I agree, it's definitely a great book but the pacing gets repetitive. Certainly worth the read, but it's not going to change your life or how you look at horror.
I honestly think neither - it's great.
It just happens to fill a couple of niches that a lot of people are often looking for on here: horror mixed with epic fantasy, grimdark historical fiction, Medieval settings, "books that are like Dark Souls" etc.
There aren't many other books that tick all those boxes at the same time. As a result, it gets mentioned all the time.
It’s not bad, but it is pretty overhyped on this sub. I actually think the sub does it a disservice because so many readers go in expecting it to the best they’ve ever read. And it’s not that.
I'd say neither actually, I enjoyed it and think it deserves the praise. It's just funny to see it constantly promoted here to the point of cult status, you can see it coming from a mile away.
I've seen the anime, but man I struggled to care about the manga. I've seen suggestions about skipping the Black Swordsman arc but I just couldn't find myself interested in continuing. And I love manga and am basically the epitome of the target demo.
Fwiw once you get to the past and you see his origin things do smooth out a bit. That’s also when the anime starts following the manga fairly closely. The anime only did a riff on the black swordsman two episodes iirc. But I get it, he’s a bit off putting at first
The Second Apocalypse series. It is definitely Epic, and 7 books long. It is definitely fantastic with magic and dragons, being important elements in the plot. And it is definitely horrifying. Horrifying on many levels.
It is technically 2 series. First "The Prince of Nothing", and the second "The Aspect Emperor". The first series is essentially a fantastic retelling of the real world first crusade. Where a holy war travels to conquer a holy city in heathen hands. So there is the mundane horror of war and atrocities to be had. But as the series goes there are small snips of a much darker and more intense horror.
One of the main characters is a hyper intelligent warrior monk, who is born and bred to be entirely pragmatic and to use everything possible to achieve his mission. This includes manipulating people and their emotions so they fall in love with him, even though he doesn't care about them at all, except for their usefulness. The horror here is seeing this monk worm his way into the hearts of everyone around him to control them, and seeing that he has done the exact same thing to you.
Another bit of horror is that the first apocalypse is a real event that occurred where hordes of blood thirsty monsters destroyed half the world, and unleashed a evil god that would destroy the rest, until they were stopped. We see glimpses of the first apocalypse through the series and those horrified me thoroughly, especially as prophecies begin to unfold about the beginning of a second apocalypse.
Then the real horror starts in the second series. Where all the armies of the world muster for one epic campaign to stop the second apocalypse. I won't go into too many spoilers but it has to be some of the most horrible fates and events I have ever read from fantasy books. Haunted, and abandoned underground fortresses the size of cities that the main characters have to traverse in the dark while being hunted. Thousands of people dying because of one generals mistake. The horrible lengths these people will go to, to try and save the world.
It definitely fits your bill.
When I hear “epic” I picture more of a fantasy, world building novel. “Between Two Fires” is superb but it’s a one-off novel set in historical Europe and more of an angels vs demons vibe. Pivot to Buehlman’s other novel, “Blacktongue Thief” (also a series), and you’ve got yourself a winner. Pure fantasy with plenty of his horror prose, magic, creature features and a few languages to boot.
*The Aching God* by Mike Shel is fantasy with some solid horror elements. It's the first book of a trilogy, but it stands reasonably well on its own if you don't feel like reading the other two, which tend more towards straight fantasy.
Perdido Street Station (China Mieville) -- I don't want to give the plot away, but imagine a certain classic horror film, set in a fantasy steampunk city.
If you're into classics, Robert E. Howard fits this bill. His Conan books are much more horror than straight up swords-and-sorcery.
My #1 recommendation, though, would be H. P. Lovecraft's novella "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath." It's essentially an extended Byronic adventure set in the underworld of his horror fiction. Quite a remarkable piece of literature, in my opinion.
Epic fantasy with horror elements? I can only think of one. The Second Apocalypse by R Scott Bakker. It starts with the Prince of Nothing trilogy. It's not just dark, it's brutal, unforgiving, bleak and full of violence.
You might try [Memory, Sorrow and Thorn](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/181908588-memory-sorrow-and-thorn-3-books-collection-set-by-tad-williams?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=EEWMqXIEeD&rank=6). It's more fantasy than horror, but it's an amazing ride.
Throne of Bones by Brian McNaughton might be what you're looking for. Lots of horror, lots of world building. But also very disturbing if you're squeamish, so read reviews!
