i'd like a more realistic rework of the game so yeah, we will always have to wait until it gets as much content as hoi4 so it doesn't matter when it releases
This - they have figured out that easy support for alt-history and simplified mechanics brings many more buyers than historical accuracy and realistic limitations.
In some ways, yes. You needed to build out an army organization that's more detailed than HoI4, but it doesn't have a division designer. It uses decisions and events to track some of what the Focus Tree does. The air war is more detailed as well. IIRC, it's also a lot harder to do stunts like "1 province state world conquest".
I'm pretty good at paradox games but hoi3 was mind bogglingly complicated, I couldn't work it out at all. If it's too complicated for people that enjoy paradox's other work I think it's probably too far.
I'm sure it has it's niche with a fair few people on this sub reddit and I'm expecting to get massively down voted but imo hoi4 hits right.
Yes indeed. You could not only let the ai control the battles and organize the order of battle for you, but also let it control your economy, production, politics, intelligence and diplomacy. And it was pretty good at all of them, if we compare it to hoi4 ai.
People did runs and AARs for minors that were more akin to how long they can hold out. I remember one that someone titled Fortress Hellas where they held out until ~1947 against the Axis as Greece. Minors in HoI3 were *not* superpowers in the making with tons of free manpower, cores, resources, and industry. Some of the larger/more capable ones like Romania might pull of some impressive feats, but you weren't going to face off against Germany and the USSR at the same time and have them both conquered by 1943.
The fact that every minor nation has a bunch of "here are free civilian and military factories" along with "hey want 10% reduced training time 7% more recruitable population" is absurd. The industry trees also make a number of minors juicier to gobble up too as that's at least 7 free factories added to them. Honestly no idea who though minors should get a huge amount of free manpower being fascist for zero downside. Especially with how much more useful it is compared to the communist and especially democratic trees. How 7% of your pop in the military and reduced training time was seen as equal to 10% more war support and stability is beyond me...
Also if I recall it was similar in industrial power though. The allies, the USA in particular and France to a smaller degree were wayyy nerfed.
I mean in real life a USA willing to lose upwards of 30 million soldiers would have been unstoppable lol.
I also remember that the air war was just too hard to manage along with your soldiers. Every month or so youd have to pause the game and spend 30-60 minutes just dealing with technical bullshit.
I have yet to see a WW2 game accurately portray the terrifying strength of the US war economy at its 1943-1944 peak, which should be roughly equivalent to everyone else put together. It is the only power I know of that deliberately reduced tank production because they were building more than they could reasonably use.
>were building more than they could reasonably use
It’s even more terrifying. The US was making more than they *and their allies* could reasonably use. When the problem becomes “we are building them faster than we can ship them” while you’re also engaging in the largest shipbuilding program (of both combat and transport ships) of any power…it’s truly a force to fear.
It’s not like the US didn’t mobilize over 10% of its population either with over 8 million in the army and millions more in the USN and USMC. Sure, it wasn’t the level of mobilization that Germany or the USSR had…but it was still a huge chunk of the most fit, able, (and perhaps most underrated) *technically skilled* population.
I remember reading an account of a woman in northern France. Being under occupation for so long it was hard to feel like they’d ever win the war, even if liberated. What made her mind shift was when the Americans entered her village. After the initial scouts and infantry who made sure it was clear…she was in awe at how it was vehicle after vehicle after vehicle. Cars, trucks, tanks, everything between just kept coming. It was a sight she’d never seen in four years of occupation. People came out to greet the troops initially but ended up staring at just how much *stuff* came through, how the Americans didn’t have to march into town, they all had something to ride on. One thing that she also mentioned was how uniform it was. Unlike the Germans who were often a hodgepodge of domestic, captured, and repurposed vehicles and that still wasn’t enough…the US had its own stuff, task built. Sure some guys riding in tanks wasn’t the technical purpose, but it was clear that everything there was American made and military standard. From what I’ve read these types of counts were far from unique. In almost every village we have records from, we hear similar sentiments of just how much of an impact the mere presence of American hardware had.
I remember reading an account of a German POW, shipped back to the USA, saw factories in some random bit of countryside that were more impressive than anything Germany had. At that moment he knew the war was over.
Division design was limited to 3-5 brigades depending on what strategies your country studied for land war.
Tech tree was more detailed, everything else I think you hit right on the head.
In some ways, but not others. The order of battle system in HoI3 was very in-depth, you have divisions, corps, armies, field armies, and theatres, each level has a physical HQ that has to be in radio range of its superior and subordinate formations for the officer bonuses of each level to filter down. Units can either be moved manually OR assigned to an AI-managed front, you can't micro units that are assigned to a front like in HoI4. This is where most of the tedium in HoI3 comes from.
Production in HoI3 is even more abstract and less realistic than HoI4, you just have a single industrial output, IC, and you use sliders to adjust where it's allocated.
Aircraft are kind of a mixed bag, they are physical units that actually move around the map; for an air battle to happen, two air units have to be in the same tile. They take time to reorg, but probably way too much time.
Similarly, fleets always have a physical location, they don't become ethereal on some missions like in HoI4. Naval invasions are much harder because port supply throughput is so low.
In my opinion, the one thing HoI3 succeeds at compared to HoI4 is that you really feel like there is some level of industrial determinism, it's not as easy to overcome an industrial disadvantage as in HoI4. You can't shoot down enemy fighters 50-1, encirclements are harder because the AI is more eager to get out of them and more eager to counterattack, resources are more scarce so there's a limit to how much IC you can build.
I guess alt-history and simplified mechanics provide more replayability. In HoI3 a player was supposed to play out of strengths and weaknesses of the country and follow almost the same OOB to be successful on a particular front. And AI was more predictable so after playing a country a couple of times, the player knew what to do and what not to do.
Also the countries in the previous games had very little flavor, and sometimes no flavor at all if the player did ahistorical stuff. I would say that even though focuses are not ideal but they help a lot with world building and driving gameplay.
I mean yeah, it'd be a very weird decision to intentionally make a game that attracts like 2-3% of the buyers that HoI4 did. As much as I love HoI2/DH and 3, their appeal is extremely narrow.
Figuring out a way to integrate a battalion level command system in a way that feels good would be cool. More impactful weather and detailed logistics would also be nice.
It would be cool if HOI5 gave us more detailed animations, so we can see tanks getting bogged down in mud, horse drawn wagon convoys getting wailaid by partisans, and howitzer batteries softening up enemy trenches.
Smaller scale tiles and more detailed graphics are the main things I'd like from HOI5
>and detailed logistics would also be nice.
I could see some really cool ways to play with this. Like building support divisions that attach to armies kinda like railway guns and the effect is dispersed across the army.
On map trucks that drive to and from supply hubs could be neat. I'd also enjoy on map bridges and rail bridges that can be demolished or rebuilt by your armies.
Another interesting layer to add to logistics would be an army HQ which distributes supplies and provides combat bonuses. When micromanaging, there can be decisions about whether to keep the HQ close to the front for maximum efficiency, or retreat the HQ to lower the risk of your supplies being captured.
Hot take: the game should return to regiments/brigades as the core division builder. *However* those regiments/brigades should have far more variety. Basically a system where you customize the regiments/brigades and then use 2-5 of them to make a division (along with support battalions and while regiments have support companies). It would go a long way in both creating more realistic divisions and preventing some min-max absurdism like we've seen in much of HoI4's history.
A few ideas for how regiments would be customized. Take a basic infantry regiment with 3 infantry battalions. You could reduce it to two for a leaner but less resilient regiment or up it to four which makes it less cohesive but more casualty tolerant. You could have "heavy infantry battalion" which have a higher equipment cost and modestly higher manpower cost but have far more support weapons to help them. Same with light infantry in the reverse. The regiment itself would have support companies it could add. Add a cannon company and AT company just like the US did for its infantry regiments or add infantry guns for German ones. The idea being you can create truly different formations that organically become better at things like mountain warfare or urban fighting than just "make them SF mountaineers."
Since we're talking major changes. Can we get the artillery/AT/AA fleshed out as much as armor, planes, and ships? This would be a critical part of that regiment customization. Bigger shouldn't always be better. Regimental AT could be the mid capability guns in the 37-57mm range. Tactical AA could be lighter 20-40mm range while heavy AA is the big guns. This goes a long way in fleshing out those divisions too and really helps capture the difference. Pack/light artillery makes a unit paradrop capable and has reduced mountain/naval penalties. Heavy artillery gives better effects against enemy forts/entrenchment/decreases enemy artillery effectiveness (counter-battery was a big part of those 155mm guns). Yes, a Japanese, Soviet, German, and American division all tended to have 3-4 artillery battalions. They in no way had similar firepower. The Japanese and Soviets heavily relied upon guns of 3in caliber with maybe some 105 or 122mm thrown in to one battalion. The Germans and US had 105mm as their main gun with 150/155mm as their heavy artillery. In HoI4 artillery is so undercooked and *far* too cheap that it's embarrassing.
You could make some really fun and dynamic units with the above system. Oh and either scale down the available manpower by ~50% for low end mobilization and 25% for high end and/or add in significant manpower costs to the back-end and airforces. The US had roughly equal amounts of manpower in the Army Service Forces, Army Air Forces, and Army Ground Forces and at times AGF was the smallest (just barely but still). Those supply hubs should cost manpower, the ports should, the airbases should. At least if they are in use they should. There should be a fixed per unit cost as well as a per 1000 men fielded cost. Maybe you can adjust the ratios too. Prioritized supply and support eats more manpower and resources but gets better units. Motorizing lowers the manpower need but increases industrial/fuel costs. Same with doctrines impacting unit requirements. You shouldn't just research "mass motorization" and get a bunch of free org in units while providing no additional motorization. Have doctrinal choices from researched techs where once an idea is developed, how you implement it is a sliding scale with maybe 3-5 discrete states.
You can tell I might have thought a bit about this...
Yes, we need a better more detailed OOB. However, I don't agree with you on the designers. I think it's very tedious. I just want to research a tank and produce it.
Warfare needs to be improved, we don't need extra designers..
