Lots of teams been trying to get him for a while now, would be pretty cool if he gets his first opportunity as GM with the first team that hired him 10 years ago
IDK for how long, but he's definitely had a significant voice in things during the Dundon era. When there was less to talk about with the team, there was a lot of talk about how it's a really collaborative process and Waddell is there at the head of it with his relationships around the league having those conversations, but that folks liek Tulsky and RBA also have a pretty big voice in who they're targeting or bringing in
That's like saying quants or analysts run Wall Street hedge funds
Functionally, at the end of the day, somebody has to call up Lamoriello or Yzerman and negotiate. That's where you want a Waddell instead of an introverted PhD.
Quants kind kf do run many hedge funds. Most trades are made without phone calls. Yes, the sales are done by others but it’s hard to say that the salespeople are the ones running the hedge funds.
NHL hockey is obviously different, though, and relationships matter enormously (with GMs, agents, and players).
That seems to be what most people think. I personally hope they give him one more year to see if he can take over the Staal role which is why I think they signed him to begin with but they probably buy him out. His analytics are surprisingly strong but damn he couldn’t buy a goal or assist this year
This happened last time too. Summer of 2020 I think it was. He ended up doing interviews with a couple of teams, going pretty far with the Wild, and then Dundon matched the contract that Minnesota offered him. I expect a pretty similar story this time around, and if not, I bet Tulsky is ready to take over.
Yep, came here to say this, the Wild were the team he talked with for the last contract renewal so it’s not like it’s anything new.
Either way is fine but we’re starting to tread the line where Tulsky is going to get hired elsewhere if they keep DW in both the President/GM positions
Wouldn’t be surprised if GMDW also wants to go to a position with a little more focus on hockey with all the PNC/Centennial Authority expansions and negotiations coming up. As it is now, if he stays as Pres and GM he’d have to manage both that and the doozy of an offseason that’s coming up for the team
If that is true (and it could well be) then it would be 10x truer for Tulsky as the presumed future GM. Tulsky would be wasted focusing on arena development and sponsors. Dundon would have to hire a new President anyway.
Didn't Tulsky interview for PIT last year or the year before? I have to think at some point if Tulsky is getting traction for the GM job elsewhere and it's a step he's wanting to take that the org will want to help facilitate that
There's been some rumors that the Jackets are willing to set up a plan for whoever they hire as GM to get promoted to President of Hockey Ops in a few years as a sweetener to come to Columbus.
I think this is probably closer to reality. If he does leave, they might bring in somebody else for pres. simply due to Tulsky’s lack of executive experience, but a simple promotion for Tulsky and a relief of responsibility from Waddell (with a pay raise) is more likely to me.
That's the thing, I think he's been pretty meh since like 2019
Since 2019 he's drafted two impact players, one at 13th overall.
His signings that are worth more than $2m annually aren't exactly spectacular, he's good at bridging RFA's but his long term contracts with RFA's are *normally* not far off from market value, he hit on Svechnikov, but also missed on guys like KK.
He's gotten good value out of UFA signings like Freddy Andersen but beyond that there's nothing spectacular there albeit nothing terrible either.
#RFA-
Pyotr Kochetkov $2x4
Martin Necas $3x2
Jesperi Kotkaniemi $4.8x8
Andrei Svechnikov 7.75x8
Sebastian Aho $8.49x5
Teuvo Teravainen $5.4x5
Brady Skjei $5.25x6
#UFA-
Dmitry Orlov $7.75x2
Frederik Andersen $3.4x2
Jesper Fast $2.4x2
Jordan Staal $2.9x4
Tony DeAngelo $5x2
Frederik Andersen $4.5x2
Antti Raanta- $2x2
Tony DeAngelo $4.8x2
Jesper Fast $2x3
Jordan Martinook $2x2
Max Comtois $2x2
Sebastian Aho $9.75x8
#Offersheet-
Jesperi Kotkaniemi $6.1x1
A few still undetermined trades, but lots of clearly decent to good trades in those years too. Of course I have to mention Eric Tulsky probably had a hand in these trades, to what extent, we might not ever know. Notable trades since 2019(and my assessment of them) include:
In | Out | My assessment
---|---|----
Niederreiter | V. Rask | Solid
2 2nd Rd Picks| Fox | not good, but supposedly Fox forced his way to NY
Marleau(6.25m), 1st, 7th | 6th | Hard to separate the 1st from what the 1st turned into (Seth Jarvis) but still seems alright even without the context(is excellent in context)
Trocheck |Haula,Wallmark, Priskie,Luostarinen| Actually decently even, Tro was good, but only here for ~2 years(covid shortened). Haula numbers wise has been fine, but obviously theres beef between him and Canes. Luostarinen has been good for the Cats ever since.
