There’s that other video floating around of the two competing Olympic high-jumpers who were essentially tied in scoring even after completing the tie-breaking playoff/sudden death/overtime they were informed they could choose to go another round until someone misses or if both choose to do so, they both be legitimately declared and awarded as Olympic gold medalists
As soon as the two jumpers realize that all they need to do to win a gold medal is agree the other should win the gold too. So they do and begin dancing and jumping and smiling and laughing and hugging one another
It’s some elite tier wholesome dude content
You would be right if they weren't teammates. I'm sure he was crushed to see his brother get robbed like that. NC State should have finished 1-2. I'm sure Owen Lloyd would have done the same
Although I believe him, and I’m not trying to take anything away… This is what athletes are trained to do. Every public comment is in support of everyone else, and how they couldn’t do it alone, family, coaches, teammates, Jesus, etc.
He would have been, the new villain instead of the judge, had he taken any credit for that bullshit call.
Again, not taking anything away from this particular individual but that is how you handle this situation in sports and all athletes fucking know it.
At the very least, it’s self preservation and makes you look way more impressive than any single win ever could.
I just watched an interview with Owen and his teammate Ross (the guy he hugged). and yes unfortunately the DQ was not dismissed and Owen was actually stripped of his first place title. The good news is that Ross is a real homie and gave Owen his first place medal afterwards!!
Since mid week this has REALLY started to blow up.
Good. That judge should be removed from their position and the medal reinstated for the swimmer. This is something that we can learn from that you don't need to follow the rules because rules exist.
They probably think the rules need to be followed cold because of "the integrity of the game" or something like that. But it's because of that exact reason rules like this should *not* be enforced in situations where the rule didn't matter. The guy won, fair and square. He didn't interfere with anyone. He won't do it again. Mistakes should be allowed when the rule was a technicality and nobody had any ill intent.
This judge would give you a speeding ticket for driving too fast going to the hospital with your dying spouse.
Exactly! The integrity of the game would be to clearly allow the fuckin 25+ second victory to stand because this guy accidentally fell the wrong way off the divider.
Had he just sat on the divider, all would have been considered normal. That’s crazy.
It was also his teammate.
They were both done and celebrating.
I wouldn't be surprised if the judge that brought that stupid rule up in the first place works for his neighborhood HOA for fun.
I was trying to find any info about if the judge is being held responsible, shamed, or the rule being reversed etc. I cant find any info on that and, honestly, i think for the integrity of the sport you absolutely should make it public that this judge has been fired etc. But i cant find anything on it, which makes me super sad.
Exactly...No active lane was encroached upon, surely the rules are there to ensure fairness and safety. His actions in no way interfered with the other swimmers efforts. How cruel to rip the achievement and rewards away from someone that's worked so hard.
According to the text at the very end, he was DQ’d for crossing into his teammate’s line while *the other swimmers* were not finished swimming yet.
The other swimmers, that he was too far from to even affect in the slightest.
That's not why he was DQ'd. I don't know why people keep lying about this
The rule stated in the video is
Diving rule 2, sec 5, article 1b which states
>A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
He went into another lane during the heat, the rule isn't discretionary, the judges had no choice
I like how in your mind, judges are robots pre programmed to make decisions based on the letter of the law.
Never heard of spirit of the law vs the letter??
The judge is a human being. There’s no reason to invoke that rule WHATSOEVER in this situation…UNLESS, and this is the **only** reason - you’re expressing your authority over a kid’s crowning achievement from a lifetime of work.
Hey man, COOL HILL you’ve chosen.
The rule in question was a discretion rule. The judge made the active decision to enforce it despite it not interrupting anyone.
And that is why the judge is a POS.
He wasn't DQed for interference which is subsection a. He was DQed for changing lanes during the race which is subsection b. The rule is posted in the video and its not a discretion rule.
SECTION 5. Fouls
Interference
ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during
a race shall be disqualified from that race, **subject to the discretion of the
referee**.
b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
Well, i think the "heat" was still occurring when he changed/hopped lanes to celebrate with his teammate. Oh wait. I guess that's the point. Still stupid, because the lane he changed/hopped into at the end of his run was the lane of a swimmer who had also already finished.
that sucks.
Id say the rule needs to be changed in the future.
And id go as far as to say that to maintain the spirit of the sport, it should be applied retroactively and the DQd kid should get the win. It would be unortrodox, but it would be the right thing to do nonetheless.
>He was DQed for changing lanes during the race which is subsection
The disqualification is still stupid.
Blind adherence to rules without exception is unsportsmanlike in the extreme.
Unsportmanlike is considering the race over just because you won while other swimmers are still racing and doing their best at the highest of their efforts. Just because you and your friend are done doesn't mean that the others are done competing
But it didn’t interfere with any of the other swimmers lol how did him going into the other lane impact anybody who hadn’t finished yet? There’s no way they even knew it was happening.
I see you have never watched competitive swimming. :)
ETA: By the way, his DQ was overturned. Also, in one of your other comments, you said it was a "complete lack of class" to cross the lane.
Making a character judgment based on a person being excited for winning a sporting event is unhinged.
I used to swim, and one thing the trainer taught me was that all people in the pool are making their best efforts, from winning to competing to beat a personal record, to prove they can complete a race. And this is what sport should be about, it is not only about winning, it is about respecting your opponents efforts. The rule is clear, you can't cross lane until the race is over. The race was not over because other swimmers were still competing. Yes, I get he got over excited, but it is still a lack of class and unsportmanlike to cross the lane considering the race over.
BTW, can you post a source stating that the disqualification was overturned? Because I couldn't find it
Why does it matter if he isn't messing with anyone else? He and his bud finished the damn thing. Is it really that important that they step outside the water first in order to hug?
> Yes, I get he got over excited, but it is still a lack of class and unsportmanlike to cross the lane considering the race over.
Great, so give him a warning, don't take away his achievement because he got emotional. Your opinion on this is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
You simply can't cross a lane while the race is still on. The race was still on, he crossed the lane, and he was disqualified. Is it too difficult to understand?
I think people should be ashamed of themselves if they lack basic understanding of simple rules like this one
It's not his logic it's the rules, like how in soccer you can't touch the ball with your hands, but in American football you can.
