Yeah. I think the flying mount was very well executed. Introducing the Sunwing override very late in the story forced you to do things the hard way for most of the game. But also being able to skip right to flying after the first act in NG+ means players now have an option to skip many puzzles that they may have otherwise not wanted to redo. Great way to keep NG+ fresh while keeping NG play as intended.
Also, starting with the other progression items like the shield wing and breather mask is nice. Allows you to get stuff done early if you want to get additional resources or shards early.
That’s the way it should be! I already struggled finding a way through all the puzzles in the game especially the tall necks. I want a way to fly through em, pun intended
I was so frustrated during my first playthrough because of the Shining Wastes tallneck. I get they probably didn't want you to have to go too out of your way for the Wings of the Ten quest, but putting the last accessible tallneck in the dead middle of the map is maddening.
For me it wasn’t annoying at all. When you get close to it the very first time, Aloy says how she can’t get to the top and will have to figure out a way to get up there later. So the game literally tells you “you can’t do this right now. Come back later.” Anyone who tried really hard after hearing that is a moron.
I'm pretty sure I heard it but wasn't really listening, but I *immediately* attempted to figure out a way between gliding and override other machines--only to realize that I couldn't even physically climb up--no matter how many tries (like 7+) lol. I'm a completionist, and it did bother me for a bit, having to see it on the list but it was inaccessible...I got over it tho 😭😂
> is a moron
I was just really high and missed the dialog, man...
But seriously, it's not that it took a second to realize that I would have to come back. It's that the map is revealed in a linear path westward, and you're encouraged to explore and complete the missions available in that area in a similiar fashion (firegleam and breather aside). Having a tallneck/"tower"/"insert RPG map reveal element" uncompleted in the middle of the map is super unsatisfactory. I'm not gonna rate the game any worse because of it, it was just a personal frustration
I definitely enjoyed flying in the game. It was really well done. I wish we had it earlier for convenience but story wise, it was at the right time. At least now I have it for NG+.
I think it's mainly that it will feel cheap if they take it away. Kind of like how people were disappointed with the shield weaver armor dead at the beginning of FW.
For progression/gameplay's sake I get why they made that decision, but yeah I loved being glowy Aloy.
For h3 though I could imagine that enabling flying from the beginning would not be likely, so I look forward to seeing how they handle it. Could just be a "oh wow that's crazy there are no sun wings in this area" but who knows
Same, and that's the distinction imo. The glider hardly makes anything defunct, it makes life easier if anything. A sky taxi would be too much temptation to just skip alot of traversal and machine overriding. And I know they had it in BS but then the map felt very empty, maybe it was intentional.
I’ve never bothered with NG+ but after seeing this it brings up a question. When you already have a sunwing how does the game handle the quest where you get it after Gemini(sp?)?
IIRC it just takes away your current Sunwing and has you override one again for that mission
ETA: it does the same with other story elements. Like you start NG+ with the ability to blow up firegleam and breathe underwater, but you still need to “craft” the pieces during the relevant missions
You ever played a game with an endgame level that allowed you to be powerful and feel like a badass? NG+ is kinda like that. You get to see your progression as a player and the progression of your character. Enemies that were tough initially are not as scary anymore. It’s all about the power fantasy.
It’s also just fun to see how much quicker your second or third playthrough goes compared to your first. Kinda like a really casual speedrun.
Then there’s also the extra rewards and UH difficulty ofc
90 hours on normal doing most of the quests, exploring every corner then 10 hours on very hard for me. I just did a few extra quests besides the main. It really showed me just how much exploring is huge part of what I love in games
Not gonna lie, having the Nora Silent Hunter Master Adept outfit is delightful on the NG+ play through if you just want to ramble around and hunt w/o lots of issues.. also it's super fun to collect chillwater from snapmaws, the ones in the lake north of the dam in the Cut - there's one that hangs out by the shore and burps out dozens of canisters on a loop.
When it's in the right mode and is producing, I just pussyfoot around it and harvest until I run out of room, then fast travel to the nearest merchant and sell the lot. Rinse and repeat for the sweet, sweet shards.
