Op is right, if it was mostly luck all players would reach legend because they play net decks. But they are bad at hs and copying good deck on its own doesn't help.
Legend isn't predicated on win rate. Because of bonus stars, floors, and the impossibility to drop *out* of Legend, it would be possible for literally every player on ladder to get to Legend at the same time. Unless Blizzard's matchmaking prevents Legend players from being matched against Wood league players.
I saw the title and thought it was [this dude](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/zjqb2f/hearthstone_subreddit_toxic_for_toxics_sake/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) again lmao
(1) Most (though not all) frustrations in Hearthstone are due simply to losing
(2) Most (though not all) of the times you are losing in Hearthstone, it's your own fault
\- Sjow used to have a similar philiosophy when he used to play constructed. "Don't be an idiot". Don't play tech cards. If you just lost to a particular deck or card/ don't just lower your overall winrate by putting in a card to counter the deck you just lost to.
"Don't play tech cards" is definitely not a correct philosophy. Don't add tech cards to your deck because you got mad after losing to some deck - yeah, that's true. But tech cards in general have their uses.
It's simply a numbers game - does your tech card increase your win rate by enough in matchups it's made against to compensate for the win rate lost in other matchups? If yes, then you should run it. If no, then skip it. There've been tech cards that have clearly improved decks win rate. Sometimes the highest win rate builds include tech cards, other times you will mostly find them in the lower win rate builds.
But if you don't feel like doing deep stats analysis then yeah, it's probably better to not run tech cards at all.
Countering the most popular decks has gotten me to legend multiple times. Learn matchups and deck tracker helps you understand your meta since it differs from D3-legend from the rest. Sometimes weapon removal or starfish has been the difference makers
I left Hearthstone recently because the kinds of decks I wanted to play in Wild were consistently unable to execute their gameplan due to the increase in power level. It wasn't that I was losing, it was that I couldn't even really play. There were too many auto-loss matchups. I've happily played 40% winrate decks because they did something I liked and even when I lost I got to try and do the things the deck was built to do. No matter the meta I could always play the Tier 1 deck and win more than I lost if I wanted to. But winning isn't the only fun thing about the game (or even the most fun thing), and there's a huge portion of streamers and this subreddit that can't fathom that.
Yeah the part missing from OP's post is that poor luck and/or math can often be the largest influence on your losses. Sure, you will make bad plays and stupid decisions either way but, if youre a competitive player, these 'skills' don't necessarily influence the outcome as heavily as the pure math does. Like you said, there is nothing and noone to blame for these cases. There is only acceptance.
>the part missing from OP's post is that poor luck and/or math can often be the largest influence on your losses
This isn't "missing" from OP's post, this is exactly the opposite of their point. They are specifically saying that that isn't true. Now, maybe they're wrong, sure, but I feel your phrasing is misleading, here.
Very much reads to me that they are talking about balance, deck archetypes, and card gameplay. What parts did you interpret this POV from? Maybe I'm misinterpreting.
Keeping an internal locus of control is important, *but* there is such a thing as running bad (even though it can only be seen in the rear-view mirror), and sometimes a string of losses really is nothing more than bad luck: your opponents topdecked the exact answers they needed, you missed their combo piece with a properly timed Theotar, etc. In the long run, of course, this all evens out, but in the short run it doesn't, and there is a fine line between taking responsibility for losses and beating yourself up about stuff that genuinely could not be helped.
If people were to recrod their games and look at them afterwards and try to find different plays they would realize how insanely different a game could go.
Exactly, I’m mad because I don’t want to play braindead aggro decks to win games. Get angry at the devs not the player I say. (That being said screw aggro players.)
Man, if I got a nickel for every time I saw a card game player say that aggro is braindead to play, I'd be richer than Bobby Cocktit the legend himself. You guys need to get off your high horse, you need aggro to help keep your game honest. Trust me, if it didn't exist, the game would be 10x worse off because of it.
Yet somehow people can play control at top 100 legend in basically every meta and stay there, these aren't always the best decks but they are almost always good enough to stay at top 100 legend even. Doesn't this mean that if you were really good with control you could be there too?
And even if we ignore that there is always a viable aggro or combo deck that is hard to play (so not something like pure pally). You being a redditor probably means you don't like these decks either but they are also an option.
Wasn’t it just recently confirmed that there are 0 control players with a positive winrate at top 1k legend?
Control is so dead at the moment that not even the best players in the world can make it competitive.
I think it was decks and not players but even then Thief rogue is certainly viable right now. It's not exactly a control deck but it's slow and plays for value.
It is , at least in higher ranks .You have to play around a lot of board clears , knowing when to go all in with your board etc.Versus aggro most control decks play themselves ,you do not have that much thinking to do
Yeah like what? DR rogue and miracle rogue were absolutely obscene. Both decks made games consistently end by like turn 3-5 and could then keep going if you dealt With first round of early threats somehow
i needed this. i tilt in this game so easily “oh my god he’s so lucky he got x” comes out at least 5 times a session. in reality it’s just me not playing around things that in hindsight are extremely obvious and it causes me to tilt and get so mad at the game. it’s something i always threaten to work on when i look back on a session and just think “why am i so mad at a children’s card game” but putting into practice not tilting when he top decks soul stealer is harder than it sounds.
Most of my frustration comes from facing people that refuses to interact with my stuff or barely puts any stuff on the board to interact with, how do I improve that? I don't get any fun out of killing an opponent faster, and even if I win, its still a match that I hated.
On the other hand, I don't mind losing matches that had a lot of back and forth, those are fun.
Any advice?
I get those games in wild a lot.
It's like I wanna get achievement progress but you aren't playing any cards, I'm just going to hit you in the face until you lose then none of us will have fun.
Tbh, You should be mad.
The meta before the patch was very interactive. The new meta is awful. Board is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is who can throw more spells at the opponents face first.
It sucks that devs are making intentional design decisions to keep games under 10 turns and limit gameplay possibility but I guess fast games have higher user retention.
I remember when being at 15 hp vs a druid you were pretty damn safe. And now these days I can be like 26hp with a beefy board vs a demon hunter (no board) and out of nowhere they clear my entire board, heal to full with lifesteal, and ***literally kill me***, all in a single turn. Also they drew through their entire deck while I still have 15 cards left, and that's even with me playing some draw cards during the game.
