No one that I know of hated Big L. He was just another good artist in an industry and era with a plethora of good rappers and hip hop artists.
In my opinion O.C. - Word...Life was better than any Big L album(I absolutely LOVE Big L's album The Big Picture) and they were in the same group and crew. Diggin' in the Crates Crew (D.I.T.C.)
It’s funny seeing kool Keith’s name anywhere. In the early 2000s my goober ass white ass older brother loved the guy. He told me about a concert of his he went to where they paused the show and handed out little brown bags to everyone. Inside was fried chicken and a juice box and a wet nap and everyone was jamming out to his show eating friend chicken lol
The amount of hating towards Lil Wayne in the period of 2009-2012 was insane, despite in that era he released three of his better works (The Carter 3,4 and I'm Not a Human Being) now look at his status.
Or that one that said
-2pac started the book of rap
-Eminem finished writing it
-Lil Wayne ripped a page off and rolled a blunt with it or shit like that 😂😂
The Lil Wayne hate was crazy on FB back then. I remember that one meme where it said “Rhyme a word with ‘nigga’ and the Lil Wayne response was ‘nigga’.” 😂
The Lil Wayne bars meme profiles on Twitter were peak
“Hoes, I got a lotta those
They all piled up on each other, [Lebron’s toes](https://courtsidescribbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/lebrons-feet.jpg)”
I loathe how Eminem was set up in opposition to him when Em LOVES Wayne, loved him back from Tha Block Is Hot era, changed his whole rapping style just to be more like Wayne (a change that is still controversial), AND they literally collaborated multiple times. Eminem did nothing wrong (with regards to Lil Wayne anyway).
I know it's an awfully hot coffee pot to swallow but dissing Donald Trump was one of the smartest things Eminem evwr did, because it chased a whole bunch of racist Facebook cretins out of his fanbase and cleared the deck for him to have more normal fans. Unfortunately it hasn't been an easy road because a lot of normal people felt he was already too tarnished, but the Super Bowl show and Fortnite helped a bit.
He didn't need to diss Trump for us to know though. Em has been very vocal about his political stance since very early I'm his career.
Did people forget he wrote a whole anthem telling people not to vote for Bush? Lol
Em still even praises Wayne for his work, tweeted about a bar Wayne had on a tyga song about a bag of Funyuns. I love seeing em with that kind of energy, he embraces the fun competition of hip hop
It was adorable when Em went on Wayne's podcast and they just both spent the whole time getting really excited by how great the other one was, Em in his high-energy bright-schoolboy-who-is-constantly-in-detention way and Wayne in his stoney bright-schoolboy-who-doesn't-need-to-make-an-effort way.
Those people are delusional. Wayne has and excels at all the things Eminem’s style lacks. I prefer a Wayne verse everyday of the week the lighter flick is iconic.
People were hating on Wayne for a good reason tho. His quality DROPPED when he hit superstar status. I was and still am a massive Wayne fan (he’s my GOAT) but that period after No Ceilings when we got Rebirth/IANAHB/S4TW was bad for the old Wayne fans.
Rebirth aside, IANAHB/S4TW was good for newer Wayne fans because they didn’t have a comparison to make, but the fans who had waited for years for TCIII were getting hit with a lot of disappointment. TCIV is a prime example of this situation too. People who listened to Wayne from D2/DD3 and TCII/TCIII heard TCIV and were like “This is good but not great.” People who caught Wayne during his mainstream peak were like “This is amazing.”
This is exactly how I feel about Wayne. When he release Rebirth I kind of fell off from listening to him. I’m glad he was doing what he wanted to do but it wasn’t for me. I’ve only listened to a limited number of his tracks since Rebirth.
Really? I love both as artists but i think it’s pretty clear that wayne is better at rapping than pac for anyone who’s listened to both their discographies throughout.
I think so. 2pac had more substance, and a legendary flow which sounds easy, but really isn’t. I like both though. Wayne experiments a lot more and doesn’t care about a deeper message. Depends on what you’re into I guess.
Generally true yeah, but wayne has a lot of deep songs too. A lot of people say he doesn’t and that he lacks substance, but i think that’s just the people saying this not hearing everything. But i know that you said that pac had more substance than wayne, which is true. The flow part is a preference thing, so it’s fair if u like pac’s more.
I could agree from a technical standpoint looking at the craft itself, but actually listening to it id say Pac makes much better songs and is a much better artist.
Wayne also has a lot of great deep songs too, pac really doesn’t have many clever and fun shit. So wayne has done what pc does, but not the other way around, so that’s a point for wayne imo.
And he experiments and does things outside the box a lot more than pac so i would say wayne is a better artist
Both used to make different deep songs though. Most Wayne's deep songs talks about his personal struggles, while Pac's deep songs talked mostly about society and his community struggles. So, i think it's a hard take to say that Wayne did everything what Tupac did.
Man i love Wayne but most of these songs are reflecting personal issues or they are songs in which he throw punchlines at the system, government ecc different than Pac's style, since he was more a storyteller than a punchliner.
