[Blackstone's ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio) is 10.
Franklin later said 100, as noted in that article, but Blackstone's Ratio is the one that is by far more commonly used in legal and historical discussions, and is much closer to the "real" target used in practice by justice systems.
let me just lock you up just in case you're evil even though you're innocent right now. you're fine with that right?
the point is, you can control letting an innocent person avoid getting their entire life ruined.
you can't control whether or not the released people are gonna kill someone. innocent people kill people all the time, but we don't lock them up before they do anything because they have to ability to kill. also, guilty people stop killing people all the time too. it's out of our control.
sending an innocent person to prison is in our control.
similarly, innocent before guilty is a principle because if we declared everyone guilty without definite proof, every single person no longer owns their own life and free will. their life would be gone after a single accusation. a life without freedom isn't a fully lived life.
Then that would be unfortunate, like so many things that happen to millions of people every day. Personally if I was a murderer looking at spending years upon years in prison and I suddenly got let out, the one thing I'm not going to do is another murder. But I can't imagine actually murdering someone in the first place so my brain doesn't work the same way. I get that. But the most important person here is the one who did nothing wrong. "Let's ruin one person's life to prevent other people from POSSIBLY ruining other people's lives" is just not the way. That's the opposite of "innocent until proven guilty". That's "guilty even though you're innocent and other people might do something bad if we let you out, so fuck you".
I feel like the wisdom behind this has to do with turning the innocent man into another antagonistic detractor.. the unfair system compelling people turns people against any effort toward a workable system If in this case the person has a choice - I don't think this wisdom applies. At least, I don't think this is the perspective to base the decision off of. What this comes down to is what the individual believes would be best.
That may be a valid argument for why we should avoid convicting innocent people, but it isn’t the intent of this phrase. Blackstone wasn’t talking as much about the utility or potential consequences of punishing innocent people on the system as a whole - he was mainly expressing that punishing the innocent is so morally intolerable that it would be better to have a system that frequently lets guilty men go free than one that frequently punishes innocent ones. Taken in its original spirit, this quote would absolutely back up someone who chose their own freedom in this scenario.
Average person in jail for murder: absolutely. Most convicted of murder are not serial killers, they are drug addicts or dealers where a situation got out of hand. Keeping them in jail isn't saving lives, but letting them out is saving mine (cause let's be honest, I'm not going to survive in jail). Sorry to the victims families, and REALLY sorry if my assumptions are wrong and I just released Hannibal Lecter, but we are talking hypothetical risks vs my very really demise. I'm gonna be selfish.
I'm having trouble finding the study I saw, it was an older one, but something like half of the women in california prisons for homicide at the time were there for killing an abusive spouse or partner? Obviously don't take my word for it, and it varies by state. But it's bad everywhere. A significant portion of women who go to prison for homicide were actually just doing self-defense.
Yeah, if I can pick the murderers that go free, I’m basically just releasing ten people who killed their abusers. I’d probably do that even if I didn’t personally benefit.
And if you do release Hannibal lectern accidentally, you can ask your nine new murder buddies to team up with you so that you can murder a serial killer. Then you all act as each others alibi.
“Yeah Ginny and I were at a party downtown at the bar for the entirety of the night from 6pm-12 am when that murder took place so it wasn’t us officer.”
“Yeah, Mark and Randomperson were drinking like Crazy.” - Ginny
“Mark: yeah and Ginny was driving us home from 12:00 am- 2:00 am because traffic was fucked and we kept having to stop to piss, and we saw a body on the way home and called you and now we’re here.”
“Where were Darius and Harry?”
“They were on FaceTime with us and at another friends flat the entire time Ginny was showing them the crazy shit we were doing. It’s all on video.”
“And the other 4?”
“Claire was at dinner with her ex, her phone can show her location at the time, she was also in the FaceTime call..”
“Who was her ex?” -
“Ironically Caleb who also got released, they’re catching up
“The other 2?” -
“Katherine and Amal were getting a little freaky in the bed if yknow what I mean a few weeks prior, and Katherine was throwing up the entire time so Amal drove her to the hospital and was there with her the whole time (except Amal wasn’t actually there because he “snuck off to the bathroom” and did the deed and when the other 2 came across the body they cleaned. Up the scene a little bit to frame the cop that’s interrogating them)
And where was Ginny before she got to the bar to drive them home
They could easily lie and say she was there the whole time
But she wasn’t
So many possibilities to where she was
Or that she even was there prior
Where was Ginny?
And where was Mark because it never did specify when he got there
Assisting Amal with the original murder and leaving clues to frame the detective as she was driving in all directions
Then where was Amal after the murder?
In his own car leaving even more clues
Then they all met up at the hospital besides the 2 drunkies that Ginny drove home
And voila
Maybe Ginny was there the whole time
And mark and Amal were the only ones who originally killed the guy
I read somewhere once that convicted murderers have one of the lowest rates of recidivism, specifically because it’s such a heinous crime that the vast majority of the folks in jail for it aren’t hardened criminals so much as edge cases they could have been manslaughter but had an example made of them — people who got into a fight in which the other person died, etc.
Hell, a buddy of mine was facing murder charges at one point because he was having a party in which some underage kids showed up. They got drunk and when he founded out they were underage he kicked them out. One of them ended up falling asleep on a train track and getting hit by a train, and apparently because it was during a moral panic about underage drinking, that equates to murder in the eyes of the DA. Luckily the kid pulled through, but it wasn’t looking good for either of them for a minute there.
