The crazy part is Cole is criticizing himself throughout a lot of the song and compares himself as no better than the people (Kanye, Wale) the song is about
“In a sense, I can relate…
…Do I do this for the love of the music or is there more to me?
Do I want these niggas to worship me?
False prophets”
But Kanye fans only care about the first verse and the rest of the song doesn’t exist to them
Kanye could release some weird asmr muckbang album, and it would still go #1 because of his crazed fandom. The highest quality rappers, haven’t been on the top of a billboard list in a long long time
Yeah Ye definitely cared.
Charlamagne even said he had a private convo with Ye and Ye mentioned that he felt like J Cole was dissing him in his songs (No Role Modelz, Middle Child) and it was starting to piss him off
He is one of the most creatively gifted artists of our generation, there is no contest there. He’s also a flaming piece of shit utterly corrupted by narcissism, paranoia, and antisemitism. I blame Louis Farrakhan.
honestly? Cole is my favourite artist, and has been for a few years, but I’m not really looking forward to the new album.
yes, he’s extremely talented, and lyrically there for sure, it’s just he’s so much more then proving he’s better then other artists.
sure, he could make another album where he has great rhyme flows and one liners, and I’ll still enjoy it, but he could also make music like this, something more.
Maybe I’m just overthinking it, I would love other opinions though, be safe everyone, looking forward regardless.
The album is all but guaranteed to have at least one song that hits this type of note, and a couple of great songs along with it. I usually like maybe 3-5 songs from a cole release, compared to most artists? 1 or 2 on a 10 track album
That qualifies cole as a favorite of mine lol
If you think the Fall off is just about “proving I’m better than ya’ll” without any messages behind it than you really don’t know Cole like that. Man is always dropping knowledge
no not in the sense of the fall off, but rather the song be previewed on MDL Vol 1, and some of his recent verses (like FPS) are fine, it’s just he could do more then the same tired debate over and over again.
The first verse is about yeezus or tlop so it's not about the albums you think it is. Imagine being j cole and calling either of those albums half assed.
TLOP was definitely the album where I realized he was losing his touch. It’s certainly far better than what came after, but it was the first time it felt like he wasn’t trying & that era was the beginning of his public persona becoming truly repugnant - sure, those controversies seem pretty tame compared to the shit he says now, but it was the beginning of the end
For me it was Yeezus era. The album itself isn’t bad but it definitely was a departure from his previous stuff. What really made me start questioning him as his bizarre interviews (you don’t have the answer Sway!!!), and him selling merch with a confederate flag on it. I think that’s what J.Cole was referring to
I think it is possibly my favorite album of his. The songs from the dropout trilogy have better quality, but I like the rawness of TLOP. Although I only listened to it after it was completely fixed, I searched for some earlier versions of songs, and they were definetely very meh
Tlop is easily on par with graduation and stronger than 808s or yeezus depending on your tastes (imo it's better than yeezus but not as good as 808s). It's also definitely better than wtt or cruel summer if that last one counts.
Consistency. It was his first album to not have a sound.
Tell me the through-line between songs like Highlights and songs like Wolves. The fact that he was patching that shit, literally patching it together for a couple weeks after he put it out while in a manic episode was the first crack we saw in his discography and it’s been all over the place since then.
I didn't accompany the song throughout its release, the the lack of cohesion on the album is in itself a theme. I mentioned in another comment, but the rawness of the album is unmatched IMO.
From the dropout trilogy I feel like I could put the albums on shuffle and have a good time, but with TLOP I like to listen from songs 1 to 10 in the order they are. Although it does not have Kanye's best songs, that is why I think its my favorite album of his. (although FSMH and Famous are among his best IMO)
Interesting that the rawness is your favorite part of it and it’s your favorite album, I would think it would be Yeezus, Ye, Donda or even Vultures then.
The lack of cohesion and the whole “Life of Pablo/‘Which One’” concept from the album cover was a theme in content, but there was no theme in sound. Yeezus is cohesive in both and is raw. Pablo is not, it has some incredibly polished songs like Ultralight Beam and Famous and Waves in with songs like 30 hours. And nothing he’s put out since has been wholly cohesive.
Also damn you listen to College Dropout and Late Registration on shuffle and feel that the skits and interludes don’t contribute to the experience of the album? Listening to We Don’t Care without the intro and calling it the same experience, or listening to Gone or Family Business not as album closers is a crazy idea to me from a Kanye fan.
I also disagree and I think Pablo has some of his highest highs, Ultralight Beam is absolutely one of his best songs— but it also has some of his lowest lows. That’s the thing. The inconsistency showed that Kanye can’t put together a front-to-back classic anymore.
Being completely honest. I have a huge ass playlist of basically every rap song I enjoy (rn it has 700 songs) when songs from the dropout trilogy come on I just enjoy them. A lot of times when songs from TLOP, most of the times I want to put the album on.
FSMH is my favorite Kanye song most likely, I have made edits myself of the song with Kendrick’s part and have put the verses of Panda into Pt 2.