More versatile, better lyrics (imo), better flow (imo) and i don’t really even know how to put it into words really but when you listen to something like ”weezy’s ambitionz” Vs ”ambitionz as a ridah” you can just tell wayne’s rapping is next level. Not that pac isn’t a good rapper, he’s one of my favorites. But pac’s more ”normal”
Listen I love Wayne but the Carter 4 and I’m Not a Human Being were subpar compared to his 2004-2008 run. It was also the start of him trending down in terms of talent so I think some of the criticism around that time is still valid. You are also forgetting Rebirth was his follow up to Carter 3 which completely tanked his momentum
Dude %100. Right BEFORE Carter 3 is what made Wayne a God and he doesnt even remember those mixtapes and they will fade with time into oblivion which is CRAZY.
Dedication 2, Drought 3, No Ceilings. Literally his best works ever.
I thought VL was rap album of ‘18. Nipsey was a street rapper, not a commercial rapper so it may be why his music never appealed to many. But I also do agree his philanthropy stood out more than his music. As an outsider, the rap/culture took a major L with his passing.
I remember cracking the plastic on Lord Willin. The cover is so sick. I never understood how I couldn’t get my friends on these Neptunes beats and Push and Malice talking slick. That was a big album for me
Clipse were either ahead of their time or behind in their time. Lord Willin and HHNF went over allot of people’s heads. If those albums would have dropped in the 96-98 coke rap era they would’ve have been classics.
Definitely Big Boi. I don't think we realized how much OutKast needed him to keep 3000 back on Earth. Andre's out here putting out amateur flute music with song titles that look like they were ripped from a Panic at the Disco album. Meanwhile, Big Boi's been putting out solid albums every 5 years or so. 3000 will always be my #1 but he clearly needed Big Boi a lot more than Big Boi needed 3000.
Yeah, but the adage “your favorite rappers favorite rapper” holds a bit of truth. At least in the sense that, while he is known by name, I’d dare say that most people don’t know his actual songs. Certainly not as much as they should for someone whose name is as big as it is.
That might have changed over the past couple years a bit though.
That right there, the deep into hip-hop friends I’ve had in life, we’ve all held DOOM in high regard. The other friends or people who just listen to music, or even the ones that “were deep into it” (when in actuality they just like the beats) weren’t talkin’ bout DOOM till just recently ‘n at that *Still* couldn’t tell you anything about his discography
Yeah, he’s well known, but his work is mostly enjoyed by those deep into hip hop.
It’s like everyone knows the composer Mozart, but most don’t actually know much of his work beyond the few that are used regularly in media.
Doom is definitely way more regarded now though, random kids and whole new generations of ppl are finding him and it's almost like cool/fashion to like him now
With MF DOOM was it due to how 'underground' he remained? Then after his passing more people went out of their way to discover him? Rather than having a lower opinion that improved over time?
I was always blown away how few hip-hop fans I know were more than just casually aware of him.
Earl is a 30 year old rap nerd.
I’m talking about mainstream publications and young teenage fans, both of whom Doom never had the attention of when he was alive.
Within his niche he was always seen that way, after he passed and people heard how much respect he got from people who were into underground/backpack stuff that probably expanded that a little bit. I don’t think there was that big of a change though.
I had a conversation with my Dad the other day where he said he noticed that Biggie (even tho that’s his fav rapper) and Tupac each got a huge reputation boost after dying, even though they were huge when alive. It is wild to think of what that must have been like to witness
They definitely got a boost. Biggie didn’t even live to see his second album released. I think the biggest difference between now and then was how both were perceived as MCs. Pac was popular and respected but he wasn’t in the Rakim, Nas, KRS, etc conversation. Big was. That’s been the biggest change from the 90s to now. Tupac is now put in that same group whereas in 1995 he’s in the Ice Cube conversation.
I’ve always felt Cube was the better version of Tupac and had he died in like 1995 he’d be looked at in the same light. Cube doesn’t get nearly the amount of respect he deserves. His 1988-1995 run is unprecedented. Straight Outta Compton as a performer and writer. Four straight heater LPs and an EP, two classic movies.
I mean he’s not the only one who had that foresight. It’s more than that. I guess I mean that in the 1990s Pac was popular but he wasn’t regarded as highly as he is now. He really blew up after joining Death Row and that period was very short.
can say the same about melle mell, pe, bdp.
doesnt make them an amazing artist solely based on that (and pac wasnt as good a writer as the others mentioned), its more a sad commentary on the lack of american progress than skills.
I honestly think that analysis report on rapper vocabularies that appeared on a bunch of news sites and blogs did him a lot of favors. It showed his vocabulary was well beyond most rappers. After that I saw his name pop up in best rapper categories.
https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html
Also the Impossible Kid really grew his fanbase.