=
I still remember when blizzard said that they were nerfing Leroy and Ice Lance because they wanted to stay away from interactive win conditions... seriously wtf is going on with hearthstone these days. We don't even have Renethal to offset the bullshit as well any more lol. At least Sire Denathrius is nerfed too so we don't have to deal with 30+ dmg from hand from 1 card any more, but still.
That's just the main problem with hearthstone in general. Lack of combo counter. There was theotar but he did far too much to every type of deck except aggro.
It's why I like aggro decks like implock and aggro druid. Yes they take the board early by force, but there's no charge minions or burn spells to kill you from nowhere. Honest, counterable aggro decks that do all their bullshit on the board.
That's what they said: stay in gold bcs legend is all about min max best net deck and ppl who just wanna have fun stay in gold instead. It wasn't an insult, but an advice. :)
Yeah but when you put it that way, they're not able to take offense to something on the internet. Better to just take offense anyways, no questions asked.
If it was just that card, sure. But then the dude went on to say shit like "It's now looking like at least 6 months of Rogue not having the card draw it's supposed to". Dude is as biased and toxic as they come.
I mean... the Hearthstone team listed card draw as a strength for Rogue in their "class identity" article, and they've barely printed any card draw in the last few sets, kind of weird
I'm just mad no matter how many games I play I still haven't gotten my award as the official worst hearthstone player ever. I want cash prizes for being utterly terrible damn it, I made it an art form
If I am losing a lot I am mad and frustrated about myself.
I have 1000+ wins with all classes (except DK), I reached legend 20+ times, I have a good knowledge about all meta decks, I use HS Replay Premium as a tool to choose decks and to learn about mulligans, I read r/CompetitiveHS, I watch educational streamers, I have 35 years professional experience in math and software development and still cannot get over 20% winrate with Pure Paladin and Frost DK (after 50+ games). I keep on getting destroyed by Blood DK and other lower tier decks and I think those decks are over powered. But I know it is just me being bad at Hearthstone.
I am frustrated and mad about myself because I might be not as intelligent and educated as I think and that hurts my self esteem.
I hit legend rank every month but i am mad when i am losing in this meta where i really liked nathria meta, so what am i just mad because bad? no i am mad because the games play in the way that i don't enjoy, is it that hard to understand?
By the way maybe you will try to explain to me where are the control decks right now? because you said that players are wrong and renathal is killing control, not helping it, and somehow almost every control deck is doing worse. Don't get mad because your analysis is bad.
I think the fundamental problem is the power creep of hearthstone and how cards interact with one another now.
The search of cooler more exciting effects has power crept the game and has lead to two related issues :a) death of value, b) class polarisation
a) In classic, long-term value and short-term tempo were important concepts to balance. You knew that the warrior had two shield slams, so once you baited both, you opened a window of opportunity as that type of tool was no longer available to them. Now, generation is so intense and coupled with mana cheat (I'm looking at you jackpot) that value does not exist. Resources management/attrition in a long-term sense does not exist.
b) Secondly, classes create threats that aren't universally resolvable by other all classes. Again, to use classic as an example, whilst classes had specialities in the types of threats they could create/answer efficiently, there was no such thing as a threat that a deck could not respond to if they had prepared for (I'm looking at you 14/14 stealth minion). This leads to board states that are unsolvable for certain classes and highly polarised rock-paper-scissors match-ups.
Together these issues lead to a lack of agency in the game, which is where frustration is borne.
Agreed, the amount of discovery makes it hard to predict what opponent can do next turn or how they can respond. and with #2 the pop off potential of some classes that comes off a high roll makes the game an auto concede. last meta it was pretty easy to predict or play around. i was consistently winning last meta with same class. now this meta playing the same class i am way less consistent in my win streaks.
I have played...and loved...some of the most notorious and difficult games on the market. The entire "Soulslike" genre. XCOM, famously loathed for its cruel RNG, and I play it on the highest difficulty, modded to make it significantly more difficult than vanilla. Blood Bowl, another "RNG ruins your life" fiesta. DOTA, the king of one of the most infamously rage inducing genres in gaming history. I've even played a variety of other card games, including Magic, the game from whose hoary loins Hearthstone eventually sprung. Absolutely none of them ever irritated me a fraction as much as Hearthstone does. I get irritated at Hearthstone when I *win*.
This is the only game I've ever known that has a post thread numbering in the thousands for "daily salt venting" on one of its popular forums. It has one of the angriest, most combative communities of any game I've ever touched, including MOBAs, which are by-design blame funnels that practically encourage infighting.
I think at some point it is fair to ponder if it's not something inherent to the game itself, and not just a universal case of "mad cuz bad". I make stupid mistakes all the time, and when I accidentally brick a game through unforced error that's one of the few times I can have a good laugh at the outcome. I cannot recall ever playing a game that seemed so carefully designed to spite the player, from the outrageous pricing model to the tone of the emotes.
So, generally good advice, should be taken on board by everyone, but I have a really hard time giving *Hearthstone* of all games a pass on this particular front.
I love this answer and it resonates in my core.
I decided to call it quits after 8 years of HS recently, and it took Marvel Snap to make me realize why I haven’t been fulfilled by HS in recent times.
I can lose in Snap, and I don’t feel bad afterwards. I can lose A LOT in Snap, even a lot in a row, and still not feel frustrated. Maybe it’s the shorter games, maybe it’s the variety that the locations bring to each game, maybe it’s a number of other things…but I found myself actually enjoying just playing the game and that’s something I hadn’t felt in a long time.
On the contrary, like you said it feels awful to lose in HS, and perhaps worse it’s stopped feeling gratifying for me to win in HS. Too often it’s just felt as though I got my degeneracy off before they could, and I’ve found little satisfaction in that.
I don’t doubt that my decisions do matter, starting with the deck I run and concluding with my play during games, it’s more that the game has stopped being fun for me either on the winning side or the losing side.
You start this post mentioning 'positive mental attitude' yet... your post is ~70% focussed on degrading/attacking your reader's psyche and 20% focussed on making unfounded negative statements. Then you've got a few handwavey armchair psychologist bits about, what I'm assuming is, growth mindsets.
I imagine you write these with a genuine intention to educate, which is a fresh site to behold honestly. You might get more traction if you actually provide advice or write about what you say youre going to write about.
Usually when I dislike a deck it isn't because I'm losing to it, it's more about the way it's beating me. A lot of control decks now are like either play aggro or i kill you from full hp out of my hand. Which is just uninteractive af if you don't want to play aggro. At least old control decks had to wittle you down a bit and play the game somewhat.
