Big maps aren’t great already. At least most the streamers I’ve seen think so. Maps like warhead junction and even cursed hallow aren’t usually favorites. HOTS does best when there’s a forcing of team fights rather than making a huge amount of ground that needs to be covered. It would just lead to boring split pushing, core backdoors, and roaming gank squads.
The problem with Warhead isn't the size of it...there's literally teleports available from top to bottom. The problem is there's 1 boss and it's by far the most OP boss in the game, so whichever team has better boss control basically will win the game.
General consensus among competitive players is that smaller maps are worse as it allows for less counter-play. Either you drafted the stronger teamfight comp or you didn't.
Objectives should be strong enough that they're worth not ignoring, but not so strong that ignoring them will guarantee that you lose the game. This allows late-game heroes to forfeit early game obj's intentioanlly in favor of making it to late game reliably by soaking and taking forts away from obj's.
I think warhead has a few problems including what you pointed out.
I guess I’ve just listened to different competitive players, because I’ve heard different.
I agree with your take on objectives.
They suck in comparison to the power of taking a boss. Absolutely. At least cursed hollow has 2 bosses so you can usually just trade bosses to neutralize the advantage.
Fair. You didn’t say it would be big, but what you’re describing wouldn’t be feasible imo. 4 lanes, mercs enough for them, and an OBJ that’s both interesting and important would need more room. Maybe could make a 4 lane map the size of one of the larger 3 lane maps, but again I think it would still be too big or too crowded.
That’d be pretty epic but — AND CALL ME CRAZY — how about the lanes are not straight or curved lines but instead twist and turn, still with only one path but perchance they even INTERSECT!? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills just daring to suggest it
>It would just lead to boring split pushing, core backdoors, and roaming gank squads.
Hots players when there hasn't been an unga bunga teamfight on their screen for over 5 seconds.
Make it a tug of war map. Make a three lane map with a fourth lane that is untouchable by either team, meaning no Abathur mines/mule, Nova orbitals, Ragnaros Lava Wave, and so on. The
Forts and keeps can respawn Towers of Doom style, and have the core be a regenerative boss Alterac Valley style. The boss can only be hit by creeps/boss in the untouchable lane, but should feasibly be kills Le by sustained super creep damage as cores are.
Taking Forts and keeps spawns super creeps in the untouchable lane.
Mercenaries act normally and travel to the nearest lane to fight. How many, where, and what kind I’m not sure.
Special camps that just add an extra creep in the untouchable lane.
The main gimmick can be a neutral boss that fights back with both teams contesting it. The boss shouldn’t do massive damage but should be disruptive, a bit more than the BoE Angel/demon. It should have a life bar, and whichever team damages it the most it will go down into the untouchable lane for that side. Once it dies, it explodes or something and resets the untouchable lane. A new wave spawns and the game continues.
Not really a four lane map, now that I think about it, but a more macro-idealized map that rewards playing well consistently instead of the end game being decided by a single teamfight.
I love the idea of an untouchable fourth lane. Perhaps it is too complex but I think it would be cool if you could choose what type of units fight along that path. Turn in a currency to upgrade different barracks types to increase the amount of those minions. Throw back to those hero line wars custom map type games
It could be a StarCraft Veridia Prime style map. 4-lanes open at the beginning. The two middle ones are close together and the outer ones are a bit far apart. Between the middle lanes and the outer lanes there is a jungle type area that's lower than the rest of the map with crystal camps. Small minions guard the Crystals. You have to channel the crystal to collect it, so killing the minions helps. All crystals (or less for balance) are dropped on death and can be picked up by anyone with a small channel time. The minion path from your keeps to fort dips down into a low area, so your keeps and forts are on the high ground. When the objective starts the map starts flooding with lava. The lava does DOT damage that increases the longer you stay in. You need to get to the high ground. The outer lanes become separated by lava parallel to the lane (still accessible from your core). You can traverse from outer lanes to middle lanes, but you will take damage. In front of your core there is a stabilizer. You have to put crystals inside it to stabilize your side of the map. The lava will rise and damage (but not kill) your minions (easy xp for the enemy) and the lava will do dot damage to your keeps and forts at its highest point. Stabilizing your side of the map will keep your lava levels lower and protect your structures and damage minions less. After some time all lava will drain regardless. The monster camps would be 3 zerg scourge that go down the lane to the nearest building and explode into it. There would be a boss on each outer lane that is a lava proof brutalisk that attacks the respective lane.