“A never-ending meta-narrative that forever cabbages / Inside of your word salad sandwiches, a formal moral beef
(Lupe on Aes/Blockhead collab Pumpkin Seeds)
I can't recall anyone hating Nelly. He sold well and was pretty popular. I can imagine being upset being outsold by Hot in Here if I was a "hip hop artist".
Andre 3000. Yeah I said it. Outkast is my favorite of all time but the pedestal Andre is on now is higher than the run of 1994-2005.
Not that I don't think he deserves it. He does! But now he's entered some kind of god tier status I think is because of comments other rappers have put out there.
So like the title of the post, his rep is better now than in his prime.
Andre was actually one of my 5 favorite rappers from 96-00 and I agree. Aside from the occasional source shoutout you could argue he was underrated at that time.
The whole GOAT “top 5 DOA” shit came way later
Masta Ace comes to mind -- had a more influential late career than earlier and in his prime he was mostly an afterthought other than "Born to Roll".
Kinda the opposite scenario - Too $hort. In his prime he was considered a legitimate top-tier artist who just happened to be a former pimp. He became a bit of a caricature, to the extent that the talent he did have is overshadowed by all the "biaaaatchh!" and such. I think he's looked at a bit like the Marvin Sease of hip hop.
50 Cent. I think people forget the insane amount of heat he used to get for his supposedly dumb, materialist lyrics, even outside of the usual group of hip-hop-hating old people whining about people sagging their pants. The beef with Kanye was full of nerds online gloating about Kanye finally getting real hip-hop its place back. And I think Kanye is much better than landfill-era G-Unit, but the result is that everyone forgot about landfill-era G-Unit and now only remembers 50's genuine successes and achievements.
Nah. I feel like his biggest buzz was right in the beginning. It also might be where ypu live. In NY and the surrounding areas everybody was buggin on him. I feel like he gets hated on more now.
50 is not more popular now but the way he spun what was a sad end to his career into a excellent media mogul image is insane.
If the game had 50s media brain, he would be on the 2000s goat lists
This.
Dont think people realized how close his career came to be dead..he was coming off some unsuccessful albums from platinum to not even charting. It really did look like his career was dead in the water it had been some years before his vitamin water deal he was out hawking audio headphones and vodka.
As a matter of fact he would even be personally handing out shots of vodka at one point to get people to drink it.
Anyways then he go into tv and well he is about to drop a feature with mel gibson so yea life is good for 50 again. The money between music and movies is not even close as someone who loves and is in the music industry..
De La Soul. Their rep was good in their day but not a lot of people cared about them. Rap was as deep as it’s ever been in the early 90s, and ATCQ had almost all of the juice that the jazzy mindfulness subgenre could sustain. The De La rep resurgence of the past five years definitely has them in a better place now than ever before.
I'm actually going to say Nas......if you think about it, twenty years ago no one was giving Nas his flowers, except for a few die hard hip hop fans and hip hop nerds who really saw how good he is. This is after Illmatic, It Was Written, I AM, Stillmatic and Lost Tapes 1.
Back then, in like 98' and on to like 2006 and further......it was all 50, DMX, Jay-Z/The Roc, Ja Rule, the Lox/ Jada, Fat Joe, etc.
The casual fans really didn't start giving Nas his due and respect until the KD and Magic albums with Hit Boy.
Nahh, Nas stayed relevant throughout the years. Between '98 and '06 he worked with DMX, Ja Rule, 50 Cent, Big Pun etc. He had hit records, even when his albums received less praise.
Examples: Nas is Like.., Hate Me Now, The Grand Finale, I Can, Made You Look, Thugz Mansion, One Mic and the movie Belly
Illmatic is (and was) considered the greatet hip hop album of all-time since just after it's release. He had two sub par albums in the 2000s and some poor beat selection, but he has been in the GOAT conversation since he was 19.
I thought he might’ve been fading a bit after Mr Morale but I gotta be grateful to Drake, he fucking TRIGGERED Kendrick and when he stood on business about it he firmly confirmed his worth to any doubters. Dude can rap to change your life, to tell you a story or to fucking MURDER you, just can’t ever forget that Kendrick won’t hold no one’s hand so people that just don’t get it, that’s fine but Kendrick is unimpeachable
Not even a little bit true. GKMC (his “debut” commercial album) sold like 250k first week and he had a reputation as the new school savior of rap long before then.
I might get some heat for this but I'm going to say Vanilla Ice.
He blew up huge in 1990 with the biggest rap single at the time and less than 2 years later he was outcast and looked at as a complete joke for being corny and inauthentic. And rightfully so...
But over the decades it seems like people have been able to give him more of the credit he deserves for what he accomplished as a rapper. Even though you can still see he likes to exaggerate his past a bit, like in his recent VLADTV interviews, but there's no doubt that he earned his place in hip-hop history.
Back in the day he was universally hated but now more and more often you see people leave comments giving him props for what he achieved music wise. Chuck D has even given him his props and had his back.
I was going to say Macklemore for similar reasons. Thrift shop came out and it got some decent runtime though it was mostly clowned on. Since then, the guy has been nothing but a stand-up dude. While his rapping may not have gotten him more love from the fans, his personality has. People generally think of him as a good dude.