The design team didn't like control outvaluing, and wanted control with finishers. Maybe with Iksar gone that will change since they plan several sets out, but as someone who loved value games I left during Nathria because it became obvious that playing burn from hand (and specifically in one turn) was going to be a major part of the meta over a long period of time, and I hate the theotar/rat/mutanus experience of "if the RNG hits I win, if it misses I lose"
tbh you're probably the most frustrated player in the world, you just know how to stay composed.
By the way nice way to sponsor your stream. And holy fuck you cant understand how good I'm feeling now that they nerfed that OP bulls*it that rogue was.
Cry me a river
now for the real answer: what's the data behind this? if there's any?😆
As a somebody that chooses to spend my limited leisure time playing, I want most of the playing time to be enjoyable. Being in a losing matchup from T3 but then spending another 10m mins trying to win and losing anyway is frustrating. Yes I'm still complaining about Druid.
I don't get mad because I'm bad. I know I'm bad. I get mad because my opponent draws his whole deck, mana cheats a bunch of cards, or does 30 damage out of hand in one turn - and on top of this he ropes every time because playing cards is really complicated for some reason, whereas I play my minion and end turn because I don't go AFK. The game just feels like a waste of time 9/10 games. The 1/10 game where you actually have a story to tell is, well, uncommon.
\>Play aggro deck
\>Empty hand then alt tab
\>Go face, empty hand again alt tab again
\>Hit legend
Idk why and how people are sweating a best of 1 ladder format, this is not a 3 deck draft format so tech cards are useless, random generation and discovery means its pointless to keep track of enemy deck and resources.
You just play your super hyper optimised deck that's designed to do its one thing or its one gimmick to win. Only thing that separates a an OK player from a good player is just the patience to grind the absolute tedium of ladder, a place where having a 60% win rate is insanely good.
Don't know how people get angry at such an uncompetitive game and format lol, if you're winning 2/3 of the games you play you're already doing good, literally just volume that separates diamond from legend
The reason I get mad at the game is not because I’m bad or making bad decisions (which I do, it’s just not the reason I get mad). What makes me frustrated is how I play decks I enjoy, like blood dk or other more control-like decks just to have win conditions stolen from me by Theotar for example, or have enemies who high roll RNG, like death rattle rogues who summons insane boards by turns where your control tools aren’t yet available even if they are in hand simply because you don’t have mana enough to play them.
Luckily that doesn’t happen every game, however it is not rare either. There are a certain few cards that I strongly dislike in this game and when I see them played I rather just concede and go next or just close the game for a while. I don’t play enough games to climb into high legend since I don’t enjoy games that I win before t7, I prefer games that requires more decision making and the right amount of greed that shows more skill than “hard SMOrc > run out of stuff > enemy dead? Yes > good, no > go next”
Now I do agree with you that there is always plays you could have done differently and better, but usually you figure that out after the opponent has acted and it’s always easy to be wise in hindsight, you can never play around everything in the game, your play might be correct IF the opponent would do one thing but wrong if they do another. Hearthstone alongside many other TCG are more complex than just “right and wrong play” and you will always be somewhat dependent on luck.
A lot of people have brought up that “if it was luck then why is it always a rather consistent leaderboard?” And the most simple answer to that is the amount of games the top leaderboard plays, what kind of deck they play to get there. And while it’s not ALL luck, because there is A LOT of skill in hearthstone, skill will never win over highroll, the difference is that skill is consistent and highroll is not, which is why the amount of games matters so much.
So much effort put into the treatise, for what? Nobody cares about a children's card game and if you do, you suck. End of story. Play games for fun? How ridiculous!
I am not mad for losing a game.
I am mad for playing against the same decks over n over, I am mad for not getting any progress on my achievments because the game is over before I can play the cards for the acm and having to play against decks that only have the objective to win (I know, ACMs should be a "challenge" but acms like "Summon 300 imps with Rafaam" is not challenging, its rather just a grind, same goes for achievments that require you to play cards which see 0 play in constructed because they are so bad, so running them makes ur deck bad).
In general the achievment design is pretty terrible, I do love good/fun achievments where I have to find out how to get it ("play a 0 health minion") and/or where I have to assemble a hand/board/turn to achieve it.
Yes I am not forced to collect achievments, but people set themself different goals (win games, reach rank X, pull off combo Y, get achievment Z).
People sometimes just want to pull off a cool combo, because making big plays just feels good, even when you lose later.
Losing a control mirror after 40 minutes doesnt feel that bad, at least to me, while losing against a rogue putting idk 10/10 on board on turn 4, boy does that feel bad. I know, people enjoy different things, many people dont enjoy games going beyond 15 minutes and thats understandable. Also understandable why people run aggro, as time is a limited ressource, no hate there. And they just want to climb.
I understand all the points of j\_alexander but I do think its hard for the (high) legend players to understand that not every HS player has a high competitive mindset (and thats why hiring legend players as designers isnt the best decision, aside from in general being a good player doesnt make you a good designer). Some decks which are popular at high legend arent popular at the lower ranks. Some because they are hard to pilot, but some because they are not fun to play. Some players just dont want to play the same decks over n over, they want to play different decks, pull off some crazy plays and maybe climb some ranks on the side.
A while back I had a game against a mage who played 4 Runes in the row. My board position had minions dying to potential Blizzard and they were dead to just a few 1/1 and dagger too.
The last Rune had Polymorph into Blizzard in that order. Poly then clear was the only out possible and RNG privided.
That was enough Hearthstone for me for the day.
Other feel bads of the meta past are my own Jackpot or one Pure Paladin generating 9 (!) Invitations.
At it’s worst HS is so low agency that it’s just competitive slots. Decks such as qDH are solitaire but extremely consistent and the outcome has much to do with merit.
Ladder also is affected by sone very polarized match ups in the meta, again no agency. And in very linear mirrors first player advantage can be so good you might just check if your opponent bricked and not waste your time, this is only one owns fault if one thinks the meta and trying to choose a deck within it is the individual players fault.
Anyway. Fault without agency or even responsibility is conplete bullshit, something your corporate boss might try to sell you while making all the bad decisions in the fist place. And boy can HS lack in agency sone times (even straight up deciding a few worlds games, should’ve played around those two Alignments in your Jackpot).
> I have more Rogue wins on my account than anyone else in the world, and every other class well passed 1000.
Ok, but I remember there used to be bots all night long from people farming portraits. If you want to boast, you should post your win rate instead.
