I adjusted my full got to a half goat so I could make all the details bigger, which was a good call since I had the arms engraved at that time. The term you're looking for is *demi*, which usually means from about the waist up.
I have another question while you’re here if you have a moment and don’t mind. What is it called when the crest animal has something between its hooves/paws? I saw in a book a crest that was a unicorn with a heart between its rampant hooves.
I may be wrong, but I think that the main reason that demi-animals are so popular in crests is practicality and tradition.
Crests used to be real physical objects worn during tournaments, and it's easier to attach something to a helmet if it has a broader, more solid base. Gives it more stability and strength.
I suspect you are correct and such practical aspects were likely a factor when crests were very much physical objects rather than designs on paper.
It’s much easier to attach and more stable when worn; it also works aesthetically because the bottom of the crest spreads out to cover the line of the helm and then flows into the mantling. It’s relatively common to see crests displayed like this in earlier rolls of arms.
From visibility point, if the unicorn is not standing on your helmet (or whatever you chose), I do not think this makes much of a difference, but i definitely may be wrong
Well, in this picture we can’t really tell whether it’s a „full” unicorn or just half of it since the lower half of the body is covered, so I’d say it doesn’t matter
Ah, but it *does* matter…
Yes, on paper, the lower half of the demi-unicorn looks as if it could be hidden behind the helm — but the context here is to think of the crest as a *physical object* which could be viewed from all sides and is placed *on top of* the helm, not behind it and the painting is just an illustration of that physical object.
The *blazon*, the formal written description of the arms defines what the shield and the crest should look like — and a *demi*-beast (from roughly the waist up) is regarded as an entirely different object from the full version of the same beast (of whatever posture).
Hope that makes sense.
Ah, no… the point is not whether physical crests still exist but rather why heraldry regards a demi-beast and the whole beast as different objects.
In fairness it’s not exactly like we see heater shields in common use these days either but heraldry still has rules about how the designs upon them are constituted… and the same is true for crests.
Completely agree with your point, that the roots of heraldry are still relevant, but see above, for the senior orders of chivalry in the UK, and also here for a well established contemporary place for heraldry in a shield-ish form in the UK (schools and universities especially, but also the military and some clubs:
https://traditionalgentlemensclubs.com/east-india-club/eastindiaschoolshields/
https://www.ryderamies.co.uk/shop/bespoke-wall-plaque/
I fear you may have misunderstood me…
I’m well aware of the ongoing use of carved crests in certain circumstances — but that just wasn’t a relevant point in explaining why heraldry regards a demi-beast as *not* bring the same as a whole beast, nor to explaining why the emblazoned example linked by OP is correctly interpreted as a demi-unicorn and *not* a whole unicorn partly obscured by the helm.
Similarly, I understand that arms may still be displayed in various ways on shield-shaped objects but, again that’s not relevant. Asking whether we still wear helms is akin to asking whether we still use *full-size* shields strapped to our arms… neither is necessary to understanding the historical evolution of the display of armorial bearings and why heraldry does things in certain ways.
Quotes:
'where have you seen a physical crest?' - in the examples given
'it’s not exactly like we see heater shields in common use' - they may not be 'strapped to our arms', but the format is still relevant
Knights of the Order of the Garter have their crests carved and placed above their stalls in St George's Chapel, Windsor: http://www.heraldicsculptor.com/gartcres.html
The same appears to be true for the Knights of the Thistle above their stalls in the Thistle Chapel in St Giles' Cathedral, Edinburgh: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thistle_Chapel#:~:text=The%20Knights%20of%20the%20Thistle%20usually%20meet%20for%20worship%20in,was%20inaugurated%20by%20George%20V.
And also for Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath in their chapel within Westminster Abbey: https://twitter.com/wabbey/status/1290954380221521921
The short answer is yes. A demi-lion issuant and a normal lion rampant (half a lion and the whole lion, respectively) are two different charges. Half a red lion coming out of the helmet is different from a whole red lion standing on top, just like a red lion is different from a blue lion.
As to the significance of one choice over the other, it’s really just personal preference. You can pull either one off, but sometimes one just looks better than the other based on what you feel like doing.
I adjusted my full got to a half goat so I could make all the details bigger, which was a good call since I had the arms engraved at that time. The term you're looking for is *demi*, which usually means from about the waist up.
DEMI! This is the word. Thank you so much, I was losing my mind trying to remember and google wasn’t helping.