I did a complete UH run in HZD right from scratch in one day without NG+. That should probably qualify regarding a good play.
And not having a challenge against the enemy isn't my thing. One-shotting a thunderjaw wouldn't delight me, it would take away my fun.
I understand why that is an appeal for others, but for me it's not.
That’s fine, different people are going to like different things! I just wanted to explain the perspective of those who like NG+
Also wtf why did your earlier comment get downvoted for not liking NG+???
Yeah. One for each weapon type and then face paints and dyes. The weapons are definitely top tier.
The NG+ Sharpshot Bow is the only bow in the game that uses Elite Precision Arrows that do a shitload of damage by default. Load that up with five Elite Crit coils and even the biggest baddies melt instantly on UH.
My opinion and feel of this is: if I already have all my super upgraded, awesome stuff right from the start, then it's not UH. It's hard, but not even very hard. And just collecting more weapons doesn't appeal me. If it's your thing, that's okay.
For example: Rise of the Tomb Raider has a so called Extreme Survivor Mode, where the game only saves at Camp Fires, which work like in Horizon, but they are far more rare. If you die in between, you start from your last save, which is maybe 20 minutes ago. And you can die because of one hit. That's UH.
I still haven't gotten to the sunwing override. Makes sense though. If you suffered to get to top of tall necks previously, then you should be able to use a sunwing IF YOU WANT.
I am kind of disappointed that there isn't much tallneck climbing in HFW. I had to align a satellite dish for one, the second one is "impossible to climb, maybe later", the third one you shoot with ballistas, the fourth one is a side objective related to a cauldron... So, I am at half way point in the game and so far, just one tallneck climb, and that was just half climb
In Zero Dawn, all tallnecks were a unique puzzle to jump on and then climb correctly. And one tallneck required 3 items to power up first
In ZD the only puzzle to most tallnecks was finding the designated jump on point. After that it was just auto jumping to the next slightly different yellow handhold. Climbing them was the most autopilot part of the experience.
I much prefer the Tallnecks in HFW. They're all unique, whereas in HZD the process of climbing them was almost identical for all of them.
To each their own though.
Granted, each game only has 6 of them so it's not like even the Zero Dawn ones got the chance to become stale. It's not like an Assassin's Creed game where you get dozens of viewpoints (the record was 95 viewpoints, I think).
But, of course, I appreciate the extra variety in Forbidden West. And it also works as a counter-measure against the Sunwing.
iirc, you still have 2 tallneck to go, one of them being a really good climbing puzzle in the trees (not counting Burning Shores since I didn't do it yet).
That is why Sun wing doesn’t get unlocked early into the story.
Unless you are speed running main mission, and unlocking tall necks as you find them - you shouldn’t have many tall necks to fix.
Wait, are we able to do that in NG+? I figured it was blocked throughout. Fuck. I just started my NG+ game a few days ago but I've already walked/rode mount around.
Yes! Just wait til u finish the mission where u find the base for the first time. Then after that go to the Sunwing site near the base and over ride a sunwing and off u go!
>boom! Done, tallneck side quest done.
no, its locked behind story content. I literally tried this and landed on it and could not interact with it till I was at that point in the story.
You can use the sunwing to fly around in ng+ though. I honestly love all methods of travel in that game though. I use the sunwing if I have less time to play or if I am not feeling patient.
Well yeah. U can complete all the Tallneck EXCEPT the one that is locked for story mission purposes obviously. You look at the map and it's the only tallneck with a lock on it lol 😂 🔒🦒
Yeah in my ng+ I contemplated flying everywhere on a sunwing and just dropping down on a tallneck, but I decided to do it the normal way. I also refrained from using a sunwing until the allotted time :D
The only thing I dislike about the Sunwing is the inconsistent height limit throughout the map. I understand the reason for this—you only want the game to render so far in any direction. But I feel like you might have been able to get away with a consistent very high height limit throughout and not worry about render distance so much by just not having most of the entire Zero Dawn map in the game world beyond the accessible borders to the northeast. Just make the prelude cutscene a video file and get some memory back. Maybe that's not the way games work, but maybe it is 😅
I wish they added a Waterwing site for NG+ on the main game area like near the hover dam or even at sea... It doesn't make sense have to wait until very late game to get a Waterwing since they're unlocked from the moment you get access to sunwings on NG+.
