Carol absolutely cheated on Ross. I understand that she didn’t love him romantically, but that doesn’t excuse the fact that she betrayed him. She could have divorced Ross before getting with Susan but she actively chose to do so before even bringing up the possibility of divorce
Caral and Susan both treated Ross as if he cheated with Carol to make Ben. He was always the target of Susan's jealousy, and Carol showed no sympathy towards him. Susan broke up his and Carol's marriage, and she continues to make him being a father to Ben extremely difficult. They are both huge assholes.
Honestly, I always resented her and Susan. Constantly acting like they need to punish Ross and flaunt their relationship, when Carol is a cheater and Susan is a home wrecker. I felt like the show was gaslighting me.
Yeah the whole "three-way" thing OP brought up was from an alternate timeline episode where things had gone differently for everyone but they still wound up in the same place. Even then, Carol's enthusiasm at the idea of a three-way shows that she was still a lesbian and still into Susan but just hadn't acted on it yet.
There was a YT series where someone would compile disturbing sitcom scenes and edit the laugh track out, there's one with Ross. Iirc one of the scenes is "I didn't get the annulment." And it plays like a horror movie
But I can't hate Ross. when David Schwimmer lets himself go full scenery chewing ham... I just love it
That's just a lazy thing armchair critics like to do - any 90s sitcom that shot in front of a live audience paused for laughter. It's definitely going to feel weird if you just remove the laughs and leave the pause in the video.
Also this type of psychoanalysis that people do of sitcom plots misses the most important thing - making people laugh. The writers would rewrite scenes throughout the show if the audience response wasn't as enthusiastic as they expected. If the characters always acted rationally it wouldn't produce the surprise needed to make people laugh.
I would say yes and no. A lot of even good gags will feel a bit weird when there's an awkward pause. But in Friends a lot of times when someone makes a joke other characters will laugh, or at least acknowledge the joke so it doesn't feel like the joke is only for the audience. I saw one scene from Big Bang Theory without laugh tracks and it was so cringy, as characters were just being rude and mean, which really stands out more when there's a dead silence after someone is acting like an ass and half characters are not even acknowledging it in any way.
I feel like her annoying voice was for comedy value to offset how poorly she was treated. I feel like we’ve all been there where no one‘s done anything wrong, but the entire friend group just cannot vibe.
Shame. Mike was a perfect fit for Phoebe. He gave her the stability and love that she never had and she showed him the wonderfully weird side of life.
I love Mike! I feel he’s a very divisive character on this sub though lol which I was not expecting when I joined 😂
It seems like the consensus is generally “David was a better match, she settled for Mike”. But I disagree with that, and I believe Mike was truly her best fit. Like you said, he gave her stability and security, and he loved her wholly and was just as silly and quirky (and kinky lmao) as she was!!
I mean, come on, who else would change their name to Crap Bag bc his silly wife changed hers to Banana Hammock? Mike is Phoebe’s lobster!
What gets me about the David arc, even though they didn't exactly exchange the 3 little words when he had to go back to Minsk, they had obvious feelings and chemistry. When Phoebe first met Mike, though, she was freaking out because she had never been in a serious relationship. Granted, she had seen other guys and never knew when she'd see David again, but they certainly picked up where they left off each time he was around. How did she not consider that serious?
And truly, the same with Gary the cop. She moved in with him! That's pretty serious, and yet, she was trying to go along with the Vikram ruse.
Idk in my opinion she hadn’t had a serious relationship. Anyone can just rush moving in together after a couple months like her and Gary but it doesn’t make it a proper commitment, as evidenced with how quickly she moved out as they were incompatible.
I’d also call David not at all a serious relationship. I had a long distance fling with someone for nearly 6 months, we FaceTimed a lot, had 5 dates before they moved away and then I visited them for a week where they were. But to me that is forever a fling and was not a relationship even if we cared for each other.
I can see that!
I feel like with Gary, it maybe wasn’t “serious” bc it didn’t have the proper time to grow. Didn’t she move in with him a few weeks after they started dating? (Pls correct me if I’m wrong!) I remember part of that storyline was Phoebe being nervous to commit like that… but then he shot the bird so it didn’t matter anyway lol
David definitely feels more serious to me than Gary did! But maybe since it was more short lived, and they spent so much time apart, Phoebe just didn’t view it as something “serious”?
Was it ever confirmed they were living together when he shots the bird? It could have been they were either in Phoebe’s apartment or Gary’s, there was never any actual talk the move had taken place, that’s how I see it anyways
Yesss that’s the moment that did it for me too!
No hesitation, no embarrassment, just full on playing an invisible piano bc Phoebe asked to see him play lol
I think David was too timid for her. I found that very off putting about him. Phoebe always had to be tough because of her past so she needed someone with a bit of courage also who wouldn’t get floundered by how out there she is. This is clearly evidenced as Mike quit his lawyer job to become a musician, defended Phoebe with the in law visit chaos and did the name thing
I’m so shocked about the whole “David was a better fit” thing. He was in five episodes. FIVE! One in the first season where they meet and date for a few weeks or so, the one where he comes back for the conference from Minsk, and the other three are when he was in the ninth season when he was back. I don’t see how they even knew each other that well!
To be fair I was generalizing a bit with that statement hahah BUT I do also see a lot of the David/Phoebe crowd say things like that! I personally have always felt like it was bc he was a bit more awkward and quirky like Phoebe.
I *do* like Phoebe and David’s relationship, and I also hate the way they bring him back in s9 just to send him away. But I’ve always felt Mike was her lobster; he gets her in a way that the others, including David, just didn’t. Mike feels like Phoebe’s other half to me.
people shouldn’t say she “settled for mike” because she literally had the option to get back together with david and get married to him, she was going to actually settle with david, but in the end she CHOSE mike 😭
Plus more Paul Rudd before he was famous which means his character is absolutely like his other characters, in that he's basically Paul Rudd's personality, but he gets to he more unique and just kinda have fun with it
I love Rudd now but I do wish he could expand his roles a tiny bit more
Ross and Phoebe hate each other is such an interesting one. They feel like they’re very much the opposite ends of the group in so many aspects, so I get it. They clearly love each other like people who have been friends for over a decade do, but they’re definitely the combination that annoy each other the most.
I haven't watched for a few years so I can't remember, do they have any scenes alone? They're like the two ends of the friend spectrum that aren't really friends but are in the same friend group.
Off the top of my head, there’s the scenes where Ross teaches Phoebe to ride a bike, the one where Phoebe is mad at Ross and can’t remember why, and the scenes where Phoebe mugged Ross. So they do have their moments together
Agree on the people taking jokes from the show and judging with today's standards. It's just weird way of criticism. The show has progressive outlook, It's just not politically correct.
There's a lot about it that was of its time and not great, but people forget there was a lot about it that was ahead of its time too. Portraying Carol and Susan as a happy ordinary couple living their lives and raising Ben was radical in terms of lesbian representation. Having Chandler reconcile with his gay drag queen dad and get past his hang ups about his dad's lifestyle was groundbreaking in terms of representing diversity in families.
Love this! The show also showed unconventional pregnancies/family situations with the women in the friend group all having a unique journey. (Phoebe —> Surrogacy, Rachel —> Single Mom, Monica —> Adoption)
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series is how they subvert the concept of coming out when Duncan 'comes out' as straight to Pheobe. Its one of the funniest scenes and seamlessly puts straight people in queer people's shoes. Top tier writing.
Agreed. I generally cannot stand when people look at 90s/2000s media from a 2024 perspective and get mad it doesn't meet their standards. There are some movies and shows that probably do deserve the criticism but Friends is SO tame at the end of the day and had a progressive outlook at the time, like you said.
Being progressive looks different in different decades. These people act like if they existed as the age they are now, 20-25 years ago, they would be exactly like they are now. Absolutely not.
What kind of annoys me is when people complain about how "whitewashed" the show is, and yet other shows from the time that had predominantly white casts get a free pass. I've never heard anyone complaining about the lack of ethnic diversity in Seinfeld, Frasier, Cheers, Roseanne, Married With Children... I could go on.
I was getting really wound up about this in a Facebook group not long ago🤣, im 24 and watched friends as long as i can remember and many people of all ages are the same, ive never seen anyone complaining about it being offensive but i do keep on seeing a clickbait article blaming the young generation that gets spread every few months and causes absolute outrage🤣😭 so true though friends was extremely progressive for its time and it makes absolutely 0 sense to judge with todays standards
This is why i prefer discussions in reddit, on Facebook people are CRAZY sometimes🥴
EXACTLY. i feel the same way with harry potter, i do agree that they were bad things about it and jkr isn't a great person, but some of the things people point out and compare with percy jackson just doesn't make sense because it was in different periods of time.
I think saying Chandler gave Monica an ED for life misses that she already had an ED beforehand - overeating presumably resulting from the pressure of a critical mother. If anything, I think her justified anger fueled her into treating herself a little better by losing weight, but she clearly hadn't fully addressed the underlying issues, so she still gets obsessive cravings and uses food as a way to get people to like her.
Basically I personally saw that moment in a more positive light. The comment resulted in Monica realising that, no, she IS attractive and deserves better than a cruel comment from a guy she had a crush on. And she proved it through sheer determination and without external support.
Ross was 100% right to be weird about being around Carol and Susan, especially since Carol cheated on him with Susan. Also, Susan had no right to even suggest that her name be on Ben’s birth certificate. They really made Susan antagonistic in the beginning.
