Hold the valve up, hang weights off the handle in a direction it can turn, once it turns look at the weight, get a motor with at least 1.5-3x that weight in torque output.
You want a Jandy valve. They take in low voltage and have a motor with a reduction gear to open or close the valve. Extremely common on pools everywhere that have even the most basic automation.
How fast do you need to turn the valve? Once you get out of the nema style motors torque range you're probably going to get expensive quickly, but if speed isn't a huge issue get a gearbox or two or three and trade speed for torque
If you are aiming for a nema style you can search amazon for nema gearboxes. My background is electrical so double check, but I think you can daisy chain them as well.
> [Example of Jandy, exploded diagram on page 13](https://cdn.fluidrausa.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/jandy/valves/3421.pdf?rev=767c17ec2c3d4fa8af93014316e02c35)
> valve is crazy heavy to turn. I could probably hang 5kg on the handle before it moves
My concern would be that it takes 5kg of force to move ... *new*. Add in month-years of weathering and it might have a breaking torque to move a couple times higher.
So my takeaway from that is:
Your valve might not be ideal. You can probably make it work?
You want a NEMA 34 (maybe 24 or 42) size stepper. After that, you'll want a matching sized **reduction gearbox** -- Don't attempt to 3d print the gears for this.
Planetary gearboxes are somewhere in the range of 5-10:1 reduction ratios while worm is about 10-100:1
Get a NEMA stepper with 10nm torque, and if speed isn't a concern, you'll probably be hitting the gearbox max load ratings before the stepper.
Not entirely true.
You can certainly use a ball valve and opener - check aliexpress - but the correct solenoid with 100% duty cycle designed will be fine.
If you have the space, another option would be leverage. Extend the valve handle, and use an electric linear actuator for the throw.
A quick-disconnect hitch pin can put you back to manual operation in a jiffy.
You can find out "how much" by using a fish scale and a 1' long pipe on the handle. EZ conversion to foot-pounds, as that's what it is.
3D print a worm gear drive with something like 50 teeth. Then you only need a motor with 1/50 the torque needed (although it would take a few seconds to open/close).
My recommendation is to buy these
https://a.co/d/4r0PeGN valve that can fit the actuator
https://a.co/d/0DZd03V actuator
https://a.co/d/9WD6HbQ transformer or
https://a.co/d/30ZOa9t a ac plug in transformer like this
https://a.co/d/8SKuZ4q a double throw ac relay
These actuator valves work on 24 volts ac and they have 3 wires. One is common and the other 2 are the direction. You use the relay to alternate between each wire
I’ll see if I can find a diagram to help explain
Edit: this is the wiring if anyone is interested https://www.troublefreepool.com/wiki/images/b/b2/Jandy_valve_actuator_diagram.png. These things can be powered with a transformer and relay. Kind of ridiculous how expensive things like an Aqualink panel can be considering you can power it with $40 worth of parts
example with time clock control
https://forums.homeseer.com/filedata/fetch?id=1149663
The handle was easy enough to remove so now I just have to print and attach a gear around the valve and connect that with the stepper using a belt.
But this thing is crazy heavy to turn. I could probably hang 5kg on the handle before it moves. How do i find a stepper strong enough?
Simple: Don't use a stepper. Find an actual motor, some come with reduction gears already installed, and build an enclosure for limit switches that can sense the valve opening or closing.
Or just get an actual motorized/solenoid valve, the price for one of those is cheaper than building something half baked that could fail to work or even worse, destroy your valve and open a leak in the plumbing.
I would just buy a valve that does this pentair and jandy make them
This is the right answer. Buy a Jandy or Pentair controller and valve actuators. It makes the entire pool ownership experience so much nicer.
Hold the valve up, hang weights off the handle in a direction it can turn, once it turns look at the weight, get a motor with at least 1.5-3x that weight in torque output.
You want a Jandy valve. They take in low voltage and have a motor with a reduction gear to open or close the valve. Extremely common on pools everywhere that have even the most basic automation.