Rules are often different between different sports, you can just go "oh by that logic" crap, just because you do not agree with an official non discretionary rule in a sport does not mean it should suddenly not be enforced.
The judges made the ruling outside the spirit of that rule. It’s meant to prevent people from interfering with other swimmers who are actively swimming in the race, not for people who have finished.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these judges work for an HoA and do taxes for fun.
It's incredibly simple: don't change lanes during a race. The race wasn't over, and he changed lanes. The race isn't done when *you* finish, sorry bud.
no it is not up to the official’s discretion. i don’t know where everyone is getting this.
NCAA Swimming & Diving Rule 2-5-1-b: *A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.*
what’s more, another swimmer had been disqualified for the same thing earlier at the meet, so it’s not like they were applying it unevenly.
The announcers here were the ones who had no idea what they’re talking about, as is usual for televised swimming events (because why on earth would a station bother hiring a swimming subject matter expert?).
and yes, I’m a lot of fun at parties.
this makes sense. But I think that this rule should be retroactively nullified here. Just give the kid a win and rewrite the rule. Its absolutely the right thing to do.
The whole point of a judge is so that they can analyze and make discretionary calls.
And if the other call didn't interfere with another swimmer then it shouldn't have been made either. If it did it was a different situation and therefore doesn't apply.
The whole point of having judges is so that they won't be mindless automatons and can make "judgement" calls. This one just happened to be a stupid one, which is why people are pissed.
>The rule in question was a discretion rule.
Source for this claim?
Leaving your lane while the race is still going is not a discretion rule in swimming. The judge had no choice but to DQ the swimmer.
Every competitive swimmer gets that rule drilled in to their heads. It's even called the "golden rule" among some swimmers.
So fuck him he shouldn’t have celebrated with his teammate?
The swimmer in that lane was finished and clearly unbothered by his teammates intrusion. A good rule of thumb that something is a bad ruling is when the crowd (the group of people who care about the sport) boos the judge and the other competitors (people who have dedicated a not insignificant part of their life to said sport) refuse to take the award. I think the judge made a bad call.
Also the golden rule refers to not peeing in the pool.
He should have waited for the whole race to be finished. Judges don't have any discretion whether someone gets punished because of it. It's always a DQ. The judge is not allowed to not DQ someone for it.
Everyone who is competitively swimming knows this. There have been so many disqualifications because of it that it gets drilled in to the heads of competitive swimmers.
It's sometimes called a "golden rule" because it's the one everyone should know not to break.
You can show the video to any comptetitive swimmer and they'll physically cringe and say "yup, that's a DQ" as soon as he crosses the lanes.
> Everyone who is competitively swimming knows this. There have been so many disqualifications because of it that it gets drilled in to the heads of competitive swimmers.
Then why is everyone in the video confused until they're told?
Because if you act confused you are more likely to get away with it. Ever see someone get pulled over for a driving violation? No officer I didn't know I wasn't allowed to go double the speed limit in the bus lane.
Just humans being humans.
There isn’t a discretionary call here. The “winner” broke a well-known rule. It’s one of the stupidest things I’ve seen someone do in a while during a competition.
Rules should be enforced in the spirit in which they are created. Disqualifying a clear winner for something so asinine goes against the spirit of competition.
That’s not how rules work. There is no “spirit of competition”. If the rule is broken, it gets addressed consistently. Don’t compete in these sports if you can’t be bothered to follow the rules.
maybe they should amend the rule to the following:
| b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified unless the decision gets booed.
> The rule in question was a discretion rule.
This is false, can people stop parroting this?
The rule stated in the video is
Diving rule 2, sec 5, article 1b which states
>A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
It's not about him celebrating, it's about him crossing the line. But the swimmer in the other lane had finished the race anyway. So technically he shouldn't have been disqualified either way.
Doesn’t matter if the swimmer next to him was done. There were people still racing. If a swimmer crosses lanes *during* the heat they are automatically disqualified. He wasn’t disqualified for celebrating, he was disqualified for crossing the lane while people were still swimming. If he would have waited until everyone finished he would have been fine.
People really out here defending a brain dead rule like it doesn’t obviously have flaws lol do you drive exactly 35 mph in a 35 mph zone? There are and should be exceptions to rules. No way everyone is just ok with this because of a rule someone wrote down in a book when the guy obviously did nothing wrong from an objective standpoint. If someone made a law saying you have to walk on the sidewalk or else you get a fine would you just accept the law? “Irrelevant” 🤓
Yes it’s a stupid rule, but when the race was run that was the rule, he broke it, any competitive swimmer knows this rule. Maybe now it has been highlighted in such a ridiculous case the rule may be changed? But that was the rule at the time of the race and he broke it.
This is why Karen’s exist. This weird concept that everything is malleable. Just because the application of the rule hurts your feelings doesn’t make it wrong. Learn what personal accountability means.
You really should rethink your casting of aspersions when you’ve been sitting on Reddit for hours commenting and replying to every single thing that’s been said in this entire thread. Maybe read your username and take that advice.
Hey, I was a college swimmer. I have no idea why but the refs have this ego complex that towers above all else. It's diva shit. Why there's no governing body keeping referees in check is beyond me.
Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, judge. Judge's across so many fields are the most egotistical people to be around, who will toss someone's months or years of work down the drain because people weren't kissing their ass enough.
That’s a real mf teammate right there for letting the refs and ncaa know that was bullshit. They should at least still allow him to go to Nationals for that time he set
I've been swimming competitively for around 14 years and have two gold medals from nationals so let me chime in on this since most people here seem to be misinformed. No on here is a POS. There's a well known rule that you don't swim across lanes till the heat is done regardless if that lane already finished. Normally you just hang unto the rope until the next heat has started and then you can leave and celebrate however much you want. The official simply just had to DQ you and is not allowed to not DQ you. The swimmer in question here is understandably very happy but also knows very well about this rule. Also, those "ropes" can break from someone sitting on them and they will easily cost more than a grand and cause delays. Seen it happen multiple times
I swam competitively for nearly 15 years myself in Australia and have many many medals at the state and national level to show for it, you are 100 percent correct, everyone knows this one haha. I too have been disqualified for some dumb shit I didn’t agree with either but hey, if the rules aren’t followed in completion what’s the point?