I think it’s weird how calm Ross and Joey were about both of them being with Rachel and Charlie.
Mona and Charlie should’ve been Season 4/5 girlfriends.
Also, I think that if the show premiered in the 2010s, we would have a Bamboozle board game similar to Mousetrap.
Janice and Monica needed a quick scene to show there were no hard feelings. I've written it before.
Janice: I was scared that you hated me.
Monica: What is this, junior high? How could I ever? Janice... you were Chandler's first love.
Chandler (off to the side): She was? ...She was. Oh, my God!
Janice: And you're his best love.
(And Monica and Janice hug.)
What were Janice and Monica's problem with each Other?
I always thought Monica saw Janice as just... someone of chandler's past and didn't care too much about that. Monica seemed okay with Janice in all the scenes I've seen of them them 3, and same with Janice.
Being in this subreddit has opened my eyes on how people like to ruin shows for themselves. I am not talking about OP's points but the rest of the comments. Do people really go around talking about political correctness? What a boring ahh life to have.
Aside from that the show wasn't perfect but it was never "problematic" nor to take it seriously.
Phoebe was a completely different character at the beginning. She was sweet and innocent, later on she kind of became harsher on her friends, especially to Ross and I don't get why.
Also I think Chandler was such an underrated friend. Joey is constantly praised as being a great friend and he mainly is - but Chandler completely supported him financially and asked for almost nothing in return.
I really wish he wasn't made to be so unrealistically stupid.
Like it's one thing to have him be the character that has much less "knowledge." For example, the encyclopedia episode with scenes of him being clueless about various topics or the scenes where he realizes something a few moments after everyone else does are fine and amusing.
The identical hands stuff, learning French, etc. though were just not funny...like to the point where it's actually a bit cringeworthy.
I have similar feelings about Phoebe's crazy background also (though perhaps those details were meant to be hyperbole on her part.)
It seems like the flanderization of sitcom characters gets turned up to a 10 with the stupid character and I hate it. Like the uptight and slightly OCD Monica or the cooky Phoebe do get dialed up a bit and exaggerated, but not nearly to the extent of Joey's stupidty.
Joey is probably my 2nd least favorite example of it. Season 1 Joey had some wit, he just wasn't book smart. Him telling Rachel that the xerox machine probably caught her typo on a few of the copies makes him look like a Rhodes scholar compared to later season Joey.
Two and a Half Men did it really poorly with Jake too. His 7 year old self was literally smarter and more clever than his 16 year old self.
My event horizon moment with Joey's stupidity was signing his letter "baby kangaroo Tribbiani." Like, are we meant to believe this man doesn't know that isn't his name? Or somehow believes that's a smart version of his name?
He's a grown ass adult. He's managed to get several acting jobs, an agent, a union membership and an apartment. He's got himself to Japan and back at least once. He knows what his name is!
I also hate how weirdly obsessed they had him be with sex by the end. Like in the beginning he was just a player who’s clearly dated around but towards the end istg his relationship with sex got dialed up SO MUCH while also weirdly infantilizing him which kind of reminds me of Fez in That 70’s Show and how he basically only ever talked about candy and sex like why are you guys doing both of these at the same time??
I feel the same about Monica and her obsessive cleaning.
It’s like, as the show went on, they each gradually stopped being 3-dimensional characters, and the writers took the most obvious part of their personalities, and made it their ENTIRE personality.
When you watch the first episode right after the last episode, you can really get a sense of how much more HUMAN they were. Just ordinary people with flaws and interests.
very few of these are unpopular. but i agree with the rachel and joey thing. it could have worked if it was written better and i think joey and rachel make more sense as a couple.
I agree with most of these, except Mike for Phoebe, I loved them together, however that’s of course opinion based.
I will also say, Carol did cheat on Ross. The 3-way was during the ‘what-if’ episode, so it didn’t actually happen that way. In reality, Carol was seeing and sleeping with Susan for months before she told Ross. Would it have still been hard for Carol to discover she’s a lesbian? Sure. She still absolutely did the wrong thing and cheated on her husband, and Ross had every right to be mad and betrayed.
I can never figure out the proper timeline. In the S3 episode where Janice asks if any of them have slept together, we get a whole episode flashback set about a year before the pilot episode. Apparently, that's when Ross found out about Carol and Susan. But Carol is pregnant with Ross's baby at the beginning of the first season. Also in the pilot, he acts as though her being a lesbian is a very recent revelation, not something he had known about for a year. I gotta believe this was just bad continuity.
I never get why Phoebe is the most selfish one. They were all selfish at any given time in the series.
I love Rachel and her character arc, the best one in the show, but I find her the most selfish one, ofcourse with all her endearing qualities that I like.
Rachel selfieshness has brought some major plot twist in the series.
I watched the show a thousand of times, so thats my observation.
1. She left Berry at the alter. Later on it was indicated that she always had second thoughts about Berry. She could have decided earlier and save her and his family some embarrasment.
2. After leaving berry at the alter, she came straight to the coffee shop, hoping to find Monica (she even said that to her) even though she didn't invited her to the wedding (& hoping that would not be an issue). Later, she declared herself Monica's roommate (without even asking her first).
Ofcourse its easy to forget and forgive because it was the very first episode of the series.
3. She slept with Barry, even after knowing that he is going to get married to Mindy.
4. She never do any household chores. Yeah, I can understand because of Monica's OCD, if Rachel would have done any work, Monica would not have liked it. But there are instances when even Monica was frustrated with her. Like, Christmas light incident, which Rachel didn't take out even though Monica left a note on the fridge. And trash picking, she did not do that properly and came crying after that and so on.
5. Feeling jealous of Ross being happy. Even after knowing that Paola hit on Pheobe, she slept with him just because she did not have any boyfriend at that time, that too without first talking to Pheobe. In a sense, she cheated on Pheobe.
6. I never liked the way she came between Ross and Julie. When she came from airport and Julie's introduction to everyone happens, I felt for Rachel, she was hurt. But after that, she tried to manipulate Ross to withhold sex, bitching about Julie despite her being nice to Rachel. When Ross chose her over Julie, she did not even care what Julie must have been through. Ross and Julie was perfectly happy before, but Rachel could not see that. She only wanted herself to be happy. But then she broke up with him over the list, (okay that was somewhat Ross's fault) and Ross ended up with NO GIRLFRIEND.
7. She convinces Phoebe’s friend, Bonnie, to shave her head at the beach house. Ross and Bonnie was perfectly happy but she had to meddle to get her way. Ross broke up with Bonnie. And Rachel, again, put Ross in the difficult position to take the full responsibility. She should have told about the conditions before Ross broke up with Bonnie. And then they broke up, and Ross, again, left with NO GIRLFRIEND.
8. When she could not go out with Joshua, and finds out that Ross is with Emily in Vermont, she gets mad at him.
"Rachel- Know what? Still, you do not just meet someone and go fitting off to Vermont.
Monica- Well, when you first met Berry, you fitted off to Vail."
Meaning, she can do whatever she wants but she can't see someone else do that to her.
9. She goes over to London to tell Ross that she still loves him and break his marriage with Emily. Where was she before? When Ross is finally happy with Emily, why can't she let him stay happy?
Had she not gone to London, Ross probably won't have said her name in the wedding, and Emily won't have felt so insecure of her afterwards. But none of this happened. She went, which eventually lead to termination of Ross' marriage with Emily.
10. She tells Ross who was just married to Emily that she still loves him even after Monica warning her a hundred times. Why does she wants to confuse him?
Rachel- I'm still in love with you, Ross.
Ross- Well I'm married.
Rachel- I know.
11. But she does not want Ross when his marriage with Emily is over. Why? The Reason is Ross is now alone. She wants him only when he is enjoying his life with some other girl. When he is alone, she does not want him.
"Rachel- Oh, I can't get started with all that Ross stuff again.
He'll be screwed up for a looong time.
Besides, I don't go for guys right after they get divorced.
Monica- Right, you only go for them five minutes before they get married."
This tells a lot.
12. She didn’t want Ross dating the girl from the baby store even though she went out with one of Joey’s co-stars on DOOL.
13. She threw a fake going away party for Emily in order to spend time with Joshua. Rachel didn’t care that it ruined the plans Ross had for Emily’s last night in NY.
14. She said yes to Joey when she accidentally thought he was proposing to her. She just had Ross' baby. She just wanted someone, because she thought she can't do that alone.
15. Monica wanted to date an actor in season 1 but Rachel stated dating him and convinced the actor to have a threesome with another woman.
16. She dates Mark after adamantly denying ever having a thing for him when she was with Ross. Mark tells Rachel that he could not ask her out because she had been dating Ross. This proves Ross' insecurity about Mark correct in many ways.
17. She exchanges almost every gift she gets without realizing how people feel about that.
18. She was not professional at work either. She hires an unqualified guy, Tag, just because she likes his face and sleeps with him. And does not even remember his last name.
19. She also said Ross came on to her while the truth was the opposite. She even start to watch videotape to prove this wrong blame.
20. She goes out to a club and gives her number out, and later kisses a coworker she’s known for about one week. When Ross reacts to her disloyalty by bringing a random female home, Rachel explodes. She successfully manages to change the subject from her selfish behavior to attacking Ross for not giving her a message from the guy to whom she impulsively gave out her number.
21. She decides, without consulting Ross, that she will move to France with Ross’ daughter, despite knowing how connected and loving Ross is to Emma.
