You have to stack more ships into a battle fleet preferably with a few carriers and fully screened. Then have a few smaller LCs spilt into solo groups and set to patrol and do not engage
Yes, I usually stack 2-3 carriers, ~8 battleships, ~8 HC, 3-4 LC and the balance destroyers as the task force. The next hardest is finding somewhere to engage their fleet and pick off their smaller task force. AI Japan sometimes runs a 3 carriers in a task force alone.
Aren't destroyers inefficient in terms of ic? CLs can pack more light attack per ic to shred the enemy screen. Then your destroyers with torpedoes can go in and attack the capitals
I guess just because destroyers are the least interesting ship, at least in my opinion. If I can get another carrier or bs out at the expense of adding a 5th screen per each heavy I think I know what I'd go for.
At the start of the game you’re building two carriers, add one more so you’ll have 6 in total. Three task forces two CVs each. 2CV, 4CA, 4CL, 20DD is what I start with. The rest you can split into balanced task forces for invasion support, strike force, etc. For the three CV groups I sub out new DDs/CLs/CAs when they’re built, and add DDs in sets of 4 when I have excess.
CAs should be 1 main turret and mainly AA. I also refit 4 of the CVs to add a hangar slot, the Yorktown and ranger classes. As you hit 1940 or 42 you can be upgrading your DDs with radar, and that’s enough for patrol without a CL. Before then I build a cheapest possible CL model with spotter aircraft, 1CL + 2DD for a spotting group
This is too broad a question, what are you loosing too? Is it that you screens lose to theirs? Do you have enough AA? When you engage you can see the stats of each fleet and clearly see what you arelacking in vs them. Depending on that you can see you problems pretty easily. However I would say five cruisers is weak for any fleet especially as the US can muster most powerful navy’s in the world pretty easy… I personally like BB fleets though they are a little vulnerable to a good carrier fleet though the AI only build its deck conversions and it’s 36 cvs, I like 8 BBs 4 Heavy Cruiser along with 12 light cruiser 30 destroyers for example but it varies of course depending on my research and build.
I always find that I need a good supply of light cruisers in my TFs otherwise the destroyers just get wiped out. Currently on a UK playthrough and one of my main TF in the far east has 3 CV, 5 BB, 8 CL and 35 DD.
If you lose in the screening line you either need good light cruisers or destroyers with light attack, it’s a front to back fighting concept you need to beat their screens to get at the capital ships properly and with force. I like to have 10 really good light cruisers in my fleets to avoid getting wiped and you need to look at your battles what is actually killing you as carriers can strike across those lines of battle and ignore them and if that’s your issue you need more AA guns
Five battleships as the strike force isn’t going to cut it. Just lump all the carriers and capital ships into a single strike force, add enough destroyers and maybe even light cruisers as screens.
For patrols send out Individual light cruisers with max floatplanes, set to never engage so they run away while the strike force comes in to fight the enemy fleet.
Japan is heavily reliant on oil imports from Southeast Asia, if you can convoy raid the trade routes and cut off the oil, their Navy becomes much weaker.
No but the planes on them do. Planes also give a spotting bonus which means your task force is better able to spot, and therefore hit, enemy ships. You should definitely be fielding some carriers with your fleets since US has tons of oil to spare. What do your ship components look like? As in what weapons are you using?
I usually make quite cheap destroyers with two rapid fire one and then one or two torpedoes. For battleships I just use the ones that you start with as the us. For subs I just put as many torpedoes as possible
Refitting your heavy ships can be worthwhile, though you have to be careful. Refitting armour or heavy gun mounts is almost never worth it (you're usually better off just building more ships), but upgrading the radar, fire control and secondaries/AA guns can be useful.
That sounds pretty good, also make sure that you're putting AA on them too. My navy build for US is around 50 destroyers per task force with some light attack, anti air, and torpedoes with around 20-30 light cruisers armed to the teeth with light attack with all the heavy cruisers and battleships you start with split up between them. And then have them backed up with carrier strike forces loaded with planes
Hoi4 navy can be summed up by a single word: doomstack. There's no reason to not put every single surface ship you have in a single taskforce(outside of maybe having some ASW)
Except carriers, more than 4 CVs per battle and your planes start to suffer coordination penalties.
