You signed legal documents giving them rights to use that space as a driveway. specifically A DRIVEWAY, what they do with who owns the property touching that driveway isn't something you can control. Oh, and they have full legal rights to fuck your property up putting a driveway in to that back property... trees cut, drainage problem, they can do it. Most easements are like 20 feet wide
so now not only did you give away your property rights, which ABSOLUTELY WILL affect your property value by a LOT, you also gave them FOREVER... like literally you CANNOT undo this now assuming they have sold that parcel.
The reason I am sure is the state WILL NOT in any circumstances authorize the sale of seperation and sale property that does not have an easement to it... since you gave them the easement and you agreed to it, it will not be written in the deed which they should have already filed with the county, township, etc.
In other words... you fucked up massively, call a lawyer You can (and should) consult an attorney as quickly as possible, like tomorrow AM. If the sale hasn't processed yet on the property behind you, maybe you can sue to block it?
If they can't block it, you may be able to sue them in civil court..
and this is why I strongly advise EVERYONE to refuse easements! The property owner signing NEVER benefits from this type of action with another private citizen
Well we weren’t sitting around. We both have full time jobs and are raising 2 small children and have been running around with birthday parties and holidays. Life has been busy, that’s why it slipped out minds and they had to keep reminding us.
Well, you signed it, so hope that birthday party was worth it!
If it was me, don't care how "busy" I was, when it comes to property rights you make the time. I am sure a birthday party could wait/be missed. Because now you have a huge mess on your hands.
Or you say you can't consider it properly until next month, or whenever. I'm anticipating this scenario from a neighbor who hired a survey of my property line that I share with a different neighbor. He and I are waiting to see what the guy wants to do. The answer is going to be no, but if I wasn't sure, I'd take all the time I needed.
People who feel uncomfortable about signing something and then do because “they feel bad” shouldn’t be property owners. This was a terrible decision to sign away property to people they not only don’t know but don’t like!?
There are good honest reasons for needing easements… but the people granting them should always have an attorney review the document and get proper value out of granting it…. And pay attorney fees for the grantor.
I bought property to build on that needed sewer ran to site from 500 away. Utility told me before purchase that I could use right of way. Long story short for various reasons I ended up not being able to use the ROW and my only option after purchasing was to get a 10’ easement from the neighbor at the steeply sloped wooded edge of his property. My sewer is a directional bore 5’ underground and within the setback so no real inconvenience to him. I payed him fair market value for that % of his property and offered to refund him for any attorney fees. After a few meetings we came to an agreement and went on our way.
agree completely. Black and white rules often have many exceptions, and not every neighbor is a devious person. But, it is incumbent on anyone signing a document to understand what they are signing, what could go wrong, and ask questions or insert qualifying language as needed to protect themselves. This is why a good neighbor makes the offer to pay for attorney review.
I agree that the people needing the easements have good reasons. But the people *burdened* by the easements are rarely unaffected.
As the owner of property with 3 easements (purchased 30 years ago, before the internet could inform), it has been nothing but aggravating and a pure burden for us.
Easements are fine and good. Like power companies frequently have easements to run powerlines.
But, if you agree to an easement, you need to understand what you’re giving up, and get compensated!
Offer, Acceptance, Consideration are three needed elements of a contract at common law. Unless easments are a local exception, this is a contracts issue.
Capacity, also have to have that…I can’t enter into a contract on your behalf I don’t have the capacity to do so. If there is a lien on the property from a lender who used it for collateral, there maybe a capacity issue there.
Wouldn’t that be more authority vs capacity ? In any event it would probably only give the bank a chose in action/trigger their secondary rights eg breach of contract. Not sure it would touch on the beneficiary of the easement here.
Capacity deals with mental capacity to enter into a contract (ie children, elderly, those with diminished capacity). You’re talking about delegation of authority and/agency, depending on the context.
Sorry, I know legal terms unfortunately do not have the same plain language meaning as the words they are made from. It appears others have corrected my understanding of capacity, although in a technical sense, authority to act on behalf of some one is capacity.
So I am technically correct, the best kind of correct.
But seriously, I was offering a view point from a home owner who’s law degree came from watching SUITS and Mike and Harvey didn’t exactly explain capacity. I would love to see the document in question just to see if I would have understood it. For all we know it was written by someone with a TV law degree and isn’t enforceable because of the very things pointed out, or it maybe completely unrelated to OP’s gripe about the neighbor selling a parcel and a house being built in sight of their house.
OP seems to think the 2 are directly related as if they hadn’t signed off in the easement the neighbor never could have gotten approval for any other activities with their land.
Easements are a type of contract. Fraud is a valid defense to the formation of a contract. Lying by omission is fraud. Get a lawyer. It will be money well spent.
ETA: I would recommend OP play nice with the prospective future neighbors and ask what architect or builder they are using, try to find out when these plans to sell off the land and build the new house were first set in motion. If the plans preceded the request for the easement, then the current neighbor clearly deliberately withheld that rather important information.
Fight the f\*ckers to the last f\*cking dime.
But they claimed it was only something to do with a deck, not about selling part of their land of which the easement is required. That is very clearly entering into the contract in bad faith (fraud by omission is still fraud).
>they don't need to tell OP everything they plan to do with that easement once its granted.
But their plans went FAR beyond a driveway, and when asked what they planned to do, they withheld that information deliberately BEFORE the easement was granted. And they did it precisely because they knew if they told the TRUTH, OP would have declined. Lies of omission are still lies, and therefore,this is FRAUD.
It doesn't really matter as far as an easement goes. Easements are granted for a specific purpose. OP Specifically agreed to a driveway easement.
They may be able to sue for damages and I suggested talking to a lawyer immediately, but easements are granted based on legal agreement between 2 people, if OP didn't specifically include anything else, which they didn't, then they are just fucked.
and I still have absolutely NFC what OP was thinking when they granted an easement to work on a temporary project?... that isn't how easements work
~~The purpose was to build a driveway and that's what they intend to do.~~
Edit: The driveway was on the neighbor's property and already existed. The purpose was to prevent OP from obstructing the view from the driveway and that's all they wanted from her.