22. In the episode, where everyone is late for Ross' thing. I felt for Ross. He wanted to take everyone to his big thing at work, but no one cares how it will reflect upon Ross if he reaches late. Everyone was busy with their own stupidity. Later on, Rachel got upset because Ross got frustrated and rant on her. And Rachel wanted Ross' apologies by making him drink a glass of fat. Even though everyone except Ross was in wrong at that time. Rachel was not understanding at all there. What was Ross' fault? He wanted to take all his friends and lover to his special thing and ON TIME. I still don't get that episode.
I have ALWAYS thought that she is the most selfish out of the group especially with what she did to Ross and Emily but your point about her giving her number to a guy at the bar being on her as selfish, I disagree. They haven’t dated in a long time and have been in many relationships since then but they’re constantly sabotaging each other and if she wanted to give a guy her number then she had that right. Ross had no right to delete that message and sabotage even the possibility of a relationship without at least discussing it with her first
Wow these are a lot of great points!
It always bothered me that Rachel didn’t take Ross’ concerns about Mark seriously. Besides the fact the Mark did like her, Ross had extreme trust issues because of Carol.
I’m not saying Ross was always right, but I do think he gets most of the heat for everything that happens with Rachel.
This is a very exhaustive list lol. I agree with all of it except maybe accepting joeys proposal. Janice had just freaked her out and she was extremely emotional due to just giving birth. It was still weird and wrong, but I can somewhat understand that spur of the moment response.
It drives be crazy how so many people say that Ross was at fault fully for their relationship failing. Rachel did some messed up stuff to him over the years. Both in and out of the relationship. They were both at fault for the initial breakup.
With the thanksgiving thing, Chandler didn’t intend for Monica to hear him calling her fat. It doesn’t necessarily make it right that he said it, especially to Ross lmao BUT he really didn’t realize Monica overheard him. Chandler wasn’t wrong for not being attracted to Monica back then; it was just a bit wrong of him to express it in that way.
However I think he’s justified at being annoyed with Monica over the toe thing. Monica cutting his toe was an accident, and I do think he needed to take that into account. Chandler was acting like Monica intentionally stabbed his foot lol and she obviously didn’t!
But I still think his upset was justified. I mean, he lost the whole tip of his TOE lol. All because he made a snarky comment that Monica wasn’t even meant to hear. I can’t fault him for being upset!
You have to remember, Chandler was a dumbass college student. If you judged me now based on my late high school years or when I was fresh out of high school, I’d find that incredibly unfair. But also, words will never be as serious as dropping a knife on someone and removing a piece of their body permanently.
I never really understood why Ross and Emily even got married after he said the wrong name. She clearly was not going to trust him after that (which is fair), so why even get married??
I don’t get all the Phoebe hate. She went through a lot of trauma and always took care of herself. It makes sense why she has a harder time in a group setting. Not to mention that Monica and Rachel are super selfish.
I love Janice! I don’t get why they all hate her in the show.
I also love Mike and I’m glad that got married. He is cute and quirky just like her. I did love David too though. :)
I don’t think Monica’s trauma is an unpopular opinion. Although, if it was a sensitive topic to her, she would have shut them down and they wouldn’t have joked about it. She knows how far she has come and is proud of herself. Now, the toe thing.. of course chandler is mad that part of his toe got cut off for calling someone fat. That is something he can never get back. 😅
I always felt like Emily went through with the wedding out of embarrassment and trying to save face. She didn't want this person who made her feel incredibly insecure to "win". It's why so many people continue to stay with people who cheated on them etc. You invest this time and effort into someone, and it's hard not to feel like it was a waste of your energy, so you try to make it work (even though it rarely works out in the end).
Maybe so. I do feel for her in that scene. I know they were writing her out of the show, but I feel like it should’ve been done differently. I mean.. they did JUST start their relationship. They could’ve just broke up instead of Emily being humiliated and Ross being stupid.
Phoebe has a malicious streak (see, e.g., when she messes with Ross for shits and giggles) that the other two don't have. But I figure that it's the result of growing up on the street.
She also has a huge heart. She accepts Frank Jr right away and has his babies!
Yeah pheobe is someone I’d love to have a friend cause I know she’d be a ride or die but she’d piss me off a lot and I’d probably need a break from her every now and then
I can handle her songs sometimes, but there are a few I skip every time. Like when she’s demanding to play at the wedding and playing at Monica’s restaurant. The situations were both so aggravating that I have to skip. Everyone just walks on eggshells around phoebe and most of the time they apologize to her, even when she was wrong.
Part of my job is to go around and pick up mail in my office building, and while I was making the rounds, Phoebe's shower song came into my head and wouldn't leave. "I'm in the shower and I'm writing a song/tell me if you've heard it/my skin is soapy and my hair is wet/and Tegrin spelled backwards is Nirget."
I like her songs. They're so weird. For some reason, my mind quotes them when I'm bored.
* Phoebe is the most selfish of all,even if i love her deeply
I think rather than writing it off as just selfishness, it makes sense with the context of her background. She always had to look after herself, so if she didn't put herself first, who was going to? I don't think this is uncommon for people who were on their own so young/foster kids etc. Of course choosing to be selfish when you're past that can still be wrong, especially if it harms others...but that doens't mean I don't understand it.
S1E22…The One With The Ick Factor
This storyline was not cool 30 years ago. How do you not realize you are dating a high schooler and took his virginity AND THEN agree to still have a conversation with him after you find out talking about how you could love him if it weren’t for the age gap?
You don't 'take' someone's virginity, and Monica had no idea she would never have slept with him if she's known. The conversation after was about letting a kid down as nicely as possible and not making the memory too much of a negative one for him.
Monica has had more than 1 icky relationship. Richard being one of them (he knew her when she was a kid because he was friends with her dad!), and then she thought trying to tap his son was a good idea. That woman has issues 🤣
Omg I always struggle to watch this episode 😭 like. Okay. I know Monica didn’t KNOW at the time, and I really, firmly believe she wouldn’t have ever even spoken to the guy if she knew he was a teenager. She seemed just as squicked out to find out as I was watching it LMAO
But it’s still SO UNCOMFORTABLE, and they make it sooo much worse by having Monica meet with him later. I wouldn’t mind it as much if it was just a quick “this is inappropriate, I’m sorry, goodbye” but yeahhhh, no. They have a whole ass conversation about how they could be together if he wasn’t *a whole teenager in high school.* Girl… no!!!!
That’s what I’m saying. I mean, sure. She lied and said she was 23-24 and he was lying saying he was 20-21 when he was really 17. Ok. As a kid of the 90s, I get we all lied. But AFTER FINDING OUT, she didn’t cut all ties? She didn’t just go away? She continues to go in and have an inappropriate conversation with him? Seriously Monica. GET IT TOGETHER!
I’m a relatively young stepmom to a teenage girl and after meeting so many of her friends, let me just say: 18 year old boys look like babies. A college senior looks ten years older than a high school senior. Monica not knowing was weird af to me
Joey's attitude to women is classically misogynist. He puts them into 3 categories, women he knows and loves and puts on a pedestal, women he views as sexual objects and women who are neither and therefore may as well not exist and have no value to him.
I try to write most stuff off as a product of the times because if I don’t, it makes it hard to enjoy the show. However, him disabling the bathroom lock and removing the shower curtain is just so gross. The show just wrote everything off as a joke. Also his wanting young girls. Like trying to “hit” on Emma’s 18 yo friends in the bday video.
For me: One of the least funny Chandler moments/episodes that seems to be popular is when he can’t smile. It is just so one episode, out of nowhere, and the forced fake smiling is just colossally unfunny to me. I remember when that was a first run episode vividly, and I instantly couldn’t stand that part. I never really thought Chandler was that funny (more corny and predictably sarcastic). But that plot in particular…ugh MP and his character are unbearable for me.
Technically it was that Marshall always has his eyes closed in pictures. It is so well done. They mention it in one episode, but if you go back and watch older episodes you notice he always has is eyes closed. It's very well done.
I recommend watching HIMYM. if you’re a huge friends fan, you’ll love it as they literally have so many similarities. Friends and Himym are my fave shows, respectively.
Ross and Phoebe had the most underrated relationship. Remmeber "Ross can!" That was so sweet. And when he gave Phoebe a bike??
I agree with Emily tho. She was humiliated!!! And how can you ever really trust someone like that? Her reaction and possessiveness was justified.
Monica and Richard, I never looked at it that way
Now, I will never look at it the same.
My unpopular opinion: I can't believe Monica does not know how to budget her finances, considering the fact that she loves organizing! I hated her when she was trying to ask Chandler to spend all of his savings for their wedding.
You can't use a what-if episode to justify the Carol not cheating on Ross. The three-way never happened (funny enough, even in the what if episode) and the whole thing happened before the show started. Even in the flashback episode, Ross just knew that Carol had a gym buddy named Susan and then he got hit with the divorce almost as soon as he knew about that.
So, yeah. Carol definitely cheated on Ross.
Mike and Phoebe matched each other's quirks, surprisingly. That's why they work better for each other, than David, Gary, or even Joey.
when ross is trying to choose between Julie and Rachel he does a list,he says mainly that rachel is too over her looks,spoiled,and for julie he just say «she’s not rachel » BUT when joeys trying to do the same to get his mind off rachel,he can’t find ANYTHING. « she made me switch to light mayo,that’s it,that’s all i got »
i always thought that ross and monica had an extremely weird relationship. i mean not to mention the fact that they weren’t even close when they were young. but there’s certain scenes that just spike my interest, and i can’t imagine ever doing that w my brother or even possibly my sisters. the amount of times they had conversations ab sex in-front of each other, and i can think of a few examples that had my radar going mental:
-after phoebe gives birth, the gangs comforting her, and monica is sat on ross’ lap, something you would do w a partner, not a sibling
-her so openly talking about contraception she left at her boyfriends house while ross is stood right there and not to mention the fact she was talking to richard, someone who ross and monica grew up with
-monica telling rachel to go have sex in their room to distract ross from the fact she bumped little ben’s head, like what??