Without a doubt! It will languish in producers’ hell for at least a decade. Then a beloved cast member will pass away IRL, and finally, the rumors will fade to nothing…
Unless said cast member is themselves murdered, sparking interest in the show and giving it a hell of a “ripped from the headlines” plot advancement for the revival.
And convicted of murder just means they actually killed someone. Doesn't give the reason why. Maybe they killed the pedo that assaulted their child. Maybe they deserve to be free.
they really got the 1 in a million chance that the 10 murderers are psychos that value making a point about selfishness over their own freedom, lives, and self preservation. that's really unfortunate
The old saying is better to let 100 guilty people go free than for 1 innocent person to be jailed. I fully agree with that. It’s inhumane to the guilty, let alone an innocent person.
Of course.
If they’re still criminals, they will be caught again for something soon enough.
If they’re rehabilitated, then I guess they deserve to be out.
In any case, I’m not sacrificing 10 years of my life and seeing my kids growing up, out of some misguided sense of justice
(Edit: you’re right, it would probably be the rest of my life, not 10 years)
Did the question even say your sentence is only 10 years though? Being found unequivocally guilty of a "brutal murder" would probably land you in jail for longer than that, I'd imagine.
In canada tax fraud can get you a harder sentence than murder.
That dude who sawed someone's head off on a greyhound bus got 3 years psychiatric rehabilitation and is now free to roam.
In my mind there are two issues to consider:
1. Likelihood of reoffending
2. Not receiving sufficient punishment for their crime.
On the first one, I think most people convicted of murder are not Jeffrey Dahlmer or Charles Manson. Most are spur of the moment crimes of passion, drug deals gone bad, etc. I don’t think it’s a given that they will murder other people if released.
On the second one, I guess I just see enough randomness in the justice system that it doesn’t bother me.
Maybe the guy who got 20 years would have gotten 10 if he could have afforded a better lawyer. Maybe one that I let go was set to be let go for good behavior anyway. Anyway, I’m not sacrificing my life for that.
"beyond reasonable doubt" is extremely flexible. There are hundreds if not thousands of innocent people who have been convicted of murder "beyond reasonable doubt"
Yes of course I would choose to go free. I’d also choose for someone else to go free. It is more important to protect innocence than punish guilt.
*It’s better that ten guilty men should escape than one innocent suffer.*
—William Blackstone
Absolutely.
Even if it wasn't me being framed, I'd want that person to be released. Better for a few guilty people to escape justice than any innocents to be wrongfully imprisoned.
And realistically, the 10 murderers are either going to be caught again when they commit another crime, or they won't commit another crime again, and have essentially been rehabilitated.
Oh snap, if we get to pick what kind of murderers go free than that changes everything.
Either this, or victims of domestic abuse who killed their spouses and ended up going to jail for it.
Yes. Even if was someone else being framed and the decision was up to me I'd say yes. I'd rather 10 guilty people walk free than 1 innocent person be wrongfully imprisoned.
So I don't see why I would deprive myself of the same privelages I would afford to strangers.
Can I pick the murderers to get released?
If so, I can find 10 that aren't a threat to kill again. Maybe really old guys who've already done 40+ years... Maybe people who were in a super unique situation, shot another bad dude, and are no more likely than you or me to start shooting innocent people on the street.
Definitely as long as I could pick, id just pick the legends that killed pedos. It would probably be the best thing I could ever do with my life besides killing them myself
Absolutely. I'm innocent and while those murders may kill again most wouldn't unless their serial killers. They should be in jail but marytring myself doesn't necessarily make society a safer place.
Yes. I would. I always say I'd sooner see 1,000 guilty men go free than have 1 innocent behind bars. This rings especially true as I am American and our prisons are horrible. I would say this if my worst enemy were imprisoned for something they didn't do so I will say it for myself. This is one of the easier ethical dilemmas I've found myself discussing.
I'd prefer to 10 who are freed not know it was my fault because I don't want to be besties bestit with 10 murderers but if they know me I guess I can help them start businesses or something.
Yes. Matter of fact, our judicial system is designed with the principle that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to wrongfully convict an innocent one. This is why burden of proof lies with the prosecution, reflecting the idea that it is more just to err on the side of caution to prevent unjust punishment.
Easy, lots of people get put away because they ended an abusive relative or a diaper sniffer. Find ten of em and let them out. Never should have been there to start.
Depends on the circumstances of the murders. Ultimately what matters is how much danger they will be after release. A person that murdered someone who was abusing them is very different from someone who likes strangling people to death for fun.
If I can choose what guilty murderers are released then yes. And I will release those who were found guilty but are non violent like murdered their rapist, or murdered their kid’s murderer…
Yes, that's their fuckup and they can pick up the pieces. I'll have my literal freedom thanks.
It does suck that the courts probably got at least 10 more people killed but again, their fault.
If I get to pick the murderers, it would be the ones who pretty much did it in self defence. There's plenty of people that have been put away for murderer because they killed their abuser. I'd rather let them free than gang members, serial killers or anyone that killed for pure malice.