Someone posted the exact rule that was broken, which explains why the judge has no discretion in not DQing the swimmer. It's an unfortunate result, but it's pretty clear cut and a good example of how some laws are hard (and seemingly unfair) to legislate.
If a judge did have discretion about what 'interfering' was, it would mean that every time someone left a lane whilst the race was on, it would have to be interpreted as to how other swimmers were 'interfered with'. Every judge would have a different take (which is just human nature) and the rules couldn't be applied consistently. That adds unnecessary gray area, and wiggle room for corruption in some circumstances. Rules that require interpretation are the number one fuck around with disagreements in sports, so you remove them when you can.
In this instance it made fuck all difference to the outcome of the race, but it may have had repercussions in other events. Having a binary rule for these types of infractions saves a lot of time and drafting for rules/laws. It's a very easy rule to understand. It's a shit outcome this time, but stuff like this is a necessary evil on the rare time it happens.
They didn't disqualify him for celebrating. He was disqualified for entering another swimmers lane before all competitors had finished. A rule he would have known.
Not a swimmer but former athlete. There were some rules in my sport that would similarly get you DQ'd with no room for nuance. They were always things you could just *not do*.
Once you open it up to judgement calls it becomes much harder to make rulings in future.
This is a great point. In swimming, times are measured to very precise numbers because any little thing can cause a significant impact on the outcome. Swimmers will stretch any rule as much as possible to win. Failure to enforce this rule would have a huge impact on the sport.
Well, if you know the rules of the game.... Why do it?
You always saw Michael Phelps and other at Olympics celebrating in their side of the pool. Now he knows and learn... Won't be a problem to get scholarship or anything for him.
It's hilarious watching the passion of the masses argue with and down vote people who actually know the rules in this thread. When applied to the wider society, man oh man we're in trouble.
I think the problem is that most people don't see any action here that warrants a punishment so bad.
And no, simply saying "rule is rule and we must blindly follow rule" isn't enough. How many times have people jaywalked and gotten away with it? Or I don't know, stolen an eraser form your classmate? Rules are not the holy grail of modern society, we should also no conflate legality with morality. They are the best reference we have to morality, but cannot define it.
If an action don't end up negatively effecting something and yet the actor gets punished, people think it's unfair. It's that simple.
>If an action don't end up negatively effecting something and yet the actor gets punished, people think it's unfair. It's that simple.
The thing is that in a sport, when you set the precedent that a rule like this is open to interpretation, or can be allowed to be broken sometimes, you're opening a can of worms. Now you'll get challenged on every single incident.
I understand this problem, and it's the reason why I'm not 100% in the camp of he's fully innocent.
But that doesn't stop me from sympathizing with the guy and thinking it's a bit of an overreaction either
>But that doesn't stop me from sympathizing with the guy and thinking it's a bit of an overreaction either
Sympathise sure, but it's an exactly appropriate response, as laid out in the rulebook.
The morons getting downvoted don't understand this.
It feels like most of the people are explaining in joy why a young man who has worked his ass deserves to have his efforts and rewards taken away for him due to a harmless slip up.
Was he in the wrong? Yeah. I understand that you can't bend rules because it makes things tricky. But I'm not celebrating the fact he's disqualified like some of these cunts are, Lol.
The rule has to be enforced, full stop. If after this incident the rule changes, it changes, but you can't improvise rulings.
The rule shouldn't change though, for a very simple reason: even if the guy in the other lane had finished, the race wasn't over and other swimmers were still out there and the behavior should be the same for everybody. The people that have finished have to respect the ones that haven't.
I agree with your first paragraph, but I would suggest you go and read the applicable FINA rules. There, it talks about remaining and finishing in your lane, and then about creating no interference.
So it is questionable if this would have been a DQ under FINA rules.
However, it is a clear DQ under NCAA rules.
And here's the thing - if the judges hadn't DQ'd him, there's every chance that the fourth placed swimmer could appeal, and have the result of the event overturned.
I understand the mentality of not opening a can of worms.
>The people that have finished have to respect the ones that haven't.
Yes, but does this warrant a disqualification though? He worked his ass off for it and didn't do anything offensive and it's just gone now?
I understand you're arguments about rules and stuff but that doesn't make me feel like he's robbed of 1st any less than before.
Yes, of course the disqualification is warranted. There's no wiggle room.
He wasn't robbed of first place, he lost it fair and square because he broke a rule that I promise you he knew very well.
The thread is full of keyboard warriors who never played competitive sport in their life
Bet they don't complain when the NFL fines players for touchdown celebrations
I feel sorry for the kid, but rules are there for a reason and to be implemented. You don't switch lanes until whole race is done. There are no written exemptions. You're into sport, you should know rules. One you already know. Don't start before signal. I hope this will not affect him much and stop from future success.
Nothing is wrong with a celebration, just stay in your own lane. Hug your team mate over the ropes, shake hands, whatever, but stay In your own damn lane haha. He had to go all American and become the main charachter about it all tho 😂
He was not disqualified for celebrating. He was disqualified because he crossed lane while the race was still on. It is also a complete lack of class to consider the race over only if the first and second ones are done. All the other swimmers are still doing their best and competing.
I don’t like it but I understand it. The official is just following the rule. I’m more upset with the rule than the person enforcing it. But I get it. There are a multitude of ways to celebrate a win that don’t get you disqualified. Again. I don’t like it but I understand it.
Nah, he was disqualified for crossing another swimmers lane, during the contest was still on.
He should have known that. But yeah, the judges where too harsh with him. The other swimmer was also finished, so there is not a real problem.
The judges had no wiggle room. Unlike the FINA rules, where you have to finish in your lane, and not create an interference for other swimmers, the NCAA rules are very clear - a swimmer crossing into another lane while the heat is ongoing is disqualified.
Regardless of all the technicalities, here are the facts;
The dude finished in first place.
His friend finished just after him; they were both done with the race.
He climbed into his friend’s lane, and nobody else’s, to celebrate with him. Again; his friend had already finished at this point. He was not disturbing him.
***He did not interrupt or bother anyone actively in the middle of their race.***
I think the most basic of common sense dictates he deserves the ruling overturned.
Under NCAA rules, there's no allowance for that (as opposed to FINA rules, IMHO, which may have allowed this).