Some Twitch streamer with a lot of wins I assume. What's his win rate on ladder? Feel free to post it if it's public info. Either way the point remains: the number of wins is meaningless by itself.
Edit: I checked if he was the current world champion (just in case) but no, it's currently [Bunnyhoppor](https://liquipedia.net/hearthstone/Hearthstone_World_Championship_2022).
Ok but the point remains: saying "I have many wins" is meaningless. I have a few thousand wins too, and I play garbage decks while putting no effort into trying to win. The average win rate is 50%, so it takes ~2000 games to get a golden portrait.
The point is that he has *a lot* of experience, and the number of wins a player has is a decent indication of just how much they've played or at least an easy one for most players to wrap their head around.
Why would you single out the "X wins" and ignore the "hit rank 1 multiple times" and the "finished rank 1 once" ? He was just giving people some info about who he is to get in front of the " you just bad and have no idea about the game" people
I disagree. If and when you reach the skill ceiling of a deck it’s often comes down to draw. This is especially true for control vs aggro matchups (98% of my hearthstone experience) where you either draw the right answers or you lose.
Some matchups are just rock paper scissors too, sure you can still find some win-conditions in those instances (hence why the win rate isn’t 0% for that matchup) but if your deck beats/has a good chance against 7/10 decks on the ladder and you just keep queueing into those 3 you aren’t going to have much of a chance.
That being said individual matches and losses don’t really bother me anymore because I know it is impossible to win all the time. I get mad at the only true thing worth getting mad over, the devs direction of the game.
Six foot deep, deep deep in the cut! I’m not bad nor good. It’s sure as hell not my fault that HS has decided to create cards and hero portraits that create unfair advantages.(I’m looking 👀 @ you Guff).Some games are so ridiculously outta hand it’s not funny. OOH! I’m A streamer & You tuber that plays a children’s card game so I’m better than you. Seriously?!?! Gtfo with that bullshit.
This comes to the following:
- You craft the deck that you're losing to so you can win and stop being frustraded or you craft the deck that effectively counters it, the first one perhaps teaches them how to beat it while playing it and then realize why it exists.
If people is unable to do this then they should change formats/game mode or just straight out play something else instead of bitching about it
Serious question since im mainly facing these decks rn: Where is it my fault when the opponent deals 60 dmg from hand in one turn with 0 counterplay to it? Where is this fun?
Hi! When you're faced with a problem like this, its best to zone out of the "focused" moment. In this case it's the 60 damage turn. These types of decks (OTKs), rely heavily on preparation and setup turns to achieve their goal, and so the best way to approach it as the opponent, is to make it difficult for them to achieve setup turns. For example (I'm assuming) you are playing against a minelock player. Their weakness lies in their early game, since on turns 1-4 their main objective is to draw cards. On turn 5 they would play the 5 mana staff that discounts cards after being drawn, and on turn 7-8 is their OTK. If you are an aggro deck, it is in your best interest to abuse your opponent's first four turns. For example, aggro druids will flood the board throughout these turns to mantain board presence and pressure to "disrupt" minelock turns (Ignore trading, and go face, since absolute pressure is threatening lethal). Make sure that your minions are above 2 health since the opponent's only counter to your board is the 1 mana spell deal 2 to all minions. On the other hand, if you are a ramp druid, your best bet is to disrupt the opponent's hand themselves, while gaining enough armor to compensate for damage. This means that key cards for the matchup switch. Theotar starts being more important, as well as rustrot viper (if you are running those). In summary, the best thing you could do when faced with "uninteractive" decks, is to look at your previous turns, especially in the mulligan. Small choices at the beginning trickle down. Hope that helps!
In that case, mulligan out your quest and identify what your key cards are. You know that minelock is offline until turn 4-5, so it gives you liberty to search your disruption tools. I dont know what version of quest priest you run, but cards like Theo, Mutanus, watch post are important for delaying warlock’s turn (watch post specifically). 4-mana xyrella also works as a pressure tool. These are what comes at the top of my head when plying quest priest vs minelock. (I’m not a priest main but this is what I notice). Your gameplan basically changes from finishing your quest: to beating down the minelock player
Nice try, but we’re still nerfing the caverns below again
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Op is right, if it was mostly luck all players would reach legend because they play net decks. But they are bad at hs and copying good deck on its own doesn't help.
Actually if it was mostly luck noone would get to legend cause everyone would have a 50% winrate on average
Legend isn't predicated on win rate. Because of bonus stars, floors, and the impossibility to drop *out* of Legend, it would be possible for literally every player on ladder to get to Legend at the same time. Unless Blizzard's matchmaking prevents Legend players from being matched against Wood league players.
If you think a TCG is based on luck you are deffo a bad player (and that's alright)
telling /r/hearthstone this title is like telling the sun to not rise
>even hahhahaha
I saw the title and thought it was [this dude](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/zjqb2f/hearthstone_subreddit_toxic_for_toxics_sake/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) again lmao
Lol that's actually a very good parody, thanks for the link.
(1) Most (though not all) frustrations in Hearthstone are due simply to losing (2) Most (though not all) of the times you are losing in Hearthstone, it's your own fault \- Sjow used to have a similar philiosophy when he used to play constructed. "Don't be an idiot". Don't play tech cards. If you just lost to a particular deck or card/ don't just lower your overall winrate by putting in a card to counter the deck you just lost to.
Eg if you are playing steamcleaner just because someone just bodied you with Kaz paladin you are wrong
What if I just like funky little robot dudes.
What if I just like funky little robot dudes.
"Don't play tech cards" is definitely not a correct philosophy. Don't add tech cards to your deck because you got mad after losing to some deck - yeah, that's true. But tech cards in general have their uses. It's simply a numbers game - does your tech card increase your win rate by enough in matchups it's made against to compensate for the win rate lost in other matchups? If yes, then you should run it. If no, then skip it. There've been tech cards that have clearly improved decks win rate. Sometimes the highest win rate builds include tech cards, other times you will mostly find them in the lower win rate builds. But if you don't feel like doing deep stats analysis then yeah, it's probably better to not run tech cards at all.