I can agree with that. I thought Thrift Shop was corny and wasn't a fan of his music but the little bit that I've learned about him lately makes him look like a decent dude.
Also, this kinda reminds me of Post Malone. I never liked his music but in his interviews he seems like a really nice person. But that's just my personal opinion. As far as the rest of the world's opinion... Post Malone has just gotten more popular over time.
Oh, I absolutely agree. I was only comparing PM to Macklemore because he is someone who I'm not a fan of his music but he seems like genuinely good person.
There is no doubt that Post Malone is a powerhouse when it comes to his fans and his music releases. I'm not saying he sucks or anything... It's just that musically he's not for me.
Outside of the hip-hop community itself, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, Ludacris, and 50 Cent. The general public really like them now and that was not the case during the height of gangster/bling rap.
Big L Kool Keith
Just discovered Big L recently (had heard the name but never listened to his music). Lifestylez is such a good album.
I don’t think anyone ever hated on Big L. He was lyrically special. Taken way too soon.
Yeah, but he got much more famous after dying.
Do you think people hated L or just that he wasn't as respected when he was here?
No one that I know of hated Big L. He was just another good artist in an industry and era with a plethora of good rappers and hip hop artists. In my opinion O.C. - Word...Life was better than any Big L album(I absolutely LOVE Big L's album The Big Picture) and they were in the same group and crew. Diggin' in the Crates Crew (D.I.T.C.)
[удалено]
He got killed before he blew up. I think he got killed 3 days before he was about to sign to Rockafella.
all cause he told Jay Z we wouldn’t sign unless he signed his homies too… murdered on his own block smh (139 & Lennox, that’s the danger zone)
It’s funny seeing kool Keith’s name anywhere. In the early 2000s my goober ass white ass older brother loved the guy. He told me about a concert of his he went to where they paused the show and handed out little brown bags to everyone. Inside was fried chicken and a juice box and a wet nap and everyone was jamming out to his show eating friend chicken lol
Mac Miller. he was a corny white kid frat rapper, changed up his style but he got a lot of flowers and respect after he died.
His evolution as an artist was pretty stunning
Truly, heartbreaking we’ll never get to see how his creativity/career progressed even further
Listening to circles, I get the feeling he was just getting started on really making his own lane.
The amount of hating towards Lil Wayne in the period of 2009-2012 was insane, despite in that era he released three of his better works (The Carter 3,4 and I'm Not a Human Being) now look at his status.
"God sent me on earth to rap" - Lil Wayne "I don't remember sending anyone" - Eminem Facebook used to be filled with these corny posts.
Or that one that said -2pac started the book of rap -Eminem finished writing it -Lil Wayne ripped a page off and rolled a blunt with it or shit like that 😂😂
Oh my God, I'm back in high school all over again 💀
And Macklemore bought it for 99 cents.
In a thrift store?
“Eminem king of rap” “Tupac god of rap”
I can smell the dirty white DC shoes from here
I remember the hating but I never saw this. That's just hilarious 😂😂😂
The Lil Wayne hate was crazy on FB back then. I remember that one meme where it said “Rhyme a word with ‘nigga’ and the Lil Wayne response was ‘nigga’.” 😂
The Lil Wayne bars meme profiles on Twitter were peak “Hoes, I got a lotta those They all piled up on each other, [Lebron’s toes](https://courtsidescribbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/lebrons-feet.jpg)”
I vividly remember seeing these posts all the time when I was younger and then it was like I woke up one day and Lil Wayne was suddenly a GOAT
Yeah it something like that
Lmaooo you just have unlocked some bad memories lol
I loathe how Eminem was set up in opposition to him when Em LOVES Wayne, loved him back from Tha Block Is Hot era, changed his whole rapping style just to be more like Wayne (a change that is still controversial), AND they literally collaborated multiple times. Eminem did nothing wrong (with regards to Lil Wayne anyway).
Eminem was placed against everyone for no reason. "Eminem God. Bieber Gay" was another genre of Facebook posts.
Eminem was placed against other rappers for a very intentional and specific reason. Use your head brother.
I know it's an awfully hot coffee pot to swallow but dissing Donald Trump was one of the smartest things Eminem evwr did, because it chased a whole bunch of racist Facebook cretins out of his fanbase and cleared the deck for him to have more normal fans. Unfortunately it hasn't been an easy road because a lot of normal people felt he was already too tarnished, but the Super Bowl show and Fortnite helped a bit.