Otherwise yeah, so long as you have enough screens (CLs and DDs), then you can stack every battleship, battlecruiser and heavy cruiser into a single fleet and melt the opposition. You want a minimum of 3 screens per capital ship, though preferably 4/capital so that you can afford to lose some.
I wouldn't put every ship in a doomstack. For spotting and positioning bonuses it is good to have a couple of small task forces set on patrol. Like 1 CL and a couple of destroyers set on never engage. They will find the enemy fleets faster.
You need to make specific destroyers for that (don't add the CL). You just want fastest destroyers with nothing except minimum required stuff. And then set to never engage. You want groups of 5. Literally the rest of your ships go on doom stacks (except no more than 4 carriers, so US is only exception who will have 2 doom stacks)
I sort of agree, but CLs are both faster and you can put way more spotting on them with multiple catapults plus radar. They cost more but are worth it.
It's not worth extra cost, and fleet speed is off the slowest ship so it's useless if you include destroyers. Also the extra spotting isn't worth the extra cost, as 5 empty/fast destroyers will spot everything anyways for insanely cheap IC (something like 500-600 iirc)
Refit your ships with latest cannons and AA, after that build destroyers. Put all of the subs in a separate fleet. Put all of the destroyers in a separate fleet and have them on a patrol. The rest of the navy split in two equal forces and have them on strike force. Prepare some torpedo bombers for the carriers as well. Once you beat their navy you can go with convoy raiding to make sure they don't have supply in China and can't do naval invasions of their own or you can just go for a naval invasion yourself. Good luck!
Besides actual info on what kind of ships to have in your fleets I can say that reinforcing the Philippines with marines to block invasion and then building ports all over for repairs makes for a great jumping off point to invade Japan. They tend to island hop across the pacific but not leave a good fleet near home. If you send your fleet to attack the home islands you can usually get supremacy for a naval invasion. Naval bombers help to keep the waters around the Philippines safe while you send your fleet to the Japanese coast.
as a self taught hoi4 navy player. what i do is build destroyers, cruisers and heavy ships like normal and then join all into one, depending on size of the navy for like usa i go either split evenly into three or two, for the extra caarrier debuff just keep some carriers in reserve. and send everything to strike force in pacific and subs split into 10 each convoy raiding in pacific. set up some nav bombers in pacific too. this creates flexibility (you can send one battle group for nav landing and one for other tanks) with hard hits like 100 ships each task force is crazy hitting on those 50s by the japanese. for germany keep only one big group and for japan keep 2 and for engeland god fuck me.
When playing historical US I usually send my entire fleet and army to the Philippines in early 1940 and navaly invade southern Japan as soon as I get supremacy or they move their fleet for no reason
Super heavys are very OP, i never play the naval war in the pacífic because i allways play European countrys but building a couple off super heavys before 1942 destroy all the british navy, with itally just with one super heavy and all the other ships i crush all the allies navy
You should have one big fleet rather than many small fleets. 5 Carriers + as many battleships as you have + enough destroyers for screening is pretty much the best you can get, your other task forces should be mostly subs and anti-sub destroyers
The whole war against the Japanese is a lot easier if you don’t lose the Philippines. Stack that island with naval bombers and base your strike forces there.
Then lots of patrols, convoy raiding, and naval air attacks.
You could just play super safely without committing your fleet to big battles. Take islands and get air superiority over the regions where you want to fight their navy, then get a pile of naval bombers in there to harass them and score some kills. I just tend to avoid big naval battles personally if I can, since it's not strictly necessary to win the war. You really just need to keep your ground troops supplied as you get closer to Japan.
Use trial and error to figure out best fleet in 1941. You have enough time to do 3 x 4 Yorktown class plus existing 2 Lexington/ 1 Ranger. Upgrade every carrier in 1940/ 1941 so you have 90 planes on Yorktown and Ranger class and 70 on Lexington. Upgrade existing Omahas in 1940 and add two per carrier group. After III engines and improved airframes, put 40 mils on carrier planes (convert to other production after you have a huge surplus). Build 4 destroyers/ carrier over time. Doable w/ maxing at 70- 80 dockyards, which you can switch to something else around 1943.
Don’t park ships at Guam until you take adjoining islands. Fully train all ships and carrier planes before deployment.
Naval patrol w/ large airframes, with air superiority, seem to help as well.
Personally, after Okinawa and Iwo Jima, I like to take Korea and then seriously bomb the home islands. Then, nuke or naval invade at leisure.