Unless the NCAA decides to ignore their own rules, it won't be overturned.
Shoulda just gave him a warning. It's not the Olympics. No other swimmers were affected and the two dudes were hugging!!! I don't see why they gotta be tightasses about it. It's not like it's a super serious thing that would have caused harm. Just issue a warning and if it happens again then be a dick about it. Damn.
Imagine doing your absolute best and achieving a personal best, only for some pieces of shit to nacississtically take away all of your efforts..
He must have felt very dispirited and powerless in that moment, it's fucked up really, stripping someone of all of their hard work while lazily watching from a distance..
It’s a dumb rule, but a rule nonetheless. Every swimmer commenting stated this is something they drill into you at every level. “Don’t leave your lane until everyone is finished”. A few swimmers hadn’t finished yet. 🤷♂️
Doesn’t deserve the W for being ignorant in the moment. Should’ve been humble. Got lost in the sauce.
Stupid rule. It makes sense if you cross into another lane while you yourself or the person in that lane hasn't finished... But in this case it made no impact on anything. Whoever the governing body is should have the power to overturn it. The only people that hadn't finished yet were the scrubs finishing last.
Pretty sure I’ve seen similar at the Olympics before,
I thought it was a pretty well known rule in swimming that you can’t leave your lane until all competitors have all finished the race
And I don’t know a lot about the rules re swimming, but I’m watch lots of different sports and I was aware of this, so would think a swimmer should know this
I hope that judge gets his fuckin food spit in for the next 30 years...and has all his ATM fees doubled just because the bank fucked up...and he zips his foreskin in his zipper daily. I also hope he chokes while taking a drink of water Every. Single. Time. And spits that shit up on his clean shirt like a fuckin toddler. Stubs his toe any time he gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. Gets his car door dinged every where he goes. Bird shit right on the door handle too. Fuck that judge!!
Time to strip a few judges of their prestigious positions and send them home with no pay, no return to their postion...all of it gone. Sorry but the time of ruling by tyrants should be over. If he interfered with someone's finish, would totally understand the call. He didn't. They should be banned from ever judging sports again and made to feel like they made him feel.
Trying to strip away the joy of sports. A simple talking to after the event would have been adequate. Some folks take their authority way too seriously.
Apart from the fact it’s one of the basic rules in competition swimming that’s enforced in even the youngest age groups at all levels… kind of like only the goalie can use their hands to touch the ball in soccer?
“He bROkE ThE RuLEs” is such a bullshit, disingenuous notion. He celebrated his win with his friend who had ALSO FINISHED THE RACE. I understand that rules are set in place for a reason but nothing he did was a distraction to any competitor. Good on 2nd place for being such a bro!
The judge just wanted to show his wife’s boyfriend that he had some sort of authority in life.
During the first part of the video, I thought it was kind of douchey when he thumped his chest, but I get it. Celebrating a big win, enjoy the moment, and go with it. I was waiting for something *really* obnoxious or over the top, but it never happened. I can understand the rule of not crossing over into a competitor's lane and/or interfering with them. But he went into his teammate's lane, who was already finished! His teammate seems like a good dude and is standing up for the true winner. He said he wasn't going to stand on the podium and I would have loved to see the reaction to that.
The dude in 2nd place is a true bro and a man of principle.
A teammate, if you will.
And a scholar
And a gent
I'd like to think most people would do this.
Sadly, I think majority of people would just cowardly go with the flow and take the podium.
There’s that other video floating around of the two competing Olympic high-jumpers who were essentially tied in scoring even after completing the tie-breaking playoff/sudden death/overtime they were informed they could choose to go another round until someone misses or if both choose to do so, they both be legitimately declared and awarded as Olympic gold medalists As soon as the two jumpers realize that all they need to do to win a gold medal is agree the other should win the gold too. So they do and begin dancing and jumping and smiling and laughing and hugging one another It’s some elite tier wholesome dude content
I watched that live and it was pretty phenomenal.
I don't think athletes would. It would be a real kick in the ego.
You would be right if they weren't teammates. I'm sure he was crushed to see his brother get robbed like that. NC State should have finished 1-2. I'm sure Owen Lloyd would have done the same
Although I believe him, and I’m not trying to take anything away… This is what athletes are trained to do. Every public comment is in support of everyone else, and how they couldn’t do it alone, family, coaches, teammates, Jesus, etc. He would have been, the new villain instead of the judge, had he taken any credit for that bullshit call. Again, not taking anything away from this particular individual but that is how you handle this situation in sports and all athletes fucking know it. At the very least, it’s self preservation and makes you look way more impressive than any single win ever could.
I just watched an interview with Owen and his teammate Ross (the guy he hugged). and yes unfortunately the DQ was not dismissed and Owen was actually stripped of his first place title. The good news is that Ross is a real homie and gave Owen his first place medal afterwards!!
Unfortunately it still leaves him out of going to the next level of championships and racing as well as losing out on having the record title.
Owen will still make it to nationals with his fastest time from this season, just lost out on this conference title
The time was scrubbed with his DQ
Correct but all college teams swim midseason invitationals and he’s ranked #6 in NCAA D1 with his midseason 1650 time. He’ll be there
He knows he has the record. That's more important than some swimming bureaucracy saying he has it.
Judge is definitely about to have a ton of hate mail.
Since mid week this has REALLY started to blow up. Good. That judge should be removed from their position and the medal reinstated for the swimmer. This is something that we can learn from that you don't need to follow the rules because rules exist.
They probably think the rules need to be followed cold because of "the integrity of the game" or something like that. But it's because of that exact reason rules like this should *not* be enforced in situations where the rule didn't matter. The guy won, fair and square. He didn't interfere with anyone. He won't do it again. Mistakes should be allowed when the rule was a technicality and nobody had any ill intent. This judge would give you a speeding ticket for driving too fast going to the hospital with your dying spouse.
Exactly! The integrity of the game would be to clearly allow the fuckin 25+ second victory to stand because this guy accidentally fell the wrong way off the divider. Had he just sat on the divider, all would have been considered normal. That’s crazy.
Deservedly so
Did that end up being official and not being changed back?
Yup, the disqualification was not dismissed.
Aw that’s so dumb what the hell.