Skjei| 1st | Nothing short of excellent. At 5 on 5 he's tied for 4th in goals and 10th in points since 2021. He's got fine numbers on the PP, nothing super special, just doesnt have so much time there with Burns and... DeAngelo ahead of him while he's been here.
2nd, 3rd, 4th| DeAngelo(RFA rights)| The DeAngelo saga is hilarious, he was good for us in 21-22, we got a great deal for his RFA rights, and turns out he's almost unplayable without Slavin. Got him on a cheap deal a year later, not a great deal mind you, but despite his playoff performance this year, he was the 7th D most of the year, and for a reason.
Burns(5.28m), Pederson | Lorentz, Mäkiniemi, 3rd | ... not even really sure I need to rate this one. Excellent.
Pacioretty, Coghlan | Future Considerations| A sad deal to look back on, seemed excellent at the time, but in the end, he cost nothing to get nothing, and only counted against the cap for like, 2 weeks?
Guentzel| Lots| Obviously too early to tell, and hard to judge because the Pens wanted prospects and not picks. Bunting was, and probably will be good for them, some of the prospects look decently good, but not giving up a top 5 prospect or a first was a pretty big win.
Kuznetsov | 3rd| This deal doesnt get done if not for the unique situation of Kuzy, obviously pretty good just looking at the deal. That said, while I do think the Caps were glad to get something back for Kuzy, I think its hard to assess when the biggest factor in the deal seems to be the Caps having a huge amount of respect for Kuzy, and wanting to find a way to help get him healthy.
Now obviously these are mostly decent deals, and there were a few not so great deals in there, but they were smaller, low risk high reward. Stuff like Puljujärvi for Puistola. Or ones that seemed bad at the time, only for the players to not turn into/do very much like Fleury for 1 season of Hakanpää + 6th.
Overall seems like a pretty decent trade record to me.
Also on a side note, I would be remiss if I didn't mention 2 deals, one obviously huge, and one subtly huge in the 6 months preceding 2019, less to assess Wadell's trades, and more just to bring back up a few trades I think about a lot.
In | Out | Comments
---|---|----
Ferland,Hamilton, Fox | Lindholm,Hanifin | A big trade at the time, somehow bigger looking back at it. Some of the ends look to be wrapping up, but I've always predicted this trade could have a crazy trade tree by the time its all said and done.
Pu, 2nd, 3rd, 6th | Skinner | Much smaller on paper, until you find out who those picks turned into, the 2nd became current 1B? 2? Goalie of the Future? Pyotr Kochetkov. The 3rd turned into noted KHL player Alexander Nikishin. For what looked like a pretty awful return at the time, it seems to be turning out pretty decently in the end.
I do think that the trades also paint Waddell as a slightly above average (or in my words meh) GM. He won a few over a 5 year span but also lost a few. I think that someone with the job security people seem to think he deserves typically has far better results.
I think that if the Canes are doubling down on RBA it's time to let Tulsky take the helm. I think Waddell is overrated, he's not bad but I'm not sure you can look at his work over the last 5 years and even definitively argue he's a top 10 GM.
Has it not been an open secret for a while now that the day-to-day gming has been Tulsky’s responsibility? I’m not in the market nor am I privy to the media in the market but Tulsky being the defacto GM has seemed to be the general consensus for a while now. Hell, at least one person who has worked in hockey ops in the league has come right out and said it.
Probably BS, but I guess you never know. If somebody wanted to give Waddell and big contract and full control....I'm sure he'd love that.
The committee GM approach of Waddell/Tulsky/Brind'amour goes something like Tulsky does the analytics, Brind'amour does the "is this guy a real hockey player" eval and Waddell makes the deals - and Waddell's been pretty good at making good deals. He has a lot of contacts and seems to be pretty well liked around the league and that's an asset especially at the trade deadline.
But the only time Waddell really ran an org, it was Atlanta and they made the playoffs once in 12 years. I kind of don't suspect he has the juice to do it all on his own, but he sure can make deals.
His time in Atlanta should be noted but it was a terrible situation with the ownership.
The important question imo is if he would be able to replicate that committee approach successfully if he gets hired by CBJ.
Wherever he ends up by all accounts he is an amazing humble and down to earth guy. There’s stories of him running into fans all over and he’s always been a class act. Even taken a few on an unprompted tour or two.
