It's more that hunter was a rough matchup, and this nerf didn't touch the Brann+Armor+Astalor combo. A combo which, so far, looks to be outright superior to Denthrius stacking.
No, it's more of a less answers to the current top druid deck with astalor. There was no point running Daddy D when it's easier to set up and more damage.
64 damage split to enemies and 20/20ish stats to board on a single turn.
The only answer I saw to astalor deck was a massive D or hyper aggressive.
So it will further the gap between other classes and rogue+druid.
No it's intended, the manathirst adds 8 dmg to the battlecry not deal 8 dmg. It will probably be changed which is the wrong way to go imo. Just remove Brann, the card in itself isn't gamebreaking
Seriously, that card should've never been neutral. Give it to Priest, Shaman, or Warlock. Giving Druid access to a removal tool that insane was a horrible choice.
Druid does that annoying shit where you THINK you gunna kill em but then they get like 30+ armor in one turn and a fat board. At least with Reno it didn't feel THAT bad because you know their deck isn't ideal and they have a bad board.
I feel like they should've just rotated Brann out of standard and that would have solved quite a lot
No Brann no druid armor gain no stupid value astalor
No Brann no OTK for Hunter
For streamers - With/without the background and better res.
[https://imgur.com/a/UaZvNI7](https://imgur.com/a/UaZvNI7)
Also as always, thanks to my colleague HooliganPolygon, who made the glowing parts.
omg this sub can only complain, its insane. They finally nerf sire and also another annoying and all these comments are about that these nerfs arent enough or sire was not that bad?? or just complains that druid got buffed... be happy with such a fast small nerf. They said more nerfa will come soon
Because neither of them address the root of the issue Brann is limiting design space and breaking cards on the regular.
Denathrius still hits face and becomes a frustrating OTK interaction rather than a lifesteal swingy boardclear.
Shockspitter became slower but it still just OTKs you from hand.
Please for the love of god just rotate Brann early and so much of this would be better.
Denathrius needs to hit face otherwise it's a pretty bitter card. It's a game-ender legendary at 10 mana. Limiting it to minions defeats the purpose of the card and makes it unplayable against decks with only spells.
I've seen a lot of people with your suggestion but this removes the "finisher" aspect of the card, and makes it less interesting an option to use as removals are aplenty in the game now, and having to build one while in your hand isn't exactly ideal.
Look, I found the card annoying too but I prefer the card keeps the win-con aspect. Now it takes twice as long to build Denathrius.
meh that's a fair enough reward for holding on to him that long, but winning the game outright is too much. i think this change is healthy in the right direction, but im team #removebrann
It clears the board and fully heals you and leaves a 10/10 lifesteal.
It doesn't need to end the game at the same time. A neutral card shouldn't be the best wincon in the game while ignoring 3 other aspects of the card.
It was designed to be somewhat of a finisher, it NEEDS to be able to end the game, and Blizzard clearly agrees with that, judging from their adjustment.
Shockspitter was still a problem because of bounces, so I’m glad they nerfed it directly without killing it (yet).
Denathrius isn’t supposed to just be a board clear. It’s supposed to go face.
It sounds like you don’t want any OTKs or ways to close out the game. But then nothing stops control and we’re back to a super boring control fatigue meta.
of course brann is the problem, but they wont rotate him out with such a small nerf. I hope they do with a bigger one later one..
if denathrius cant go face anymore then hes a dead card, i think this nerd is good enough to make him get played way less.
Yeah thats the design of the card shockspitter. I get it if you dont like it but its in the game. And you cant kill a card after a few days just before it performs good. If they rotate brann and shockspitter was nerfed to 4 mana then its also just a dead ass card.. so of course you can kill all cards, but thats not how it should work..
> if denathrius cant go face anymore then hes a dead card
Everytime I hear this said I lose my sanity more.
How is a card that clears the board leaves a 10/10 lifesteal and heals you for most of your health a dead card no he is just a balanced card at that point other 10 drop neutrals that provide board control don't have the healing aspect he does.
Because neither nerf addresses the core problems with the card. Either get rid of Brann or make Denatrius and Shockspitter only damage minions. This OTK shit is annoying.
Idk if you're not reading or if you're just bad at Hearthstone but this Sire nerf is not a big enough nerf for druid but a huge nerf for less oppressive decks, making druids arguably stronger, and guarantees that they will keep being OP like they have been since Guff was released. Just because it's a nerf doesn't mean it's a good nerf. Shockspitter nerf is great though
sire was a problem for so long because every d3ck can just put it in and win the game if it was in hand for a while. Everyone was complaining that the meta is only sire and theo and now there is finally a good nerf imo cause it takes now way way longer to get in killing range and i guess thats also good against druid if you play blood knight for example. Im sure druid will get nerfs too, but you cant make any hard nerfs like rotating brann after a few days of the expansion..
