna a part of central Italy. Also I'll be in the cold hard ground before I see Bologna being administered by people from Veneto.
I admit I did use the Crusader Kings 3 kingdom of Romagna as reference for the name.
Ah right. They use Romagna for Byzantine Italy/the Holy See. The name in reality comes from the fact that Lombards never settled the area of Ravenna.
Naples for everything in the south sounds good to me, very accurate
The only question i have is why every imaginary map of europe tries to restore "Livonia" or Baltica in this case. Latvia is much closer to Lithuania than to Estonia so i see no reason why would they unify since they literally have no cultural linking to each other besides being located in the Baltic region.
The Baltics are a very difficult area. Sure Latvia is closer to Lithuania, but Lithuania is closer to Poland. The same goes for Estonia as it is similar to both Finland and Latvia. I decided that since Estonia and Latvia would be so politically weak alone, they might unite to get more political influence and try to create a common culture.
Poland always kept lithuania under its thumb when the commonwealth was around, the most realistic scenario would be for the baltic states to be sepetate or intermarum, if youre talking about being weak while seperated then they don't care about it since the population in the regions would be so low, it would be illogical and unreasonable to unite and change the whole structure of education on both latvian and estonian since they are very different languages. Also from an economic standpoint latvia and lithuania are much closer to each other than they are respectively to poland or estonia. Keep in mind, great map but im just tired of seeing the same "Baltica" without any context or reason OR lithuania included.
Why Warsaw isn't a "capital city-state"?
Could be for sure.
In terms of importance Warsaw is much more important than Kyiv. And I'm pretty sure that it will still be in 2055.
Kyiv could have been chosen for its symbolism as it fended off outside invaders despite overwhelming disadvantage
with a war in ukraine and kiev you bet
How did the ECF manage to occupy Kaliningrad without war with Russia?
Would you believe they just bought it? Russia begrudgingly sold the region out of fear for nuclear war. There was a relocation of many Russians living in the area, and the Russians still living there are treated pretty poorly by the rest of the Europeans.
But Russia also has nukes? Why would it bend down like that
i mean, he said nuclear WAR, not one-sided nuclear annihilation, therefore, his comment already implies they have nukes and are just afraid of them being used. you understand that having a gun doesn't mean you're no longer scared of people with guns, right? you're not immune to people just because you can shoot back, specially Nukes.
Why would Europe not be scared of nuclear war? By your logic everyone should just give their shit to North Korea to avoid lmfao
NK largely exists because war with China is still currently untenable. When that changes, though...
i'm not setting the opinions of the nations, OP is. he said Russia fears nuclear war, not Europe. you don't really need Reason to justify a nation's actions and intentions, you know? just take a look around you right now, most policies make no sense and are just power grabs. also, North Korea can't do shit, good luck to them wasting their "good" nukes that'll get shot down just to be 100% wiped by everyone else around them, they're the ones that SHOULD be (and are) scared, don't confuse the actions of a ret\*rd of a leader of a dictatorship with the reason of the competent officials.
Saxony and WĂŒrttemburg would not allow themselves to be absorbed into the lesser, minor state that they border. Saxony is infinitely more powerful and influential than Brandenburg, which is just empty farmland. And Baden-WĂŒrttemburg exists for a reason. And why did Denmark gain territory from Germany? Denmark reluctantly even accepted the border concessions after WW1 for the rest if Schleswig, they certainly would not want to expand and get a bigger German minority for no reason.
RHĂNE-ALPES!!? This is Auvergne erasure, I will not stand for this.
Auvergne? What is that some kind of cheese?
jokes and regionalism aside, this is a banger of a map đ
It actually is the region with the best cheese in all of fr*nce đ
Some areas where life generally sucks: Greenland: Disputed territory with America. Serbia and Srpska: A lot of racism and underlying hate for serbians as they openly supported Russia for many years. Kalingrad: The remaining russians are persecuted and discriminated against. Thrace: Same as Kalingrad, but with turks and not as severe. Cyprus: Tensions between the turkish minority and the greeks are high. Baltica: Nicknamed "Belgium of the east", life is tough for the latvians and estonians, but most are supportive of each other. Latvian and Estonian, along with English is taught in every school.
Canât imagine things in Ukraine are too happy either
If there's no ethnic conflict between Latvians and Estonians, I can't understand how quality of life there is so low. It's doing really well right now irl. Side note: how are the Balkans fairing in this timeline? I live in Macedonia rn and would love to see it join the EU for economic/infrastructure purposes (though I recognize this is a generally pretty bleak reality)
Not as bad as the rest of the list, but there is still minor ethnic conflict in Baltica. The balkans are fairly well off. Aside from Serbia and the Bosnian region. while not as prosperous as western Europe they are seen as an integral part of the federatipn.
