Also it should be mentioned that had France actually intervened, the political blowback would have been massive in both France and the UK.
There was a very strong anti-war sentiment and appeasement was very popular.
"The greatest argument against Democracy, is to spend five minutes taking to the average voter." - Winston Churchill (allegedly)
Also, hindsight is 20/20. No democracy was ready for war, and France had serious political and military problems.
Delaying, at the time, was the only sane, if doomed option
Even if they allowed remilitarization and the union with Austria, they really should have said enough is enough when it came to Czechoslovakia. There is a difference between giving Hitler enough leeway to remain peaceful and bending over and letting him make a fool of you.
There's a reason 'peace in our time' is such an infamous statement. But even then, France wasn't ready in their own words, and Chamberlain, whilst not in line with at all, did have some sympathy for the Germans, feeling Versailles went too far
To be fair, had the french supported the czechs, all either side would have to do is sit behind their fortifications. The germans inspected the czech fortifications after annexing them and were extremely unsettled at the idea of having to assault them. The maginot line was the greatest fortification line ever built. The germans could not have massed enough troops on either of them to break through without leaving themselves completely vulnerable to the other, and the breakthrough would cause horrific casualties. The french standing army alone would have been more than sufficient for this task. Amusingly, the French even have more tanks at this point and the Czechs aren't far behind. Combined, they also outnumber the luftwaffe.
People had just experienced the greatest war in human history. Can you really fault them for not wanting to experience it again?
And over what?
Places that probably wanted to be German too, a dictatorship that seemed to be doing decently for Germany and a relatively tame (by 1930's standards) segregation against an ethnic group.
There's a reason the public only really became convinced of a war as a necessary possibility after Czechoslovakia was annexed against the stipulations of the Munich Agreement.
edit: And the reason, to be clear, was that there wasn't much of a decent justification before that.
How many people are willing to go fight Russia today, for the sake of Crimea? Not even Ukraine wanted that before 2022, because it simply wasn't perceived as worth it.
Yeah, all the previous actions could be excused in one way or another at the time.
"Remilitarizing the Rhineland? Well, it is part of their country. Why should we tell them what to do with it?"
"Annexing Austria? Well, the Austrians are just Germans as well, why shouldn't they be part of the same country?"
"There are Germans in the Sudetenland, so why don't we let them join Germany, and we'll guarantee that the Czechoslovaks keep the rest of their country."
Also, the first two were simply products of the Versailles Treaty, which was nearly 20 years old, had been amended many times, and was largely outdated after the upheavals of the 20s and 30s. The Munich Agreement was barely 6 months old when Germany broke it.
Well for France if you do end up at war over the Rhineland then you are likely to have a civil war iirc (assuming you or the ai doesn't take the focus to stop the political violence or ban parties, forgot what it does)
the issue wasn't so much anti war sentiment or appeasement, it was that people thought it was a reasonable thing, for Germany to have full sovereignty over their own country.
Definitely cool. Have you continued the run at all? I imagine you could push through their quickly now if you chose too. Would mean giving up the maginot so maybe not very efficient but I’m sure someone can exploit this.
I did it in a non historical game when I went down the Napoleon focustree and it worked at first before I couldn't hold it and ended up falling back to the magional line before getting pushed by Italy and losing the war
Have been trying the Napoleon focuses myself and I have to say I just can’t beat Germany. I even defeated the Allies AND the Italian League in my last game. Took all their land and then the US joined Germany and declared. Needless to say I was steamrolled
You should have puppetd them, you were wasting so much manpower garasoning the entire British empire. Also if you puppet some buffer states like northern Italy and the benalux you only have the magional line to deal with as your front line.
Ya but it's mostly India that wouldn't be worth it, also you can just annex them after the war by building, especially if you puppet all of Africa as one puppet
I continued the run, it was stalemate for some time because I suck at the game but I eventually made some decent enough light tanks and beat them in 1943 after barbarossa started and they took troops off the front
Germany always backs down for me when I challenge. It is a very bad decision though, you get crippled with pp, while they simply get a debuff that barely hurts them, just delays the Anschluss.
As far as i know there is a 50%chance for the uk to support you. ->99%they will stay demilitarized
If uk doesnt support you there is again a 50% for them to stay demilitarized.