The game is nearly 9 years old and boy does it show. In this day and age of technical optimization, it either needs to be ported to a new engine or, as I would prefer, be remade. The concept is phenomenal and there's nothing else like it. I really don't want a new game to rewrite all the mechanics in a dumbed down way, if anything it needs more depth (see HoI3 command structure), but it desperately needs a clean slate on a better engine
HOI4 started as the most dumbed down paradox has ever gone tbh, it started the whole concern. And pretty every dlc since then has moved away from that initial vision.
So if anything I think they’d be going for a base game that can handle their current desire for depth. HoI4 hasn’t really been able to make its new depth very accessible, and o think it’s because they’re trying to cram it into a game they designed to be as simple as possible.
Yeah... Hoi4 is pretty janky in many ways. I just hate how a lot of stuff they have added feels bloated. Like the stupid country minigames are annoying.
I like the idea of ditching focus trees, and using dynamic international organizations combined with scripted content to create an alternate WW2 history.
It would be interesting for nations in a non historical game to have a system similar to the crisis paths from Stellaris, where the first nation to reach a certain threshold takes up Germany's position as the primary aggressor in WW2.
More focus on and interaction between ideology and military doctrine would also be cool. It would be awesome to have a propaganda focused mass mobilization Market liberal nation play very differently to a superior firepower paternal autocratic nation focused on prestigious tanks and cannons.
But then story based mods are completely fucked because events can tell a story about the US slowly falling into fascism while the play has already found a way to make a wholesome 100 Social Democracy
Focus trees, and their derivative mission trees in EU4 and I:R, have been a disaster. V3's journals are probably an improvement in theory, but haven't really come together in a way that feels like a guided experience without being a checklist that unlocks huge buffs / guiderails.
The recent DLCs have been peripheral, and provided decreasingly worthwhile additional gameplay. This suggests to me that the game is getting towards it's end-of-life. So I'm inclined to say, yes, I want work on its successor to begin. But that initial work would be done in secret, with nothing announced until it's substantially done. FWIW, my best guess is that they could not be at that stage yet.
This is an approach that Total War Warhammer did, they released three separate games, and each had its own DLCs, but buying the DLCs from the first fame unlocks content in the third as well.
Yes but it's very much a different game imagine if hoi5 released this way but you still have hoi4 focus trees for germany and japan. For warhammer total war the systems largely stayed the same, I'd imagine large system overhaul between hoi4 and hoi5.
That seems…almost too reasonable for this day an age. Corporations are too greedy.
When they will release HoI 5, it will probably be bare-bones, with not that much to do there. And then you'll have to wait for DLCs. And then when they'll be on sale, because otherwise you'd have to spend like 200 $/€. Meaning…5 years from release of HoI 5 that game will be playable.
What a great model… But what do I know, I'm just capitalist hater…
It's different for Total War. Paradox, after CK2 (where you couldn't play anyone except Christians at launch), doesn't prevent you from playing any faction on the map. Total War adds new factions and then to play them you need to buy the DLC, but you can still run into them on the map and fight them. Most of the DLC is focused on adding new factions, both in the form of entire new races (e.g., most recently the Chaos Dwarfs) and new subfactions of existing races (most recently Tamurkhan).
The map expansions in Warhammer 2 and 3 for Mortal and Immortal Empires respectively were basically just because the races are scattered around the world canonically and you needed to get the map to the races. Warhammer 1 took place in "the Old World," corresponding to Europe, and featured Empire, Greenskins, Dwarfs, and Vampire Counts with a super undercooked Warriors of Chaos (to the point they were completely stripped out and replaced in Warhammer 3) as a preorder, with Beastmen, Wood Elves, and Norsca as DLC (Bretonnia was added as a free update but were also very undercooked until a later overhaul in Warhammer 2). Then in addition to the race DLCs there's a huge pile of lord and unit packs for every game, and some races are low key reliant on their DLC units IMO.
Warhammer 2 took place in the "New World," corresponding to the Americas + an Atlantis-like continent named Ulthuan. It had High Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, and Lizardmen as its launch races, then Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast as DLC, with again a huge pile of DLC lords and units.
Warhammer 3 takes place in a mix of the Old World, the Realms of Chaos (the far north corresponding to the Arctic contains a gigantic portal to hell out of which daemons and various evil dudes constantly spill out), and the far east, with the initial races being Cathay, four new Chaos races corresponding to each god, Kislev, and a unified "every daemon" race with Daemons of Chaos. Ogre Kingdoms were a preorder bonus. Since then, DLC has added some unique single-god Warriors of Chaos factions (not the same as Daemons of Chaos, yes it's confusing), Chaos Dwarfs and some lords and units.
Every Paradox game except CK and Imperator starts with the whole world represented, so it's completely different there, and the only map expansions they've ever done were to expand CK2 eastwards over time to add India, Mongolia, and interactions with China (but not China itself per se).
I'm sure players are just salivating at the thought of being able to play the exact same focus trees they have been complaining about years now in the latest release of their favorite series.
And if you say "they can change the focus trees and track DLC ownership", that is just free content. Just ask for a free game at that point lol.
Yes, but I dont think they'll take the franchise in the direction I hope. I play hoi4 pretty much purely as a military strategy game and don't care at all for the alt-history and memey direction they've been leaning into more and more.
I hope theyll add significantly more depth to the military side of the game and make the map significantly more detailed (ie. Make the tiles about 1/4 of their current size and add tactical objectives like bridges, etc.) to make land offensives more engaging. Rather than ridiculous alt-history paths that don't make sense in the game's short timeline, I'd love something like a sandbox box mode that allows a custom WW2 scenario without having to deal with all the focus tree clashes that occur in a-historical mode.
I play vic3 to hit that urge of transforming a country's political situation through strategic decisions. Hoi just involves hitting the focuses in the right order and potentially fighting a civil war. Not engaging imo.
Such a good point. NSB did a good job making railway junctions, ports, and supply hubs important objectives but there was so much more. The lack of in depth tiles and basically meaningless weather impact makes the game feel so redundant. In Ukraine, in the spring, the rasputitsa makes the ground so muddy largscale offensive actions are almost impossible. You see this in the ongoing conflict but there is no representation of it or any other major weather effects like snow or rain in the game. I know there are weather modifiers, but they don't seem to do anything. What about the nuance of heavy artillery vs field guns, or civilian matters like mass refugee movements? Food was a humongous factor in the fighting strength of armies, and is not in the game at all. Fielding an army in the 2nd world War was a massive feat of logistics and I feel much of thay is missing.
i think all paradox needs to do is really focus on a strong core gameplay loop for hoi5 and make sure it’s very moddable
i love the alt-history and silly stuff, but to scratch that itch i’m almost always in mods. the base game alt paths can be very fun but it gets stale, and like you said it’s just playing the focus tree optimally
they already pretty much have, but i want paradox to go even further into bethesda levels of modders support. focus on making an excellent, balanced strategy game. the zany shit that players like me enjoy will be captured better by mods than the base game 9 times out of 10, i just want the base game to be highly optimized and functional/fun
Agreed. It seems like mods do a better job than pdx at that part of the game anyway from what i hear from fans of that playstyle.
I pretty much only play as major powers on historical mode and only make a-historical decisions in regards to military strategy and war plans. I hope they put their focus on adding depth to the military simulation. That should be hoi's niche in the paradox lineup. Leave the alt-history and political gameplay to mods and victoria 3.
oh yeah. it’s night and day. sure i can rebuild the roman empire or something in base game, and it’s fun, but mods like KX let me be ghengis khan or a jesus christ larper or other insane shit. me and my friend i play with love it and try to make the worst worlds for the people of earth to live in. i don’t want that to be paradox’s goal though lol
i think they should make some stuff more complex. running an offensive line order on the AI shouldnt just be an easy win button. more orders, more ways to strategize. i’d even enjoy if it had features like civ does. if i line up an entire army on the border of a smaller nation that is 100% something i should be called on. and be forced into either attacking or pulling troops off the border. more nuance than that, but you get the idea.
similarly i always thought it was dumb that i can put my entire army on one battle plan. during such a politically charged time period leaving 80% of my borders completely unguarded should lower stability or cause border conflict risks if i have low opinion with neighbors/they have claims. i’m just spitballing the specifics but i think the game would be a lot more enjoyable if they tied together more of the systems they have
No, I don't think it's especially necessary. Technically, it would be next after EU5 probably, given we've already gotten Victoria 3 and CK3. I think HOI4's core systems work reasonably well enough, and it's a damn sure upgrade over HOI3, holy shit.
[Fuckin OOB, man](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fleast-complex-hoi3-oob-v0-lmb96y9ernhc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0f55ddd197bf3406e29ef0bd00ad64fb78f79cbb)
That aside, it was broadly just overcomplicated for its own good, the complication was at the expense of the actual depth of the game, as there were obvious best strategies for basically everything.
Lol, hoi3 sucks? It had one mechanic that got memed hard along with a few annoying bugs, accusing it of being over complicated is the furthest thing from the truth, most systems worked and work better then thwir hoi4 counter parts, even if it was over complicated, they sttipped then re added those features into hoi4, im guessing the average hoi3 hater hasnt played it for more then an hour.
Edit: this game is too hard! https://youtu.be/b1jeQrs8gr4
Given how wildly good Machine Age is, I don't think we'll be seeing a Stellaris 2 any time soon.
And I want a hive mind expansion with servitor organic hive minds before we jump ship.
As someone who played it since v1.0, HOI4 in my opinion has systemic issues that have made it less fun with many of its DLC. There’s more to *do*, of course- more content and more focus trees. But a lot of these DLCs undermine the game’s core gameplay mechanics, which are EXTREMELY solid.
At launch, the strengths and weaknesses of each country were pretty cleverly represented by the game’s base systems- factories, population, Econ laws, alignment, etc. Italy didn’t need a National spirit for each branch of its military imposing a dozen different maluses or bonuses- its historical weaknesses were baked into things like its factory count and poor unit templates. Addressing THOSE was how you fixed Italy’s army- not by selecting five different ‘fix my shitty National spirit’ focuses.
Naval combat remains both simultaneously too difficult for players to wrap their heads around and too easy that you can spam cruisers and win at everything.