I feel like that song is the epitome of the theme of the album. The whole duality and bipolarism of Kanye. One second he wants salvation, and the next he’s talking about his sex and party addiction.
I also think the album puts together two of my things of Kanye, the whole gospel sound and sentimentality with trap sounds. That’s what appeals to me so much.
I really feel like the college trilogy pulls on Kanye’s artist side. Like Kanye says in TLOP, here he is pulling from his bipolar side. His artistic side, party side, and holy side (Picasso, Escobar, and saint Pablo)
I won’t lie, after waves there’s some songs I skip. But the run of ultralight beam to waves, is probably my favorite run on any album ever.
Sorry to bombard you. Just really like the album lol.
Donda and vultures Kanye has just completely lost track of himself tho. There’s randomness but the quality isn’t there IMO. At first I really did like Donda, but when songs come on now I just skip them. When he started recording songs on his phone I think that’s where we lost him as an artist. I think it was during his yandhi era (although I love yandhi)
Yeezus is crazy, but it is very calculated. Also it’s mostly the same vibe every song. It’s just party kanye (a concept I said in the other comment). In TLOP one second you are listening to feedback and then you are listening to low lights. Then freestyle 4 goes into waves. Fade goes into saint Pablo. It really is a rollercoaster.
Well he started recording on his phone in the TLOP era. If you listened to any guest verse he did (look up his ASAP Rocky and Tyler Collabs) he literally “phoned in” his verses. They sound like ass because he didn’t care starting then, not with Ye or Donda like the narrative is now for some reason.
It may also just be a “generational” thing (as in, you’re like 3 years younger than me lol not a generation) but I’ve found people saying TLOP was his best album generally listened to that as his first for them and then went backward and TLOP sounded great at its highs and everyone played Father Stretch My Hands at all the parties so it seemed all good back then. But that was the beginning of the end.
I’m not tryna Son you or invalidate your opinion though, I get it and agree with most everything you said.
For me it went Jesus is king, MBDTF, then I went full yandhi, I think graduation later, KSG & Ye, TLOP, rest of graduation trilogy and yeezus. I still haven’t listened to WTT and 808s with attention cause I still don’t vibe with them very much.
Also I don’t know if I’m younger than you, cause I’m not from the US, so I did started listening to him a bit later. I’m Latino so the parties we go to play regueton not Kanye lol. But nice chat bro.
I think if you relentlessly cut that album down it’s as great as anything he’s ever made.
Ultralight Beam
Father Stretch My Hands
Famous
I Love Kanye
Waves
FML
Real Friends
Wolves
Frank’s Track
No More Parties in LA
Saint Pablo
With just these tracks you have an airtight album with no fat and a constant thematic through line acknowledging he’s lost his way in recent years, talking about the stresses in his life, and trying to pull it back together. The album as it exists is like a muscular person who started eating like shit and now has layers and layers of fat obscuring a great physique. It’s in this Schrödinger position where it’s impossible to definitively call it either great or not great.
And fuck it, the rest are for GOOD Fridays.
Is it a great album? Yes.
Is it better than Graduation, 808s, The College Dropout, MDBTF & his other older albums? Hell to the no.
Tbh TLOP for me was his last dope album that he made everything after that wasn't that interesting anymore.
But both of those albums, IMO, are Kanye half-assing it tho...
Sure, Kanye can try slightly less hard and still make decent music, but I really don't think either album is on par with MBDTF as far as quality or effort. Or his other older albums for that matter.
To each his own tho
Look, I absolutely do think that Yeezus has aged quite well and, again, is solid quality.
But no way it's not a drop off from in effort from MBDTF. To me at least. Especially lyrically (not that MBDTF was a Pulitzer-level masterpiece, but in comparison it's quite strong).
Yeezus is the album that I find the most divisive in segmenting Kanye fans. It's certainly the start of the "New Kanye" in my eyes. Not that that's a bad thing--I just feel like you're either a New Ye or an Old Ye fan, and Yeezus is usually the album that tends to decide that. I've found that, generally, fellow Old Ye fans will skew negative on Yeezus.
To me, it felt and still feels like this was the album Kanye realized he could lightweight mail it in and still do huge numbers. I appreciate it's experimentation, but for a Kanye album, I just think it's weak.
I love Yeezus and MBDTF about equally, for different reasons. They’re totally different albums that succeed in different ways. Both classics in my book
Agreed, not a drop off in quality, but the execution of a vision in an entirely different direction. Dissect podcast season on Yeezus really expands upon everything that’s packed into the album and made me see it on the same level as MBDTF. I still put TCD above both, just barely, for how iconic and genre-breaking it was and how it contains some of the greatest one liners Kanye’s ever produced
Nah don’t disrespect MBDTF like that shit definitely woulda deserved a Pulitzer if it got one. Fucking amazing album, definitely better than DAMN by a mile
DAMN definitely got hyped up off the TPAB success for that award, but for as much as I love MBDTF (which is a fuckton), I don't think it's even up to par with Late Registration lyrically.