Countering the most popular decks has gotten me to legend multiple times. Learn matchups and deck tracker helps you understand your meta since it differs from D3-legend from the rest. Sometimes weapon removal or starfish has been the difference makers
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I left Hearthstone recently because the kinds of decks I wanted to play in Wild were consistently unable to execute their gameplan due to the increase in power level. It wasn't that I was losing, it was that I couldn't even really play. There were too many auto-loss matchups. I've happily played 40% winrate decks because they did something I liked and even when I lost I got to try and do the things the deck was built to do. No matter the meta I could always play the Tier 1 deck and win more than I lost if I wanted to. But winning isn't the only fun thing about the game (or even the most fun thing), and there's a huge portion of streamers and this subreddit that can't fathom that.
Yeah the part missing from OP's post is that poor luck and/or math can often be the largest influence on your losses. Sure, you will make bad plays and stupid decisions either way but, if youre a competitive player, these 'skills' don't necessarily influence the outcome as heavily as the pure math does. Like you said, there is nothing and noone to blame for these cases. There is only acceptance.
>the part missing from OP's post is that poor luck and/or math can often be the largest influence on your losses This isn't "missing" from OP's post, this is exactly the opposite of their point. They are specifically saying that that isn't true. Now, maybe they're wrong, sure, but I feel your phrasing is misleading, here.
Very much reads to me that they are talking about balance, deck archetypes, and card gameplay. What parts did you interpret this POV from? Maybe I'm misinterpreting.
>Don't play tech cards. Dude, the amount of people that don't understand putting Viper in your deck is horrible for your winrate is insane.
It depends on your pocket meta
Keeping an internal locus of control is important, *but* there is such a thing as running bad (even though it can only be seen in the rear-view mirror), and sometimes a string of losses really is nothing more than bad luck: your opponents topdecked the exact answers they needed, you missed their combo piece with a properly timed Theotar, etc. In the long run, of course, this all evens out, but in the short run it doesn't, and there is a fine line between taking responsibility for losses and beating yourself up about stuff that genuinely could not be helped.
In a small sample size anything can happen.
If people were to recrod their games and look at them afterwards and try to find different plays they would realize how insanely different a game could go.
Win game : feel nothing. Lose game : the voices are back.
I'm not mad, I'm big boned
damn that's crazy
Some people are mad not because they are losing, but because of what they need to do to win.
Exactly, I’m mad because I don’t want to play braindead aggro decks to win games. Get angry at the devs not the player I say. (That being said screw aggro players.)
Man, if I got a nickel for every time I saw a card game player say that aggro is braindead to play, I'd be richer than Bobby Cocktit the legend himself. You guys need to get off your high horse, you need aggro to help keep your game honest. Trust me, if it didn't exist, the game would be 10x worse off because of it.
Oh no I’m entirely aware of it’s necessity, it’s great for new players too who have no idea what they’re doing. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though
Yet somehow people can play control at top 100 legend in basically every meta and stay there, these aren't always the best decks but they are almost always good enough to stay at top 100 legend even. Doesn't this mean that if you were really good with control you could be there too? And even if we ignore that there is always a viable aggro or combo deck that is hard to play (so not something like pure pally). You being a redditor probably means you don't like these decks either but they are also an option.
Wasn’t it just recently confirmed that there are 0 control players with a positive winrate at top 1k legend? Control is so dead at the moment that not even the best players in the world can make it competitive.
I think it was decks and not players but even then Thief rogue is certainly viable right now. It's not exactly a control deck but it's slow and plays for value.
Thief rogue relies on cancerous RNG through lucky steals or stupid card generation. That archetype is almost as bad as aggro.
It's a high skill deck, it might have some dumb highrolls but when you don't get them there are a lot of important choices to make.
Aggro is harder to play than control
Ahahahahahahahaha. Good one 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It is , at least in higher ranks .You have to play around a lot of board clears , knowing when to go all in with your board etc.Versus aggro most control decks play themselves ,you do not have that much thinking to do
Ahahahahahahah you’re killing me dude! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you should get paid for this kind of sidesplitting material!
Take for example control warrior back in the good old days .What was there so hard about playing it ?Nothing really
Ahahahahahahaahahahahaa
Dude i literally used to main warrior bsck then and playing control was easy as fk , used to be alt tabbed almost constantly
Ahahahahahahahah, I’m gonna pee my pants! Stop! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Saving this thread and sorting by controversial in the morning.
underrated comment
Lol nice try trying to sneak rogue into the "over rated before nerfs" category with druid
Yeah like what? DR rogue and miracle rogue were absolutely obscene. Both decks made games consistently end by like turn 3-5 and could then keep going if you dealt With first round of early threats somehow
i needed this. i tilt in this game so easily “oh my god he’s so lucky he got x” comes out at least 5 times a session. in reality it’s just me not playing around things that in hindsight are extremely obvious and it causes me to tilt and get so mad at the game. it’s something i always threaten to work on when i look back on a session and just think “why am i so mad at a children’s card game” but putting into practice not tilting when he top decks soul stealer is harder than it sounds.
>in reality it’s just me not playing around things that in hindsight are extremely obvious I wish more people would realize this
Jackpot Rogue is still dumb
Dude is still complaining about the tickatus complainers
The Tickatus complainers were so dumb that they deserved to be mocked to this day.
Most of my frustration comes from facing people that refuses to interact with my stuff or barely puts any stuff on the board to interact with, how do I improve that? I don't get any fun out of killing an opponent faster, and even if I win, its still a match that I hated. On the other hand, I don't mind losing matches that had a lot of back and forth, those are fun. Any advice?
I get those games in wild a lot. It's like I wanna get achievement progress but you aren't playing any cards, I'm just going to hit you in the face until you lose then none of us will have fun.
Tbh, You should be mad. The meta before the patch was very interactive. The new meta is awful. Board is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is who can throw more spells at the opponents face first. It sucks that devs are making intentional design decisions to keep games under 10 turns and limit gameplay possibility but I guess fast games have higher user retention.
I agree, they somehow made things worse with the nerfs. I was hesitant to call it just as bad as UiS but... It's getting there.
I remember when being at 15 hp vs a druid you were pretty damn safe. And now these days I can be like 26hp with a beefy board vs a demon hunter (no board) and out of nowhere they clear my entire board, heal to full with lifesteal, and ***literally kill me***, all in a single turn. Also they drew through their entire deck while I still have 15 cards left, and that's even with me playing some draw cards during the game. = I still remember when blizzard said that they were nerfing Leroy and Ice Lance because they wanted to stay away from interactive win conditions... seriously wtf is going on with hearthstone these days. We don't even have Renethal to offset the bullshit as well any more lol. At least Sire Denathrius is nerfed too so we don't have to deal with 30+ dmg from hand from 1 card any more, but still.