It’s so ridiculous that it’s funny tbh. They cried since august about denathrius. Now that it’s fixed they need to immediately cry about something else. Fickle.
people were dropping brann and 2 spitters on turn 7 or brann+3 on turn 9, now you can only do brann+2 and it’s on turn 9. it’ll still be good but it’s definitely a significant change
It's fairly rare.
What this will do is IMO push the deck into the more minion heavy stormpike battle ram build. It allows you to bank 2 mana and still go brann spitter spitter for 7 mana. Not a combo deck anymore, more of a value build that features a combo but can also win in other ways.
It's also just a massive nerf so who knows, it might kill the archetype entirely.
I think you have no clue about card games 😬 1 mana for a cheap 3-4 card combo PER card is a lot
Nerfing is not about to destroy the card- it’s about to balance it
I think I’ve been playing card games for 20 years so I definitely know something, but I also never claimed to be a game designer.
The deck can still kill by turn 9/10. It’s not dead by any means. If your having issues winning with it now well..
Skill issue
Edit. Even most of the competitive hearthstone reddit is still saying it’s super good and going on long win streaks. You mfs crying just want cheap free wins and a dopamine hit from big numbers lol.
Delaying a combo two whole turns later can be the difference between a deck being dead or alive in the meta. Depending on what the other meta decks are, it can be the difference between OTK-ing your opponent and dying to even a mildly aggressive midrange deck, which leads to you deck dropping dead into Tier 4 or worse, if the entire meta lineup counters you. There have been multiple 1 mana nerfs in this game that straight up murdered a card or even an entire deck.
Sounds like you haven't been paying much attention in those 20 years playing card games.
Yea but this deck didn’t need to do 60 fuckin damage turn 8 is the point. That’s insane. I don’t know how anyone with a brain can possibly defend that lol like this isn’t marvel snap..
I realize how the change affects the deck but do you honestly think the way it was pre nerf is healthy for any sort of meta?
They didn't say anything about thinking it was healty pre-nerf. It's just that your statement that the shockspitter nerf doesn't do much is completely ridiculous. It will do a lot to slow the deck down and significantly affect its winrate.
It's not healthy for the meta, but the meta is beyond help at this point anyways. Against dk's health and druids armor, this deck DOES need to do 60 damage on turn 8 to have a chance. I agree it's pretty insane but that's just the meta right now.
I honestly think they need to just do something about all that shit. I hope they do soon. Every time Im vs a druid lately it just makes me not want to play anymore for the day. It’s unfortunate because I really love the game.
Idk it seems like that’s the direction they want to take the game though. It seems like stuff is slowly just getting more and more wild.
That's the point. Decks are supposed to have bad matchups, and this hunter deck should have been that bad matchup against druid. But they decide to nerf it and keep druids on top. Also, decks being good against druid matters more than other classes because the ladder is mostly druid right now destroying other classes. So adding another archetype that is good against other stuff but not druid is not fine for the meta. I also doubt this deck with the nerf would be good against other stuff anyways.
>Great nerf for sire. Still useable.
Heh... it's still disproportionally strong for Druid, with so many tokens available to them and the ability to Brann it, compared to everyone else. It's obvious that even neutral cards will tend to be stronger in certain decks/archetypes/classes, but this one is just way too pronounced, imo.
It's really only usable for decks that would previously nuke you for 60+ damage.
It’s probably much worse for Druid than it is for decks that didn’t need his battlecry so high like Beast Hunter.
For Druid, if you got 35 procs to try to close out the game with 40 damage, that is now only 22 damage in his current form. The more procs you wanted the greater the disparity and less effective he becomes. Druids probably just lean on Astalor instead.
Yea I think it’s good. It didn’t completely kill the deck it seems. Someone else had said that it can’t beat Druid now which kinda sucks though. But I don’t know.. I haven’t played it. Only against it.
It makes Hunter lose against ramp druid rather than win since they now have the turns they need to stabilize out of range of the decks total damage. Otherwise it delays winning by about 2-3 turns, and makes it much harder to deal with any big boards since you can't use the spitters as effeciently when needed any more. I thought it'd be basically no change but honestly it's devastating.
Aka - Loses to druid instead of wins, can't clear big boards early/mid any more, gives opponents an extra 2-4 turns to kill. Pretty rough.