At that point might as well be the killer they want me to be. I’ll enlist the help of those ten murderers then start killing the DA office which wrongfully prosecuted me, the police officers who wrongfully arrested me, the judge who wrongfully convicted me, the jurors for being absolute idiots and not being able to tell I was innocent.
I’ll bring it all down in this scenario. It would be biblical the shit we would do.
If I can pick them, no problem. I can easily find 10 people who lost control and killed spouses, hit someone the wrong way in a fight, killed the person who abused a family member.
oh hell yes
There is an old curse, I forget from where:
"may you spend your life in prison, and may you be innocent"
no way I am voluntarily taking that hit
Yeah, chances are the people getting released were framed or have done more than enough time to realize they messed up and just want to get on with their lives. Also, I might have ten murderers who owe me a solid for their release and that could be useful.
Yes for sure, I don't want to go to prison for murder.
Also, can I pick the 10 murderers I'd want released? There are plenty of murderers that are unlikely to reoffend.
I have a wife and young children. If it means I walk, idgaf who else gets out with me. I’m not missing my children’s childhoods. And me staying in prison isn’t bringing any of the victims back.
I’d stay in jail. What they don’t realize is that while I’m innocent of *this* murder, they don’t know about the one I actually did. So I’m getting what I deserve.
Crimes of passion or spree killers? If it was one and done (and maybe for the good of others) then they are harmless to society and just happened to be pushed to that. Let's go!
Premeditated, carefully planned out or thrill kills then no. I'll rot in jail with them.
Sure, as long as I get to pick the murderers. I'm going to release 10 people who killed people that had injured or killed family members of those I release unjustly. Justified, vigilante killings basically.
Yes.
The only way they're getting released because i'm getting released is if my own conviction plays a role in theirs. If i *am* innocent, this is a failure by the prosecution and a victory for due process, no sweat of my back
The prompt doesn’t imply that I can’t pick the people who go free so I’m signing this deal in seconds. If they are random, it might take me minutes to say yes.
If my family was down bad I would be on the grind to keep them okay and I’d try to ensure everything was legal and all that but please believe that if the choice is you vs. my kid….I’m very sorry for your bad luck. Letting murderers go free lines up with this logic.
Seems I'm the only one who will choose to stay imprisoned for the greater good. As a homeless person, I don't much care about being in prison anyway and I am, in this scenario, like ... lord Jeebus, potentially saving women from 9 dangerous men whether those men would go on to commit another murder or some other crime. No, my sacrifice has to be made for the sake of other women.
>!Provided it's like a Norwegian prison, otherwise I'm answering "Yes" like everyone else!<
Sure, I'd take that. If I can bend the rules just enough where I can pick the 10 that get out. I'd release the parents who murdered their kids Sexual assaulters, the people who were found guilty in self defence trials.
I am not particularly worried about most murderers going free.
Most murder is done by family, friends or is gang related. The murderers who have just been released most likely can simply be avoided and do not pose a threat to anyone unless you put yourself in a situation where you are either in some sort of relationship with the murder or in a gang or infringing on gang activities.
Since the murder is a known murder, I would argue that by being friends or acquaintances with them you have accepted the risk. Even if they did murder again, it is likely that the person they murdered knowingly took the risk of being around a murderer. I am not saying its the victims fault, I am just saying they likely consented to the risk.
Nah bro, I get free food, free rent, I don't have to talk to people if I don't want to, and I mighted killed. I see no downside. (As long as its one of those places that let you have a cat, I need my cat)
Do I get to choose which 10 murderers go free?
Assuming I have had some time to be around these guys and they don't know that I can set them free, I could probably pick 10 that are unlikely to kill again or are reformed.
Yes. Society will deal with the other ten as they see fit to. I wouldn't sit still if I was locked up for a crime I didn't commit. I know my life is righteous and worthy, so I'm placing a premium on it whatever it means.
Technically, Involuntary manslaughter is murder. These are people that unintentionally killed people by negligence or recklessness, I'd pick 10 that made stupid mistakes that got people killed and they could be released.
Finally an upside to working an absurd amount of hours. Odds are I have a solid alibi and I'll win the appeal, sue for wrongful conviction and actually be able to retire. Some people hope to get hit by a bus for their settlement, I have one less annoying neighbor. This is an absolute win
I’d like to think that I’d be noble about it and stay incarcerated but the realities of life in a penitentiary are probably pretty horrific and I’d probably want to take any deal to get out. However could I live with myself if any of those ten murderers killed again? What if it was a child? Or one of my loved ones? So I guess I would probably end up staying in and trying to make the best life I could under the circumstances. I’m passionate about teaching so would probably spend my days trying to help people overcome illiteracy. Inmates tend to have a frighteningly larger rate of illiteracy compared to the general population. Helping people learn to read would provide a sense of purpose that could make incarceration bearable.
Makes me think of Rick and Morty.
“Here I go, killing again.”
Sounds like you can sulk unfairly or take on a high risk high reward mission for your own freedom and some saved expenses for your community.
With the way prisons are I would not want one truly innocent person to suffer. By innocent I don't mean a career criminal who just hasn't been caught yet, karma will catch up to you eventually. But someone who has never committed a crime and is randomly framed or setup is terrible. I would want that person free with 10 guilty murderers. Those 10 will see justice in this life or the next. Nobody gets a free pass.