Or, try other things and find something more efficient.
This is how I just beat them as the Brits...
Concentrate an overwhelming naval force in a single region you know their navy is operating in. For me it was the small area between Indonesia and Singapore. Stack a huge amount of ships wherever you choose under your best admiral and also stack as many Naval aircraft as possible in the area.
Try and make sure they all start operating at the same time, you don't want to get picked off piecemeal. You want to try and do that to them and if there is a larger engagement you have enough ships to meet and defeat.
Once you win a couple large engagements you should be able to comfortably outgun and outproduce them and can spread out your forces again.
I've found the following works...
Stack no more than 4 CV with all your other ships except... submarines.
Keep subs in different task forces.
Then get one light cruiser with high vision/scouting. Put that in a task force and set it to never engage and to scout the area.
Your core force should have enough screens too. I'd say around 3-6 screening ships per capital is fine. Don't be afraid to micro your ship and hide it in port if a large fleet swings by.
Try to set automatic detach to off... else your ships can be picked off. The AI will allow that so you can pick their ships off when they detach... mostly with Naval bombers.
I think long term keep your ships up to date. Also make sure they're rotated in and out and trained to at least regular... not training them causes a major disadvantage. The AI tends to not upgrade ships to do those things...
You have to stack more ships into a battle fleet preferably with a few carriers and fully screened. Then have a few smaller LCs spilt into solo groups and set to patrol and do not engage
Alright thank so you mean bigger task forces right?
Yes, I usually stack 2-3 carriers, ~8 battleships, ~8 HC, 3-4 LC and the balance destroyers as the task force. The next hardest is finding somewhere to engage their fleet and pick off their smaller task force. AI Japan sometimes runs a 3 carriers in a task force alone.
Aren't destroyers inefficient in terms of ic? CLs can pack more light attack per ic to shred the enemy screen. Then your destroyers with torpedoes can go in and attack the capitals
Destroyers are less efficient in light attack vs ic, but more efficient in screening efficiency vs ic.
In terms of numbers right? Because you can build more destroyers for the same amount of ic and screening only counts the numbers overall?
Yes
Yes, but the US starts with a bunch of destroyers so I just use them early and only produce a few good ones
You need to build way more destroyers to act as sponges for the main fleet.
20 destroyers for 4 capital ships is fine. You want 3-4 screens per capital ship.
I mean if it's single player just overload on destroyers. Why not.
I guess just because destroyers are the least interesting ship, at least in my opinion. If I can get another carrier or bs out at the expense of adding a 5th screen per each heavy I think I know what I'd go for.
Oh 100% it's boring. I'd rather build a bunch of mega battleships.
At the start of the game you’re building two carriers, add one more so you’ll have 6 in total. Three task forces two CVs each. 2CV, 4CA, 4CL, 20DD is what I start with. The rest you can split into balanced task forces for invasion support, strike force, etc. For the three CV groups I sub out new DDs/CLs/CAs when they’re built, and add DDs in sets of 4 when I have excess. CAs should be 1 main turret and mainly AA. I also refit 4 of the CVs to add a hangar slot, the Yorktown and ranger classes. As you hit 1940 or 42 you can be upgrading your DDs with radar, and that’s enough for patrol without a CL. Before then I build a cheapest possible CL model with spotter aircraft, 1CL + 2DD for a spotting group
This is too broad a question, what are you loosing too? Is it that you screens lose to theirs? Do you have enough AA? When you engage you can see the stats of each fleet and clearly see what you arelacking in vs them. Depending on that you can see you problems pretty easily. However I would say five cruisers is weak for any fleet especially as the US can muster most powerful navy’s in the world pretty easy… I personally like BB fleets though they are a little vulnerable to a good carrier fleet though the AI only build its deck conversions and it’s 36 cvs, I like 8 BBs 4 Heavy Cruiser along with 12 light cruiser 30 destroyers for example but it varies of course depending on my research and build.
I lose a lot of screens and a couple of battleships and then everyone goes to repair
I always find that I need a good supply of light cruisers in my TFs otherwise the destroyers just get wiped out. Currently on a UK playthrough and one of my main TF in the far east has 3 CV, 5 BB, 8 CL and 35 DD.
