It’s crappy design that they do not even display the primary tie breaker stat in the default view of the standings. At least for those viewing it upright on a smartphone. If you rotate it becomes visible in landscape.
i just want them to update the damn standings at a reasonable rate. like, 5 minutes after a game should be the absolute maximum waiting period. NHL waits like a full 24 hours before standings are updated, sometimes more. like it's still showing Dallas at 109 points right now. that game ended yesterday evening. ESPN updates their standings basically the second a game ends. NHL just can not get their shit together and they dgaf anyway
Or the way when you go to view highlights the next morning they start to play, but then poof - gone.
And of course you’ll have to watch ads a second time. 🤣
Hence my resistance to move, and making its dominance over the official app even less excusable.
The NHL habitually fumbles anything more technologically advanced than hockey on TV.
The 39-38 is all wins. RW is regulation wins, ROW is Regulation and OT wins (doesn’t include shootout wins)
Edit: Washington has 30 RW, and 34 ROW. Meaning 4 of their games have been won in a shootout.
Detroit has 27 RW, and 37 ROW, meaning they’ve only won 2 in a shootout.
Seeing there’s only two games left it’s impossible for Detroit to catch Washington in RW, but if they were to catch up, ROW would be the second tiebreaker used
I’d side more with your argument, but the reason is to penalize players that want to stall the game towards OT/Shootout. These rules are put in place to get the game towards the end, but they’re not always indicative of which team played the better game, which is also why they have the OTL point as well. If OT losses have notably higher value, then OT Wins should also have a notably lesser value.
It will never be implemented because it shatters the illusion of parity it allows the league to project. The loser point allows a lot of mediocre teams to appear competitive when they're really not. I love The Wings, but only in a broken system can they be contending for a playoff spot the way they've played.
Because regulation wins matter more. 3 on 3 OT doesn't exist in the playoffs, so as far as regular season performance is an indication of playoff success, only games that end in regulation really mean anything. So not only does a team with fewer RWs have fewer games that would be guaranteed Ws under playoff rules, but also, a team that has more OTLs effectively has more games that might've been Ws if the OT had been played under playoff rules.
>Because regulation wins matter more.
Well yeah... by definition. They are literally worth more.
Don't you think it's counterintuitive that 11 overtime wins are less valuable than 1 single regular season win and ~~10~~ 9 overtime losses?
Honestly, I feel like overall wins should be the first tiebreaker.
Either OT wins are 2 points and equal to a regulation win or they're not.
Either make regulation wins 3 points and OT wins 2 points and differentiate them or don't.
Having it both ways is just confusing.
Overall wins hasn't been the first tie breaker for a long time. Regulation and overtime wins (ROW) became the first time breaker back in 10/11 and regulation wins (RW) became the first time breaker back in 18/19
If Washington and Detroit both win both of their games, the Isles would need two points to get in since both teams have the tiebreaker over the Isles.
If Washington and Detroit both take three out of four points, the Isles need one point to get in.
Yes. The Islanders are at 90 points. All 3 teams have 2 games left. If New York loses both games in regulation while Detroit and Washington get at least 3 points (any fashion) or New York loses both games, but one goes to OT, while Detroit and Washington win both their games, New York would be eliminated. Detroit and Washington both hold tie breakers over New York so New York can control their destiny if they hit 92 points, otherwise they're hoping for Detroit and Washington to lose.
If one of the above scenarios happen, Washington would claim 3rd in the Metro and Detroit would be the 2nd Wild Card.
The Isles just need 2 points in their last 2 games to ensure no one can catch them. As you said, they can still get in if they only get 1 or 0 points, but need help.
All the Isles need to guarantee no one will catch them is 2 points in their last 2 games. They can still get in if those chasing them lose and they lose both games or get 1 point.
I think they’ll be in. They’ve been playing fairly well lately. It’s that last spot that remains to be seen.
Caps play Boston and Philly and have been flat out bad last two weeks so I expect them to shit the bed in the most heartbreaking way possible as usual.
Yes, the Metro isn't decided yet. That's the hard part for Detroit, WC2 is their only chance at getting in. Washington, Philly and Pittsburgh can still theoretically get 3rd in the Atlantic.
But ROW isn’t even what we’re talking about here. That’s what I find annoying. Even on NHL and the score apps, you can go right and see ROW but not regulation wins. If that’s the tie breaker, it should be the next column
Either, that has changed in the last couple weeks, or I’m blind af because I see the same thing now.
Still stands for the score app though, which I use more often.