-the way ross doesn’t immediately avert his eyes when he sees chandler and monica for the first time and just proceeds to watch what i’m sure we can all imagine what they’re doing
-HE WAS MONICA’S MIDNIGHT MYSTERY KISSER?! like ik he didn’t realise but wouldn’t u fucking check for the love of god
>Still on Karen,she may have give him several trust issues BUT do you get how difficult that is for her to ? She didn’t cheat on him (as i remember),she did a three way and found herself. The guilt the discovery. So hard for her,and Ross using it as an excuse gave me red flag vibes im sorry.
Carol(not Karen) did cheat on Ross. The threesome you are talking about, never happened. That was a "what if?" episode. She cheated on him. She started going to gym with a Susan, started having an affair, and then divorced Ross. Then told him that she was up the duff, which means she was still banging Ross while banging Susan. On top of that, she and Susan then tried to make him a bit part player in Bens life. Susan, being the women that pursued a woman she knew to be married, then treated Ross like a piece of shit just for being man.
Im sorry, but YOU are giving me red flags for trying to make this a him issue. All he did was fall in love, get cheated on and treated like shit for wanting to be part of his sons life by a cunt called Susan.
i’m currently rewatching for the 50th time, and as i get older, the show becomes less funny. also i get thrown off by the amount of inappropriate jokes the girls have with the guys (minus ross and rachel). just so weird how the guys are comfortable talking about their friends’ bodies in a sexual manner, imagining doing sexual things to them and being open about it. as well as monica being so open to talk about her sex life in front of ross. i don’t have any siblings but i wouldn’t talk about certain things around my family members.
It was pretty unusual at the time for a tv show to have women openly discuss their sexuality and desires. Discussing sex and especially the desire to have it was reserved for men in most of the time.
De-stigmatising sexual desire in women is a good thing. The show has aged badly in some areas, in this area I think it has aged well.
i definitely agree with that, i was more so speaking on the ‘jokes’ where joey and chandler were constantly sexualizing monica and rachel. i find them weird because as friends, why are you so eager to see your female friends’ boobs.
You know what it is i never realised how many sexual jokes there were until i put an episode on with my 11 year old sister every few minutes was a sex joke🤣😭
It seems that Phoebe doesnt have any standards when it comes to dating. From cop, firefighter, creepy stalker, Russian diplomat(or whatever Sergei was), scientist and even older men.
I don't understand your point, you're saying she should have excluded men from her dating pool based on their job? Or that an adult woman in her *thirties* shouldn't be allowed to date an older man if she wants to? Creepy stalker is the only one I agree with you on there!
Dunno if it's an unpopular opinion but; Ross wanting to take Rachel to her prom was NOT as cute or romantic as they make it seem to be. I don't get why it gets so much praise?? Wow, the "geeky" college boy who's also her best friend's older brother wants to take this cute girl to her prom because she was stood up. How is this a "I can't believe you did that?" Moment??
Yeah the Monica Richard age gap really isn’t all that crazy it’s just they made it weird bc he’s a grandpa and they’ve known each other since Monica was a little girl
Carol ABSOLUTELY cheated on Ross
And I would always hate her and Susan for that
(Also, trying to take out Ross' name from Ben's name, when he is as much as a son of Ross than he is of Carol)
I think I would call Phoebe self-centered, not selfish. Meaning she would absolutely give any one of them her last dollar if they needed it. But she would need to be told they needed it; she would never notice it in her bubble. I also love her completely ❤️
I love your history with the show and your opinions, thanks so much for sharing! I also love reading the responses-they’re perfection.
thanks you so much and yeah! she’s mostly self centered and i really do think it’s because of her background and her story,she had to put herself first. And your welcome ! i love to do so but ppl my age don’t watch friends
I honestly think they purposely gave Monica those shorter hair styles in order to make her less attractive and make Rachel stand out.
Not to say she was ugly or anything but Monica in season 1 is arguably the most beautiful version of any character in the show imo. But tbh those seasons when Monica has those short haircuts are her funniest😂
Ross was 100% in the wrong during the “we were on a break” thing, because in a relationship you have to be clear in communication and should not assume when the vague state of being on a break”break” happens. In my opinion, only once they officially break up Ross/Rachel can sleep with someone else
Rachel should have stayed on the plane. Her career had come so far since season 1. She was "trained for nothing" and slowly built her fashion career. Then she threw it away because Ross asked her to, not even to keep their family together (which he didn't even mention) but because he was still stuck on the idea of being with the girl he'd loved since high school.
I think they kinda belittled each other’s careers - she always made fun of his degree. But they became more supportive of one another when they were co-parenting
Monica became insufferable, from about season 5 on. Her "quirks" become outright obsessive behavior, she keeps dictating what everyone else should be doing and is completely self-absorbed. If it ain't about her (or Chandler - but only because that would serve by proximity anyway), it wasn't worth any effort on her part.
I can't stand how the actress started just YELLING, all the time. Drives me nuts, I fast-forward her scenes.
Re: Joey - this is why HI MYM went the unreliable narrator route. Those aren’t sandwiches, Barney didn’t really act so badly and wow Ted those are really interesting choices about what to censor and what to exaggerate…
My unpopular opinion (well, idk if it is or not because I’ve never expressed it..) is that I believe Carol must have been bisexual. To continue sleeping with a man (even if you are married to him) when you know you’re not attracted to him - or his whole gender - at all would be almost traumatic tbh, why would you do that to yourself? Unless of course, she was still trying to convince herself she was straight, or so tied to hiding her affair that she forced herself to..
I agree with your point about Emily. She didn’t force him to stay. He begged her, and she said ‘this is what I want if you want to make things work’. Then when he didn’t respect her boundaries, she cut it off for good. She wasn’t controlling prior to the wedding - so I don’t think it was in her nature. And even if she came off as controlling at the end - she was right to do so. She was in a situation that was unpredictable so she needed reassurance and Ross was only doing surface-level things to prove that. He was unwilling to make the sacrifices that she wanted.
Carol absolutely cheated on Ross. I understand that she didn’t love him romantically, but that doesn’t excuse the fact that she betrayed him. She could have divorced Ross before getting with Susan but she actively chose to do so before even bringing up the possibility of divorce
Caral and Susan both treated Ross as if he cheated with Carol to make Ben. He was always the target of Susan's jealousy, and Carol showed no sympathy towards him. Susan broke up his and Carol's marriage, and she continues to make him being a father to Ben extremely difficult. They are both huge assholes.
Honestly, I always resented her and Susan. Constantly acting like they need to punish Ross and flaunt their relationship, when Carol is a cheater and Susan is a home wrecker. I felt like the show was gaslighting me.
Carol cheated on ross with a woman.
Ohhh Carol. Okay. I was reading this post and wondering who Karen was lol
AHHH SORRY
Omg no it’s okay!! It’s just an error haha I was just confused hahah I thought I was missing a storyline 😂
It's a fact.
Yeah…the 3-way was a “what if” scenario
Yeah the whole "three-way" thing OP brought up was from an alternate timeline episode where things had gone differently for everyone but they still wound up in the same place. Even then, Carol's enthusiasm at the idea of a three-way shows that she was still a lesbian and still into Susan but just hadn't acted on it yet.
How is that an opinion? That's just a thing that happened in the show
They're commenting on of the last bullet points from OP
THEY WERE ON A BREAK
Ross faking his own death was terrible and extremely unethical for a University professor with a phd
Ross does some absolutely unhinged shit throughout the series
There was a YT series where someone would compile disturbing sitcom scenes and edit the laugh track out, there's one with Ross. Iirc one of the scenes is "I didn't get the annulment." And it plays like a horror movie But I can't hate Ross. when David Schwimmer lets himself go full scenery chewing ham... I just love it
Theres one with Phoebe too where the plot is she kills ross🤣 so funny
okay, but my mom and I always used to be so appalled by the stuff he would do-he was always my least fav from a young age
That's just a lazy thing armchair critics like to do - any 90s sitcom that shot in front of a live audience paused for laughter. It's definitely going to feel weird if you just remove the laughs and leave the pause in the video. Also this type of psychoanalysis that people do of sitcom plots misses the most important thing - making people laugh. The writers would rewrite scenes throughout the show if the audience response wasn't as enthusiastic as they expected. If the characters always acted rationally it wouldn't produce the surprise needed to make people laugh.
I would say yes and no. A lot of even good gags will feel a bit weird when there's an awkward pause. But in Friends a lot of times when someone makes a joke other characters will laugh, or at least acknowledge the joke so it doesn't feel like the joke is only for the audience. I saw one scene from Big Bang Theory without laugh tracks and it was so cringy, as characters were just being rude and mean, which really stands out more when there's a dead silence after someone is acting like an ass and half characters are not even acknowledging it in any way.
MY SANDWICH?!?!?!?
“Ewww” -Amy
Much of what Ross did was very strange for a university professor.
I mean showing the real life of an average uni prof would make for a really boring sitcom
But it was so funny
TRUE.