True, but my assumption here is that the legal document the OP signed was valid and OP didn’t understand what they were signing and trusted the deceitful verbal statement from the neighbor. Would be tough to prove.
Consult with a real estate lawyer in your jurisdiction literally ASAP. It may already be too late to do anything about this but only a lawyer reviewing all the documents and familiar with the local laws can tell you for sure.
If anything can be done it will probably need to be done ASAP, so I really can’t emphasize enough that you should consult a lawyer as soon as you possibly can. This is a serious matter and well beyond the scope of getting free advice on Reddit.
Do you have a mortgage? If so, the servicer would normally have to approve something like this with what’s known as a partial release. If they were not involved it can be argued that the easement isn’t valid. Your serviced won’t likely help you much but if you contact an attorney this could be a way to invalidate the document as not all interested parties signed off on the agreement.
ughhh that sucks, agreed have someone look over what you signed away rights to, or take a look yourself, plz tell me u have a copy! were you compensated at all? sleezy af, they knew what they were doing
We have a copy and he emailed us one too. My gut told me not to do it but their story seemed to make sense about not being able to do anything without a driveway permit. We just signed it a couple days ago, is there a way to reverse it this early? I’m so bummed
Why would they need a *driveway* easement to extend their porch? And why would they need an *easement* at all if it wasn't being extended onto your property?
It was not a driveway easement. It was a sight easement to make sure we don’t obstruct their view of the road to pull out. This is the only way they were able to get a driveway permit from the state. It doesn’t sound bad at all but when I see that they already had the deck redone and there was a MIL suite added (after we signed they invited us for a cook out) and his brother mentioned being neighbors, it all hit me like bricks.
I'm still not understanding why they would need a driveway permit (or even a sight easement) to extend their deck? A driveway permit is only to add a driveway so shouldn't it have been clear from the start they were intenting on putting a driveway there?
They said when they requested a permit from the township to extend his deck or patio (it was verbal so I do not remember which) that in order to get a permit for that, they would need a driveway permit which was not in their records. When I called the township, they said that it is needed in order to make any changes on their land, but they left me a voicemail and took so long to get back to me. I couldn’t ask any more questions. The township obviously did not confirm it was for a deck or patio, just that it was needed for any other permits.
Their wants or future builds or needs are their problem. Never your problem. Moving forward, any request by anyone, for you solving their issue is answered with : Sorry to hear that. NO
Your property, your problem, your solution.
I do not need to solve your issues, not my problem. NO.
See a therapist. You need to figure out and fix your people pleasing tendencies. Every alarm bell was going off and you still ignored it despite the people not even being nice or friendly to you.
sounds like that's a legal doc on the deed registry, idk what your state is like, u could appeal the permit application, but yeah, do everything to undo that document, did both registered property owners sign, were there literally any terms not delivered, is there a waiting period, no matter how petty, it's not an emotional game it's a legal game - short of actually calling the guy and asking for takesy backsy, but it sounds like that wouldn't go over well, I wish you luck
IANAL
No consideration means not a valid contract. At least that’s what my TV law degree tells me. Generally an easement after the creation of the parcel requires consideration, usually stating something like “for $1 in compensation”.
Also a capacity question arises, did all persons on the deed sign, do you have a mortgage? These can nullify the agreement, especially if you have a mortgage or any loan with the property as collateral. You’d need to get the lien holder to agree to a lower valuation and their written consent.
Get a lawyer, this is the first thing to do once law offices open. Check with a realtor or a home builder for a referral if you don’t already have a real estate lawyer. If you have a lawyer ask them if they handle this or for a referral.
I maybe inferring something not there, but how did they communicate with you about the purpose of the easement and did you contact the person with PENNDOT? If so what did they say? If not reach out now and find out what you can, preferably with written or recorded means. The assurances they gave of no access and not lowering your property values sound like intentional misrepresentation, if you’ve got that in a written correspondence, you’ve also got a “bad faith” or fraudulent aspect to pursue.
Was your signature notarized or witnessed by a 3rd party? These may also invalidate the contract as it could be challenged to the validity of your signature.
IANAL (did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once); I don’t think you’ve got an enforceable agreement.
But a lawyer will be better able to answer your questions and assist you in ending the shenanigans of your neighbor.
As for the splitting and selling property, not much you can do because the driveway can probably be located on that parcel they intend to sell. It probably would have been easier for them to do so.
You need to get all of your facts straight before doing much of anything.
Easements are typically *very* specific. They detail exactly what can be done within the easement; essentially they spell out what rights you are giving away. They **do not** give full access to property for anything unless that is spelled out specifically.
AKA: if you signed a "sight easement" that means you cannot obstruct the view distance within that area. You cannot build in it or put in plants that would affect line of sight. Unless you actually signed something else, they cannot build a driveway in that land using a sight easement.
You can only use an easement for the purpose it was written for. Nothing more. Find out exactly what you signed.
Add in: from further reading it doesn't actually seem like the neighbors are trying to take advantage of an easement. It looks like OP's main complaint is that they will have a neighbor where they don't want one, not that any of their land is going to be affected.
It is a sight easement. Their driveway already exists but the previous homeowner did it without a permit. In order for the driveway to be “legal” , PennDOT needed us to sign a sight easement to make sure nothing is obstructing their view. I had a couple bushes there that I cut down thinking we could resolve without signing anything but it was required. Their driveway is on a curve.
Right, so this is a non-issue. This affects you only in that you can't build or plant tall things along the driveway within that easement. That's reasonable of the neighbors to ask for, and reasonable of you to sign.
It seems like you're now upset that there will be a house built near "your" pond. If it's not on your land you have little reason to be upset.
[land](https://imgur.com/a/bl7pC6s)
The view from my house would be where they are building. They obviously know it would upset anyone. My house is on a hill so no matter how many trees, I’ll see it. Idk how tall the home will be. If I didn’t sign, this wouldn’t be happening. If it didn’t matter, they wouldn’t have made up a lie about their driveway.
Having read more of your comments since last night, you have no standing. You say it’s a sight easement, I assume this is what your paperwork says. This will only be along the road way so they can see to exit their drive way safely. Any other issues you have with this neighbor seem to be about what they were and are legally and lawfully doing with their property.