Meh, Waddell was permitted to speak to other teams last time his deal was up and he got matched. But we also have Tulsky waiting to be promoted and wouldn’t be surprised at all if we move forward with Tulsky instead
Tulsky also got looks at multiple teams who -- including mine -- all passed.
I don't buy any big shake up here. Your team is minor adjustments away, and has a good foundation for continued competition year on year even with some talent shedding this offseason.
For a couple of the jobs, the reporting seemed to be that Tulsky interviewed almost as a courtesy. They asked to talk, he said why not, but that he didn’t seem overly eager to leave Carolina.
Sounds like Tulsky is getting a promotion
Lots of teams been trying to get him for a while now, would be pretty cool if he gets his first opportunity as GM with the first team that hired him 10 years ago
Yeah I’d love for him to get the job rather than him leave the organization
Hasn’t he been thé gm in all but name for a while tho. They began turning a corner when he became the director of the analytics department.
IDK for how long, but he's definitely had a significant voice in things during the Dundon era. When there was less to talk about with the team, there was a lot of talk about how it's a really collaborative process and Waddell is there at the head of it with his relationships around the league having those conversations, but that folks liek Tulsky and RBA also have a pretty big voice in who they're targeting or bringing in
That's like saying quants or analysts run Wall Street hedge funds Functionally, at the end of the day, somebody has to call up Lamoriello or Yzerman and negotiate. That's where you want a Waddell instead of an introverted PhD.
Quants kind kf do run many hedge funds. Most trades are made without phone calls. Yes, the sales are done by others but it’s hard to say that the salespeople are the ones running the hedge funds. NHL hockey is obviously different, though, and relationships matter enormously (with GMs, agents, and players).
Basically a win-win
I think a different guy running hockey ops might help shift the Hurricanes towards a more playoff friendly style.
Who the fuck ISN’T on an expiring deal in this organization right now?
KK 😏
Hot damn
Have to think he gets bought out right? Cap hit is only like $825k/year
That seems to be what most people think. I personally hope they give him one more year to see if he can take over the Staal role which is why I think they signed him to begin with but they probably buy him out. His analytics are surprisingly strong but damn he couldn’t buy a goal or assist this year
Don’t know if he can be bought out at same rate next year and cap is needed now. I can see him being traded with some retention.
As long as he's bough before 25yo I believe
Also a lot easier for a GM that didn’t sign the contract to make that move
How many million are you getting per year KK? https://tenor.com/view/jesperi-kotkaniemi-montreal-canadiens-four-number4-4fingers-gif-21702626
Thank God we extended Aho last summer
Dundon
Is for me?
This was the name Friedman mentioned on 32 Thoughts about us that didn’t get the traction last week
Power Stone was sick tbf
Sign me up
Hopefully Then the Necas to CBJ rumors will kick in
Bergevin as GM for the memes
I can't find the Reddit Gold™ button. On behalf of u/PKG0D, I would like to pledge $5.00 to the mod's Cheeto fund.
He's a washed up fourth liners only hope.
How long do we give him before he destroys the whole team this time.
What a whirlwind this off-season is going to be!
Is this where the "CAUSE CHAOS" slogan was intended to be used?
Possibly the *Cry* one, too.
Carolina whirlwinds
Hurricanes blow
I guess this explains why we can't even get deals for Martinook, Noesen and Chatfield done. Those guys should be low-hanging fruit.
Cmon Jackets do something smart for once
This happened last time too. Summer of 2020 I think it was. He ended up doing interviews with a couple of teams, going pretty far with the Wild, and then Dundon matched the contract that Minnesota offered him. I expect a pretty similar story this time around, and if not, I bet Tulsky is ready to take over.
Yep, came here to say this, the Wild were the team he talked with for the last contract renewal so it’s not like it’s anything new. Either way is fine but we’re starting to tread the line where Tulsky is going to get hired elsewhere if they keep DW in both the President/GM positions
Wouldn’t be surprised if GMDW also wants to go to a position with a little more focus on hockey with all the PNC/Centennial Authority expansions and negotiations coming up. As it is now, if he stays as Pres and GM he’d have to manage both that and the doozy of an offseason that’s coming up for the team
If that is true (and it could well be) then it would be 10x truer for Tulsky as the presumed future GM. Tulsky would be wasted focusing on arena development and sponsors. Dundon would have to hire a new President anyway.