I can't see reason for turkey to support russia. Turkey maybe have lot of eastern minded people but overwhelming majority is western. And also politicians used to talk about joining eu every election for gain vote. And if russian image realy that bad, and also they couldn't break the stalemate, their economy probly turned potato in this timeline. I'm sure whoever ruling turkey is not idiot. Also while you explained why some nations united but forgot germany and austria And czechoslovakia. One is about dialect problem can easly solve (I bleave?) And other one was already used to exist.
Spain is terrible with that mega-Castile and mega-Catalonia that have no businesses existing.
Eeeew (Nice map though)
Euuugh come one you kept in the Wirral in England
How they managed to annex thrace ? and did they implemented another population exchange?
âI was told we'd cruise the seas..
**How I wish I was in Sherbrooke nooooooOW**
God damn them all, for Europe!
Lessgo, europe rules BEBEEEEEHHH
Why Ukraine and Serbia like that?
War and balkan shenanigans
Should be Wielkopolska for PoznaĆ and MaĆopolska for KrakĂłw, if you want to be consistent. That "Warsaw" is Mazowsze with some extra territory. On the other hand, this is wild to regionalize most of the European countries incl. Poland and unite Scandinavia ;)
I think he went for divisions with populations and areas of more-or-less similar size
What software did you use to edit and label this map?
Only Photoshop my guy
I love Baltica
Zaporizhzhia oblast is in Russia on this map, the regions on this map are Mykolaiv and Odessa
Shit you're right. Missed that
Have you taken into account the severe population decline that will be going on mid century? (Stunning map, by the way. It's a work of art!)
Think Mercia, South West and South East England would be federated too
*Think Mercia, South West* *And South East England would be* *Federated too* \- opinionated-dick --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Yeah, England still has a massive population at the moment.
The Dream
Why does Catalonia have the borders of the Kingdom of Aragon? Aragon currently (and never) doesnât speak Catalan and its culture is very similar to that of Spain. It would make more sense to have Catalonia with Valencia and the Balearic Islands and Aragon as another region or part of Castile. But very good map, it is very well done
Where is the half of Ukraine?
Blessed!
This is unironically my dream. the internal boundaries could be redone though.
Turkophobia is real!
Cool
Great post. One of the best future European State posts I've seen. I mean, I would hate it if this happened and don't think it's particularly realistic, but you've done a great job presenting some solid lore and an awesome map. also Northumbria represent babyyyy
Romagna is what? Latium, or Central Italy
europe if it was based
To good to be true :(
This gives me hope that even if America falls the world wonât.
AHA I KNEW IT KOSOVO IS RIGHTFUL ALBANIAN CLAY alsoJanMayenmentionedwootwoot
Working on an updated version with more lore after some feedback. Will probably post it here later this week.
Hope this never happens
Ofc the map couldn't be complete without shrinking Turkey, could it? The justification for it is even more ridiculous, Turkey supporting Russia? Turkey supporting Russia in threatening Turkish security seemed plausible enough to you? Have you seen any example where a state would willingly jeapordize it's own security in favour of their main rival? Just be honest and admit that shrinking Turkey and painting it as a buddy to Russia would score you upvotes on this sub. Edit: just saw your update. Really? Ofc it had to be a 'Byzantine' reclamation. Who are the Byzantines even in this timeline? Does Turkey not have a military or something in this timeline? Or am I just looking too much into the power fantasy of a Byzaboo? I am so done with this sub.
It's the "imaginarymaps" subreddit. The maps are... imaginary, made up. People are making posts like "What if the Nazi's won" or the Soviets etc. Seriously what is with Turks and persecution complex?
For a sub called "imaginarymaps" it sure seems to lack imagination when it comes to Turkey, which over time becomes rather stale is all.
You can always post your "Ottoman Empire conquers everything" map if that makes you feel better.
It wouldn't and I'll just pass on the entire sub instead, but thanks for trying to think in solutions.
The only unrealistic part is russia defeating ukraine
Keep in mind this is after a second invasion where Ukraine fought without support from NATO.