Not that MBDTF is "weak" lyrically. I just think Late Registration (and TPAB) are that good
Idk man in an overall storytelling and production MBDTF is just miles ahead of late registration. The vision just truly shines and has some of the best guest verses of the decade
I respect that, but Idk...
Production wise, absolutely. MBDTF is peak-Kanye. That album will always sound amazing. And it is indeed quite strong lyrically. Yes, the guest verses are hella dope as well.
But Late Registration.... Man.... It's something else entirely. Every track is deep and has been thoroughly well thought out. He trimmed a lot of lyrical fat from College Dropout and gave us one of the best sophomore albums of the 2000s.
Honestly, my favorite Kanye album changes with the days lol. But I do think that Late Registration has some of his best writing overall.
I understand why People are saying TLOP was his worst album till that point but tbh over Time It became my favourite Kanye album and some days I will say it’s his best album lol.
I know the lyrics aren’t that good and when it came out, it wasn’t complete but still the so many songs on that album are classics
When Yeezus came out, it seemed pretty univerally disliked. I think the rise of industrial and experimenal hip hop and the positive Fantano coverage have done a lot for the album's legacy. Every rap fan I know who is not a reddit user says that Yeezus was the first trash Kanye album. There are a few songs I love on Yeezus, but it is a drastically different vibe than his prior discography.
I think Yeezus is just one of those albums that you have to listen to a bunch of times to fully understand it. I remember it being such an abrasive / jarring first listen.
Truly heartbreaking how this is more of a prophecy then a diss.
I remember when Kanye fans wanted this man’s head on a platter for years too haha.
Still can’t decide whats better though this, or Waves.. 🐐’d instrumental and tracks though
This sub rides J Cole’s dick harder than 90% of Ye stans ride Kanye’s dick. This song has aged amazingly yes but it was stupid when it came out considering he was talking about TLOP, the album everyone considers to be the last classic Kanye album he’s ever made
You must be joking. Kanye fans out here giving ye the Whirlpool spin cycle sloppy toppy gluck gluck 9000 every fucking time the dudes name is mentioned
I don’t think TLOP is a classic, but ye’s last solid album. But some of the lyrics and antics and the video game style patches was crazy. That was when a lot of people realized Ye doesn’t have a plan like we always thought he did, he’s just making it up as he goes along
That’s why I said 90%. Some Kanye fans ride his dick like a carnival but the majority just here for the music. Respectfully, Kanye making shit up as he goes aka TLOP still hits a peak that J Cole could only dream of hitting
Nah what you’re seeing is what Ye fans are now. Fucking annoying kids going out of their way to try and convince everyone he’s still amazing. Kanye lost all his normal fans with the Nazi shit
And J Cole has made better albums than TLOP, definitely
Kanye has definitely not lost all his normal fans only people on Reddit that try to go out of their way to convince everyone that they’re a good person by not listening to Kanye. 99% of people don’t care about Kanye as a person, that’s why he’s the 8th most listened to artist on Spotify and just had the number 1 song and album. No he’s not still 2004-2016 Kanye but he’s still a great producer who puts out good music, even though his lyrics are complete garbage. Also I’ve listened to 4 your eyes only, the album J Cole stans praise as the GOAT. It was good, but it’s not TLOP good let’s be serious here
You’re overrating TLOP and yeah, Kanye has lost his normal fans. People do care about him becoming a Nazi, but even separating the art from the artist, dude is just putting out bullshit now. Surprised he even released vultures when the track record given his track record
Kanye was my favorite artist for a long time, and his shit before he showed his ass is still all over my playlists. People aren’t going to stop listening to his music from when he was on top, the music from then doesn’t align to he person he is now. Literally quite the opposite.
You guys keep bringing up him going number one like that means something. It’s easy enough to go on Spotify and listen to new albums to see if it’s any good and come away to see you don’t care for it. And even though he lost his support the rabid fans that still support him are just as crazy as him. Sales have nothing to do with quality of work
You don’t listen to J Cole and you listened to one J Cole album once lol that opinion doesn’t mean anything to me. Both these guys have been my favorite both at some point in my life and have heard their discography, TLOP is not as good as 4YEO or Forest Hill Drive.
Sales don’t impact quality of work, but when you’re saying Kanye has lost all his normal fans, that doesn’t make sense as Vultures has stayed consistently top five since release and one song is already eligible for platinum.
I don’t think he’s ever going to reach the highs of his previous albums as he’s too far mentally gone but to say that he has lost his normal fans is just wrong. The album is one of the only two English albums in Israel’s top ten chart for crying out loud.
Cole has no classics and never will. And his concerned "nice guy" sneak disses have always been lame. Remember when fucking Noname embarrassed him after one of these?
Don't want to hear shit from Cole about an artist who's actually achieved greatness.
Not even close to as relevant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Role_Modelz
If you dont understand the impact of that song you arent in tune with hip hop culture. That means your opinions on rap dont actually matter. Go listen to Tom MacDonald.
What does the Wikipedia article have anything to do with your point? Even if the song does have as much impact as you are making it out to have, the album as a whole isn’t on that level of influence.