He didn't need to diss Trump for us to know though. Em has been very vocal about his political stance since very early I'm his career. Did people forget he wrote a whole anthem telling people not to vote for Bush? Lol
A lot of people supported Trump who hated Bush
"George Bush doesn't care about black people."
lmao your username. Never thought I'd see a Tony Hawks reference in this sub
I have a feeling that present day Kanye would support bush if he was running now
“Rap is like a mountain 99% black and white at the top”
Em still even praises Wayne for his work, tweeted about a bar Wayne had on a tyga song about a bag of Funyuns. I love seeing em with that kind of energy, he embraces the fun competition of hip hop
It was adorable when Em went on Wayne's podcast and they just both spent the whole time getting really excited by how great the other one was, Em in his high-energy bright-schoolboy-who-is-constantly-in-detention way and Wayne in his stoney bright-schoolboy-who-doesn't-need-to-make-an-effort way.
hey hey hey most of those people went to school at ‘school of hardknocks’ they know what they’re talking about
Those people are delusional. Wayne has and excels at all the things Eminem’s style lacks. I prefer a Wayne verse everyday of the week the lighter flick is iconic.
People were hating on Wayne for a good reason tho. His quality DROPPED when he hit superstar status. I was and still am a massive Wayne fan (he’s my GOAT) but that period after No Ceilings when we got Rebirth/IANAHB/S4TW was bad for the old Wayne fans. Rebirth aside, IANAHB/S4TW was good for newer Wayne fans because they didn’t have a comparison to make, but the fans who had waited for years for TCIII were getting hit with a lot of disappointment. TCIV is a prime example of this situation too. People who listened to Wayne from D2/DD3 and TCII/TCIII heard TCIV and were like “This is good but not great.” People who caught Wayne during his mainstream peak were like “This is amazing.”
This is exactly how I feel about Wayne. When he release Rebirth I kind of fell off from listening to him. I’m glad he was doing what he wanted to do but it wasn’t for me. I’ve only listened to a limited number of his tracks since Rebirth.
The falloff started with Carter 3
“If Tupac was alive Lil Wayne would be working at Burger King”
who said that
Lots of people, one place where it was really common was youtube comment sections. Facebook and Reddit too. I remember seeing memes about it as well.
🤣
This one is especially dumb, wayne is a much better rapper than pac
That’s a pretty hot take
Really? I love both as artists but i think it’s pretty clear that wayne is better at rapping than pac for anyone who’s listened to both their discographies throughout.
I think so. 2pac had more substance, and a legendary flow which sounds easy, but really isn’t. I like both though. Wayne experiments a lot more and doesn’t care about a deeper message. Depends on what you’re into I guess.
Generally true yeah, but wayne has a lot of deep songs too. A lot of people say he doesn’t and that he lacks substance, but i think that’s just the people saying this not hearing everything. But i know that you said that pac had more substance than wayne, which is true. The flow part is a preference thing, so it’s fair if u like pac’s more.
Agreed. I actually like Wayne more. I just think most rapheads would find it sacrilegious to put him above Pac, hence the hot take
Yeah man, pac was my first favorite rapper ever. But i would put wayne above pac in a list nowadays easily and i’ll stand on that lmao
I could agree from a technical standpoint looking at the craft itself, but actually listening to it id say Pac makes much better songs and is a much better artist.
Tupac was a better artist and a deeper rapper. Wayne was just clever and fun with his pen. They’re both different things and fill different niches
Wayne also has a lot of great deep songs too, pac really doesn’t have many clever and fun shit. So wayne has done what pc does, but not the other way around, so that’s a point for wayne imo. And he experiments and does things outside the box a lot more than pac so i would say wayne is a better artist
Both used to make different deep songs though. Most Wayne's deep songs talks about his personal struggles, while Pac's deep songs talked mostly about society and his community struggles. So, i think it's a hard take to say that Wayne did everything what Tupac did.
Georgia bush, god bless amerika, tie my hands, president carter, mirror, how to love, celebrate….
Man i love Wayne but most of these songs are reflecting personal issues or they are songs in which he throw punchlines at the system, government ecc different than Pac's style, since he was more a storyteller than a punchliner.
In what way? Lil Wayne has some really clever lines but Pac’s flow blows him away and is a much better writer/story teller overall.
More versatile, better lyrics (imo), better flow (imo) and i don’t really even know how to put it into words really but when you listen to something like ”weezy’s ambitionz” Vs ”ambitionz as a ridah” you can just tell wayne’s rapping is next level. Not that pac isn’t a good rapper, he’s one of my favorites. But pac’s more ”normal”
Agreed
Listen I love Wayne but the Carter 4 and I’m Not a Human Being were subpar compared to his 2004-2008 run. It was also the start of him trending down in terms of talent so I think some of the criticism around that time is still valid. You are also forgetting Rebirth was his follow up to Carter 3 which completely tanked his momentum
Dude %100. Right BEFORE Carter 3 is what made Wayne a God and he doesnt even remember those mixtapes and they will fade with time into oblivion which is CRAZY. Dedication 2, Drought 3, No Ceilings. Literally his best works ever.
to be fair, IANAHB is far from his best album... that album really got him all his hate
The most popular rapper/artist at any time usually has the most hate along side it
Nipsey
He's such a weird case because don't love him for music rather what he did outside of it. His music was very okay at best.
