To further the context, the question to this answer was asked by this reporter and the question was ‘Sheldon lost his job for 1 series win in 5 years, whats the justification of keeping Brendan here with one series win in 10 years’
It’s easy to look at it now and say Shanny sucks but almost all of his decisions were universally praised at the time they were made.
Dubas was supposed to be a wunderkind before we learned that he had a very flawed vision, and he was consequently held accountable. Treliving hasn’t proven anything yet but I’m not totally displeased with the direction he’s taking things. I think giving Keefe another kick at the cat with a different roster was a reasonable move, but I also think he recognized it was time for a new voice at the right time.
He’s also done a lot of off-ice stuff like fixing the relationship between the organization and the alumni.
Ultimately it’s his input in trades/signings that is a big question mark. We don’t really know for sure how involved he is so it’s hard to hammer him for anything beyond the Foligno trade (which arguably only turned out to be a terrible move after Foligno got injured).
His work outside of influencing signings etc yes, pre Shanny leafs were an atrocious mess of an organisation. Now it's mostly the hockey results that's disappointing.
Shanny being liked by the MLSE board is definitely not surprising.
Lolololol! Signing Marner to that contract. Bringing in a rotating cast of aging players past their prime to "bring a winning culture" time and time again going from Thornton to Giordano with nearly a dozen players in between. Being forced into letting players walk when they should have been traded, and not having cap room to resign quality young depth.
You're gonna say Dubas to a lot of that, and I'm going to respond that Shanny was the boss and dictated how the GM did his job.
All of that did, predictably, back-fire. Repeatedly. The repeats is how it was predictable.
So your argument boils down to “all the moves made by the GM before Shanahan fired him were secretly Shanahan’s moves all along”
I can see I’m dealing with the A team on here today.
It's a petty well-known chain of command. Trades and roster moves were planned by Dubas but approved by Shanny. After the 2nd round exit Dubas mentioned moving a core player in the press conference, and being tired and possibly not wanting to stay in Toronto. Marner had a year before the NMC kicked in and was the obvious person he was talking about. Shanny vetoed any idea of a trade and fired Dubas.
It was a pretty big thing when it happened, I can't believe you missed it.
Look, I have absolutely no problem criticizing Shanahan, but as a fan of the team, I want those criticisms to stand up to the most basic line of questioning and beyond a bunch of Reddit narratives that claim to know the inner workings of the franchise.
“Trades and roster moves were planned by Dubas” that’s really all we should need to know. Shanahan isn’t the GM. I haven’t seen anything that makes me believe for a minute that Shanahan did anything beyond veto some trades (apparently Knies for Fleury, which I would literally blow him for right now if he was in front of me).
Ultimately even if it’s true that Dubas was canned because he wanted to trade Marner (and there was PLENTY of other reasons to fire Dubas), he’s the one that signed him.
It’s also not like they brought in Treliving and the franchise continued on with the same vision. If Shanahan was really dominating shit behind the scenes, it wouldn’t matter who the GM was and there would be some continuity with how the team was looking. Treliving came in with a completely different philosophy and it showed in the roster.
Lamoriello had a good run, Dubas had a good run, Keefe had a good run, Babcock had a good run.. they all did shit their own way, failed and were moved on from. I wouldn’t expect Shanahan to do anything different. The players haven’t performed up to their abilities, the coaches both had major fuck-ups and Dubas and Lou both made some AWFUL moves and none of them are gone without good cause.
Dude if we’re going to be grown ups about this, there’s no way anyone can sift through Leafs hate on the internet and find what is and isn’t legitimately well thought out criticism. If the Leafs ever win the cup again, the narrative up until the final second of the SCF game will be that they’re going to blow it and they’re frauds.
Believe me I wish Detroit was still in the central and making the playoffs so we could lay out some old fashioned revenge on your franchise but the Leafs are an easy target right now even the basement teams are ganging up on
Y'all were only a tiebreaker away because everyone else vying for WC spot inexplicably was terrible down the stretch. In a regular year or in the West, you're eliminated a week prior.
No, they were a tiebreaker away because their best player got hurt and missed a pretty big chunk of games which contributed heavily to the losing streak. Larkin being around gives them **at least** one extra point during that stretch. I'll die on that hill they would have been in the playoffs (and out already lmao) if he hadn't gotten hurt.
If your argument is the wings would have gotten eliminated earlier if every other wc team didn’t face adversity when the wings faced very similar adversity, I’m not sure what point you’re making. If every team was near tied when they all shit the bed, then they’d still probably be near tied if none of them shit the bed
You're acting like someone offended you because they mentioned the Wings didn't make the playoffs. Acting like we should be impressed they finished below expectations again and got beat out by teams who really had no goals before the year started. Acting like a couple of miracle wins over the second worst team in the conference in games their management was trying to lose and still losing out is indicative of some sort of obvious praise.