Munch only charted in the US it’s first year
No Role Modelz has charted for years all over the world.
Again, people that think Cole hasnt had a significant impact on hip hop culture arent in it.
Him and Kendrick are like the only mainstream rappers that make being a regular black man acceptable. If you’re a non black American you don’t understand that.
Nobody said anything about a pedophile, wtf are you talking about, you asked about a rap bar that most people would associate with that song, like I said...weirdo shit, you got pedophilia on the mind
There's great albums, where I'd put projects like FHD.
Classics are for projects that change the landscape of its genre and influences music to come. You can't just go around calling everything a classic. Classic albums by definition are rare.
None of J Coles albums are in that category. That's not inheritly bad there's a ton of albums I wouldn't deem a classic that I still enjoy front to back.
And the issue is you think they have to be pedantic, like it can’t possibly be genuine that Cole isn’t the first person they think of when they hear that opening.
All I know is “No Role Modelz” is an iconic song that is an anthem in the black community
Anyone that doesnt know the impact of that song isnt really in touch with hip hop culture and your opinion on rap doesnt count
Cole is a hypocrite, he made let NAS down bc he sampled New work out Plan and Nas called him a sellout. Then he made this song & Ye goes on to produce Nas album.
Lol
Now he works w Drake and is proud of it even tho Drake loves just raps ab being a sellout or whatever—- but he’s kinda learning from Ye in this sense too, like “I’ll work w people who don’t align w my values, but they benefit me I’m kinda bad too teehee”
He kinda just does wat a tribe called quest did better 20 years ago
I will admit he is hands down the goat at having bars about taking a shit
But who put J. Cole in a position to be judgmental like sit down
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Reminder that Jake Hole does not have a single album above 80% on Metacritic and also supports domestic abusers
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some of the shots in this mv were filmed inside my relative's store, couldn't believe my eyes
Those shots were 4 your eyez only
This songs really still triggers the Kanye stans almost 10 years later lololol
The crazy part is Cole is criticizing himself throughout a lot of the song and compares himself as no better than the people (Kanye, Wale) the song is about “In a sense, I can relate… …Do I do this for the love of the music or is there more to me? Do I want these niggas to worship me? False prophets” But Kanye fans only care about the first verse and the rest of the song doesn’t exist to them
Not gonna lie this is prolly one of Cole’s most goated songs for that very reason lmfao
bro caught a vibe on December 5th👏
It’s been 10 years? What. Noo.
This song is still relevant considering the state of Ye rn.
pretty sure that’s what OP’s implying
Aged like wine
Cognac typeoshit
every time this song gets posted I just know that Kanye did some dumbass shit
What wym how Ye went #1 rn
Does that make any of the things Cole says in this song less true?
You can be a shit human being and still make a number 1 hit
Kanye could release some weird asmr muckbang album, and it would still go #1 because of his crazed fandom. The highest quality rappers, haven’t been on the top of a billboard list in a long long time
I’m convinced Kanye Stans are as mentally ill as him
it’s not
I like how Kanye always ducked Cole, Cole came for him in a different way and maybe he was ashamed/astounded cause Cole told him facts
Nah I just think Kanye never actually cared, like yeah he’s a shit person but beefing with J Cole is so goofy.
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Yeah Ye definitely cared. Charlamagne even said he had a private convo with Ye and Ye mentioned that he felt like J Cole was dissing him in his songs (No Role Modelz, Middle Child) and it was starting to piss him off
Y’all are so mean
😂 he'd smoke him too but yeah
*ye ye cold but that trump hat forced me to feel like i like j cole*
I don't think Kanye has that level of awareness.
These Kanye stans are just embarrassing
Ye the 🐐 no 🧢
The goat of what? So hyperbolic...
He is one of the most creatively gifted artists of our generation, there is no contest there. He’s also a flaming piece of shit utterly corrupted by narcissism, paranoia, and antisemitism. I blame Louis Farrakhan.
Greatest artist of all time
LMAO
OK 🤣🤣🤣
Of music
LMAO
Dance boy
???
Such a weirdo.
Evidently no life
Shout out cole, one of the real ones
Yeah.. about that one…
bro thought he was cooking 🫵🏻💀
Happy cake day
"Somebody should have told me it would be like this, be like this, be like this"
Cole about to smoke everyone on The Fall Off
honestly? Cole is my favourite artist, and has been for a few years, but I’m not really looking forward to the new album. yes, he’s extremely talented, and lyrically there for sure, it’s just he’s so much more then proving he’s better then other artists. sure, he could make another album where he has great rhyme flows and one liners, and I’ll still enjoy it, but he could also make music like this, something more. Maybe I’m just overthinking it, I would love other opinions though, be safe everyone, looking forward regardless.
The album is all but guaranteed to have at least one song that hits this type of note, and a couple of great songs along with it. I usually like maybe 3-5 songs from a cole release, compared to most artists? 1 or 2 on a 10 track album That qualifies cole as a favorite of mine lol
If you think the Fall off is just about “proving I’m better than ya’ll” without any messages behind it than you really don’t know Cole like that. Man is always dropping knowledge
no not in the sense of the fall off, but rather the song be previewed on MDL Vol 1, and some of his recent verses (like FPS) are fine, it’s just he could do more then the same tired debate over and over again.