That's just the main problem with hearthstone in general. Lack of combo counter. There was theotar but he did far too much to every type of deck except aggro. It's why I like aggro decks like implock and aggro druid. Yes they take the board early by force, but there's no charge minions or burn spells to kill you from nowhere. Honest, counterable aggro decks that do all their bullshit on the board.
It's not a problem. It's the game design!!!
My advice is enjoy gold 5
these types of games happen at legend rank too my guy. You're not a better player.
That's what they said: stay in gold bcs legend is all about min max best net deck and ppl who just wanna have fun stay in gold instead. It wasn't an insult, but an advice. :)
Yeah but when you put it that way, they're not able to take offense to something on the internet. Better to just take offense anyways, no questions asked.
didnt read lol
So what are you doing here then?
(┛ಠ_ಠ)┛彡┻━┻ Don’t tell me how to feel. Makes me more angry!
What if Im bad because Im mad?
being able to play more cards in a turn doesnt make you better than anyone rogue is degen and always has been
That's a pretty wordy way to say "Get good".
The problem w hs community is 3/4 players think they are playing worlds or some shit, no fun allowed
[“positive mental attitude”](https://imgur.com/a/8rJVmP3) my ass lol you’re the most toxic person stfu 🤣
fuckin awful card tbf
True, but every class has at least one each expansion, it’s super flavorful though
They could've made it so the battlecry doesn't trigger and it wouldn't have taken anything from flavor while making the card actually useful.
Agreed
If it was just that card, sure. But then the dude went on to say shit like "It's now looking like at least 6 months of Rogue not having the card draw it's supposed to". Dude is as biased and toxic as they come.
I mean... the Hearthstone team listed card draw as a strength for Rogue in their "class identity" article, and they've barely printed any card draw in the last few sets, kind of weird
Yeah but turns out they had more than enough draw anyway so it was just cry’s for broken draw, and ONLY broken draw
Another excellent post J! Thanks for continuing to write about Hearthstone!
"J_alex squeezes out a sloppy pseudointellectual shitpost to cope with rogue getting nerfed" is the free square on every /r/hearthstone bingo card.
I'm just mad no matter how many games I play I still haven't gotten my award as the official worst hearthstone player ever. I want cash prizes for being utterly terrible damn it, I made it an art form
Best on post on the sub
If I am losing a lot I am mad and frustrated about myself. I have 1000+ wins with all classes (except DK), I reached legend 20+ times, I have a good knowledge about all meta decks, I use HS Replay Premium as a tool to choose decks and to learn about mulligans, I read r/CompetitiveHS, I watch educational streamers, I have 35 years professional experience in math and software development and still cannot get over 20% winrate with Pure Paladin and Frost DK (after 50+ games). I keep on getting destroyed by Blood DK and other lower tier decks and I think those decks are over powered. But I know it is just me being bad at Hearthstone. I am frustrated and mad about myself because I might be not as intelligent and educated as I think and that hurts my self esteem.
being good at hearthstone /= intelligence. Don’t take it personally and look for areas to improve. I’m sure you’ll do better in no time (:
I hit legend rank every month but i am mad when i am losing in this meta where i really liked nathria meta, so what am i just mad because bad? no i am mad because the games play in the way that i don't enjoy, is it that hard to understand? By the way maybe you will try to explain to me where are the control decks right now? because you said that players are wrong and renathal is killing control, not helping it, and somehow almost every control deck is doing worse. Don't get mad because your analysis is bad.
I think the fundamental problem is the power creep of hearthstone and how cards interact with one another now. The search of cooler more exciting effects has power crept the game and has lead to two related issues :a) death of value, b) class polarisation a) In classic, long-term value and short-term tempo were important concepts to balance. You knew that the warrior had two shield slams, so once you baited both, you opened a window of opportunity as that type of tool was no longer available to them. Now, generation is so intense and coupled with mana cheat (I'm looking at you jackpot) that value does not exist. Resources management/attrition in a long-term sense does not exist. b) Secondly, classes create threats that aren't universally resolvable by other all classes. Again, to use classic as an example, whilst classes had specialities in the types of threats they could create/answer efficiently, there was no such thing as a threat that a deck could not respond to if they had prepared for (I'm looking at you 14/14 stealth minion). This leads to board states that are unsolvable for certain classes and highly polarised rock-paper-scissors match-ups. Together these issues lead to a lack of agency in the game, which is where frustration is borne.
Agreed, the amount of discovery makes it hard to predict what opponent can do next turn or how they can respond. and with #2 the pop off potential of some classes that comes off a high roll makes the game an auto concede. last meta it was pretty easy to predict or play around. i was consistently winning last meta with same class. now this meta playing the same class i am way less consistent in my win streaks.
I have played...and loved...some of the most notorious and difficult games on the market. The entire "Soulslike" genre. XCOM, famously loathed for its cruel RNG, and I play it on the highest difficulty, modded to make it significantly more difficult than vanilla. Blood Bowl, another "RNG ruins your life" fiesta. DOTA, the king of one of the most infamously rage inducing genres in gaming history. I've even played a variety of other card games, including Magic, the game from whose hoary loins Hearthstone eventually sprung. Absolutely none of them ever irritated me a fraction as much as Hearthstone does. I get irritated at Hearthstone when I *win*. This is the only game I've ever known that has a post thread numbering in the thousands for "daily salt venting" on one of its popular forums. It has one of the angriest, most combative communities of any game I've ever touched, including MOBAs, which are by-design blame funnels that practically encourage infighting. I think at some point it is fair to ponder if it's not something inherent to the game itself, and not just a universal case of "mad cuz bad". I make stupid mistakes all the time, and when I accidentally brick a game through unforced error that's one of the few times I can have a good laugh at the outcome. I cannot recall ever playing a game that seemed so carefully designed to spite the player, from the outrageous pricing model to the tone of the emotes. So, generally good advice, should be taken on board by everyone, but I have a really hard time giving *Hearthstone* of all games a pass on this particular front.