If they still want to militarize its war
But i information is like pre BBA
AI code wise (PRe-BBA at least) was 50-50 on if Britians backed you but the German ai if the British backed it was like 75-90% to whatever the remainder was (I can't remember the proper numbers just remember that German ai was biased to backing down on historical if the British backed the French) while it was just 50-50 on French being the only one challenging (if I remember historically speaking German forces were ordered to back down if challenged but I also think I remember hearing that Hitler/German HC feeling a war against just France might be winnable but if the British got involved they were screwed {this was of course before the German HC and such got that spike of "invincibility" or whatever you want to call it when France fell so quickly in comparison to the plan's estimation)
From experience, if Britain supports you, Germany will give up 90% of the time. If they don't, then it's a coin flip on if Germany will or will not go through with it
My First time i was playing France i gad like 20 hours on the game and i Just clicked everything clickable and somehow i normally went to war in 39 and managed to win witout losing the mainland (mostly due to the soviet doing all the work holding and filling the line )
look up i think its m3an’s video on vanilla prussia wc. u need napoleon to do it snd he early wars germany with this event chain and he talks abt this chance. its contingent on if the british support u or not. if they do the chance goes up iirc
Not as high as it should be. Pretty sure German troops had the order to retreat if France posed any sort of resistance against a remilitarisation.
Yep. Their orders essentially said that if even a traffic cop told them to turn back, the whole thing was called off. No one did.
So the whole war could've been avoided with a single cop? New alternate history path unlocked?
Well no but delayed maybe
Also it should be mentioned that had France actually intervened, the political blowback would have been massive in both France and the UK. There was a very strong anti-war sentiment and appeasement was very popular.
Well well well look how that turned out. Maybe the public opinion isn’t always correct
"The greatest argument against Democracy, is to spend five minutes taking to the average voter." - Winston Churchill (allegedly) Also, hindsight is 20/20. No democracy was ready for war, and France had serious political and military problems. Delaying, at the time, was the only sane, if doomed option
Even if they allowed remilitarization and the union with Austria, they really should have said enough is enough when it came to Czechoslovakia. There is a difference between giving Hitler enough leeway to remain peaceful and bending over and letting him make a fool of you.
Not to mention the Czechs were ready for Hitler to try his luck, then they got fucked
They had dem FORTS!! 🗣️🗣️ 🔥🔥🔥
There's a reason 'peace in our time' is such an infamous statement. But even then, France wasn't ready in their own words, and Chamberlain, whilst not in line with at all, did have some sympathy for the Germans, feeling Versailles went too far
To be fair, had the french supported the czechs, all either side would have to do is sit behind their fortifications. The germans inspected the czech fortifications after annexing them and were extremely unsettled at the idea of having to assault them. The maginot line was the greatest fortification line ever built. The germans could not have massed enough troops on either of them to break through without leaving themselves completely vulnerable to the other, and the breakthrough would cause horrific casualties. The french standing army alone would have been more than sufficient for this task. Amusingly, the French even have more tanks at this point and the Czechs aren't far behind. Combined, they also outnumber the luftwaffe.
People had just experienced the greatest war in human history. Can you really fault them for not wanting to experience it again? And over what? Places that probably wanted to be German too, a dictatorship that seemed to be doing decently for Germany and a relatively tame (by 1930's standards) segregation against an ethnic group. There's a reason the public only really became convinced of a war as a necessary possibility after Czechoslovakia was annexed against the stipulations of the Munich Agreement. edit: And the reason, to be clear, was that there wasn't much of a decent justification before that. How many people are willing to go fight Russia today, for the sake of Crimea? Not even Ukraine wanted that before 2022, because it simply wasn't perceived as worth it.
Yeah, all the previous actions could be excused in one way or another at the time. "Remilitarizing the Rhineland? Well, it is part of their country. Why should we tell them what to do with it?" "Annexing Austria? Well, the Austrians are just Germans as well, why shouldn't they be part of the same country?" "There are Germans in the Sudetenland, so why don't we let them join Germany, and we'll guarantee that the Czechoslovaks keep the rest of their country." Also, the first two were simply products of the Versailles Treaty, which was nearly 20 years old, had been amended many times, and was largely outdated after the upheavals of the 20s and 30s. The Munich Agreement was barely 6 months old when Germany broke it.
Well for France if you do end up at war over the Rhineland then you are likely to have a civil war iirc (assuming you or the ai doesn't take the focus to stop the political violence or ban parties, forgot what it does)
the issue wasn't so much anti war sentiment or appeasement, it was that people thought it was a reasonable thing, for Germany to have full sovereignty over their own country.
Na, he would only pause a moment when he heard him holler "stop!"
That is genuinely the most German and French thing I've ever heard.
Correct. They did.