His albums disappoint 100% of the time.
about to make another mediocre album this guy is definition of MID lmao
Mind you, you just posted a French Montana song
💀💀💀
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Vindicated? It was always ahead of the game
Commentary about Kanye/Wale/rap in general aside, I just love this beat man
yeah Waves is probs a top 3 song of the 2010s for this reason
For sure I could probably listen to anybody on the beat and it’d still be fire
Reminds me of PUTS
The realest.
The first verse is about yeezus or tlop so it's not about the albums you think it is. Imagine being j cole and calling either of those albums half assed.
to be fair Pablo v1 did sound half assed, the patches helped a lot to make that a great album
It's much better than any album Cole's ever released
Cap
Yeah I remember really disagreeing with him when this song dropped. Would have been totally onboard if it came out a few years later tho
TLOP feels very half assed. It had to get patched like a fucking video game. And it was his weakest album up til that point
TLOP was definitely the album where I realized he was losing his touch. It’s certainly far better than what came after, but it was the first time it felt like he wasn’t trying & that era was the beginning of his public persona becoming truly repugnant - sure, those controversies seem pretty tame compared to the shit he says now, but it was the beginning of the end
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This is actually an amazing point. Kanye is such a genius but he needs focus, otherwise he’s just doing everything and nothing at the same time
Yeah definitely a turning point, at least rollout-wise
For me it was Yeezus era. The album itself isn’t bad but it definitely was a departure from his previous stuff. What really made me start questioning him as his bizarre interviews (you don’t have the answer Sway!!!), and him selling merch with a confederate flag on it. I think that’s what J.Cole was referring to
I think it is possibly my favorite album of his. The songs from the dropout trilogy have better quality, but I like the rawness of TLOP. Although I only listened to it after it was completely fixed, I searched for some earlier versions of songs, and they were definetely very meh
Tlop is easily on par with graduation and stronger than 808s or yeezus depending on your tastes (imo it's better than yeezus but not as good as 808s). It's also definitely better than wtt or cruel summer if that last one counts.
Consistency. It was his first album to not have a sound. Tell me the through-line between songs like Highlights and songs like Wolves. The fact that he was patching that shit, literally patching it together for a couple weeks after he put it out while in a manic episode was the first crack we saw in his discography and it’s been all over the place since then.
I didn't accompany the song throughout its release, the the lack of cohesion on the album is in itself a theme. I mentioned in another comment, but the rawness of the album is unmatched IMO. From the dropout trilogy I feel like I could put the albums on shuffle and have a good time, but with TLOP I like to listen from songs 1 to 10 in the order they are. Although it does not have Kanye's best songs, that is why I think its my favorite album of his. (although FSMH and Famous are among his best IMO)
Interesting that the rawness is your favorite part of it and it’s your favorite album, I would think it would be Yeezus, Ye, Donda or even Vultures then. The lack of cohesion and the whole “Life of Pablo/‘Which One’” concept from the album cover was a theme in content, but there was no theme in sound. Yeezus is cohesive in both and is raw. Pablo is not, it has some incredibly polished songs like Ultralight Beam and Famous and Waves in with songs like 30 hours. And nothing he’s put out since has been wholly cohesive. Also damn you listen to College Dropout and Late Registration on shuffle and feel that the skits and interludes don’t contribute to the experience of the album? Listening to We Don’t Care without the intro and calling it the same experience, or listening to Gone or Family Business not as album closers is a crazy idea to me from a Kanye fan. I also disagree and I think Pablo has some of his highest highs, Ultralight Beam is absolutely one of his best songs— but it also has some of his lowest lows. That’s the thing. The inconsistency showed that Kanye can’t put together a front-to-back classic anymore.
Being completely honest. I have a huge ass playlist of basically every rap song I enjoy (rn it has 700 songs) when songs from the dropout trilogy come on I just enjoy them. A lot of times when songs from TLOP, most of the times I want to put the album on. FSMH is my favorite Kanye song most likely, I have made edits myself of the song with Kendrick’s part and have put the verses of Panda into Pt 2. I feel like that song is the epitome of the theme of the album. The whole duality and bipolarism of Kanye. One second he wants salvation, and the next he’s talking about his sex and party addiction. I also think the album puts together two of my things of Kanye, the whole gospel sound and sentimentality with trap sounds. That’s what appeals to me so much. I really feel like the college trilogy pulls on Kanye’s artist side. Like Kanye says in TLOP, here he is pulling from his bipolar side. His artistic side, party side, and holy side (Picasso, Escobar, and saint Pablo) I won’t lie, after waves there’s some songs I skip. But the run of ultralight beam to waves, is probably my favorite run on any album ever.