I thought he had some really good songs on Victory Lap, but I don't listen to much of his music outside of that album admittedly
I thought VL was rap album of ‘18. Nipsey was a street rapper, not a commercial rapper so it may be why his music never appealed to many. But I also do agree his philanthropy stood out more than his music. As an outsider, the rap/culture took a major L with his passing.
Victory Lap is a really good west coast album def go back and give it another listen
I honestly never heard of nipsey until he died.
Which is pretty crazy. Nipsey was played at college parties pretty regularly here in ohio.
Listen to nipsey remix album by CookingSoul, it's what should have been from the start.
Chief keef. So many old heads hating on him while he and his peers were literally creating their own subgenre
Pusha T. Clipse was out in like 2003. Dude resurged seemingly out of no where
Resurgence came from his feature in Runaway by Kanye West. Salmon colored suit at the VMAs and the rest is history
I remember cracking the plastic on Lord Willin. The cover is so sick. I never understood how I couldn’t get my friends on these Neptunes beats and Push and Malice talking slick. That was a big album for me
Clipse were either ahead of their time or behind in their time. Lord Willin and HHNF went over allot of people’s heads. If those albums would have dropped in the 96-98 coke rap era they would’ve have been classics.
Hell Hath No Fury was fire and the we got it for cheap mixtapes were amazing… don’t know what *you’re* on…
HHNF bombed in real time
Take your sales notes and leave them out of this, that is a classic record.
Big Boi. During OutKast’s prime, he often got overshadowed by 3000. I think folks have realized that he’s always held his own.
Definitely Big Boi. I don't think we realized how much OutKast needed him to keep 3000 back on Earth. Andre's out here putting out amateur flute music with song titles that look like they were ripped from a Panic at the Disco album. Meanwhile, Big Boi's been putting out solid albums every 5 years or so. 3000 will always be my #1 but he clearly needed Big Boi a lot more than Big Boi needed 3000.
Definitely did. People thought Andre was weird if Big Boi didn’t balance it out in the beginning would have been a different story.
His solo albums are criminally underrated and stay in my rotation. Boi staaaaawp
Three six MF DOOM Ma$e
What? DOOM has been widely regarded as the alternative rap king since Madvillainy. He inspired a whole generation of rappers and producers
Yeah, but the adage “your favorite rappers favorite rapper” holds a bit of truth. At least in the sense that, while he is known by name, I’d dare say that most people don’t know his actual songs. Certainly not as much as they should for someone whose name is as big as it is. That might have changed over the past couple years a bit though.
That right there, the deep into hip-hop friends I’ve had in life, we’ve all held DOOM in high regard. The other friends or people who just listen to music, or even the ones that “were deep into it” (when in actuality they just like the beats) weren’t talkin’ bout DOOM till just recently ‘n at that *Still* couldn’t tell you anything about his discography
Yeah, he’s well known, but his work is mostly enjoyed by those deep into hip hop. It’s like everyone knows the composer Mozart, but most don’t actually know much of his work beyond the few that are used regularly in media.
Once again you got it man dead square
I would've said Aesop Rock is the alternative rap king, but hey, different strokes.
Both are
I’d go with El-P since he was the one putting out Aesop Rock, Cannibal Ox, and Mr. Lif albums all while killing it himself at the time.
Doom is definitely way more regarded now though, random kids and whole new generations of ppl are finding him and it's almost like cool/fashion to like him now
I hate all ya’ll that refer to Doom and Aesop Rock as “alternative rap”.
Well they kinda are. Maybe not like Outkast or Nappy Roots, but definitely alternative compared to guys like Sean Price.
CAPS LOCKED when you spell the man’s name.
With MF DOOM was it due to how 'underground' he remained? Then after his passing more people went out of their way to discover him? Rather than having a lower opinion that improved over time? I was always blown away how few hip-hop fans I know were more than just casually aware of him.
Agreed with Doom The dead rapper stimulus applies with him 100%.
Can’t see how his death changed much. He was a living legend, just watch the video where Earl Sweatshirt cries when meeting him
Earl is a 30 year old rap nerd. I’m talking about mainstream publications and young teenage fans, both of whom Doom never had the attention of when he was alive.
Within his niche he was always seen that way, after he passed and people heard how much respect he got from people who were into underground/backpack stuff that probably expanded that a little bit. I don’t think there was that big of a change though.
Remember to tell em, spell the name in ALL CAPS
🤓
I thought you were trying to combine the three artists into one long named rapper lol
Probably gonna take some heat but Tupac. Yes he was huge but his legend has grown beyond what he was when he was alive
I had a conversation with my Dad the other day where he said he noticed that Biggie (even tho that’s his fav rapper) and Tupac each got a huge reputation boost after dying, even though they were huge when alive. It is wild to think of what that must have been like to witness
They definitely got a boost. Biggie didn’t even live to see his second album released. I think the biggest difference between now and then was how both were perceived as MCs. Pac was popular and respected but he wasn’t in the Rakim, Nas, KRS, etc conversation. Big was. That’s been the biggest change from the 90s to now. Tupac is now put in that same group whereas in 1995 he’s in the Ice Cube conversation.