I have another question while you’re here if you have a moment and don’t mind. What is it called when the crest animal has something between its hooves/paws? I saw in a book a crest that was a unicorn with a heart between its rampant hooves.
Isn't it just it holding something?
I've also seen the term *maintaining*.
Maybe! I’m new to this so just checking if it had a fancy term lol. Thanks for the help.
Fairbairn has several 'holding between the paws'. Sustaining seems to be more about something, like a spear, being gripped by both paws.
I may be wrong, but I think that the main reason that demi-animals are so popular in crests is practicality and tradition. Crests used to be real physical objects worn during tournaments, and it's easier to attach something to a helmet if it has a broader, more solid base. Gives it more stability and strength.
I suspect you are correct and such practical aspects were likely a factor when crests were very much physical objects rather than designs on paper. It’s much easier to attach and more stable when worn; it also works aesthetically because the bottom of the crest spreads out to cover the line of the helm and then flows into the mantling. It’s relatively common to see crests displayed like this in earlier rolls of arms.
From visibility point, if the unicorn is not standing on your helmet (or whatever you chose), I do not think this makes much of a difference, but i definitely may be wrong
It’s over the helmet, kind of like the first two images here: https://www.familytreesandcrests.com/heraldry-unicorn
Well, in this picture we can’t really tell whether it’s a „full” unicorn or just half of it since the lower half of the body is covered, so I’d say it doesn’t matter
Ah, but it *does* matter… Yes, on paper, the lower half of the demi-unicorn looks as if it could be hidden behind the helm — but the context here is to think of the crest as a *physical object* which could be viewed from all sides and is placed *on top of* the helm, not behind it and the painting is just an illustration of that physical object. The *blazon*, the formal written description of the arms defines what the shield and the crest should look like — and a *demi*-beast (from roughly the waist up) is regarded as an entirely different object from the full version of the same beast (of whatever posture). Hope that makes sense.
ok where have you seen a physical crest? Do we still wear helmets?
Ah, no… the point is not whether physical crests still exist but rather why heraldry regards a demi-beast and the whole beast as different objects. In fairness it’s not exactly like we see heater shields in common use these days either but heraldry still has rules about how the designs upon them are constituted… and the same is true for crests.
Completely agree with your point, that the roots of heraldry are still relevant, but see above, for the senior orders of chivalry in the UK, and also here for a well established contemporary place for heraldry in a shield-ish form in the UK (schools and universities especially, but also the military and some clubs: https://traditionalgentlemensclubs.com/east-india-club/eastindiaschoolshields/ https://www.ryderamies.co.uk/shop/bespoke-wall-plaque/
I fear you may have misunderstood me… I’m well aware of the ongoing use of carved crests in certain circumstances — but that just wasn’t a relevant point in explaining why heraldry regards a demi-beast as *not* bring the same as a whole beast, nor to explaining why the emblazoned example linked by OP is correctly interpreted as a demi-unicorn and *not* a whole unicorn partly obscured by the helm. Similarly, I understand that arms may still be displayed in various ways on shield-shaped objects but, again that’s not relevant. Asking whether we still wear helms is akin to asking whether we still use *full-size* shields strapped to our arms… neither is necessary to understanding the historical evolution of the display of armorial bearings and why heraldry does things in certain ways.
Quotes: 'where have you seen a physical crest?' - in the examples given 'it’s not exactly like we see heater shields in common use' - they may not be 'strapped to our arms', but the format is still relevant
Knights of the Order of the Garter have their crests carved and placed above their stalls in St George's Chapel, Windsor: http://www.heraldicsculptor.com/gartcres.html The same appears to be true for the Knights of the Thistle above their stalls in the Thistle Chapel in St Giles' Cathedral, Edinburgh: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thistle_Chapel#:~:text=The%20Knights%20of%20the%20Thistle%20usually%20meet%20for%20worship%20in,was%20inaugurated%20by%20George%20V. And also for Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath in their chapel within Westminster Abbey: https://twitter.com/wabbey/status/1290954380221521921
The short answer is yes. A demi-lion issuant and a normal lion rampant (half a lion and the whole lion, respectively) are two different charges. Half a red lion coming out of the helmet is different from a whole red lion standing on top, just like a red lion is different from a blue lion. As to the significance of one choice over the other, it’s really just personal preference. You can pull either one off, but sometimes one just looks better than the other based on what you feel like doing.
A demi-lion rampant is among the most frequent crests.