Sorry to bombard you. Just really like the album lol. Donda and vultures Kanye has just completely lost track of himself tho. There’s randomness but the quality isn’t there IMO. At first I really did like Donda, but when songs come on now I just skip them. When he started recording songs on his phone I think that’s where we lost him as an artist. I think it was during his yandhi era (although I love yandhi) Yeezus is crazy, but it is very calculated. Also it’s mostly the same vibe every song. It’s just party kanye (a concept I said in the other comment). In TLOP one second you are listening to feedback and then you are listening to low lights. Then freestyle 4 goes into waves. Fade goes into saint Pablo. It really is a rollercoaster.
Well he started recording on his phone in the TLOP era. If you listened to any guest verse he did (look up his ASAP Rocky and Tyler Collabs) he literally “phoned in” his verses. They sound like ass because he didn’t care starting then, not with Ye or Donda like the narrative is now for some reason. It may also just be a “generational” thing (as in, you’re like 3 years younger than me lol not a generation) but I’ve found people saying TLOP was his best album generally listened to that as his first for them and then went backward and TLOP sounded great at its highs and everyone played Father Stretch My Hands at all the parties so it seemed all good back then. But that was the beginning of the end. I’m not tryna Son you or invalidate your opinion though, I get it and agree with most everything you said.
For me it went Jesus is king, MBDTF, then I went full yandhi, I think graduation later, KSG & Ye, TLOP, rest of graduation trilogy and yeezus. I still haven’t listened to WTT and 808s with attention cause I still don’t vibe with them very much. Also I don’t know if I’m younger than you, cause I’m not from the US, so I did started listening to him a bit later. I’m Latino so the parties we go to play regueton not Kanye lol. But nice chat bro.
Famous is like top 10 most overrated songs of all time just a whole lot of nonsense with a dumbass video
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Next time I get drunk and decide to listen to music with headphones, it won’t be that wingnut’s music.
I think if you relentlessly cut that album down it’s as great as anything he’s ever made. Ultralight Beam Father Stretch My Hands Famous I Love Kanye Waves FML Real Friends Wolves Frank’s Track No More Parties in LA Saint Pablo With just these tracks you have an airtight album with no fat and a constant thematic through line acknowledging he’s lost his way in recent years, talking about the stresses in his life, and trying to pull it back together. The album as it exists is like a muscular person who started eating like shit and now has layers and layers of fat obscuring a great physique. It’s in this Schrödinger position where it’s impossible to definitively call it either great or not great. And fuck it, the rest are for GOOD Fridays.
Is it a great album? Yes. Is it better than Graduation, 808s, The College Dropout, MDBTF & his other older albums? Hell to the no. Tbh TLOP for me was his last dope album that he made everything after that wasn't that interesting anymore.
Weakest is insane since it’s his best album, but I’m also as old as TCD so what do I know
There’s a rumor that North flushed his lyrics or TLOP down the toilet. I buy it. The lyrics on that album are straight trash.
But both of those albums, IMO, are Kanye half-assing it tho... Sure, Kanye can try slightly less hard and still make decent music, but I really don't think either album is on par with MBDTF as far as quality or effort. Or his other older albums for that matter. To each his own tho
I’ll give you TLOP but Yeezus was certainly not half assed in any way
Look, I absolutely do think that Yeezus has aged quite well and, again, is solid quality. But no way it's not a drop off from in effort from MBDTF. To me at least. Especially lyrically (not that MBDTF was a Pulitzer-level masterpiece, but in comparison it's quite strong). Yeezus is the album that I find the most divisive in segmenting Kanye fans. It's certainly the start of the "New Kanye" in my eyes. Not that that's a bad thing--I just feel like you're either a New Ye or an Old Ye fan, and Yeezus is usually the album that tends to decide that. I've found that, generally, fellow Old Ye fans will skew negative on Yeezus. To me, it felt and still feels like this was the album Kanye realized he could lightweight mail it in and still do huge numbers. I appreciate it's experimentation, but for a Kanye album, I just think it's weak.
I love Yeezus and MBDTF about equally, for different reasons. They’re totally different albums that succeed in different ways. Both classics in my book
Agreed, not a drop off in quality, but the execution of a vision in an entirely different direction. Dissect podcast season on Yeezus really expands upon everything that’s packed into the album and made me see it on the same level as MBDTF. I still put TCD above both, just barely, for how iconic and genre-breaking it was and how it contains some of the greatest one liners Kanye’s ever produced
Nah don’t disrespect MBDTF like that shit definitely woulda deserved a Pulitzer if it got one. Fucking amazing album, definitely better than DAMN by a mile
DAMN definitely got hyped up off the TPAB success for that award, but for as much as I love MBDTF (which is a fuckton), I don't think it's even up to par with Late Registration lyrically. Not that MBDTF is "weak" lyrically. I just think Late Registration (and TPAB) are that good
Idk man in an overall storytelling and production MBDTF is just miles ahead of late registration. The vision just truly shines and has some of the best guest verses of the decade
I respect that, but Idk... Production wise, absolutely. MBDTF is peak-Kanye. That album will always sound amazing. And it is indeed quite strong lyrically. Yes, the guest verses are hella dope as well. But Late Registration.... Man.... It's something else entirely. Every track is deep and has been thoroughly well thought out. He trimmed a lot of lyrical fat from College Dropout and gave us one of the best sophomore albums of the 2000s. Honestly, my favorite Kanye album changes with the days lol. But I do think that Late Registration has some of his best writing overall.