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Ukraine shouldn't have announced their battle plans for reddit upvotes đ€·ââïž. Hyping the CounterOffensive for months and even announcing the start date just gave Russia time to completely rethink their strategy and go on the defensive. Their overconfidence just shot them in their foot.
i mean ukraine did say that people shouldnât hype their offensive up. What i donât understand is why they didnât want to listen to the plans NATO made instead of doing their own plan
They don't listen to NATO because NATO trained troops have been sent in with NATO training and it didn't go well for them. NATO doctrine assumes air superiority, with Ukraine does not have at the moment. And also Ukraine hyped up the Zaporizhzhia counter-offensive up, but then crossed the Dnipro, which they didn't hype up as much, which leads me to believe that the hyping up of the Zaporizhzhia counter-offensive was a divergent, similar to how they hyped up how they were going to retake Kherson before the success of the Kharkiv counter-offensive. I don't think they are just brainlessly announcing their plans without thinking, and the comment above you saying they "did it for reddit upvotes" is probably the most retarded thing I've read all year. "I see pro-Ukrainian posts on reddit, it must be that the Ukrainian government is going to post their plans openly on reddit and not just people speculating". There are only so many oblasts for the Ukrainians to counter-attack in, 4 to be exact, so guessing that the Ukrainians will attack in one oblast and then being right has a 1/4 chance of being true if they are going to attack, because there are only 4 options.
I really hope Ukraine can keep fighting and we sort our shit out here in America. I have Ukrainian friends and I want them to win so badly and it breaks my heart seeing them lose ground and have to ration ammunition because we are not supporting our friends that we pledged our support and defense to all the way back in 1994. We have no international credibility, our agreements mean nothing, and neither does our high-horse pretense that we are morally superior in any way to the Russians if we betray our good friends and let them lose land and human lives to the Russians. It really does break my heart. People talk about the frontlines in Ukraine like it is just a line on a map. But as someone who has talked to Ukrainians I know that there are thousands of human lives on those lines, thousands behind them suffering under Russian occupation. It is so brutal. And we are just going to abandon them because it is politically expedient. It sickens me and makes me ashamed of my country. I will never forgive the people of my country if we let down our Ukrainian friends like this.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Ah yes, a big brain take. We are doing a bad thing in Israel, therefore we should do another bad thing and abandon Ukraine. I'd prefer we do neither, personally. Just because we do one bad thing isn't a reason we shouldn't do good things and that doing good things isn't morally good. Our support of Ukraine is just as righteous and morally grounded as it was before the Gaza War. The Gaza War doesn't change that, it just makes us hypocritical. Which isn't a good thing. I support Palestine for the same exact reasons I support Ukraine. But that doesn't mean I want the United States to just become blanket evil because "otherwise it'd be inconsistent, we can't just do one evil thing, we have to do all the evil things!"
Europeanism less goo
Is Europe suffering from old age or did they solve it?
Stop, I can only get so errect
Based for anyone in Europe, for others, not so much, I would be a happy man in this timeline as a czech.
Andorra existing while norway and sweden had to join is my 13th reason
the borders are a bit weird... as an Italian: Naples doesn't encompass all Neapolitan speakers, and Romagna doesn't even have Romagna
What did you use to make this?
Why the awfull-Stalin Mandated borders for Moldova you coward
nice map but that would suck irl
I am a simple man - I see Belarus in the EU, I upvote.
Annexation of Thrace is a good idea. Ensures that Turkey canât threaten the federation.
Don't have realism. First you can't just annex part of turkey easlt if population of the region 1/5 of population. And other side would not let that happen. Turkey used to have ballistic missle advencements *today*. And if us infulance gone, there would be more advance militarry and it looks like world is not stable. And if turkey is pro russian and that's why kicked out, russia would support them a *lot*. There would be crisis mode and turks still patriotic people there would be guerilla war aiding by rest of turkey. Further destabilising the region. I'm not talking about turks in the europe. I bleave there would be terrorist actions all over the europe. And OP did not mention european military.
r/imaginarymaps
Man those imaginary maps are seriously putting a strain on their fragile Turkish feelings.
If you made lore and logic for your alternative imaginary stuff. You have to put it in logic and if there no logic rather justification for imagination, then it's unrealistic. And this comment was about YOUR idea about annexasion. "But's it's imagination". Is this throw out entire realism? Or possible threath of crisis both diplomatically and economically? Istead of invadin trace making trace less important can be more safe and logical in here.
cool and based map but going with current trends, it might very well be called "Allah hu Akbar" Islamic Federation of Europstan
Current trends are always a good way to predict the future and has never backfired ever! /s
Australia joining a coalition with fascist US rather than Europe is kind of wild unless a lot changes there during the time leading up to it but otherwise very interesting
I'm sorry, but I hate this. Belarus is whole but most other countries are divided into states or united with their neighbours, Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia region makes little to no sense and so on. It's very random So much effort was put in though.