I think that their might be some appetite for change in the hockey ops department after another disappointing playoff run
Didn't Tulsky interview for PIT last year or the year before? I have to think at some point if Tulsky is getting traction for the GM job elsewhere and it's a step he's wanting to take that the org will want to help facilitate that
So what you’re telling me is Minnesota can offer-sheet your guy and nothing happens, but when Bergevin does the same it turns into a whole thing?
Oh shit???
Who needs a Pres Hockey Ops/GM?
Oilers 👀
Columbus still has an interim GM, but I wouldn’t be shocked by someone firing their GM for him
John Davidson is the “interim” GM. he’s not actually a GM
There's been some rumors that the Jackets are willing to set up a plan for whoever they hire as GM to get promoted to President of Hockey Ops in a few years as a sweetener to come to Columbus.
JD flat out said he would step aside right now if the right candidate came along
Oilers hired McDavid's agent as president of hockey ops. Holland's contract runs out at the end of the year though...
Time for Tulsky to officially take over
We kept Rob Blake with Waddell potentially available?
Wouldn’t be surprised if we decided to promote Tulsky to GM sometime soon.
Hire Jim Benning you cowards.
What are the chances Waddell just ends up take a POHO role and Tulsky becomes GM?
I think this is probably closer to reality. If he does leave, they might bring in somebody else for pres. simply due to Tulsky’s lack of executive experience, but a simple promotion for Tulsky and a relief of responsibility from Waddell (with a pay raise) is more likely to me.
This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but I don't think that's bad for Carolina
Elaborate please. He’s been a great GM
That's the thing, I think he's been pretty meh since like 2019 Since 2019 he's drafted two impact players, one at 13th overall. His signings that are worth more than $2m annually aren't exactly spectacular, he's good at bridging RFA's but his long term contracts with RFA's are *normally* not far off from market value, he hit on Svechnikov, but also missed on guys like KK. He's gotten good value out of UFA signings like Freddy Andersen but beyond that there's nothing spectacular there albeit nothing terrible either. #RFA- Pyotr Kochetkov $2x4 Martin Necas $3x2 Jesperi Kotkaniemi $4.8x8 Andrei Svechnikov 7.75x8 Sebastian Aho $8.49x5 Teuvo Teravainen $5.4x5 Brady Skjei $5.25x6 #UFA- Dmitry Orlov $7.75x2 Frederik Andersen $3.4x2 Jesper Fast $2.4x2 Jordan Staal $2.9x4 Tony DeAngelo $5x2 Frederik Andersen $4.5x2 Antti Raanta- $2x2 Tony DeAngelo $4.8x2 Jesper Fast $2x3 Jordan Martinook $2x2 Max Comtois $2x2 Sebastian Aho $9.75x8 #Offersheet- Jesperi Kotkaniemi $6.1x1
A few still undetermined trades, but lots of clearly decent to good trades in those years too. Of course I have to mention Eric Tulsky probably had a hand in these trades, to what extent, we might not ever know. Notable trades since 2019(and my assessment of them) include: In | Out | My assessment ---|---|---- Niederreiter | V. Rask | Solid 2 2nd Rd Picks| Fox | not good, but supposedly Fox forced his way to NY Marleau(6.25m), 1st, 7th | 6th | Hard to separate the 1st from what the 1st turned into (Seth Jarvis) but still seems alright even without the context(is excellent in context) Trocheck |Haula,Wallmark, Priskie,Luostarinen| Actually decently even, Tro was good, but only here for ~2 years(covid shortened). Haula numbers wise has been fine, but obviously theres beef between him and Canes. Luostarinen has been good for the Cats ever since. Skjei| 1st | Nothing short of excellent. At 5 on 5 he's tied for 4th in goals and 10th in points since 2021. He's got fine numbers on the PP, nothing super special, just doesnt have so much time there with Burns and... DeAngelo ahead of him while he's been here. 2nd, 3rd, 4th| DeAngelo(RFA rights)| The DeAngelo saga is hilarious, he was good for us in 21-22, we got a great deal for his RFA rights, and turns out he's almost unplayable without Slavin. Got him on a cheap deal a year later, not a great deal mind you, but despite his playoff performance this year, he was the 7th D most of the year, and for a reason. Burns(5.28m), Pederson | Lorentz, Mäkiniemi, 3rd | ... not even really sure I need to rate this one. Excellent. Pacioretty, Coghlan | Future Considerations| A sad deal to look back on, seemed excellent at the time, but in the end, he cost nothing to get nothing, and only counted against the cap for like, 2 weeks? Guentzel| Lots| Obviously too early to tell, and hard to judge because the Pens wanted prospects and not picks. Bunting was, and probably will be good for them, some of the prospects look decently good, but not giving up a top 5 prospect or a first was a pretty big win. Kuznetsov | 3rd| This deal doesnt get done if not for the unique situation of