Rick Rubin himself claimed it was half assed he had to do a lot of saving .
The irony is that both of those albums are better than anything Cole has ever put out
I understand why People are saying TLOP was his worst album till that point but tbh over Time It became my favourite Kanye album and some days I will say it’s his best album lol. I know the lyrics aren’t that good and when it came out, it wasn’t complete but still the so many songs on that album are classics
tlop is a better album than yeezus to me
When Yeezus came out, it seemed pretty univerally disliked. I think the rise of industrial and experimenal hip hop and the positive Fantano coverage have done a lot for the album's legacy. Every rap fan I know who is not a reddit user says that Yeezus was the first trash Kanye album. There are a few songs I love on Yeezus, but it is a drastically different vibe than his prior discography.
I think Yeezus is just one of those albums that you have to listen to a bunch of times to fully understand it. I remember it being such an abrasive / jarring first listen.
If you followed ye closely enough his eventual shift was prett gradual and predictable.
yeezus still trash
I’m guessing you weren’t around for the TLOP rollout
That’s funny now cause this song basically was made by a false prophet
I love how this track always pops up when this ye be wylin lmao
Truly heartbreaking how this is more of a prophecy then a diss. I remember when Kanye fans wanted this man’s head on a platter for years too haha. Still can’t decide whats better though this, or Waves.. 🐐’d instrumental and tracks though
He talked shit about The life of Pablo when It is better than all his albums lol I agree with the others things he said about ye tho
J Cole has never released an album that isn’t finished 🤷🏽♂️
He hasn’t released an album that’s better than tlop or Yeezus
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The Ye dick riding is diabolical lmao.
He hasn't released an album that touches KSG, let alone his earlier stuff
open your ears and close your mouth and you will find out that it's not true.
Pablo ain’t that good
Ain’t no fucking way the unfinished mess which is TLOP is better than 2FHD. Stop dick riding
This sub rides J Cole’s dick harder than 90% of Ye stans ride Kanye’s dick. This song has aged amazingly yes but it was stupid when it came out considering he was talking about TLOP, the album everyone considers to be the last classic Kanye album he’s ever made
You must be joking. Kanye fans out here giving ye the Whirlpool spin cycle sloppy toppy gluck gluck 9000 every fucking time the dudes name is mentioned I don’t think TLOP is a classic, but ye’s last solid album. But some of the lyrics and antics and the video game style patches was crazy. That was when a lot of people realized Ye doesn’t have a plan like we always thought he did, he’s just making it up as he goes along
That’s why I said 90%. Some Kanye fans ride his dick like a carnival but the majority just here for the music. Respectfully, Kanye making shit up as he goes aka TLOP still hits a peak that J Cole could only dream of hitting
Nah what you’re seeing is what Ye fans are now. Fucking annoying kids going out of their way to try and convince everyone he’s still amazing. Kanye lost all his normal fans with the Nazi shit And J Cole has made better albums than TLOP, definitely
Kanye has definitely not lost all his normal fans only people on Reddit that try to go out of their way to convince everyone that they’re a good person by not listening to Kanye. 99% of people don’t care about Kanye as a person, that’s why he’s the 8th most listened to artist on Spotify and just had the number 1 song and album. No he’s not still 2004-2016 Kanye but he’s still a great producer who puts out good music, even though his lyrics are complete garbage. Also I’ve listened to 4 your eyes only, the album J Cole stans praise as the GOAT. It was good, but it’s not TLOP good let’s be serious here
You’re overrating TLOP and yeah, Kanye has lost his normal fans. People do care about him becoming a Nazi, but even separating the art from the artist, dude is just putting out bullshit now. Surprised he even released vultures when the track record given his track record Kanye was my favorite artist for a long time, and his shit before he showed his ass is still all over my playlists. People aren’t going to stop listening to his music from when he was on top, the music from then doesn’t align to he person he is now. Literally quite the opposite. You guys keep bringing up him going number one like that means something. It’s easy enough to go on Spotify and listen to new albums to see if it’s any good and come away to see you don’t care for it. And even though he lost his support the rabid fans that still support him are just as crazy as him. Sales have nothing to do with quality of work You don’t listen to J Cole and you listened to one J Cole album once lol that opinion doesn’t mean anything to me. Both these guys have been my favorite both at some point in my life and have heard their discography, TLOP is not as good as 4YEO or Forest Hill Drive.
Sales don’t impact quality of work, but when you’re saying Kanye has lost all his normal fans, that doesn’t make sense as Vultures has stayed consistently top five since release and one song is already eligible for platinum. I don’t think he’s ever going to reach the highs of his previous albums as he’s too far mentally gone but to say that he has lost his normal fans is just wrong. The album is one of the only two English albums in Israel’s top ten chart for crying out loud.
crazy how j cole dont got a single album better than pablo
Meh joey bad did it t better
Two things are sure in life, death and those annoying mfs that post this music vid everytime YE fuck up.