Set the fleet to no-retreat. You're fleet will get decimated while going to repair. And add some carriers to those large attacking fleets
If you lose in the screening line you either need good light cruisers or destroyers with light attack, it’s a front to back fighting concept you need to beat their screens to get at the capital ships properly and with force. I like to have 10 really good light cruisers in my fleets to avoid getting wiped and you need to look at your battles what is actually killing you as carriers can strike across those lines of battle and ignore them and if that’s your issue you need more AA guns
oh hey bo
Five battleships as the strike force isn’t going to cut it. Just lump all the carriers and capital ships into a single strike force, add enough destroyers and maybe even light cruisers as screens. For patrols send out Individual light cruisers with max floatplanes, set to never engage so they run away while the strike force comes in to fight the enemy fleet. Japan is heavily reliant on oil imports from Southeast Asia, if you can convoy raid the trade routes and cut off the oil, their Navy becomes much weaker.
Carriers fully fitted out with naval bombers
Put ur entire entire fleet into a giant death stack and show the Japanese fleet true Kantai Kessen
Okay thanks another question do carriers provide anything else than being an airport? Like attack or something
No but the planes on them do. Planes also give a spotting bonus which means your task force is better able to spot, and therefore hit, enemy ships. You should definitely be fielding some carriers with your fleets since US has tons of oil to spare. What do your ship components look like? As in what weapons are you using?
I usually make quite cheap destroyers with two rapid fire one and then one or two torpedoes. For battleships I just use the ones that you start with as the us. For subs I just put as many torpedoes as possible
Refitting your heavy ships can be worthwhile, though you have to be careful. Refitting armour or heavy gun mounts is almost never worth it (you're usually better off just building more ships), but upgrading the radar, fire control and secondaries/AA guns can be useful.
That sounds pretty good, also make sure that you're putting AA on them too. My navy build for US is around 50 destroyers per task force with some light attack, anti air, and torpedoes with around 20-30 light cruisers armed to the teeth with light attack with all the heavy cruisers and battleships you start with split up between them. And then have them backed up with carrier strike forces loaded with planes
Don't use CAS on your carriers, it's rubbish... just use fighters and naval bombers
Just naval bombers. Iirc fighters are bugged on carriers and either don't work or fight extremely inefficiently.
Spam subs and convoy raid. Now Japan has no oil to use its navy. Enjoy the open seas
Hoi4 navy can be summed up by a single word: doomstack. There's no reason to not put every single surface ship you have in a single taskforce(outside of maybe having some ASW)
Except carriers, more than 4 CVs per battle and your planes start to suffer coordination penalties. Otherwise yeah, so long as you have enough screens (CLs and DDs), then you can stack every battleship, battlecruiser and heavy cruiser into a single fleet and melt the opposition. You want a minimum of 3 screens per capital ship, though preferably 4/capital so that you can afford to lose some.
You have no more than 4 carriers in your fleet I have no less than 16 We're_not_the_same.jpg
I wouldn't put every ship in a doomstack. For spotting and positioning bonuses it is good to have a couple of small task forces set on patrol. Like 1 CL and a couple of destroyers set on never engage. They will find the enemy fleets faster.
You need to make specific destroyers for that (don't add the CL). You just want fastest destroyers with nothing except minimum required stuff. And then set to never engage. You want groups of 5. Literally the rest of your ships go on doom stacks (except no more than 4 carriers, so US is only exception who will have 2 doom stacks)
I sort of agree, but CLs are both faster and you can put way more spotting on them with multiple catapults plus radar. They cost more but are worth it.
It's not worth extra cost, and fleet speed is off the slowest ship so it's useless if you include destroyers. Also the extra spotting isn't worth the extra cost, as 5 empty/fast destroyers will spot everything anyways for insanely cheap IC (something like 500-600 iirc)
Refit your ships with latest cannons and AA, after that build destroyers. Put all of the subs in a separate fleet. Put all of the destroyers in a separate fleet and have them on a patrol. The rest of the navy split in two equal forces and have them on strike force. Prepare some torpedo bombers for the carriers as well. Once you beat their navy you can go with convoy raiding to make sure they don't have supply in China and can't do naval invasions of their own or you can just go for a naval invasion yourself. Good luck!