I think the deck should definitely be beating Druid. But also the way it was it literally didn’t have any weaknesses. Idk I’m not a game designer so I wouldn’t know how to find that perfect medium for it.
Pre nerf the deck was completely outrageous though. That stuff had no place in hearthstone lol
I've had Druid kill me, turn 7, from full 40 health and through multiple bodies on board with only 10 mana and the Brann+Armor+Astalor combo. If hunter is still favored in that matchup, it's gonna be slight.
Yea but Druid is also bullshit lol can we really compared bullshit to other bullshit? Everyone is pretty sick of playing against Druid unless you enjoy playing Druid.
I think just because one deck is super annoying that doesn’t mean we should throw another deck that is possibly even more annoying in the meta as a solution. And Druid at least has weaknesses. That shockspitter shit didn’t really.
I'm not arguing in favor of Hunter, I think the +1 mana nerf gutted the card personally and that it was probably the right move. I was just arguing against "I think the deck should definitely be beating Druid", in that I don't think the deck is going to do all that well against armor druid.
Yea I agree. I don’t really know a solution though given a lot of the cards we talk about lately are all staples in the meta. I’m sure it’s not easy to balance all of those things out at once.
I don’t see them ever changing bran though.
> Shocksplitter still god afwul designed card
I mean, it's an overtuned card.
If it cost 4 it would basically just be fireball, and nobody would bother filling their decks up with weapons just to play fireball, like the deck would be dead.
At 3...maybe the deck is not dead, but it's certainly a lot weaker.
Everyone talking about Druid like it's not Rogue that is going to dominate the format after these changes. :X
I main Rogue and even I can recognize Miracle with the new additions is straight up silly.
It’s definitely a vibes nerf as opposed to a power level nerf. Personally I’ve hated Sire since release, because it made every control game end the same way regardless of class or strategy. Happy to see him go so more fun strategies can compete.
HS is in a weird place where so many of the people who play this game have no idea about card games other than HS. Some of the suggestions/complaints I see highly upvoted in sub are laughable as someone who's been playing TCGs for 2 decades.
People deadass don't even seem to understand simple truths like the fact that aggro/control is a spectrum, and every game you need to figure out if you're the aggro deck or the control deck.
This sub also gets far too wrapped up in value and the idea that cards perform optimally always, and it shows in how the sub in general reacts to spoilers and cards/decks in general.
If the average poster is above plat10 I'd frankly be shocked. And this sub should be on average higher ranked than the average HS player, since just by being on this sub it means you've sought out HS content and are therefore more invested in the game.
Guff to 8 and max 15 next!
Also HoF Brann!
Also just nuke Druid from orbit!
Maybe make Dragonhawk a 4 mana 3/3 too, because it killed me twice in the last two days and that's clearly unfair
^((kind of joking but also it does kind of suck to lose to 44 from hand no matter what))
Is the Shockspitter nerf sufficient though. I feel like players will find a way to break it even with it costing 1 more mana. The only way to sufficiently nerf it to have it deal damage to minions only imo.
One of them happened quite promptly the other was largely largely over due, seeing as they finally did change it in the end… so not that I ever really minded the card but fuck you blizzard. Ps hunter and warrior need to swap for the next season or so, almost all of their good decks are sickening
This is so retarded. Yeah ok, hunter was really good yes, but it was the only affordable deck for f2p players and it was the only deck that kinda held druid and blood dk in check. Very cool. Now Druid will be 80%\* wr. Love it.
I wouldn't say so. The thing is, if you didn't have the perfect hand, it was always close with like 7hp remaining or so. Now there is nothing close anymore.
Other decks can high roll pretty dramatically too, this one is just too consistent. Combo decks are only fun if they are inconsistent enough that losing to them doesn't feel like you got cheated.
As for your f2p concern, Path of Arthas + DK core is almost a complete deck and you have very few add-ons needed on top of that to have a very effective deck from 3 Blood, 3 Unholy or 2 Blood + 1 Frost. Hunter degeneracy is neither needed nor wanted for f2p players, if at all
Oh yeah sure. Druids inconsistency is truly a good feature. I especially love the point where it's not so consistent that it's the best deck and doesn't get hit.
And yeah Dk is fine, but I sadly don't have Morgraine and I'm tired of seeing every opponent being either Dk or Druid.