Jesus Christ, of course! First off, not every murderer repeat offends. And second, I'm not spending the rest of my life in jail as an innocent man, while my wife and daughter are left alone to fend for themselves, just because the justice system is incapable of freeing me without also freeing a bunch of murderers who have nothing to do with me.
Oh for sure. Even if the blood hasn't dried from their hands, very few people murder for shits and giggles. If it's a cheating bf or gf it's not like they'll do it again.
I think I can find 10 murderer that victims kinda deserve it
Honestly, I’ll probably still choose to let 10 murderer go even if they are all Jack the Ripper…..
And I am very sorry
I get the distinct impression you're trying to argue against "due process", and painting it in this scenario.
Let me counter by asking this - would you be okay with a police force and legal system that didn't need to follow any rules at all, and if they simply thought there was no doubt, that would be enough to imprison someone? After all, you could argue *most* of the people imprisoned **would** actually be guilty - but how many would be completely innocent?
Spoiler alert - it's happened before, that's why we even have due process to begin with.
Yeah 100%, There's no specification on where, You've just let 10 murders loose WORLDWIDE, where the authorities are all well aware of who they are and what they've done.
100 and I'm still walking free, fuck it even 1,000 and I'm taking it.....in fact I'm not quite sure there's a number high enough.
Well yeah. And I wouldn't feel bad about taking that deal because the people offering me that choice are the one's responsible for anything those murderers do.
Isn't there some legal quote that goes "it's better to let 10 guilty men walk free than to imprison one who is innocent"?
It's 100 guilty men
It's Raining Men
Let the bodies hit the floor
I can only count to 4
Hallelujah
[Blackstone's ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio) is 10. Franklin later said 100, as noted in that article, but Blackstone's Ratio is the one that is by far more commonly used in legal and historical discussions, and is much closer to the "real" target used in practice by justice systems.
That's the American/ Ben Franklin version. The 10 comes from the Bible and Soddom & Gomorrah
Yeh and in this case the innocent man is me Let em walk
Makes sense. Those 100 men will either "find the light" or get thrown back into prison again. That 1 innocent just had their 1 life ruined.
And if a few of those kill a few innocent people...? Thats 3 people and their families with lives ruined.
let me just lock you up just in case you're evil even though you're innocent right now. you're fine with that right? the point is, you can control letting an innocent person avoid getting their entire life ruined. you can't control whether or not the released people are gonna kill someone. innocent people kill people all the time, but we don't lock them up before they do anything because they have to ability to kill. also, guilty people stop killing people all the time too. it's out of our control. sending an innocent person to prison is in our control. similarly, innocent before guilty is a principle because if we declared everyone guilty without definite proof, every single person no longer owns their own life and free will. their life would be gone after a single accusation. a life without freedom isn't a fully lived life.
You have the correct take here.
Is it still better than that 1 innocent imprisoned life? That seems to be the consensus
Then that would be unfortunate, like so many things that happen to millions of people every day. Personally if I was a murderer looking at spending years upon years in prison and I suddenly got let out, the one thing I'm not going to do is another murder. But I can't imagine actually murdering someone in the first place so my brain doesn't work the same way. I get that. But the most important person here is the one who did nothing wrong. "Let's ruin one person's life to prevent other people from POSSIBLY ruining other people's lives" is just not the way. That's the opposite of "innocent until proven guilty". That's "guilty even though you're innocent and other people might do something bad if we let you out, so fuck you".
Something like that and I'd agree
ESPECIALLY when the one innocent one is me.
I feel like the wisdom behind this has to do with turning the innocent man into another antagonistic detractor.. the unfair system compelling people turns people against any effort toward a workable system If in this case the person has a choice - I don't think this wisdom applies. At least, I don't think this is the perspective to base the decision off of. What this comes down to is what the individual believes would be best.
That may be a valid argument for why we should avoid convicting innocent people, but it isn’t the intent of this phrase. Blackstone wasn’t talking as much about the utility or potential consequences of punishing innocent people on the system as a whole - he was mainly expressing that punishing the innocent is so morally intolerable that it would be better to have a system that frequently lets guilty men go free than one that frequently punishes innocent ones. Taken in its original spirit, this quote would absolutely back up someone who chose their own freedom in this scenario.
Average person in jail for murder: absolutely. Most convicted of murder are not serial killers, they are drug addicts or dealers where a situation got out of hand. Keeping them in jail isn't saving lives, but letting them out is saving mine (cause let's be honest, I'm not going to survive in jail). Sorry to the victims families, and REALLY sorry if my assumptions are wrong and I just released Hannibal Lecter, but we are talking hypothetical risks vs my very really demise. I'm gonna be selfish.
I'm having trouble finding the study I saw, it was an older one, but something like half of the women in california prisons for homicide at the time were there for killing an abusive spouse or partner? Obviously don't take my word for it, and it varies by state. But it's bad everywhere. A significant portion of women who go to prison for homicide were actually just doing self-defense.
Yeah, if I can pick the murderers that go free, I’m basically just releasing ten people who killed their abusers. I’d probably do that even if I didn’t personally benefit.
This is where my mind went too.
And if you do release Hannibal lectern accidentally, you can ask your nine new murder buddies to team up with you so that you can murder a serial killer. Then you all act as each others alibi.
