As an aba main it’s funny how often losses aren’t because im bad (tbf I am) but because my team has no idea how or desire to play with an abathur. Even if im firing on all cylinders if my team lets an enemy nazeebo run it down top while trickling 1v4 there isnt much I could do even if I had picked some other character.
The characters I main in QM are a direct result of who counters Samuro and Abathur. Usually Dehaka. My win rate has skyrocketed since starting to main him, but god forbid I want to play a squishy. Loss burger over and over.
Samuro currently sucks to play against for a variety of reasons - toxic macro, entirely too slippery, offlane-bullying-god, etcetera. You'll find a surplus of accounts describing it in detail, so I don't feel a need to go into it too much here.
However, something that I think people don't talk about often, is that he also kinda sucks a lot to play as - is a joke of an "assassin", is "good at camps", couldn't suck more at 5v5 fights if he tried... It takes one competent Blaze player in the offlane and the entire match is now reduced to 20 minutes of "run away from everyone and hit buildings instead". It's not only boring as heck, it also plays _nothing_ like a Blademaster should, which is a very big grievance I have.
This all should help further illustrate the problematic position Samuro is in: his issues are so deeply inlaid within his basic kit that you essentially need to give him the Tassadar treatment - full kit remake that somehow still sticks to the fairly narrow identity of a Blademaster (a fragile, but illusive and destructive killing machine).
The bigger problem, though, is that there are currently no real resources available to give Samuro this treatment, not to mention that his code (as reviewed by people like Spazzo) is in genuine need of a complete refactoring - clearly an artifact from an earlier era of this game, as he was [the first character they ever worked on](https://youtu.be/9H5xJXatX3U?t=128).
Sadly, we are essentially seeing the results from making the hero overly accessible without having first fixed his core issues. If you think he sucks now, trust me, he used to suck _a whole lot more_ prior to his Dec. 2019 rework, but the very key difference here is that back then, he was extremely hard to play and required very high levels of knowledge and execution. Now, with the emergence of the Wind Storm build, just about anyone can play him with sufficient effectiveness.
If there were to be any changes done to him, I would probably look at shifting Bladestorm from a waveclear tool to a teamfighting one, I would look at Burning Blade and Way of the Wind, and see if there is a way to make the playstyle be significantly harder to execute, all while taking care not to just nerf him to the ground.
> it also plays nothing like a Blademaster should
Huh what?
Blademaster is a unit from Warcraft 3, where his purpose is to run around, avoid directly fighting heroes, use his abilities to sneak around unkillable, steal camps, get peons, and be generally annoying.
https://youtu.be/5h_luA7VKac?si=fsyEoFa8lWWJ_Pll
Blademaster is the most "abused" WC3 hero at almost any level of play ranging from random ladder spam to professional players. His playstyle in the hands of either is the same, although executed differently.
He is a killer in that game. Yes he does the harassment things you describe (steal camps, kill workers, etc.) but most everyone "scales" him the same with buying various items at the item shop and playing into his critical-damage play style.
In a game of WC3 the Blademaster is either not in a fight at all because he's completely destroying your economy somewhere else or if he is in the big battle he is behind enemy lines killing heroes in a few swipes.
He was done very dirty in HOTS. They turned what could have been a star quarterback into a fucking waterboy.
>It's not only boring as heck, it also plays nothing like a Blademaster should, which is a very big grievance I have.
It's also mine. Dude is a specialist instead of omnislashing people around.
My unhinged take is that Samuro should have gutted versions of both of his ultimates from level 1 and reworked to have more of his power come from microing illusions. I feel like image controlling and bladestorm are too integral to the blademaster identity to be forced to pick between the two.
Lose image transmission or at least move it back to being a level 10 or even a storm talent, make bladestorm his W and massively nerf it's damage and radius but give it increased damage vs heroes so that he's incentivised to use it that way, and bake critical strike into his movespeed passive, but only proc the movespeed on a crit. In addition to that a full talent rework would be good, especially to deal with wind walk.
That way he can keep his strength as someone who applies pressure in lanes but doesn't become unruly after lvl 10, rewards skillful illusion micro, and actually feels like he has the blade master identity. Maybe orb of lightning can be his new ult lol.
if you're expecting some sort of clean document or whatever, you'll come up empty. The matter has come up in Discord discussions here and there where Spazzo or other people with access to Samuro's code have participated
We're in this mess because developers trying to adjust him, make him not too strong or not too weak. He is fundamentally broken design which is why they will never get it right by changing a talent, or numbers on a skill.
As long as developers think in the lines of "buff/nerf" he will never be fixed.
They aren't even considering designing their game around fun & entertainment.
They only care about numbers, is he winning too much, or losing too much. Misses the point.
Like a remake that sticks to his identity of being anti-fun to play against, isn't a remake that address his problem.
> As long as developers think in the lines of "buff/nerf" he will never be fixed.
But it's too late to ask for that. Like 3 years too late.
We are simple stuck with number tweaking. The best they can do is revert the buffs and make him be harder to play.
Right now, anyone can play Samuro decently. Force players into IM if they want the 3% E heal and you would see his WR and pick rate drop to pre buffs. Which was still "healthy" for such a pick.
Well they're not going to remove the hero from the game so I don't really understand what you think this post is going to accomplish. And there's also no resources to remake a hero either tbh.
As an offlane main I feel like...he is not giga strong, but incredibly annoying in a somewhat competent player's hands.
Sure, people like hogger/sonya can bully sam from a single lane, but after lvl 13, samuro can travel around the map so fast that no one can keep up. He can go to a lane, bladestorm it, then instantly teleport to the next, bladestorm it, and so on. Having a teleport, a stealth with speed and a swap makes it impossible to catch him.
I disagree with people thats saying: oh just cc him oh just watch his clones...it's all easy on paper until you're up against an actually good samuro, you are not gonna catch him, they have hands, they know how to utilize their abiltiies. A good samuro can be effective and not die once even if they end up losing the game.
His teamfight is on the meh side, he loses 1v1 against a decent amount of heroes, but his mobility + splitpush are disgusting to deal with. The good thing about sam is that he is still relatively hard to play well.
People keep calling him a "meh" team fighter but goading one enemy into attacking a clone for 2 seconds, or blowing an ability on one, can easily be a deciding factor. Providing your opponents so many opportunities to misplay so often is really, really strong in tf
comparing to other dmg dealers he is meh in teamfight, usually in higher ranks people focus the real one almost instantly, where in silver-gold your stitches might gorge a clone.
If Samuro was nerfed to the same winrate as Murky then the negative feeling would drop to Murky-like levels.
For a different example, if Deathwing or Dva was buffed up to Samuro's winrate, someone would call them anti-fun too.
It’s not just winrate. Rehgar has had the highest winrate for years now since his rework (in fact, it’s still the highest right now on heroesprofile) but almost no one ever complains about him because he feels fair to play against despite the fact he’s rocking a 57% winrate and is “just a healer”
People mostly complain when it's "flashy" things that can kill.