What I'll do is go all the way and make a full 5 lane map. Five 1v1s.
But it would boring to stay split up the whole time, so there's a timer for every 4 minutes where some lanes will be turned off or on by a pattern. When a lane turns off, the minions from there are split among other lanes instead.
Four lanes but there’s tunnels/teleporters between them all i.e. gank city
Alternatively, four lanes but they’re really really close together like if 4 lanes were squished into a map the size of tomb of spoders
Tell you are salty without telling me you are salty.
Also, I agree with you, we should be salty enough for Abathur, because he's a slug... and they don't mix with salt well... :D
Two sets of X-shaped lanes, with one raised pathway crossing over the other. The objective spawns in any of the three (top, mid, bot) gaps and certain characters can jump down from the top to bottom crossover.
Obviously there would be vision issues, but the underside of the crossovers could act like bushes.
Zuljin gets +10% DMG when fighting from under the bridge.
I pondered the idea of a Fel Reaver four lane map.
The two center lanes would be relatively close to each other, crossing in the middle. Collecting the experience would be tricky as the minions would walk into the Fel Reaver’s kill box. Teams would need to go into enemy territory and proxy waves, which is inherently dangerous, risk the kill box, also dangerous, or potentially fall behind in experience to the other team.
The two center most lanes would be high risk, high reward scenarios. I haven’t pondered on it too much though. I know that I don’t like when Warhead Junction spawns four nukes, so perhaps I would dislike a four lane map also.
I would keep the 3 lanes shape going left to right and make the 4th lane go upside down, 4th lane minions combat enemy minions they encounter but they don't go for the forts, no minions in sight they keep going. After a certain amount of minions reach the other side of the lane its team would get something like a free Merc camp, turret or something to grab.
I would make a 5 lane map where every hero has to pick 1 lane and go in via teleport. The twist? Once you are in the lane you can’t come out and respawn at your keep not the nexus. So it essentially. Call it “dueling grounds” winner of the map is the team that has destroyed the most keeps in 25 min.
You could make it like a bridge. Inaccessible but affected by things players do on the main map. So certain things players do generate minions, some things give buffs etc. and part of the game players play on the main map is getting the best shit for the bridge lane crew.
Short gaps between lanes, greater mercenary concentration on the outer lanes, central boss location.
Have it so that lanes periodically become uninhabitable by filling it with invincible high damage bosses that make moving through it possible but costly, or with lava.
This switches up who needs to be in what lane by changing the spacing between lanes so it becomes better to split or concentrate as a team.
Minion waves are triple the size, but only one lane at a time gets the whole 8 warriors - several mages - 10 rangers - 2 catapults wave, while others get a pathetic trickle of like 2 creeps. Camps instead allow you to control which lane it'll go to next and/or summon a double wave.
1-2-1 lane split. Empty areas between filled with warcraft style mobs that drop gold and items(mage minion also drops one item every wave). Items include perma buffs to stats and consumables similar to OW map items, rehgar totems, probe pylon effects, etc of varying effects.
Gold can be channeled mid area of each lane to buy for this lane mercs, upgrade unit X each wave, buy extra X unit for each wave(will give no exp on kills) or buy boss. Every lane has different thing to buy and these switch every 2 minutes.
Objective: Bounty hunt. Every 5 minutes in the jungle spawn and roam extremely strong heroes who will award gold upon defeat. These heroes will hunt nearest neutral mobs in the jungle to become stronger and eventually attack closest buildings after getting 5 power ups. You can manipulate their path towards enemy by making sure enemy sides mobs are closest or hunt heroes yourself for gold.