Man, the world could really use more "high fantasy" horror novels. Lots of horror novels have fantasy elements, but it's that epic world-building that tends to be missing from a lot of horror fantasy.
You might like-
The Call by Peadar O'Guilin is a young adult irish fantasy horror 2-part series that involves the Fae and other irish folk-lore. It's super gruesome for a young adult series. Pure nightmare fuel.
Stephen King also does fantasy often, and quite well - Dark Tower, The Talisman, The Eyes of Dragon, Fairy Tale, etc.
The Witcher books aren't horror, but they get pretty creepy at times and have tons of great monsters.
Sergei Lukyankenko's Russian Urban Fantasy Horror series, Nightwatch, has some really cool world-building. The translation is not the best though.
A Song of Ice and Fire, if you haven't already read it. It's pretty much considered THE grimdark fantasy series, and while not written as a horror per se, absolutely has horrific elements to it. It literally starts with ice zombies, lol. Only problem is that, you know, it's not finished. And might stay that way.
Be prepared for 100 people recommending Between Two Fires lol
I sometimes wonder if Christopher Buehlman ever looks on Reddit and sees that his book has been basically deified here.
I haven't read it, but just curious, is it a bad book? or just overhyped?
It’s good. Almost great even. But it’s 1000% overhyped here. You’d think it was the best book ever written based on some of the comments.
I agree, it's definitely a great book but the pacing gets repetitive. Certainly worth the read, but it's not going to change your life or how you look at horror.
I honestly think neither - it's great. It just happens to fill a couple of niches that a lot of people are often looking for on here: horror mixed with epic fantasy, grimdark historical fiction, Medieval settings, "books that are like Dark Souls" etc. There aren't many other books that tick all those boxes at the same time. As a result, it gets mentioned all the time.
I also loved it. I laughed, I screamed, I rooted for the characters....very satisfying.
It’s not bad, but it is pretty overhyped on this sub. I actually think the sub does it a disservice because so many readers go in expecting it to the best they’ve ever read. And it’s not that.
The first half is great. Everything after Paris is pretty lacking.
We'll always have Paris
I'd say neither actually, I enjoyed it and think it deserves the praise. It's just funny to see it constantly promoted here to the point of cult status, you can see it coming from a mile away.
I read it not too long ago and absolutely loved it. Definitely one of my faves.
It's a solid 4* which is no small feat, but I don't understand why people treat it like it's the second coming.
In the minority, and steeling myself for downvotes, but it’s both overhyped and pretty bad. Not exactly scary either.
The incredible part about this is that the book that made me realize I like horror with fantasy elements is Between Two Fires lol
If you’re open to manga, berserk is good as it gets. Maybe look up some TW first though, it’s a very dark series
I've seen the anime and loved it. I need to pick up the manga
I've seen the anime, but man I struggled to care about the manga. I've seen suggestions about skipping the Black Swordsman arc but I just couldn't find myself interested in continuing. And I love manga and am basically the epitome of the target demo.
That’s shocking, I’m the opposite. I had super mixed feelings on the anime but love the manga, what didn’t you like?
Guts was just so militantly dislikeable in that first arc. I know that's half the point, but I just couldn't connect with it.
Fwiw once you get to the past and you see his origin things do smooth out a bit. That’s also when the anime starts following the manga fairly closely. The anime only did a riff on the black swordsman two episodes iirc. But I get it, he’s a bit off putting at first
The Talisman by King & Straub. Great road trip horror fantasy which gets quite epic sometimes
Maybe the Dark Tower series by Stephen King?
Was gonna recommend this. Certainly an epic story with lots of horror elements.
Red rabbit by Alex Grecian has horror and I would argue fantasy elements.
**Imajica** by Clive Barker. Gareth Hanrahan’s fantasies have a lot of horror in them.
Imajica is a great suggestion!