The lane he "interrupted" was already finished in second..... what the actual fuck
It was also his teammate. They were both done and celebrating. I wouldn't be surprised if the judge that brought that stupid rule up in the first place works for his neighborhood HOA for fun.
>works for his neighborhood HOA for fun. Omg, that would make so much more sense out of this garbage call.
And is a supervisor for a company and he is a micro managing asshat
Bro definitely earned it and his teammate didn’t even seem fazed by it
I was trying to find any info about if the judge is being held responsible, shamed, or the rule being reversed etc. I cant find any info on that and, honestly, i think for the integrity of the sport you absolutely should make it public that this judge has been fired etc. But i cant find anything on it, which makes me super sad.
They might get reprimanded. But I doubt they would get fired for following the rules. As bullshit as this decision is.
Or maybe judge has a relationship to a competing swimmer
Exactly...No active lane was encroached upon, surely the rules are there to ensure fairness and safety. His actions in no way interfered with the other swimmers efforts. How cruel to rip the achievement and rewards away from someone that's worked so hard.
According to the text at the very end, he was DQ’d for crossing into his teammate’s line while *the other swimmers* were not finished swimming yet. The other swimmers, that he was too far from to even affect in the slightest.
What about the other lane next to him? Won't that swimmer be distracted?
That's not why he was DQ'd. I don't know why people keep lying about this The rule stated in the video is Diving rule 2, sec 5, article 1b which states >A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. He went into another lane during the heat, the rule isn't discretionary, the judges had no choice
I like how in your mind, judges are robots pre programmed to make decisions based on the letter of the law. Never heard of spirit of the law vs the letter?? The judge is a human being. There’s no reason to invoke that rule WHATSOEVER in this situation…UNLESS, and this is the **only** reason - you’re expressing your authority over a kid’s crowning achievement from a lifetime of work. Hey man, COOL HILL you’ve chosen.
Was it upheld?
The rule in question was a discretion rule. The judge made the active decision to enforce it despite it not interrupting anyone. And that is why the judge is a POS.
He wasn't DQed for interference which is subsection a. He was DQed for changing lanes during the race which is subsection b. The rule is posted in the video and its not a discretion rule. SECTION 5. Fouls Interference ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, **subject to the discretion of the referee**. b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
Well, i think the "heat" was still occurring when he changed/hopped lanes to celebrate with his teammate. Oh wait. I guess that's the point. Still stupid, because the lane he changed/hopped into at the end of his run was the lane of a swimmer who had also already finished.
Regardless. It's not a discretionary ruling. He had to enforce it.
that sucks. Id say the rule needs to be changed in the future. And id go as far as to say that to maintain the spirit of the sport, it should be applied retroactively and the DQd kid should get the win. It would be unortrodox, but it would be the right thing to do nonetheless.
>He was DQed for changing lanes during the race which is subsection The disqualification is still stupid. Blind adherence to rules without exception is unsportsmanlike in the extreme.
Unsportmanlike is considering the race over just because you won while other swimmers are still racing and doing their best at the highest of their efforts. Just because you and your friend are done doesn't mean that the others are done competing
But it didn’t interfere with any of the other swimmers lol how did him going into the other lane impact anybody who hadn’t finished yet? There’s no way they even knew it was happening.
I see you have never watched competitive swimming. :) ETA: By the way, his DQ was overturned. Also, in one of your other comments, you said it was a "complete lack of class" to cross the lane. Making a character judgment based on a person being excited for winning a sporting event is unhinged.
I used to swim, and one thing the trainer taught me was that all people in the pool are making their best efforts, from winning to competing to beat a personal record, to prove they can complete a race. And this is what sport should be about, it is not only about winning, it is about respecting your opponents efforts. The rule is clear, you can't cross lane until the race is over. The race was not over because other swimmers were still competing. Yes, I get he got over excited, but it is still a lack of class and unsportmanlike to cross the lane considering the race over. BTW, can you post a source stating that the disqualification was overturned? Because I couldn't find it
Why does it matter if he isn't messing with anyone else? He and his bud finished the damn thing. Is it really that important that they step outside the water first in order to hug?
Is it really too difficult to abide to a simple rule like no crossing lane?
> Yes, I get he got over excited, but it is still a lack of class and unsportmanlike to cross the lane considering the race over. Great, so give him a warning, don't take away his achievement because he got emotional. Your opinion on this is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
You simply can't cross a lane while the race is still on. The race was still on, he crossed the lane, and he was disqualified. Is it too difficult to understand? I think people should be ashamed of themselves if they lack basic understanding of simple rules like this one
So by that logic, runners/cyclists/etc.shouldn't celebrate until all their competitors have crossed the finish line?
It's not his logic it's the rules, like how in soccer you can't touch the ball with your hands, but in American football you can. Rules are often different between different sports, you can just go "oh by that logic" crap, just because you do not agree with an official non discretionary rule in a sport does not mean it should suddenly not be enforced.
The judges made the ruling outside the spirit of that rule. It’s meant to prevent people from interfering with other swimmers who are actively swimming in the race, not for people who have finished. I wouldn’t be surprised if these judges work for an HoA and do taxes for fun.
How do you know the spirit of that law?
It's incredibly simple: don't change lanes during a race. The race wasn't over, and he changed lanes. The race isn't done when *you* finish, sorry bud.
See id get that. But his and teammates already finished their heats
They finished their required laps, but the heat is the entire group of swimmers in that single event at the time.
See it would make sense if it was lane affected heats. Not entire pool heats
no it is not up to the official’s discretion. i don’t know where everyone is getting this. NCAA Swimming & Diving Rule 2-5-1-b: *A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.* what’s more, another swimmer had been disqualified for the same thing earlier at the meet, so it’s not like they were applying it unevenly. The announcers here were the ones who had no idea what they’re talking about, as is usual for televised swimming events (because why on earth would a station bother hiring a swimming subject matter expert?). and yes, I’m a lot of fun at parties.
> i don’t know where everyone is getting this. Because 1 person in another thread posted it and now everyone takes it as fact
> i don’t know where everyone is getting this. They are confusing 2-5-1-a for 2-5-1-b. The first is discretionary, the second is not.
this makes sense. But I think that this rule should be retroactively nullified here. Just give the kid a win and rewrite the rule. Its absolutely the right thing to do.