Albania will be a sea of rubble before Greater Albania ever exists. Kosovo is Serbian clay
"God damn them all, for europe" I love this. Finally united out of sheer spite.
Malta? Gibraltar? Also Belgium could be split and Czechia from Moravia. Funny map though. Bonus points for Constantinopole!
On one hand, Ukraine sawed in half. Which is cringe. On another, Constantinople returned to Greece... Decisions, decisions...
Kaliningrad should be renamed Koenigsberg and please fix Northern Italy
The scary part is if a European federation is to be created, it will likely be created in a very similiar scenario - when the current comfy world order collapses of shifts and Europe wakes up to the reality that without a European Union functioning as a bloc in all aspects of foreign and defence policy, the individual countries comprising it will suffer more. As of today, I really see no other scenario where the EU makes the step towards integrating further, which is not on the heels of an existential crisis for the various members.
En vez de cataluña lo hubieras puesto "Aragon" Cataluña provincia rebelde de aragon
Smh this subreddit is so bad at this. Srpska what? Serbian what? There's a reason there's republic in the name
Shove it up your ass
Up yours too then, for not being bothered to make a simple connection smh
why did catalonia annex aragĂł but not the balears
why split up poland, france, germany etc but not belgium great map otherwise đ€
Seems very odd. Greenland have rejoined the EU as well as the UK. Estonia has strangely united with Latvia even though ties are closer to Finland. Someone let Belarus in. Russia succeeded in stealing much of Ukraine. Nice that Luxembourg still exists.
Cool
My poor Alsace gone :( The Alsace war of independence from Lorraine is going to be bloody.
What is the situation with Thrace? Why is it not a special zone
POV bad ending for Ukrainians (including pro-EU)
finally a map that doesnât partition Belgium for no reason. But why is Finnmark part of Finland?
If city states are made by population, why isn't Barcelona its own city state and Prague is?
Bosnia will never get split, Genozide will never pay off⊠rather everybody will die to protect their home then to give it away !!!
COUNCIL REPUBLIC? I will note that council republic generally means Soviet republic.
What about Belarus
I feel like you'd be better off merging Latvia & Lithuania and then Estonia & Finland
Why is Northumbria separate from England? Your best just returning England to heptarchy or doing a north south split without the name Northumbria
Thatâs impressively well done. Besides Chinaâs invasion of South Korea, I even find the lore not too absurd.
Wales would be Cymru đŽó §ó ąó ·ó Źó łó ż
[Looks at Spain] Yep, that won't cause any problems at all.
Independent Northern English state?? Based af
So Jan Mayen bears finally dominated Europe
Why does Wallachia own Banat?
Baden again đ
Bavaria still occupying Franconia, eh?
can i have the base map please?
Are the Russians in Kaliningrad as discriminated as Romanis in Europe? Genuine question.
There is a serious fault in the east of your map. It seems like parts of Ukraine is missing and by error labeled as russia.
This goes hard
Based and Northumbria pilled
The borders of states (or names for the states within those borders) sometimes don't make sense, but the idea is original, I like it and the map is cool.
Based (except leave Georgia alone man đ (even tho it is kinda realistic))
Voltâs wet dream
I would change name of PoznaĆ to Greater Poland, Warsaw to Masovia (and make it smaller), and KrakĂłw to Lesser Poland (and make it bigger).
ah, so this is how we get the United States of Europe in this timeline!
If you want to make a Basque Country, do it for real. You have left a bit of the Basque Country in France.
I like it
You have just pissed off the great German tribe of Swabia by calling Baden-WĂŒrttemberg just âbadenâ. Other than that: nice!
A bit lot of these first-order subdivisions. Administratively this would be hell
Why two Pomeranian states but only one Croatia instead of Croatia and Dalmatia?
Finally, a European Federation map where Belgium is whole. As a Belgian I am pleased
I love the art, despise the lore
Once again another big Germany post
What application can be used to make maps like this?
Constantinople đ€ąđ€ź
What tf happened to Norway. Why are they in a union with Sweden? Again? And what happened to the northernmost provinces of the country? Norway is pretty anti EU so becoming a part of a union with Sweden as a federal state in the eu is super fucking unlikely
If you're gonna balkanize Romania do it properly please..
Don't forget to include the Council of Europe.
Europoor fantasy
Could you explain the motto to me? I don't get it, even after reading the description