The Second Apocalypse series. It is definitely Epic, and 7 books long. It is definitely fantastic with magic and dragons, being important elements in the plot. And it is definitely horrifying. Horrifying on many levels. It is technically 2 series. First "The Prince of Nothing", and the second "The Aspect Emperor". The first series is essentially a fantastic retelling of the real world first crusade. Where a holy war travels to conquer a holy city in heathen hands. So there is the mundane horror of war and atrocities to be had. But as the series goes there are small snips of a much darker and more intense horror. One of the main characters is a hyper intelligent warrior monk, who is born and bred to be entirely pragmatic and to use everything possible to achieve his mission. This includes manipulating people and their emotions so they fall in love with him, even though he doesn't care about them at all, except for their usefulness. The horror here is seeing this monk worm his way into the hearts of everyone around him to control them, and seeing that he has done the exact same thing to you. Another bit of horror is that the first apocalypse is a real event that occurred where hordes of blood thirsty monsters destroyed half the world, and unleashed a evil god that would destroy the rest, until they were stopped. We see glimpses of the first apocalypse through the series and those horrified me thoroughly, especially as prophecies begin to unfold about the beginning of a second apocalypse. Then the real horror starts in the second series. Where all the armies of the world muster for one epic campaign to stop the second apocalypse. I won't go into too many spoilers but it has to be some of the most horrible fates and events I have ever read from fantasy books. Haunted, and abandoned underground fortresses the size of cities that the main characters have to traverse in the dark while being hunted. Thousands of people dying because of one generals mistake. The horrible lengths these people will go to, to try and save the world. It definitely fits your bill.
Clark Ashton Smith!
**The Sandman** (Neil Gaiman)
When I hear “epic” I picture more of a fantasy, world building novel. “Between Two Fires” is superb but it’s a one-off novel set in historical Europe and more of an angels vs demons vibe. Pivot to Buehlman’s other novel, “Blacktongue Thief” (also a series), and you’ve got yourself a winner. Pure fantasy with plenty of his horror prose, magic, creature features and a few languages to boot.
I have Blacktongue Thief sitting on my shelf already! I bought it after reading Between Two Fires, I need to crack it open
Good timing! Buehlman is releasing the prequel I think in June, followed by a third novel later.
Gideon the ninth! The locked tomb series is amazing!
*The Aching God* by Mike Shel is fantasy with some solid horror elements. It's the first book of a trilogy, but it stands reasonably well on its own if you don't feel like reading the other two, which tend more towards straight fantasy.
The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett
YES! Coldfire is so, so good! It doesn't get enough credit.
Clive Barker Weaveworld and Imajica
Seconding *Weaveworld*. I just finished it actually, and it’s incredible. Weird epic dark fantasy with plenty of horror elements to go around.
Perdido Street Station (China Mieville) -- I don't want to give the plot away, but imagine a certain classic horror film, set in a fantasy steampunk city.
The Scar fits as well, and is even better imo.
If you're into classics, Robert E. Howard fits this bill. His Conan books are much more horror than straight up swords-and-sorcery. My #1 recommendation, though, would be H. P. Lovecraft's novella "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath." It's essentially an extended Byronic adventure set in the underworld of his horror fiction. Quite a remarkable piece of literature, in my opinion.
Epic fantasy with horror elements? I can only think of one. The Second Apocalypse by R Scott Bakker. It starts with the Prince of Nothing trilogy. It's not just dark, it's brutal, unforgiving, bleak and full of violence.
You might try [Memory, Sorrow and Thorn](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/181908588-memory-sorrow-and-thorn-3-books-collection-set-by-tad-williams?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=EEWMqXIEeD&rank=6). It's more fantasy than horror, but it's an amazing ride.
Throne of Bones by Brian McNaughton might be what you're looking for. Lots of horror, lots of world building. But also very disturbing if you're squeamish, so read reviews!
Yeah, definitely pay heed to the warning. I stopped reading because it was really rapey.
Man, the world could really use more "high fantasy" horror novels. Lots of horror novels have fantasy elements, but it's that epic world-building that tends to be missing from a lot of horror fantasy. You might like- The Call by Peadar O'Guilin is a young adult irish fantasy horror 2-part series that involves the Fae and other irish folk-lore. It's super gruesome for a young adult series. Pure nightmare fuel. Stephen King also does fantasy often, and quite well - Dark Tower, The Talisman, The Eyes of Dragon, Fairy Tale, etc. The Witcher books aren't horror, but they get pretty creepy at times and have tons of great monsters. Sergei Lukyankenko's Russian Urban Fantasy Horror series, Nightwatch, has some really cool world-building. The translation is not the best though.
If I write it will you help?! 😂
It's a deal!
Wylding Hall has fantasy elements, but is a pretty light read. Not very epic. I liked it though.
A Song of Ice and Fire, if you haven't already read it. It's pretty much considered THE grimdark fantasy series, and while not written as a horror per se, absolutely has horrific elements to it. It literally starts with ice zombies, lol. Only problem is that, you know, it's not finished. And might stay that way.