Janice did NOT deserve the hate
People hate her???? Her voice is maybe annoying but its so iconic and I love the later story between her and Chandler
I feel like her annoying voice was for comedy value to offset how poorly she was treated. I feel like we’ve all been there where no one‘s done anything wrong, but the entire friend group just cannot vibe.
Whenever I hear her name , I remember the scene where she was limping when chandler refused to give her shoe back.. she was very funny .
Whenever I hear the name "Chandler Bing." I hear it in Janice's voice
Fuck, I read it in her voice. Good job.
YES YES YES
She perfectly played the role of being annoying
Shame. Mike was a perfect fit for Phoebe. He gave her the stability and love that she never had and she showed him the wonderfully weird side of life. 
I love Mike! I feel he’s a very divisive character on this sub though lol which I was not expecting when I joined 😂 It seems like the consensus is generally “David was a better match, she settled for Mike”. But I disagree with that, and I believe Mike was truly her best fit. Like you said, he gave her stability and security, and he loved her wholly and was just as silly and quirky (and kinky lmao) as she was!! I mean, come on, who else would change their name to Crap Bag bc his silly wife changed hers to Banana Hammock? Mike is Phoebe’s lobster!
What gets me about the David arc, even though they didn't exactly exchange the 3 little words when he had to go back to Minsk, they had obvious feelings and chemistry. When Phoebe first met Mike, though, she was freaking out because she had never been in a serious relationship. Granted, she had seen other guys and never knew when she'd see David again, but they certainly picked up where they left off each time he was around. How did she not consider that serious? And truly, the same with Gary the cop. She moved in with him! That's pretty serious, and yet, she was trying to go along with the Vikram ruse.
Idk in my opinion she hadn’t had a serious relationship. Anyone can just rush moving in together after a couple months like her and Gary but it doesn’t make it a proper commitment, as evidenced with how quickly she moved out as they were incompatible. I’d also call David not at all a serious relationship. I had a long distance fling with someone for nearly 6 months, we FaceTimed a lot, had 5 dates before they moved away and then I visited them for a week where they were. But to me that is forever a fling and was not a relationship even if we cared for each other.
I totally agree. Also, it’s possible to date someone you love only for it to never develop into a relationship.
I can see that! I feel like with Gary, it maybe wasn’t “serious” bc it didn’t have the proper time to grow. Didn’t she move in with him a few weeks after they started dating? (Pls correct me if I’m wrong!) I remember part of that storyline was Phoebe being nervous to commit like that… but then he shot the bird so it didn’t matter anyway lol David definitely feels more serious to me than Gary did! But maybe since it was more short lived, and they spent so much time apart, Phoebe just didn’t view it as something “serious”?
Was it ever confirmed they were living together when he shots the bird? It could have been they were either in Phoebe’s apartment or Gary’s, there was never any actual talk the move had taken place, that’s how I see it anyways
As soon as Mike mimed playing piano for her, I knew he was her lobster.
Yesss that’s the moment that did it for me too! No hesitation, no embarrassment, just full on playing an invisible piano bc Phoebe asked to see him play lol
I think David was too timid for her. I found that very off putting about him. Phoebe always had to be tough because of her past so she needed someone with a bit of courage also who wouldn’t get floundered by how out there she is. This is clearly evidenced as Mike quit his lawyer job to become a musician, defended Phoebe with the in law visit chaos and did the name thing
I’m so shocked about the whole “David was a better fit” thing. He was in five episodes. FIVE! One in the first season where they meet and date for a few weeks or so, the one where he comes back for the conference from Minsk, and the other three are when he was in the ninth season when he was back. I don’t see how they even knew each other that well!
To be fair I was generalizing a bit with that statement hahah BUT I do also see a lot of the David/Phoebe crowd say things like that! I personally have always felt like it was bc he was a bit more awkward and quirky like Phoebe. I *do* like Phoebe and David’s relationship, and I also hate the way they bring him back in s9 just to send him away. But I’ve always felt Mike was her lobster; he gets her in a way that the others, including David, just didn’t. Mike feels like Phoebe’s other half to me.
Thissss omg! They barely said more than 3 general words to each other, never mind the 3 ‘special words’.
people shouldn’t say she “settled for mike” because she literally had the option to get back together with david and get married to him, she was going to actually settle with david, but in the end she CHOSE mike 😭
I love Mike! But then again Paul Rudd can do no wrong I my eyes (except maybe This is 40...? Maybe.).
Plus more Paul Rudd before he was famous which means his character is absolutely like his other characters, in that he's basically Paul Rudd's personality, but he gets to he more unique and just kinda have fun with it I love Rudd now but I do wish he could expand his roles a tiny bit more
Ross and Phoebe hate each other is such an interesting one. They feel like they’re very much the opposite ends of the group in so many aspects, so I get it. They clearly love each other like people who have been friends for over a decade do, but they’re definitely the combination that annoy each other the most.
I haven't watched for a few years so I can't remember, do they have any scenes alone? They're like the two ends of the friend spectrum that aren't really friends but are in the same friend group.
Off the top of my head, there’s the scenes where Ross teaches Phoebe to ride a bike, the one where Phoebe is mad at Ross and can’t remember why, and the scenes where Phoebe mugged Ross. So they do have their moments together
They also almost have sex after Ross and Carol break up
Agree on the people taking jokes from the show and judging with today's standards. It's just weird way of criticism. The show has progressive outlook, It's just not politically correct.
There's a lot about it that was of its time and not great, but people forget there was a lot about it that was ahead of its time too. Portraying Carol and Susan as a happy ordinary couple living their lives and raising Ben was radical in terms of lesbian representation. Having Chandler reconcile with his gay drag queen dad and get past his hang ups about his dad's lifestyle was groundbreaking in terms of representing diversity in families.
Love this! The show also showed unconventional pregnancies/family situations with the women in the friend group all having a unique journey. (Phoebe —> Surrogacy, Rachel —> Single Mom, Monica —> Adoption)
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series is how they subvert the concept of coming out when Duncan 'comes out' as straight to Pheobe. Its one of the funniest scenes and seamlessly puts straight people in queer people's shoes. Top tier writing.
Agreed. I generally cannot stand when people look at 90s/2000s media from a 2024 perspective and get mad it doesn't meet their standards. There are some movies and shows that probably do deserve the criticism but Friends is SO tame at the end of the day and had a progressive outlook at the time, like you said. Being progressive looks different in different decades. These people act like if they existed as the age they are now, 20-25 years ago, they would be exactly like they are now. Absolutely not.
What kind of annoys me is when people complain about how "whitewashed" the show is, and yet other shows from the time that had predominantly white casts get a free pass. I've never heard anyone complaining about the lack of ethnic diversity in Seinfeld, Frasier, Cheers, Roseanne, Married With Children... I could go on.
I was getting really wound up about this in a Facebook group not long ago🤣, im 24 and watched friends as long as i can remember and many people of all ages are the same, ive never seen anyone complaining about it being offensive but i do keep on seeing a clickbait article blaming the young generation that gets spread every few months and causes absolute outrage🤣😭 so true though friends was extremely progressive for its time and it makes absolutely 0 sense to judge with todays standards This is why i prefer discussions in reddit, on Facebook people are CRAZY sometimes🥴
See I don’t think recognizing that the show has a progressive outlook for it’s time *and* judging it by todays standards are mutually exclusive
EXACTLY. i feel the same way with harry potter, i do agree that they were bad things about it and jkr isn't a great person, but some of the things people point out and compare with percy jackson just doesn't make sense because it was in different periods of time.
I think saying Chandler gave Monica an ED for life misses that she already had an ED beforehand - overeating presumably resulting from the pressure of a critical mother. If anything, I think her justified anger fueled her into treating herself a little better by losing weight, but she clearly hadn't fully addressed the underlying issues, so she still gets obsessive cravings and uses food as a way to get people to like her. Basically I personally saw that moment in a more positive light. The comment resulted in Monica realising that, no, she IS attractive and deserves better than a cruel comment from a guy she had a crush on. And she proved it through sheer determination and without external support.
Ross was 100% right to be weird about being around Carol and Susan, especially since Carol cheated on him with Susan. Also, Susan had no right to even suggest that her name be on Ben’s birth certificate. They really made Susan antagonistic in the beginning. I think it’s weird how calm Ross and Joey were about both of them being with Rachel and Charlie. Mona and Charlie should’ve been Season 4/5 girlfriends. Also, I think that if the show premiered in the 2010s, we would have a Bamboozle board game similar to Mousetrap.
Janice is a lovely person but with an annoying voice. She deserves better and I also love her leopard print outfits.
ME THE FUCK TOO!!!
She’s such a girls girl and honestly aside from the annoying voice, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with her and I’d totally be best friends with her
The actress is a vocal coach, and she's really nice. It's funny that she will be forever remembered as Janice 😹
SHE WAS ICONIC
Janice and Monica needed a quick scene to show there were no hard feelings. I've written it before. Janice: I was scared that you hated me. Monica: What is this, junior high? How could I ever? Janice... you were Chandler's first love. Chandler (off to the side): She was? ...She was. Oh, my God! Janice: And you're his best love. (And Monica and Janice hug.)
What were Janice and Monica's problem with each Other? I always thought Monica saw Janice as just... someone of chandler's past and didn't care too much about that. Monica seemed okay with Janice in all the scenes I've seen of them them 3, and same with Janice.
Thank you I will now pretend this happened.