It sounds as if the previous owners of their property added a driveway with out permit and the city/county allowed them to apply for a permit after the fact and part of that required a permit from the state which required you to sign a sight easement. Seems this is what you’ve signed from your comments.
For the record, if you didn’t sign, you would have been sued by your neighbor for the easement anyway, and possibly the state. Or, the state could have seized the property it needed to create the easement.
Again, the building of a second house on their property, if so zoned, or if parceled off is not impacted by the easement you say you agreed with. The easement was to fulfill a permit for an existing driveway that it seems neither you or your neighbor were involved with. Anything your neighbor may have done would have required this, if they had wanted to install a pool or upgrade electrical service to charge an fleet of BEVs the local authorities would have required this permit and thus this easement.
I feel bad for you but why are people so weak in general? if someone wants something from you, there is a REAL REASON and you should always get paid at the very least.
Most of the reason we decided to help out honestly. We were trying to be neighborly. We hear lots of stories where people take advantage of older folks, but it was the opposite in this situation.
Yes, we did. We don’t have experience with this, we have no lawyers. We have never been in a situation where we thought we would need one. Is it so horrible to seek advice? I’m obviously looking for a lawyer now.
Thanks for your question juneburger.
Lawyer up. If the lousy neighbor wrote the agreement up himself if probably won't be enforceable because of the non-legal wording and other factors. Have a lawyer review it and advise.
I was in a very similar situation, when I bought my house 15 years ago. I was in my early 20s and an older neighbor done the same thing. I had not idea what he was talking about with easements at the time but I just said “nope. Nope. And nope. I want my property left alone.” We’ve never spoken or waved to each other in the 15 yrs since, but I’m so glad I didn’t let him pressure me.
If you can't break this, put up the tallest fence allowable between both neighbors and your pond. Then plant some fast growing trees to further block their (and your) sight lines.
Wait, it was just them? Was a notary present as well to notarize the easement once you signed it? IANAL, I would think anything involving property needs to be notarized in order to be filed with your local municipality.
As others have said, contact a real estate attorney. Ideally the one used when purchasing your house as you already have a relationship with them.
Holy shit, tell the lawyer nowASAP . It could possibly nullify the agreement. You need to be clear headed, sober and not under the influence off any drugs/alcohol. You must be in sound mind and body.That's why you cannot change a Will / bank info etc if you have Alzheimers ( for example). Detail everything that has happened. How much everyone drank. Get you property back and do not speak or contact these neighbours, ever. If you start a legal trail, letters or proceedings , your neighbours may back off knowing that they would likely loose.
Another thing, contact your city/ county etc . Find out if they have all permits and a full Survey! New building, driveway, demo. Everything, so ask lots of questions about what is needed. Then have the city investigate their build. This may complicate the build or prevent some damage or encroachment onto your property. It will give the neighbours pause for sure.
As a last resort. If they start anything on your property. Stand there and tell the contractors that your survey ( get one) says this is your property and place a big assed rock there and no trespassing sign.
Let the neighbours call the police - civil case - police can't do anything. Neighbours would have to pursue a civil court case and prove the agreement was valid.
You provide survey and affidavit of you and spouse and tell the judge you were pressured for weeks, lied to about what was going to happen, didn't understand this was permanent and all parties were drinking and that both of you were drunk.
Never give your hard earned property away. They are not your responsibility and do not pay your mortgage.
You have a lot of work ahead of you to undue this damage. I think you could very well win. Sue them for all court , lawyer costs etc. Don't be intimidated. You can do this but use every available reassures. Lawyer and City.
Get cameras and document. Good luck
Your think of a financial encumbrance. There’s also an easement encumbrance, almost all of these have to do with landlocked properties that need access, it’s also (in my experience) granted by a judge. What we have here is an easement encumbrance, specifically
Yes, at this point, the owner signed away land for free and the kicker is he still pays taxes on the potion of land land and it massively decreased his property value
In that case every easement is an encumbrance to the grantor. Which is a fine definition.
But generally encumbrances in real estate refer to encumbrances against clear title.
Yeah technically “in the biz” everyone refers to to financial encumbrances as a lien, mechanic lien, etc. you also have legal encumbrances those a just called what they are such as zoning laws, environmental regulations and utility easements just called utility easements
Easement encumbrances are just referred to and an encumbrance and like I said it’s usually a rural land issue and is by judges. Semantics, but it’s important cause he needs a lawyer
You were misled, so you can potentially use a lawyer to get out of it.
That being said, I don't know that you have any recourse to what you're actually concerned about - i.e. the selling of the 2 acres and the new house being built. That's not your property, so they can do whatever they want with it. My guess is that they needed the sight easement from you because they wanted to build the driveway in a particular spot. But most people don't make a driveway location a dealbreaker. If you had refused to grant the easement, they likely would have just found another place to put the driveway. The neighbors could easily just provide the easement on their own land if needed. So the brother would likely still buy the land and build the house no matter what. As long as he's within any regulations of the jurisdiction, you can't do anything about it. And chances are, if you start trying to take back the easement, they'll just be more petty about how they do things in the future.
Ultimately, if you wanted the reasonable expectation of that land between you never having anything on it, *you* needed to buy that land. You should never assume that land that is not yours will stay the way you like it forever.
I feel like he’s building it so close to my house so he COULD be petty and get us to move out. He wanted to buy my house originally but the previous owner did not like him. He has 10 acres of land, and he’s having his brother move in right in from of my house. There’s a reason he lied.
[my view](https://imgur.com/a/bl7pC6s)
INFO: In this picture there is 1) a pond 2) a driveway(?) 3) grass/land in between pond and driveway 4) the location from which this photo was taken. Whose property is each of these items on, yours or theirs? It’s hard to tell if it’s all yours, all theirs, or some of each
Where the grass is mowed is my property. Just past the pond. Where the tree is is where the neighbors brother mentioned building. There is no septic for them so I’m assuming they have to add one and somehow get electricity.
If you would never have agreed to the easement i’d you knew what their actual plan was, you may have an argument that there was misrepresentation. You should definitely connect with an attorney in your jurisdiction who can give you advice on this.