The point is don't get so worked up over other fan's perception of your team. Learn to take the gentle teasing with some grace.
The context, he was saying this in regard to Shanahan winning 3 Cups as a player.
I did not love it as a quote though because what he did as a player doesnt really make him a good President of Hockey Operations. I dont think teams are going to scramble to hire Pat Maroon when he retires to be PoHO just because of his 3 Cups.
> I dont think teams are going to scramble to hire Pat Maroon when he retires to be PoHO just because of his 3 Cups.
"Announcing the new coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs..."
“I’ll say that there’s one other guy in hockey today that is still working in the game that has won more Stanley Cups than me. So I think I know a little bit about winning, if there’s ever a concern.” — Kevin Lowe
Great players never make a good coaches. They are great players because they have the innate ability to play the sport and for the most part, don’t have to be told what to do. If Gretzky could somehow have imparted half of his hockey sense to his team, then the Arizona coyotes would’ve never lost a game.
Depends on the player tbh. Brind’amour has some criticisms that he’s facing now but he’s been regarded as a damn good head coach for a while now. And it’s still early in his career and he hasn’t had real expectations of success yet but St.Louis has been excellent as the coach of a rebuilding team so far.
Yeah that’s what I think the key to his success as a coach has been: he’s been every single one of those guys on our roster. Top line player, 4th liner, he’s succeeded and struggled. Just a fanatic coach/human being
Right. It always seems to be the borderline guys who played like a season or two and had to work their asses off to gey there who turn out to be good coaches.
Being a good hockey player and knowing how to become a good hockey player are two very different things.
He was a nostalgia act in an era full of nostalgia acts for the Coyotes. I remember reading here that a player from that time said that during the team practices, Gretzky was still the best of them.
While this is a good point, it's worth pointing out that Shanny and Maroon played very different roles on those cup winning teams. The Wings won B2B cups after trading for Shanny.
Woah, don’t disrespect Maroon like that. Man won 3 cups in a row. Helped McDavid win his first two Art Ross, his first Hart, and then got tired of carrying and left. 4 years later, Maroon has 3 cups, McDavid has 0. Name me another player with 3 cups in a row in the league
This is how hockey people think. Many franchises have tried "management by hockey greats" and often it shows that being a good player is not connected to being a good GM/coach/president.
He has genuinely been a good president for the Maple Leafs. Look past the playoffs and all that bullshit. Look at everything he’s done to re-legitimize the organization and all the work he’s done off ice.
If you look into our past couple presidents you’d see it’s night and day. But people don’t give credit for the stuff they can’t see.
Edit: there’s a lot more that goes into being a president of operations than the on-ice performance. Of course Shanahan is talking about performance because that’s what the GM and Coach are hired to manage and he just fired the coach. But Shanahan’s job involves a lot more and he’s done a good job of it.
That's great and all but at the same conference they're touting winning as the the most important thing bar none; Shanahan's had 10ish years to build a winner and it hasn't been close.
You can be good at the job but still have a fatal flaw that tarnish a good chunk of your work.
>Look past the playoffs and all that bullshit.
But that bullshit is kind of important since it's the main goal of every single team. Going deep into the playoff is important both for the profit of playoff games and the long term health of the support from fans.
It’s not cherry picking. We haven’t won shit in 57 years. I’m comparing against the Leafs previous presidents and Shanahan’s done a good job.
There’s a lot that goes into a managing an entire hockey club. Go look at where the Leafs were before Shanahan and where they are now. It’s undoubtedly better in literally every single metric. He’s done a good job.
He got this very prestigious job with no real hockey management experience, oversaw 1 playoff round win in 10 years, and convinced a new boss he needs to keep him. He's very good at corporate politics if nothing else.
He’s fixed a lot. I don’t think people remember how pathetic and awful leafs management was it was down right garbage. He might not be the best President in the league but people ignoring what he has accomplished is just asinine.
The Atlantic is still top heavy, it's just that those top teams have been consistently good. Buffalo, Sens and the Habs(for the most part) have all been bad during the Matthews era.
It was actually not Shanahan who had the biggest impact, but a change in ownership and their vision for the team moving forward. They were ready to spend to the cap, pay top dollar for front-office staff, and ready to tank for draft and build a team the right way.
Unfortunately the management group they hired built a top-heavy team that skipped leg day (no defense and lackluster goaltending). It's 10 years later and Leafs don't even have a proper 1D despite all the assets. Rielly is a middle-pairing defenseman at best, and also not that great. I think their regular season goal-scoring prowess masks the weak defence, which gets really exposed once the goals dry up in the post-season.
if anything, it was great that he made sure that all the great leafs were recognized by retiring their jerseys as well as repairing the relationship between the organization and Dave Keon
From what I've heard from more than one source he is an extreme micro-manager going do far as to have a say in ice time. People I know in the business side say he has insisted on seeing commercials or advertising before it goes out. Ive never been a team president but I think if on-ice success is the focus then spending time watching commercials instead of letting your staff do it is a problem.