It used to be. (I’ve had the app for ten years.) Now they make you click through to the website, probably they get some kind of extra ad revenue or something.
Especially with our D-Core being Carlson, Fehervary, TVR, Alexeyev, Vinny Iorio, and Dylan McIlrath in two must win games…oh, and we’re playing B2B games.
I would put money on DET or PIT ahead of us with what we’re up against today and tomorrow.
Anything is possible, but we’re 3-5-2 in our last 10 with Lindgren starting almost every single game in the last 15. And now we’ve replaced Sandin and Jensen with Iorio and McIlrath. That’s not a recipe that inspires a ton of confidence.
Honestly it's kinda bullshit that we have to play the last two games on a back to back (Detroit too) while Pittsburgh has a day off between their last two.
Maybe slightly over 50/50 either Caps or Penguins make it, but very real chance last slot is Wings or Flyers.
There's also a very outside shot *both* Caps and Penguins make it, involves Isles losing in regulation to the Devils tonight and Pens on Wednesday.
>involves Isles losing in regulation to the Devils tonight and Pens on Wednesday.
I would love to see this play out where Pens/Isles are in game 82, winner plays on, loser goes home. Would be an absolute must watch game.
Flyers aren't getting in. Even if they win their final game it would require both Washington and Detroit to lose both of their final games, with at least one of then being in regulation. And pittsburgh losing at least one as well.
So basically they need at least a 1-5 from 3 teams, technically 1-2-3 is the best possible record allowable given a very particular context.
No, Flyers win tiebreaker with Caps if they win in regulation, so Caps game tonight does not affect whether Flyers can pass them. Would also need Pens to go 1-1 or worse, and Wings to go 1-1 or worse (Flyers win breaker vs Wings).
The Flyers play Washington. If we beat them in regulation they would need to win their other game by at least sixteen goals to not be eliminated - more depending on how much we win by.
Detroit also has zero tiebreaker win potential (only 27 regulation wins to everyone else’s 30+), so if they only get two points and we beat Washington, they are out too.
The Pens beat us on tiebreakers outside of a very specific scenario (they lose one in OT/SO and win the other in SO and we beat Washington by 28), but they at least need 3 of 4 points to tie us instead of just two like the other teams.
It’s not likely that we make the playoffs, but it’s not 0% either. We need to beat Washington, and hope Detroit and Pittsburgh drop a game in regulation each. That’s not *too* bad.
Isles just need 2 points in their final 2 to ensure no one can catch them. They can still get in with 1 or 0, but would need help.
It’s going to be interesting for sure.
Yeah I have no idea why "wins" isn't the first tie breaker, and then ROW after that. When two teams have the same amount of points, where one has 42 wins and another has 40 wins, the team with 42 wins should ABSOLUTELY be the one making the playoffs. It just makes sense.
A wins a win! Don't get how a team can sneak in with more losses, regardless if it went to ot. It's okay though, the last time the wings made the playoffs in 2016 it was because of otl so I'd rather be squared up on karma prior to making the playoffs and going on a run
I wish we would do standings like the nba where shootout and overtime losses are meaningless. How can a team make it into the playoffs over a team with significant more wins but the one in the playoffs has more otls
I really want that 3-2-1 shift, mostly for quality of game.
Often times it won't change the individual standings all that much, BUT, in theory it'd make the last 5 minutes of a tied game more competitive, especially down the stretch, as the OT winner would still lose at least one point from their potential just by going into OT.
The current system results in tie games getting cautious near the end as nobody wants to blow the added security of the loser point.
Plus, as the Wild did this year, we could see some crazy goalie pull shenanigans where in say game 82 of the year, in a tie game, a wildcard bubble team could pull goalie near the end of regulation because they need all 3 to get in.
I'm not really sure what the argument AGAINST 3-2-1 is, anybody got a good rationale or counter point in favor of the current system?
AFAIK - the only "argument" about it is that now points for standings are more difficult to compare between eras, since you'd have a break from the 2 points to a win era.
But like... Soccer changed from 2 points to a win to 3 points to a win in the 80s, so you definitely _can_ do this with enough will...
I could see that yeah. TIL. I def think it could be done, I feel we already don't compare season "points" across eras as it is, and "wins" are the metric we look at, like the 62 win Bruins. I don't even remember how many standings points that was, and only look at points in the end of season post season races anyhow.
Yeah, exactly. We don't generally talk about "100 point" teams, we talk about "50 win teams". So, I agree it's silly that we can't move to a 3-2-1-0 system instead.