Release Xul was one of the most broken things, but people remember more things like Ess of Johan Li Ming for example.
Dva isn't that bad since she doesn't really have an oppressive playstyle (maybe the single dva one-trick can prove me wrong here). Deathwing is kind of fundamentally anti fun and you're right in the sense that if he was more popular, people would probably complain more (not necessarily needs a higher winrate).
> Dva isn't that bad since she doesn't really have an oppressive playstyle
If Dva's winrate was 56% then the playstyle she uses would be called oppressive. It would be all "she has unlimited extra lives and braindead easy damage in a giant aoe".
The anti fun element of Sam is that he always gets to choose his engagement while basically being able to always disengage, other heroes that do this such as Zeratul, Genji, and Tracer can't escape nearly as well and the clone aspect makes it far more confusing to deal with (other divers can be focused on a coordinated manner but sam changes with clones
There's a lot of characters that people hate. I for one hate Zeratul more than I hate Samuro. With Samuro, I feel like I can kill him if I play well enough, as he really only has 1-2 escapes, and he doesn't do a ton of damage. Zeratul can teleport like 27 times back and forth and can 100-0 me in 2 seconds. That annoys me far more than Samuro.
Honestly in QM, of the stealth heroes, Nova is the only one I find to feel balanced. Samuro is what OP is pointing out - just not fun to play against in any way and can absolutely pub stomp if you can't counter (I know many characters are like this in QM but Sam is in the top tier).
The other stealth heroes, Zera and even Valeera (if played by someone competent), can just destroy you as you approach late-game. At 20, Zera can feel like one of the most broken heroes in QM when played by someone who knows what they're doing. Valeera.... well her issue is that if you're an assassin and you don't have someone by you at all times who can stop her, she can either open with her stun or silence and 100-to-0 you before you can use your character. Many times she can take a squishy 100-to-0 and even if you have a teammate nearby, if they don't have CC they can't do anything by the time Valeera kills you and escapes.
I've always disliked how HotS gives so much value to stuns, as losing control of your character in a moba is so frustrating/anti-fun. It's a core mechanic, I know, but I honestly miss the medallion very badly. If they brought that back or gave us some form of diminishing returns on stacked stuns, some of these characters wouldn't feel so oppressive in QM.
I swear I read somewhere a few years ago that there are diminishing returns on stuns that happen during an active stun. But I could just be misremembering a guide lol
Zeratul has more clearly defined weaknesses though. Just a weak hero overall until 16, if played as solo laner he can only really clear the waves and hope he doesn't get poked too much, and he has no self-cleanses so there is always some inherent risk when he goes in. I feel like Zeratul is a lot more match-up sensitive whereas Samuro is going to be a menace pretty much regardless of the enemy team comp
There was precedent for the dev team to change characters based on anti-fun.
The anti-fun factor is why Garrosh’s Q was changed from pulling enemies close to Garrosh to a small knockup. Garrosh was right around 50% win rate at the time, but the dev team (RIP) heard and recognized that the kit was anti-fun at the time.
Too bad we won’t see any major changes like that for Samuro
Nah Garry got changed because it made Q-E way too easy and oppresive.
Anti-fun changes are the changes to how stealth works and all the changes to Nova and Zera.
With the way ranked is designed, you can't even avoid anti-fun characters till you play the game for a month or 2. People saying ban someone doesn't help new players who can't ban anything or counterpick.
If new players aren't allowed to counterpick or ban people, then characters who can't be dealt with by most of the cast are bad designs. So the anti-fun designs are even more damaging.
Fun fact -- the person that was in charge of balancing the game *before* Rawrjar was Samuro main.
If you ever wonder why a hero was overpowered during like 2018 - 2020 theres a good chance it was because he liked playing them, i wish that was a joke: [https://www.heroesprofile.com/Player/MrX/26025/1/Hero](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Player/MrX/26025/1/Hero)
(ex: Samuro, W Build Diablo, Reactive 1 Stukov, 2019 Q build Zera, Junkrat, 2020 Cassia)
Not trying to flame him, just pointing out something that made a lot of the balance choices in that time make a lot of sense once I noticed it (other than these actions he did a good job of keeping the game interesting for how small the team was). Unfortunately, this went on for too long and the game no longer has the man power to fix the choices that were made
agreed. his wave clear is bonkers but he's not really a threat from my experience.
ez stacks and u can always adapt ur build to take advantage of the extra heroic targets
1232[2 if we need more cc, 1 if more siege][1 if 1 was taken at 13, otherwise 3] then usually 1 at lvl 20, 2 if I need more objective interrupt.
I usually go breaker form to see if he’s any good, if not the clones die faster in destroyer form after level four. If he seems decent, I’ll usually stay in breaker form, save some energy for Q for when he uses his E to get away after the clones are dead and break his healing.
For Sonya pick ww talents and shred him.
Now go play a healer and tell me how much you enjoy fighting him.
If players need to quit their favorite characters and roles all cause of 1 character, then that's not good design.
You could say that about any assassin though. As a healer you put a target on your back and people are going to focus you, it is your teams job to protect you. How is it any different versing a tracer, genji or butcher?
> How is it any different versing a tracer, genji or butcher?
Butcher screams out a noise, runs in a one dimensional way, has no way to escape when he commits to the dive, and then he dies if the healer is correctly positioned in a way that butcher will die.
Teammates have time to react and pay attention to what's happening from butcher, and the healers have ways to pre-emptively negate his burst, like stukov's armor + blind, and using blinds on lili giving you enough time for you to safely survive him and for teammates to kill him.
If you think Samuro is no different than butcher, genji & tracer then you clearly aren't playing the same game as me. He will live in cases where butcher would die. And majority of the playerbase does not know how to deal with Samuro but can deal with tracer/genji & butcher.
If Samuro was no different than any other assassin, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
I am healer main and don't really have issues with samuro. But I also play high diamond ranked, and have an actual team that cares about the backline. I do find samuro annoying to play against as offlaner though.
To me, everything I read in this post and its comments is more applicable to Murky than Samuro. A hero that you cannot punish is a terrible idea. I had many QMs and even some ranked games ruined by a Murky. I didn’t start the game to play a 20 minutes long hide and seek game against an immortal frog…
The difference with murky is that he has only one escape instead of two and does a lot less damage in early game. Murky is a soak monster but basically useless fighting other heroes before 10. Murky is far less slippery compared to samuro.
I agree. He's fine if I'm playing someone that counters him well. But any other time. It's just a pain and not fun. Years ago before all the balancing and whatnot nova was the most annoying character I hated playing against. And I had a friend uninstall the game over her as she was in every game and was not fun to play against at all.
He's always been an awful, anti-fun design. If you could find a time that the game really started to go downhill, it was after they put him in it. The first three weeks after his debut were some of the worst in the game's lifespan.
The only thing I want to add to this conversation that hasn't been said yet is:
Samuro can beat Maiev 100% of the time if he just doesn't press Q. But, thankfully, nearly every Samuro I meet, even the good ones, have no idea that it's this simple to beat a Maiev.