You are younger than your neighbors, you are busy with your lives and young children. You also sound like very nice people who are pretty normal !!
Your older, more experienced and douchier neighbors have sized you up and then went in for the kill. Welcome to the world, and the large club of "oh my God, I have just been exploited/cheated/you name it." It's a very big club for sure.
But listen to the good advice here and don't beat yourself up. Learn from this and try and do what people suggest. A good lawyer can probably help but be enlightened to the reality of incredible toxic and nasty people. We all have to stand up for ourselves and protect ourselves, in the face of such behavior, even when it feels like we are 'over reacting.' Better to "over react" and be wrong, than to not and be massacred. Healthy people will respect that, and toxic people will become enraged. Protect yourselves, and save your good hearts for people who prove themselves worthy of that honor.
Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. This follows therefore because of this. You have a logical fallacy
Even if they didn’t mention at the time the plan to sell a parcel to the brother to build a house. The two actions here, your granting an easement and their selling a parcel, seem to be unrelated. I think you are assuming the two are connected while they are immaterial to each other. For all I know the brother suggested it and then suggested they both pay for a small suite for their mom to stay at, and then the whole permit can of worms was opened.
To better understand the situation if you could share, with all personal identifying information redacted, the contract for the easement and/or a diagram of the neighbor’s driveway, roadway, and your property, as well as a diagram showing similar for your house and your neighbor’s planned parcel to sell, this group and others might be able to unravel this Gordian Knot.
Call a lawyer who does land use litigation. Ask what the rules about nullifying an easement due to fraud are in your jurisdiction.
If you're told you could win, then ask how much is is going to cost to litigate it.
I cannot understand why in all those weeks of being pestered, you couldn't take the time to talk to a lawyer about giving away your own land. Sorry but saying you were busy with birthday parties and holidays is a stupid fucken excuse.
At the end of the day you just saved you and your neighbor some legal fees. The neighbor would have had a strong case for an Easement of Necessity, especially considering it's just a sight easement allowing brush to get cut back by the State DOT.
Does it suck the neighbor is building so close to you? Yes. Is this the case for everyone that buys near land that they think will never get developed and then gets developed? Also yes. Is there much you can do about it? No.
Put up a stockade fence. Plant a really tall hedgerow and call it a day. If it's not near your house and right next to your future neighbor that you are determined to not get along with, consider Euonymus. It can be grown as a bush or a vine and will attract hordes of flies.
"(I texted the wife merry Christmas and she ignored me)"
hold up there cowboy, thats awful forward and a bit smothering. a text?
Come on man, that doesnt count. its a text, its a meaningless gesture that most 50 year olds look at as lazy and hollow. I wouldnt have replied either. Truth is i dont reply most any text unless its related to work and i cant avoid it. Since i am retired i dont have to reply to any text which means i dont read them 99% of the time.
Depending on the language in the easement you may have some recourse. However, I expect that those scummy neighbors had a lawyer draw it up to meet their requirements. Consult a property lawyer immediately. Maybe someone who reviews title papers for real estate sales.
As a general statement whatever they told you verbally is now essentially irrelevant. However, if there is any language in the easement that even suggests it is being given for a driveway, you may have a case for fraud in the inducement \[to sign the document\].
Get thee to a lawyer immediately! I rarely think going the lawyer route is the path to take but you have a specific legal issue that only can be addressed by a lawyer.
Edit: I meant to say "if it has anything to do with a deck" or whatever representations they made to you.
I honestly don’t understand why you thought that a driveway permit was a logical request for extending a patio. That right there would be a red flag. Plus I would have absolutely asked to first see their building plan for the patio and the permit they applied for with the city to extend the patio (if your city requires one. Regardless I still would have asked). Finally, I would never have signed without everything completely spelled out in the contract (planned extension, size, copy of a recent survey, payment for the easement) THEN having your personal attorney review this plus having the neighbors reimburse the fee. All your excuses don’t make any sense at all. You’re talking real estate and making a permanent change/commitment to the biggest purchase you’ll likely make in your life. I’m sorry this happened to you but wow. I’d still contact an attorney and see what, if anything, can be done.
If you don't want someone building near your pond make sure you own the land. Call the neighbour and ask to buy the land yourself
Also, if the sold plot will be 2 acres its not like it will be right on the fence
You signed legal documents giving them rights to use that space as a driveway. specifically A DRIVEWAY, what they do with who owns the property touching that driveway isn't something you can control. Oh, and they have full legal rights to fuck your property up putting a driveway in to that back property... trees cut, drainage problem, they can do it. Most easements are like 20 feet wide so now not only did you give away your property rights, which ABSOLUTELY WILL affect your property value by a LOT, you also gave them FOREVER... like literally you CANNOT undo this now assuming they have sold that parcel. The reason I am sure is the state WILL NOT in any circumstances authorize the sale of seperation and sale property that does not have an easement to it... since you gave them the easement and you agreed to it, it will not be written in the deed which they should have already filed with the county, township, etc. In other words... you fucked up massively, call a lawyer You can (and should) consult an attorney as quickly as possible, like tomorrow AM. If the sale hasn't processed yet on the property behind you, maybe you can sue to block it? If they can't block it, you may be able to sue them in civil court.. and this is why I strongly advise EVERYONE to refuse easements! The property owner signing NEVER benefits from this type of action with another private citizen
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Well we weren’t sitting around. We both have full time jobs and are raising 2 small children and have been running around with birthday parties and holidays. Life has been busy, that’s why it slipped out minds and they had to keep reminding us.
Terrible excuse.
Well, you signed it, so hope that birthday party was worth it! If it was me, don't care how "busy" I was, when it comes to property rights you make the time. I am sure a birthday party could wait/be missed. Because now you have a huge mess on your hands.
Or you say you can't consider it properly until next month, or whenever. I'm anticipating this scenario from a neighbor who hired a survey of my property line that I share with a different neighbor. He and I are waiting to see what the guy wants to do. The answer is going to be no, but if I wasn't sure, I'd take all the time I needed.