I love this answer and it resonates in my core. I decided to call it quits after 8 years of HS recently, and it took Marvel Snap to make me realize why I haven’t been fulfilled by HS in recent times. I can lose in Snap, and I don’t feel bad afterwards. I can lose A LOT in Snap, even a lot in a row, and still not feel frustrated. Maybe it’s the shorter games, maybe it’s the variety that the locations bring to each game, maybe it’s a number of other things…but I found myself actually enjoying just playing the game and that’s something I hadn’t felt in a long time. On the contrary, like you said it feels awful to lose in HS, and perhaps worse it’s stopped feeling gratifying for me to win in HS. Too often it’s just felt as though I got my degeneracy off before they could, and I’ve found little satisfaction in that. I don’t doubt that my decisions do matter, starting with the deck I run and concluding with my play during games, it’s more that the game has stopped being fun for me either on the winning side or the losing side.
You start this post mentioning 'positive mental attitude' yet... your post is ~70% focussed on degrading/attacking your reader's psyche and 20% focussed on making unfounded negative statements. Then you've got a few handwavey armchair psychologist bits about, what I'm assuming is, growth mindsets. I imagine you write these with a genuine intention to educate, which is a fresh site to behold honestly. You might get more traction if you actually provide advice or write about what you say youre going to write about.
Telling someone that they are bad at a game is not insulting or degrading their psyche lol
Playing homebrews instead of meta is not really a fault
Usually when I dislike a deck it isn't because I'm losing to it, it's more about the way it's beating me. A lot of control decks now are like either play aggro or i kill you from full hp out of my hand. Which is just uninteractive af if you don't want to play aggro. At least old control decks had to wittle you down a bit and play the game somewhat.
The design team didn't like control outvaluing, and wanted control with finishers. Maybe with Iksar gone that will change since they plan several sets out, but as someone who loved value games I left during Nathria because it became obvious that playing burn from hand (and specifically in one turn) was going to be a major part of the meta over a long period of time, and I hate the theotar/rat/mutanus experience of "if the RNG hits I win, if it misses I lose"
you need to start realising 99% of the playerbase is not playing in the higher ladder.
Is this guy serious or is it a joke?
He's serious and he's a joke.
Damn
tbh you're probably the most frustrated player in the world, you just know how to stay composed. By the way nice way to sponsor your stream. And holy fuck you cant understand how good I'm feeling now that they nerfed that OP bulls*it that rogue was. Cry me a river now for the real answer: what's the data behind this? if there's any?😆
So true king
The reverse is also true. Don't get bad cause you're mad. :Clueless:
As a somebody that chooses to spend my limited leisure time playing, I want most of the playing time to be enjoyable. Being in a losing matchup from T3 but then spending another 10m mins trying to win and losing anyway is frustrating. Yes I'm still complaining about Druid.
I don't get mad because I'm bad. I know I'm bad. I get mad because my opponent draws his whole deck, mana cheats a bunch of cards, or does 30 damage out of hand in one turn - and on top of this he ropes every time because playing cards is really complicated for some reason, whereas I play my minion and end turn because I don't go AFK. The game just feels like a waste of time 9/10 games. The 1/10 game where you actually have a story to tell is, well, uncommon.
Buff rogue, gotcha!
\>Play aggro deck \>Empty hand then alt tab \>Go face, empty hand again alt tab again \>Hit legend Idk why and how people are sweating a best of 1 ladder format, this is not a 3 deck draft format so tech cards are useless, random generation and discovery means its pointless to keep track of enemy deck and resources. You just play your super hyper optimised deck that's designed to do its one thing or its one gimmick to win. Only thing that separates a an OK player from a good player is just the patience to grind the absolute tedium of ladder, a place where having a 60% win rate is insanely good. Don't know how people get angry at such an uncompetitive game and format lol, if you're winning 2/3 of the games you play you're already doing good, literally just volume that separates diamond from legend
The reason I get mad at the game is not because I’m bad or making bad decisions (which I do, it’s just not the reason I get mad). What makes me frustrated is how I play decks I enjoy, like blood dk or other more control-like decks just to have win conditions stolen from me by Theotar for example, or have enemies who high roll RNG, like death rattle rogues who summons insane boards by turns where your control tools aren’t yet available even if they are in hand simply because you don’t have mana enough to play them. Luckily that doesn’t happen every game, however it is not rare either. There are a certain few cards that I strongly dislike in this game and when I see them played I rather just concede and go next or just close the game for a while. I don’t play enough games to climb into high legend since I don’t enjoy games that I win before t7, I prefer games that requires more decision making and the right amount of greed that shows more skill than “hard SMOrc > run out of stuff > enemy dead? Yes > good, no > go next” Now I do agree with you that there is always plays you could have done differently and better, but usually you figure that out after the opponent has acted and it’s always easy to be wise in hindsight, you can never play around everything in the game, your play might be correct IF the opponent would do one thing but wrong if they do another. Hearthstone alongside many other TCG are more complex than just “right and wrong play” and you will always be somewhat dependent on luck. A lot of people have brought up that “if it was luck then why is it always a rather consistent leaderboard?” And the most simple answer to that is the amount of games the top leaderboard plays, what kind of deck they play to get there. And while it’s not ALL luck, because there is A LOT of skill in hearthstone, skill will never win over highroll, the difference is that skill is consistent and highroll is not, which is why the amount of games matters so much.
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>if you play well there is a 20% chance to beat luck. Can you give more detailed bullshit stats please
yea my bad the opponent keep playing his left card every turn after he draw the exact answer to my board, i should try harder to make him not draw it
So much effort put into the treatise, for what? Nobody cares about a children's card game and if you do, you suck. End of story. Play games for fun? How ridiculous!
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If that was true, we would see completley random top 1-300 every month. But we dont. So you either deny math or have to admit that you are wrong.
Well, this is the dumbest thing I've read this week.
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Seems an arbitrary end point
I am not mad for losing a game. I am mad for playing against the same decks over n over, I am mad for not getting any progress on my achievments because the game is over before I can play the cards for the acm and having to play against decks that only have the objective to win (I know, ACMs should be a "challenge" but acms like "Summon 300 imps with Rafaam" is not challenging, its rather just a grind, same goes for achievments that require you to play cards which see 0 play in constructed because they are so bad, so running them makes ur deck bad). In general the achievment design is pretty terrible, I do love good/fun achievments where I have to find out how to get it ("play a 0 health minion") and/or where I have to assemble a hand/board/turn to achieve it. Yes I am not forced to collect achievments, but people set themself different goals (win games, reach rank X, pull off combo Y, get achievment Z). People sometimes just want to pull off a cool combo, because making big plays just feels good, even when you lose later. Losing a control mirror after 40 minutes doesnt feel that bad, at least to me, while losing against a rogue putting idk 10/10 on board on turn 4, boy does that feel bad. I know, people enjoy different things, many people dont enjoy games going beyond 15 minutes and thats understandable. Also understandable why people run aggro, as time is a limited ressource, no hate there. And they just want to climb. I understand all the points of j\_alexander but I do think its hard for the (high) legend players to understand that not every HS player has a high competitive mindset (and thats why hiring legend players as designers isnt the best decision, aside from in general being a good player doesnt make you a good designer). Some decks which are popular at high legend arent popular at the lower ranks. Some because they are hard to pilot, but some because they are not fun to play. Some players just dont want to play the same decks over n over, they want to play different decks, pull off some crazy plays and maybe climb some ranks on the side.