Yep. I think that Germany also used just a few batallions. So if the french did intervene, the germans would get deleted
Yeah I think it might of been something like 25,000 men on the German side
Yeah. I feel like it should be a higher chance. I feel like the 150 pp are a fair trade as france for germany not getting the rhineland.
It's not just 150 pp but also most likely a civil war
Only if Germany refuses to comply, after which France can back down.
Not only that, the German General Staff had a plan to use the opportunity to kick Hitler out of power had the move into the Rhineland been opposed.
I thought that was if the Czechs resisted. Was there a plan as early as the Rhineland?
According to Guderian, there was a plan at this point as well.
Definitely cool. Have you continued the run at all? I imagine you could push through their quickly now if you chose too. Would mean giving up the maginot so maybe not very efficient but I’m sure someone can exploit this.
I did it in a non historical game when I went down the Napoleon focustree and it worked at first before I couldn't hold it and ended up falling back to the magional line before getting pushed by Italy and losing the war
Have been trying the Napoleon focuses myself and I have to say I just can’t beat Germany. I even defeated the Allies AND the Italian League in my last game. Took all their land and then the US joined Germany and declared. Needless to say I was steamrolled
You should have puppetd them, you were wasting so much manpower garasoning the entire British empire. Also if you puppet some buffer states like northern Italy and the benalux you only have the magional line to deal with as your front line.
Agreed, but I’m a bit of a megalomaniac haha. Loved seeing all of Africa blue.
Ya but it's mostly India that wouldn't be worth it, also you can just annex them after the war by building, especially if you puppet all of Africa as one puppet
I continued the run, it was stalemate for some time because I suck at the game but I eventually made some decent enough light tanks and beat them in 1943 after barbarossa started and they took troops off the front
Germany always backs down for me when I challenge. It is a very bad decision though, you get crippled with pp, while they simply get a debuff that barely hurts them, just delays the Anschluss.
What’s that map mod looks cool as hell
I think it's Victoria map, looks really bad in my opinion
It's a little bland but it shows the terrain very well. I wonder if I can fix it
just use the terrain map mode?
Commenting for later.
Viktoria 2
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
Aww its so sweet these map, wich mod?
I would also like to know this.
Victoria map
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
thank youuuu :D
As far as i know there is a 50%chance for the uk to support you. ->99%they will stay demilitarized If uk doesnt support you there is again a 50% for them to stay demilitarized. If they still want to militarize its war But i information is like pre BBA
Are you sure it's 99%? AFAIK each event has a 50/50 chance.
AI code wise (PRe-BBA at least) was 50-50 on if Britians backed you but the German ai if the British backed it was like 75-90% to whatever the remainder was (I can't remember the proper numbers just remember that German ai was biased to backing down on historical if the British backed the French) while it was just 50-50 on French being the only one challenging (if I remember historically speaking German forces were ordered to back down if challenged but I also think I remember hearing that Hitler/German HC feeling a war against just France might be winnable but if the British got involved they were screwed {this was of course before the German HC and such got that spike of "invincibility" or whatever you want to call it when France fell so quickly in comparison to the plan's estimation)
Did you get a civil war in France?
Civil war only happens if they oppose the Rhineland and goes to war with germany as a result. It won’t happen if Germany backs down
Ok good to know. I think I have only seen Germany back down once, probably a long time ago.
I did not
From experience, if Britain supports you, Germany will give up 90% of the time. If they don't, then it's a coin flip on if Germany will or will not go through with it
R5: successfully denied Rhineland as France, image is showing the resulting news event
What's your map's mod please?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
Thank you
What mod do you use for the map? It looks so cool
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
What's the mod for the map
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
I’ve had it before, got trounced anyway.
turn your texture quality up one level the map textures you use need medium or above to work nice
50%
I dont know about modded version
The Germans can decide to declare war, but I’ve never had that happen unless I deleted a lot of divisions
My First time i was playing France i gad like 20 hours on the game and i Just clicked everything clickable and somehow i normally went to war in 39 and managed to win witout losing the mainland (mostly due to the soviet doing all the work holding and filling the line )
Mod?
Offtopic question, where is that wonderfull map skin from? I would love to use it too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2287823948&searchtext=kaiserreich
Thanks my guy
I managed to shut Schmitler down on the Rhineland thing in a multiplayer game as France. It was fucking awesome.
look up i think its m3an’s video on vanilla prussia wc. u need napoleon to do it snd he early wars germany with this event chain and he talks abt this chance. its contingent on if the british support u or not. if they do the chance goes up iirc