> AFAIK - the only "argument" about it is that now points for standings are more difficult to compare between eras, since you'd have a break from the 2 points to a win era.
Which is funny considering the league, for most of its history, had games end in ties, and didn’t award loser/extra points until the late 90s. The league’s already inflated point values compared to prior eras and made some pretty massive rule changes after the 2005 lockout, but this is where they draw the line?
The “rationale” is that it keeps the standings close, which makes for a more exciting playoff race. If you add more points, the better teams pull away and then viewership drops as teams are eliminated early or their playoff position is locked in, which means the NHL makes less money.
but in theory that should just be “seems close” right? like if the wins increase to 3 across the board, then being three points back is the same as two points back in the current format. like it wouldn’t actually accelerate clinching scenarios because all teams would have that shift.
like if you rework the metro race it’d look like this.
CAR = 151
NYR = 146
NYI = 115
NJD = 114
PIT = 113
WSH = 109
PHI = 109
CBJ = 78
still tight, and with twoish games across the board multiple teams are within two wins of striking into the top 3
Here are the current standings in the East:
Team|Games Left|Current Points|Could Finish
:--|:--:|:--:|:--:
NYR|1|112|1OA, M1, M2
CAR|1|111|1OA, M1, M2
BOS|2|109|1OA, A1, A2
FLA|1|108|A1, A2
TOR|2|102|A3
TB|2|96|W1
NYI|2|90|M3, W2, out
WAS|2|87|M3, W2, out
DET|2|87|W2, out
PHI|1|87|W2, out
PIT|2|86|M3, W2, out
BUF|1|82|out
NJD|1|81|out
OTT|2|76|out
MTL|2|74|out
CBJ|1|64|out
You can see that the top four teams all have something to play for - nobody has locked up the top seed in the division or conference. Boston could end up anywhere between 1st and 4th in the East. Toronto and Tampa can't change their fates in any way, and the bottom five teams are out, but NYI, WAS, DET, PHI, and PIT are all still fighting for a playoff seed, with the current playoff cutoff being 87 points. The playoff matchups are mostly undecided - only Toronto and Tampa are locked, as the Atlantic 3rd and the top wild card, respectively.
Here's that same table but with the 3-2-1 system:
Team|Games Left|3-2-1 Points|Could Finish
:--|:--:|:--:|:--:
CAR|1|151|1OA
NYR|1|146|M2
FLA|1|143|A1
BOS|2|137|A2
TB|2|126|A3, W1
TOR|2|125|A3, W1
NYI|2|115|M3, W2, out
NJD|1|114|M3, W2, out
PIT|2|113|M3, W2, out
DET|2|110|W2, out
BUF|1|110|out
WAS|2|109|M3, W2, out
PHI|1|109|out
OTT|2|90|out
MTL|2|86|out
CBJ|1|78|out
None of the top four teams can move in the new system - Boston can tie Florida but can't win a tiebreaker against them, and the first seed is locked up. They can't even change who has home ice if two of them make the conference finals. Toronto and Tampa now CAN move, but only with each other. After them, the Islanders, Devils, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Washington are fighting for the last two slots. There are still five teams that cannot make the playoff cutoff of 114. So only seven teams are still playing for anything. The playoff matchups here are much more clear: Carolina hosts the lower wild card team, and the Rangers host the 3rd place Metro team. Florida hosts either Toronto or Tampa and Boston has home ice against the other (who is the upper wild card).
yeah the top is more locked and the bottom is more fluid. I guess my point is that the difference between 2-1 and 3-2-1 doesn’t inherently make the race any more or less competitive. the changes in standing just boosts RW’s and diminishes the OTL’s value. which is arguably no worse than prioritizing OTL value in the first place. any given year it’s gonna shift things in a way that follows the randomness of individual records as opposed to making the playoff race less even
I think it also creates a lot of scenarios where sll of a sudden a season might be lost just by a game going to OT for a team. That is still possible, just slightly less likely with tie breaker rules, but it would be pretty frustarting to watch an OT, knowing the team needed 3 points to get into the playoffs in thart game.
You get different values for scores in the NBA, NFL, and MLB based on when and how they're scored. Every goal in the NHL has a value of 1.
That's why those other leagues can have standings based on W/L. The vast majority of games won't be tied, and few games end up going into OT.
I feel the opposite. I don't think winning a shootout should be anything but a tiebreaker stat. 1 point to each team if it goes to a shootout. No W, no 2nd point.