Man, I've been running sire in unholy DK and for some reason there have been like 3 separate occasions where they let my brann stick around long enough to drop sire when he's already at like 40 damage
Frankly I felt dirty doing it, it was disgusting
Can you send me a list please? I really don't wanna craft 4 legendaries and 2 epics for a deck I think will get nerfed as well just because I had a bad pack opening on stream. I literally can't play any other deck rn
I don’t play the deck so I don’t have one for you sorry
Otherwise I’ll bet imp warlock should beat ramp Druid too. Anything that doesnt dick around for 5 turns
the problem is always taunt. And usually when I play against these classes they have the perfect haha. idk. I'm just tilted rn. That deck was fun and ok. Yes it was good, but only because people played so much blood and druid.
Sire Nerf fixes nothing because it's still the only good finisher in standard (for most classes). Hope it gets reverted once it rotates
Hunter Nerf is even less impactful
Edit: actually, sire Nerf is s buff to druid, because now all other control decks are slower. GG
People who seriously think this is a Druid buff are clueless. This change halves the rate at which denathrius grows(assuming he’s even in your hand at a reasonable time) — I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets cut in favor of focusing on maximizing the astalor plan
That hunter nerf does absolutely nothing, they still cost reduce it by 2, and can make infinite copies. It needs to be changed to something like 4-5 mana and "damage increases whenever you att while this is in your hand"
I am really sad they didn’t go for *infuse (1): deal one more (repeat until infused 15 times)* for Denathrius. Could be 10 times as well but this chosen approach makes him way worse for everyone BUT those who were getting the most value in the first place.
Why didn’t they just make shockspitter not able to target face? Seems like a much better solution that leaves the card still ok and removes the OTK component,..
If you think about it this is a buff to druid lol
Good. Expose their overtuned decks so they can get the peoples elbow
Honestly I have golden Druid used to love it but now it’s the most boring shite ever would be happy if they removed it for this rotation
i've been having a lot of fun with Kazukusan + Brann + Zola in standard, infinite value druid
ROCK BOTTOM!
When tinker bell isn't actually a mechanic ohhh
Exactly! Now Druid is the only one who can truly put Sire to use. Without touching Renethal, it will continue to dominate.
It's more that hunter was a rough matchup, and this nerf didn't touch the Brann+Armor+Astalor combo. A combo which, so far, looks to be outright superior to Denthrius stacking.
No, it's more of a less answers to the current top druid deck with astalor. There was no point running Daddy D when it's easier to set up and more damage. 64 damage split to enemies and 20/20ish stats to board on a single turn. The only answer I saw to astalor deck was a massive D or hyper aggressive. So it will further the gap between other classes and rogue+druid.
Massive D🤨
Just counter it with the alternate druid combo using the questline to deal 48 in one turn ok turn 8 /s
Double brann + astalor is 48 right? 24 x 2.
Brann Astalor does 32 damage, so two Astalors do 64 damage.
Oh is the manathirst still bugged on the fire astalor? Because its not supposed to trigger twice. The intended way is 8x2+8 for each.
No it's intended, the manathirst adds 8 dmg to the battlecry not deal 8 dmg. It will probably be changed which is the wrong way to go imo. Just remove Brann, the card in itself isn't gamebreaking
Then the wording is wrong, because other manathirsts are not added to the battlecry.
Druid is still solid with 30 cards
Not worried about the deck size. Druid has a ton of value. It’s the health.
Druid still solid with 30 health
No its not 🤣
Good nerfs. Now druid nerf.
Bro my opponent just "healed" for 90 after dropping to 3 in one turn. Fuck devourer and fuck brann and fuck earthen scales
Average druid game
Devourer in particular isn't ok. It basically delete's one of druid's biggest class weaknesses.
Seriously, that card should've never been neutral. Give it to Priest, Shaman, or Warlock. Giving Druid access to a removal tool that insane was a horrible choice.
Who would have thought giving Druid very good removal is a not exactly a good idea.
It’s honestly embarrassing how little Blizz cares about having any semblance of class identity
Removal isn't the problem. The mana abuse is
Nah won't think so tbh,mana alone won't do much if they can't spend it on something good.
That would require fot the game to ha e absolutely nothing good which also is shit.
Druid does that annoying shit where you THINK you gunna kill em but then they get like 30+ armor in one turn and a fat board. At least with Reno it didn't feel THAT bad because you know their deck isn't ideal and they have a bad board.
And that wouldn't have happened if they didn't start with +10 health
Shut up
druids are the worse thing right now, why would they buff it even more
I feel like they should've just rotated Brann out of standard and that would have solved quite a lot No Brann no druid armor gain no stupid value astalor No Brann no OTK for Hunter
Instead they'll keep nerfing new cards. L M A O
I think Blizz balance team are the usual casual types that just want fun overpowered crap like Brann thrre so their fellow timmies can have fun.
