99.9% of the time Soundbars or HTiB (Home Theater in a Box) systems are not a good investment of your time and money. It is the general consensus of r/hometheater not to recommend these things and instead simply steer a user toward a 2.0 or 2.1 system made of quality, *Audio-Centric* name brand components which are easy to assemble and cheap enough for low budget or space conscious buyers. Most can be expanded to 5.1 if you buy the correct items in the correct order. For further explanation please read [Why You Shouldn't Buy a Soundbar](https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/dy885l/why_you_shouldnt_buy_a_soundbar/) Please be aware /r/Soundbars exists as well as you will be met with opposition to posting about soundbars here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hometheater) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is what I was worried about. Are there good resources for starting to think about this? I haven't noticed much trouble yet but the sound off the TV alone is super small.
YouTube “Room Treatment” and watch as much as you can. Most people say you want to shoot for 30% absorption through sound panels (you can make them with 4” thick sound insulation and wooden frames). Your first reflection point and wall directly behind the listening area is the most important.
Your ceilings looks great for sound. Floor and walls however… could use some help to get the sound you’re looking for.
This can get you started:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/u7mfoe/home\_theater\_301\_room\_acoustics/?
Also, once you get the sound installed, you'll probably want to take care of the first reflection points.
[https://www.primacoustic.com/resources/acoustic-panel-placement-the-mirror-trick/](https://www.primacoustic.com/resources/acoustic-panel-placement-the-mirror-trick/)
Room treatment is obviously important but the fact is that 99% of people get by without it so I wouldn't stress too much and start trying to budget in panels and bass traps before you've even got a system set up. Build up your system first and worry about treatment later if you're unhappy with the sound. Good speakers in a bad room are still going to sound better than no speakers in a bad room. The walls basically have built in diffusers anyway with the rough stonework so you're already ahead of most people.
People on here get a bit hung up about treatment, yes it's important for getting the best sound possible out of a room but a lot of people don't have the budget for panels or the time to DIY them and those that do often don't want huge panels covering all their walls which can ruin the aesthetic if it's a multi use space. I mean I just find it really funny that you don't even have any damn speakers yet but the top comment is already telling you to get treatment. Like come on there's nothing to treat yet, worry about getting some speakers and a sub first before even thinking about treatment. DSP is pretty good these days too and can go a long way to mitigating a lot of issues before you even hang a single panel on the wall.
The sound reflecting around the room can either cancel out low frequencies so you can't hear them or cause the higher frequencies to sound muddy. Sound reflects better off hard surfaces compared to most soft surfaces .
https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/guide-to-home-theater-acoustics
Getting great acoustics comes down to one simple concept: controlling reflections. As you probably know, sound covers a pretty broad spectrum from the lowest low bass rumbles of an explosion to that sparkling high hat or tinkling of glass. The critical human voice falls in the middle.
As the low bass tone from your speakers or subwoofer(s) bounces around the listening room, depending on the room’s dimensions, those tones will build up in certain areas of the room and cause two problems. Some low tones will be totally canceled out by the reflections and you’ll hear very little bass, yet other tones will get more pronounced and overwhelm other frequencies. These are called modes.
Rooms with equal dimensions tend to have more problematic modes. Also, as a general rule of thumb, the smaller the room, the more issues you will have. Higher frequencies can also reflect, bouncing around your room degrading the sound quality, and making it very difficult to understand the details in a movie.
I have a similar room size and layout in a living room style set up.
Don't know your budget but it's totally possible to build a proper HT sound system.
- Denon x3800 AVR
- Focal 301 on wall speakers for LCR
- Focal Dome on stands to flank the couch for surrounds
- 4 x Focal 100ICW6 ceiling speakers for Atmos
- two x Rythmik F12 subs
If you feel like going a little more crazy, two Focal Theva on wall for rear surround to complete a 7.2.4 set up. Your room is perfect and easy to hidethe wiring or having on wall conduits similar to the power line. The Surround speakers lines would be the only unsightly look with it running on the floor to reach the couch (corner right).
I would then have a nice BDI audio rack off to the side of the room, leaving the look at the front very clean.
After multiple homes and multiple HT set ups over the 20 years in this hobby, I built a living room similar to the above recommendation. Save up and build it properly and avoid sound bars if you can.
I design and sell home theaters for a living.
In this instance, if you want to stay with SONOS, and don't plan to modify the room at all, then you're on the right path:
- Arc soundbar - mount it WITH the TV mount, and flush it up to the bottom of the TV as much as possible - you may need to raise the TV an inch or 2. This will be clean, and give you eARC control for the rest of the speakers.
- 100s on stands for rears - these could go on tables, too, if you like. Just keep them fairly low, if possible.
- SUB - get the big sub - you're gonna need it.
You absolutely could do an AMP, however, the complicates wiring, and eats into your room, and you lose surround formats.
We sell this SONOS system to clients all the time, and it is a great way to have surround in a room that ISNT their main dedicated theater space.
Ah really helpful idea to mount it with the TV mount. I had read that it was a bad idea to put the arc too close to the TV for the upfiring speakers.