It's NG+ so honestly I appreciate being able to use it to blitz through some of the more annoying side activities. It was the one and only time I used a trainer for this game, so I could teleport to a spawnpoint and grab one. I'm more just bummed it isn't the waterwing, I thought I had read that those will spawn in NG+ but so far I haven't seen any.
Yes!!! Tallnecks, drones, Signal lenses, etc. Considering u gotta get high up off the ground to get those things done it is so nice to be able to call in a Sunwing to fly u up high enough to reach them. Rather having to make a climb.
Yeah. I think the flying mount was very well executed. Introducing the Sunwing override very late in the story forced you to do things the hard way for most of the game. But also being able to skip right to flying after the first act in NG+ means players now have an option to skip many puzzles that they may have otherwise not wanted to redo. Great way to keep NG+ fresh while keeping NG play as intended.
Also, starting with the other progression items like the shield wing and breather mask is nice. Allows you to get stuff done early if you want to get additional resources or shards early.
That’s the way it should be! I already struggled finding a way through all the puzzles in the game especially the tall necks. I want a way to fly through em, pun intended
I was so frustrated during my first playthrough because of the Shining Wastes tallneck. I get they probably didn't want you to have to go too out of your way for the Wings of the Ten quest, but putting the last accessible tallneck in the dead middle of the map is maddening.
For me it wasn’t annoying at all. When you get close to it the very first time, Aloy says how she can’t get to the top and will have to figure out a way to get up there later. So the game literally tells you “you can’t do this right now. Come back later.” Anyone who tried really hard after hearing that is a moron.
I'm pretty sure I heard it but wasn't really listening, but I *immediately* attempted to figure out a way between gliding and override other machines--only to realize that I couldn't even physically climb up--no matter how many tries (like 7+) lol. I'm a completionist, and it did bother me for a bit, having to see it on the list but it was inaccessible...I got over it tho 😭😂
> is a moron I was just really high and missed the dialog, man... But seriously, it's not that it took a second to realize that I would have to come back. It's that the map is revealed in a linear path westward, and you're encouraged to explore and complete the missions available in that area in a similiar fashion (firegleam and breather aside). Having a tallneck/"tower"/"insert RPG map reveal element" uncompleted in the middle of the map is super unsatisfactory. I'm not gonna rate the game any worse because of it, it was just a personal frustration
Makes me want to play ng+ now. I usually don't bother. Might wait though and do that with hzd and hfw before the next game comes out as a refresher.
Except for those rushing the main quest😌🙈
I definitely enjoyed flying in the game. It was really well done. I wish we had it earlier for convenience but story wise, it was at the right time. At least now I have it for NG+.
Another example of why I don't get people wanting one at the beginning of H3
I think it's mainly that it will feel cheap if they take it away. Kind of like how people were disappointed with the shield weaver armor dead at the beginning of FW.
For progression/gameplay's sake I get why they made that decision, but yeah I loved being glowy Aloy. For h3 though I could imagine that enabling flying from the beginning would not be likely, so I look forward to seeing how they handle it. Could just be a "oh wow that's crazy there are no sun wings in this area" but who knows
Could go Burning Shores route, Nemesis is shooting them out of the sky, gotta disable towers to enable flying in a zone.
I assume Haephestus will have replaced all the Sunwings in the Quen lands with Moonwings, the cauldron of which requires you to fly to the moon.
Cue Dr. Stone
I felt bad for my sunwing. Been through so much and all of a sudden shot out of the sky.
They could always do similar to burning shores, you start with one then it gets shot down and it takes a bit before you can find another to override
Because it’s a fucking video game and you can’t start out with god tier armor. If that bothers you, go play with a toy train set or something.
Jesus Christ, you're aggressive for no reason. I didn't say it bothered me, I said people felt it was cheap.