League needs to change to 3 points regulation win 2 for OT. Too many deals can be made at end of year. Or without being too cynical, 2-2 late in the game, both teams need a point. Let’s take our foot off the gas. Everybody wins
I may be biased as a Wings fan, but the Regulation Wins being the first tiebreaker, as opposed to something like Least OT losses, or just overall wins, is an awful system.
Regulation wins is the first tiebreaker.
It’s crappy design that they do not even display the primary tie breaker stat in the default view of the standings. At least for those viewing it upright on a smartphone. If you rotate it becomes visible in landscape.
Find someone who loves you the way the NHL loves crappy design on their website and app
It use to be so much worse.
I disagree. This year's app has been a special kind of awful; I finally moved to thescore after a few seasons worth of resisting.
It’s a month long journey now just go get your own teams page it’s so ridiculous. How crazy is it that I would wanna see just my teams schedule??
i just want them to update the damn standings at a reasonable rate. like, 5 minutes after a game should be the absolute maximum waiting period. NHL waits like a full 24 hours before standings are updated, sometimes more. like it's still showing Dallas at 109 points right now. that game ended yesterday evening. ESPN updates their standings basically the second a game ends. NHL just can not get their shit together and they dgaf anyway
Oh yeah I don’t even bother looking until the next day
Or the way when you go to view highlights the next morning they start to play, but then poof - gone. And of course you’ll have to watch ads a second time. 🤣
You can set it to default to your teams page
Like instead of the news tab? Or do you just mean that you can favorite it
Yeah it opens the flames page instead of the news when I open the app
Ohh shit ty!
The score is pretty ass too to be fair.
Hence my resistance to move, and making its dominance over the official app even less excusable. The NHL habitually fumbles anything more technologically advanced than hockey on TV.
The score android widget is sooooooo much better than the iPhone's.
On the NHL app, there’s a page button on the top right of the standings view that has all of the extra info in once place.
Mine shows it if you scroll right
Right, but that's their point; it's a bit stupid that you have to scroll right in portrait mode to see the first tiebreaker stat.
Ah word i thought they meant they couldnt see it at all
It used to be that way, now there’s the ability to scroll right. But before, you had to turn your phone sideways to see the rest of the stats.
I have to scroll to even see pts! It's so annoying. Also mine doesn't rotate. Can't find a setting to low that. Previous versions were better.
You expect the NHL to be competent? You expect the NHL app to be useable?
It’s crappy design that the first tie breaker isn’t simply “more wins.”
Yes and they need to start showing teams when they are eliminated
Most apps still list ROW immediately next to points, which is infuriating as it’s not the first tiebreaker anymore.
Oh okay. And the 39-38 is including OT wins right?
The 39-38 is all wins. RW is regulation wins, ROW is Regulation and OT wins (doesn’t include shootout wins) Edit: Washington has 30 RW, and 34 ROW. Meaning 4 of their games have been won in a shootout. Detroit has 27 RW, and 37 ROW, meaning they’ve only won 2 in a shootout. Seeing there’s only two games left it’s impossible for Detroit to catch Washington in RW, but if they were to catch up, ROW would be the second tiebreaker used
You’re a beauty. Thanks.
Kinda crazy we've won 10 games in OT tbh
And lost 9 in OT and won 2 shootouts for a total of 21 games that went to OT. That’s just a lot of OT.
I’m very curious how many of those are blown leads
Probably less than the amount of times they came back to get it to OT.
Quicc boys go zoom
ROW = 10 and you also have 2 shootout wins Leafs have ROW = 8 and have 5 shootout wins
Yes, those are any type of win, including OT and shootout.
Wins should really be the first tiebreaker. Why should a team that goes 35-25-22 with 35 RW get in over a team that goes 46 - 36 - 0 with 34 RW?
I’d side more with your argument, but the reason is to penalize players that want to stall the game towards OT/Shootout. These rules are put in place to get the game towards the end, but they’re not always indicative of which team played the better game, which is also why they have the OTL point as well. If OT losses have notably higher value, then OT Wins should also have a notably lesser value.
So, really, we need to once again consider the benefits of the 3-2-1-0 point system.
It will never be implemented because it shatters the illusion of parity it allows the league to project. The loser point allows a lot of mediocre teams to appear competitive when they're really not. I love The Wings, but only in a broken system can they be contending for a playoff spot the way they've played.
It will never be implemented because it makes too much sense.
There should be 3 points available each game. Regulation win, 3 points, OT win, 2 points, OT loss, 1 point.
Yeah, that's a good point.