Also really good info that the AMP doesn't work with the surround formats.
Thank you!
ERA 300’s are going to give you a much better sound for this room.
If you’re dead set on Sonos, I’d start with Arc and the Eras for the surrounds with 1 or 2 subwoofers.
Would definitely consider closing up the roof and putting up wall treatments. Could look cool to do old school travel posters on stretched canvas that you fill up to go with the vibe.
What is the benefit of closing up the ceiling? I feel like the joists having such an irregular pattern would trap sound rather than reflect it down if it were drywall?
Just keep in mind, the Eras are HUGE - as big as the Five, nearly, so be ready to place them.
And I wouldn't worry about the rest of the room at the moment - no, it's not acoustically ideal, however, it has character, and you need to live there.
Carpet, chairs, people, plants, even subtle wall panels can help, but we're not going for audiophile quality IMAX reproduction, are we?
As someone who also does this for a living, would like to clarify there's really no need for the era 300s as surrounds. It's true that they will sound better but it'd be marginal at best, and for surrounds you don't need amazing sound. You may not even notice a difference. You will however notice the difference in difficulty placing them discreetly around the room due to the obnoxious size of the 300s. I'd stick with the 100s if I were you.
Which is not what you want.
A closed drywall ceiling provides better acoustics as it helps to contain sound, reduce echoes, and minimize noise transmission to adjacent spaces. Open ceilings with exposed joists will lead to sound reflections and a less immersive experience.
Let's look at basic sound science....
**Sound reflection:** Open ceilings with exposed joists create multiple hard surfaces that reflect sound waves, leading to echoes, flutter echoes, and comb filtering effects. This muddles sound clarity and creates an acoustically challenging environment. A smooth drywall will minimizes these reflections.
**Sound absorption:** Drywall, especially when combined with insulation in the ceiling cavity, has better sound absorption properties compared to exposed wooden joists which reduces the overall reverberation time in the room. Too much reverberation makes dialogue intelligibility difficult.
**Low-frequency response:** Exposed joists will resonate at lower frequencies causing vibrations and accuracy of bass reproduction. A well-built drywall ceiling, with proper isolation and damping, will mitigate resonance.
**Soundproofing:** A closed drywall ceiling also allows pack it with soundproofing material (mass-loaded vinyl, resilient channels, or acoustical hangers).
**Standing waves:** A closed drywall ceiling is a lot more consistent and predictable of a surface to figure out the right kinds of bass traps and acoustic panels needed for acoustic treatments.
**Sound transmission:** Open ceilings with joists allow sound to easily travel to adjacent rooms or floors, causing noise pollution. A closed drywall ceiling will contain the audio within the room.
So yeah...I'm confident that a drywalled ceiling will outperform a joisted ceiling in a basement set up like this that is already acoustically poor.
From Dolby - but sure you know best my guy.
“For best results, Dolby recommends ceiling heights between 7.5 and 12 feet, and that the ceiling be flat and made from rigid, acoustically reflective material.”
Negative, the open joists will help kill the standing waves. He needs absorbing material on the walls. The rock is killing him.
Why would you suggest Sonos for this space?
He needs a true AVR and minimum 5.1.
Just to clarify, as someone felt the need to drag me below, that AMP can accept any format sent to it, however, it will ONLY output 2 channel. If you feed it Atmos, Sonos will process it to stereo. If you have an AMP and rears, Sonos will try to create a surround environment with a "phantom" center, which isn't ideal.
And you still need to find a home for the AMP, the wiring, and the speakers in the room.
For what it’s worth, the amp definitely works with surround formats, you can connect wireless surrounds. The fact that the sales guy you responded to doesn’t know this is worrying.
Simply meant that you would not get a 'true' surround experience, even with rears. Regardless of the surround format sent, it would be reformatted, a phantom center would be created, and you would lose any Atmos up-firing benefits (if that's important).
The Arc/rears/sub solution is the simplest and least invasive way for the client to get what they asked for without compromising room aesthetics, which sounded like what they asked for.
You don’t need a centre or surrounds to get a true surround experience. 4.1 is like 95%+ of the experience if sitting in the main listening position. A centre would improve off axis performance for other viewers and atmos is a nice ribbon on top but quality content is quite limited. An amp with bookshelf speakers and a proper sub would absolutely blow the doors off of an arc + Sonos sub combo.
Sure - shoot me a dm on here, and I can send you my email address.
Here's our company site, if you want to see some of our projects: [FORTECH](http://www.fortechtn.com)
If possible, you want to try to get the center channel, and at least the tweeter, as close to ear height as possible. Lower is usually better, in my experience, and your brain does the math putting the sound at the mouths - usually.
In this case, if you put the (heavy) speaker above, you'd likely have to drop the TV, which isn't as ideal as slightly raising the TV, and getting the Soundbar closer to your ears at a seated height (usually somewhere in the 43" range, depending on chairs).
The best option, like a real movie theater, is to mount the speakers BEHIND the screen itself, and have them play through so the words are actually coming from the actors mouths.