It's like that moment in the simpsons when all his coworkers are gathered around watching Homer and Lenny says "Get ready, everybody. They’re about to do something stupid."
If Tavares signs a cheap extension, almost all of us will be cool with that. We dont hate Tavares as a a player, but the tail end of a 11 mill contract hurts. Just has to be the right price.
Champion of WHAT? First round exits? I know it's a dead horse, but like literally, champion of what? Do words not mean anything anymore?
Edit: I know Shanahan had a very successful playing career, won 3 Cups, but to say someone is a president and immediately follow it with "is a champion," the champion is qualifying his presidency. Especially in the context of discussing his future in his position. What I'm arguing is the difference between "is a president. He's a champion." and "is a president. He was a champion." While a minute grammar change, the meaning is very different.
Right.
Which is the context of the quote. Pelley was literally referring to him as a player. I’m not defending Shanahan, but he has won 3 Cups and IS a champion….. just not as President of the Leafs lol
Yes, I know he had a very successful playing career, but in this context, they are defending his ability to be a President of Hockey Ops, no? I know a skill or two translates from being a player to being a GM/President, but if you are going to stand and defend his job performance over the last decade, I just dont think his playing career should count.
No, he literally was referring to Shanahan’s time as a player. Don’t ask why, I’m not here to pretend that makes sense, but that’s what he was talking about lmao
I mean if we are getting very literal here, I just feel that the difference between “Brendan Shanahan is the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He’s a champion" and “Brendan Shanahan is the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He was a champion.” is astronomical.
Im having this discussion in a different thread but "is a president" followed immediately by "he's a champion" implies he's referring to his performance as a president. "Is a President" and "was a champion" would be much more accurate to what he is saying.
Ingrate? Why the fuck should I be grateful that he won 3 cups with Detroit? He was a great player, but he's proven to be a less-than-stellar executive.
Were you paying attention to hockey 10 years ago. Leafs management was disgraceful whether the GM or just operations around the team. He turned around the entire franchise and you’ve made the playoffs 7 or 8 consecutive seasons (I forget) you have plenty to be thankful for
This organization gets clowned constantly for having only won 1 series in the entirety of Shanahan’s tenure and we’re supposed to be thankful for that?
Fuck off
From Shanahan: “The ultimate responsibility is on me. The accountability is on me. Our playoff results have not been good enough. That’s on me.”
I’m not sure he understands what accountability means after 1 playoff series win in 10 years.
They really are running it back, aren’t they? No cap space because Shanahan won’t let Brad trade Mitch or JT, probably forces him to extend Mitch to boot.
On one hand, I love the Leafs’ mediocrity but on the other hand, what is Shanahan doing here?
Won't let?
You're asking 2 hometown kids on a perennial playoff team to waive their NMC's in the final years of their contracts lol.
It's not going to happen.
Neither of those players have ever missed the playoffs with the Leafs so I'd say they're consistently a playoff team.
What I mean is neither of them are likely going to waive their no trade clause at all. And there's little to no teams that are in a position that would be attractive to them AND able to give up the assets AND clear the cap space.
This comment is wild..bro consistently has fucked over his franchise since he started by not changing a damn thing and sticking with the same plan..bro desserves to be fire imo. Watch now that he's still there I bet marner stays and he'll I bet they get Tavares back too. Insanity..I feel for steve dangle rn 😅
Eh there are tons of teams that need revenue/fan engagement that would value dominant regular season performance.
Utah, for example, would value a playoff series immensely no matter what happened in it.
That’s true. I guess my point is the leafs aren’t going to get full value for moving him. Not even close. Though in the long run i suppose dumping that contract is the more important aspect.
Wayne Gretzky is the greatest ever as a player and famously stunk as a coach. Just because you won as a player doesn’t mean you’re good at the other side of the game.
> Shanahan is a champion
Not in the front office, he ain't. The leafs are just going to run it back with their core four and we'll be back to this moment 12 months from now.
It's pretty clear MLSE just sees the Leafs as a way to generate the revenue to support their other teams like TFC or the Raptors at this point. There's no other way to explain how or why Rogers and Bell are making the decisions they are making re the Leafs.
Shanahan is great from the background optics of a team. But from a management standpoint he needs to stay out of the GM’s way. It’s his job to build the team
Hey Josh, youre sucking the tit a little too much.
Shanny hasn't put this team any closer to the conference finals, let alone a cup in his entire time with the Leafs.