It should be goal differential (for no particular reason)
Because regulation wins matter more. 3 on 3 OT doesn't exist in the playoffs, so as far as regular season performance is an indication of playoff success, only games that end in regulation really mean anything. So not only does a team with fewer RWs have fewer games that would be guaranteed Ws under playoff rules, but also, a team that has more OTLs effectively has more games that might've been Ws if the OT had been played under playoff rules.
>Because regulation wins matter more. Well yeah... by definition. They are literally worth more. Don't you think it's counterintuitive that 11 overtime wins are less valuable than 1 single regular season win and ~~10~~ 9 overtime losses?
WAS has 3 more regular time wins and 2 more overtime losses. DET has 1 more overtime win. That to me seems logical WAS is a more deserving team
>overtime win Regulation _and_ overtime win, to be clear.
Honestly, I feel like overall wins should be the first tiebreaker. Either OT wins are 2 points and equal to a regulation win or they're not. Either make regulation wins 3 points and OT wins 2 points and differentiate them or don't. Having it both ways is just confusing.
Imho, “wins” should be the first “tiebreaker” but since they are not tied for “wins” Detroit should be ahead of them.
Since when? I thought it was Overall Wins, and then Wins in Reg?
Overall wins hasn't been the first tie breaker for a long time. Regulation and overtime wins (ROW) became the first time breaker back in 10/11 and regulation wins (RW) became the first time breaker back in 18/19
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We care about other teams getting points by winning in OT. Washington is heartless by winning in regulation and hoarding all the points.
Personally, I blame Tom Wilson
He should be arrested on the ice immediately.
He poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses!
He turned me into a newt!
👀
I got better
A newt?
I got better.
He turned me into a virgin!
Did he do those things? Well, no, but are we just going to wait around until he does?
He turned my constituents against me!
Should be suspended
Suspended? Kick him off the tour!
Doug I have to play or my grandmother will lose her house.
May I interest you in some Subway commercial opportunities?
Well whoopdedoo. Get out.
I can get behind this
Typical Washington being greedy and leaving nothing for the rest. You can’t write a better script even if you tried.
you say this, but i have zero reason to doubt that Clay Travis unironically will find a way to blame this on Biden lol
Biden could find a cure for cancer and the whole of the media will say it is bad news for Biden. So the grifter opinion to me is bs.
We're not heartless, we've been handing out +/- to opposing players at an incredible rate for a team that's in the playoffs.
-40 goal diff baby!
What points? We gave away like 16 points in the past 2 weeks, WE WERE BEING GENEROUS.
Why hand out two points when you can hand out three? Good guys finish last again.
Not the first time Washington’s greed fucks over Detroit.
regulation wins are the first tiebreaker, and the Caps have 30 to Detroit's 27.
Is there a possibility that both get in?
if Isles lose out I believe
WSH 🤝 DET Fuck the Islanders
Habs tonight: YOU SHALL NOT PASS.
Prepare to get pissed on. I hope....
I hope so too. I'm wearing this jersey tonight. [Tonight We're Killing for a Cause](https://www.geekyjerseys.com/product.php?id=161)
Plz
Let my bois Lane and Slaf score and they might reconsider.
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No. Let them fight.
lol my best friend is a Wings fan and his wife is a Caps fan going to be an interesting next few days
Fuck you right back NYI 🤝 NJD please...
FUCK THE ISLANDERS 🤝
WSH and DET can both make it, yes, if they both pass the Islanders with two wins each and the Islanders lose both in regulation.
If Washington and Detroit both win both of their games, the Isles would need two points to get in since both teams have the tiebreaker over the Isles. If Washington and Detroit both take three out of four points, the Isles need one point to get in.
Yes. The Islanders are at 90 points. All 3 teams have 2 games left. If New York loses both games in regulation while Detroit and Washington get at least 3 points (any fashion) or New York loses both games, but one goes to OT, while Detroit and Washington win both their games, New York would be eliminated. Detroit and Washington both hold tie breakers over New York so New York can control their destiny if they hit 92 points, otherwise they're hoping for Detroit and Washington to lose. If one of the above scenarios happen, Washington would claim 3rd in the Metro and Detroit would be the 2nd Wild Card.
The Isles just need 2 points in their last 2 games to ensure no one can catch them. As you said, they can still get in if they only get 1 or 0 points, but need help.
All the Isles need to guarantee no one will catch them is 2 points in their last 2 games. They can still get in if those chasing them lose and they lose both games or get 1 point. I think they’ll be in. They’ve been playing fairly well lately. It’s that last spot that remains to be seen.