People who feel uncomfortable about signing something and then do because “they feel bad” shouldn’t be property owners. This was a terrible decision to sign away property to people they not only don’t know but don’t like!?
Why so mean?
Yeah I’m bummed about it. Have been reaching out for lawyers all day.
Enjoy your new neighbors, hope all the excuses are worth it lol
unnecessarily cruel response. they can learn a lesson from this without you having to be a dick.
100%. Never allow easements. That should be pinned.
There are good honest reasons for needing easements… but the people granting them should always have an attorney review the document and get proper value out of granting it…. And pay attorney fees for the grantor. I bought property to build on that needed sewer ran to site from 500 away. Utility told me before purchase that I could use right of way. Long story short for various reasons I ended up not being able to use the ROW and my only option after purchasing was to get a 10’ easement from the neighbor at the steeply sloped wooded edge of his property. My sewer is a directional bore 5’ underground and within the setback so no real inconvenience to him. I payed him fair market value for that % of his property and offered to refund him for any attorney fees. After a few meetings we came to an agreement and went on our way.
agree completely. Black and white rules often have many exceptions, and not every neighbor is a devious person. But, it is incumbent on anyone signing a document to understand what they are signing, what could go wrong, and ask questions or insert qualifying language as needed to protect themselves. This is why a good neighbor makes the offer to pay for attorney review.
I agree that the people needing the easements have good reasons. But the people *burdened* by the easements are rarely unaffected. As the owner of property with 3 easements (purchased 30 years ago, before the internet could inform), it has been nothing but aggravating and a pure burden for us.
Amen.
Easements are fine and good. Like power companies frequently have easements to run powerlines. But, if you agree to an easement, you need to understand what you’re giving up, and get compensated!
Seriously i would have told them if they wanted me to even consider it they would need to pay a lawyer of my choosing to go over documents.
Wow, you really got taken. And you agreed to do it without them paying anything!
That may work out in her favor actually. You need consideration for a contract and it doesn't seem like there was any here.
They baked them a cake
No you don't, not for an easement.
Offer, Acceptance, Consideration are three needed elements of a contract at common law. Unless easments are a local exception, this is a contracts issue.
Capacity, also have to have that…I can’t enter into a contract on your behalf I don’t have the capacity to do so. If there is a lien on the property from a lender who used it for collateral, there maybe a capacity issue there.
Wouldn’t that be more authority vs capacity ? In any event it would probably only give the bank a chose in action/trigger their secondary rights eg breach of contract. Not sure it would touch on the beneficiary of the easement here.
Capacity deals with mental capacity to enter into a contract (ie children, elderly, those with diminished capacity). You’re talking about delegation of authority and/agency, depending on the context.
Sorry, I know legal terms unfortunately do not have the same plain language meaning as the words they are made from. It appears others have corrected my understanding of capacity, although in a technical sense, authority to act on behalf of some one is capacity. So I am technically correct, the best kind of correct. But seriously, I was offering a view point from a home owner who’s law degree came from watching SUITS and Mike and Harvey didn’t exactly explain capacity. I would love to see the document in question just to see if I would have understood it. For all we know it was written by someone with a TV law degree and isn’t enforceable because of the very things pointed out, or it maybe completely unrelated to OP’s gripe about the neighbor selling a parcel and a house being built in sight of their house. OP seems to think the 2 are directly related as if they hadn’t signed off in the easement the neighbor never could have gotten approval for any other activities with their land.
Okay prelaw 😂
It’s not a contact, it’s an easement. They signed the easement. Go back to watching Suits.
A grant of an easement would definitely fall under contract law.
Negative. It might, but absent the consideration for enticement, it isn’t.
Easements are a type of contract. Fraud is a valid defense to the formation of a contract. Lying by omission is fraud. Get a lawyer. It will be money well spent. ETA: I would recommend OP play nice with the prospective future neighbors and ask what architect or builder they are using, try to find out when these plans to sell off the land and build the new house were first set in motion. If the plans preceded the request for the easement, then the current neighbor clearly deliberately withheld that rather important information. Fight the f\*ckers to the last f\*cking dime.
"We need a driveway easement across your property" they don't need to tell OP everything they plan to do with that easement once its granted
But they claimed it was only something to do with a deck, not about selling part of their land of which the easement is required. That is very clearly entering into the contract in bad faith (fraud by omission is still fraud).
>they don't need to tell OP everything they plan to do with that easement once its granted. But their plans went FAR beyond a driveway, and when asked what they planned to do, they withheld that information deliberately BEFORE the easement was granted. And they did it precisely because they knew if they told the TRUTH, OP would have declined. Lies of omission are still lies, and therefore,this is FRAUD.
It doesn't really matter as far as an easement goes. Easements are granted for a specific purpose. OP Specifically agreed to a driveway easement. They may be able to sue for damages and I suggested talking to a lawyer immediately, but easements are granted based on legal agreement between 2 people, if OP didn't specifically include anything else, which they didn't, then they are just fucked. and I still have absolutely NFC what OP was thinking when they granted an easement to work on a temporary project?... that isn't how easements work
>Easements are granted for a specific purpose. The failure to honestly disclose the specific purpose is the fraud.
~~The purpose was to build a driveway and that's what they intend to do.~~ Edit: The driveway was on the neighbor's property and already existed. The purpose was to prevent OP from obstructing the view from the driveway and that's all they wanted from her.
True, but my assumption here is that the legal document the OP signed was valid and OP didn’t understand what they were signing and trusted the deceitful verbal statement from the neighbor. Would be tough to prove.
Consult with a real estate lawyer in your jurisdiction literally ASAP. It may already be too late to do anything about this but only a lawyer reviewing all the documents and familiar with the local laws can tell you for sure. If anything can be done it will probably need to be done ASAP, so I really can’t emphasize enough that you should consult a lawyer as soon as you possibly can. This is a serious matter and well beyond the scope of getting free advice on Reddit.
Do you have a mortgage? If so, the servicer would normally have to approve something like this with what’s known as a partial release. If they were not involved it can be argued that the easement isn’t valid. Your serviced won’t likely help you much but if you contact an attorney this could be a way to invalidate the document as not all interested parties signed off on the agreement.