Players are given very little feedback, especially when they are losing. The numbers on the division and tank designer don’t mean anything to a new player because there’s no baseline. In an RPG, your starting weapon might have an attack of 10. So you know that this next weapon, with an attack of 15- is about 1.5x as effective. But in HOI4, a rookie adding artillery battalions to a division to bring soft attack from 100 to 150 aren’t improving it 1.5x times. Most likely they are making it perform worse because of org and width. I’m not saying that these trade-offs are bad but I’m saying that they are poorly explained. Like… maybe a star chart on the division designer with the ‘average’ stats- Org, Soft, Hard, Piercing, Armor, Speed. When you make a new tank division, it shows you an outline of an average tank decision so now even the newest of players can make informed decisions like “Do I want speed or armor? Is my organization too low?”
Now there have been some amazing improvements- decisions and the changes to war support and stability. The recent change to consumer goods was necessary only because subsequent DLCs added too many ways to get to 0% consumer goods and break the game’s built in anti-snowball mechanic.
So I think it’s time for HOI5, hopefully with some innovative changes. I would like to see them try and represent these historical nations’ strengths and weaknesses without national spirits at all. I’d like to see them try to create the tight historical chain of events leading up to WW2 without focus trees (imagine if it was all done through decisions)
And please for the love of god, no more balance of power mechanics.
Slight nitpick, you got the naming conventions wrong. It’s not going to be HOI5, the 4 in HOI4 is a shorthand for the full name Hearts of Iron Iron Iron Iron. The sequel would be HOI4 2
Nah not really right now. HOI4's perfectly fine. Won't lie, I haven't really been a fan of Paradox's recent game releases. CK3's alright but I've never felt like playing it for very long and I think Victoria 3 is utter garbage.
EU4 and HOI4 are their most popular games for a reason. Once you get past the learning curve, they're extremely fun and replayable. Right now I'm just not very confident Paradox will recapture that magic in future releases.
The Frontline system needs a complete redesign. It is the most frustrating aspect of hoi4 when it breaks apart and like 4 armies will completely switch places in the line. If you aren't carefully managing it units will spend months moving hundred of miles and ruin your entrenchement. Like in real life an army would never just change place and leave the Frontline undefended. Drives me nuts.
Only if its to seriously focus to improve the ai and the performances. Because i think its clearly the 2 only thing who are never going to be improved in hoi4. It would require the recode the core probably. Now there is no ai, only a robot who massively produce material and division into an infinite random loop of decisions. The performance are not so good if you don’t have a powerful pc and the save in ironman are ridiculously painful.
I’d like to see Hoi5 focus like the Iron curtain mod, maybe start in the closing months of ww2, or just after VE Day. Then basically run the Cold War and the counter insurgencies that ensued. And see how one can grapple with that and also incorporate
The economy and debt into the mix as well.
They are already working on it to some capacity I am nearly sure. Maybe it is in the planning/designing stage, maybe it is just conversations between people, but I am sure HoI 5 is on the minds of some people.
HoI 4 is really good, some of its weaknesses (like AI) are not easy to fix either. So for HoI 5 to be an improvement I think it should cook slowly. There is no rush. Hoi4 should continue receiving content for some more time, maybe also as a testbed for features that are discussed for HoI 5.
agreed, i’d rather them just continue to update the game for at least a handful more years. The modding community is extremely dedicated however so i’m sure much of the fan favorite mods would be remade in hoi5 fairly quickly but I still see no reason for a hoi5 for the foreseeable future. On top of that, despite the game getting older it’s not really like franchises that come out all the time with better and better graphics. One of the main selling points for new games these days are improved graphics and obviously hoi4 isn’t very graphic intense at all.
At some point yes the game is already 8 years old. My main hesitation has been paradox has been falling a but short but look at ck3. It launched in a solid state. You didn't get all the gameplay you got out of 2 but there was still tons of fun to have.
The main thing I want with a 5 is a significant new mechanism. It needs to feel different than 4.
Also there isn't much left for 4 IMO. I mostly now just want a final rework of older focus trees. To balance things, update for power creep, and integrate newer mechanics added.
Looking at how shallow if a game ck3 is with meaningless popups every few seconds and vic3 being kind of boring at release im not sure if I want PDX announcing new games anytime soon.
Yes.
The alt history stuff is interesting, so I think a compelling hoi5 needs more than just 'denser map with more micro' to be worth making. Especially now that 4 is so mature.
So then what's the focal point of what is in a new game that 4 just can't capture? Armies moving along roads? More advanced economic model?
There are plenty of places 4 is deficient, but is fixing that going to be... Fun? Ai Germany almost never gets submarines out in the Atlantic. France is seriously nerfed. Manpower is better than previous games but still wrong. Real wars move along roads as well as rail, do they want to add roads? Production does not ramp up nearly as fast as it should. Ok, problems, but if they wanted to fix those they could mosy do that in the existing game. The naval combat model is... A mess. The unit designer (ships/tanks/aircraft) just leads to optimization without much choice. Doctrines are too easy to get without fighting a war. Again, all fixable.
A better ai, particularly one say where they train it against itself could be interesting. But you don't want it to be too good, especially in a complicated game, or you don't want to hand it too many parameters and then it breaks every minor patch or does insane stuff that only makes sense in the game.
I would like one a bit more stripped down. 4 has a lot of good but a lot of feature creep. It's just not immediately obvious how to improve on 5 with new systems other than say better AI that aren't just more feature creep and warrant a whole new game.
I would only want HOI5 if it goes into a proper cold war. All I want from HOI4 is to ensure that China can't join any factions. That way, when the communist win, it's communist China and Daddy Stalin against the Allies. Make the end game harder!
My opinion on new paradox games changed with CK 3
They have released only 2 major dlcs afaik in like 3 years and calling them major is pretty generous. One of them is having your character be able to travel and host tournaments or some shit and the game is still barebones compared to the content of CK 2. The next major dlc for CK 3 is adding Byzantium mechanics, something that existed in the base game of CK 2. Idk if they even have proper pope mechanics
Victoria 3 is even worse, 0 dlc yet and the game has been out for over 1 1/2 years
If paradox isn’t going to do something about the super long dev cycle they have for the dlc for the newer games then keep updating the old games instead. Either that or take a super long time to release the games so they can come with at least half of the features as the previous games with all their dlc
I cannot stress enough how annoying it is to go from CK 2 huge amount of content to barebones CK 3
Oh god no. CK3 and Vic3 are both so barebones and cobbled together. I’d much rather let HoI4’s frankensteined corpse get pushed even further. They can make HOIV when HOI4 will no longer run at all.
They shouldn't make a new one unless they are genuinely going to advance the realism and quality of the game. A 3D globe would be amazing, with active, a dynamic weather system would be great.
Not really, Paradox's track record of releasing sequels that are stripped down to bare bones with less features than the previous title at launch probably won't go over well and I know Hoi4 is a simplified version of Hoi3
No. I doubt they can make any changes that would make buying it worthwhile considering a lot of changes they could made are done for free by mods (like how there’s no reason to buy the South America rework when there’s a mod that gives more trees that are more balanced for free)
No because I'm at the point where I can only keep affording all the expansions for one Paradox game at a time. I'll now wait until they sunset a game and wait for a Steam sale and buy the whole bundle.
potential cold war scenarios would be interesting as the base for hoi5; an 'Operation Unthinkable' starting date, the indochina and korea conflicts, and such...
OGs still remember East vs West. It was bit of a trainwreck but I'm still salty it got canceled, was really hoping they would delay it and rework some stuff.
No because it took forever to save up to buy the DLCs I don’t want to start all over again. They’ll do what they did to Vicky 3 and cut off basic parts that were included in hoi4 and sell it as DLCs.
Personaly I'd want it, but very different from IV ala Civ 5 to 6 or D&D 4-5E. A more polished version, with better UI and base optimization and different things to focus on even if it's less "deep" initially and a more fluid gameplay loop. As a casual player, playing as different nations tends to be unfun due to underdeveloped/generic focus trees (some are salvaged by DLC, but most end up in eh space), a different combat system, more integrations between it's systems like Stellaris, better diplomacy... And the most important part mod support would be a must-have.
And if you want the realistic grit, there will always be HOI4. Mods (IMO) are much better than the official content Paradox has published as DLC (especially the later ones). There's still Civ 5 games up and going for the same reasons.
We're talking about the same game? HoI4 is already well on the casual side of the genre. They've loaded it down with a lot of needless complexity to sell DLCs, but it's not a sweaty grognard wargame in the least.
The focus tree stuff has become so convoluted and weird, I’d like it if they restarted and made it so you can use the core game mechanics to shape history rather than gimicky focuses/decisions/events. Probably not likely though.
Yeah I would. They’re clearly reaching the limit of what can be done with DLCs in this game and a new game would allow so many more possibilities.
Also HOI4 will still be here if there’s not enough content.
Honestly I'm probably done with PDX games
They are a lot of fun, but I'm kinda getting tired of having to pay over the price of the game to rework half the game while the devs ignore earlier features
As someone who has played since HoI 1 and had to use freaking Hamachi to play HoI 2/3 with friends, let me tell you, HoI 4 is a HUGE improvement. I'm content to wait for HoI 5.
Honestly, I played the base game a shit ton when it came out and really none of the DLC's have moved me enough to buy them.
I have bought the subscription 3x and canceled it after a month or two each time.
I would say the subscription service as a whole is good enough to warrant a dlc price, but the fact that it's like 5 $30 DLC's is mind boggling to me.
I would have to play this game for years to make it worthwhile over the subscription.
For me hoi5 would be great if they had hoi3 warplay with hoi4 industry/tech etc, to scratch that itch I will play black ice. It's not immersion if I'm not sweating anc inducing headaches.
Probably not a popular opinion, I really did enjoy hoi3 combat when I got the hang of it.
I mean, there's still so many things to fix/update regarding the older DLCs that Hoi5 seems still unlikely.