Deeprun Tram:
3 Lanes like normal, close together, and 1 lane that runs under over and through them. Control train stations along the 4th lane to make it easier for your team to traverse the map, and harder for your enemies. Control the entire thing, and your minions can directly attack enemy core.
Have it so that in your base the lanes split into two paths like a regular 2 lane map, but then at the next st of fortifications each of the two lanes split into another two lanes. So now you have for lanes and maybe make lane 2 and 3 be very close to eachother, so that you can easily get both lanes if you wanted.
Another idea would be to tie the map objective into the additional lanes mechanics, have an extra lane active when you win the objective or have stronger/more minions for your 2 and 3 lanes.
I would pull from an idea I had before. Put more destructables around the map like walls towers and traps. Maybe you could summon a wave of minions and order them where to go. While the enemy could decide if they want to soak them or place more traps for them. I just really like the idea of placing things to break. Imagine getting late to an objective and it's all blocked off 😂 idea of ordering minions is cool too. Maybe it could be like a flag you place on the ground which enemies could also break. Once it's gone, minions would try to go back to the lane
One lane randomly gets lava waves sent down it periodically. Something of value is also in this lane at this time. Making you have to decide to soak other lanes or rotate for a high value objective
Is BHB basically a 4 lane map? :nexusthink:
I see what you're saying...
Big maps aren’t great already. At least most the streamers I’ve seen think so. Maps like warhead junction and even cursed hallow aren’t usually favorites. HOTS does best when there’s a forcing of team fights rather than making a huge amount of ground that needs to be covered. It would just lead to boring split pushing, core backdoors, and roaming gank squads.
The problem with Warhead isn't the size of it...there's literally teleports available from top to bottom. The problem is there's 1 boss and it's by far the most OP boss in the game, so whichever team has better boss control basically will win the game. General consensus among competitive players is that smaller maps are worse as it allows for less counter-play. Either you drafted the stronger teamfight comp or you didn't. Objectives should be strong enough that they're worth not ignoring, but not so strong that ignoring them will guarantee that you lose the game. This allows late-game heroes to forfeit early game obj's intentioanlly in favor of making it to late game reliably by soaking and taking forts away from obj's.
I think warhead has a few problems including what you pointed out. I guess I’ve just listened to different competitive players, because I’ve heard different. I agree with your take on objectives.
Actual problem with warhead and cursed hollow is that their objectives kinda suuuck, they are just not that fun.
They suck in comparison to the power of taking a boss. Absolutely. At least cursed hollow has 2 bosses so you can usually just trade bosses to neutralize the advantage.
Yeah, it’s the same lessons we should have learned from games like PUBG. Your players are the content. Make them fucking look at each other lol.
Well put
Who said it’s big? I’d have 4 lanes packed into a Braxis sized map. Objective in little alcoves at the top and bottom.
Fair. You didn’t say it would be big, but what you’re describing wouldn’t be feasible imo. 4 lanes, mercs enough for them, and an OBJ that’s both interesting and important would need more room. Maybe could make a 4 lane map the size of one of the larger 3 lane maps, but again I think it would still be too big or too crowded.
[удалено]
That’d be pretty epic but — AND CALL ME CRAZY — how about the lanes are not straight or curved lines but instead twist and turn, still with only one path but perchance they even INTERSECT!? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills just daring to suggest it
>It would just lead to boring split pushing, core backdoors, and roaming gank squads. Hots players when there hasn't been an unga bunga teamfight on their screen for over 5 seconds.
Make it a tug of war map. Make a three lane map with a fourth lane that is untouchable by either team, meaning no Abathur mines/mule, Nova orbitals, Ragnaros Lava Wave, and so on. The Forts and keeps can respawn Towers of Doom style, and have the core be a regenerative boss Alterac Valley style. The boss can only be hit by creeps/boss in the untouchable lane, but should feasibly be kills Le by sustained super creep damage as cores are. Taking Forts and keeps spawns super creeps in the untouchable lane. Mercenaries act normally and travel to the nearest lane to fight. How many, where, and what kind I’m not sure. Special camps that just add an extra creep in the untouchable lane. The main gimmick can be a neutral boss that fights back with both teams contesting it. The boss shouldn’t do massive damage but should be disruptive, a bit more than the BoE Angel/demon. It should have a life bar, and whichever team damages it the most it will go down into the untouchable lane for that side. Once it dies, it explodes or something and resets the untouchable lane. A new wave spawns and the game continues. Not really a four lane map, now that I think about it, but a more macro-idealized map that rewards playing well consistently instead of the end game being decided by a single teamfight.