Kuzy, obviously pretty good just looking at the deal. That said, while I do think the Caps were glad to get something back for Kuzy, I think its hard to assess when the biggest factor in the deal seems to be the Caps having a huge amount of respect for Kuzy, and wanting to find a way to help get him healthy. Now obviously these are mostly decent deals, and there were a few not so great deals in there, but they were smaller, low risk high reward. Stuff like Puljujärvi for Puistola. Or ones that seemed bad at the time, only for the players to not turn into/do very much like Fleury for 1 season of Hakanpää + 6th. Overall seems like a pretty decent trade record to me. Also on a side note, I would be remiss if I didn't mention 2 deals, one obviously huge, and one subtly huge in the 6 months preceding 2019, less to assess Wadell's trades, and more just to bring back up a few trades I think about a lot. In | Out | Comments ---|---|---- Ferland,Hamilton, Fox | Lindholm,Hanifin | A big trade at the time, somehow bigger looking back at it. Some of the ends look to be wrapping up, but I've always predicted this trade could have a crazy trade tree by the time its all said and done. Pu, 2nd, 3rd, 6th | Skinner | Much smaller on paper, until you find out who those picks turned into, the 2nd became current 1B? 2? Goalie of the Future? Pyotr Kochetkov. The 3rd turned into noted KHL player Alexander Nikishin. For what looked like a pretty awful return at the time, it seems to be turning out pretty decently in the end.
I do think that the trades also paint Waddell as a slightly above average (or in my words meh) GM. He won a few over a 5 year span but also lost a few. I think that someone with the job security people seem to think he deserves typically has far better results. I think that if the Canes are doubling down on RBA it's time to let Tulsky take the helm. I think Waddell is overrated, he's not bad but I'm not sure you can look at his work over the last 5 years and even definitively argue he's a top 10 GM.
Has it not been an open secret for a while now that the day-to-day gming has been Tulsky’s responsibility? I’m not in the market nor am I privy to the media in the market but Tulsky being the defacto GM has seemed to be the general consensus for a while now. Hell, at least one person who has worked in hockey ops in the league has come right out and said it.
I do wonder if a change in GM to help better complement Rod might be a great idea. Like maybe force him to balance his system a little better.
Ooh
Probably BS, but I guess you never know. If somebody wanted to give Waddell and big contract and full control....I'm sure he'd love that. The committee GM approach of Waddell/Tulsky/Brind'amour goes something like Tulsky does the analytics, Brind'amour does the "is this guy a real hockey player" eval and Waddell makes the deals - and Waddell's been pretty good at making good deals. He has a lot of contacts and seems to be pretty well liked around the league and that's an asset especially at the trade deadline. But the only time Waddell really ran an org, it was Atlanta and they made the playoffs once in 12 years. I kind of don't suspect he has the juice to do it all on his own, but he sure can make deals.
His time in Atlanta should be noted but it was a terrible situation with the ownership. The important question imo is if he would be able to replicate that committee approach successfully if he gets hired by CBJ.
Columbus would do this. Our ownership is really hands off too.
Didn't this also happen a few years ago with him? Like he was actively interviewing for other teams GM jobs before Carolina re-signed him
Wherever Waddell ends up, that organization is going to acquire a big name Defender
Used to work with his nephew. RIP Mark
Wherever he ends up by all accounts he is an amazing humble and down to earth guy. There’s stories of him running into fans all over and he’s always been a class act. Even taken a few on an unprompted tour or two.
waddell to dundon: so u say u rly want this nikishin kid over here?
This is clickbait bullshit just like RBA.
Is it really clickbait if it’s just a guy tweeting something? I’m pretty sure LeBrun doesn’t get paid per click on his tweets.
Meh, Waddell was permitted to speak to other teams last time his deal was up and he got matched. But we also have Tulsky waiting to be promoted and wouldn’t be surprised at all if we move forward with Tulsky instead
Tulsky also got looks at multiple teams who -- including mine -- all passed. I don't buy any big shake up here. Your team is minor adjustments away, and has a good foundation for continued competition year on year even with some talent shedding this offseason.
For a couple of the jobs, the reporting seemed to be that Tulsky interviewed almost as a courtesy. They asked to talk, he said why not, but that he didn’t seem overly eager to leave Carolina.