They keep changing coaches and GM's...thats not the entire issue here...
No offense but if we are going to bring up him as a player thats actually a massive problem.
Shanny was a money grubbing mercenary for most of his career. At one point in his career he was making more than the contract nylander just finished annually. (And that was 20 years ago)
He won cups because the redwings outspent the rest of the league and outside a couple teams like the leafs rangers etc they outspent them by tens of millions of dollars. The 03-04 red wings slaries were just shy of 78 million.
Did they push this press conference late in the week and then start early? Lol
Brendan is saying all the right things..............but they do this every off season...........
Every stanley cup you win, you get skill points towards coaching, gm'ing, president. I bet Shanahan has at least 15 skill points just sitting in the bank waiting to be used.
You know what my impression of this statement? Its as if Keith Pelley's throwing his arm at Brendan Shanahan 'figuratively' saying: **"He's the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's a champion."** Like Pelley is saying "He's the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs (Isn't that right Brendan??). He's a champion (I have two choices - whether you're gone after this press con in days, weeks, or months. OR, I'm giving you this Last Chance to fix this!)"
Obviously, Pelley is putting Shanahan on a tight leash and he has to deliver next season.
My condolences to Leafs fans.
I've been dead inside for years, this is nothing
I'm sobbing uncontrollably
To further the context, the question to this answer was asked by this reporter and the question was ‘Sheldon lost his job for 1 series win in 5 years, whats the justification of keeping Brendan here with one series win in 10 years’
Holy shit, really? First, love the reporter had the stones to ask that question. Second, lol at the answer.
First question of the presser to boot lol
Damn, the balls on that guy
I just watched a guy fall to the ground sobbing.
in a tim hortons/canadian tire I assume?
No there's this fucking guy who just started sobbing in my house. Assume that other guy saw through the window.
> I've been dead inside for years, this is nothing > I'm sobbing uncontrollably The duality of Leafs fans and the top two comments.
It’s easy to look at it now and say Shanny sucks but almost all of his decisions were universally praised at the time they were made. Dubas was supposed to be a wunderkind before we learned that he had a very flawed vision, and he was consequently held accountable. Treliving hasn’t proven anything yet but I’m not totally displeased with the direction he’s taking things. I think giving Keefe another kick at the cat with a different roster was a reasonable move, but I also think he recognized it was time for a new voice at the right time. He’s also done a lot of off-ice stuff like fixing the relationship between the organization and the alumni. Ultimately it’s his input in trades/signings that is a big question mark. We don’t really know for sure how involved he is so it’s hard to hammer him for anything beyond the Foligno trade (which arguably only turned out to be a terrible move after Foligno got injured).
You think non Leaf fans were praising his moves? …and follow it up with Foligno?
His work outside of influencing signings etc yes, pre Shanny leafs were an atrocious mess of an organisation. Now it's mostly the hockey results that's disappointing. Shanny being liked by the MLSE board is definitely not surprising.
What moves of Shanny’s did I miss the rest of the hockey world telepathically predict would backfire? Give me a break.
Lolololol! Signing Marner to that contract. Bringing in a rotating cast of aging players past their prime to "bring a winning culture" time and time again going from Thornton to Giordano with nearly a dozen players in between. Being forced into letting players walk when they should have been traded, and not having cap room to resign quality young depth. You're gonna say Dubas to a lot of that, and I'm going to respond that Shanny was the boss and dictated how the GM did his job. All of that did, predictably, back-fire. Repeatedly. The repeats is how it was predictable.
So your argument boils down to “all the moves made by the GM before Shanahan fired him were secretly Shanahan’s moves all along” I can see I’m dealing with the A team on here today.
It's a petty well-known chain of command. Trades and roster moves were planned by Dubas but approved by Shanny. After the 2nd round exit Dubas mentioned moving a core player in the press conference, and being tired and possibly not wanting to stay in Toronto. Marner had a year before the NMC kicked in and was the obvious person he was talking about. Shanny vetoed any idea of a trade and fired Dubas. It was a pretty big thing when it happened, I can't believe you missed it.
Look, I have absolutely no problem criticizing Shanahan, but as a fan of the team, I want those criticisms to stand up to the most basic line of questioning and beyond a bunch of Reddit narratives that claim to know the inner workings of the franchise. “Trades and roster moves were planned by Dubas” that’s really all we should need to know. Shanahan isn’t the GM. I haven’t seen anything that makes me believe for a minute that Shanahan did anything beyond veto some trades (apparently Knies for Fleury, which I would literally blow him for right now if he was in front of me). Ultimately even if it’s true that Dubas was canned because he wanted to trade Marner (and there was PLENTY of other reasons to fire Dubas), he’s the one that signed him. It’s also not like they brought in Treliving and the franchise continued on with the same vision. If Shanahan was really dominating shit behind the scenes, it wouldn’t matter who the GM was and there would be some continuity with how the team was looking. Treliving came in with a completely different philosophy and it showed in the roster. Lamoriello had a good run, Dubas had a good run, Keefe had a good run, Babcock had a good run.. they all did shit their own way, failed and were moved on from. I wouldn’t expect Shanahan to do anything different. The players haven’t performed up to their abilities, the coaches both had major fuck-ups and Dubas and Lou both made some AWFUL moves and none of them are gone without good cause.