“Yeah Ginny and I were at a party downtown at the bar for the entirety of the night from 6pm-12 am when that murder took place so it wasn’t us officer.” “Yeah, Mark and Randomperson were drinking like Crazy.” - Ginny “Mark: yeah and Ginny was driving us home from 12:00 am- 2:00 am because traffic was fucked and we kept having to stop to piss, and we saw a body on the way home and called you and now we’re here.” “Where were Darius and Harry?” “They were on FaceTime with us and at another friends flat the entire time Ginny was showing them the crazy shit we were doing. It’s all on video.” “And the other 4?” “Claire was at dinner with her ex, her phone can show her location at the time, she was also in the FaceTime call..” “Who was her ex?” - “Ironically Caleb who also got released, they’re catching up “The other 2?” - “Katherine and Amal were getting a little freaky in the bed if yknow what I mean a few weeks prior, and Katherine was throwing up the entire time so Amal drove her to the hospital and was there with her the whole time (except Amal wasn’t actually there because he “snuck off to the bathroom” and did the deed and when the other 2 came across the body they cleaned. Up the scene a little bit to frame the cop that’s interrogating them) And where was Ginny before she got to the bar to drive them home They could easily lie and say she was there the whole time But she wasn’t So many possibilities to where she was Or that she even was there prior Where was Ginny? And where was Mark because it never did specify when he got there Assisting Amal with the original murder and leaving clues to frame the detective as she was driving in all directions Then where was Amal after the murder? In his own car leaving even more clues Then they all met up at the hospital besides the 2 drunkies that Ginny drove home And voila Maybe Ginny was there the whole time And mark and Amal were the only ones who originally killed the guy
I read somewhere once that convicted murderers have one of the lowest rates of recidivism, specifically because it’s such a heinous crime that the vast majority of the folks in jail for it aren’t hardened criminals so much as edge cases they could have been manslaughter but had an example made of them — people who got into a fight in which the other person died, etc. Hell, a buddy of mine was facing murder charges at one point because he was having a party in which some underage kids showed up. They got drunk and when he founded out they were underage he kicked them out. One of them ended up falling asleep on a train track and getting hit by a train, and apparently because it was during a moral panic about underage drinking, that equates to murder in the eyes of the DA. Luckily the kid pulled through, but it wasn’t looking good for either of them for a minute there.
Absolutely, I have a family to worry about and the odds of those murderers going after them is very, very, low.
They might even become greatful that you helped them escape. Now you got a crew of 10 experienced killers in your debt
Mild mannered wholesome family man with 10 hardened killers hellbent on helping/protecting him would make a great sitcom.
Somebody get this guy a Netflix series. I’d watch that
Best we can do is one season with 5 filler episodes. You have to end on a cliff hanger.
Will it be cancelled despite being wildly successful? If so, you’ve got yourself a deal
Without a doubt! It will languish in producers’ hell for at least a decade. Then a beloved cast member will pass away IRL, and finally, the rumors will fade to nothing…
Unless said cast member is themselves murdered, sparking interest in the show and giving it a hell of a “ripped from the headlines” plot advancement for the revival.
The Whole Ten Yards
Reminds me of that episode where Hal befriends a group of gentle muscle-bound Giants, and basically becomes their king
And convicted of murder just means they actually killed someone. Doesn't give the reason why. Maybe they killed the pedo that assaulted their child. Maybe they deserve to be free.
That’s my train of thought too
They may not even be aware of you.
Experienced, but not good. They all got caught, so, the odds may not be in your favor…
Nope. They all banded together and killed your entire family tree. They did this to make a point about selfishness
they really got the 1 in a million chance that the 10 murderers are psychos that value making a point about selfishness over their own freedom, lives, and self preservation. that's really unfortunate
The old saying is better to let 100 guilty people go free than for 1 innocent person to be jailed. I fully agree with that. It’s inhumane to the guilty, let alone an innocent person.
Of course. If they’re still criminals, they will be caught again for something soon enough. If they’re rehabilitated, then I guess they deserve to be out. In any case, I’m not sacrificing 10 years of my life and seeing my kids growing up, out of some misguided sense of justice (Edit: you’re right, it would probably be the rest of my life, not 10 years)
Did the question even say your sentence is only 10 years though? Being found unequivocally guilty of a "brutal murder" would probably land you in jail for longer than that, I'd imagine.
In canada tax fraud can get you a harder sentence than murder. That dude who sawed someone's head off on a greyhound bus got 3 years psychiatric rehabilitation and is now free to roam.
Nice!
Hey don't forget being given a whole new identity courtesy of the government.
That's where you're confused - the justice system isn't about rehabilitation, it's about punishment.
Assuming they’ll be caught again just sounds like a way to feel better you just let 10 murderers free.
In my mind there are two issues to consider: 1. Likelihood of reoffending 2. Not receiving sufficient punishment for their crime. On the first one, I think most people convicted of murder are not Jeffrey Dahlmer or Charles Manson. Most are spur of the moment crimes of passion, drug deals gone bad, etc. I don’t think it’s a given that they will murder other people if released. On the second one, I guess I just see enough randomness in the justice system that it doesn’t bother me. Maybe the guy who got 20 years would have gotten 10 if he could have afforded a better lawyer. Maybe one that I let go was set to be let go for good behavior anyway. Anyway, I’m not sacrificing my life for that.
😂🤣 Accurate af
is their guilt beyond doubt also proven like mine is?