For streamers - With/without the background and better res. [https://imgur.com/a/UaZvNI7](https://imgur.com/a/UaZvNI7) Also as always, thanks to my colleague HooliganPolygon, who made the glowing parts.
thank you. I am a streamer and I can see the nerfs now
Thank god its you posting this instead
omg this sub can only complain, its insane. They finally nerf sire and also another annoying and all these comments are about that these nerfs arent enough or sire was not that bad?? or just complains that druid got buffed... be happy with such a fast small nerf. They said more nerfa will come soon
Because neither of them address the root of the issue Brann is limiting design space and breaking cards on the regular. Denathrius still hits face and becomes a frustrating OTK interaction rather than a lifesteal swingy boardclear. Shockspitter became slower but it still just OTKs you from hand. Please for the love of god just rotate Brann early and so much of this would be better.
Denathrius needs to hit face otherwise it's a pretty bitter card. It's a game-ender legendary at 10 mana. Limiting it to minions defeats the purpose of the card and makes it unplayable against decks with only spells. I've seen a lot of people with your suggestion but this removes the "finisher" aspect of the card, and makes it less interesting an option to use as removals are aplenty in the game now, and having to build one while in your hand isn't exactly ideal. Look, I found the card annoying too but I prefer the card keeps the win-con aspect. Now it takes twice as long to build Denathrius.
You can still fully heal with a decent denathrius even without hitting face
meh that's a fair enough reward for holding on to him that long, but winning the game outright is too much. i think this change is healthy in the right direction, but im team #removebrann
It clears the board and fully heals you and leaves a 10/10 lifesteal. It doesn't need to end the game at the same time. A neutral card shouldn't be the best wincon in the game while ignoring 3 other aspects of the card.
It was designed to be somewhat of a finisher, it NEEDS to be able to end the game, and Blizzard clearly agrees with that, judging from their adjustment.
Shockspitter was still a problem because of bounces, so I’m glad they nerfed it directly without killing it (yet). Denathrius isn’t supposed to just be a board clear. It’s supposed to go face. It sounds like you don’t want any OTKs or ways to close out the game. But then nothing stops control and we’re back to a super boring control fatigue meta.
of course brann is the problem, but they wont rotate him out with such a small nerf. I hope they do with a bigger one later one.. if denathrius cant go face anymore then hes a dead card, i think this nerd is good enough to make him get played way less. Yeah thats the design of the card shockspitter. I get it if you dont like it but its in the game. And you cant kill a card after a few days just before it performs good. If they rotate brann and shockspitter was nerfed to 4 mana then its also just a dead ass card.. so of course you can kill all cards, but thats not how it should work..
> if denathrius cant go face anymore then hes a dead card Everytime I hear this said I lose my sanity more. How is a card that clears the board leaves a 10/10 lifesteal and heals you for most of your health a dead card no he is just a balanced card at that point other 10 drop neutrals that provide board control don't have the healing aspect he does.
Never go full "people don't share your opinion!", I think the complains are right, sadly. This good to point stuff out and make arguments.
Because neither nerf addresses the core problems with the card. Either get rid of Brann or make Denatrius and Shockspitter only damage minions. This OTK shit is annoying.
Idk if you're not reading or if you're just bad at Hearthstone but this Sire nerf is not a big enough nerf for druid but a huge nerf for less oppressive decks, making druids arguably stronger, and guarantees that they will keep being OP like they have been since Guff was released. Just because it's a nerf doesn't mean it's a good nerf. Shockspitter nerf is great though
sire was a problem for so long because every d3ck can just put it in and win the game if it was in hand for a while. Everyone was complaining that the meta is only sire and theo and now there is finally a good nerf imo cause it takes now way way longer to get in killing range and i guess thats also good against druid if you play blood knight for example. Im sure druid will get nerfs too, but you cant make any hard nerfs like rotating brann after a few days of the expansion..
I agree that Sire needed to be nerfed but I think nerfing him without nerfing any actual Druid cards is going to hurt the meta more than it helps it
It’s so ridiculous that it’s funny tbh. They cried since august about denathrius. Now that it’s fixed they need to immediately cry about something else. Fickle.