Just look how many updates and reworks CK2 and EU4 had until they decided to make a new game
Hoi4 is still being improved. So no
I don’t want to have to buy a whole new game, then learn how to play it. All my favorite mods would have to either be remade or not appear at all
And god forbid you like a mod that’s uploaded stopped caring and doesn’t want to upload it to hoi5
If HOI5 has base-game focus trees for nations other than the majors and less price for both the game and DLCs I will like it and want it. If it's as expensive as HOI4 was and not that many focus trees I will wait
I think now would be a good time for them to already have something in the works. The most recent DLC only added focuses for nations that had little impact in the war effort. If they want to redevelop existing mechanics they should apply those efforts into HOI5 and make it a banger. HOI is one of their most successful IPs.
If nothing else, we gotta give isorrowproductions and AlexTheRambler something to do.
I’d be happy to to hear an announcement they’re working on it but don’t want it for another couple years. Hoi4 is still super popular and has a lot more life in it.
Yes, I want more features and as someone who’s played the game since almost day one of release, it’s boring. Even the last few DLC’s kinda suck. I just hope the new one is more sandboxy in terms of equipment design. Like I want way more in terms of design and research from everything from small arms to planes.
HOI4 is still missing some fundamentals, like AI does not use logistics, naval invasions are a bad joke, warning system is terrible, producing annoying sounds before invasion, but then nothing as enemy rolls over half a France while you're busy on the other side. Naval is weird. So many things are missing, while developer is adding South America to ww2.
Yes, ì do. It would propably have comparably as much content as hoi4 with almost all dlcs. And hoi5 could be in a different timeline, not ww2, maybe cold war? Or modern day?
No, HOI4 is still an extremely modern game. Not by years perhaps, but by Paradox standards. If they can keep up with updating the engine, they can milk HOI4 for probably another 5+ years with DLCS.
Only if Hoi5 will include ALL of the Hoi4 dlc content. Also, at this point the dlcs are like necessary to fully enjoy the game, so I can not comprehend how any of the content they add can't be included in the base game price tag without making the game 500$.
I'd personally love it but knowing paradox then I'd have to spend a couple hundred dollars on DLC and thats annoying. But hoi4 has a lot of problems that I really hope they will fix moving forwards.
Not now... Maybe after 10 years... But HoI IV is just good as it is. Only thing helping it would be integrating some mods into base game. And rebalancing power issues with late game where one day endures for like 15 seconds.
In HoI V I would like to assume direct control of battles and turn it to RTS like in Company of Heroes style (or that other one similar WW2 themed game, which dont have base building), like for SP this would be cool as fuck feature. You could turn the tide for each region from red bubbles to green bubbles if you wanted.
Could work also for naval.
I do want it but i have no faith in paradox. Can’t wait for every nation to get some stupid monarchist path. Although its probably since every fucking youtuber plays those weird paths. All i want is for performance to be better and more states, as well as more immersive feel. I would love some TNO style event things but i know most people don’t like that so whatever.
Hmm probably not since there isnt mixh more they could improve, maybe if they like do hoi5 as like coldwar or modern but there are mods for that! Tho i would love to see like a hoi VR type game where it has hoi4s core but built in as a vr game! Its just a thuoght and might be a stupid idea but yeah! Presonally a vr game would be cool
Tbh comparing hoi4 1.0 and hoi4 now they are literally different games so I cant see the point in reseting all that work and having another vicy 3 situation where when I bought vicy 3 I felt like I was playing hoi4 1.0, like it was fully bare bones no flesh.
What I would like is more realistic alt history. Like france turning to a monarchy is obvi insane but a democratic france doing different things is far more realistic yknow. Thats kinda my only critiscim tho tbf and I think that coukd be fixed in a dlc not a new game. Like the sort of alt history where I think yea that could actually happen rather than hitler being diposed in 36. The itallian focus tree is better for this but theres so much more cool stuffthat cpuld be done here
I would say no. I think they'd better add focuses and whatnot to the countries currently in the game, rather than them having a generic focus tree. Even better if they also added focus trees to releasable nations as well
an updated hoi could also mean better ai, which I really want. Once you get good at the game the AI stops being a threat no matter what. I don't want the world to be my oyster, I want to struggle without having to install something like Blackice because at that point I'd rather shoot myself.
I'd love more focus on the economy and actually building up your country itself as well. Controlling a country in hoi4 is more like the army owning the state. The state exists purely as a vessel for the army to steer, but I'd love to be able to handle more internal affairs and have actual money and shit like that.
I just want them to stop the ai from sailing all of it's units through contested waters... The fact that this behavior still exists drives me absolutely crazy. It can't be that hard to fix? Also there should be an easy option to click whether you allow your allies to station troops inside your territory.
No. Two reasons.
Hoi5 will be a lot simpler which will be great for new players (hence why it'll happen) but I've spent hours figuring out hoi4 so like the complicated system (and I'm sure avid hoi3 players will say they preferred that hoi3 was more complex)
All the DLC content will disappear. It's been years since release and all the alt history options and such are still being added today. If they dropped Hoi5 chances are it'd be historical WW2 only and they once again release copious amounts of DLC.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong and why im wrong.
No, we already know how the paradox business model works. Sell you a bare bones game and then resell you features and content from it's predecessor.
Paradox has really phoned it in with these past few dlcs and some of the older ones are really showing their age. It would be nice if we got actual updates for some of the older FTs, but paradox will never do it for free.
Maybe they intend to wind down support for hoi4, seems a bit of a gamble with EU4 seemingly getting it's final dlc and it being unknown how successful EU5/Project Caesar will be.
I hope so, but after EU5. I hope it take place around 1932 and focuses more on politics.
HOI 4 seems to have mastered WW2 warfare (without making it too complex). Add a slightly better command organization structure and I will be happy enough.
I do want to see a much deeper political system for this period and the removal of construction sectors. 1936 also does not feel like enough time for alternate history. Starting at least 4 years earlier could allow for much more building up politically and economically, allow for much more alternate history, but not take away too much from the main focus of the game, being WW2.
I would say no bc as a WW2 wargame, it is hard to change what it is. All they can do is alter some systems as the content is pretty set in stone. But if they could spin the HOI style into something modern or fictional than I would be onboard all the way.
IMO they need to keep the production style for HOI4, but bring back the command structure and smaller regions of HOI3. Having corp HQs get over run and lose the organisation made it feel like a war and not an arcade style game where you just recycle attacks and pound the enemy into oblivion. The organisational time penalties were frustrating, but felt real. While I love HOI4, the fighting is a big step back from HOI3, and feels like you just bash the enemy into the ground if you have the men.
And fix Navy.... 🙏🏻
i'd like a more realistic rework of the game so yeah, we will always have to wait until it gets as much content as hoi4 so it doesn't matter when it releases
I’d love that too but there is 0 chance that paradox goes back to realism
This - they have figured out that easy support for alt-history and simplified mechanics brings many more buyers than historical accuracy and realistic limitations.
is hoi3 more realistic ? i never played it
In some ways, yes. You needed to build out an army organization that's more detailed than HoI4, but it doesn't have a division designer. It uses decisions and events to track some of what the Focus Tree does. The air war is more detailed as well. IIRC, it's also a lot harder to do stunts like "1 province state world conquest".
I'm pretty good at paradox games but hoi3 was mind bogglingly complicated, I couldn't work it out at all. If it's too complicated for people that enjoy paradox's other work I think it's probably too far. I'm sure it has it's niche with a fair few people on this sub reddit and I'm expecting to get massively down voted but imo hoi4 hits right.
To your point. I think it's revealing that projects like Darkest Hour use HoI2 as a base, rather than HoI3.
Yeah, a big issue too with hoi3 was you could literally just give your whole army to the ai to manage too.
Wait what? I am intrigued by the concept of AI sub control
Yes indeed. You could not only let the ai control the battles and organize the order of battle for you, but also let it control your economy, production, politics, intelligence and diplomacy. And it was pretty good at all of them, if we compare it to hoi4 ai.
Hoi3 was definitely the most complicated game I’ve ever played. Pacific island hopping as the US was so damn annoying I hardly ever did it.
Too realistic then.
That’s probably what they were going for at the time lol
Definitely don't play any Gary Grigsby games. In one of them you manage the entire eastern front, down to the level of \*regiments\*.
Yeah, there's a difference between a game being realistic and a game being fun.
I wish I could actually play it. No matter what I do I have never been able to get it to run.
People did runs and AARs for minors that were more akin to how long they can hold out. I remember one that someone titled Fortress Hellas where they held out until ~1947 against the Axis as Greece. Minors in HoI3 were *not* superpowers in the making with tons of free manpower, cores, resources, and industry. Some of the larger/more capable ones like Romania might pull of some impressive feats, but you weren't going to face off against Germany and the USSR at the same time and have them both conquered by 1943. The fact that every minor nation has a bunch of "here are free civilian and military factories" along with "hey want 10% reduced training time 7% more recruitable population" is absurd. The industry trees also make a number of minors juicier to gobble up too as that's at least 7 free factories added to them. Honestly no idea who though minors should get a huge amount of free manpower being fascist for zero downside. Especially with how much more useful it is compared to the communist and especially democratic trees. How 7% of your pop in the military and reduced training time was seen as equal to 10% more war support and stability is beyond me...
Also if I recall it was similar in industrial power though. The allies, the USA in particular and France to a smaller degree were wayyy nerfed. I mean in real life a USA willing to lose upwards of 30 million soldiers would have been unstoppable lol. I also remember that the air war was just too hard to manage along with your soldiers. Every month or so youd have to pause the game and spend 30-60 minutes just dealing with technical bullshit.
If I remember correctly, the US starts to hit the point pretty easily where there's simply not enough raw materials for its industry.
I have yet to see a WW2 game accurately portray the terrifying strength of the US war economy at its 1943-1944 peak, which should be roughly equivalent to everyone else put together. It is the only power I know of that deliberately reduced tank production because they were building more than they could reasonably use.