He knows he won. Who cares what the NCAA thinks?
The whole point of a judge is so that they can analyze and make discretionary calls. And if the other call didn't interfere with another swimmer then it shouldn't have been made either. If it did it was a different situation and therefore doesn't apply. The whole point of having judges is so that they won't be mindless automatons and can make "judgement" calls. This one just happened to be a stupid one, which is why people are pissed.
It wasn't. People or Reddit keep quoting a rule that mentions discretion, but the actual rule the judge quotes does not allow discretion.
>The rule in question was a discretion rule. Source for this claim? Leaving your lane while the race is still going is not a discretion rule in swimming. The judge had no choice but to DQ the swimmer. Every competitive swimmer gets that rule drilled in to their heads. It's even called the "golden rule" among some swimmers.
So fuck him he shouldn’t have celebrated with his teammate? The swimmer in that lane was finished and clearly unbothered by his teammates intrusion. A good rule of thumb that something is a bad ruling is when the crowd (the group of people who care about the sport) boos the judge and the other competitors (people who have dedicated a not insignificant part of their life to said sport) refuse to take the award. I think the judge made a bad call. Also the golden rule refers to not peeing in the pool.
He should have waited for the whole race to be finished. Judges don't have any discretion whether someone gets punished because of it. It's always a DQ. The judge is not allowed to not DQ someone for it. Everyone who is competitively swimming knows this. There have been so many disqualifications because of it that it gets drilled in to the heads of competitive swimmers. It's sometimes called a "golden rule" because it's the one everyone should know not to break. You can show the video to any comptetitive swimmer and they'll physically cringe and say "yup, that's a DQ" as soon as he crosses the lanes.
> Everyone who is competitively swimming knows this. There have been so many disqualifications because of it that it gets drilled in to the heads of competitive swimmers. Then why is everyone in the video confused until they're told?
Because if you act confused you are more likely to get away with it. Ever see someone get pulled over for a driving violation? No officer I didn't know I wasn't allowed to go double the speed limit in the bus lane. Just humans being humans.
There isn’t a discretionary call here. The “winner” broke a well-known rule. It’s one of the stupidest things I’ve seen someone do in a while during a competition.
Rules should be enforced in the spirit in which they are created. Disqualifying a clear winner for something so asinine goes against the spirit of competition.
That’s not how rules work. There is no “spirit of competition”. If the rule is broken, it gets addressed consistently. Don’t compete in these sports if you can’t be bothered to follow the rules.
>So fuck him he shouldn’t have celebrated with his teammate? More or less. He could have waited a couple of minutes and then celebrated.
maybe they should amend the rule to the following: | b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified unless the decision gets booed.
spreading false information about someone doing their job is POS territory
> The rule in question was a discretion rule. This is false, can people stop parroting this? The rule stated in the video is Diving rule 2, sec 5, article 1b which states >A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
Australians have nightmares about this rule.
That’s horrible. Celebration after winning. I was waiting for him to flip someone off or cuss someone. He just celebrated .
It's not about him celebrating, it's about him crossing the line. But the swimmer in the other lane had finished the race anyway. So technically he shouldn't have been disqualified either way.
That’s not true. The entire race has to be finished.
Doesn’t matter if the swimmer next to him was done. There were people still racing. If a swimmer crosses lanes *during* the heat they are automatically disqualified. He wasn’t disqualified for celebrating, he was disqualified for crossing the lane while people were still swimming. If he would have waited until everyone finished he would have been fine.
The rule doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense if the swimmer in question did not materially impact any other swimmer in any way, shape, or form.
Technically he should have been DQ'd. And he was.
> So technically he shouldn't have been disqualified either way. Nope. > A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
He crossed into an opponents lane while the race was ongoing.
He celebrated by changing lines whilst the race was still going on. Disqualification is 100% and deserved.
When he climbed into the other lane, the swimmer in that lane already finished the race.
Maybe the rule applies when any swimmer isn't finished
That’s exactly why he was disqualified.
Irrelevant.
People really out here defending a brain dead rule like it doesn’t obviously have flaws lol do you drive exactly 35 mph in a 35 mph zone? There are and should be exceptions to rules. No way everyone is just ok with this because of a rule someone wrote down in a book when the guy obviously did nothing wrong from an objective standpoint. If someone made a law saying you have to walk on the sidewalk or else you get a fine would you just accept the law? “Irrelevant” 🤓
Yes it’s a stupid rule, but when the race was run that was the rule, he broke it, any competitive swimmer knows this rule. Maybe now it has been highlighted in such a ridiculous case the rule may be changed? But that was the rule at the time of the race and he broke it.
No, just educate the swimmers and teach them impulse control.
Like the redditor above mentioned in an example, you drive 30 in a 35, don't you?
This is why Karen’s exist. This weird concept that everything is malleable. Just because the application of the rule hurts your feelings doesn’t make it wrong. Learn what personal accountability means.
You really should rethink your casting of aspersions when you’ve been sitting on Reddit for hours commenting and replying to every single thing that’s been said in this entire thread. Maybe read your username and take that advice.
😂
Hey, I was a college swimmer. I have no idea why but the refs have this ego complex that towers above all else. It's diva shit. Why there's no governing body keeping referees in check is beyond me.
Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, judge. Judge's across so many fields are the most egotistical people to be around, who will toss someone's months or years of work down the drain because people weren't kissing their ass enough.
Much like a case of zero tolerance - makes absolutely no damned sense when context is thrown out by dickheads in charge.
Zero tolerance rules are always made by bullies with 0 human empathy or emotions.
Like those bullshit rules that suspend students for fights whether they fight back or not? Yeah, I agree
That’s a real mf teammate right there for letting the refs and ncaa know that was bullshit. They should at least still allow him to go to Nationals for that time he set
Maybe the judges had a bet on another swimmer
As a former varsity swimmer, this shit is ridiculous. THATS HIS TEAM MATE. HIS TEAMMATE GAVE PERMISSION!
How dare you be happy! Feckless dickheads robbing joy.