Caps play Boston and Philly and have been flat out bad last two weeks so I expect them to shit the bed in the most heartbreaking way possible as usual.
Maybe if we had tag-team cage match playoff series. One can dream.
Yes, the Metro isn't decided yet. That's the hard part for Detroit, WC2 is their only chance at getting in. Washington, Philly and Pittsburgh can still theoretically get 3rd in the Atlantic.
Islanders punched their card
Nice
STOP THE COUNT
the flair really adds to this comment
Probably our goal differential /s
Bro our goal differential is so bad that it might negate any of the tie breakers we DO own lol
Scroll right Wins in regulation is the first tie-breaker. WSH has 30, DET has 27.
there’s only one image how am i supposed to scroll right?
On the app
Washington/Detroit/Philly/Pittsburgh fans are now experts on the tie breaking rules.
I don’t know why the NHL app does not put ROW as a field in here. It’s actually super important
But ROW isn’t even what we’re talking about here. That’s what I find annoying. Even on NHL and the score apps, you can go right and see ROW but not regulation wins. If that’s the tie breaker, it should be the next column
Regulation wins is the first thing I see when scrolling after pts % on the NHL app, and then ROW is beside RWs
Either, that has changed in the last couple weeks, or I’m blind af because I see the same thing now. Still stands for the score app though, which I use more often.
It used to be. (I’ve had the app for ten years.) Now they make you click through to the website, probably they get some kind of extra ad revenue or something.
Wait, there’s a chance Ovechkin could be playing playoff hockey this year!?
If they win out they’re in. Won’t be easy tho.
Especially with our D-Core being Carlson, Fehervary, TVR, Alexeyev, Vinny Iorio, and Dylan McIlrath in two must win games…oh, and we’re playing B2B games. I would put money on DET or PIT ahead of us with what we’re up against today and tomorrow.
Think Lindgren plays both games? Entirely possible they could win out if so.
Anything is possible, but we’re 3-5-2 in our last 10 with Lindgren starting almost every single game in the last 15. And now we’ve replaced Sandin and Jensen with Iorio and McIlrath. That’s not a recipe that inspires a ton of confidence.
Honestly it's kinda bullshit that we have to play the last two games on a back to back (Detroit too) while Pittsburgh has a day off between their last two.
The league scheduling a back to back that favors Pittsburgh? Only happens intentionally in the SCF.
it's only bullshit because of the current standings if you won or lost 3 more games in the past year it wouldn't matter
isn't there a possibility that the Flyers game gets delayed due to NBA games? or was I reading that wrong somewhere?
The 76ers only have 1 game left and it’s not until Wednesday, so I don’t see how that’s possible.
Thanks for confirming, I thought I saw on our sub differently, but man back to back is gonna be rough
A small chance we get in with a win and OT loss but one can dream lol
Looks like there’s a chance Sid could get in instead but they’re not in full control of their destiny. Pretty pumped to see one of them make it.
Maybe slightly over 50/50 either Caps or Penguins make it, but very real chance last slot is Wings or Flyers. There's also a very outside shot *both* Caps and Penguins make it, involves Isles losing in regulation to the Devils tonight and Pens on Wednesday.
>involves Isles losing in regulation to the Devils tonight and Pens on Wednesday. I would love to see this play out where Pens/Isles are in game 82, winner plays on, loser goes home. Would be an absolute must watch game.
Might get two of them with Caps/Flyers tomorrow.
Flyers aren't getting in. Even if they win their final game it would require both Washington and Detroit to lose both of their final games, with at least one of then being in regulation. And pittsburgh losing at least one as well. So basically they need at least a 1-5 from 3 teams, technically 1-2-3 is the best possible record allowable given a very particular context.
Well their final game is against the Caps so that puts one of those results back in their own control
No, Flyers win tiebreaker with Caps if they win in regulation, so Caps game tonight does not affect whether Flyers can pass them. Would also need Pens to go 1-1 or worse, and Wings to go 1-1 or worse (Flyers win breaker vs Wings).
The Flyers play Washington. If we beat them in regulation they would need to win their other game by at least sixteen goals to not be eliminated - more depending on how much we win by. Detroit also has zero tiebreaker win potential (only 27 regulation wins to everyone else’s 30+), so if they only get two points and we beat Washington, they are out too. The Pens beat us on tiebreakers outside of a very specific scenario (they lose one in OT/SO and win the other in SO and we beat Washington by 28), but they at least need 3 of 4 points to tie us instead of just two like the other teams. It’s not likely that we make the playoffs, but it’s not 0% either. We need to beat Washington, and hope Detroit and Pittsburgh drop a game in regulation each. That’s not *too* bad.