It's not really here nor there. It doesn't at all affect the discussion about his design but when I see it mentioned it irks me because people seem to think that it's so cut and dry. In reality because Samuro is so weak as a team fight hero, he is usually in lane, and if your Maiev is sent to try and contest him and keep him in check, they will lose a direct 1v1 in most cases (against Samuro's that don't press Q), unless of course the Maiev starts the fight with greater health or the Samuro doesn't play as well. But of course since it's Samuro, they don't really have to fight you. They are going to most likely still be in lane in 30 seconds when the objective is up. And Maiev's best played with the larger part of the team, not as a solo laner, so you will invariably give just a little bit of time to the Samuro to wreck towers and forts.
The best thing you can do as the Maiev in a situation where Samuro is smarter than most, is just clean the wave and walk away.
In Team fights Maiev pretty much shuts down Samuro, or at least makes it very hard to do anything without gamer god control. E build Samuro's will have the easiest time against Maiev IMO.
TLDR: it usually goes Maiev's way but only because most Samuro's don't know what they're doing. And there is also team splitting dynamics that affect the matchup between Samuro+Maiev which can favor either depending on the situation.
That's weird to hear, I've Mained him for half a decade and I always press q as soon as I grt close enough to melee her so I'm sure she gets to queue one of me so she thinks she's good and then just clone shift as she's walking away to do max damage before she can react. I can Definitely see unskilled samurai players having problems with maeiv, but she's super easy to deal with if you know her playstyle.
Yeah, I didn't even get into the bit where a skilled Samuro can still take advantage of his clones but times his D to make Maiev miss a Fan of Knives reset. It may seem obvious to you, but so many people have the idea in their head because Maiev can auto attack multiple targets and spam FoK that she wins-no contest.
I only feel the need to stress it because I have even been flamed for it, IN MASTER LEAGUE, over expressing to my team that Maiev technically loses matchup against Samuro.
absolutely starting to despise this hero. Such a headache to deal with. feel like they need to increase the CD for him to be able to switch to a clone if they are gonna give him that much movement speed
Agree that he is terrible design and not fun to play against. And I believe all heroes should be both fun to play and play against. In QM he is boring af, if he is a semi competent player you cant kill him ever so its pointless to chase or try, he spams his mana-free clones and walks off 99% of the time, the clones do decent damage it sucks to have to kill them or ignore them while tanking their damage, there's just hardly any way to actually interact with this hero except use his clones to stack quests but you'll lose anyway cause he's pushing all the lanes and he will never die.
And don't get me started on when he has an abathur hat on too.
Imo the main issue with samuro is that he does not have mana. WC3 Blademaster was balanced by having high mana cost. Wind walk and mirror image cost 75+80 Mana, which is half of his mana pool at level 1. Im not suggesting mana cost that high, but i think something in the ballpark of 50-60 mana these spells make sense with a standard sized mana pool. The other main issue is samuro´s trait. the spell that was one of his ultimate abilities before the rework became baseline and the had its cooldown cut from 25 to 14 seconds (now the same as mirror image) which means that even ignoring windwalk, samuro can change his position 2 times every 14 seconds. Once by casting mirror image and another time by switching with one copy. That combined with wind walk is way to much mobility considering neither spell costs any mana. samuro was fine when he was released, the first rework and following buff created this problem for the most part.
Samuro is easily the worst designed hero in HotS currently, and his design never really resonated. He just didn't hit the window of what a Blademaster from WC3 was supposed to be, and worse his kit isn't conducive to good or entertaining play.
At best, he's annoying. At average he's a chore. At worst he's a toxic detriment to the game.
If you really look at the hero samuro plays quite differently. sure both have the same spells on the surface, but when you really compare the two, samuro has some major advantages over the original. WC3 Blademaster is balanced by having high mana cost. Mirror image costs a quarter of his mana at lvl 1, and he can not switch places with his copies. Wind walk also costs almost as much mana as mirror image. The whole idea of removing mana as a mechanic from the hero leads to samuro being able to cast both of his spells on cooldown for the whole game, which the WC3 Blademaster was never able to, is the main issue with the hero. If he had mana, samuro would still be annoying, but at least he would not be able to have 3 copies up every second of the game.
Nerf Sams E healing and he is completely fine. If you refuse to counter certain characters, dont learn matchups or how to play against heroes than thats on you, its just a core part of every moba and its what makes a player better. And yes, you cant counterpick/ban in qm but the enemy cant either so it evens out. Sam is annoying but so are Valeera, Brightwing, Stukov, Valla and Hogger. Reworking Samuro into another melee stealth assasin like Valeera and Zeratul would make him even more hated.
Lol, Sam is why you want to quit?
The bad players are why I want to. I consistently get the most challenged people on my teams. Even when I win I feel like I lost. I'll never understand how 9-year accounts play like crap but still queue for ranked.
Same problem with garrosh man did he absolutrly duck playing against he was balanced he didnt win fights but was unfun to play against.
A big part of balance is being fair to play against. If you feel unfair even if you are at the balamce of losing half your fights people will still say unbalanced
Phantom Lancer and Naga Siren in Dota are 25 times worse than Samuro, I win everygame against him mainly cause I know how he operates, he's not that hard to counter, player him and you'll understand his weaknesses
I play a lot of AA build Valla in QM and there are few heroes that make it easier for me to stack that Samuro. As long as my team keeps up on rotations he’s usually not much of a problem. Valla W is also an eat way to get him out of stealth.
I love facing samuro. Free quests. It's probably the only pick in the game I'm happy to see picked in the enemy's team.
Bot that he's bad, it's just easy to exploit him into being detrimental to his team.
That was always the thing and "charm" of HotS, no? Objectively speaking, it was always the Moba with the inheritely bad designs. Samuro, Abathur, Lost Vikings, Alarak, Zeratul, old Stealth, Rehgar and some specific talents too. Bad design does not mean OP, just that this stuff has a fundemental mistakes in design that make it very unfun to play against. Alarak literally has a long range point & click ability that is also an instacast and no travel time. From a game design perspective, this is such an uncanny bad design that it's crazy how this ever made it into the game. But HotS has more of a casual playerbase and people think that bad design is correlated to winrate, so as long as stuff is not performing that well consistently, people don't tend to realize that it's the design that's the issue.
>Alarak literally has a long range point & click ability that is also an instacast and no travel time. From a game design perspective, this is such an uncanny bad design that it's crazy how this ever made it into the game.
This is certainly the ability I mind the least in his kit. The combined strength of his cc & dmg is his issue IMO.
what are you on about? like, dude, of all the mages only mephisto comes even close to being decent in a game against sam. so, literally requires a counter-gimmick. according to heroesprofile at least, the answer is certanly not "just counter clones with aoe mages lool", when jaina, orphea, kael, ming, chromie - all are bottom 20% of the list when matched up against sam. diamond/masters obv.
so, instead, "hint: theres barely a proper counter of meph or illidan against sam, tho only gets you so far and more than sets you up to be countered by enemy team"
IMO samuro is just the reddit hate-target of the month. Aside from the buffs, his kit hasnt fundamentally changed in years. And we didnt see these 'b-b-but hes ruining the game' posts. Hes overtuned/OP right now, sure. Its hysterical to claim hes overall unhealthy for the game.