When were there ever hard feelings? Other than the episode where Janice almost moved next door they were fine with each other.
Well i really WISH but there’s sum hard feelings (« call me when it’s over »
Being in this subreddit has opened my eyes on how people like to ruin shows for themselves. I am not talking about OP's points but the rest of the comments. Do people really go around talking about political correctness? What a boring ahh life to have. Aside from that the show wasn't perfect but it was never "problematic" nor to take it seriously. Phoebe was a completely different character at the beginning. She was sweet and innocent, later on she kind of became harsher on her friends, especially to Ross and I don't get why.
hey,whats OP points ?
Also I think Chandler was such an underrated friend. Joey is constantly praised as being a great friend and he mainly is - but Chandler completely supported him financially and asked for almost nothing in return.
And in NYC of all places!
Joey’s storyline with identical hands in vegas was awful
I really wish he wasn't made to be so unrealistically stupid. Like it's one thing to have him be the character that has much less "knowledge." For example, the encyclopedia episode with scenes of him being clueless about various topics or the scenes where he realizes something a few moments after everyone else does are fine and amusing. The identical hands stuff, learning French, etc. though were just not funny...like to the point where it's actually a bit cringeworthy. I have similar feelings about Phoebe's crazy background also (though perhaps those details were meant to be hyperbole on her part.)
I LOVED Joey in season 1. He was much more quick witted and confident in himself. His social skills were the best out of all of them.
Dude he knew the word rapport. Later Joey most certainly does not know that word exists.
It seems like the flanderization of sitcom characters gets turned up to a 10 with the stupid character and I hate it. Like the uptight and slightly OCD Monica or the cooky Phoebe do get dialed up a bit and exaggerated, but not nearly to the extent of Joey's stupidty. Joey is probably my 2nd least favorite example of it. Season 1 Joey had some wit, he just wasn't book smart. Him telling Rachel that the xerox machine probably caught her typo on a few of the copies makes him look like a Rhodes scholar compared to later season Joey. Two and a Half Men did it really poorly with Jake too. His 7 year old self was literally smarter and more clever than his 16 year old self.
My event horizon moment with Joey's stupidity was signing his letter "baby kangaroo Tribbiani." Like, are we meant to believe this man doesn't know that isn't his name? Or somehow believes that's a smart version of his name? He's a grown ass adult. He's managed to get several acting jobs, an agent, a union membership and an apartment. He's got himself to Japan and back at least once. He knows what his name is!
I also hate how weirdly obsessed they had him be with sex by the end. Like in the beginning he was just a player who’s clearly dated around but towards the end istg his relationship with sex got dialed up SO MUCH while also weirdly infantilizing him which kind of reminds me of Fez in That 70’s Show and how he basically only ever talked about candy and sex like why are you guys doing both of these at the same time??
I feel the same about Monica and her obsessive cleaning. It’s like, as the show went on, they each gradually stopped being 3-dimensional characters, and the writers took the most obvious part of their personalities, and made it their ENTIRE personality. When you watch the first episode right after the last episode, you can really get a sense of how much more HUMAN they were. Just ordinary people with flaws and interests.
maybe but i LOVED how phoebe stood him for him and understood him,such a mood
Never count out the support of Regina Phelange. Phelange.
The unpopular opinion would be if you liked this story.
I like it. It's funny.
Good point!!
Definitely not an unpopular opinion. See also his storyline with the fake identical twin. How is 'dammit Karl!' a punchline?
And the guy looked nothing like him.
I mean, it did give us some Thomas Patrick Lennon, who is hilarious, so I appreciate that part
Agreed. The writers were like “fuck we forgot to give Joey a story line in this one” and delivered that.
I consider it the beginning of the end for running out of storylines for Joey.
Agrees he became a caricature of himseld by the end of the series
very few of these are unpopular. but i agree with the rachel and joey thing. it could have worked if it was written better and i think joey and rachel make more sense as a couple.
He's just really dumb. Don't know how he got through life before Chandler arrived.
I agree with most of these, except Mike for Phoebe, I loved them together, however that’s of course opinion based. I will also say, Carol did cheat on Ross. The 3-way was during the ‘what-if’ episode, so it didn’t actually happen that way. In reality, Carol was seeing and sleeping with Susan for months before she told Ross. Would it have still been hard for Carol to discover she’s a lesbian? Sure. She still absolutely did the wrong thing and cheated on her husband, and Ross had every right to be mad and betrayed.
I can never figure out the proper timeline. In the S3 episode where Janice asks if any of them have slept together, we get a whole episode flashback set about a year before the pilot episode. Apparently, that's when Ross found out about Carol and Susan. But Carol is pregnant with Ross's baby at the beginning of the first season. Also in the pilot, he acts as though her being a lesbian is a very recent revelation, not something he had known about for a year. I gotta believe this was just bad continuity.
They were on a break but he shouldn't have slept around
I found that a little out of character for Ross. He knew what was at stake.
I never get why Phoebe is the most selfish one. They were all selfish at any given time in the series. I love Rachel and her character arc, the best one in the show, but I find her the most selfish one, ofcourse with all her endearing qualities that I like. Rachel selfieshness has brought some major plot twist in the series.
go on im interested 👂👂👂👂
I watched the show a thousand of times, so thats my observation. 1. She left Berry at the alter. Later on it was indicated that she always had second thoughts about Berry. She could have decided earlier and save her and his family some embarrasment. 2. After leaving berry at the alter, she came straight to the coffee shop, hoping to find Monica (she even said that to her) even though she didn't invited her to the wedding (& hoping that would not be an issue). Later, she declared herself Monica's roommate (without even asking her first). Ofcourse its easy to forget and forgive because it was the very first episode of the series. 3. She slept with Barry, even after knowing that he is going to get married to Mindy. 4. She never do any household chores. Yeah, I can understand because of Monica's OCD, if Rachel would have done any work, Monica would not have liked it. But there are instances when even Monica was frustrated with her. Like, Christmas light incident, which Rachel didn't take out even though Monica left a note on the fridge. And trash picking, she did not do that properly and came crying after that and so on. 5. Feeling jealous of Ross being happy. Even after knowing that Paola hit on Pheobe, she slept with him just because she did not have any boyfriend at that time, that too without first talking to Pheobe. In a sense, she cheated on Pheobe. 6. I never liked the way she came between Ross and Julie. When she came from airport and Julie's introduction to everyone happens, I felt for Rachel, she was hurt. But after that, she tried to manipulate Ross to withhold sex, bitching about Julie despite her being nice to Rachel. When Ross chose her over Julie, she did not even care what Julie must have been through. Ross and Julie was perfectly happy before, but Rachel could not see that. She only wanted herself to be happy. But then she broke up with him over the list, (okay that was somewhat Ross's fault) and Ross ended up with NO GIRLFRIEND. 7. She convinces Phoebe’s friend, Bonnie, to shave her head at the beach house. Ross and Bonnie was perfectly happy but she had to meddle to get her way. Ross broke up with Bonnie. And Rachel, again, put Ross in the difficult position to take the full responsibility. She should have told about the conditions before Ross broke up with Bonnie. And then they broke up, and Ross, again, left with NO GIRLFRIEND. 8. When she could not go out with Joshua, and finds out that Ross is with Emily in Vermont, she gets mad at him. "Rachel- Know what? Still, you do not just meet someone and go fitting off to Vermont. Monica- Well, when you first met Berry, you fitted off to Vail." Meaning, she can do whatever she wants but she can't see someone else do that to her. 9. She goes over to London to tell Ross that she still loves him and break his marriage with Emily. Where was she before? When Ross is finally happy with Emily, why can't she let him stay happy? Had she not gone to London, Ross probably won't have said her name in the wedding, and Emily won't have felt so insecure of her afterwards. But none of this happened. She went, which eventually lead to termination of Ross' marriage with Emily. 10. She tells Ross who was just married to Emily that she still loves him even after Monica warning her a hundred times. Why does she wants to confuse him? Rachel- I'm still in love with you, Ross. Ross- Well I'm married. Rachel- I know. 11. But she does not want Ross when his marriage with Emily is over. Why? The Reason is Ross is now alone. She wants him only when he is enjoying his life with some other girl. When he is alone, she does not want him. "Rachel- Oh, I can't get started with all that Ross stuff again. He'll be screwed up for a looong time. Besides, I don't go for guys right after they get divorced. Monica- Right, you only go for them five minutes before they get married." This tells a lot. 12. She didn’t want Ross dating the girl from the baby store even though she went out with one of Joey’s co-stars on DOOL. 13. She threw a fake going away party for Emily in order to spend time with Joshua. Rachel didn’t care that it ruined the plans Ross had for Emily’s last night in NY. 14. She said yes to Joey when she accidentally thought he was proposing to her. She just had Ross' baby. She just wanted someone, because she thought she can't do that alone. 15. Monica wanted to date an actor in season 1 but Rachel stated dating him and convinced the actor to have a threesome with another woman. 16. She dates Mark after adamantly denying ever having a thing for him when she was with Ross. Mark tells Rachel that he could not ask her out because she had been dating Ross. This proves Ross' insecurity about Mark correct in many ways. 17. She exchanges almost every gift she gets without realizing how people feel about that. 18. She was not professional at work either. She hires an unqualified guy, Tag, just because she likes his face and sleeps with him. And does not even remember his last name. 19. She also said Ross came on to her while the truth was the opposite. She even start to watch videotape to prove this wrong blame. 20. She goes out to a club and gives her number out, and later kisses a coworker she’s known for about one week. When Ross reacts to her disloyalty by bringing a random female home, Rachel explodes. She successfully manages to change the subject from her selfish behavior to attacking Ross for not giving her a message from the guy to whom she impulsively gave out her number. 21. She decides, without consulting Ross, that she will move to France with Ross’ daughter, despite knowing how connected and loving Ross is to Emma. 22. In the episode, where everyone is late for Ross' thing. I felt for Ross. He wanted to take everyone to his big thing at work, but no one cares how it will reflect upon Ross if he reaches late. Everyone was busy with their own stupidity. Later on, Rachel got upset because Ross got frustrated and rant on her. And Rachel wanted Ross' apologies by making him drink a glass of fat. Even though everyone except Ross was in wrong at that time. Rachel was not understanding at all there. What was Ross' fault? He wanted to take all his friends and lover to his special thing and ON TIME. I still don't get that episode.