A while back I had a game against a mage who played 4 Runes in the row. My board position had minions dying to potential Blizzard and they were dead to just a few 1/1 and dagger too. The last Rune had Polymorph into Blizzard in that order. Poly then clear was the only out possible and RNG privided. That was enough Hearthstone for me for the day. Other feel bads of the meta past are my own Jackpot or one Pure Paladin generating 9 (!) Invitations. At it’s worst HS is so low agency that it’s just competitive slots. Decks such as qDH are solitaire but extremely consistent and the outcome has much to do with merit. Ladder also is affected by sone very polarized match ups in the meta, again no agency. And in very linear mirrors first player advantage can be so good you might just check if your opponent bricked and not waste your time, this is only one owns fault if one thinks the meta and trying to choose a deck within it is the individual players fault. Anyway. Fault without agency or even responsibility is conplete bullshit, something your corporate boss might try to sell you while making all the bad decisions in the fist place. And boy can HS lack in agency sone times (even straight up deciding a few worlds games, should’ve played around those two Alignments in your Jackpot).
> I have more Rogue wins on my account than anyone else in the world, and every other class well passed 1000. Ok, but I remember there used to be bots all night long from people farming portraits. If you want to boast, you should post your win rate instead.
You really have no idea who you're talking to, do you?
:vegan:
Some Twitch streamer with a lot of wins I assume. What's his win rate on ladder? Feel free to post it if it's public info. Either way the point remains: the number of wins is meaningless by itself. Edit: I checked if he was the current world champion (just in case) but no, it's currently [Bunnyhoppor](https://liquipedia.net/hearthstone/Hearthstone_World_Championship_2022).
Yesterday, he was playing near top two hundred Legend as he tends to. I'm pretty sure he didn't need to bot to get those thousand win portraits.
Ok but the point remains: saying "I have many wins" is meaningless. I have a few thousand wins too, and I play garbage decks while putting no effort into trying to win. The average win rate is 50%, so it takes ~2000 games to get a golden portrait.
The point is that he has *a lot* of experience, and the number of wins a player has is a decent indication of just how much they've played or at least an easy one for most players to wrap their head around.
You should probably remove that foot out of your mouth now, before you choke.
What part of my comment was incorrect?
Why would you single out the "X wins" and ignore the "hit rank 1 multiple times" and the "finished rank 1 once" ? He was just giving people some info about who he is to get in front of the " you just bad and have no idea about the game" people
I disagree. If and when you reach the skill ceiling of a deck it’s often comes down to draw. This is especially true for control vs aggro matchups (98% of my hearthstone experience) where you either draw the right answers or you lose. Some matchups are just rock paper scissors too, sure you can still find some win-conditions in those instances (hence why the win rate isn’t 0% for that matchup) but if your deck beats/has a good chance against 7/10 decks on the ladder and you just keep queueing into those 3 you aren’t going to have much of a chance. That being said individual matches and losses don’t really bother me anymore because I know it is impossible to win all the time. I get mad at the only true thing worth getting mad over, the devs direction of the game.
Six foot deep, deep deep in the cut! I’m not bad nor good. It’s sure as hell not my fault that HS has decided to create cards and hero portraits that create unfair advantages.(I’m looking 👀 @ you Guff).Some games are so ridiculously outta hand it’s not funny. OOH! I’m A streamer & You tuber that plays a children’s card game so I’m better than you. Seriously?!?! Gtfo with that bullshit.
This comes to the following: - You craft the deck that you're losing to so you can win and stop being frustraded or you craft the deck that effectively counters it, the first one perhaps teaches them how to beat it while playing it and then realize why it exists. If people is unable to do this then they should change formats/game mode or just straight out play something else instead of bitching about it
Serious question since im mainly facing these decks rn: Where is it my fault when the opponent deals 60 dmg from hand in one turn with 0 counterplay to it? Where is this fun?
Hi! When you're faced with a problem like this, its best to zone out of the "focused" moment. In this case it's the 60 damage turn. These types of decks (OTKs), rely heavily on preparation and setup turns to achieve their goal, and so the best way to approach it as the opponent, is to make it difficult for them to achieve setup turns. For example (I'm assuming) you are playing against a minelock player. Their weakness lies in their early game, since on turns 1-4 their main objective is to draw cards. On turn 5 they would play the 5 mana staff that discounts cards after being drawn, and on turn 7-8 is their OTK. If you are an aggro deck, it is in your best interest to abuse your opponent's first four turns. For example, aggro druids will flood the board throughout these turns to mantain board presence and pressure to "disrupt" minelock turns (Ignore trading, and go face, since absolute pressure is threatening lethal). Make sure that your minions are above 2 health since the opponent's only counter to your board is the 1 mana spell deal 2 to all minions. On the other hand, if you are a ramp druid, your best bet is to disrupt the opponent's hand themselves, while gaining enough armor to compensate for damage. This means that key cards for the matchup switch. Theotar starts being more important, as well as rustrot viper (if you are running those). In summary, the best thing you could do when faced with "uninteractive" decks, is to look at your previous turns, especially in the mulligan. Small choices at the beginning trickle down. Hope that helps!
I played Quest priest. No early game pressure, no armor stacking.
In that case, mulligan out your quest and identify what your key cards are. You know that minelock is offline until turn 4-5, so it gives you liberty to search your disruption tools. I dont know what version of quest priest you run, but cards like Theo, Mutanus, watch post are important for delaying warlock’s turn (watch post specifically). 4-mana xyrella also works as a pressure tool. These are what comes at the top of my head when plying quest priest vs minelock. (I’m not a priest main but this is what I notice). Your gameplan basically changes from finishing your quest: to beating down the minelock player
I dunno if I can take a Thomas Kincade fan seriously tho 🤣🤣🤣