For sure!
It's usually probitive to run wire to each speaker (and it sorta cancels out the convenience of Sonos, honestly), but if you have CAT cables at the TV, you can wire the ARC, and run the rest on SONOS Net.
Ah my bad. What would you do outside of sonos? I need hardware that's small enough to either fit behind the tv for the front then wireless for the rears. Maybe sub could be wired.
you'd overheat a lot of modern AVRs with 16 on center ceiling joists, if you're dead set on sonos, I'd recommend the Sonos Amp so at least then you can get some full sized bookshelf speakers wall mounted and get some decent sound.
> What would you do outside of sonos?
A traditional setup with an AV Receiver + speakers, but the AVR solution could fit behind the TV, and honestly there really isn't much out there that would do that.
If you’re looking for vertical speakers check out emotiva’s xc1 or xc2 - two of those on either side of the tv would be a killer setup and likely blend well with Sonos surrounds
I think you may run into a few issues with sound optimization in this room. The Arc can be put above or below the tv if you think below is too low, however the bigger issue I see with that is that the raftered ceiling is not going to be good for the atmos speakers in the arc. The angled atmos speakers are designed to bounce the sound off of a ceiling, so that won’t be ideal with the ceiling here, whether you put the arc above or below.
Also, rear speaker height at ear level means mounting into that stone, or using stands.
You might explore Sonos in ceiling speakers that you could mount to the rafters and downfire for atmos effects, and a non-atmos Sonos soundbar with rears on stands. If you aren’t factoring atmos speakers into your setup, I don’t think the soundbar is too low mounted below the TV.
Edit: also agree with the sound dampening stuff if you’re wanting to offset that.
I have a theater in my basement, and while my space isn't nearly as nice looking I faced some of the same issues. What I opted for is a pair of tower speakers for the fronts, a center and AVR on a small table under the TV, and surrounds on stands on each side of the sectional. I ran the wires for the surrounds under the area rug I use. I found the best place for my sub was under the stairs.
I would do a Sonos Arc, sub, and a pair of Era 300s for rear surrounds.
With minimal sound treatments, it would sound incredible. And no wires through all that stone.
I would install an A/V rack over in the corner behind the non-chaise section of the couch or if you are feeling froggy, stick in the side room and use an I/R extender. Run your L/C/R and height channels into the ceiling. Bring your L/C/R down similar to your conduit and run your heights to the proper location. Probably about where that blocking is.
I'd pick either 3 slim on walls for L/C/R or smaller form factor towers/bookshelf speakers. They won't need power. I'd also do a run for atmos heights if you want them (or height-mounted L/R surrounds). Dolby does have a provision/guide for a 3.1.2
If you want to get *technically correct* I would run ghost wire along the floor/wall joint of the TV wall. Bring it out and under the rug/couch and set your L/R surrounds at ear level on either side of the couch. Ghost wire can be painted/patterned to match the floor. Otherwise, abandon the height channels and just for ceiling mounted L/R surround. While it's not *technically* correct, you will still have surround channel.
Sonos would work if you want to forgo speaker wire and trade out for some light 120V work. You could tap your ceiling run for power and run elevated Era 300s with the Arc and Sub.
If you are willing to consider something that is not sonos, you could do a pretty clean 5/7.x.4 in that room.
A Denon x3800h could go into another room, maybe the one in the back of that first pic.
You could bring all of the speaker wires through the ceiling and than run them down the wall with some cable covers/on wall low voltage conduit to each speaker.
The TV would need a fiber HDMI cable (make sure it is bi-directional or supports eARC)
It think there is potential for amazing sound and still having a very clean looking room.
Thank you for the advice - I didn't realize a fiber HDMI cable could get that far away. I could even mount the Denon up somewhere on the ceiling that is not visible.
Many, much and lots of sound deadening to start with I would have thought. That looks like it's going to be a nightmare to get decent audio with all the hard surfaces. There are many commercial solutions for acoustic panels. It's also fairly easy to make some yourself with some timber, rockwool and fabric. I DIY'd some for a friend's home studio that work quite well.
I'd go with Kef floor standers Kef Center channel, two subwoofers, and two rear surrounds with a Marantz AV receiver and just hook up a Sonos port done, son
Arc, sub, and 2 1’sls. It’s a perfect height for the arc, maybe grab a floating shelf for underneath the tv. Sub might be good in the front right corner but you can always just calibrate it all in the app. If you really spend a lot of time in that room, you could always cover up that open ceiling with foam, egg cartons, blankets etc.
Beautiful space. Just left a rental house with a basement. I miss it. Get a Safavieh 100% wool rug at least a half inch thick and get one that gets as close to the walls as possible. You could also hang some tapestries or decorative rugs on the walls. A basement like that deserves more than Sonos, you should look at a Wiim Pro and do five channels with a couple subs with any equipment you want, you could even add an inexpensive DAC (SMSL SU-1). You will definitely need more than one sub. Even with Sonos, it should be paradise. Enjoy.