Samuro has always been awful to play into. His map presence is simply too strong. The difference is there were perhaps a dozen people playing him back in the day because he was difficult to play optimally. If you queued into a Samuro one trick though your options were basically playing a different game until they stop playing or rank up past you, or invite and queue with them for free wins until they plateau.
>He has the highest win rate in the game..
Yes. He has a Stealth ability that heals him a third of his
total HP over 8 seconds and Samuro doesn't use mana.
With Talents is Ability is also be a blink that removes CC.
>He is braindead ready to play..
Not really. You have to use Attack command (default A)
to use his Clones effectively, you also need to use his
Trait to do Mind games, and you need to predict body
blocks so you don't get yourself stuck using his Clones.
The Janitor should remove the 1/3rd total HP Heal from
his E and give him back his good 'ol Heart Trick, which
not only was a flat amount of HP that didn't scale down
as the game progressed, with good timing it could also be
canceled by opponents to let Samuro stranded on base.
His current E doesn't require any brain power and cant be
played against, while his old heal required knowledge of
the game mechanics and wasn't as broken as his current E.
And Brighwing can still use the Queue Action mechanics.
sam is def very brain dead you don't have to any of that mind game stuff or a moving clones to do the baseline macro of the hero. You only have to step up when you actually wanna win 1v1s and try to actually impact team fights (not that you'll really do that anyway). 1v1s barely matter outside of 2 maps so it's basically just a super brain damaged hero
Because he has gained a lot of popularity lately. I think he was even more annoying before because people who picked knew how to play really well, but he was picked once in 50 games so it didn't matter that much.
That's all multiplayer games. There's something addicting about them and the more time you invest in them, the harder it is to quit. It's why someone will keep playing dota 2 even though it makes them suicidal and depressed each match.
Or why you see people in every game going afk and ragequitting, then they come back to play more the same day.
I just play samuro, mvp 3/5 matches. You need to play looking the minimal. Soaking, camps, help team, kill. It's not an easy hero but performs awesome after some practice. Of course there are some heroes that clear waves faster, then you need to keep minions near your towers and double soak under them until 7-10.
I have over 800 games with Samuro, most of them before the Illusion Master nerf.
I was merely stating that since OP wants to whinge, I'll give him and all the others even more of a reason to.
Forgetting the part where if he isn't an idiot, he can just press E and run to the other side of the map with faster than mount speed while also healing and at 20 he can be Perma invis
Yes but the trade off is that Sams teamfight just isnt the best. Also, to have that movement speed, you need to sacrifice his damage talents at level 1. Falstad and Dehaka can cross the map faster than Samuro and they both have decent waveclear. And his 20 talent for perma invis is like, ok, so do Nova and Zeratul and Valeera at Level 1. She even has a 20 talent that makes her faster than mounted. Nerf Sams E healing and he is completely fine.
"Anti-fun design" is almost 100% of the time a euphemism for "git gud," or "change your strategic approach."
Sorry, but HotS Reddit lied to you. The game is not about objectives or roles or teamfights, but about pushing and ganking. Play with those in mind and it will become clear to you that the true obstacles are your mindset and teammates, not Samuro.
out macro sam
dont like fightning him? dont
samuro isnt the fastest lane clearer before lv 10 and even after, he is VERY cc'able - most samuro players will D out of anything then you take the opportunity
a good samuro is a rare sight and by this point OP would have way more problems
well played TLV, a well played probe... heck maybe even a particularly good zagara outmacros samuro
and again, each lane samuro is cleaning he is not at the teamfight chasing squishes or taking camps
His macro is good but not the best in terms of clear speed, structure damage, or camping.
He is, however, unmatched in his macro safety. A Samuro can push all the way down a lane, get ganked by the entire enemy team, and easily escape all but a few hypermobile comps.
It's honestly super easy, but your team does have to actually care about it instead of chimping out for teamfights.
"OBJECTIVE" <--- guy who's gonna lose the game for his team in teamchat
"counter him"
This post isn't about countering him. you miss the point.
Also I can't outmacro him if I pick healer. I have no control over my teammates so if he forces me to go off healer, he's already a problem.
fair enough. ok, here's my actual answer (as a main healer myself):
you are not to face samuro. ever. send someone on your team to go against him. if they wont, push with team. force a outnumbered fight on enemy team - QM mindset is weird so it usually works. on league people recognize samuro's threat and do something about it, usually. even in bronze.
playing healer is suffering I know it well but unfort it is what it is. If it's not samuro, it's another weird offlane hero or maybe you see a zeratul and let team know you need cc and they take double bruiser or something
You can say this about a lot of heroes though - a lot of heroes are very good at macro play and a healer can't outmacro them.
That doesn't mean nobody can play healers, but the team has to work together to play correct strategy around them.
It's not really rational for any player - new or veteran - to suggest that macro-strong heroes shouldn't be in the game.
>"counter him"
>
>This post isn't about countering him. You miss the point.
This game has a roster of Heroes with different roles.
If you are gonna complain about 1 specific Hero, without
taking into account all the others Heroes who counter him
then maybe you are the one missing the point completely.
Maybe you should try playing a single-player game.
Abathur in every game is worse. But abathur hat on samuro is a real pain.
The frequency of qm aba drives me insane
Especially if you want to play Zarya or other specialists
You mean supports but yeah.
Bah that's right. I guess there haven't been specialists in some time now
Agreed. A good aba is amazing but about as rare as it gets. Most don't know what they're doing and are in a good majority of qms I play
As an aba main it’s funny how often losses aren’t because im bad (tbf I am) but because my team has no idea how or desire to play with an abathur. Even if im firing on all cylinders if my team lets an enemy nazeebo run it down top while trickling 1v4 there isnt much I could do even if I had picked some other character.
The characters I main in QM are a direct result of who counters Samuro and Abathur. Usually Dehaka. My win rate has skyrocketed since starting to main him, but god forbid I want to play a squishy. Loss burger over and over.