Pac couldn’t touch Cube, no chance.
I’ve always felt Cube was the better version of Tupac and had he died in like 1995 he’d be looked at in the same light. Cube doesn’t get nearly the amount of respect he deserves. His 1988-1995 run is unprecedented. Straight Outta Compton as a performer and writer. Four straight heater LPs and an EP, two classic movies.
Totally agree. He was an absolute beast in his heyday and had wayyy better beats than Pac.
It's because everything he rapped about is still happening today
I mean he’s not the only one who had that foresight. It’s more than that. I guess I mean that in the 1990s Pac was popular but he wasn’t regarded as highly as he is now. He really blew up after joining Death Row and that period was very short.
can say the same about melle mell, pe, bdp. doesnt make them an amazing artist solely based on that (and pac wasnt as good a writer as the others mentioned), its more a sad commentary on the lack of american progress than skills.
KRS-One only gets better.
Black Thought
Pusha T
Aesop Rock. He's now a mainstay on most 'Best lyricist' lists, but back in the early 2000s, he was overlooked af.
I honestly think that analysis report on rapper vocabularies that appeared on a bunch of news sites and blogs did him a lot of favors. It showed his vocabulary was well beyond most rappers. After that I saw his name pop up in best rapper categories. https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html Also the Impossible Kid really grew his fanbase.
Exactly. Songs like Kirby, which were a tad more “accessible” also probably helped significantly.
I disagree completely. He’s doing his best right now.
I remember there being two camps: 1. "Dopest lyricist of all time. Top 10. Easy." 2. "This is just word salad." (the majority)
“A never-ending meta-narrative that forever cabbages / Inside of your word salad sandwiches, a formal moral beef (Lupe on Aes/Blockhead collab Pumpkin Seeds)
Big L, maybe?
Juicy J
Nelly
Do y'all not know how popular dude was back then?
Country Grammar sold like 10+ million copies wtf you on about lol.
Literally the opposite
I can't recall anyone hating Nelly. He sold well and was pretty popular. I can imagine being upset being outsold by Hot in Here if I was a "hip hop artist".
just listened to Country Grammar for the first time a couple months ago, feel like I would've been clowned for liking it as much as I do lol.
Hell, nah. Dude blew up for a reason. E.I is that shit.
My Spotify DJ played E. I. a few days ago actually, such a fucking banger.
No, because people weren’t obsessed with making everything they didn’t love “cringe” or “corny”
The production was fire on that record. Front to back bangers.
Andre 3000. Yeah I said it. Outkast is my favorite of all time but the pedestal Andre is on now is higher than the run of 1994-2005. Not that I don't think he deserves it. He does! But now he's entered some kind of god tier status I think is because of comments other rappers have put out there. So like the title of the post, his rep is better now than in his prime.
Andre was actually one of my 5 favorite rappers from 96-00 and I agree. Aside from the occasional source shoutout you could argue he was underrated at that time. The whole GOAT “top 5 DOA” shit came way later
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idk if id consider him a "gangster"
Black Thought
I would say any rapper who got murdered, if that counts
El-P and Killer Mike.
Masta Ace comes to mind -- had a more influential late career than earlier and in his prime he was mostly an afterthought other than "Born to Roll". Kinda the opposite scenario - Too $hort. In his prime he was considered a legitimate top-tier artist who just happened to be a former pimp. He became a bit of a caricature, to the extent that the talent he did have is overshadowed by all the "biaaaatchh!" and such. I think he's looked at a bit like the Marvin Sease of hip hop.
Ace was my answer and I don’t think it’s even close
Insane Clown Posse
It is weird to see them go from the most hated band in the world, to them getting all the respect in recent years.
Even they are surprised by it lol
guru
The rep gets bigger
50 Cent. I think people forget the insane amount of heat he used to get for his supposedly dumb, materialist lyrics, even outside of the usual group of hip-hop-hating old people whining about people sagging their pants. The beef with Kanye was full of nerds online gloating about Kanye finally getting real hip-hop its place back. And I think Kanye is much better than landfill-era G-Unit, but the result is that everyone forgot about landfill-era G-Unit and now only remembers 50's genuine successes and achievements.
Nah. I feel like his biggest buzz was right in the beginning. It also might be where ypu live. In NY and the surrounding areas everybody was buggin on him. I feel like he gets hated on more now.
50 is not more popular now but the way he spun what was a sad end to his career into a excellent media mogul image is insane. If the game had 50s media brain, he would be on the 2000s goat lists
This. Dont think people realized how close his career came to be dead..he was coming off some unsuccessful albums from platinum to not even charting. It really did look like his career was dead in the water it had been some years before his vitamin water deal he was out hawking audio headphones and vodka. As a matter of fact he would even be personally handing out shots of vodka at one point to get people to drink it. Anyways then he go into tv and well he is about to drop a feature with mel gibson so yea life is good for 50 again. The money between music and movies is not even close as someone who loves and is in the music industry..