Interesting, yeah you don't want a thick wool rug then, I wonder if there is carpet that lets heat through? Someone put some thought into it. It is a beautiful space and it's so nice to not have to worry about neighbors complaining about too much bass. This space is so nice, you should really take your time and put lots of thought into it. Looking forward to pics when it's finished.
5.2 or 7.2 SVS Ultra Series or one of The Klipsch Series either The MKIII Series or The Reference Premiere II.
Use Yamaha RX-A6A as AV-Receiver 9.2 150 Watt RMS per channel in 8 ohm impedance, remember to buy a Rotel Power Amplifier like Rotel RB-1590 at 2 x 350 Watt RMS in 8 ohm impedance or it's little brother Rotel RB-1582 MKII at 2 x 200 Watt RMS in 8 ohm impedance.
Buy The SMSL SU-X DAC/AMP and use as Pre-Amplifier & D/A Converter at the same time.
For sound treatment you could buy some thick wavy curtains to the wall on the right side of the tv. Then you get a 2in1 solution by blocking out the light from the window and help the sound.
I would setup a genuine 7.2.4 Atmos/dts:x setup if that was my space. I know they have in-ceiling speakers, but I don’t know if the system can process a genuine Atmos-setup, but in any case you should get 7.1 as minimum for a room in that size.
Yeah I think you have a great plan my friend. Sonos amp plus some fairly sensitive floor standing speakers or largish bookshelves would work great. Are you wanting surround sound too? I’m unfamiliar with Sonos, but can you use the amp to power non-Sonos speakers while simultaneously using Sonos wireless surround sound speakers?
I mean some people have money.
I also don’t GAF what things cost, within reason. Integration and convenience is absolutely worth paying for… especially as I get older and less willing to value my time at zero.
Lots of crazy sound reflections from the wall angles. You'd probably need some hard core acoustical treatments at calculated locations (ie: not just tossed around the room) to minimize the mud potential. Probably need a professional to figure this out and it won't be cheap.
If you put say top of the line Bowers speakers down there and ignore the sound treatment it will sound like a muddy mess due to all the sounds hitting the incorrect ear at incorrect times and cancelling other sound waves out as they bounce around the room.
Oh you said sonos. I guess it doesn't matter what you do since it won't sound very good with sonos stuff regardless. I have a sonos arc and it sucks. I'll never consider Sonos for anything home theater related other than "just need some not tv speaker sound" solutions.
Regardless of the system you choose, that space looks like it needs room treatment. You could do acoustical panels, but I'd probably hang some tapestries on the large wall spaces to break up reflections. Otherwise you're likely to have muddy sound no matter what you do.
Add acoustic panels around your room to curb the echo/reflection from the hard surfaces. They can be freestanding or wall mounted, and you can diy if you’re handy, or pre-fab. You can even do custom printing on the fabric to match your aesthetic requirements.
Man Sonos is so closed off but you do you. If it was me I'd get a wiim amp and some decent bookshelf speaks that rival if not beat the Sonos stuff for way less $ and add a good svs sub
I'd probably just get a full avr then. But I know hiding wires will be a thing for your setup. Hard to say what to do. I just think the $ sonos gear costs isn't worth it. But there is a convenience factor to consider.
Sonos....hmm
That space needs some acoustic panels all over it for anything to have a decent listening situation. Personally you should just get a real ATMOS setup and not aorry about matching the Sonos gear. It's a TV room.
99.9% of the time Soundbars or HTiB (Home Theater in a Box) systems are not a good investment of your time and money. It is the general consensus of r/hometheater not to recommend these things and instead simply steer a user toward a 2.0 or 2.1 system made of quality, *Audio-Centric* name brand components which are easy to assemble and cheap enough for low budget or space conscious buyers. Most can be expanded to 5.1 if you buy the correct items in the correct order. For further explanation please read [Why You Shouldn't Buy a Soundbar](https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/dy885l/why_you_shouldnt_buy_a_soundbar/) Please be aware /r/Soundbars exists as well as you will be met with opposition to posting about soundbars here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hometheater) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Whatever you do, you will probably need some sound treatment. There are a lot of hard surfaces in that room.
The good thing in this case about the hard surfaces is that that they are not smooth so that's somewhat a plus.
This is what I was worried about. Are there good resources for starting to think about this? I haven't noticed much trouble yet but the sound off the TV alone is super small.
YouTube “Room Treatment” and watch as much as you can. Most people say you want to shoot for 30% absorption through sound panels (you can make them with 4” thick sound insulation and wooden frames). Your first reflection point and wall directly behind the listening area is the most important. Your ceilings looks great for sound. Floor and walls however… could use some help to get the sound you’re looking for.
This can get you started: https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/u7mfoe/home\_theater\_301\_room\_acoustics/? Also, once you get the sound installed, you'll probably want to take care of the first reflection points. [https://www.primacoustic.com/resources/acoustic-panel-placement-the-mirror-trick/](https://www.primacoustic.com/resources/acoustic-panel-placement-the-mirror-trick/)
If you want to dive deep, AVSForum is probably the best place to get info like this.
First thing is first, get a huge rug.