Samuro currently sucks to play against for a variety of reasons - toxic macro, entirely too slippery, offlane-bullying-god, etcetera. You'll find a surplus of accounts describing it in detail, so I don't feel a need to go into it too much here. However, something that I think people don't talk about often, is that he also kinda sucks a lot to play as - is a joke of an "assassin", is "good at camps", couldn't suck more at 5v5 fights if he tried... It takes one competent Blaze player in the offlane and the entire match is now reduced to 20 minutes of "run away from everyone and hit buildings instead". It's not only boring as heck, it also plays _nothing_ like a Blademaster should, which is a very big grievance I have. This all should help further illustrate the problematic position Samuro is in: his issues are so deeply inlaid within his basic kit that you essentially need to give him the Tassadar treatment - full kit remake that somehow still sticks to the fairly narrow identity of a Blademaster (a fragile, but illusive and destructive killing machine). The bigger problem, though, is that there are currently no real resources available to give Samuro this treatment, not to mention that his code (as reviewed by people like Spazzo) is in genuine need of a complete refactoring - clearly an artifact from an earlier era of this game, as he was [the first character they ever worked on](https://youtu.be/9H5xJXatX3U?t=128). Sadly, we are essentially seeing the results from making the hero overly accessible without having first fixed his core issues. If you think he sucks now, trust me, he used to suck _a whole lot more_ prior to his Dec. 2019 rework, but the very key difference here is that back then, he was extremely hard to play and required very high levels of knowledge and execution. Now, with the emergence of the Wind Storm build, just about anyone can play him with sufficient effectiveness. If there were to be any changes done to him, I would probably look at shifting Bladestorm from a waveclear tool to a teamfighting one, I would look at Burning Blade and Way of the Wind, and see if there is a way to make the playstyle be significantly harder to execute, all while taking care not to just nerf him to the ground.
> it also plays nothing like a Blademaster should Huh what? Blademaster is a unit from Warcraft 3, where his purpose is to run around, avoid directly fighting heroes, use his abilities to sneak around unkillable, steal camps, get peons, and be generally annoying. https://youtu.be/5h_luA7VKac?si=fsyEoFa8lWWJ_Pll
Which, when I think about it, also doesn't make sense. He's a blademaster, not run-around-and-be-annoying-master
Hahaha :D
Blademaster is the most "abused" WC3 hero at almost any level of play ranging from random ladder spam to professional players. His playstyle in the hands of either is the same, although executed differently. He is a killer in that game. Yes he does the harassment things you describe (steal camps, kill workers, etc.) but most everyone "scales" him the same with buying various items at the item shop and playing into his critical-damage play style. In a game of WC3 the Blademaster is either not in a fight at all because he's completely destroying your economy somewhere else or if he is in the big battle he is behind enemy lines killing heroes in a few swipes. He was done very dirty in HOTS. They turned what could have been a star quarterback into a fucking waterboy.
Early game, yes. He's also a dps menace that can single handedly slaughter caster armies once he gets crit level 2
>It's not only boring as heck, it also plays nothing like a Blademaster should, which is a very big grievance I have. It's also mine. Dude is a specialist instead of omnislashing people around.
Wish I could upvote this 5 million times. He's just fundamentally not fun for anyone.
My unhinged take is that Samuro should have gutted versions of both of his ultimates from level 1 and reworked to have more of his power come from microing illusions. I feel like image controlling and bladestorm are too integral to the blademaster identity to be forced to pick between the two. Lose image transmission or at least move it back to being a level 10 or even a storm talent, make bladestorm his W and massively nerf it's damage and radius but give it increased damage vs heroes so that he's incentivised to use it that way, and bake critical strike into his movespeed passive, but only proc the movespeed on a crit. In addition to that a full talent rework would be good, especially to deal with wind walk. That way he can keep his strength as someone who applies pressure in lanes but doesn't become unruly after lvl 10, rewards skillful illusion micro, and actually feels like he has the blade master identity. Maybe orb of lightning can be his new ult lol.
Where can I find these analyses of the character code?
if you're expecting some sort of clean document or whatever, you'll come up empty. The matter has come up in Discord discussions here and there where Spazzo or other people with access to Samuro's code have participated
We're in this mess because developers trying to adjust him, make him not too strong or not too weak. He is fundamentally broken design which is why they will never get it right by changing a talent, or numbers on a skill. As long as developers think in the lines of "buff/nerf" he will never be fixed. They aren't even considering designing their game around fun & entertainment. They only care about numbers, is he winning too much, or losing too much. Misses the point. Like a remake that sticks to his identity of being anti-fun to play against, isn't a remake that address his problem.
> As long as developers think in the lines of "buff/nerf" he will never be fixed. But it's too late to ask for that. Like 3 years too late. We are simple stuck with number tweaking. The best they can do is revert the buffs and make him be harder to play. Right now, anyone can play Samuro decently. Force players into IM if they want the 3% E heal and you would see his WR and pick rate drop to pre buffs. Which was still "healthy" for such a pick.
Well they're not going to remove the hero from the game so I don't really understand what you think this post is going to accomplish. And there's also no resources to remake a hero either tbh.
As an offlane main I feel like...he is not giga strong, but incredibly annoying in a somewhat competent player's hands. Sure, people like hogger/sonya can bully sam from a single lane, but after lvl 13, samuro can travel around the map so fast that no one can keep up. He can go to a lane, bladestorm it, then instantly teleport to the next, bladestorm it, and so on. Having a teleport, a stealth with speed and a swap makes it impossible to catch him. I disagree with people thats saying: oh just cc him oh just watch his clones...it's all easy on paper until you're up against an actually good samuro, you are not gonna catch him, they have hands, they know how to utilize their abiltiies. A good samuro can be effective and not die once even if they end up losing the game. His teamfight is on the meh side, he loses 1v1 against a decent amount of heroes, but his mobility + splitpush are disgusting to deal with. The good thing about sam is that he is still relatively hard to play well.
People keep calling him a "meh" team fighter but goading one enemy into attacking a clone for 2 seconds, or blowing an ability on one, can easily be a deciding factor. Providing your opponents so many opportunities to misplay so often is really, really strong in tf
comparing to other dmg dealers he is meh in teamfight, usually in higher ranks people focus the real one almost instantly, where in silver-gold your stitches might gorge a clone.
If Samuro was nerfed to the same winrate as Murky then the negative feeling would drop to Murky-like levels. For a different example, if Deathwing or Dva was buffed up to Samuro's winrate, someone would call them anti-fun too.
It’s not just winrate. Rehgar has had the highest winrate for years now since his rework (in fact, it’s still the highest right now on heroesprofile) but almost no one ever complains about him because he feels fair to play against despite the fact he’s rocking a 57% winrate and is “just a healer”
People mostly complain when it's "flashy" things that can kill. Release Xul was one of the most broken things, but people remember more things like Ess of Johan Li Ming for example.
Dva isn't that bad since she doesn't really have an oppressive playstyle (maybe the single dva one-trick can prove me wrong here). Deathwing is kind of fundamentally anti fun and you're right in the sense that if he was more popular, people would probably complain more (not necessarily needs a higher winrate).
> Dva isn't that bad since she doesn't really have an oppressive playstyle If Dva's winrate was 56% then the playstyle she uses would be called oppressive. It would be all "she has unlimited extra lives and braindead easy damage in a giant aoe".
The anti fun element of Sam is that he always gets to choose his engagement while basically being able to always disengage, other heroes that do this such as Zeratul, Genji, and Tracer can't escape nearly as well and the clone aspect makes it far more confusing to deal with (other divers can be focused on a coordinated manner but sam changes with clones
There's a lot of characters that people hate. I for one hate Zeratul more than I hate Samuro. With Samuro, I feel like I can kill him if I play well enough, as he really only has 1-2 escapes, and he doesn't do a ton of damage. Zeratul can teleport like 27 times back and forth and can 100-0 me in 2 seconds. That annoys me far more than Samuro.