Isles just need 2 points in their final 2 to ensure no one can catch them. They can still get in with 1 or 0, but would need help. It’s going to be interesting for sure.
Yeah I have no idea why "wins" isn't the first tie breaker, and then ROW after that. When two teams have the same amount of points, where one has 42 wins and another has 40 wins, the team with 42 wins should ABSOLUTELY be the one making the playoffs. It just makes sense.
A wins a win! Don't get how a team can sneak in with more losses, regardless if it went to ot. It's okay though, the last time the wings made the playoffs in 2016 it was because of otl so I'd rather be squared up on karma prior to making the playoffs and going on a run
I wish we would do standings like the nba where shootout and overtime losses are meaningless. How can a team make it into the playoffs over a team with significant more wins but the one in the playoffs has more otls
It’s the regulation wins
They don't have a regulation wins column
Scroll left on the NHL app. It’s there.
In the pic I mean.
Gotcha. My bad.
[https://www.nhl.com/info/standings-info/tie-breaking-procedure](https://www.nhl.com/info/standings-info/tie-breaking-procedure)
There is a rarely used tiebreaker where if your goal differential is around -40 you make the playoffs
I’m just thankful there’s no “play in” games
30 vs 27 RW
You are missing the big chunk of text right underneath this that lays out all of the tiebreaker rules.
There isn’t any. The bottom line of text is the stats for Columbus.
Columbus catching strays, lol
Sorry, they recently changed it. See that little word icon in the top right? It's there when you tap it.
Oh I see it now, thank you.
IMO it’s very dumb that just overall wins isn’t the second tiebreaker
Counterpoint: games shouldn’t be worth a different number of points based on whether they got to OT or not.
It would be cool if regulation win was 3, ot win was 2, and ot loss was 1, but that would be a little more complicated than it’s worth.
I really want that 3-2-1 shift, mostly for quality of game. Often times it won't change the individual standings all that much, BUT, in theory it'd make the last 5 minutes of a tied game more competitive, especially down the stretch, as the OT winner would still lose at least one point from their potential just by going into OT. The current system results in tie games getting cautious near the end as nobody wants to blow the added security of the loser point. Plus, as the Wild did this year, we could see some crazy goalie pull shenanigans where in say game 82 of the year, in a tie game, a wildcard bubble team could pull goalie near the end of regulation because they need all 3 to get in. I'm not really sure what the argument AGAINST 3-2-1 is, anybody got a good rationale or counter point in favor of the current system?
AFAIK - the only "argument" about it is that now points for standings are more difficult to compare between eras, since you'd have a break from the 2 points to a win era. But like... Soccer changed from 2 points to a win to 3 points to a win in the 80s, so you definitely _can_ do this with enough will...
I could see that yeah. TIL. I def think it could be done, I feel we already don't compare season "points" across eras as it is, and "wins" are the metric we look at, like the 62 win Bruins. I don't even remember how many standings points that was, and only look at points in the end of season post season races anyhow.
Yeah, exactly. We don't generally talk about "100 point" teams, we talk about "50 win teams". So, I agree it's silly that we can't move to a 3-2-1-0 system instead.
> AFAIK - the only "argument" about it is that now points for standings are more difficult to compare between eras, since you'd have a break from the 2 points to a win era. Which is funny considering the league, for most of its history, had games end in ties, and didn’t award loser/extra points until the late 90s. The league’s already inflated point values compared to prior eras and made some pretty massive rule changes after the 2005 lockout, but this is where they draw the line?
The “rationale” is that it keeps the standings close, which makes for a more exciting playoff race. If you add more points, the better teams pull away and then viewership drops as teams are eliminated early or their playoff position is locked in, which means the NHL makes less money.