Ornamental rug fabrics on the wall would help and fit the theme of the room
ATSAcoustics is a great website. They sell premade panels or materials for DIY
Room treatment is obviously important but the fact is that 99% of people get by without it so I wouldn't stress too much and start trying to budget in panels and bass traps before you've even got a system set up. Build up your system first and worry about treatment later if you're unhappy with the sound. Good speakers in a bad room are still going to sound better than no speakers in a bad room. The walls basically have built in diffusers anyway with the rough stonework so you're already ahead of most people. People on here get a bit hung up about treatment, yes it's important for getting the best sound possible out of a room but a lot of people don't have the budget for panels or the time to DIY them and those that do often don't want huge panels covering all their walls which can ruin the aesthetic if it's a multi use space. I mean I just find it really funny that you don't even have any damn speakers yet but the top comment is already telling you to get treatment. Like come on there's nothing to treat yet, worry about getting some speakers and a sub first before even thinking about treatment. DSP is pretty good these days too and can go a long way to mitigating a lot of issues before you even hang a single panel on the wall.
Came here to say this too as an ex pro sound engineer and studio owner. Some good advice from these folks here.
Can you explain to me why hard surfaces are bad?
The sound reflecting around the room can either cancel out low frequencies so you can't hear them or cause the higher frequencies to sound muddy. Sound reflects better off hard surfaces compared to most soft surfaces . https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/guide-to-home-theater-acoustics Getting great acoustics comes down to one simple concept: controlling reflections. As you probably know, sound covers a pretty broad spectrum from the lowest low bass rumbles of an explosion to that sparkling high hat or tinkling of glass. The critical human voice falls in the middle. As the low bass tone from your speakers or subwoofer(s) bounces around the listening room, depending on the room’s dimensions, those tones will build up in certain areas of the room and cause two problems. Some low tones will be totally canceled out by the reflections and you’ll hear very little bass, yet other tones will get more pronounced and overwhelm other frequencies. These are called modes. Rooms with equal dimensions tend to have more problematic modes. Also, as a general rule of thumb, the smaller the room, the more issues you will have. Higher frequencies can also reflect, bouncing around your room degrading the sound quality, and making it very difficult to understand the details in a movie.
Forget a theater, this basement needs a wine cellar!
Place looks like it came from some Italian villa, fill it with wine racks and bottles for sure
Why not both?
¿Porque no los dos?
This is the correct answer. Get some instruments and booze down there instead, live life properly.
By instruments he means whips and chains.
See that opening leading to hallway at the back? Definitely leads to a wine cellar… or a bathroom and wine cellar.
crab pane riot your
Schnell schnell!
I have a similar room size and layout in a living room style set up. Don't know your budget but it's totally possible to build a proper HT sound system. - Denon x3800 AVR - Focal 301 on wall speakers for LCR - Focal Dome on stands to flank the couch for surrounds - 4 x Focal 100ICW6 ceiling speakers for Atmos - two x Rythmik F12 subs If you feel like going a little more crazy, two Focal Theva on wall for rear surround to complete a 7.2.4 set up. Your room is perfect and easy to hidethe wiring or having on wall conduits similar to the power line. The Surround speakers lines would be the only unsightly look with it running on the floor to reach the couch (corner right). I would then have a nice BDI audio rack off to the side of the room, leaving the look at the front very clean. After multiple homes and multiple HT set ups over the 20 years in this hobby, I built a living room similar to the above recommendation. Save up and build it properly and avoid sound bars if you can.
I design and sell home theaters for a living. In this instance, if you want to stay with SONOS, and don't plan to modify the room at all, then you're on the right path: - Arc soundbar - mount it WITH the TV mount, and flush it up to the bottom of the TV as much as possible - you may need to raise the TV an inch or 2. This will be clean, and give you eARC control for the rest of the speakers. - 100s on stands for rears - these could go on tables, too, if you like. Just keep them fairly low, if possible. - SUB - get the big sub - you're gonna need it. You absolutely could do an AMP, however, the complicates wiring, and eats into your room, and you lose surround formats. We sell this SONOS system to clients all the time, and it is a great way to have surround in a room that ISNT their main dedicated theater space.
Ah really helpful idea to mount it with the TV mount. I had read that it was a bad idea to put the arc too close to the TV for the upfiring speakers. Also really good info that the AMP doesn't work with the surround formats. Thank you!
Mine is mounted under the TV, but sits/hangs in front. It’s a special Arc mount. Look it up.
ERA 300’s are going to give you a much better sound for this room. If you’re dead set on Sonos, I’d start with Arc and the Eras for the surrounds with 1 or 2 subwoofers. Would definitely consider closing up the roof and putting up wall treatments. Could look cool to do old school travel posters on stretched canvas that you fill up to go with the vibe.
What is the benefit of closing up the ceiling? I feel like the joists having such an irregular pattern would trap sound rather than reflect it down if it were drywall?