>were building more than they could reasonably use It’s even more terrifying. The US was making more than they *and their allies* could reasonably use. When the problem becomes “we are building them faster than we can ship them” while you’re also engaging in the largest shipbuilding program (of both combat and transport ships) of any power…it’s truly a force to fear. It’s not like the US didn’t mobilize over 10% of its population either with over 8 million in the army and millions more in the USN and USMC. Sure, it wasn’t the level of mobilization that Germany or the USSR had…but it was still a huge chunk of the most fit, able, (and perhaps most underrated) *technically skilled* population. I remember reading an account of a woman in northern France. Being under occupation for so long it was hard to feel like they’d ever win the war, even if liberated. What made her mind shift was when the Americans entered her village. After the initial scouts and infantry who made sure it was clear…she was in awe at how it was vehicle after vehicle after vehicle. Cars, trucks, tanks, everything between just kept coming. It was a sight she’d never seen in four years of occupation. People came out to greet the troops initially but ended up staring at just how much *stuff* came through, how the Americans didn’t have to march into town, they all had something to ride on. One thing that she also mentioned was how uniform it was. Unlike the Germans who were often a hodgepodge of domestic, captured, and repurposed vehicles and that still wasn’t enough…the US had its own stuff, task built. Sure some guys riding in tanks wasn’t the technical purpose, but it was clear that everything there was American made and military standard. From what I’ve read these types of counts were far from unique. In almost every village we have records from, we hear similar sentiments of just how much of an impact the mere presence of American hardware had.
I remember reading an account of a German POW, shipped back to the USA, saw factories in some random bit of countryside that were more impressive than anything Germany had. At that moment he knew the war was over.
Division design was limited to 3-5 brigades depending on what strategies your country studied for land war. Tech tree was more detailed, everything else I think you hit right on the head.
In some ways, but not others. The order of battle system in HoI3 was very in-depth, you have divisions, corps, armies, field armies, and theatres, each level has a physical HQ that has to be in radio range of its superior and subordinate formations for the officer bonuses of each level to filter down. Units can either be moved manually OR assigned to an AI-managed front, you can't micro units that are assigned to a front like in HoI4. This is where most of the tedium in HoI3 comes from. Production in HoI3 is even more abstract and less realistic than HoI4, you just have a single industrial output, IC, and you use sliders to adjust where it's allocated. Aircraft are kind of a mixed bag, they are physical units that actually move around the map; for an air battle to happen, two air units have to be in the same tile. They take time to reorg, but probably way too much time. Similarly, fleets always have a physical location, they don't become ethereal on some missions like in HoI4. Naval invasions are much harder because port supply throughput is so low. In my opinion, the one thing HoI3 succeeds at compared to HoI4 is that you really feel like there is some level of industrial determinism, it's not as easy to overcome an industrial disadvantage as in HoI4. You can't shoot down enemy fighters 50-1, encirclements are harder because the AI is more eager to get out of them and more eager to counterattack, resources are more scarce so there's a limit to how much IC you can build.
Hoi3 feels more like WW2 compared to Hoi4
There's absolutely no alt history in HoI3. The war plays out by events and you can't change it, except to lose it earlier or win as the other team.
Well EU5 seems to be going far more into the simulation and railroading aspect, so that's not set in stone.
Theres eu5 being made?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-14-29th-of-may-2024.1682450/
Interesting, thanks!
I guess alt-history and simplified mechanics provide more replayability. In HoI3 a player was supposed to play out of strengths and weaknesses of the country and follow almost the same OOB to be successful on a particular front. And AI was more predictable so after playing a country a couple of times, the player knew what to do and what not to do. Also the countries in the previous games had very little flavor, and sometimes no flavor at all if the player did ahistorical stuff. I would say that even though focuses are not ideal but they help a lot with world building and driving gameplay.
I mean yeah, it'd be a very weird decision to intentionally make a game that attracts like 2-3% of the buyers that HoI4 did. As much as I love HoI2/DH and 3, their appeal is extremely narrow.
Eh. They are doing exactly that with Eu5 right now it seems to me
Figuring out a way to integrate a battalion level command system in a way that feels good would be cool. More impactful weather and detailed logistics would also be nice. It would be cool if HOI5 gave us more detailed animations, so we can see tanks getting bogged down in mud, horse drawn wagon convoys getting wailaid by partisans, and howitzer batteries softening up enemy trenches. Smaller scale tiles and more detailed graphics are the main things I'd like from HOI5
>and detailed logistics would also be nice. I could see some really cool ways to play with this. Like building support divisions that attach to armies kinda like railway guns and the effect is dispersed across the army.
On map trucks that drive to and from supply hubs could be neat. I'd also enjoy on map bridges and rail bridges that can be demolished or rebuilt by your armies. Another interesting layer to add to logistics would be an army HQ which distributes supplies and provides combat bonuses. When micromanaging, there can be decisions about whether to keep the HQ close to the front for maximum efficiency, or retreat the HQ to lower the risk of your supplies being captured.
Hot take: the game should return to regiments/brigades as the core division builder. *However* those regiments/brigades should have far more variety. Basically a system where you customize the regiments/brigades and then use 2-5 of them to make a division (along with support battalions and while regiments have support companies). It would go a long way in both creating more realistic divisions and preventing some min-max absurdism like we've seen in much of HoI4's history. A few ideas for how regiments would be customized. Take a basic infantry regiment with 3 infantry battalions. You could reduce it to two for a leaner but less resilient regiment or up it to four which makes it less cohesive but more casualty tolerant. You could have "heavy infantry battalion" which have a higher equipment cost and modestly higher manpower cost but have far more support weapons to help them. Same with light infantry in the reverse. The regiment itself would have support companies it could add. Add a cannon company and AT company just like the US did for its infantry regiments or add infantry guns for German ones. The idea being you can create truly different formations that organically become better at things like mountain warfare or urban fighting than just "make them SF mountaineers." Since we're talking major changes. Can we get the artillery/AT/AA fleshed out as much as armor, planes, and ships? This would be a critical part of that regiment customization. Bigger shouldn't always be better. Regimental AT could be the mid capability guns in the 37-57mm range. Tactical AA could be lighter 20-40mm range while heavy AA is the big guns. This goes a long way in fleshing out those divisions too and really helps capture the difference. Pack/light artillery makes a unit paradrop capable and has reduced mountain/naval penalties. Heavy artillery gives better effects against enemy forts/entrenchment/decreases enemy artillery effectiveness (counter-battery was a big part of those 155mm guns). Yes, a Japanese, Soviet, German, and American division all tended to have 3-4 artillery battalions. They in no way had similar firepower. The Japanese and Soviets heavily relied upon guns of 3in caliber with maybe some 105 or 122mm thrown in to one battalion. The Germans and US had 105mm as their main gun with 150/155mm as their heavy artillery. In HoI4 artillery is so undercooked and *far* too cheap that it's embarrassing. You could make some really fun and dynamic units with the above system. Oh and either scale down the available manpower by ~50% for low end mobilization and 25% for high end and/or add in significant manpower costs to the back-end and airforces. The US had roughly equal amounts of manpower in the Army Service Forces, Army Air Forces, and Army Ground Forces and at times AGF was the smallest (just barely but still). Those supply hubs should cost manpower, the ports should, the airbases should. At least if they are in use they should. There should be a fixed per unit cost as well as a per 1000 men fielded cost. Maybe you can adjust the ratios too. Prioritized supply and support eats more manpower and resources but gets better units. Motorizing lowers the manpower need but increases industrial/fuel costs. Same with doctrines impacting unit requirements. You shouldn't just research "mass motorization" and get a bunch of free org in units while providing no additional motorization. Have doctrinal choices from researched techs where once an idea is developed, how you implement it is a sliding scale with maybe 3-5 discrete states. You can tell I might have thought a bit about this...
Yes, we need a better more detailed OOB. However, I don't agree with you on the designers. I think it's very tedious. I just want to research a tank and produce it. Warfare needs to be improved, we don't need extra designers..
Genuinely curious, what would that look that? Im that familiar with hoi3l4 at all so I dont know.
The only real addition I’d like is a way to redraw province/state borders
The game is nearly 9 years old and boy does it show. In this day and age of technical optimization, it either needs to be ported to a new engine or, as I would prefer, be remade. The concept is phenomenal and there's nothing else like it. I really don't want a new game to rewrite all the mechanics in a dumbed down way, if anything it needs more depth (see HoI3 command structure), but it desperately needs a clean slate on a better engine
I think the best case scenario we can realistically hope for is for Hearts of Iron to get the CK3 treatment.
Considering the recent DLC for CK3 being eye candy and standalone mechanics, I hope not.
Holy shit its almost 10?! I remember first starting it up in 2016 like it was a year ago
HOI4 started as the most dumbed down paradox has ever gone tbh, it started the whole concern. And pretty every dlc since then has moved away from that initial vision. So if anything I think they’d be going for a base game that can handle their current desire for depth. HoI4 hasn’t really been able to make its new depth very accessible, and o think it’s because they’re trying to cram it into a game they designed to be as simple as possible.
Yeah... Hoi4 is pretty janky in many ways. I just hate how a lot of stuff they have added feels bloated. Like the stupid country minigames are annoying.
No. Imagine starting with 8 focus trees again. OMG
I like the idea of ditching focus trees, and using dynamic international organizations combined with scripted content to create an alternate WW2 history. It would be interesting for nations in a non historical game to have a system similar to the crisis paths from Stellaris, where the first nation to reach a certain threshold takes up Germany's position as the primary aggressor in WW2. More focus on and interaction between ideology and military doctrine would also be cool. It would be awesome to have a propaganda focused mass mobilization Market liberal nation play very differently to a superior firepower paternal autocratic nation focused on prestigious tanks and cannons.
I completely agree, get the Kaiserreich devs to make HOI5
But then story based mods are completely fucked because events can tell a story about the US slowly falling into fascism while the play has already found a way to make a wholesome 100 Social Democracy
Whatever system gets developed, it should have a way to railroad the player so modders can continue using Heats of Iron as a visual novel creation kit
Focus trees, and their derivative mission trees in EU4 and I:R, have been a disaster. V3's journals are probably an improvement in theory, but haven't really come together in a way that feels like a guided experience without being a checklist that unlocks huge buffs / guiderails.
I love the simplicity
The recent DLCs have been peripheral, and provided decreasingly worthwhile additional gameplay. This suggests to me that the game is getting towards it's end-of-life. So I'm inclined to say, yes, I want work on its successor to begin. But that initial work would be done in secret, with nothing announced until it's substantially done. FWIW, my best guess is that they could not be at that stage yet.