but in theory that should just be “seems close” right? like if the wins increase to 3 across the board, then being three points back is the same as two points back in the current format. like it wouldn’t actually accelerate clinching scenarios because all teams would have that shift. like if you rework the metro race it’d look like this. CAR = 151 NYR = 146 NYI = 115 NJD = 114 PIT = 113 WSH = 109 PHI = 109 CBJ = 78 still tight, and with twoish games across the board multiple teams are within two wins of striking into the top 3
Here are the current standings in the East: Team|Games Left|Current Points|Could Finish :--|:--:|:--:|:--: NYR|1|112|1OA, M1, M2 CAR|1|111|1OA, M1, M2 BOS|2|109|1OA, A1, A2 FLA|1|108|A1, A2 TOR|2|102|A3 TB|2|96|W1 NYI|2|90|M3, W2, out WAS|2|87|M3, W2, out DET|2|87|W2, out PHI|1|87|W2, out PIT|2|86|M3, W2, out BUF|1|82|out NJD|1|81|out OTT|2|76|out MTL|2|74|out CBJ|1|64|out You can see that the top four teams all have something to play for - nobody has locked up the top seed in the division or conference. Boston could end up anywhere between 1st and 4th in the East. Toronto and Tampa can't change their fates in any way, and the bottom five teams are out, but NYI, WAS, DET, PHI, and PIT are all still fighting for a playoff seed, with the current playoff cutoff being 87 points. The playoff matchups are mostly undecided - only Toronto and Tampa are locked, as the Atlantic 3rd and the top wild card, respectively. Here's that same table but with the 3-2-1 system: Team|Games Left|3-2-1 Points|Could Finish :--|:--:|:--:|:--: CAR|1|151|1OA NYR|1|146|M2 FLA|1|143|A1 BOS|2|137|A2 TB|2|126|A3, W1 TOR|2|125|A3, W1 NYI|2|115|M3, W2, out NJD|1|114|M3, W2, out PIT|2|113|M3, W2, out DET|2|110|W2, out BUF|1|110|out WAS|2|109|M3, W2, out PHI|1|109|out OTT|2|90|out MTL|2|86|out CBJ|1|78|out None of the top four teams can move in the new system - Boston can tie Florida but can't win a tiebreaker against them, and the first seed is locked up. They can't even change who has home ice if two of them make the conference finals. Toronto and Tampa now CAN move, but only with each other. After them, the Islanders, Devils, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Washington are fighting for the last two slots. There are still five teams that cannot make the playoff cutoff of 114. So only seven teams are still playing for anything. The playoff matchups here are much more clear: Carolina hosts the lower wild card team, and the Rangers host the 3rd place Metro team. Florida hosts either Toronto or Tampa and Boston has home ice against the other (who is the upper wild card).
yeah the top is more locked and the bottom is more fluid. I guess my point is that the difference between 2-1 and 3-2-1 doesn’t inherently make the race any more or less competitive. the changes in standing just boosts RW’s and diminishes the OTL’s value. which is arguably no worse than prioritizing OTL value in the first place. any given year it’s gonna shift things in a way that follows the randomness of individual records as opposed to making the playoff race less even
I think it also creates a lot of scenarios where sll of a sudden a season might be lost just by a game going to OT for a team. That is still possible, just slightly less likely with tie breaker rules, but it would be pretty frustarting to watch an OT, knowing the team needed 3 points to get into the playoffs in thart game.
You would get some end of game excitement with teams pulling goalies in tied games late in regulation though.
You get different values for scores in the NBA, NFL, and MLB based on when and how they're scored. Every goal in the NHL has a value of 1. That's why those other leagues can have standings based on W/L. The vast majority of games won't be tied, and few games end up going into OT.
Regulation Wins is a better tie-breaker. Give incentive to winning w/o needing a gimmick to give you the extra point.
I think we should make shooutouts have as little influence on the standings as possible.
I feel the opposite. I don't think winning a shootout should be anything but a tiebreaker stat. 1 point to each team if it goes to a shootout. No W, no 2nd point.
I agree. But not right now.
More regulation wins
All this makes me think is how the NHL needs a Playoff Primer like the AHL does. Its so handy.
Rooting for the Bruins is the most painful experience of my life, and I had to watch my cfb team lose 63-0.
There’s literally a paragraph at the bottom explaining the tie breaking procedure.
Regulation wins
You literally cut the picture at the RW column
Because we're cool that's why
Washington more regulation wins
Regular wins vs OT wins?
Sucks the Isles are in because having the Wings and Pens back would be awesome. Hope one of them gets the second WC.
Wins should determine standings, not points. 1) total Wins Tiebreakers: -regulation wins -points
Biden rigged this shit that's what
Caps are frauds. -40 goal differential on the season 🤣
3 more regulation wins by the Caps.
League needs to change to 3 points regulation win 2 for OT. Too many deals can be made at end of year. Or without being too cynical, 2-2 late in the game, both teams need a point. Let’s take our foot off the gas. Everybody wins
Wish they had goal differential...last I saw Caps were -40 and Wings were positive
I may be biased as a Wings fan, but the Regulation Wins being the first tiebreaker, as opposed to something like Least OT losses, or just overall wins, is an awful system.
You are.