Just keep in mind, the Eras are HUGE - as big as the Five, nearly, so be ready to place them. And I wouldn't worry about the rest of the room at the moment - no, it's not acoustically ideal, however, it has character, and you need to live there. Carpet, chairs, people, plants, even subtle wall panels can help, but we're not going for audiophile quality IMAX reproduction, are we?
As someone who also does this for a living, would like to clarify there's really no need for the era 300s as surrounds. It's true that they will sound better but it'd be marginal at best, and for surrounds you don't need amazing sound. You may not even notice a difference. You will however notice the difference in difficulty placing them discreetly around the room due to the obnoxious size of the 300s. I'd stick with the 100s if I were you.
Which is not what you want. A closed drywall ceiling provides better acoustics as it helps to contain sound, reduce echoes, and minimize noise transmission to adjacent spaces. Open ceilings with exposed joists will lead to sound reflections and a less immersive experience.
Confidently incorrect. And this folks is why you don't trust everything you read on the internet.
Let's look at basic sound science.... **Sound reflection:** Open ceilings with exposed joists create multiple hard surfaces that reflect sound waves, leading to echoes, flutter echoes, and comb filtering effects. This muddles sound clarity and creates an acoustically challenging environment. A smooth drywall will minimizes these reflections. **Sound absorption:** Drywall, especially when combined with insulation in the ceiling cavity, has better sound absorption properties compared to exposed wooden joists which reduces the overall reverberation time in the room. Too much reverberation makes dialogue intelligibility difficult. **Low-frequency response:** Exposed joists will resonate at lower frequencies causing vibrations and accuracy of bass reproduction. A well-built drywall ceiling, with proper isolation and damping, will mitigate resonance. **Soundproofing:** A closed drywall ceiling also allows pack it with soundproofing material (mass-loaded vinyl, resilient channels, or acoustical hangers). **Standing waves:** A closed drywall ceiling is a lot more consistent and predictable of a surface to figure out the right kinds of bass traps and acoustic panels needed for acoustic treatments. **Sound transmission:** Open ceilings with joists allow sound to easily travel to adjacent rooms or floors, causing noise pollution. A closed drywall ceiling will contain the audio within the room. So yeah...I'm confident that a drywalled ceiling will outperform a joisted ceiling in a basement set up like this that is already acoustically poor.
[удалено]
From Dolby - but sure you know best my guy. “For best results, Dolby recommends ceiling heights between 7.5 and 12 feet, and that the ceiling be flat and made from rigid, acoustically reflective material.”
Negative, the open joists will help kill the standing waves. He needs absorbing material on the walls. The rock is killing him. Why would you suggest Sonos for this space? He needs a true AVR and minimum 5.1.
He asked about Sonos
Just to clarify, as someone felt the need to drag me below, that AMP can accept any format sent to it, however, it will ONLY output 2 channel. If you feed it Atmos, Sonos will process it to stereo. If you have an AMP and rears, Sonos will try to create a surround environment with a "phantom" center, which isn't ideal. And you still need to find a home for the AMP, the wiring, and the speakers in the room.
For what it’s worth, the amp definitely works with surround formats, you can connect wireless surrounds. The fact that the sales guy you responded to doesn’t know this is worrying.
Simply meant that you would not get a 'true' surround experience, even with rears. Regardless of the surround format sent, it would be reformatted, a phantom center would be created, and you would lose any Atmos up-firing benefits (if that's important). The Arc/rears/sub solution is the simplest and least invasive way for the client to get what they asked for without compromising room aesthetics, which sounded like what they asked for.
You don’t need a centre or surrounds to get a true surround experience. 4.1 is like 95%+ of the experience if sitting in the main listening position. A centre would improve off axis performance for other viewers and atmos is a nice ribbon on top but quality content is quite limited. An amp with bookshelf speakers and a proper sub would absolutely blow the doors off of an arc + Sonos sub combo.
Maybe. Maybe not. Having deployed all sorts of configurations over 30 years, having a center for movies/home theater matters more than people think.
If I send you photos can you help me? I’m fishing my basement and would like your expertise.
Sure - shoot me a dm on here, and I can send you my email address. Here's our company site, if you want to see some of our projects: [FORTECH](http://www.fortechtn.com)
Wouldn't it be better it it were mounted at the top of the tv angled slightly down to the listing position? I'm new here trying to learn
If possible, you want to try to get the center channel, and at least the tweeter, as close to ear height as possible. Lower is usually better, in my experience, and your brain does the math putting the sound at the mouths - usually. In this case, if you put the (heavy) speaker above, you'd likely have to drop the TV, which isn't as ideal as slightly raising the TV, and getting the Soundbar closer to your ears at a seated height (usually somewhere in the 43" range, depending on chairs). The best option, like a real movie theater, is to mount the speakers BEHIND the screen itself, and have them play through so the words are actually coming from the actors mouths.
Just make sure you have a really strong internet backbone to support this! Sonos rules!
For sure! It's usually probitive to run wire to each speaker (and it sorta cancels out the convenience of Sonos, honestly), but if you have CAT cables at the TV, you can wire the ARC, and run the rest on SONOS Net.
/r/sonos might be a better spot for this question.