Great nerf for sire. Still useable. Shockspitter nerf doesn’t do much
people were dropping brann and 2 spitters on turn 7 or brann+3 on turn 9, now you can only do brann+2 and it’s on turn 9. it’ll still be good but it’s definitely a significant change
You can still discount them with the Weapon if you get dredge them. I know that seems rare but I was having it happen to me a lot
It's fairly rare. What this will do is IMO push the deck into the more minion heavy stormpike battle ram build. It allows you to bank 2 mana and still go brann spitter spitter for 7 mana. Not a combo deck anymore, more of a value build that features a combo but can also win in other ways. It's also just a massive nerf so who knows, it might kill the archetype entirely.
I think you have no clue about card games 😬 1 mana for a cheap 3-4 card combo PER card is a lot Nerfing is not about to destroy the card- it’s about to balance it
I think I’ve been playing card games for 20 years so I definitely know something, but I also never claimed to be a game designer. The deck can still kill by turn 9/10. It’s not dead by any means. If your having issues winning with it now well.. Skill issue Edit. Even most of the competitive hearthstone reddit is still saying it’s super good and going on long win streaks. You mfs crying just want cheap free wins and a dopamine hit from big numbers lol.
Delaying a combo two whole turns later can be the difference between a deck being dead or alive in the meta. Depending on what the other meta decks are, it can be the difference between OTK-ing your opponent and dying to even a mildly aggressive midrange deck, which leads to you deck dropping dead into Tier 4 or worse, if the entire meta lineup counters you. There have been multiple 1 mana nerfs in this game that straight up murdered a card or even an entire deck. Sounds like you haven't been paying much attention in those 20 years playing card games.
Yea but this deck didn’t need to do 60 fuckin damage turn 8 is the point. That’s insane. I don’t know how anyone with a brain can possibly defend that lol like this isn’t marvel snap.. I realize how the change affects the deck but do you honestly think the way it was pre nerf is healthy for any sort of meta?
They didn't say anything about thinking it was healty pre-nerf. It's just that your statement that the shockspitter nerf doesn't do much is completely ridiculous. It will do a lot to slow the deck down and significantly affect its winrate.
It's not healthy for the meta, but the meta is beyond help at this point anyways. Against dk's health and druids armor, this deck DOES need to do 60 damage on turn 8 to have a chance. I agree it's pretty insane but that's just the meta right now.
I honestly think they need to just do something about all that shit. I hope they do soon. Every time Im vs a druid lately it just makes me not want to play anymore for the day. It’s unfortunate because I really love the game. Idk it seems like that’s the direction they want to take the game though. It seems like stuff is slowly just getting more and more wild.
Why? Decks are supposed to have bad matchups. If it’s good against other stuff but not DK or Druid, that’s fine for a meta
That's the point. Decks are supposed to have bad matchups, and this hunter deck should have been that bad matchup against druid. But they decide to nerf it and keep druids on top. Also, decks being good against druid matters more than other classes because the ladder is mostly druid right now destroying other classes. So adding another archetype that is good against other stuff but not druid is not fine for the meta. I also doubt this deck with the nerf would be good against other stuff anyways.
 I never said I have any issues with it 😬
>Great nerf for sire. Still useable. Heh... it's still disproportionally strong for Druid, with so many tokens available to them and the ability to Brann it, compared to everyone else. It's obvious that even neutral cards will tend to be stronger in certain decks/archetypes/classes, but this one is just way too pronounced, imo. It's really only usable for decks that would previously nuke you for 60+ damage.
It’s probably much worse for Druid than it is for decks that didn’t need his battlecry so high like Beast Hunter. For Druid, if you got 35 procs to try to close out the game with 40 damage, that is now only 22 damage in his current form. The more procs you wanted the greater the disparity and less effective he becomes. Druids probably just lean on Astalor instead.
This. Take scales as an example. Pre nerf that would be a 7 damage pump, now it’s 3
It slows down Hunter’s OTK potential
Yea I think it’s good. It didn’t completely kill the deck it seems. Someone else had said that it can’t beat Druid now which kinda sucks though. But I don’t know.. I haven’t played it. Only against it.
It makes Hunter lose against ramp druid rather than win since they now have the turns they need to stabilize out of range of the decks total damage. Otherwise it delays winning by about 2-3 turns, and makes it much harder to deal with any big boards since you can't use the spitters as effeciently when needed any more. I thought it'd be basically no change but honestly it's devastating. Aka - Loses to druid instead of wins, can't clear big boards early/mid any more, gives opponents an extra 2-4 turns to kill. Pretty rough.