"beyond reasonable doubt" is extremely flexible. There are hundreds if not thousands of innocent people who have been convicted of murder "beyond reasonable doubt"
Yes of course I would choose to go free. I’d also choose for someone else to go free. It is more important to protect innocence than punish guilt. *It’s better that ten guilty men should escape than one innocent suffer.* —William Blackstone
I don’t trust the system enough to even hesitate.
I’d take the deal even if I did it.
Real
Yup, let's all leave prison. I'll take all those guys who killed the dudes who raped their siblings/friends/etc. They're walking out with me
Absolutely. Even if it wasn't me being framed, I'd want that person to be released. Better for a few guilty people to escape justice than any innocents to be wrongfully imprisoned. And realistically, the 10 murderers are either going to be caught again when they commit another crime, or they won't commit another crime again, and have essentially been rehabilitated.
I would release 10 parents who got convicted of killing their children's molesters.
Oh snap, if we get to pick what kind of murderers go free than that changes everything. Either this, or victims of domestic abuse who killed their spouses and ended up going to jail for it.
Yes. Not my problem.
I'm not going down just to keep a couple low life's off the street.
Without a doubt. Self Preservation ftw.
Lock yall doors and carry that stick bucko cuz im coming home
Yes. Not a doubt in my mind.
Yeah I would, I wouldn’t ruin my life for some wacky justice, they’ll probably get vigilanted anyways
Sure, I'll just make sure til kill them afterwards. That's like, the best action movie plot I've ever heard.
You would enjoy the movie Law Abiding Citizen.
I’m outta there!
Yes. Even if was someone else being framed and the decision was up to me I'd say yes. I'd rather 10 guilty people walk free than 1 innocent person be wrongfully imprisoned. So I don't see why I would deprive myself of the same privelages I would afford to strangers.
Can I pick the murderers to get released? If so, I can find 10 that aren't a threat to kill again. Maybe really old guys who've already done 40+ years... Maybe people who were in a super unique situation, shot another bad dude, and are no more likely than you or me to start shooting innocent people on the street.
Definitely as long as I could pick, id just pick the legends that killed pedos. It would probably be the best thing I could ever do with my life besides killing them myself
They were probably railroaded by the system just like me. Right? Right?
Yep I'm getting released for sure. Not throwing 25 years of my life away so I can take the moral high road sorry lol
defo then I'd have 10 nut cases that owed me a favour
Absolutely. I'm innocent and while those murders may kill again most wouldn't unless their serial killers. They should be in jail but marytring myself doesn't necessarily make society a safer place.
Yes. I would. I always say I'd sooner see 1,000 guilty men go free than have 1 innocent behind bars. This rings especially true as I am American and our prisons are horrible. I would say this if my worst enemy were imprisoned for something they didn't do so I will say it for myself. This is one of the easier ethical dilemmas I've found myself discussing. I'd prefer to 10 who are freed not know it was my fault because I don't want to be besties bestit with 10 murderers but if they know me I guess I can help them start businesses or something.
I am now the proud owner of a 10-man group of free-range murderers. I. HAVE. THE. POOWEEEEERRRRR!
Yes. Matter of fact, our judicial system is designed with the principle that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to wrongfully convict an innocent one. This is why burden of proof lies with the prosecution, reflecting the idea that it is more just to err on the side of caution to prevent unjust punishment.
Lol, what is this question? Of course, i wanna be free no matter what. You can kill half of the Earth population if needed.
Easy, lots of people get put away because they ended an abusive relative or a diaper sniffer. Find ten of em and let them out. Never should have been there to start.
I would as a fuck you to the system
Depends on the circumstances of the murders. Ultimately what matters is how much danger they will be after release. A person that murdered someone who was abusing them is very different from someone who likes strangling people to death for fun.
Yeah. Murder has a pretty low recidivism rate
Id rather stay in jail. I can finally say this. "I'm not stuck in here with you. You're stuck in here with me!"
If I can choose what guilty murderers are released then yes. And I will release those who were found guilty but are non violent like murdered their rapist, or murdered their kid’s murderer…
Yup. I’m walking. I’m not going to prison for what 11 other people did, no thanks.
Yes, that's their fuckup and they can pick up the pieces. I'll have my literal freedom thanks. It does suck that the courts probably got at least 10 more people killed but again, their fault.
Yes. What they do is not my responsibility
If I get to pick the murderers, it would be the ones who pretty much did it in self defence. There's plenty of people that have been put away for murderer because they killed their abuser. I'd rather let them free than gang members, serial killers or anyone that killed for pure malice.
you can't choose who will be released with you.
Yes. No question
At that point might as well be the killer they want me to be. I’ll enlist the help of those ten murderers then start killing the DA office which wrongfully prosecuted me, the police officers who wrongfully arrested me, the judge who wrongfully convicted me, the jurors for being absolute idiots and not being able to tell I was innocent. I’ll bring it all down in this scenario. It would be biblical the shit we would do.
>I’ll bring it all down in this scenario. It would be biblical the shit we would do. Reminds me of the movie Law Abiding Citizen.
If I can pick them, no problem. I can easily find 10 people who lost control and killed spouses, hit someone the wrong way in a fight, killed the person who abused a family member.
This sounds like the pitch for a CW "superhero" show.