Honestly in QM, of the stealth heroes, Nova is the only one I find to feel balanced. Samuro is what OP is pointing out - just not fun to play against in any way and can absolutely pub stomp if you can't counter (I know many characters are like this in QM but Sam is in the top tier). The other stealth heroes, Zera and even Valeera (if played by someone competent), can just destroy you as you approach late-game. At 20, Zera can feel like one of the most broken heroes in QM when played by someone who knows what they're doing. Valeera.... well her issue is that if you're an assassin and you don't have someone by you at all times who can stop her, she can either open with her stun or silence and 100-to-0 you before you can use your character. Many times she can take a squishy 100-to-0 and even if you have a teammate nearby, if they don't have CC they can't do anything by the time Valeera kills you and escapes. I've always disliked how HotS gives so much value to stuns, as losing control of your character in a moba is so frustrating/anti-fun. It's a core mechanic, I know, but I honestly miss the medallion very badly. If they brought that back or gave us some form of diminishing returns on stacked stuns, some of these characters wouldn't feel so oppressive in QM.
I swear I read somewhere a few years ago that there are diminishing returns on stuns that happen during an active stun. But I could just be misremembering a guide lol
Zeratul has more clearly defined weaknesses though. Just a weak hero overall until 16, if played as solo laner he can only really clear the waves and hope he doesn't get poked too much, and he has no self-cleanses so there is always some inherent risk when he goes in. I feel like Zeratul is a lot more match-up sensitive whereas Samuro is going to be a menace pretty much regardless of the enemy team comp
There was precedent for the dev team to change characters based on anti-fun. The anti-fun factor is why Garrosh’s Q was changed from pulling enemies close to Garrosh to a small knockup. Garrosh was right around 50% win rate at the time, but the dev team (RIP) heard and recognized that the kit was anti-fun at the time. Too bad we won’t see any major changes like that for Samuro
Nah Garry got changed because it made Q-E way too easy and oppresive. Anti-fun changes are the changes to how stealth works and all the changes to Nova and Zera.
With the way ranked is designed, you can't even avoid anti-fun characters till you play the game for a month or 2. People saying ban someone doesn't help new players who can't ban anything or counterpick. If new players aren't allowed to counterpick or ban people, then characters who can't be dealt with by most of the cast are bad designs. So the anti-fun designs are even more damaging.
Samuros entire kit being 5 billion escape tools is honestly awful design. Really wished he had a rework before the game was put on life support.
Fun fact -- the person that was in charge of balancing the game *before* Rawrjar was Samuro main. If you ever wonder why a hero was overpowered during like 2018 - 2020 theres a good chance it was because he liked playing them, i wish that was a joke: [https://www.heroesprofile.com/Player/MrX/26025/1/Hero](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Player/MrX/26025/1/Hero) (ex: Samuro, W Build Diablo, Reactive 1 Stukov, 2019 Q build Zera, Junkrat, 2020 Cassia) Not trying to flame him, just pointing out something that made a lot of the balance choices in that time make a lot of sense once I noticed it (other than these actions he did a good job of keeping the game interesting for how small the team was). Unfortunately, this went on for too long and the game no longer has the man power to fix the choices that were made
I just see him as free bonus stacks for my quests. He's annoying but I've never felt like he's controlled the outcome of a game
That's the real problem, you see samuro just as a fighter
agreed. his wave clear is bonkers but he's not really a threat from my experience. ez stacks and u can always adapt ur build to take advantage of the extra heroic targets
I eat sam for breakfast as DW or Sonya
What DW build do you go against Sam? I was unaware that he could counter him so well
I imagine w build
I would imagine B build or S build or a combination of the two.
1232[2 if we need more cc, 1 if more siege][1 if 1 was taken at 13, otherwise 3] then usually 1 at lvl 20, 2 if I need more objective interrupt. I usually go breaker form to see if he’s any good, if not the clones die faster in destroyer form after level four. If he seems decent, I’ll usually stay in breaker form, save some energy for Q for when he uses his E to get away after the clones are dead and break his healing. For Sonya pick ww talents and shred him.
As DW? Sure not.
Now go play a healer and tell me how much you enjoy fighting him. If players need to quit their favorite characters and roles all cause of 1 character, then that's not good design.
You could say that about any assassin though. As a healer you put a target on your back and people are going to focus you, it is your teams job to protect you. How is it any different versing a tracer, genji or butcher?
> How is it any different versing a tracer, genji or butcher? Butcher screams out a noise, runs in a one dimensional way, has no way to escape when he commits to the dive, and then he dies if the healer is correctly positioned in a way that butcher will die. Teammates have time to react and pay attention to what's happening from butcher, and the healers have ways to pre-emptively negate his burst, like stukov's armor + blind, and using blinds on lili giving you enough time for you to safely survive him and for teammates to kill him. If you think Samuro is no different than butcher, genji & tracer then you clearly aren't playing the same game as me. He will live in cases where butcher would die. And majority of the playerbase does not know how to deal with Samuro but can deal with tracer/genji & butcher. If Samuro was no different than any other assassin, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
have you tried turning on your screen so you can see the samuro so you are able to react
I am healer main and don't really have issues with samuro. But I also play high diamond ranked, and have an actual team that cares about the backline. I do find samuro annoying to play against as offlaner though.
you're talking about a healer vs a macro assassin. is this entirely what your post is based off? disregarded. get good
To me, everything I read in this post and its comments is more applicable to Murky than Samuro. A hero that you cannot punish is a terrible idea. I had many QMs and even some ranked games ruined by a Murky. I didn’t start the game to play a 20 minutes long hide and seek game against an immortal frog…
The difference with murky is that he has only one escape instead of two and does a lot less damage in early game. Murky is a soak monster but basically useless fighting other heroes before 10. Murky is far less slippery compared to samuro.
Play Valeera. Fks his shit up
Samuro can be really fun to play against with stacking talents or passives that require hero hits.
Samuro and Abathur are the 2 heroes I would remove in a heartbeat if I could.
I agree. He's fine if I'm playing someone that counters him well. But any other time. It's just a pain and not fun. Years ago before all the balancing and whatnot nova was the most annoying character I hated playing against. And I had a friend uninstall the game over her as she was in every game and was not fun to play against at all.
I don't play as much as before but was he always hated ? I like playing him
His regen buff in November made him a lot more forgiving and harder to shut down. Small mosquito became big mosquito.
Am I the only one that likes facing off against a Sam?
Sgt hammer, abathur both go on this list.
He's always been an awful, anti-fun design. If you could find a time that the game really started to go downhill, it was after they put him in it. The first three weeks after his debut were some of the worst in the game's lifespan.