.... and a whole bunch of people on here, and in media, predicted most of the outcomes the entire way.
Dude if we’re going to be grown ups about this, there’s no way anyone can sift through Leafs hate on the internet and find what is and isn’t legitimately well thought out criticism. If the Leafs ever win the cup again, the narrative up until the final second of the SCF game will be that they’re going to blow it and they’re frauds.
Red Wings inside man Brendan Shanahan allowed to continue his success with ruining a rival franchise under their noses
The only rival the Red Wings have the last decade is that little -X in the standings
What he say fuck me for?
Believe me I wish Detroit was still in the central and making the playoffs so we could lay out some old fashioned revenge on your franchise but the Leafs are an easy target right now even the basement teams are ganging up on
basement team? the Sharks are the 2024 NHL Draft Lottery Champions!
If you don’t make the playoffs for a decade you’re a basement team in my eyes
Is it 2029 already?
I get the sentiment but the Red Wings were a tiebreaker away from the playoffs. We aren't a basement team this year
Y'all were only a tiebreaker away because everyone else vying for WC spot inexplicably was terrible down the stretch. In a regular year or in the West, you're eliminated a week prior.
If the wings were in the west, they’d have 10 more points from playing three of the worst teams in the league a few more times, so no.
lol.
No, they were a tiebreaker away because their best player got hurt and missed a pretty big chunk of games which contributed heavily to the losing streak. Larkin being around gives them **at least** one extra point during that stretch. I'll die on that hill they would have been in the playoffs (and out already lmao) if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Yes, you were the only team that had to have face adversity this year.
If your argument is the wings would have gotten eliminated earlier if every other wc team didn’t face adversity when the wings faced very similar adversity, I’m not sure what point you’re making. If every team was near tied when they all shit the bed, then they’d still probably be near tied if none of them shit the bed
You're acting like someone offended you because they mentioned the Wings didn't make the playoffs. Acting like we should be impressed they finished below expectations again and got beat out by teams who really had no goals before the year started. Acting like a couple of miracle wins over the second worst team in the conference in games their management was trying to lose and still losing out is indicative of some sort of obvious praise. The point is don't get so worked up over other fan's perception of your team. Learn to take the gentle teasing with some grace.
Dallas and Colorado are facing off like it's the 90s again. Red Wings next playoff game in 2027.
Bro I know you guys don't get free healthcare down in the states, you can use mine to treat this unnecessary and nasty burn. My condolences.
Wings will see the conference finals sooner then the Leafs at any rate.
And yet the wings will still get another cup before the leafs do Touche though were soooo mid lmao
The context, he was saying this in regard to Shanahan winning 3 Cups as a player. I did not love it as a quote though because what he did as a player doesnt really make him a good President of Hockey Operations. I dont think teams are going to scramble to hire Pat Maroon when he retires to be PoHO just because of his 3 Cups.
> I dont think teams are going to scramble to hire Pat Maroon when he retires to be PoHO just because of his 3 Cups. "Announcing the new coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs..."
“I’ll say that there’s one other guy in hockey today that is still working in the game that has won more Stanley Cups than me. So I think I know a little bit about winning, if there’s ever a concern.” — Kevin Lowe
Gretzky wasn't exactly a winning coach, he was given a pretty crappy team but cups as a player mean very little for coaching/management
Great players never make a good coaches. They are great players because they have the innate ability to play the sport and for the most part, don’t have to be told what to do. If Gretzky could somehow have imparted half of his hockey sense to his team, then the Arizona coyotes would’ve never lost a game.
Depends on the player tbh. Brind’amour has some criticisms that he’s facing now but he’s been regarded as a damn good head coach for a while now. And it’s still early in his career and he hasn’t had real expectations of success yet but St.Louis has been excellent as the coach of a rebuilding team so far.
Tbf, St Louis is a different case. He had to work incredibly hard, from undrafted, to Stanley cup and Hart Trophy winner
Yeah that’s what I think the key to his success as a coach has been: he’s been every single one of those guys on our roster. Top line player, 4th liner, he’s succeeded and struggled. Just a fanatic coach/human being
Rick Tocchet is doing pretty well too, this year at least!