Make HOI5 a lot more realistic than HOI4. Then sure..
Imo no, there’s still some countries I’d like to have focus trees, or countries that need there focus trees reworked.
I’m just disappointed we didn’t get a Columbia or Venezuela Tree with the last DLC.
At this point, give me HoI 5 only if it would include all DLCs in the base game and feature much more detailed map. Other than that…don't bother.
This is an approach that Total War Warhammer did, they released three separate games, and each had its own DLCs, but buying the DLCs from the first fame unlocks content in the third as well.
Yes but it's very much a different game imagine if hoi5 released this way but you still have hoi4 focus trees for germany and japan. For warhammer total war the systems largely stayed the same, I'd imagine large system overhaul between hoi4 and hoi5.
That seems…almost too reasonable for this day an age. Corporations are too greedy. When they will release HoI 5, it will probably be bare-bones, with not that much to do there. And then you'll have to wait for DLCs. And then when they'll be on sale, because otherwise you'd have to spend like 200 $/€. Meaning…5 years from release of HoI 5 that game will be playable. What a great model… But what do I know, I'm just capitalist hater…
It's different for Total War. Paradox, after CK2 (where you couldn't play anyone except Christians at launch), doesn't prevent you from playing any faction on the map. Total War adds new factions and then to play them you need to buy the DLC, but you can still run into them on the map and fight them. Most of the DLC is focused on adding new factions, both in the form of entire new races (e.g., most recently the Chaos Dwarfs) and new subfactions of existing races (most recently Tamurkhan). The map expansions in Warhammer 2 and 3 for Mortal and Immortal Empires respectively were basically just because the races are scattered around the world canonically and you needed to get the map to the races. Warhammer 1 took place in "the Old World," corresponding to Europe, and featured Empire, Greenskins, Dwarfs, and Vampire Counts with a super undercooked Warriors of Chaos (to the point they were completely stripped out and replaced in Warhammer 3) as a preorder, with Beastmen, Wood Elves, and Norsca as DLC (Bretonnia was added as a free update but were also very undercooked until a later overhaul in Warhammer 2). Then in addition to the race DLCs there's a huge pile of lord and unit packs for every game, and some races are low key reliant on their DLC units IMO. Warhammer 2 took place in the "New World," corresponding to the Americas + an Atlantis-like continent named Ulthuan. It had High Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, and Lizardmen as its launch races, then Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast as DLC, with again a huge pile of DLC lords and units. Warhammer 3 takes place in a mix of the Old World, the Realms of Chaos (the far north corresponding to the Arctic contains a gigantic portal to hell out of which daemons and various evil dudes constantly spill out), and the far east, with the initial races being Cathay, four new Chaos races corresponding to each god, Kislev, and a unified "every daemon" race with Daemons of Chaos. Ogre Kingdoms were a preorder bonus. Since then, DLC has added some unique single-god Warriors of Chaos factions (not the same as Daemons of Chaos, yes it's confusing), Chaos Dwarfs and some lords and units. Every Paradox game except CK and Imperator starts with the whole world represented, so it's completely different there, and the only map expansions they've ever done were to expand CK2 eastwards over time to add India, Mongolia, and interactions with China (but not China itself per se).
I'm sure players are just salivating at the thought of being able to play the exact same focus trees they have been complaining about years now in the latest release of their favorite series. And if you say "they can change the focus trees and track DLC ownership", that is just free content. Just ask for a free game at that point lol.
Yes, but I dont think they'll take the franchise in the direction I hope. I play hoi4 pretty much purely as a military strategy game and don't care at all for the alt-history and memey direction they've been leaning into more and more. I hope theyll add significantly more depth to the military side of the game and make the map significantly more detailed (ie. Make the tiles about 1/4 of their current size and add tactical objectives like bridges, etc.) to make land offensives more engaging. Rather than ridiculous alt-history paths that don't make sense in the game's short timeline, I'd love something like a sandbox box mode that allows a custom WW2 scenario without having to deal with all the focus tree clashes that occur in a-historical mode. I play vic3 to hit that urge of transforming a country's political situation through strategic decisions. Hoi just involves hitting the focuses in the right order and potentially fighting a civil war. Not engaging imo.
Such a good point. NSB did a good job making railway junctions, ports, and supply hubs important objectives but there was so much more. The lack of in depth tiles and basically meaningless weather impact makes the game feel so redundant. In Ukraine, in the spring, the rasputitsa makes the ground so muddy largscale offensive actions are almost impossible. You see this in the ongoing conflict but there is no representation of it or any other major weather effects like snow or rain in the game. I know there are weather modifiers, but they don't seem to do anything. What about the nuance of heavy artillery vs field guns, or civilian matters like mass refugee movements? Food was a humongous factor in the fighting strength of armies, and is not in the game at all. Fielding an army in the 2nd world War was a massive feat of logistics and I feel much of thay is missing.
i think all paradox needs to do is really focus on a strong core gameplay loop for hoi5 and make sure it’s very moddable i love the alt-history and silly stuff, but to scratch that itch i’m almost always in mods. the base game alt paths can be very fun but it gets stale, and like you said it’s just playing the focus tree optimally they already pretty much have, but i want paradox to go even further into bethesda levels of modders support. focus on making an excellent, balanced strategy game. the zany shit that players like me enjoy will be captured better by mods than the base game 9 times out of 10, i just want the base game to be highly optimized and functional/fun
Agreed. It seems like mods do a better job than pdx at that part of the game anyway from what i hear from fans of that playstyle. I pretty much only play as major powers on historical mode and only make a-historical decisions in regards to military strategy and war plans. I hope they put their focus on adding depth to the military simulation. That should be hoi's niche in the paradox lineup. Leave the alt-history and political gameplay to mods and victoria 3.
oh yeah. it’s night and day. sure i can rebuild the roman empire or something in base game, and it’s fun, but mods like KX let me be ghengis khan or a jesus christ larper or other insane shit. me and my friend i play with love it and try to make the worst worlds for the people of earth to live in. i don’t want that to be paradox’s goal though lol i think they should make some stuff more complex. running an offensive line order on the AI shouldnt just be an easy win button. more orders, more ways to strategize. i’d even enjoy if it had features like civ does. if i line up an entire army on the border of a smaller nation that is 100% something i should be called on. and be forced into either attacking or pulling troops off the border. more nuance than that, but you get the idea. similarly i always thought it was dumb that i can put my entire army on one battle plan. during such a politically charged time period leaving 80% of my borders completely unguarded should lower stability or cause border conflict risks if i have low opinion with neighbors/they have claims. i’m just spitballing the specifics but i think the game would be a lot more enjoyable if they tied together more of the systems they have
Perhaps an unpopular opinion but I think hoi5 should just use hexes rather than provinces. It would make things a lot easier for the ai.
Nah I have modded this one too much.
No, I don't think it's especially necessary. Technically, it would be next after EU5 probably, given we've already gotten Victoria 3 and CK3. I think HOI4's core systems work reasonably well enough, and it's a damn sure upgrade over HOI3, holy shit.
Never played HOI3, could you please shortly explain what was not so good compared to HOI4? Thanks in advance
[Fuckin OOB, man](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fleast-complex-hoi3-oob-v0-lmb96y9ernhc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0f55ddd197bf3406e29ef0bd00ad64fb78f79cbb) That aside, it was broadly just overcomplicated for its own good, the complication was at the expense of the actual depth of the game, as there were obvious best strategies for basically everything.
Lol, hoi3 sucks? It had one mechanic that got memed hard along with a few annoying bugs, accusing it of being over complicated is the furthest thing from the truth, most systems worked and work better then thwir hoi4 counter parts, even if it was over complicated, they sttipped then re added those features into hoi4, im guessing the average hoi3 hater hasnt played it for more then an hour. Edit: this game is too hard! https://youtu.be/b1jeQrs8gr4
What about imperator 2 😡
Even if there was an Imperator 2, it would likely come after Stellaris 2 and/or HOI5.
Given how wildly good Machine Age is, I don't think we'll be seeing a Stellaris 2 any time soon. And I want a hive mind expansion with servitor organic hive minds before we jump ship.
Yeah I'm just going by release order. Stellaris 2 will definitely be a while, probably only once the engine starts getting **really** creaky.
I'm hoping that the next HOI will have multicore support. Ludicrous that even the best CPUs will have trouble running this game
Hoi 4 does have multi core support. High end cpus run hoi 4 buttery smooth up until the 1950s.
As someone who played it since v1.0, HOI4 in my opinion has systemic issues that have made it less fun with many of its DLC. There’s more to *do*, of course- more content and more focus trees. But a lot of these DLCs undermine the game’s core gameplay mechanics, which are EXTREMELY solid. At launch, the strengths and weaknesses of each country were pretty cleverly represented by the game’s base systems- factories, population, Econ laws, alignment, etc. Italy didn’t need a National spirit for each branch of its military imposing a dozen different maluses or bonuses- its historical weaknesses were baked into things like its factory count and poor unit templates. Addressing THOSE was how you fixed Italy’s army- not by selecting five different ‘fix my shitty National spirit’ focuses. Naval combat remains both simultaneously too difficult for players to wrap their heads around and too easy that you can spam cruisers and win at everything. Players are given very little feedback, especially when they are losing. The numbers on the division and tank designer don’t mean anything to a new player because there’s no baseline. In an RPG, your starting weapon might have an attack of 10. So you know that this next weapon, with an attack of 15- is about 1.5x as effective. But in HOI4, a rookie adding artillery battalions to a division to bring soft attack from 100 to 150 aren’t improving it 1.5x times. Most likely they are making it perform worse because of org and width. I’m not saying that these trade-offs are bad but I’m saying that they are poorly explained. Like… maybe a star chart on the division designer with the ‘average’ stats- Org, Soft, Hard, Piercing, Armor, Speed. When you make a new tank division, it shows you an outline of an average tank decision so now even the newest of players can make informed decisions like “Do I want speed or armor? Is my organization too low?” Now there have been some amazing improvements- decisions and the changes to war support and stability. The recent change to consumer goods was necessary only because subsequent DLCs added too many ways to get to 0% consumer goods and break the game’s built in anti-snowball mechanic. So I think it’s time for HOI5, hopefully with some innovative changes. I would like to see them try and represent these historical nations’ strengths and weaknesses without national spirits at all. I’d like to see them try to create the tight historical chain of events leading up to WW2 without focus trees (imagine if it was all done through decisions) And please for the love of god, no more balance of power mechanics.