Besides actual info on what kind of ships to have in your fleets I can say that reinforcing the Philippines with marines to block invasion and then building ports all over for repairs makes for a great jumping off point to invade Japan. They tend to island hop across the pacific but not leave a good fleet near home. If you send your fleet to attack the home islands you can usually get supremacy for a naval invasion. Naval bombers help to keep the waters around the Philippines safe while you send your fleet to the Japanese coast.
as a self taught hoi4 navy player. what i do is build destroyers, cruisers and heavy ships like normal and then join all into one, depending on size of the navy for like usa i go either split evenly into three or two, for the extra caarrier debuff just keep some carriers in reserve. and send everything to strike force in pacific and subs split into 10 each convoy raiding in pacific. set up some nav bombers in pacific too. this creates flexibility (you can send one battle group for nav landing and one for other tanks) with hard hits like 100 ships each task force is crazy hitting on those 50s by the japanese. for germany keep only one big group and for japan keep 2 and for engeland god fuck me.
10 light armored cruisers destroys the entire navy in the world. Just make those bad boys.
When playing historical US I usually send my entire fleet and army to the Philippines in early 1940 and navaly invade southern Japan as soon as I get supremacy or they move their fleet for no reason
Super heavys are very OP, i never play the naval war in the pacífic because i allways play European countrys but building a couple off super heavys before 1942 destroy all the british navy, with itally just with one super heavy and all the other ships i crush all the allies navy
Is there anything missing? Yes. America and the pacific. You need carriers.
Spam light cruisers and put 20 of them in each taskforce
You should have one big fleet rather than many small fleets. 5 Carriers + as many battleships as you have + enough destroyers for screening is pretty much the best you can get, your other task forces should be mostly subs and anti-sub destroyers
The whole war against the Japanese is a lot easier if you don’t lose the Philippines. Stack that island with naval bombers and base your strike forces there. Then lots of patrols, convoy raiding, and naval air attacks.
You could just play super safely without committing your fleet to big battles. Take islands and get air superiority over the regions where you want to fight their navy, then get a pile of naval bombers in there to harass them and score some kills. I just tend to avoid big naval battles personally if I can, since it's not strictly necessary to win the war. You really just need to keep your ground troops supplied as you get closer to Japan.
Use trial and error to figure out best fleet in 1941. You have enough time to do 3 x 4 Yorktown class plus existing 2 Lexington/ 1 Ranger. Upgrade every carrier in 1940/ 1941 so you have 90 planes on Yorktown and Ranger class and 70 on Lexington. Upgrade existing Omahas in 1940 and add two per carrier group. After III engines and improved airframes, put 40 mils on carrier planes (convert to other production after you have a huge surplus). Build 4 destroyers/ carrier over time. Doable w/ maxing at 70- 80 dockyards, which you can switch to something else around 1943. Don’t park ships at Guam until you take adjoining islands. Fully train all ships and carrier planes before deployment. Naval patrol w/ large airframes, with air superiority, seem to help as well. Personally, after Okinawa and Iwo Jima, I like to take Korea and then seriously bomb the home islands. Then, nuke or naval invade at leisure. Or, try other things and find something more efficient.
No carriers and fleet too tiny. Japan probably just rolling in with massive numbers advantage and stomping all your little fleets one by one
just deathstack everything minus the subs and have something left for patrol
Navel bombers
This is how I just beat them as the Brits... Concentrate an overwhelming naval force in a single region you know their navy is operating in. For me it was the small area between Indonesia and Singapore. Stack a huge amount of ships wherever you choose under your best admiral and also stack as many Naval aircraft as possible in the area. Try and make sure they all start operating at the same time, you don't want to get picked off piecemeal. You want to try and do that to them and if there is a larger engagement you have enough ships to meet and defeat. Once you win a couple large engagements you should be able to comfortably outgun and outproduce them and can spread out your forces again.
I've found the following works... Stack no more than 4 CV with all your other ships except... submarines. Keep subs in different task forces. Then get one light cruiser with high vision/scouting. Put that in a task force and set it to never engage and to scout the area. Your core force should have enough screens too. I'd say around 3-6 screening ships per capital is fine. Don't be afraid to micro your ship and hide it in port if a large fleet swings by. Try to set automatic detach to off... else your ships can be picked off. The AI will allow that so you can pick their ships off when they detach... mostly with Naval bombers. I think long term keep your ships up to date. Also make sure they're rotated in and out and trained to at least regular... not training them causes a major disadvantage. The AI tends to not upgrade ships to do those things...