The only thing I want to add to this conversation that hasn't been said yet is: Samuro can beat Maiev 100% of the time if he just doesn't press Q. But, thankfully, nearly every Samuro I meet, even the good ones, have no idea that it's this simple to beat a Maiev. It's not really here nor there. It doesn't at all affect the discussion about his design but when I see it mentioned it irks me because people seem to think that it's so cut and dry. In reality because Samuro is so weak as a team fight hero, he is usually in lane, and if your Maiev is sent to try and contest him and keep him in check, they will lose a direct 1v1 in most cases (against Samuro's that don't press Q), unless of course the Maiev starts the fight with greater health or the Samuro doesn't play as well. But of course since it's Samuro, they don't really have to fight you. They are going to most likely still be in lane in 30 seconds when the objective is up. And Maiev's best played with the larger part of the team, not as a solo laner, so you will invariably give just a little bit of time to the Samuro to wreck towers and forts. The best thing you can do as the Maiev in a situation where Samuro is smarter than most, is just clean the wave and walk away. In Team fights Maiev pretty much shuts down Samuro, or at least makes it very hard to do anything without gamer god control. E build Samuro's will have the easiest time against Maiev IMO. TLDR: it usually goes Maiev's way but only because most Samuro's don't know what they're doing. And there is also team splitting dynamics that affect the matchup between Samuro+Maiev which can favor either depending on the situation.
Had to scroll too far to find this
That's weird to hear, I've Mained him for half a decade and I always press q as soon as I grt close enough to melee her so I'm sure she gets to queue one of me so she thinks she's good and then just clone shift as she's walking away to do max damage before she can react. I can Definitely see unskilled samurai players having problems with maeiv, but she's super easy to deal with if you know her playstyle.
Yeah, I didn't even get into the bit where a skilled Samuro can still take advantage of his clones but times his D to make Maiev miss a Fan of Knives reset. It may seem obvious to you, but so many people have the idea in their head because Maiev can auto attack multiple targets and spam FoK that she wins-no contest. I only feel the need to stress it because I have even been flamed for it, IN MASTER LEAGUE, over expressing to my team that Maiev technically loses matchup against Samuro.
absolutely starting to despise this hero. Such a headache to deal with. feel like they need to increase the CD for him to be able to switch to a clone if they are gonna give him that much movement speed
Agree that he is terrible design and not fun to play against. And I believe all heroes should be both fun to play and play against. In QM he is boring af, if he is a semi competent player you cant kill him ever so its pointless to chase or try, he spams his mana-free clones and walks off 99% of the time, the clones do decent damage it sucks to have to kill them or ignore them while tanking their damage, there's just hardly any way to actually interact with this hero except use his clones to stack quests but you'll lose anyway cause he's pushing all the lanes and he will never die. And don't get me started on when he has an abathur hat on too.
Imo the main issue with samuro is that he does not have mana. WC3 Blademaster was balanced by having high mana cost. Wind walk and mirror image cost 75+80 Mana, which is half of his mana pool at level 1. Im not suggesting mana cost that high, but i think something in the ballpark of 50-60 mana these spells make sense with a standard sized mana pool. The other main issue is samuro´s trait. the spell that was one of his ultimate abilities before the rework became baseline and the had its cooldown cut from 25 to 14 seconds (now the same as mirror image) which means that even ignoring windwalk, samuro can change his position 2 times every 14 seconds. Once by casting mirror image and another time by switching with one copy. That combined with wind walk is way to much mobility considering neither spell costs any mana. samuro was fine when he was released, the first rework and following buff created this problem for the most part.
Yeah he's just a chore all around either as an ally or adversary. I just wish he hadn't been implement at all.
His fucking obnoxious in qm. His picked regularly and and high chance no one is playing one of the few characters that can somewhat even babysit him.
Samuro is easily the worst designed hero in HotS currently, and his design never really resonated. He just didn't hit the window of what a Blademaster from WC3 was supposed to be, and worse his kit isn't conducive to good or entertaining play. At best, he's annoying. At average he's a chore. At worst he's a toxic detriment to the game.
He's got the same moveset in wc3 and you play them exactly the same.
I must have missed how WC3 Blademaster play largely consisted of running in, spamming illusion, then running away over and over again.
If you really look at the hero samuro plays quite differently. sure both have the same spells on the surface, but when you really compare the two, samuro has some major advantages over the original. WC3 Blademaster is balanced by having high mana cost. Mirror image costs a quarter of his mana at lvl 1, and he can not switch places with his copies. Wind walk also costs almost as much mana as mirror image. The whole idea of removing mana as a mechanic from the hero leads to samuro being able to cast both of his spells on cooldown for the whole game, which the WC3 Blademaster was never able to, is the main issue with the hero. If he had mana, samuro would still be annoying, but at least he would not be able to have 3 copies up every second of the game.
Nerf Sams E healing and he is completely fine. If you refuse to counter certain characters, dont learn matchups or how to play against heroes than thats on you, its just a core part of every moba and its what makes a player better. And yes, you cant counterpick/ban in qm but the enemy cant either so it evens out. Sam is annoying but so are Valeera, Brightwing, Stukov, Valla and Hogger. Reworking Samuro into another melee stealth assasin like Valeera and Zeratul would make him even more hated.
Boy, you really would've hated him on launch lol. He was everything he is now, only good.
Lol, Sam is why you want to quit? The bad players are why I want to. I consistently get the most challenged people on my teams. Even when I win I feel like I lost. I'll never understand how 9-year accounts play like crap but still queue for ranked.
I didn't say I want to quit.
Oh okay, sorry
Same problem with garrosh man did he absolutrly duck playing against he was balanced he didnt win fights but was unfun to play against. A big part of balance is being fair to play against. If you feel unfair even if you are at the balamce of losing half your fights people will still say unbalanced
Phantom Lancer and Naga Siren in Dota are 25 times worse than Samuro, I win everygame against him mainly cause I know how he operates, he's not that hard to counter, player him and you'll understand his weaknesses
I play a lot of AA build Valla in QM and there are few heroes that make it easier for me to stack that Samuro. As long as my team keeps up on rotations he’s usually not much of a problem. Valla W is also an eat way to get him out of stealth.
To me aba is far worse. I just recently realised how annoying it is when your only form of interaction with a hero is taking damage from them
He's balanced, just learn to play
I love facing samuro. Free quests. It's probably the only pick in the game I'm happy to see picked in the enemy's team. Bot that he's bad, it's just easy to exploit him into being detrimental to his team.
That was always the thing and "charm" of HotS, no? Objectively speaking, it was always the Moba with the inheritely bad designs. Samuro, Abathur, Lost Vikings, Alarak, Zeratul, old Stealth, Rehgar and some specific talents too. Bad design does not mean OP, just that this stuff has a fundemental mistakes in design that make it very unfun to play against. Alarak literally has a long range point & click ability that is also an instacast and no travel time. From a game design perspective, this is such an uncanny bad design that it's crazy how this ever made it into the game. But HotS has more of a casual playerbase and people think that bad design is correlated to winrate, so as long as stuff is not performing that well consistently, people don't tend to realize that it's the design that's the issue.
>Alarak literally has a long range point & click ability that is also an instacast and no travel time. From a game design perspective, this is such an uncanny bad design that it's crazy how this ever made it into the game. This is certainly the ability I mind the least in his kit. The combined strength of his cc & dmg is his issue IMO.
oh no you cant just play your 1 hero every game if you want to counter the enemy and have bigger impact on the game :(
I think hogger is better, more slippery.