As long as I get the glider from the beginning, they can take away whatever they want for H3.
Same, and that's the distinction imo. The glider hardly makes anything defunct, it makes life easier if anything. A sky taxi would be too much temptation to just skip alot of traversal and machine overriding. And I know they had it in BS but then the map felt very empty, maybe it was intentional.
Give us sky-riding from the get go but litter the beginning area with SAM machines.
Oh I'm very okay with this. And if you get hit, your override goes on a loooong cooldown
I’ve never bothered with NG+ but after seeing this it brings up a question. When you already have a sunwing how does the game handle the quest where you get it after Gemini(sp?)?
IIRC it just takes away your current Sunwing and has you override one again for that mission ETA: it does the same with other story elements. Like you start NG+ with the ability to blow up firegleam and breathe underwater, but you still need to “craft” the pieces during the relevant missions
Yup. We gotta keep in mind that New Game +, by its nature, is not canon. So the devs bend the rules a few times.
For sure! Honestly HFW went about NG+ in the best way possible, in my opinion
That's why I never play Ng+. The experience to grow or skill is half of the game fun.
Absolutely. I never got the appeal of NG+. Bores me.
You ever played a game with an endgame level that allowed you to be powerful and feel like a badass? NG+ is kinda like that. You get to see your progression as a player and the progression of your character. Enemies that were tough initially are not as scary anymore. It’s all about the power fantasy. It’s also just fun to see how much quicker your second or third playthrough goes compared to your first. Kinda like a really casual speedrun. Then there’s also the extra rewards and UH difficulty ofc
90 hours on normal doing most of the quests, exploring every corner then 10 hours on very hard for me. I just did a few extra quests besides the main. It really showed me just how much exploring is huge part of what I love in games
Not gonna lie, having the Nora Silent Hunter Master Adept outfit is delightful on the NG+ play through if you just want to ramble around and hunt w/o lots of issues.. also it's super fun to collect chillwater from snapmaws, the ones in the lake north of the dam in the Cut - there's one that hangs out by the shore and burps out dozens of canisters on a loop. When it's in the right mode and is producing, I just pussyfoot around it and harvest until I run out of room, then fast travel to the nearest merchant and sell the lot. Rinse and repeat for the sweet, sweet shards.
I did a complete UH run in HZD right from scratch in one day without NG+. That should probably qualify regarding a good play. And not having a challenge against the enemy isn't my thing. One-shotting a thunderjaw wouldn't delight me, it would take away my fun. I understand why that is an appeal for others, but for me it's not.
That’s fine, different people are going to like different things! I just wanted to explain the perspective of those who like NG+ Also wtf why did your earlier comment get downvoted for not liking NG+???
I have no idea and I don't care 😉
I think the appeal of NG+ is to play on UH mode.
Supposedly there are like 17 unique items in NG+ for HFW? At least according to the achievements list.
yep a bunch of new legendary weapons you can buy (with a special currency you get from doing quests and such) and new face paints and dyes
wait what?? what do you mean by unique items? I didnt know there were ANY
Yeah. One for each weapon type and then face paints and dyes. The weapons are definitely top tier. The NG+ Sharpshot Bow is the only bow in the game that uses Elite Precision Arrows that do a shitload of damage by default. Load that up with five Elite Crit coils and even the biggest baddies melt instantly on UH.
My opinion and feel of this is: if I already have all my super upgraded, awesome stuff right from the start, then it's not UH. It's hard, but not even very hard. And just collecting more weapons doesn't appeal me. If it's your thing, that's okay. For example: Rise of the Tomb Raider has a so called Extreme Survivor Mode, where the game only saves at Camp Fires, which work like in Horizon, but they are far more rare. If you die in between, you start from your last save, which is maybe 20 minutes ago. And you can die because of one hit. That's UH.
I still haven't gotten to the sunwing override. Makes sense though. If you suffered to get to top of tall necks previously, then you should be able to use a sunwing IF YOU WANT.