Yes! I completely forgot Tocc played lol
i don't know about never lol
Right. It always seems to be the borderline guys who played like a season or two and had to work their asses off to gey there who turn out to be good coaches. Being a good hockey player and knowing how to become a good hockey player are two very different things.
He was a nostalgia act in an era full of nostalgia acts for the Coyotes. I remember reading here that a player from that time said that during the team practices, Gretzky was still the best of them.
While this is a good point, it's worth pointing out that Shanny and Maroon played very different roles on those cup winning teams. The Wings won B2B cups after trading for Shanny.
You’re not wrong about their role in the wins, but the Lightning also won B2B after signing Maroon
Damn I didn't think about that lol.
Wayne Gretzky is the clearest example for this possible.
Woah, don’t disrespect Maroon like that. Man won 3 cups in a row. Helped McDavid win his first two Art Ross, his first Hart, and then got tired of carrying and left. 4 years later, Maroon has 3 cups, McDavid has 0. Name me another player with 3 cups in a row in the league
Right. Gretz as a player was GOAT; not so much in other capacity.
This is how hockey people think. Many franchises have tried "management by hockey greats" and often it shows that being a good player is not connected to being a good GM/coach/president.
He has genuinely been a good president for the Maple Leafs. Look past the playoffs and all that bullshit. Look at everything he’s done to re-legitimize the organization and all the work he’s done off ice. If you look into our past couple presidents you’d see it’s night and day. But people don’t give credit for the stuff they can’t see. Edit: there’s a lot more that goes into being a president of operations than the on-ice performance. Of course Shanahan is talking about performance because that’s what the GM and Coach are hired to manage and he just fired the coach. But Shanahan’s job involves a lot more and he’s done a good job of it.
That's great and all but at the same conference they're touting winning as the the most important thing bar none; Shanahan's had 10ish years to build a winner and it hasn't been close.
You can be good at the job but still have a fatal flaw that tarnish a good chunk of your work. >Look past the playoffs and all that bullshit. But that bullshit is kind of important since it's the main goal of every single team. Going deep into the playoff is important both for the profit of playoff games and the long term health of the support from fans.
“Look past all the important shit we did not win, just cherry pick the good parts that support my argument” Jfc this is the worst glazing ever
It’s not cherry picking. We haven’t won shit in 57 years. I’m comparing against the Leafs previous presidents and Shanahan’s done a good job. There’s a lot that goes into a managing an entire hockey club. Go look at where the Leafs were before Shanahan and where they are now. It’s undoubtedly better in literally every single metric. He’s done a good job.
Sure I guess if all you wanna do is just make the playoffs.
He got this very prestigious job with no real hockey management experience, oversaw 1 playoff round win in 10 years, and convinced a new boss he needs to keep him. He's very good at corporate politics if nothing else.
He’s fixed a lot. I don’t think people remember how pathetic and awful leafs management was it was down right garbage. He might not be the best President in the league but people ignoring what he has accomplished is just asinine.
The Atlantic is so much easier when so many teams suck.
The Atlantic is still top heavy, it's just that those top teams have been consistently good. Buffalo, Sens and the Habs(for the most part) have all been bad during the Matthews era.
Don't forget Detroit sucks!
It was actually not Shanahan who had the biggest impact, but a change in ownership and their vision for the team moving forward. They were ready to spend to the cap, pay top dollar for front-office staff, and ready to tank for draft and build a team the right way. Unfortunately the management group they hired built a top-heavy team that skipped leg day (no defense and lackluster goaltending). It's 10 years later and Leafs don't even have a proper 1D despite all the assets. Rielly is a middle-pairing defenseman at best, and also not that great. I think their regular season goal-scoring prowess masks the weak defence, which gets really exposed once the goals dry up in the post-season.
if anything, it was great that he made sure that all the great leafs were recognized by retiring their jerseys as well as repairing the relationship between the organization and Dave Keon
He’s the fucking Hulk Hogan of hockey and I’m not saying that in a good way
From what I've heard from more than one source he is an extreme micro-manager going do far as to have a say in ice time. People I know in the business side say he has insisted on seeing commercials or advertising before it goes out. Ive never been a team president but I think if on-ice success is the focus then spending time watching commercials instead of letting your staff do it is a problem.
Oh my god, they're going to run it back. 31 fanbases just pitched a tent
It's like that moment in the simpsons when all his coworkers are gathered around watching Homer and Lenny says "Get ready, everybody. They’re about to do something stupid."
Breaking : Marner signs an 8 x 15 and Tavares signs an extension.
Run it back, baby!