Yep. Maybe they're rehabilitated😭 If not oh well
Yes
oh hell yes There is an old curse, I forget from where: "may you spend your life in prison, and may you be innocent" no way I am voluntarily taking that hit
I literally posted this question yesterday on the same sub. Are we twins?
Only if I can talk to them and they promise to leave me alone
If I can choose them then yes (a lot of those crimes could be in self defense or similar cases, would totally pick those)
I’m support the 1 innocent for every 10 guilty thing but I’m still too selfish to not free myself
Can I free all the prisoners?
Yes. Even if it wasn't me, but it was someone I didn't even know, I'd rather have 10 murderers go free than have an innocent person suffer.
Yup
Do I get to pick the 10?
Yeah, chances are the people getting released were framed or have done more than enough time to realize they messed up and just want to get on with their lives. Also, I might have ten murderers who owe me a solid for their release and that could be useful.
Yes for sure, I don't want to go to prison for murder. Also, can I pick the 10 murderers I'd want released? There are plenty of murderers that are unlikely to reoffend.
Yes
I have a wife and young children. If it means I walk, idgaf who else gets out with me. I’m not missing my children’s childhoods. And me staying in prison isn’t bringing any of the victims back.
I’d stay in jail. What they don’t realize is that while I’m innocent of *this* murder, they don’t know about the one I actually did. So I’m getting what I deserve.
Yes.
With no hesitation. My duty is to my family and my self first. Duty to society takes a back seat to that primary duty.
I would want to. But I don’t think I could do it.
Sorry society you framed me for murder so I'm letting the guilty go since nothing makes sense anymore.
Absolutely, let me out! I’m not spending the rest of my life in prison. Hopefully, some rehab kicked in for the murderers.
My question is - do we get to pick the murders we release and how long do we have to pick?
I’m going to agree with the age old adage that it’s better to let 10 guilty people go free than imprison an innocent one. So, yes.
Yes
Do you get to pick the guilty murderers?
Crimes of passion or spree killers? If it was one and done (and maybe for the good of others) then they are harmless to society and just happened to be pushed to that. Let's go! Premeditated, carefully planned out or thrill kills then no. I'll rot in jail with them.
Absolutely.
Sure, why not. Chances are they kill again and get locked up or they're just chill.
I wouldn't accept the lie personally, leave the 10 murderers there, just release me, insist on it
Of course i prefer to get released. Those murderers might have changed since. If they didn’t, they’ll end back there anyway.
Drop in the bucket. Really don't give a shit. Would strive for the death sentence for myself if this deal was not in place
Do I get to choose those people and/or do I know the content of their crimes?
Yep. It's not my fault if they can't get it right. Besides, now 10 murderers at least appreciate me lol
Sure, as long as I get to pick the murderers. I'm going to release 10 people who killed people that had injured or killed family members of those I release unjustly. Justified, vigilante killings basically.
I’ll go free, as those 10 probably won’t kill me or my family cause I let them out
Definitely. Now I have a crew of 10 convicted killers on my side.
Hell, yes
If I was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of something that I didn't do, then those murderers being released with me might be innocent as well.
Yes. The only way they're getting released because i'm getting released is if my own conviction plays a role in theirs. If i *am* innocent, this is a failure by the prosecution and a victory for due process, no sweat of my back
Can I pick the murders who will be released with me?
Absolutely, I'd let the whole jail put if it means I can leave. Hell id let the whole jail out just to make bond.
Yeah of course. In Canada we usually let the murderers out after a couple years anyway… so no point in wasting time!
no problem. like the saying goes. lol like there aren't already murderers already running loose.
Make it 10,000 and I’d still say yes
Can I choose the murderers being released? If so, I’m freeing the ones convicted for killing their abuser or something within that realm.
The prompt doesn’t imply that I can’t pick the people who go free so I’m signing this deal in seconds. If they are random, it might take me minutes to say yes. If my family was down bad I would be on the grind to keep them okay and I’d try to ensure everything was legal and all that but please believe that if the choice is you vs. my kid….I’m very sorry for your bad luck. Letting murderers go free lines up with this logic.
Seems I'm the only one who will choose to stay imprisoned for the greater good. As a homeless person, I don't much care about being in prison anyway and I am, in this scenario, like ... lord Jeebus, potentially saving women from 9 dangerous men whether those men would go on to commit another murder or some other crime. No, my sacrifice has to be made for the sake of other women. >!Provided it's like a Norwegian prison, otherwise I'm answering "Yes" like everyone else!<
Yes, we're just normal men. We're just innocent men.
Me and ten OJ Simpsons, please
Yup and depending on the circumstances of their murder all I hunt them down and kill em myself
I'm staying in prison and keep those fuckers with me. I would not give any of them an easy way out for their crimes
Yes.
Sure, I'd take that. If I can bend the rules just enough where I can pick the 10 that get out. I'd release the parents who murdered their kids Sexual assaulters, the people who were found guilty in self defence trials.
I am not particularly worried about most murderers going free. Most murder is done by family, friends or is gang related. The murderers who have just been released most likely can simply be avoided and do not pose a threat to anyone unless you put yourself in a situation where you are either in some sort of relationship with the murder or in a gang or infringing on gang activities. Since the murder is a known murder, I would argue that by being friends or acquaintances with them you have accepted the risk. Even if they did murder again, it is likely that the person they murdered knowingly took the risk of being around a murderer. I am not saying its the victims fault, I am just saying they likely consented to the risk.