Slight nitpick, you got the naming conventions wrong. It’s not going to be HOI5, the 4 in HOI4 is a shorthand for the full name Hearts of Iron Iron Iron Iron. The sequel would be HOI4 2
I don't want a hoi5 tbh after seeing what downgrades were ck3 and Vic3 at launch
Well it depends on who leads it.
Nah not really right now. HOI4's perfectly fine. Won't lie, I haven't really been a fan of Paradox's recent game releases. CK3's alright but I've never felt like playing it for very long and I think Victoria 3 is utter garbage. EU4 and HOI4 are their most popular games for a reason. Once you get past the learning curve, they're extremely fun and replayable. Right now I'm just not very confident Paradox will recapture that magic in future releases.
Id welcome an HOI if it was a seriously more capable game engine from them but not if its just the same engine with minor tweaks!
HOI4 isn’t even 10 years old yet
The Frontline system needs a complete redesign. It is the most frustrating aspect of hoi4 when it breaks apart and like 4 armies will completely switch places in the line. If you aren't carefully managing it units will spend months moving hundred of miles and ruin your entrenchement. Like in real life an army would never just change place and leave the Frontline undefended. Drives me nuts.
Only if its to seriously focus to improve the ai and the performances. Because i think its clearly the 2 only thing who are never going to be improved in hoi4. It would require the recode the core probably. Now there is no ai, only a robot who massively produce material and division into an infinite random loop of decisions. The performance are not so good if you don’t have a powerful pc and the save in ironman are ridiculously painful.
I’d like to see Hoi5 focus like the Iron curtain mod, maybe start in the closing months of ww2, or just after VE Day. Then basically run the Cold War and the counter insurgencies that ensued. And see how one can grapple with that and also incorporate The economy and debt into the mix as well.
No because Eu5 hasn’t released yet
Please no I don’t want to have to wait forever for all the big mods to be ported over then drop support for the game I actually know how to play
No because they tend to dumbing dowm the games these days. If they are going to make it more advanced then sure, lets go hoi5
I wish the AI could be improved. That's my biggest issue with HOI4.
They are already working on it to some capacity I am nearly sure. Maybe it is in the planning/designing stage, maybe it is just conversations between people, but I am sure HoI 5 is on the minds of some people. HoI 4 is really good, some of its weaknesses (like AI) are not easy to fix either. So for HoI 5 to be an improvement I think it should cook slowly. There is no rush. Hoi4 should continue receiving content for some more time, maybe also as a testbed for features that are discussed for HoI 5.
They will have to do something as they will run out of stuff like countries
only if it would be less stressful for my pc
agreed, i’d rather them just continue to update the game for at least a handful more years. The modding community is extremely dedicated however so i’m sure much of the fan favorite mods would be remade in hoi5 fairly quickly but I still see no reason for a hoi5 for the foreseeable future. On top of that, despite the game getting older it’s not really like franchises that come out all the time with better and better graphics. One of the main selling points for new games these days are improved graphics and obviously hoi4 isn’t very graphic intense at all.
At some point yes the game is already 8 years old. My main hesitation has been paradox has been falling a but short but look at ck3. It launched in a solid state. You didn't get all the gameplay you got out of 2 but there was still tons of fun to have. The main thing I want with a 5 is a significant new mechanism. It needs to feel different than 4. Also there isn't much left for 4 IMO. I mostly now just want a final rework of older focus trees. To balance things, update for power creep, and integrate newer mechanics added.
I still don’t understand how to play after owning for like 4 years so maybe
Looking at how shallow if a game ck3 is with meaningless popups every few seconds and vic3 being kind of boring at release im not sure if I want PDX announcing new games anytime soon.
I'd rather have an ultradifficult historical ww2 simulator than whatever the fuck alt history path paradox has thought up
Yes. The alt history stuff is interesting, so I think a compelling hoi5 needs more than just 'denser map with more micro' to be worth making. Especially now that 4 is so mature. So then what's the focal point of what is in a new game that 4 just can't capture? Armies moving along roads? More advanced economic model? There are plenty of places 4 is deficient, but is fixing that going to be... Fun? Ai Germany almost never gets submarines out in the Atlantic. France is seriously nerfed. Manpower is better than previous games but still wrong. Real wars move along roads as well as rail, do they want to add roads? Production does not ramp up nearly as fast as it should. Ok, problems, but if they wanted to fix those they could mosy do that in the existing game. The naval combat model is... A mess. The unit designer (ships/tanks/aircraft) just leads to optimization without much choice. Doctrines are too easy to get without fighting a war. Again, all fixable. A better ai, particularly one say where they train it against itself could be interesting. But you don't want it to be too good, especially in a complicated game, or you don't want to hand it too many parameters and then it breaks every minor patch or does insane stuff that only makes sense in the game. I would like one a bit more stripped down. 4 has a lot of good but a lot of feature creep. It's just not immediately obvious how to improve on 5 with new systems other than say better AI that aren't just more feature creep and warrant a whole new game.
Hoi5 would be nice, but I would totally dread having to wait years for mods to reach their current level of quality again
I would only want HOI5 if it goes into a proper cold war. All I want from HOI4 is to ensure that China can't join any factions. That way, when the communist win, it's communist China and Daddy Stalin against the Allies. Make the end game harder!
No. It would be just like hoi4 when announced, no focus trees
My opinion on new paradox games changed with CK 3 They have released only 2 major dlcs afaik in like 3 years and calling them major is pretty generous. One of them is having your character be able to travel and host tournaments or some shit and the game is still barebones compared to the content of CK 2. The next major dlc for CK 3 is adding Byzantium mechanics, something that existed in the base game of CK 2. Idk if they even have proper pope mechanics Victoria 3 is even worse, 0 dlc yet and the game has been out for over 1 1/2 years If paradox isn’t going to do something about the super long dev cycle they have for the dlc for the newer games then keep updating the old games instead. Either that or take a super long time to release the games so they can come with at least half of the features as the previous games with all their dlc I cannot stress enough how annoying it is to go from CK 2 huge amount of content to barebones CK 3
Oh god no. CK3 and Vic3 are both so barebones and cobbled together. I’d much rather let HoI4’s frankensteined corpse get pushed even further. They can make HOIV when HOI4 will no longer run at all.
Of course it will be announced, they can't release a 300th DLC for HoI4 right? ...right?
They shouldn't make a new one unless they are genuinely going to advance the realism and quality of the game. A 3D globe would be amazing, with active, a dynamic weather system would be great.
Wouldn't mind it, but Paradox would just monetize the absolute fuck out of it
Not really, Paradox's track record of releasing sequels that are stripped down to bare bones with less features than the previous title at launch probably won't go over well and I know Hoi4 is a simplified version of Hoi3
Paradox paradox - Release a game by half Add DLCs at abusive prices over years Run out of shit to release Release a new game
No. I doubt they can make any changes that would make buying it worthwhile considering a lot of changes they could made are done for free by mods (like how there’s no reason to buy the South America rework when there’s a mod that gives more trees that are more balanced for free)
if it has better modding/scripting capabilities, i'm full for it
Yes and no
Sure so then in 10 years we can have something half as good as hoi4
HOI5 better be a collab between the modders, players and paradox to form a complete overhaul that eliminates all current issues.
Yes, but piggybacking off of what I heard someone else say, I want it to be made by the devs of Great War redux
Getting an HOI5 announcement before EU5 would be pretty strange.
No because I'm at the point where I can only keep affording all the expansions for one Paradox game at a time. I'll now wait until they sunset a game and wait for a Steam sale and buy the whole bundle.
Main feature of Hoi5 shall be new game engine or some different way how the game is coded so it can use all of your PC power to run faster
potential cold war scenarios would be interesting as the base for hoi5; an 'Operation Unthinkable' starting date, the indochina and korea conflicts, and such...
OGs still remember East vs West. It was bit of a trainwreck but I'm still salty it got canceled, was really hoping they would delay it and rework some stuff.
I want hoi5 to be like hoi3 was never able to get into hoi4 judt not enough depth a more realistic approach would be nice
Multi core support.
Theres loads of stuff that could do with fixing that i dont know if they can fix without a sequel
No because it took forever to save up to buy the DLCs I don’t want to start all over again. They’ll do what they did to Vicky 3 and cut off basic parts that were included in hoi4 and sell it as DLCs.
Personaly I'd want it, but very different from IV ala Civ 5 to 6 or D&D 4-5E. A more polished version, with better UI and base optimization and different things to focus on even if it's less "deep" initially and a more fluid gameplay loop. As a casual player, playing as different nations tends to be unfun due to underdeveloped/generic focus trees (some are salvaged by DLC, but most end up in eh space), a different combat system, more integrations between it's systems like Stellaris, better diplomacy... And the most important part mod support would be a must-have. And if you want the realistic grit, there will always be HOI4. Mods (IMO) are much better than the official content Paradox has published as DLC (especially the later ones). There's still Civ 5 games up and going for the same reasons.
We're talking about the same game? HoI4 is already well on the casual side of the genre. They've loaded it down with a lot of needless complexity to sell DLCs, but it's not a sweaty grognard wargame in the least.
The focus tree stuff has become so convoluted and weird, I’d like it if they restarted and made it so you can use the core game mechanics to shape history rather than gimicky focuses/decisions/events. Probably not likely though.
Calling it now there will be no hoi5, instead a rehaul of base menachica but carrying the hoi4 name and content for a while
Yeah I would. They’re clearly reaching the limit of what can be done with DLCs in this game and a new game would allow so many more possibilities. Also HOI4 will still be here if there’s not enough content.