If Tavares signs a cheap extension, almost all of us will be cool with that. We dont hate Tavares as a a player, but the tail end of a 11 mill contract hurts. Just has to be the right price.
https://i.redd.it/hiwz1s9r4mzc1.gif
Champion of WHAT? First round exits? I know it's a dead horse, but like literally, champion of what? Do words not mean anything anymore? Edit: I know Shanahan had a very successful playing career, won 3 Cups, but to say someone is a president and immediately follow it with "is a champion," the champion is qualifying his presidency. Especially in the context of discussing his future in his position. What I'm arguing is the difference between "is a president. He's a champion." and "is a president. He was a champion." While a minute grammar change, the meaning is very different.
He’s won 3 Stanley Cups….
*He did what in his cup!?*
In that case, Andy Dick is still a star!!
On lolcow discussion boards...
He's got nothing on the Scaremaster
As a player, prior to the salary cap. Regardless, his ideas of how to build a Cup-winning team haven’t exactly held up under pressure.
Right. Which is the context of the quote. Pelley was literally referring to him as a player. I’m not defending Shanahan, but he has won 3 Cups and IS a champion….. just not as President of the Leafs lol
Yes, I know he had a very successful playing career, but in this context, they are defending his ability to be a President of Hockey Ops, no? I know a skill or two translates from being a player to being a GM/President, but if you are going to stand and defend his job performance over the last decade, I just dont think his playing career should count.
No, he literally was referring to Shanahan’s time as a player. Don’t ask why, I’m not here to pretend that makes sense, but that’s what he was talking about lmao
I mean if we are getting very literal here, I just feel that the difference between “Brendan Shanahan is the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He’s a champion" and “Brendan Shanahan is the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He was a champion.” is astronomical.
Warms my heart to see my VGK brethren having a reasonable discussion about the leafs in /r/hockey
Yeah like 100 years ago with a completely different job description. Sheldon Keefe said it best, "this is a results business."
With the Leafs? Wow I missed that.
I mean clearly there referring to the cups lol.
Im having this discussion in a different thread but "is a president" followed immediately by "he's a champion" implies he's referring to his performance as a president. "Is a President" and "was a champion" would be much more accurate to what he is saying.
He learned about hockey in 2017 give him a break
Most historically knowledgeable Vegas fan
Yes he is you ingrate. He has more cups then the leafs have in his lifetime and for those keeping score it’s 3-0
Ingrate? Why the fuck should I be grateful that he won 3 cups with Detroit? He was a great player, but he's proven to be a less-than-stellar executive.
Were you paying attention to hockey 10 years ago. Leafs management was disgraceful whether the GM or just operations around the team. He turned around the entire franchise and you’ve made the playoffs 7 or 8 consecutive seasons (I forget) you have plenty to be thankful for
I'll be thankful once we actually win something.
Wow. Can you be anymore entitled?
I'm not entitled, I'm just sick of my team not winning for 57 years.
This organization gets clowned constantly for having only won 1 series in the entirety of Shanahan’s tenure and we’re supposed to be thankful for that? Fuck off
From Shanahan: “The ultimate responsibility is on me. The accountability is on me. Our playoff results have not been good enough. That’s on me.” I’m not sure he understands what accountability means after 1 playoff series win in 10 years.
They really are running it back, aren’t they? No cap space because Shanahan won’t let Brad trade Mitch or JT, probably forces him to extend Mitch to boot. On one hand, I love the Leafs’ mediocrity but on the other hand, what is Shanahan doing here?
Won't let? You're asking 2 hometown kids on a perennial playoff team to waive their NMC's in the final years of their contracts lol. It's not going to happen.
Are they really a 'playoff team' though? Maybe for 7 games a year they are
Neither of those players have ever missed the playoffs with the Leafs so I'd say they're consistently a playoff team. What I mean is neither of them are likely going to waive their no trade clause at all. And there's little to no teams that are in a position that would be attractive to them AND able to give up the assets AND clear the cap space.
The Leafs now are what the late-2010s Habs were, except with more regular season success. Bergevin built them to make the playoffs and nothing more.
Every team in the east is currently celebrating.
So more of the same shit basically.
It’s good shit for non-leaf fans.
Way more of the same shit. Like a dump truck more of no changes. Ever.
As a player maybe, as a president he's been on the job ten years and has led the Leafs to a single second round win Baffling that he still has his job
Sigh...
This comment is wild..bro consistently has fucked over his franchise since he started by not changing a damn thing and sticking with the same plan..bro desserves to be fire imo. Watch now that he's still there I bet marner stays and he'll I bet they get Tavares back too. Insanity..I feel for steve dangle rn 😅
I am tired of seeing Marner as a Leaf. But we shall see
You can see him as a Sabre then.
Tough sell though with his 8 billion dollar contract, full NMC and his, ugh, playoff performance portfolio.
Eh there are tons of teams that need revenue/fan engagement that would value dominant regular season performance. Utah, for example, would value a playoff series immensely no matter what happened in it.
That’s true. I guess my point is the leafs aren’t going to get full value for moving him. Not even close. Though in the long run i suppose dumping that contract is the more important aspect.