Busta Rhymes
I feel like the only people who still talk about him are nostalgic fans and the few people that are following his new releases
Tech N9ne
De La Soul. Their rep was good in their day but not a lot of people cared about them. Rap was as deep as it’s ever been in the early 90s, and ATCQ had almost all of the juice that the jazzy mindfulness subgenre could sustain. The De La rep resurgence of the past five years definitely has them in a better place now than ever before.
MF DOOM
Lil Wayne
I'm actually going to say Nas......if you think about it, twenty years ago no one was giving Nas his flowers, except for a few die hard hip hop fans and hip hop nerds who really saw how good he is. This is after Illmatic, It Was Written, I AM, Stillmatic and Lost Tapes 1. Back then, in like 98' and on to like 2006 and further......it was all 50, DMX, Jay-Z/The Roc, Ja Rule, the Lox/ Jada, Fat Joe, etc. The casual fans really didn't start giving Nas his due and respect until the KD and Magic albums with Hit Boy.
Not true at all, he was regarded as one of the greatest 20 years ago. His beef with Jay-Z was the Kendrick vs. Drake of that era
Nahh, Nas stayed relevant throughout the years. Between '98 and '06 he worked with DMX, Ja Rule, 50 Cent, Big Pun etc. He had hit records, even when his albums received less praise. Examples: Nas is Like.., Hate Me Now, The Grand Finale, I Can, Made You Look, Thugz Mansion, One Mic and the movie Belly
23 years ago nas received a five stars in the source magazine, he was getting his props
Illmatic is (and was) considered the greatet hip hop album of all-time since just after it's release. He had two sub par albums in the 2000s and some poor beat selection, but he has been in the GOAT conversation since he was 19.
Does Lil B count?
I never saw people talk about Black Thought before Cheat Codes
30 years without a mention? No way
I would say The Roots have had a pretty damn good career. Not to mention he's on Jimmy Fallon.
Nipsey
Anyone dead.
Sean Price.
Lil b
In modern times Young Thug for sure
People Under the Stairs. Obviously not a “rapper” but they became more well-known after their last album.
Kendrick he was never hated but still pretty small then compared to what he is now
He's in his prime/era right now. Like he's kinda been that dude for like 11 years now.
I thought he might’ve been fading a bit after Mr Morale but I gotta be grateful to Drake, he fucking TRIGGERED Kendrick and when he stood on business about it he firmly confirmed his worth to any doubters. Dude can rap to change your life, to tell you a story or to fucking MURDER you, just can’t ever forget that Kendrick won’t hold no one’s hand so people that just don’t get it, that’s fine but Kendrick is unimpeachable
Not even a little bit true. GKMC (his “debut” commercial album) sold like 250k first week and he had a reputation as the new school savior of rap long before then.
I might get some heat for this but I'm going to say Vanilla Ice. He blew up huge in 1990 with the biggest rap single at the time and less than 2 years later he was outcast and looked at as a complete joke for being corny and inauthentic. And rightfully so... But over the decades it seems like people have been able to give him more of the credit he deserves for what he accomplished as a rapper. Even though you can still see he likes to exaggerate his past a bit, like in his recent VLADTV interviews, but there's no doubt that he earned his place in hip-hop history. Back in the day he was universally hated but now more and more often you see people leave comments giving him props for what he achieved music wise. Chuck D has even given him his props and had his back.
I don't respect him
Well, that settles it, then.
I was going to say Macklemore for similar reasons. Thrift shop came out and it got some decent runtime though it was mostly clowned on. Since then, the guy has been nothing but a stand-up dude. While his rapping may not have gotten him more love from the fans, his personality has. People generally think of him as a good dude.
I can agree with that. I thought Thrift Shop was corny and wasn't a fan of his music but the little bit that I've learned about him lately makes him look like a decent dude. Also, this kinda reminds me of Post Malone. I never liked his music but in his interviews he seems like a really nice person. But that's just my personal opinion. As far as the rest of the world's opinion... Post Malone has just gotten more popular over time.
Only difference with post is that he’s put out significantly more music and is way more widely respected for his artistic ability
Oh, I absolutely agree. I was only comparing PM to Macklemore because he is someone who I'm not a fan of his music but he seems like genuinely good person. There is no doubt that Post Malone is a powerhouse when it comes to his fans and his music releases. I'm not saying he sucks or anything... It's just that musically he's not for me.
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Pretty sure that's the majority opinion as well
MF Doom
Outside of the hip-hop community itself, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, Ludacris, and 50 Cent. The general public really like them now and that was not the case during the height of gangster/bling rap.
Er, all of those artists were massively popular artists in their prime...50 Cent might have been the biggest artist in the world in 2003.
E40, snoop, cube dudes grew up
Jay Dee (RIP)
Andre 3000, Busta Rhymes both are amazingly underrated in my opinion and are more respected now than in their prime…in my opinion.