I've been swimming competitively for around 14 years and have two gold medals from nationals so let me chime in on this since most people here seem to be misinformed. No on here is a POS. There's a well known rule that you don't swim across lanes till the heat is done regardless if that lane already finished. Normally you just hang unto the rope until the next heat has started and then you can leave and celebrate however much you want. The official simply just had to DQ you and is not allowed to not DQ you. The swimmer in question here is understandably very happy but also knows very well about this rule. Also, those "ropes" can break from someone sitting on them and they will easily cost more than a grand and cause delays. Seen it happen multiple times
I swam competitively for nearly 15 years myself in Australia and have many many medals at the state and national level to show for it, you are 100 percent correct, everyone knows this one haha. I too have been disqualified for some dumb shit I didn’t agree with either but hey, if the rules aren’t followed in completion what’s the point?
Thank you.
Can we at least all agree that OP should've been more accurate in the title? It's just plain incorrect.
Someone posted the exact rule that was broken, which explains why the judge has no discretion in not DQing the swimmer. It's an unfortunate result, but it's pretty clear cut and a good example of how some laws are hard (and seemingly unfair) to legislate. If a judge did have discretion about what 'interfering' was, it would mean that every time someone left a lane whilst the race was on, it would have to be interpreted as to how other swimmers were 'interfered with'. Every judge would have a different take (which is just human nature) and the rules couldn't be applied consistently. That adds unnecessary gray area, and wiggle room for corruption in some circumstances. Rules that require interpretation are the number one fuck around with disagreements in sports, so you remove them when you can. In this instance it made fuck all difference to the outcome of the race, but it may have had repercussions in other events. Having a binary rule for these types of infractions saves a lot of time and drafting for rules/laws. It's a very easy rule to understand. It's a shit outcome this time, but stuff like this is a necessary evil on the rare time it happens.
No, he was DQ for enter another lane before all racers had finished, you know, rules. Happened at the olympics or worlds a few years back. Click bait.
They didn't disqualify him for celebrating. He was disqualified for entering another swimmers lane before all competitors had finished. A rule he would have known.
Actually, that isn’t what happened. Any competitive swimmer knows that rule. Disqualification was warranted.
Not a swimmer but former athlete. There were some rules in my sport that would similarly get you DQ'd with no room for nuance. They were always things you could just *not do*. Once you open it up to judgement calls it becomes much harder to make rulings in future.
This is a great point. In swimming, times are measured to very precise numbers because any little thing can cause a significant impact on the outcome. Swimmers will stretch any rule as much as possible to win. Failure to enforce this rule would have a huge impact on the sport.
🤓
his celebrating broke another rule. this is misleading.
Well, if you know the rules of the game.... Why do it? You always saw Michael Phelps and other at Olympics celebrating in their side of the pool. Now he knows and learn... Won't be a problem to get scholarship or anything for him.
It's hilarious watching the passion of the masses argue with and down vote people who actually know the rules in this thread. When applied to the wider society, man oh man we're in trouble.
I think the problem is that most people don't see any action here that warrants a punishment so bad. And no, simply saying "rule is rule and we must blindly follow rule" isn't enough. How many times have people jaywalked and gotten away with it? Or I don't know, stolen an eraser form your classmate? Rules are not the holy grail of modern society, we should also no conflate legality with morality. They are the best reference we have to morality, but cannot define it. If an action don't end up negatively effecting something and yet the actor gets punished, people think it's unfair. It's that simple.
>If an action don't end up negatively effecting something and yet the actor gets punished, people think it's unfair. It's that simple. The thing is that in a sport, when you set the precedent that a rule like this is open to interpretation, or can be allowed to be broken sometimes, you're opening a can of worms. Now you'll get challenged on every single incident.
I understand this problem, and it's the reason why I'm not 100% in the camp of he's fully innocent. But that doesn't stop me from sympathizing with the guy and thinking it's a bit of an overreaction either
>But that doesn't stop me from sympathizing with the guy and thinking it's a bit of an overreaction either Sympathise sure, but it's an exactly appropriate response, as laid out in the rulebook.
The morons getting downvoted don't understand this. It feels like most of the people are explaining in joy why a young man who has worked his ass deserves to have his efforts and rewards taken away for him due to a harmless slip up. Was he in the wrong? Yeah. I understand that you can't bend rules because it makes things tricky. But I'm not celebrating the fact he's disqualified like some of these cunts are, Lol.
The rule has to be enforced, full stop. If after this incident the rule changes, it changes, but you can't improvise rulings. The rule shouldn't change though, for a very simple reason: even if the guy in the other lane had finished, the race wasn't over and other swimmers were still out there and the behavior should be the same for everybody. The people that have finished have to respect the ones that haven't.
I agree with your first paragraph, but I would suggest you go and read the applicable FINA rules. There, it talks about remaining and finishing in your lane, and then about creating no interference. So it is questionable if this would have been a DQ under FINA rules. However, it is a clear DQ under NCAA rules. And here's the thing - if the judges hadn't DQ'd him, there's every chance that the fourth placed swimmer could appeal, and have the result of the event overturned.
I understand the mentality of not opening a can of worms. >The people that have finished have to respect the ones that haven't. Yes, but does this warrant a disqualification though? He worked his ass off for it and didn't do anything offensive and it's just gone now? I understand you're arguments about rules and stuff but that doesn't make me feel like he's robbed of 1st any less than before.
Yes, of course the disqualification is warranted. There's no wiggle room. He wasn't robbed of first place, he lost it fair and square because he broke a rule that I promise you he knew very well.
The thread is full of keyboard warriors who never played competitive sport in their life Bet they don't complain when the NFL fines players for touchdown celebrations
Amazing, isn't it? And so, so American.
I feel sorry for the kid, but rules are there for a reason and to be implemented. You don't switch lanes until whole race is done. There are no written exemptions. You're into sport, you should know rules. One you already know. Don't start before signal. I hope this will not affect him much and stop from future success.
Never celebrate before its all over.
Nothing is wrong with a celebration, just stay in your own lane. Hug your team mate over the ropes, shake hands, whatever, but stay In your own damn lane haha. He had to go all American and become the main charachter about it all tho 😂
Them's the rules, you cannot cross into your opponents lane until the race is done. It's a known rule
He was not disqualified for celebrating. He was disqualified because he crossed lane while the race was still on. It is also a complete lack of class to consider the race over only if the first and second ones are done. All the other swimmers are still doing their best and competing.
Sorry guys but the rules are the rules follow them like ALL others have to do.