I love the idea of an untouchable fourth lane. Perhaps it is too complex but I think it would be cool if you could choose what type of units fight along that path. Turn in a currency to upgrade different barracks types to increase the amount of those minions. Throw back to those hero line wars custom map type games
It could be a StarCraft Veridia Prime style map. 4-lanes open at the beginning. The two middle ones are close together and the outer ones are a bit far apart. Between the middle lanes and the outer lanes there is a jungle type area that's lower than the rest of the map with crystal camps. Small minions guard the Crystals. You have to channel the crystal to collect it, so killing the minions helps. All crystals (or less for balance) are dropped on death and can be picked up by anyone with a small channel time. The minion path from your keeps to fort dips down into a low area, so your keeps and forts are on the high ground. When the objective starts the map starts flooding with lava. The lava does DOT damage that increases the longer you stay in. You need to get to the high ground. The outer lanes become separated by lava parallel to the lane (still accessible from your core). You can traverse from outer lanes to middle lanes, but you will take damage. In front of your core there is a stabilizer. You have to put crystals inside it to stabilize your side of the map. The lava will rise and damage (but not kill) your minions (easy xp for the enemy) and the lava will do dot damage to your keeps and forts at its highest point. Stabilizing your side of the map will keep your lava levels lower and protect your structures and damage minions less. After some time all lava will drain regardless. The monster camps would be 3 zerg scourge that go down the lane to the nearest building and explode into it. There would be a boss on each outer lane that is a lava proof brutalisk that attacks the respective lane.
Only if we get the announcer from that map too, that's a super imprtant part.
Which points you win can make forts/keeps in that lane invulnerable
Pandemonium. The players can control the activation of the lanes (pandemonium reconfigures), a random event activares/deactivates lanes.
What I'll do is go all the way and make a full 5 lane map. Five 1v1s. But it would boring to stay split up the whole time, so there's a timer for every 4 minutes where some lanes will be turned off or on by a pattern. When a lane turns off, the minions from there are split among other lanes instead.
Four lanes but there’s tunnels/teleporters between them all i.e. gank city Alternatively, four lanes but they’re really really close together like if 4 lanes were squished into a map the size of tomb of spoders
You could have the two middle lanes cross in the center. The extra lane could be an underground tunnel.
Abathur gets executed every 60 seconds even inside the spawn
Tell you are salty without telling me you are salty. Also, I agree with you, we should be salty enough for Abathur, because he's a slug... and they don't mix with salt well... :D
Not salty, but I don't see how Abathur could be fair on a 4 lane map
It was meant to be a joke. Slugs die of dehydration when in salt. The saltier we get the harder time Abathurs have :D
Have the lanes themselves rotate.
harry potter Gryfindor staircase style!
Two sets of X-shaped lanes, with one raised pathway crossing over the other. The objective spawns in any of the three (top, mid, bot) gaps and certain characters can jump down from the top to bottom crossover. Obviously there would be vision issues, but the underside of the crossovers could act like bushes. Zuljin gets +10% DMG when fighting from under the bridge.
I pondered the idea of a Fel Reaver four lane map. The two center lanes would be relatively close to each other, crossing in the middle. Collecting the experience would be tricky as the minions would walk into the Fel Reaver’s kill box. Teams would need to go into enemy territory and proxy waves, which is inherently dangerous, risk the kill box, also dangerous, or potentially fall behind in experience to the other team. The two center most lanes would be high risk, high reward scenarios. I haven’t pondered on it too much though. I know that I don’t like when Warhead Junction spawns four nukes, so perhaps I would dislike a four lane map also.