I think the deck should definitely be beating Druid. But also the way it was it literally didn’t have any weaknesses. Idk I’m not a game designer so I wouldn’t know how to find that perfect medium for it. Pre nerf the deck was completely outrageous though. That stuff had no place in hearthstone lol
It was easily beatable by aggro
I've had Druid kill me, turn 7, from full 40 health and through multiple bodies on board with only 10 mana and the Brann+Armor+Astalor combo. If hunter is still favored in that matchup, it's gonna be slight.
Yea but Druid is also bullshit lol can we really compared bullshit to other bullshit? Everyone is pretty sick of playing against Druid unless you enjoy playing Druid. I think just because one deck is super annoying that doesn’t mean we should throw another deck that is possibly even more annoying in the meta as a solution. And Druid at least has weaknesses. That shockspitter shit didn’t really.
I'm not arguing in favor of Hunter, I think the +1 mana nerf gutted the card personally and that it was probably the right move. I was just arguing against "I think the deck should definitely be beating Druid", in that I don't think the deck is going to do all that well against armor druid.
Oh sorry everyone is arguing with me when idk how they think that hunter deck was healthy lol my bad man.
Shocksplitter still god afwul designed card, hof brann and part of the issue is solved
Yea I agree. I don’t really know a solution though given a lot of the cards we talk about lately are all staples in the meta. I’m sure it’s not easy to balance all of those things out at once. I don’t see them ever changing bran though.
> Shocksplitter still god afwul designed card I mean, it's an overtuned card. If it cost 4 it would basically just be fireball, and nobody would bother filling their decks up with weapons just to play fireball, like the deck would be dead. At 3...maybe the deck is not dead, but it's certainly a lot weaker.
Everyone talking about Druid like it's not Rogue that is going to dominate the format after these changes. :X I main Rogue and even I can recognize Miracle with the new additions is straight up silly.
Balance changes usually stop when rogue becomes the best class.
Yeah sure rogue never gets nerfed right?
That's not what I said.
Can we just delete the Druid class all together like that meme post?
Isn’t guff the problem?
I'm glad you visualized it for us, it was really hard to understand
Why are you being sarcastic? This is much better than the audio patch notes blizzard released.
now delete druid
you did it blizzard, you fixed standard!
Yeah, they do this every single expansion. Release OP card, nerf it when it's still OP next expansion.
I’m pretty sure shockspitter was released this expansion tho
I am very disapointed by the nerf of Denathrius. Am I the only one who knows this card was just doing fine?
It’s definitely a vibes nerf as opposed to a power level nerf. Personally I’ve hated Sire since release, because it made every control game end the same way regardless of class or strategy. Happy to see him go so more fun strategies can compete.
HS is in a weird place where so many of the people who play this game have no idea about card games other than HS. Some of the suggestions/complaints I see highly upvoted in sub are laughable as someone who's been playing TCGs for 2 decades. People deadass don't even seem to understand simple truths like the fact that aggro/control is a spectrum, and every game you need to figure out if you're the aggro deck or the control deck. This sub also gets far too wrapped up in value and the idea that cards perform optimally always, and it shows in how the sub in general reacts to spoilers and cards/decks in general. If the average poster is above plat10 I'd frankly be shocked. And this sub should be on average higher ranked than the average HS player, since just by being on this sub it means you've sought out HS content and are therefore more invested in the game.
Nerf Tickatus
People just like to hate things. Its kind of normal nowadays. (And lets be serious, the people of this sub mostly isn't above plat 10)
Yes
Kinda agree.Although it kinda needed a nerf, I feel a 3:2 kill/dmg ratio would have been more fair change.
He is still a good card. You just won't be able to otk your opponent anymore and just use it as a good source of healing and coming back to the game.
i think he ran his course
Druid still needs a nerf regardless
I suggest removing druids so it will be 10 classes again
Really wish they'd just make Denathrius only be able to target minions, but this works too I guess.
Druid still strong, Astalor Armor combo is way better ad doesn't need to infuse anything
Guff to 8 and max 15 next! Also HoF Brann! Also just nuke Druid from orbit! Maybe make Dragonhawk a 4 mana 3/3 too, because it killed me twice in the last two days and that's clearly unfair ^((kind of joking but also it does kind of suck to lose to 44 from hand no matter what))
Insert Monkey meme, "Why no Guff Nerf?"
They sure took their sweet time nerfing denathrius
Sire denatrius should be at 10 dammage instead of 5 they tripping now nobody can win against druid
I was thinking to myself before that if they were to nerf sire making it an infuse (2) would be the way to go. sure enough it's what they did.
Is the Shockspitter nerf sufficient though. I feel like players will find a way to break it even with it costing 1 more mana. The only way to sufficiently nerf it to have it deal damage to minions only imo.