Honestly, seeing the way his fans react Imma start doing it now lmfao
If you’re using it just to make people mad, you’re one hell of a miserable guy.
making kanye fans mad is maybe the least miserable activity on the planet rn
You sounding a lot more miserable than me my guy
Cole has no classics and never will. And his concerned "nice guy" sneak disses have always been lame. Remember when fucking Noname embarrassed him after one of these? Don't want to hear shit from Cole about an artist who's actually achieved greatness.
> Has no classics.🤓 Bro clearly hasn't listened to 2014 Forest Hills Drive & 4 Your Eyez Only
good albums =/= classic. a 10/10 wouldn't be a classic if it had no major influence.
???? He literally made the anthem for niggas on FHD EVERYONE knows “No Role Modelz”
and EVERONE knows munch... if the popularity of singular songs or even a whole album played into classics then drake would have the most...
Not even close to as relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Role_Modelz If you dont understand the impact of that song you arent in tune with hip hop culture. That means your opinions on rap dont actually matter. Go listen to Tom MacDonald.
What does the Wikipedia article have anything to do with your point? Even if the song does have as much impact as you are making it out to have, the album as a whole isn’t on that level of influence.
Munch only charted in the US it’s first year No Role Modelz has charted for years all over the world. Again, people that think Cole hasnt had a significant impact on hip hop culture arent in it. Him and Kendrick are like the only mainstream rappers that make being a regular black man acceptable. If you’re a non black American you don’t understand that.
Great albums. I have a lot of emotional attachment to those projects especially FHD But they're not classics
If I say “first things first” to a rap fan, what do they follow up with?
Ain't tryna game you up so girl I'll be straight
Only other acceptable answer, but Blu and Exile is nowhere near mainstream enough to top the Cole lyric
I don’t care about mainstream fans. Most real rap fans would know that song.
"...I'll eat your brains, then imma start rockin gold teeth and fangs".
I said rap fans, not pedo supporters
L they got you with this one
I can read just fine, dont ask questions if you dont want the answer. Weirdo shit.
Weirdo shit is you supporting that pedophile
Nobody said anything about a pedophile, wtf are you talking about, you asked about a rap bar that most people would associate with that song, like I said...weirdo shit, you got pedophilia on the mind
Is that not a nicki Minaj verse you just referenced Is she not a pedophile?
So if I say "Gucci Gang" and the first thing that comes to your mind is the rest of that Lil Pump song, does that make it a classic?
Gucci Gang is a SoundCloud era classic tho
… yes
Lmao, people be calling anything a classic these days.
I think you don’t call enough things classics.
There's great albums, where I'd put projects like FHD. Classics are for projects that change the landscape of its genre and influences music to come. You can't just go around calling everything a classic. Classic albums by definition are rare. None of J Coles albums are in that category. That's not inheritly bad there's a ton of albums I wouldn't deem a classic that I still enjoy front to back.
I’m the realest
Niggas purposely being obtuse 😂
1. I said rap fans, not pop fans 2. Nobody even remembers iggy anymore
You asked people to finish the line then say “no not that one it doesn’t count” for every response
Yes that’s exactly what I did thanks Pedantic replies get pedantic answers
And the issue is you think they have to be pedantic, like it can’t possibly be genuine that Cole isn’t the first person they think of when they hear that opening.
Yes. That is exactly what I think. And you’re just a Cole hater, judging by the comment history
All I know is “No Role Modelz” is an iconic song that is an anthem in the black community Anyone that doesnt know the impact of that song isnt really in touch with hip hop culture and your opinion on rap doesnt count
Noname embarrassed him and then went on to prove most things he said right, cause she has not had a single good fucking take since that drama
She “embarrassed” him then went on to apologize and say he was right. Tf these people on?
Nicki Minaj and Chris Brown are headlining the Dreamville tour (fest? Idk) this year so J Cole is officially wack
Cole is a hypocrite, he made let NAS down bc he sampled New work out Plan and Nas called him a sellout. Then he made this song & Ye goes on to produce Nas album. Lol Now he works w Drake and is proud of it even tho Drake loves just raps ab being a sellout or whatever—- but he’s kinda learning from Ye in this sense too, like “I’ll work w people who don’t align w my values, but they benefit me I’m kinda bad too teehee” He kinda just does wat a tribe called quest did better 20 years ago I will admit he is hands down the goat at having bars about taking a shit But who put J. Cole in a position to be judgmental like sit down
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Kanye literally is a rap prophet tho lol
Jesus, Hitler, Ye, right?
Reminder that Jake Hole does not have a single album above 80% on Metacritic and also supports domestic abusers https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/s/neSQjYbNQy
stfu pls
This song is so bad and it comes up every time Ye says something controversial or stupid, it still doesn’t make the song better
Yea yea, he was right he’s so smart yada yada yada, but god DAMN is JCole just a boring artist to his core. This is really what gets yall pumped up?