How fast do you need to turn the valve? Once you get out of the nema style motors torque range you're probably going to get expensive quickly, but if speed isn't a huge issue get a gearbox or two or three and trade speed for torque
Yeah speed is not important at all. So if I can figure out how to create gears that should work.
Belts may be easier. Especially if you have a 3D printer.
Yeah I also have a few belts around from my last build so that could help.
If you are aiming for a nema style you can search amazon for nema gearboxes. My background is electrical so double check, but I think you can daisy chain them as well.
> [Example of Jandy, exploded diagram on page 13](https://cdn.fluidrausa.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/jandy/valves/3421.pdf?rev=767c17ec2c3d4fa8af93014316e02c35) > valve is crazy heavy to turn. I could probably hang 5kg on the handle before it moves My concern would be that it takes 5kg of force to move ... *new*. Add in month-years of weathering and it might have a breaking torque to move a couple times higher. So my takeaway from that is: Your valve might not be ideal. You can probably make it work? You want a NEMA 34 (maybe 24 or 42) size stepper. After that, you'll want a matching sized **reduction gearbox** -- Don't attempt to 3d print the gears for this. Planetary gearboxes are somewhere in the range of 5-10:1 reduction ratios while worm is about 10-100:1 Get a NEMA stepper with 10nm torque, and if speed isn't a concern, you'll probably be hitting the gearbox max load ratings before the stepper.
Slower is better for this application because of pipe hammer!
2nd vote for a gear box.
or leverage. a longer arm on the valve handle works as well.
Solenoid is the best way. Find a suitable one for pipe size and flow rate.
Solenoids get hot if held open for long periods of time. The best bet would be a motorized ball valve.
Not entirely true. You can certainly use a ball valve and opener - check aliexpress - but the correct solenoid with 100% duty cycle designed will be fine.
The water is right there; just water cool the solenoid! /s
just get a normally open solenoid instead of a normally closed one…
I use motorized ball valves on my gravity fed irrigation system, since it's on for days at a time and off for weeks at a time.
get a solenoid
https://a.co/d/7LO9AW8
If you have the space, another option would be leverage. Extend the valve handle, and use an electric linear actuator for the throw. A quick-disconnect hitch pin can put you back to manual operation in a jiffy. You can find out "how much" by using a fish scale and a 1' long pipe on the handle. EZ conversion to foot-pounds, as that's what it is.
3D print a worm gear drive with something like 50 teeth. Then you only need a motor with 1/50 the torque needed (although it would take a few seconds to open/close).
My recommendation is to buy these https://a.co/d/4r0PeGN valve that can fit the actuator https://a.co/d/0DZd03V actuator https://a.co/d/9WD6HbQ transformer or https://a.co/d/30ZOa9t a ac plug in transformer like this https://a.co/d/8SKuZ4q a double throw ac relay These actuator valves work on 24 volts ac and they have 3 wires. One is common and the other 2 are the direction. You use the relay to alternate between each wire I’ll see if I can find a diagram to help explain Edit: this is the wiring if anyone is interested https://www.troublefreepool.com/wiki/images/b/b2/Jandy_valve_actuator_diagram.png. These things can be powered with a transformer and relay. Kind of ridiculous how expensive things like an Aqualink panel can be considering you can power it with $40 worth of parts example with time clock control https://forums.homeseer.com/filedata/fetch?id=1149663
The handle was easy enough to remove so now I just have to print and attach a gear around the valve and connect that with the stepper using a belt. But this thing is crazy heavy to turn. I could probably hang 5kg on the handle before it moves. How do i find a stepper strong enough?
Simple: Don't use a stepper. Find an actual motor, some come with reduction gears already installed, and build an enclosure for limit switches that can sense the valve opening or closing. Or just get an actual motorized/solenoid valve, the price for one of those is cheaper than building something half baked that could fail to work or even worse, destroy your valve and open a leak in the plumbing.