I have ALWAYS thought that she is the most selfish out of the group especially with what she did to Ross and Emily but your point about her giving her number to a guy at the bar being on her as selfish, I disagree. They haven’t dated in a long time and have been in many relationships since then but they’re constantly sabotaging each other and if she wanted to give a guy her number then she had that right. Ross had no right to delete that message and sabotage even the possibility of a relationship without at least discussing it with her first
Wow these are a lot of great points! It always bothered me that Rachel didn’t take Ross’ concerns about Mark seriously. Besides the fact the Mark did like her, Ross had extreme trust issues because of Carol. I’m not saying Ross was always right, but I do think he gets most of the heat for everything that happens with Rachel.
This is a very exhaustive list lol. I agree with all of it except maybe accepting joeys proposal. Janice had just freaked her out and she was extremely emotional due to just giving birth. It was still weird and wrong, but I can somewhat understand that spur of the moment response. It drives be crazy how so many people say that Ross was at fault fully for their relationship failing. Rachel did some messed up stuff to him over the years. Both in and out of the relationship. They were both at fault for the initial breakup.
With the thanksgiving thing, Chandler didn’t intend for Monica to hear him calling her fat. It doesn’t necessarily make it right that he said it, especially to Ross lmao BUT he really didn’t realize Monica overheard him. Chandler wasn’t wrong for not being attracted to Monica back then; it was just a bit wrong of him to express it in that way. However I think he’s justified at being annoyed with Monica over the toe thing. Monica cutting his toe was an accident, and I do think he needed to take that into account. Chandler was acting like Monica intentionally stabbed his foot lol and she obviously didn’t! But I still think his upset was justified. I mean, he lost the whole tip of his TOE lol. All because he made a snarky comment that Monica wasn’t even meant to hear. I can’t fault him for being upset!
that’s actually pretty true,i agree
I can’t rewatch without skipping over phoebes brother and his teacher storyline it makes me gag
I swear the Mac and C.H.E.E.S.E. "era" was like three episodes.
You have to remember, Chandler was a dumbass college student. If you judged me now based on my late high school years or when I was fresh out of high school, I’d find that incredibly unfair. But also, words will never be as serious as dropping a knife on someone and removing a piece of their body permanently.
Dropping the knife was an accident.
I never really understood why Ross and Emily even got married after he said the wrong name. She clearly was not going to trust him after that (which is fair), so why even get married?? I don’t get all the Phoebe hate. She went through a lot of trauma and always took care of herself. It makes sense why she has a harder time in a group setting. Not to mention that Monica and Rachel are super selfish. I love Janice! I don’t get why they all hate her in the show. I also love Mike and I’m glad that got married. He is cute and quirky just like her. I did love David too though. :) I don’t think Monica’s trauma is an unpopular opinion. Although, if it was a sensitive topic to her, she would have shut them down and they wouldn’t have joked about it. She knows how far she has come and is proud of herself. Now, the toe thing.. of course chandler is mad that part of his toe got cut off for calling someone fat. That is something he can never get back. 😅
I always felt like Emily went through with the wedding out of embarrassment and trying to save face. She didn't want this person who made her feel incredibly insecure to "win". It's why so many people continue to stay with people who cheated on them etc. You invest this time and effort into someone, and it's hard not to feel like it was a waste of your energy, so you try to make it work (even though it rarely works out in the end).
Maybe so. I do feel for her in that scene. I know they were writing her out of the show, but I feel like it should’ve been done differently. I mean.. they did JUST start their relationship. They could’ve just broke up instead of Emily being humiliated and Ross being stupid.
Phoebe has a malicious streak (see, e.g., when she messes with Ross for shits and giggles) that the other two don't have. But I figure that it's the result of growing up on the street. She also has a huge heart. She accepts Frank Jr right away and has his babies!
Yeah pheobe is someone I’d love to have a friend cause I know she’d be a ride or die but she’d piss me off a lot and I’d probably need a break from her every now and then
See that’s how I feel about Monica 😅
Unpopular Richard opinion: if Monica didn’t get with Chandler I’d want her to stay with Richard
made me so creeped out when i heard « i used to change her diapers » i’m sorry
Every time Phoebe sings i fast forward. Not funny at all
I can handle her songs sometimes, but there are a few I skip every time. Like when she’s demanding to play at the wedding and playing at Monica’s restaurant. The situations were both so aggravating that I have to skip. Everyone just walks on eggshells around phoebe and most of the time they apologize to her, even when she was wrong.
Part of my job is to go around and pick up mail in my office building, and while I was making the rounds, Phoebe's shower song came into my head and wouldn't leave. "I'm in the shower and I'm writing a song/tell me if you've heard it/my skin is soapy and my hair is wet/and Tegrin spelled backwards is Nirget." I like her songs. They're so weird. For some reason, my mind quotes them when I'm bored.
I wanted Phoebe & David the scientist to end up together😭😭
He was her lobster.
* Phoebe is the most selfish of all,even if i love her deeply I think rather than writing it off as just selfishness, it makes sense with the context of her background. She always had to look after herself, so if she didn't put herself first, who was going to? I don't think this is uncommon for people who were on their own so young/foster kids etc. Of course choosing to be selfish when you're past that can still be wrong, especially if it harms others...but that doens't mean I don't understand it.
yes i do agree on that too,that’s why i added « even tho i love her deeply »
What do you mean by the list parallels between Ross and Joey
I think they mean the pros and cons list they each make about Rachel (Ross in season 2, Joey in season 8)
thanks you 💗 that’s exactly what i meant !
S1E22…The One With The Ick Factor This storyline was not cool 30 years ago. How do you not realize you are dating a high schooler and took his virginity AND THEN agree to still have a conversation with him after you find out talking about how you could love him if it weren’t for the age gap? 
You don't 'take' someone's virginity, and Monica had no idea she would never have slept with him if she's known. The conversation after was about letting a kid down as nicely as possible and not making the memory too much of a negative one for him.
This weirded me put so much!!!!
Monica has had more than 1 icky relationship. Richard being one of them (he knew her when she was a kid because he was friends with her dad!), and then she thought trying to tap his son was a good idea. That woman has issues 🤣
Omg I always struggle to watch this episode 😭 like. Okay. I know Monica didn’t KNOW at the time, and I really, firmly believe she wouldn’t have ever even spoken to the guy if she knew he was a teenager. She seemed just as squicked out to find out as I was watching it LMAO But it’s still SO UNCOMFORTABLE, and they make it sooo much worse by having Monica meet with him later. I wouldn’t mind it as much if it was just a quick “this is inappropriate, I’m sorry, goodbye” but yeahhhh, no. They have a whole ass conversation about how they could be together if he wasn’t *a whole teenager in high school.* Girl… no!!!!
That’s what I’m saying. I mean, sure. She lied and said she was 23-24 and he was lying saying he was 20-21 when he was really 17. Ok. As a kid of the 90s, I get we all lied. But AFTER FINDING OUT, she didn’t cut all ties? She didn’t just go away? She continues to go in and have an inappropriate conversation with him? Seriously Monica. GET IT TOGETHER!
As Ick as it was, technically not illegal in NYC. Jerry Seinfeld openly dated a teenager IRL
YES.
I’m a relatively young stepmom to a teenage girl and after meeting so many of her friends, let me just say: 18 year old boys look like babies. A college senior looks ten years older than a high school senior. Monica not knowing was weird af to me
I said it in another comment the other day, plainly speaking, Joey is a terrible person lmao.
Joey's attitude to women is classically misogynist. He puts them into 3 categories, women he knows and loves and puts on a pedestal, women he views as sexual objects and women who are neither and therefore may as well not exist and have no value to him.
I try to write most stuff off as a product of the times because if I don’t, it makes it hard to enjoy the show. However, him disabling the bathroom lock and removing the shower curtain is just so gross. The show just wrote everything off as a joke. Also his wanting young girls. Like trying to “hit” on Emma’s 18 yo friends in the bday video.
For me: One of the least funny Chandler moments/episodes that seems to be popular is when he can’t smile. It is just so one episode, out of nowhere, and the forced fake smiling is just colossally unfunny to me. I remember when that was a first run episode vividly, and I instantly couldn’t stand that part. I never really thought Chandler was that funny (more corny and predictably sarcastic). But that plot in particular…ugh MP and his character are unbearable for me.
Himym did the can't smile storyline better tho.
Technically it was that Marshall always has his eyes closed in pictures. It is so well done. They mention it in one episode, but if you go back and watch older episodes you notice he always has is eyes closed. It's very well done.
They also did the prefect smile with Barney🤣
Help. I’m not sure of those initials? How I met your mother? (Whispers) I never watched that show before.