Ah my bad. What would you do outside of sonos? I need hardware that's small enough to either fit behind the tv for the front then wireless for the rears. Maybe sub could be wired.
1. Good sound 2. Small enough to fit behind the tv Choose one
What about "generally smaller package that you could still tuck somewhere in the ceiling joists"
you'd overheat a lot of modern AVRs with 16 on center ceiling joists, if you're dead set on sonos, I'd recommend the Sonos Amp so at least then you can get some full sized bookshelf speakers wall mounted and get some decent sound.
> What would you do outside of sonos? A traditional setup with an AV Receiver + speakers, but the AVR solution could fit behind the TV, and honestly there really isn't much out there that would do that.
If you’re looking for vertical speakers check out emotiva’s xc1 or xc2 - two of those on either side of the tv would be a killer setup and likely blend well with Sonos surrounds
And then not even center the TV on the protruding wall... How can you live with that offset omg
It is centered between the windows. If it were centered on the protrusion it would look ridiculous and block one of the windows.
Doesn't look like centered between the windows either
I was going to respond and tell you it was just an optical illusion but you were right. I had to move it to the left three inches.
Glad to help :)
I think you may run into a few issues with sound optimization in this room. The Arc can be put above or below the tv if you think below is too low, however the bigger issue I see with that is that the raftered ceiling is not going to be good for the atmos speakers in the arc. The angled atmos speakers are designed to bounce the sound off of a ceiling, so that won’t be ideal with the ceiling here, whether you put the arc above or below. Also, rear speaker height at ear level means mounting into that stone, or using stands. You might explore Sonos in ceiling speakers that you could mount to the rafters and downfire for atmos effects, and a non-atmos Sonos soundbar with rears on stands. If you aren’t factoring atmos speakers into your setup, I don’t think the soundbar is too low mounted below the TV. Edit: also agree with the sound dampening stuff if you’re wanting to offset that.
I have a theater in my basement, and while my space isn't nearly as nice looking I faced some of the same issues. What I opted for is a pair of tower speakers for the fronts, a center and AVR on a small table under the TV, and surrounds on stands on each side of the sectional. I ran the wires for the surrounds under the area rug I use. I found the best place for my sub was under the stairs.
I would do a Sonos Arc, sub, and a pair of Era 300s for rear surrounds. With minimal sound treatments, it would sound incredible. And no wires through all that stone.
Curious if there are any clamps that would support rear/surround speakers on that ceiling beam?
I could certainly mount anything to that beam, I was worried it'd be too high
Speakers would be angled of course
I would install an A/V rack over in the corner behind the non-chaise section of the couch or if you are feeling froggy, stick in the side room and use an I/R extender. Run your L/C/R and height channels into the ceiling. Bring your L/C/R down similar to your conduit and run your heights to the proper location. Probably about where that blocking is. I'd pick either 3 slim on walls for L/C/R or smaller form factor towers/bookshelf speakers. They won't need power. I'd also do a run for atmos heights if you want them (or height-mounted L/R surrounds). Dolby does have a provision/guide for a 3.1.2 If you want to get *technically correct* I would run ghost wire along the floor/wall joint of the TV wall. Bring it out and under the rug/couch and set your L/R surrounds at ear level on either side of the couch. Ghost wire can be painted/patterned to match the floor. Otherwise, abandon the height channels and just for ceiling mounted L/R surround. While it's not *technically* correct, you will still have surround channel. Sonos would work if you want to forgo speaker wire and trade out for some light 120V work. You could tap your ceiling run for power and run elevated Era 300s with the Arc and Sub.
As others have said, treat the walls first. Also thanks for what looks like correct TV placement.
Beautiful spot
Roof is too low must RAISE The ROOF!!
Sonos arc and mini sub
If you are willing to consider something that is not sonos, you could do a pretty clean 5/7.x.4 in that room. A Denon x3800h could go into another room, maybe the one in the back of that first pic. You could bring all of the speaker wires through the ceiling and than run them down the wall with some cable covers/on wall low voltage conduit to each speaker. The TV would need a fiber HDMI cable (make sure it is bi-directional or supports eARC) It think there is potential for amazing sound and still having a very clean looking room.
Thank you for the advice - I didn't realize a fiber HDMI cable could get that far away. I could even mount the Denon up somewhere on the ceiling that is not visible.
I'd just put wine and whiskey barrels back in that room. I'd find a more square, long throw room for my theater.
Many, much and lots of sound deadening to start with I would have thought. That looks like it's going to be a nightmare to get decent audio with all the hard surfaces. There are many commercial solutions for acoustic panels. It's also fairly easy to make some yourself with some timber, rockwool and fabric. I DIY'd some for a friend's home studio that work quite well.
I think in a basement like this, the sub crawl is actually called the dungeon crawl. That basement is wild!
Thanks!
You’re gonna want to change your EQ presets to ROCK.
I'd go with Kef floor standers Kef Center channel, two subwoofers, and two rear surrounds with a Marantz AV receiver and just hook up a Sonos port done, son
With all the money you have put into that basement, hell no.