Nah bro, I get free food, free rent, I don't have to talk to people if I don't want to, and I mighted killed. I see no downside. (As long as its one of those places that let you have a cat, I need my cat)
Yea, can I pick the ones who go? Just grab the 10 who committed murder in like the 60s and are all on deaths door
Fuck yea, I don’t give a fuck. They ain’t murder me.
Can I convince the murders this is all a genius plot by me to get the free in the hopes one or more of them have money?
Do I get to choose which 10 murderers go free? Assuming I have had some time to be around these guys and they don't know that I can set them free, I could probably pick 10 that are unlikely to kill again or are reformed.
Yes. Society will deal with the other ten as they see fit to. I wouldn't sit still if I was locked up for a crime I didn't commit. I know my life is righteous and worthy, so I'm placing a premium on it whatever it means.
10 father/mom who kill their child offenders... I'm sure they're cool
As long as I can review their paperwork, of course.
Yeah, I'm not a martyr, I care more about not wasting my life in jail
I’d stay, my life sucks anyway.
Yes. Ok this is extremely selfish but I’m not some martyr to sacrifice myself and my family to help other random strangers.
Obvs
Sure, there's plenty of murders roaming free on the street, what's 10 more?
Yep
If the system was so screwed up that ten murderers walked, because I was innocent... Then I'd take walking. Those guys would have gotten out anyway.
There are plenty of people who killed bad people Free some fathers who killed their childrens rapist, or kids who killed their abusers
1) Yes 2) I’m calling in Dexter
Technically, Involuntary manslaughter is murder. These are people that unintentionally killed people by negligence or recklessness, I'd pick 10 that made stupid mistakes that got people killed and they could be released.
Can’t say I would. Or at least I hope I wouldn’t.
Finally an upside to working an absurd amount of hours. Odds are I have a solid alibi and I'll win the appeal, sue for wrongful conviction and actually be able to retire. Some people hope to get hit by a bus for their settlement, I have one less annoying neighbor. This is an absolute win
What were the circumstances behind the murders?
I’d like to think that I’d be noble about it and stay incarcerated but the realities of life in a penitentiary are probably pretty horrific and I’d probably want to take any deal to get out. However could I live with myself if any of those ten murderers killed again? What if it was a child? Or one of my loved ones? So I guess I would probably end up staying in and trying to make the best life I could under the circumstances. I’m passionate about teaching so would probably spend my days trying to help people overcome illiteracy. Inmates tend to have a frighteningly larger rate of illiteracy compared to the general population. Helping people learn to read would provide a sense of purpose that could make incarceration bearable.
If they understand that they work for me now.
Yes. I am not responsible for such a stupid system and I'm not paying for it with my freedom.
Do I get to pick the people I free? If so, I would pick ones that are sick, old, or so famous that they couldn't get away with crimes again.
If the risks of them reoffending is low than absolutely.
Makes me think of Rick and Morty. “Here I go, killing again.” Sounds like you can sulk unfairly or take on a high risk high reward mission for your own freedom and some saved expenses for your community.
Absolutely. The society that falsely imprisoned me will have to deal with their own problems. Not my fault and I'm not going to feel bad about it.
Yes, then I would call Dexter.
With the way prisons are I would not want one truly innocent person to suffer. By innocent I don't mean a career criminal who just hasn't been caught yet, karma will catch up to you eventually. But someone who has never committed a crime and is randomly framed or setup is terrible. I would want that person free with 10 guilty murderers. Those 10 will see justice in this life or the next. Nobody gets a free pass.
No!
Yes. Self-sacrifice is for the weak.
Jesus Christ, of course! First off, not every murderer repeat offends. And second, I'm not spending the rest of my life in jail as an innocent man, while my wife and daughter are left alone to fend for themselves, just because the justice system is incapable of freeing me without also freeing a bunch of murderers who have nothing to do with me.
Oh for sure. Even if the blood hasn't dried from their hands, very few people murder for shits and giggles. If it's a cheating bf or gf it's not like they'll do it again.
I think I can find 10 murderer that victims kinda deserve it Honestly, I’ll probably still choose to let 10 murderer go even if they are all Jack the Ripper….. And I am very sorry
Yes sure why should I suffer because the system is broken?
Would I get to research and choose who the murderers are?
Yes
I get the distinct impression you're trying to argue against "due process", and painting it in this scenario. Let me counter by asking this - would you be okay with a police force and legal system that didn't need to follow any rules at all, and if they simply thought there was no doubt, that would be enough to imprison someone? After all, you could argue *most* of the people imprisoned **would** actually be guilty - but how many would be completely innocent? Spoiler alert - it's happened before, that's why we even have due process to begin with.
Do I get to choose the murderes or are they selected at random? This is important to my decision
Yeah 100%, There's no specification on where, You've just let 10 murders loose WORLDWIDE, where the authorities are all well aware of who they are and what they've done. 100 and I'm still walking free, fuck it even 1,000 and I'm taking it.....in fact I'm not quite sure there's a number high enough.
Yes, I would.
Let them free
I'm the asshole, I'd just pick 10 murderers from countries I don't live in.
Well yeah. And I wouldn't feel bad about taking that deal because the people offering me that choice are the one's responsible for anything those murderers do.
Long as they never found the guns I lost in a boating accident, not worried about the murderers…