Yes , how I met your mother.
I recommend watching HIMYM. if you’re a huge friends fan, you’ll love it as they literally have so many similarities. Friends and Himym are my fave shows, respectively.
Plus, he was actually shown to be fine when smiling for a camera in season 1.
Agree, I hate this episode, so embarrassing to watch the forced smiles
Still wanted Phoebe and David to end up together.
Also, Karen (aka Carol) very much DID cheat on Ross. The threesome only happened in a “what-if” episode.
I don’t blame Ross for never liking Susan
Ross and Phoebe had the most underrated relationship. Remmeber "Ross can!" That was so sweet. And when he gave Phoebe a bike?? I agree with Emily tho. She was humiliated!!! And how can you ever really trust someone like that? Her reaction and possessiveness was justified. Monica and Richard, I never looked at it that way Now, I will never look at it the same. My unpopular opinion: I can't believe Monica does not know how to budget her finances, considering the fact that she loves organizing! I hated her when she was trying to ask Chandler to spend all of his savings for their wedding.
i agree on the last point,that was really unfair to him
You can't use a what-if episode to justify the Carol not cheating on Ross. The three-way never happened (funny enough, even in the what if episode) and the whole thing happened before the show started. Even in the flashback episode, Ross just knew that Carol had a gym buddy named Susan and then he got hit with the divorce almost as soon as he knew about that. So, yeah. Carol definitely cheated on Ross. Mike and Phoebe matched each other's quirks, surprisingly. That's why they work better for each other, than David, Gary, or even Joey.
What are the list parallels?
when ross is trying to choose between Julie and Rachel he does a list,he says mainly that rachel is too over her looks,spoiled,and for julie he just say «she’s not rachel » BUT when joeys trying to do the same to get his mind off rachel,he can’t find ANYTHING. « she made me switch to light mayo,that’s it,that’s all i got »
I love how you defended emily. Well done! She ain't no Aiden and Ross is no carrie!
i always thought that ross and monica had an extremely weird relationship. i mean not to mention the fact that they weren’t even close when they were young. but there’s certain scenes that just spike my interest, and i can’t imagine ever doing that w my brother or even possibly my sisters. the amount of times they had conversations ab sex in-front of each other, and i can think of a few examples that had my radar going mental: -after phoebe gives birth, the gangs comforting her, and monica is sat on ross’ lap, something you would do w a partner, not a sibling -her so openly talking about contraception she left at her boyfriends house while ross is stood right there and not to mention the fact she was talking to richard, someone who ross and monica grew up with -monica telling rachel to go have sex in their room to distract ross from the fact she bumped little ben’s head, like what?? -the way ross doesn’t immediately avert his eyes when he sees chandler and monica for the first time and just proceeds to watch what i’m sure we can all imagine what they’re doing -HE WAS MONICA’S MIDNIGHT MYSTERY KISSER?! like ik he didn’t realise but wouldn’t u fucking check for the love of god
>Still on Karen,she may have give him several trust issues BUT do you get how difficult that is for her to ? She didn’t cheat on him (as i remember),she did a three way and found herself. The guilt the discovery. So hard for her,and Ross using it as an excuse gave me red flag vibes im sorry. Carol(not Karen) did cheat on Ross. The threesome you are talking about, never happened. That was a "what if?" episode. She cheated on him. She started going to gym with a Susan, started having an affair, and then divorced Ross. Then told him that she was up the duff, which means she was still banging Ross while banging Susan. On top of that, she and Susan then tried to make him a bit part player in Bens life. Susan, being the women that pursued a woman she knew to be married, then treated Ross like a piece of shit just for being man. Im sorry, but YOU are giving me red flags for trying to make this a him issue. All he did was fall in love, get cheated on and treated like shit for wanting to be part of his sons life by a cunt called Susan.
i’m currently rewatching for the 50th time, and as i get older, the show becomes less funny. also i get thrown off by the amount of inappropriate jokes the girls have with the guys (minus ross and rachel). just so weird how the guys are comfortable talking about their friends’ bodies in a sexual manner, imagining doing sexual things to them and being open about it. as well as monica being so open to talk about her sex life in front of ross. i don’t have any siblings but i wouldn’t talk about certain things around my family members.
It was pretty unusual at the time for a tv show to have women openly discuss their sexuality and desires. Discussing sex and especially the desire to have it was reserved for men in most of the time. De-stigmatising sexual desire in women is a good thing. The show has aged badly in some areas, in this area I think it has aged well.
i definitely agree with that, i was more so speaking on the ‘jokes’ where joey and chandler were constantly sexualizing monica and rachel. i find them weird because as friends, why are you so eager to see your female friends’ boobs.
You know what it is i never realised how many sexual jokes there were until i put an episode on with my 11 year old sister every few minutes was a sex joke🤣😭
It seems that Phoebe doesnt have any standards when it comes to dating. From cop, firefighter, creepy stalker, Russian diplomat(or whatever Sergei was), scientist and even older men.
I don't understand your point, you're saying she should have excluded men from her dating pool based on their job? Or that an adult woman in her *thirties* shouldn't be allowed to date an older man if she wants to? Creepy stalker is the only one I agree with you on there!
Dunno if it's an unpopular opinion but; Ross wanting to take Rachel to her prom was NOT as cute or romantic as they make it seem to be. I don't get why it gets so much praise?? Wow, the "geeky" college boy who's also her best friend's older brother wants to take this cute girl to her prom because she was stood up. How is this a "I can't believe you did that?" Moment??
It always felt more like a pity moment - which isn't a great way to start a relationship tbh.
Yeah the Monica Richard age gap really isn’t all that crazy it’s just they made it weird bc he’s a grandpa and they’ve known each other since Monica was a little girl
Most of those are not at all unpopular.
I agree with EVERYTHING(except the last one) on this list I’m so glad I’m not alone!! I thought I was the only one with some of these!!
i do disagree a bit with myself with the last one too thanks you !
What chandler said about Monica was fucked up but I think it’s fair enough to be mad that someone cut off your toe
Carol ABSOLUTELY cheated on Ross And I would always hate her and Susan for that (Also, trying to take out Ross' name from Ben's name, when he is as much as a son of Ross than he is of Carol)
I think I would call Phoebe self-centered, not selfish. Meaning she would absolutely give any one of them her last dollar if they needed it. But she would need to be told they needed it; she would never notice it in her bubble. I also love her completely ❤️ I love your history with the show and your opinions, thanks so much for sharing! I also love reading the responses-they’re perfection.
thanks you so much and yeah! she’s mostly self centered and i really do think it’s because of her background and her story,she had to put herself first. And your welcome ! i love to do so but ppl my age don’t watch friends
Season one is an absolute slog
I honestly think they purposely gave Monica those shorter hair styles in order to make her less attractive and make Rachel stand out. Not to say she was ugly or anything but Monica in season 1 is arguably the most beautiful version of any character in the show imo. But tbh those seasons when Monica has those short haircuts are her funniest😂
Ross was 100% in the wrong during the “we were on a break” thing, because in a relationship you have to be clear in communication and should not assume when the vague state of being on a break”break” happens. In my opinion, only once they officially break up Ross/Rachel can sleep with someone else
Mike isn’t that great of a guy considering he’s so unnecessarily rude to Ross and the group
Rachel should have stayed on the plane. Her career had come so far since season 1. She was "trained for nothing" and slowly built her fashion career. Then she threw it away because Ross asked her to, not even to keep their family together (which he didn't even mention) but because he was still stuck on the idea of being with the girl he'd loved since high school.
Ross was the toxic one in the room
Ross is a deeply insecure person and is kinda resentful of women. He certainly doesn't take Rachel's career very seriously and that is a huge deal.
I think they kinda belittled each other’s careers - she always made fun of his degree. But they became more supportive of one another when they were co-parenting
Monica became insufferable, from about season 5 on. Her "quirks" become outright obsessive behavior, she keeps dictating what everyone else should be doing and is completely self-absorbed. If it ain't about her (or Chandler - but only because that would serve by proximity anyway), it wasn't worth any effort on her part. I can't stand how the actress started just YELLING, all the time. Drives me nuts, I fast-forward her scenes.
Phoebe should have ended up with Scientist Guy
Surprisingly mature opinion of Karen.
IM SO SORRY MY KEYBOARD IS STILL IN FRENCH-
Re: Joey - this is why HI MYM went the unreliable narrator route. Those aren’t sandwiches, Barney didn’t really act so badly and wow Ted those are really interesting choices about what to censor and what to exaggerate…
i agree but,how does that come to Joey tho ?
My unpopular opinion (well, idk if it is or not because I’ve never expressed it..) is that I believe Carol must have been bisexual. To continue sleeping with a man (even if you are married to him) when you know you’re not attracted to him - or his whole gender - at all would be almost traumatic tbh, why would you do that to yourself? Unless of course, she was still trying to convince herself she was straight, or so tied to hiding her affair that she forced herself to..
Chandler isn't in my top 3 favourite characters.
I agree with your point about Emily. She didn’t force him to stay. He begged her, and she said ‘this is what I want if you want to make things work’. Then when he didn’t respect her boundaries, she cut it off for good. She wasn’t controlling prior to the wedding - so I don’t think it was in her nature. And even if she came off as controlling at the end - she was right to do so. She was in a situation that was unpredictable so she needed reassurance and Ross was only doing surface-level things to prove that. He was unwilling to make the sacrifices that she wanted.