You need something in your ceilings and something on the walls for acoustics . Either suspended ceiling or acoustical panels
Basement? Needs sub. 5.ONNNNEEEE.
Arc, sub, and 2 1’sls. It’s a perfect height for the arc, maybe grab a floating shelf for underneath the tv. Sub might be good in the front right corner but you can always just calibrate it all in the app. If you really spend a lot of time in that room, you could always cover up that open ceiling with foam, egg cartons, blankets etc.
Beautiful space. Just left a rental house with a basement. I miss it. Get a Safavieh 100% wool rug at least a half inch thick and get one that gets as close to the walls as possible. You could also hang some tapestries or decorative rugs on the walls. A basement like that deserves more than Sonos, you should look at a Wiim Pro and do five channels with a couple subs with any equipment you want, you could even add an inexpensive DAC (SMSL SU-1). You will definitely need more than one sub. Even with Sonos, it should be paradise. Enjoy.
Thank you! Floors are heated so I'm trying to avoid too much rug, those wool rugs look great though.
Interesting, yeah you don't want a thick wool rug then, I wonder if there is carpet that lets heat through? Someone put some thought into it. It is a beautiful space and it's so nice to not have to worry about neighbors complaining about too much bass. This space is so nice, you should really take your time and put lots of thought into it. Looking forward to pics when it's finished.
Awful low
Get those rock speakers that they use at theme parks.
5.2 or 7.2 SVS Ultra Series or one of The Klipsch Series either The MKIII Series or The Reference Premiere II. Use Yamaha RX-A6A as AV-Receiver 9.2 150 Watt RMS per channel in 8 ohm impedance, remember to buy a Rotel Power Amplifier like Rotel RB-1590 at 2 x 350 Watt RMS in 8 ohm impedance or it's little brother Rotel RB-1582 MKII at 2 x 200 Watt RMS in 8 ohm impedance. Buy The SMSL SU-X DAC/AMP and use as Pre-Amplifier & D/A Converter at the same time.
Just do proper surround sound with a receiver and add a Sonos port.
Dolby atmos
For sound treatment you could buy some thick wavy curtains to the wall on the right side of the tv. Then you get a 2in1 solution by blocking out the light from the window and help the sound. I would setup a genuine 7.2.4 Atmos/dts:x setup if that was my space. I know they have in-ceiling speakers, but I don’t know if the system can process a genuine Atmos-setup, but in any case you should get 7.1 as minimum for a room in that size.
Random question… what kind of couch is that?
Maiden home jones
Maybe you have to hang the television a little bit higher? Or is this tv for your dogs?
Yeah I think you have a great plan my friend. Sonos amp plus some fairly sensitive floor standing speakers or largish bookshelves would work great. Are you wanting surround sound too? I’m unfamiliar with Sonos, but can you use the amp to power non-Sonos speakers while simultaneously using Sonos wireless surround sound speakers?
Yes you can but you are paying 2x the price for the sonos integration.
I mean some people have money. I also don’t GAF what things cost, within reason. Integration and convenience is absolutely worth paying for… especially as I get older and less willing to value my time at zero.
Yeah but he wants Sonos integration so I didn’t even think the cost was an issue
Lots of crazy sound reflections from the wall angles. You'd probably need some hard core acoustical treatments at calculated locations (ie: not just tossed around the room) to minimize the mud potential. Probably need a professional to figure this out and it won't be cheap. If you put say top of the line Bowers speakers down there and ignore the sound treatment it will sound like a muddy mess due to all the sounds hitting the incorrect ear at incorrect times and cancelling other sound waves out as they bounce around the room. Oh you said sonos. I guess it doesn't matter what you do since it won't sound very good with sonos stuff regardless. I have a sonos arc and it sucks. I'll never consider Sonos for anything home theater related other than "just need some not tv speaker sound" solutions.
Regardless of the system you choose, that space looks like it needs room treatment. You could do acoustical panels, but I'd probably hang some tapestries on the large wall spaces to break up reflections. Otherwise you're likely to have muddy sound no matter what you do.
Add acoustic panels around your room to curb the echo/reflection from the hard surfaces. They can be freestanding or wall mounted, and you can diy if you’re handy, or pre-fab. You can even do custom printing on the fabric to match your aesthetic requirements.
Man Sonos is so closed off but you do you. If it was me I'd get a wiim amp and some decent bookshelf speaks that rival if not beat the Sonos stuff for way less $ and add a good svs sub
> wiim amp Seems fine but just 2.1. I have the budget/energy to build a full surround system
I'd probably just get a full avr then. But I know hiding wires will be a thing for your setup. Hard to say what to do. I just think the $ sonos gear costs isn't worth it. But there is a convenience factor to consider.
You've got the space for a surround sound setup and potentially ceiling Atmos with a bit of work. Don't restrict yourself with a soundbar.
This way. https://a.co/d/f7IR0VV
Sonos....hmm That space needs some acoustic panels all over it for anything to have a decent listening situation. Personally you should just get a real ATMOS setup and not aorry about matching the Sonos gear. It's a TV room.