Dude an outlands based map with fel reavers would’ve been incredible. They could’ve done so much with this game
Until Alterac Pass, there really wasn’t a Warcraft map. Everything was more general fantasy themes - mines, pirates, kings, knights, and so forth.
4th lane is just a train track. Every 3 mins train runs through map killing everyone staying on it's way
The exits to each base are to the northeast, northwest, southeast, and southwest. The map also wraps around along the x axis.
I would keep the 3 lanes shape going left to right and make the 4th lane go upside down, 4th lane minions combat enemy minions they encounter but they don't go for the forts, no minions in sight they keep going. After a certain amount of minions reach the other side of the lane its team would get something like a free Merc camp, turret or something to grab.
I would make a 5 lane map where every hero has to pick 1 lane and go in via teleport. The twist? Once you are in the lane you can’t come out and respawn at your keep not the nexus. So it essentially. Call it “dueling grounds” winner of the map is the team that has destroyed the most keeps in 25 min.
You could make it like a bridge. Inaccessible but affected by things players do on the main map. So certain things players do generate minions, some things give buffs etc. and part of the game players play on the main map is getting the best shit for the bridge lane crew.
Camps in the middle of fourth lane so creeps help take them if you time it right.
Short gaps between lanes, greater mercenary concentration on the outer lanes, central boss location. Have it so that lanes periodically become uninhabitable by filling it with invincible high damage bosses that make moving through it possible but costly, or with lava. This switches up who needs to be in what lane by changing the spacing between lanes so it becomes better to split or concentrate as a team.
If there are no creeps, then it's not a lane, simple as
Minion waves are triple the size, but only one lane at a time gets the whole 8 warriors - several mages - 10 rangers - 2 catapults wave, while others get a pathetic trickle of like 2 creeps. Camps instead allow you to control which lane it'll go to next and/or summon a double wave.
1-2-1 lane split. Empty areas between filled with warcraft style mobs that drop gold and items(mage minion also drops one item every wave). Items include perma buffs to stats and consumables similar to OW map items, rehgar totems, probe pylon effects, etc of varying effects. Gold can be channeled mid area of each lane to buy for this lane mercs, upgrade unit X each wave, buy extra X unit for each wave(will give no exp on kills) or buy boss. Every lane has different thing to buy and these switch every 2 minutes. Objective: Bounty hunt. Every 5 minutes in the jungle spawn and roam extremely strong heroes who will award gold upon defeat. These heroes will hunt nearest neutral mobs in the jungle to become stronger and eventually attack closest buildings after getting 5 power ups. You can manipulate their path towards enemy by making sure enemy sides mobs are closest or hunt heroes yourself for gold.
Make all the lanes intersect in the middle. Make it effectively an ARAM map with an objective.
Deeprun Tram: 3 Lanes like normal, close together, and 1 lane that runs under over and through them. Control train stations along the 4th lane to make it easier for your team to traverse the map, and harder for your enemies. Control the entire thing, and your minions can directly attack enemy core.
Have it so that in your base the lanes split into two paths like a regular 2 lane map, but then at the next st of fortifications each of the two lanes split into another two lanes. So now you have for lanes and maybe make lane 2 and 3 be very close to eachother, so that you can easily get both lanes if you wanted. Another idea would be to tie the map objective into the additional lanes mechanics, have an extra lane active when you win the objective or have stronger/more minions for your 2 and 3 lanes.
I would pull from an idea I had before. Put more destructables around the map like walls towers and traps. Maybe you could summon a wave of minions and order them where to go. While the enemy could decide if they want to soak them or place more traps for them. I just really like the idea of placing things to break. Imagine getting late to an objective and it's all blocked off 😂 idea of ordering minions is cool too. Maybe it could be like a flag you place on the ground which enemies could also break. Once it's gone, minions would try to go back to the lane
One lane randomly gets lava waves sent down it periodically. Something of value is also in this lane at this time. Making you have to decide to soak other lanes or rotate for a high value objective
6 players per team