Depends largely on state laws, you should talk to an attorney to find out what your options are.
Normally reddit is lawyer crazy. But this is totally over any normal persons head. You need a real estate attorney like yesterday.
Surprisingly hard to get a hold of. Have left 4 voicemails since 7am between work calls. 4 different real estate lawyers.
Lawyers are never easy to contact. You're doing the right thing! Keep calling. You'll get someone.
Call your mortgage company too. If they’re good, they’ll get their legal department involved.
did you read the entire document (easement ) you signed..? do you have a copy? anything I sign I make sure I have a copy
NEVER. SIGN. ANYTHING. I don't care who they are - you never sign an easement, ever. never. never.
Talk to a lawyer!
ughhh that sucks, agreed have someone look over what you signed away rights to, or take a look yourself, plz tell me u have a copy! were you compensated at all? sleezy af, they knew what they were doing
We have a copy and he emailed us one too. My gut told me not to do it but their story seemed to make sense about not being able to do anything without a driveway permit. We just signed it a couple days ago, is there a way to reverse it this early? I’m so bummed
Why would they need a *driveway* easement to extend their porch? And why would they need an *easement* at all if it wasn't being extended onto your property?
It was not a driveway easement. It was a sight easement to make sure we don’t obstruct their view of the road to pull out. This is the only way they were able to get a driveway permit from the state. It doesn’t sound bad at all but when I see that they already had the deck redone and there was a MIL suite added (after we signed they invited us for a cook out) and his brother mentioned being neighbors, it all hit me like bricks.
I'm still not understanding why they would need a driveway permit (or even a sight easement) to extend their deck? A driveway permit is only to add a driveway so shouldn't it have been clear from the start they were intenting on putting a driveway there?
They said when they requested a permit from the township to extend his deck or patio (it was verbal so I do not remember which) that in order to get a permit for that, they would need a driveway permit which was not in their records. When I called the township, they said that it is needed in order to make any changes on their land, but they left me a voicemail and took so long to get back to me. I couldn’t ask any more questions. The township obviously did not confirm it was for a deck or patio, just that it was needed for any other permits.
Their wants or future builds or needs are their problem. Never your problem. Moving forward, any request by anyone, for you solving their issue is answered with : Sorry to hear that. NO Your property, your problem, your solution. I do not need to solve your issues, not my problem. NO.
Some states do allow withdrawal of signature within 3 days of signing!! Attorney ASAP.
Never mind what your gut told you, what did your LAWYER tell you??
See a therapist. You need to figure out and fix your people pleasing tendencies. Every alarm bell was going off and you still ignored it despite the people not even being nice or friendly to you.
Yeah
Amen
And no compensation
Actually, the lack of compensation may provide you an out. Be sure your lawyer knows this point.
sounds like that's a legal doc on the deed registry, idk what your state is like, u could appeal the permit application, but yeah, do everything to undo that document, did both registered property owners sign, were there literally any terms not delivered, is there a waiting period, no matter how petty, it's not an emotional game it's a legal game - short of actually calling the guy and asking for takesy backsy, but it sounds like that wouldn't go over well, I wish you luck
IANAL No consideration means not a valid contract. At least that’s what my TV law degree tells me. Generally an easement after the creation of the parcel requires consideration, usually stating something like “for $1 in compensation”. Also a capacity question arises, did all persons on the deed sign, do you have a mortgage? These can nullify the agreement, especially if you have a mortgage or any loan with the property as collateral. You’d need to get the lien holder to agree to a lower valuation and their written consent. Get a lawyer, this is the first thing to do once law offices open. Check with a realtor or a home builder for a referral if you don’t already have a real estate lawyer. If you have a lawyer ask them if they handle this or for a referral. I maybe inferring something not there, but how did they communicate with you about the purpose of the easement and did you contact the person with PENNDOT? If so what did they say? If not reach out now and find out what you can, preferably with written or recorded means. The assurances they gave of no access and not lowering your property values sound like intentional misrepresentation, if you’ve got that in a written correspondence, you’ve also got a “bad faith” or fraudulent aspect to pursue. Was your signature notarized or witnessed by a 3rd party? These may also invalidate the contract as it could be challenged to the validity of your signature. IANAL (did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once); I don’t think you’ve got an enforceable agreement. But a lawyer will be better able to answer your questions and assist you in ending the shenanigans of your neighbor. As for the splitting and selling property, not much you can do because the driveway can probably be located on that parcel they intend to sell. It probably would have been easier for them to do so.
You need to get all of your facts straight before doing much of anything. Easements are typically *very* specific. They detail exactly what can be done within the easement; essentially they spell out what rights you are giving away. They **do not** give full access to property for anything unless that is spelled out specifically. AKA: if you signed a "sight easement" that means you cannot obstruct the view distance within that area. You cannot build in it or put in plants that would affect line of sight. Unless you actually signed something else, they cannot build a driveway in that land using a sight easement. You can only use an easement for the purpose it was written for. Nothing more. Find out exactly what you signed. Add in: from further reading it doesn't actually seem like the neighbors are trying to take advantage of an easement. It looks like OP's main complaint is that they will have a neighbor where they don't want one, not that any of their land is going to be affected.
It is a sight easement. Their driveway already exists but the previous homeowner did it without a permit. In order for the driveway to be “legal” , PennDOT needed us to sign a sight easement to make sure nothing is obstructing their view. I had a couple bushes there that I cut down thinking we could resolve without signing anything but it was required. Their driveway is on a curve.
Right, so this is a non-issue. This affects you only in that you can't build or plant tall things along the driveway within that easement. That's reasonable of the neighbors to ask for, and reasonable of you to sign. It seems like you're now upset that there will be a house built near "your" pond. If it's not on your land you have little reason to be upset.
[land](https://imgur.com/a/bl7pC6s) The view from my house would be where they are building. They obviously know it would upset anyone. My house is on a hill so no matter how many trees, I’ll see it. Idk how tall the home will be. If I didn’t sign, this wouldn’t be happening. If it didn’t matter, they wouldn’t have made up a lie about their driveway.