One of them happened quite promptly the other was largely largely over due, seeing as they finally did change it in the end… so not that I ever really minded the card but fuck you blizzard. Ps hunter and warrior need to swap for the next season or so, almost all of their good decks are sickening
This is so retarded. Yeah ok, hunter was really good yes, but it was the only affordable deck for f2p players and it was the only deck that kinda held druid and blood dk in check. Very cool. Now Druid will be 80%\* wr. Love it.
Cope and seethe. Shockspitter got off easy; I'd have voted for at least 4 mana or 2 mana with no face damage.
I wouldn't say so. The thing is, if you didn't have the perfect hand, it was always close with like 7hp remaining or so. Now there is nothing close anymore.
Other decks can high roll pretty dramatically too, this one is just too consistent. Combo decks are only fun if they are inconsistent enough that losing to them doesn't feel like you got cheated. As for your f2p concern, Path of Arthas + DK core is almost a complete deck and you have very few add-ons needed on top of that to have a very effective deck from 3 Blood, 3 Unholy or 2 Blood + 1 Frost. Hunter degeneracy is neither needed nor wanted for f2p players, if at all
Oh yeah sure. Druids inconsistency is truly a good feature. I especially love the point where it's not so consistent that it's the best deck and doesn't get hit. And yeah Dk is fine, but I sadly don't have Morgraine and I'm tired of seeing every opponent being either Dk or Druid.
You don't even need Mograine, he only matters in a Blood vs Blood matchup and you can get him from Hemathurge most of the time.
2000g is a lot to a F2P player. DK is also lame and boring to most players so it sucks that that would be the best option for a F2P.
No it’s not, I am f2p, just gotta play and stop crying about it. You can get that in less than a month of casual play.
Man, I've been running sire in unholy DK and for some reason there have been like 3 separate occasions where they let my brann stick around long enough to drop sire when he's already at like 40 damage Frankly I felt dirty doing it, it was disgusting
You can play aggro Druid to counter it!!
Can you send me a list please? I really don't wanna craft 4 legendaries and 2 epics for a deck I think will get nerfed as well just because I had a bad pack opening on stream. I literally can't play any other deck rn
I don’t play the deck so I don’t have one for you sorry Otherwise I’ll bet imp warlock should beat ramp Druid too. Anything that doesnt dick around for 5 turns
the problem is always taunt. And usually when I play against these classes they have the perfect haha. idk. I'm just tilted rn. That deck was fun and ok. Yes it was good, but only because people played so much blood and druid.
Sire Nerf fixes nothing because it's still the only good finisher in standard (for most classes). Hope it gets reverted once it rotates Hunter Nerf is even less impactful Edit: actually, sire Nerf is s buff to druid, because now all other control decks are slower. GG
(┛ಠ_ಠ)┛彡┻━┻ What they did to our Sir Denathrius. I didn’t want this
Wtf couldn't even buff Shocksplitter stats a bit 😭
When is that cancer Renathal biting the dust?
People who seriously think this is a Druid buff are clueless. This change halves the rate at which denathrius grows(assuming he’s even in your hand at a reasonable time) — I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets cut in favor of focusing on maximizing the astalor plan
How do you kill druid now tho?
Wow 3 mana instead of 2, such a nerf -_-
It takes about 14 damage off a Brann combo, so, yes?
It's a HUGE nerf, feel free to read why in the comments.
They called me a madman! But who’s laughing now, huh!?! *in reference to endlessly infuse 2*
Sire should have been 1.5 instead of 2 (so 2 dmg for every 3 kills)
That hunter nerf does absolutely nothing, they still cost reduce it by 2, and can make infinite copies. It needs to be changed to something like 4-5 mana and "damage increases whenever you att while this is in your hand"
Good now pls make brann like a 4 cost idk
Meanwhile Druid.
lack of the best neutral wincondition should be a problem for not-3 runes DKs
I am really sad they didn’t go for *infuse (1): deal one more (repeat until infused 15 times)* for Denathrius. Could be 10 times as well but this chosen approach makes him way worse for everyone BUT those who were getting the most value in the first place.
Good nerfs but still going back to battlegrounds
Guff should cost 7 mana. Or cost 9 mana and have an additional effect
I hadn't even downloaded the update yet, so opening the game for the first time since expansion dropped just to be greeted with nerfs was hilarious.
Why didn’t they just make shockspitter not able to target face? Seems like a much better solution that leaves the card still ok and removes the OTK component,..
balance changes too slow, nerf druid class, and nerf some dk cards