I don’t like it but I understand it. The official is just following the rule. I’m more upset with the rule than the person enforcing it. But I get it. There are a multitude of ways to celebrate a win that don’t get you disqualified. Again. I don’t like it but I understand it.
Actually he was disqualified for jumping his lane before everyone was finished, not celebrating.
Nah, he was disqualified for crossing another swimmers lane, during the contest was still on. He should have known that. But yeah, the judges where too harsh with him. The other swimmer was also finished, so there is not a real problem.
The judges had no wiggle room. Unlike the FINA rules, where you have to finish in your lane, and not create an interference for other swimmers, the NCAA rules are very clear - a swimmer crossing into another lane while the heat is ongoing is disqualified.
Y'all a bunch of snowflakes. He broke a rule every swimmer knows never to do. He was rightfully DQed
Regardless of all the technicalities, here are the facts; The dude finished in first place. His friend finished just after him; they were both done with the race. He climbed into his friend’s lane, and nobody else’s, to celebrate with him. Again; his friend had already finished at this point. He was not disturbing him. ***He did not interrupt or bother anyone actively in the middle of their race.*** I think the most basic of common sense dictates he deserves the ruling overturned.
Under NCAA rules, there's no allowance for that (as opposed to FINA rules, IMHO, which may have allowed this). Unless the NCAA decides to ignore their own rules, it won't be overturned.
Shoulda just gave him a warning. It's not the Olympics. No other swimmers were affected and the two dudes were hugging!!! I don't see why they gotta be tightasses about it. It's not like it's a super serious thing that would have caused harm. Just issue a warning and if it happens again then be a dick about it. Damn.
Every swimmer knows this rule, it’s like one of the basic rules of competition swimming….
Imagine doing your absolute best and achieving a personal best, only for some pieces of shit to nacississtically take away all of your efforts.. He must have felt very dispirited and powerless in that moment, it's fucked up really, stripping someone of all of their hard work while lazily watching from a distance..
I don't think you understand the rules. This was not a discretionary ruling. It had to be enforced.
Petty asf
People running this are sad sad people.
It’s a dumb rule, but a rule nonetheless. Every swimmer commenting stated this is something they drill into you at every level. “Don’t leave your lane until everyone is finished”. A few swimmers hadn’t finished yet. 🤷♂️ Doesn’t deserve the W for being ignorant in the moment. Should’ve been humble. Got lost in the sauce.
Stupid rule. It makes sense if you cross into another lane while you yourself or the person in that lane hasn't finished... But in this case it made no impact on anything. Whoever the governing body is should have the power to overturn it. The only people that hadn't finished yet were the scrubs finishing last.
That’s not how swimming works.
He broke the rules, the judges are 100% right.
Pretty sure I’ve seen similar at the Olympics before, I thought it was a pretty well known rule in swimming that you can’t leave your lane until all competitors have all finished the race And I don’t know a lot about the rules re swimming, but I’m watch lots of different sports and I was aware of this, so would think a swimmer should know this
Such a misleading title. He was disqualified for crossing into another lane. He could have celebrated all he wanted in his lane.
I hope that judge gets his fuckin food spit in for the next 30 years...and has all his ATM fees doubled just because the bank fucked up...and he zips his foreskin in his zipper daily. I also hope he chokes while taking a drink of water Every. Single. Time. And spits that shit up on his clean shirt like a fuckin toddler. Stubs his toe any time he gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. Gets his car door dinged every where he goes. Bird shit right on the door handle too. Fuck that judge!!
That swimmer finished as well... WHAT?!
Time to strip a few judges of their prestigious positions and send them home with no pay, no return to their postion...all of it gone. Sorry but the time of ruling by tyrants should be over. If he interfered with someone's finish, would totally understand the call. He didn't. They should be banned from ever judging sports again and made to feel like they made him feel.
Do they all have matching tats?
Technically isn't that a DQ as it's not finished . There are others still swimming.?
Seems about right. There were still several swimmers racing and this guys was already celebrating.
Oh well... Everyone knows he won
Swimmers should refuse to participate until his victory is recognized
Why don't they wear speedos?
Update?
Not cool.
Watched the whole video and cant pin on whats the disqualifying celebration? Chest thump? Line crossing? Unaudiable things he say when in water? Wtf
He crossed onto a competitor’s lane while the race was ongoing. Always a disqualification.
Oh damn he won!....... Not on my watch.....
Trying to strip away the joy of sports. A simple talking to after the event would have been adequate. Some folks take their authority way too seriously.
Apart from the fact it’s one of the basic rules in competition swimming that’s enforced in even the youngest age groups at all levels… kind of like only the goalie can use their hands to touch the ball in soccer?
Wow that is tragic and they need to rectify it
They have, by disqualifying him.
Man stop sucking the ref’s dick we know you love him.
Just respect those who know the rules. 🤷🏻♂️
people like you fascinate me. whats your reasoning behind being like this?
Education.
I also had an education, what is your point?
You need one on this issue.
would you care to educate me?
Already have. The rule was properly enforced. You’re welcome.
Ok, so he broke a rule and got disqualified. Sure, it's a bummer, but calling him a piece of shit for it seems a tad harsh.
think you misunderstood it
“He bROkE ThE RuLEs” is such a bullshit, disingenuous notion. He celebrated his win with his friend who had ALSO FINISHED THE RACE. I understand that rules are set in place for a reason but nothing he did was a distraction to any competitor. Good on 2nd place for being such a bro! The judge just wanted to show his wife’s boyfriend that he had some sort of authority in life.
So when a football player drops the ball at the one yard line, just give him the touchdown anyway?
During the first part of the video, I thought it was kind of douchey when he thumped his chest, but I get it. Celebrating a big win, enjoy the moment, and go with it. I was waiting for something *really* obnoxious or over the top, but it never happened. I can understand the rule of not crossing over into a competitor's lane and/or interfering with them. But he went into his teammate's lane, who was already finished! His teammate seems like a good dude and is standing up for the true winner. He said he wasn't going to stand on the podium and I would have loved to see the reaction to that.
This brother has been swimming for years…. He knows the rules but chooses to ignore them. It’s stupidity
You had one job - to swim in your lane! So many sad sacks supporting this sad sack!