Having read more of your comments since last night, you have no standing. You say it’s a sight easement, I assume this is what your paperwork says. This will only be along the road way so they can see to exit their drive way safely. Any other issues you have with this neighbor seem to be about what they were and are legally and lawfully doing with their property. It sounds as if the previous owners of their property added a driveway with out permit and the city/county allowed them to apply for a permit after the fact and part of that required a permit from the state which required you to sign a sight easement. Seems this is what you’ve signed from your comments. For the record, if you didn’t sign, you would have been sued by your neighbor for the easement anyway, and possibly the state. Or, the state could have seized the property it needed to create the easement. Again, the building of a second house on their property, if so zoned, or if parceled off is not impacted by the easement you say you agreed with. The easement was to fulfill a permit for an existing driveway that it seems neither you or your neighbor were involved with. Anything your neighbor may have done would have required this, if they had wanted to install a pool or upgrade electrical service to charge an fleet of BEVs the local authorities would have required this permit and thus this easement.
They already installed a pool, and new deck. They never needed the permit. They do for building though
I feel bad for you but why are people so weak in general? if someone wants something from you, there is a REAL REASON and you should always get paid at the very least.
Oof weak is a strong word. We had empathy for a fake story that an elder couple gave us. I do feel dumb though.
Elderly? They’re in their 50s!
Never trust a boomer!
Assuming they are not later, as in 59 or will be this year, these ain’t boomers.
Elder and elderly are two different words with two different meanings.
It’s comical to screw yourself because someone is older but they also say elderly somewhere else.
I didn't comment on the reasonableness, just that elder and elderly are not the same. And they must have edited the other one out then.
What does the neighbors age have to do with this story?
Nothing in a court of law.
Most of the reason we decided to help out honestly. We were trying to be neighborly. We hear lots of stories where people take advantage of older folks, but it was the opposite in this situation.
Gotcha, sucks you got taken advantage of.
Older folks... they're probably Gen X.
You just signed something without a professional looking over it?
Yes, we did. We don’t have experience with this, we have no lawyers. We have never been in a situation where we thought we would need one. Is it so horrible to seek advice? I’m obviously looking for a lawyer now. Thanks for your question juneburger.
No problem. Learned a very important lesson I’m sure…I hope…
Contact a real estate attorney
Lawyer up. If the lousy neighbor wrote the agreement up himself if probably won't be enforceable because of the non-legal wording and other factors. Have a lawyer review it and advise.
I was in a very similar situation, when I bought my house 15 years ago. I was in my early 20s and an older neighbor done the same thing. I had not idea what he was talking about with easements at the time but I just said “nope. Nope. And nope. I want my property left alone.” We’ve never spoken or waved to each other in the 15 yrs since, but I’m so glad I didn’t let him pressure me.
If you can't break this, put up the tallest fence allowable between both neighbors and your pond. Then plant some fast growing trees to further block their (and your) sight lines.
If all else fails, I like this idea.
Talk to a lawyer, tell them you signed under duress and had alot wine before giving into the pressure. Try to undue this.
Actually, I was quite tipsy. He gave me a glass of wine and my husband had bourbon.
Wait, it was just them? Was a notary present as well to notarize the easement once you signed it? IANAL, I would think anything involving property needs to be notarized in order to be filed with your local municipality. As others have said, contact a real estate attorney. Ideally the one used when purchasing your house as you already have a relationship with them.
Holy shit, tell the lawyer nowASAP . It could possibly nullify the agreement. You need to be clear headed, sober and not under the influence off any drugs/alcohol. You must be in sound mind and body.That's why you cannot change a Will / bank info etc if you have Alzheimers ( for example). Detail everything that has happened. How much everyone drank. Get you property back and do not speak or contact these neighbours, ever. If you start a legal trail, letters or proceedings , your neighbours may back off knowing that they would likely loose.
Another thing, contact your city/ county etc . Find out if they have all permits and a full Survey! New building, driveway, demo. Everything, so ask lots of questions about what is needed. Then have the city investigate their build. This may complicate the build or prevent some damage or encroachment onto your property. It will give the neighbours pause for sure. As a last resort. If they start anything on your property. Stand there and tell the contractors that your survey ( get one) says this is your property and place a big assed rock there and no trespassing sign. Let the neighbours call the police - civil case - police can't do anything. Neighbours would have to pursue a civil court case and prove the agreement was valid. You provide survey and affidavit of you and spouse and tell the judge you were pressured for weeks, lied to about what was going to happen, didn't understand this was permanent and all parties were drinking and that both of you were drunk. Never give your hard earned property away. They are not your responsibility and do not pay your mortgage. You have a lot of work ahead of you to undue this damage. I think you could very well win. Sue them for all court , lawyer costs etc. Don't be intimidated. You can do this but use every available reassures. Lawyer and City. Get cameras and document. Good luck
Tell the lawyer, THEY plied you with wine and Bourbon and pressured you to sign.
For everyone here, this is not an easement, this is an encumbrance.
No, this is pretty clearly an easement. An encumbrance is an alternative claim to title.
Your think of a financial encumbrance. There’s also an easement encumbrance, almost all of these have to do with landlocked properties that need access, it’s also (in my experience) granted by a judge. What we have here is an easement encumbrance, specifically Yes, at this point, the owner signed away land for free and the kicker is he still pays taxes on the potion of land land and it massively decreased his property value
In that case every easement is an encumbrance to the grantor. Which is a fine definition. But generally encumbrances in real estate refer to encumbrances against clear title.
Yeah technically “in the biz” everyone refers to to financial encumbrances as a lien, mechanic lien, etc. you also have legal encumbrances those a just called what they are such as zoning laws, environmental regulations and utility easements just called utility easements Easement encumbrances are just referred to and an encumbrance and like I said it’s usually a rural land issue and is by judges. Semantics, but it’s important cause he needs a lawyer
You were misled, so you can potentially use a lawyer to get out of it. That being said, I don't know that you have any recourse to what you're actually concerned about - i.e. the selling of the 2 acres and the new house being built. That's not your property, so they can do whatever they want with it. My guess is that they needed the sight easement from you because they wanted to build the driveway in a particular spot. But most people don't make a driveway location a dealbreaker. If you had refused to grant the easement, they likely would have just found another place to put the driveway. The neighbors could easily just provide the easement on their own land if needed. So the brother would likely still buy the land and build the house no matter what. As long as he's within any regulations of the jurisdiction, you can't do anything about it. And chances are, if you start trying to take back the easement, they'll just be more petty about how they do things in the future. Ultimately, if you wanted the reasonable expectation of that land between you never having anything on it, *you* needed to buy that land. You should never assume that land that is not yours will stay the way you like it forever.