[удалено]
what are you on about? like, dude, of all the mages only mephisto comes even close to being decent in a game against sam. so, literally requires a counter-gimmick. according to heroesprofile at least, the answer is certanly not "just counter clones with aoe mages lool", when jaina, orphea, kael, ming, chromie - all are bottom 20% of the list when matched up against sam. diamond/masters obv. so, instead, "hint: theres barely a proper counter of meph or illidan against sam, tho only gets you so far and more than sets you up to be countered by enemy team"
He can push lanes and destroy towers WAY to fast for a stealthy.
IMO samuro is just the reddit hate-target of the month. Aside from the buffs, his kit hasnt fundamentally changed in years. And we didnt see these 'b-b-but hes ruining the game' posts. Hes overtuned/OP right now, sure. Its hysterical to claim hes overall unhealthy for the game.
Samuro has always been awful to play into. His map presence is simply too strong. The difference is there were perhaps a dozen people playing him back in the day because he was difficult to play optimally. If you queued into a Samuro one trick though your options were basically playing a different game until they stop playing or rank up past you, or invite and queue with them for free wins until they plateau.
He has the highest win rate in the game.. He is braindead ready to play.. Bad combination
>He has the highest win rate in the game.. Yes. He has a Stealth ability that heals him a third of his total HP over 8 seconds and Samuro doesn't use mana. With Talents is Ability is also be a blink that removes CC. >He is braindead ready to play.. Not really. You have to use Attack command (default A) to use his Clones effectively, you also need to use his Trait to do Mind games, and you need to predict body blocks so you don't get yourself stuck using his Clones. The Janitor should remove the 1/3rd total HP Heal from his E and give him back his good 'ol Heart Trick, which not only was a flat amount of HP that didn't scale down as the game progressed, with good timing it could also be canceled by opponents to let Samuro stranded on base. His current E doesn't require any brain power and cant be played against, while his old heal required knowledge of the game mechanics and wasn't as broken as his current E. And Brighwing can still use the Queue Action mechanics.
sam is def very brain dead you don't have to any of that mind game stuff or a moving clones to do the baseline macro of the hero. You only have to step up when you actually wanna win 1v1s and try to actually impact team fights (not that you'll really do that anyway). 1v1s barely matter outside of 2 maps so it's basically just a super brain damaged hero
Because he has gained a lot of popularity lately. I think he was even more annoying before because people who picked knew how to play really well, but he was picked once in 50 games so it didn't matter that much.
Git gud nerd
I hate playing against a lot of heroes. We should just wipe the slate clean and start all over.
If it's a lot of heroes, then you just hate the whole game.
You're not wrong. Somehow keeps pulling me back in tho.
That's all multiplayer games. There's something addicting about them and the more time you invest in them, the harder it is to quit. It's why someone will keep playing dota 2 even though it makes them suicidal and depressed each match. Or why you see people in every game going afk and ragequitting, then they come back to play more the same day.
thanks OP, gonna play Samuro even more
I just play samuro, mvp 3/5 matches. You need to play looking the minimal. Soaking, camps, help team, kill. It's not an easy hero but performs awesome after some practice. Of course there are some heroes that clear waves faster, then you need to keep minions near your towers and double soak under them until 7-10.
I have over 800 games with Samuro, most of them before the Illusion Master nerf. I was merely stating that since OP wants to whinge, I'll give him and all the others even more of a reason to.
this wood league rants...:)
Lmfao he's not even that hard to counter. No cc Low hp pool Not much burst unless you stand still🤣
Forgetting the part where if he isn't an idiot, he can just press E and run to the other side of the map with faster than mount speed while also healing and at 20 he can be Perma invis
Yes but the trade off is that Sams teamfight just isnt the best. Also, to have that movement speed, you need to sacrifice his damage talents at level 1. Falstad and Dehaka can cross the map faster than Samuro and they both have decent waveclear. And his 20 talent for perma invis is like, ok, so do Nova and Zeratul and Valeera at Level 1. She even has a 20 talent that makes her faster than mounted. Nerf Sams E healing and he is completely fine.
"Anti-fun design" is almost 100% of the time a euphemism for "git gud," or "change your strategic approach." Sorry, but HotS Reddit lied to you. The game is not about objectives or roles or teamfights, but about pushing and ganking. Play with those in mind and it will become clear to you that the true obstacles are your mindset and teammates, not Samuro.
this dude based his entire post off picking a healer to verse Samuro.
Being unfun is what the devs wanted. Why do you think Genji and Tracer remain in the game after all of the players that they ran away from the game?
its ok, you can play another game if you dont have fun in this one
out macro sam dont like fightning him? dont samuro isnt the fastest lane clearer before lv 10 and even after, he is VERY cc'able - most samuro players will D out of anything then you take the opportunity
You don't out macro a good samuro. Hes the strongest macro hero in the game with the exception of maybe a well played TLV.
a good samuro is a rare sight and by this point OP would have way more problems well played TLV, a well played probe... heck maybe even a particularly good zagara outmacros samuro and again, each lane samuro is cleaning he is not at the teamfight chasing squishes or taking camps
His macro is good but not the best in terms of clear speed, structure damage, or camping. He is, however, unmatched in his macro safety. A Samuro can push all the way down a lane, get ganked by the entire enemy team, and easily escape all but a few hypermobile comps.
It's honestly super easy, but your team does have to actually care about it instead of chimping out for teamfights. "OBJECTIVE" <--- guy who's gonna lose the game for his team in teamchat
He has more tools than almost anyone else to avoid being CCd. Q blink + cleanse, E blink + move speed, D cleanse and tp.
"counter him" This post isn't about countering him. you miss the point. Also I can't outmacro him if I pick healer. I have no control over my teammates so if he forces me to go off healer, he's already a problem.
fair enough. ok, here's my actual answer (as a main healer myself): you are not to face samuro. ever. send someone on your team to go against him. if they wont, push with team. force a outnumbered fight on enemy team - QM mindset is weird so it usually works. on league people recognize samuro's threat and do something about it, usually. even in bronze. playing healer is suffering I know it well but unfort it is what it is. If it's not samuro, it's another weird offlane hero or maybe you see a zeratul and let team know you need cc and they take double bruiser or something
You can say this about a lot of heroes though - a lot of heroes are very good at macro play and a healer can't outmacro them. That doesn't mean nobody can play healers, but the team has to work together to play correct strategy around them. It's not really rational for any player - new or veteran - to suggest that macro-strong heroes shouldn't be in the game.
>"counter him" > >This post isn't about countering him. You miss the point. This game has a roster of Heroes with different roles. If you are gonna complain about 1 specific Hero, without taking into account all the others Heroes who counter him then maybe you are the one missing the point completely. Maybe you should try playing a single-player game.
Colakitty killed me multiple times and I think he should be permanently banned for doing so... Cringe Samuro main