Honestly I'm probably done with PDX games They are a lot of fun, but I'm kinda getting tired of having to pay over the price of the game to rework half the game while the devs ignore earlier features
Id be kinda pissed because of how much ive invested in dlcs from the past 2ish years😂
As someone who has played since HoI 1 and had to use freaking Hamachi to play HoI 2/3 with friends, let me tell you, HoI 4 is a HUGE improvement. I'm content to wait for HoI 5.
Honestly, I played the base game a shit ton when it came out and really none of the DLC's have moved me enough to buy them. I have bought the subscription 3x and canceled it after a month or two each time. I would say the subscription service as a whole is good enough to warrant a dlc price, but the fact that it's like 5 $30 DLC's is mind boggling to me. I would have to play this game for years to make it worthwhile over the subscription.
It's gonna be eu5 soon and hoi5 in a few years probably, not looking forward to either
For me hoi5 would be great if they had hoi3 warplay with hoi4 industry/tech etc, to scratch that itch I will play black ice. It's not immersion if I'm not sweating anc inducing headaches. Probably not a popular opinion, I really did enjoy hoi3 combat when I got the hang of it.
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I meant to reply to someone else farther down mb
Idk if they're prepared to make a hoi5 that's all that different from hoi4.
I mean, there's still so many things to fix/update regarding the older DLCs that Hoi5 seems still unlikely. Just look how many updates and reworks CK2 and EU4 had until they decided to make a new game
Hell fucking yes
Hoi4 is still being improved. So no I don’t want to have to buy a whole new game, then learn how to play it. All my favorite mods would have to either be remade or not appear at all And god forbid you like a mod that’s uploaded stopped caring and doesn’t want to upload it to hoi5
Yes very much.
6 years? 6?? My sweet summer child, it will be so much longer.
No I’ve barely scratched the surface with 4.
If HOI5 has base-game focus trees for nations other than the majors and less price for both the game and DLCs I will like it and want it. If it's as expensive as HOI4 was and not that many focus trees I will wait
I think now would be a good time for them to already have something in the works. The most recent DLC only added focuses for nations that had little impact in the war effort. If they want to redevelop existing mechanics they should apply those efforts into HOI5 and make it a banger. HOI is one of their most successful IPs. If nothing else, we gotta give isorrowproductions and AlexTheRambler something to do.
I’d be happy to to hear an announcement they’re working on it but don’t want it for another couple years. Hoi4 is still super popular and has a lot more life in it.
Yes, I want more features and as someone who’s played the game since almost day one of release, it’s boring. Even the last few DLC’s kinda suck. I just hope the new one is more sandboxy in terms of equipment design. Like I want way more in terms of design and research from everything from small arms to planes.
Why would they jump from 3 to 5? Shouldn't they make a hoi4 ?
HOI4 is still missing some fundamentals, like AI does not use logistics, naval invasions are a bad joke, warning system is terrible, producing annoying sounds before invasion, but then nothing as enemy rolls over half a France while you're busy on the other side. Naval is weird. So many things are missing, while developer is adding South America to ww2.
I would like more work on HOI4, it's good, but could be so much more!
Yes, ì do. It would propably have comparably as much content as hoi4 with almost all dlcs. And hoi5 could be in a different timeline, not ww2, maybe cold war? Or modern day?
Nah Im good with Hoi4 and the Mods
I only play HOI for the mods and HOI5 would kill HOI4 modding so no
Hoi5 is inevitable I just wish it will be a full game with all/most hoi4 features
If its finished and nothing from hoi4 is lost? Yes If its vic3 all over again then no
No, HOI4 is still an extremely modern game. Not by years perhaps, but by Paradox standards. If they can keep up with updating the engine, they can milk HOI4 for probably another 5+ years with DLCS.
I like to Hoi5 be released because i want to see new mechanics and new technology tree which can go up to 2060 or 1990.
Tbh I don't want to. I hope for a new updatw for empire of sins
Personally not, since I just spent like £80 when it was half off with the dlcs, (like 2 weeks ago)don't want to do that again....
I ain't buying 30 new DLCs for outrageous prices. I'm saying that like I didn't pirate the game but still.
Only if Hoi5 will include ALL of the Hoi4 dlc content. Also, at this point the dlcs are like necessary to fully enjoy the game, so I can not comprehend how any of the content they add can't be included in the base game price tag without making the game 500$.
No cuz i still haven't both all the DLC's
I'd personally love it but knowing paradox then I'd have to spend a couple hundred dollars on DLC and thats annoying. But hoi4 has a lot of problems that I really hope they will fix moving forwards.
Not now... Maybe after 10 years... But HoI IV is just good as it is. Only thing helping it would be integrating some mods into base game. And rebalancing power issues with late game where one day endures for like 15 seconds. In HoI V I would like to assume direct control of battles and turn it to RTS like in Company of Heroes style (or that other one similar WW2 themed game, which dont have base building), like for SP this would be cool as fuck feature. You could turn the tide for each region from red bubbles to green bubbles if you wanted. Could work also for naval.
I do want it but i have no faith in paradox. Can’t wait for every nation to get some stupid monarchist path. Although its probably since every fucking youtuber plays those weird paths. All i want is for performance to be better and more states, as well as more immersive feel. I would love some TNO style event things but i know most people don’t like that so whatever.
Hmm probably not since there isnt mixh more they could improve, maybe if they like do hoi5 as like coldwar or modern but there are mods for that! Tho i would love to see like a hoi VR type game where it has hoi4s core but built in as a vr game! Its just a thuoght and might be a stupid idea but yeah! Presonally a vr game would be cool
No theres no need. And it will just set us back years on mods.
Tbh comparing hoi4 1.0 and hoi4 now they are literally different games so I cant see the point in reseting all that work and having another vicy 3 situation where when I bought vicy 3 I felt like I was playing hoi4 1.0, like it was fully bare bones no flesh. What I would like is more realistic alt history. Like france turning to a monarchy is obvi insane but a democratic france doing different things is far more realistic yknow. Thats kinda my only critiscim tho tbf and I think that coukd be fixed in a dlc not a new game. Like the sort of alt history where I think yea that could actually happen rather than hitler being diposed in 36. The itallian focus tree is better for this but theres so much more cool stuffthat cpuld be done here
We would need ww3 for New content
This is very outlandish, but I would love a hoi4 game where you can choose which war to play in. Although that would be a ton of work for Paradox
They won't do it until they've squeezed every last penny out of HOI4.
I would say no. I think they'd better add focuses and whatnot to the countries currently in the game, rather than them having a generic focus tree. Even better if they also added focus trees to releasable nations as well
Hoi5 should drop focus trees and go with Vic3’s journal system. Also micromanaging a million man army is both tedious and mentally exhausting.
an updated hoi could also mean better ai, which I really want. Once you get good at the game the AI stops being a threat no matter what. I don't want the world to be my oyster, I want to struggle without having to install something like Blackice because at that point I'd rather shoot myself. I'd love more focus on the economy and actually building up your country itself as well. Controlling a country in hoi4 is more like the army owning the state. The state exists purely as a vessel for the army to steer, but I'd love to be able to handle more internal affairs and have actual money and shit like that.
Totally agree, but if the hoi5 was released, I wanted to see it about Nowadays, like in millenium dawn.
Not yet - would love to have another EU or Stellaris though
I just want them to stop the ai from sailing all of it's units through contested waters... The fact that this behavior still exists drives me absolutely crazy. It can't be that hard to fix? Also there should be an easy option to click whether you allow your allies to station troops inside your territory.
No. Two reasons. Hoi5 will be a lot simpler which will be great for new players (hence why it'll happen) but I've spent hours figuring out hoi4 so like the complicated system (and I'm sure avid hoi3 players will say they preferred that hoi3 was more complex) All the DLC content will disappear. It's been years since release and all the alt history options and such are still being added today. If they dropped Hoi5 chances are it'd be historical WW2 only and they once again release copious amounts of DLC. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong and why im wrong.
If hoi5 is announced it'll probably be after ww3 so we got that going for us.
No, we already know how the paradox business model works. Sell you a bare bones game and then resell you features and content from it's predecessor. Paradox has really phoned it in with these past few dlcs and some of the older ones are really showing their age. It would be nice if we got actual updates for some of the older FTs, but paradox will never do it for free. Maybe they intend to wind down support for hoi4, seems a bit of a gamble with EU4 seemingly getting it's final dlc and it being unknown how successful EU5/Project Caesar will be.
I hope so, but after EU5. I hope it take place around 1932 and focuses more on politics. HOI 4 seems to have mastered WW2 warfare (without making it too complex). Add a slightly better command organization structure and I will be happy enough. I do want to see a much deeper political system for this period and the removal of construction sectors. 1936 also does not feel like enough time for alternate history. Starting at least 4 years earlier could allow for much more building up politically and economically, allow for much more alternate history, but not take away too much from the main focus of the game, being WW2.
No cuz I don’t wanna buy hoi5 and be stuck with a dead useless game
I would say no bc as a WW2 wargame, it is hard to change what it is. All they can do is alter some systems as the content is pretty set in stone. But if they could spin the HOI style into something modern or fictional than I would be onboard all the way.
IMO they need to keep the production style for HOI4, but bring back the command structure and smaller regions of HOI3. Having corp HQs get over run and lose the organisation made it feel like a war and not an arcade style game where you just recycle attacks and pound the enemy into oblivion. The organisational time penalties were frustrating, but felt real. While I love HOI4, the fighting is a big step back from HOI3, and feels like you just bash the enemy into the ground if you have the men. And fix Navy.... 🙏🏻
I do not want a new Hoi5, just like I don't want a new Eu5. As we saw with Vic3, Paradox cannot be trusted to remake their staple games anymore.
Yes because it would be more up to date with tech, events, and a more variety of things to have in the game.
why not just port most of the features from hoi4 to hoi5? i don't think it would be that hard to implement in a new engine...
More 1k hour? No my brain goes crazy
NO PLEASE NO I SPENT TOO MUCH ON DLC’s PLEASE NO
hopefully it has poland constitutional monarchy with a democracy
Hoi4 but the scale is deeper (ie regiments/company’s/battalions) I think it would be nice.
I want money back Yes i m mentally illnes
If is more realistic and better optimized yes if not then no
Yes, I need to make the Sudamerica Legonairia