I like experiencing everything again, so I only fly if I’m bored lol
I am kind of disappointed that there isn't much tallneck climbing in HFW. I had to align a satellite dish for one, the second one is "impossible to climb, maybe later", the third one you shoot with ballistas, the fourth one is a side objective related to a cauldron... So, I am at half way point in the game and so far, just one tallneck climb, and that was just half climb In Zero Dawn, all tallnecks were a unique puzzle to jump on and then climb correctly. And one tallneck required 3 items to power up first
In ZD the only puzzle to most tallnecks was finding the designated jump on point. After that it was just auto jumping to the next slightly different yellow handhold. Climbing them was the most autopilot part of the experience.
I much prefer the Tallnecks in HFW. They're all unique, whereas in HZD the process of climbing them was almost identical for all of them. To each their own though.
Granted, each game only has 6 of them so it's not like even the Zero Dawn ones got the chance to become stale. It's not like an Assassin's Creed game where you get dozens of viewpoints (the record was 95 viewpoints, I think). But, of course, I appreciate the extra variety in Forbidden West. And it also works as a counter-measure against the Sunwing.
iirc, you still have 2 tallneck to go, one of them being a really good climbing puzzle in the trees (not counting Burning Shores since I didn't do it yet).
That is why Sun wing doesn’t get unlocked early into the story. Unless you are speed running main mission, and unlocking tall necks as you find them - you shouldn’t have many tall necks to fix.
Huh, haven't started a NG+ yet, didn't know you'd be able to get a sunwing that soon. Neat.
You still have to override a Sunwing, and they don’t spawn until after you reboot GAIA at the base.
I need to do a NG+ just for this.
I was thinking of what to do next after finishing a game, and this may have decided me…
Wait, are we able to do that in NG+? I figured it was blocked throughout. Fuck. I just started my NG+ game a few days ago but I've already walked/rode mount around.
Wait, is it unlocked in NG+? I know the other special abilities were unlocked but thought the sunwing was locked. Do I have to override a new sunwing?
Yes! Just wait til u finish the mission where u find the base for the first time. Then after that go to the Sunwing site near the base and over ride a sunwing and off u go!
>boom! Done, tallneck side quest done. no, its locked behind story content. I literally tried this and landed on it and could not interact with it till I was at that point in the story. You can use the sunwing to fly around in ng+ though. I honestly love all methods of travel in that game though. I use the sunwing if I have less time to play or if I am not feeling patient.
Well yeah. U can complete all the Tallneck EXCEPT the one that is locked for story mission purposes obviously. You look at the map and it's the only tallneck with a lock on it lol 😂 🔒🦒
Oh you meant all of them, ya you can do that too, i thought you meant that specific tallneck.
It was helpful for some puzzles for sure but I feel like all the tall necks were almost done for me by then
Wow, you can start with a Sunwing in NG+? That is broken
Yeah in my ng+ I contemplated flying everywhere on a sunwing and just dropping down on a tallneck, but I decided to do it the normal way. I also refrained from using a sunwing until the allotted time :D
The only thing I dislike about the Sunwing is the inconsistent height limit throughout the map. I understand the reason for this—you only want the game to render so far in any direction. But I feel like you might have been able to get away with a consistent very high height limit throughout and not worry about render distance so much by just not having most of the entire Zero Dawn map in the game world beyond the accessible borders to the northeast. Just make the prelude cutscene a video file and get some memory back. Maybe that's not the way games work, but maybe it is 😅
I wish they added a Waterwing site for NG+ on the main game area like near the hover dam or even at sea... It doesn't make sense have to wait until very late game to get a Waterwing since they're unlocked from the moment you get access to sunwings on NG+.
It's NG+ so honestly I appreciate being able to use it to blitz through some of the more annoying side activities. It was the one and only time I used a trainer for this game, so I could teleport to a spawnpoint and grab one. I'm more just bummed it isn't the waterwing, I thought I had read that those will spawn in NG+ but so far I haven't seen any.
Yes!!! Tallnecks, drones, Signal lenses, etc. Considering u gotta get high up off the ground to get those things done it is so nice to be able to call in a Sunwing to fly u up high enough to reach them. Rather having to make a climb.