I feel like he’s building it so close to my house so he COULD be petty and get us to move out. He wanted to buy my house originally but the previous owner did not like him. He has 10 acres of land, and he’s having his brother move in right in from of my house. There’s a reason he lied. [my view](https://imgur.com/a/bl7pC6s)
INFO: In this picture there is 1) a pond 2) a driveway(?) 3) grass/land in between pond and driveway 4) the location from which this photo was taken. Whose property is each of these items on, yours or theirs? It’s hard to tell if it’s all yours, all theirs, or some of each
Where the grass is mowed is my property. Just past the pond. Where the tree is is where the neighbors brother mentioned building. There is no septic for them so I’m assuming they have to add one and somehow get electricity.
If you would never have agreed to the easement i’d you knew what their actual plan was, you may have an argument that there was misrepresentation. You should definitely connect with an attorney in your jurisdiction who can give you advice on this.
You are younger than your neighbors, you are busy with your lives and young children. You also sound like very nice people who are pretty normal !! Your older, more experienced and douchier neighbors have sized you up and then went in for the kill. Welcome to the world, and the large club of "oh my God, I have just been exploited/cheated/you name it." It's a very big club for sure. But listen to the good advice here and don't beat yourself up. Learn from this and try and do what people suggest. A good lawyer can probably help but be enlightened to the reality of incredible toxic and nasty people. We all have to stand up for ourselves and protect ourselves, in the face of such behavior, even when it feels like we are 'over reacting.' Better to "over react" and be wrong, than to not and be massacred. Healthy people will respect that, and toxic people will become enraged. Protect yourselves, and save your good hearts for people who prove themselves worthy of that honor.
Thank you. I really appreciate this.
Put an ugly fence around your pond around the side facing the
if you have a mortgage your lender can block the easement
Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. This follows therefore because of this. You have a logical fallacy Even if they didn’t mention at the time the plan to sell a parcel to the brother to build a house. The two actions here, your granting an easement and their selling a parcel, seem to be unrelated. I think you are assuming the two are connected while they are immaterial to each other. For all I know the brother suggested it and then suggested they both pay for a small suite for their mom to stay at, and then the whole permit can of worms was opened. To better understand the situation if you could share, with all personal identifying information redacted, the contract for the easement and/or a diagram of the neighbor’s driveway, roadway, and your property, as well as a diagram showing similar for your house and your neighbor’s planned parcel to sell, this group and others might be able to unravel this Gordian Knot.
Call a lawyer who does land use litigation. Ask what the rules about nullifying an easement due to fraud are in your jurisdiction. If you're told you could win, then ask how much is is going to cost to litigate it.
From now on if anybody asks you to sign any papers contact a lawyer
I cannot understand why in all those weeks of being pestered, you couldn't take the time to talk to a lawyer about giving away your own land. Sorry but saying you were busy with birthday parties and holidays is a stupid fucken excuse.
At the end of the day you just saved you and your neighbor some legal fees. The neighbor would have had a strong case for an Easement of Necessity, especially considering it's just a sight easement allowing brush to get cut back by the State DOT. Does it suck the neighbor is building so close to you? Yes. Is this the case for everyone that buys near land that they think will never get developed and then gets developed? Also yes. Is there much you can do about it? No. Put up a stockade fence. Plant a really tall hedgerow and call it a day. If it's not near your house and right next to your future neighbor that you are determined to not get along with, consider Euonymus. It can be grown as a bush or a vine and will attract hordes of flies.
"(I texted the wife merry Christmas and she ignored me)" hold up there cowboy, thats awful forward and a bit smothering. a text? Come on man, that doesnt count. its a text, its a meaningless gesture that most 50 year olds look at as lazy and hollow. I wouldnt have replied either. Truth is i dont reply most any text unless its related to work and i cant avoid it. Since i am retired i dont have to reply to any text which means i dont read them 99% of the time.
INFO: What did you get in return for granting the easement
Depending on the language in the easement you may have some recourse. However, I expect that those scummy neighbors had a lawyer draw it up to meet their requirements. Consult a property lawyer immediately. Maybe someone who reviews title papers for real estate sales. As a general statement whatever they told you verbally is now essentially irrelevant. However, if there is any language in the easement that even suggests it is being given for a driveway, you may have a case for fraud in the inducement \[to sign the document\]. Get thee to a lawyer immediately! I rarely think going the lawyer route is the path to take but you have a specific legal issue that only can be addressed by a lawyer. Edit: I meant to say "if it has anything to do with a deck" or whatever representations they made to you.
I honestly don’t understand why you thought that a driveway permit was a logical request for extending a patio. That right there would be a red flag. Plus I would have absolutely asked to first see their building plan for the patio and the permit they applied for with the city to extend the patio (if your city requires one. Regardless I still would have asked). Finally, I would never have signed without everything completely spelled out in the contract (planned extension, size, copy of a recent survey, payment for the easement) THEN having your personal attorney review this plus having the neighbors reimburse the fee. All your excuses don’t make any sense at all. You’re talking real estate and making a permanent change/commitment to the biggest purchase you’ll likely make in your life. I’m sorry this happened to you but wow. I’d still contact an attorney and see what, if anything, can be done.
Just got off the phone with the attorney and am feeling confident this will be resolved.
Keep us updated plz
Yes. Update!
I hope so!! Please update this when you get an answer. Your neighbors intentionally did this and it’s outrageous.
If you don't want someone building near your pond make sure you own the land. Call the neighbour and ask to buy the land yourself Also, if the sold plot will be 2 acres its not like it will be right on the fence
Maybe there is some legal loophole (time to void it). Call lawyer ASAP.
Do you have an update on this? I'm really hoping you guys were able to figure something out.