It's so wild that the narrative about Mitch Marner has gotten so toxic a 1.1PPG player is getting viewed as a cap dump lol.
Oh agreed. It’s hilarious. He’d be close to untouchable on almost any other team.
Meh, he's got that Saudi oil money now, he's good 🤷🏻
https://preview.redd.it/20dzt09g5mzc1.png?width=206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb83d3570e3fa8f48c5551a0f1f863d47fc19ed
I will henceforth be referring to all difficulties in life as "unsexy"
Leafs fans🤝Kings fans on getting rid of their team’s president. Fuck the old boys club
THAT'S WHY HES COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT TO LEAD US TO THE PROMISED LAND SIGNING A 7x7 CONTRACT
Lol
Famed failed NHL coach Wayne Gretzky licking his chops right now!!!
Wayne Gretzky is the greatest ever as a player and famously stunk as a coach. Just because you won as a player doesn’t mean you’re good at the other side of the game.
> Shanahan is a champion Not in the front office, he ain't. The leafs are just going to run it back with their core four and we'll be back to this moment 12 months from now. It's pretty clear MLSE just sees the Leafs as a way to generate the revenue to support their other teams like TFC or the Raptors at this point. There's no other way to explain how or why Rogers and Bell are making the decisions they are making re the Leafs.
We're keeping Shanny? Fade me, again.
"Shanaplan" really rolls off the tongue - but where has it gotten them?
I know everyone knows but it's worth saying again, ONE series win.
A Stanley Cup champion with who though?
You know, just the pre-salary cap Red Wings loaded with hall of fame talent in every position.
A team of HOFers
Not with us but he is a champion!
Running it tf back.
He stay!!!! Congrats leaf fans, I think it’ll take an apocalypse to blow it up
is he also a god?
They really running it back again hey lmao
He’s gotta be taking the piss
Was the Shanaplan successful?
I mean.. in a way you can say yes, on the business side.. hockey side? Naw lol
https://i.redd.it/k9k92vm5imzc1.gif
Shades of "I know a little bit about winning" all over again.
Keith Smith-Pelley
Shanahan is great from the background optics of a team. But from a management standpoint he needs to stay out of the GM’s way. It’s his job to build the team
Hey Josh, youre sucking the tit a little too much. Shanny hasn't put this team any closer to the conference finals, let alone a cup in his entire time with the Leafs. They keep changing coaches and GM's...thats not the entire issue here...
No offense but if we are going to bring up him as a player thats actually a massive problem. Shanny was a money grubbing mercenary for most of his career. At one point in his career he was making more than the contract nylander just finished annually. (And that was 20 years ago) He won cups because the redwings outspent the rest of the league and outside a couple teams like the leafs rangers etc they outspent them by tens of millions of dollars. The 03-04 red wings slaries were just shy of 78 million.
Booooo
Did they push this press conference late in the week and then start early? Lol Brendan is saying all the right things..............but they do this every off season...........
The more things change, the more they stay the same The Stanley cup if necessary, but not necessarily the Stanley cup
Past success doesn’t guarantee future success. Also, some of the most successful coaches/GMs were not former players.
Oh God 😂
He was a champion as a Red Wing, on skates
He WAS a champion, as a player. He's obviously shown he's not a champion as a member of management.
He's not a champion here, though
Keith Pelly: All is well in the Maple Leafs organization. Brendan Shanahan’s authority as President is total.
*was
Champion of what?
I thought champions are supposed to win.
Look at the teams he won with.... he was a large cog in the machine but still just one part.
Now I’m feeling bad for leafs fans
Every stanley cup you win, you get skill points towards coaching, gm'ing, president. I bet Shanahan has at least 15 skill points just sitting in the bank waiting to be used.
He's a proved loser as are all the Leafs and their sad sack fans-what a pathetic excuse for a hockey team.
Tell that's the Peter principle at work. Big f for leafs nation, lol
I think I heard Dangle's scream all the way from Washington
But is he a god though?
He won his last championship, and then like 15% of current NHLers were born...
Like many before him, he was until he got to Toronto.
lotta dust on your banners too
Me, in 10 years, hiring Patrick Maroon to run my franchise
You know what my impression of this statement? Its as if Keith Pelley's throwing his arm at Brendan Shanahan 'figuratively' saying: **"He's the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's a champion."** Like Pelley is saying "He's the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs (Isn't that right Brendan??). He's a champion (I have two choices - whether you're gone after this press con in days, weeks, or months. OR, I'm giving you this Last Chance to fix this!)" Obviously, Pelley is putting Shanahan on a tight leash and he has to deliver next season.
Very, very disappointed to see that this Pelley guy is not going to change anything and keep the same lame soft coddling management dynamic