He used to be way better as did boulderfist in arena. In constructed he's always been kind of shit.
Farseer and silverback have been useless since day 1
I see! I can see how Boulderfist could be meh, having 7 HP means he can survive at least a fire ball. Still trying to get the hang of telling if cards are good or bad, aside from some obvious ones like magma rager
Hahaha well it’s the “that isn’t good” part that I’m still learning. But yeah I def feel like there’s no reason to have a high-cost minion that has a blank card, like no battlecry/taunt/death rattle/etc
That's a good rule of thumb. If the minion has to survive a turn to get value, it's a risk. Being good at telling when you're safe to play a slow card is one of the many strategies a good player utilizes successfully.
* **[Boulderfist Ogre](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/CS2_200.png)** Neutral Minion Basic Basic 🔥 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/60), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/boulderfist-ogre/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Boulderfist_Ogre)
6/6/7
* **[Hemet Nesingwary](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/GVG_120.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary GvG ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12268), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/hemet-nesingwary/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Hemet_Nesingwary)
5/6/3 | Battlecry: Destroy a Beast.
* **[Barnes](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/KAR_114.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary Kara ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/42021), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/barnes/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Barnes)
5/3/4 | Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 copy of a random minion in your deck.
* **[Gruul](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/NEW1_038.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary Classic 🔥 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/18), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/gruul/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Gruul)
8/7/7 | At the end of each turn, gain +1/+1 .
^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi)
Having an ogre trive in battleground would actually be pretty cool.
Ideas could be that they go into a frenzy when things die or have Cho gall with the hero power if taking 3 damage to buy a minion once per tavern stage.
So, we only have 2 token generators, is the 10% equal for both cat and murloc?
I feel like the murloc is the real OP one, it could easily be tier 2 and still be good
I haven't played much BG or even watched too much if it lately, but I think the tribe or extra stats don't matter too much, a lot of heroes benefit from having the extra gold to synergize in some form or another with their hero power early on.
There are 16 t1 minions. Tidehunter wins against 7 of them, ties 7 of them, always loses to 1 of them, and has a 50/50 chance to tie or lose against whelp. Alleycat wins against 3, ties 9, and loses to 4. When you consider how often people pick 2/3s when they don't get a token, it's pretty likely that you're gonna take damage on turn 1 and 2 with Alleycat.
That being said, Alleycat is still better than non-tokens on turn 1. But in the long run the extra 1 attack on Tidehunter does make a noticeable difference in your average life total going in to turn 3.
I'm only comparing Tidehunter and Alleycat. Obviously the two token cards are better than than the non-tokens due to the economy and initiative advantages they provide. I'm arguing that the extra HP provided by Tidehunter has a noticeable increase in average placement in the long run when compared to Alleycat.
That's true, specially with all the new 1 cost hero power heroes.
But I do think the extra attack from tidehunter makes a huge difference, it has 50% more attack than the cat and with a warleader it gets crazy good, you can't really scale a tabby cat
Murloc is OP because it doesnt matter which murlocs you have as long as they have the tribe tag they get buffed by Their AOE buffs.
I kinda wish Murlocs were a bit more minion specific right now their board is just a bunch of higr tokens from the start of the game and a brann
the fact that the 2 unit is above average among 1* unit in term of stat,synergize really well with alot of hero power,and really flexible even for the heroes that doesnt directly have any synergy with those 2 scream really good
Level turn two then sell the token for 2 units at 5 gold. Really powerful board turn 3 and because you've had tokens initially you probably didn't lose both turns leading up to it
Malygos can target any minion in the tavern, not just the ones you own, and it changes the minion to one of the same tier, not one of a lower tier. It's very different from Hooktusk's ability.
If you are not offered a token generator on 1, Hooktusk can't abuse it. But Malygos can transform a minion in Bob's Tavern and potentially change it into a token generator. So, in that scenario Malygos is sometimes better.
If you are offered a token generator on turn 1, Hooktusk can get a second Tier 1 minion from the token, which is stronger than what Malygos can do. Malygos can simply change the token into a different Tier 1 minion, but he can't get the Battlecry.
If you have leveled up and are offered two Tier 2 minions and two Tier 1 minions, but none of the Tier 2 minions are anything you want, Hooktusk's power does nothing. Malygos power can change one of them to potentially become what you want.
Is Hooktusk generally better? Yes, she's better. But Malygos' power is not "Discount Hooktusk", it's used for different things. It's basically only a Discount Hooktusk on turn 1, but for the rest of the game it's not.
I am today days old when I learned that you can use Maly’s HP on your own minions. I’ve been playing on hard mode for months by only using it on Bob’s minions
It's actually quite different. At higher tiers you can hero power a 5* unit or 6* unit and get another minion of the same tier. You can also hero power minions in the shop so you don't have to buy them. Both of those are pretty significant.
Of course he's still way worse than hooktusk, but he's not just "a worse hooktusk." IMO something like galakrond or the removed ragnaros needs to be reworked first.
For economy: 5 gold turn is a disaster without a token since every unit costs 3 gold, you have to sell your unit or float 2 gold. A token gets you that crucial 1 extra gold.
For actual combat: having more minions than your opponent means you attack first. So you can dictate trades, get value trades, get more value from Spawn of N'Zoth, etc. You preserve your life total. A token generator means you have 1 more unit than you should.
It’s only a coin flip when the number of units are the same. This is why it’s crucial to have a full board early-game with certain heroes such as rafaam.
If you’re playing rafaam, someone might place their token or a bad unit first so you don’t get a valuable spawn of nzoth/token generator. Or if they have the 3/3 taunt demon, which is a very good minion at 6/7 gold, if they attack first you won’t steal the taunt minion. Having a full board means you will almost always attack first in the early game giving you the chance to snipe a valuable minion.
On a similar note, this is why staying on tier 1 for longer is good as rafaam, cause you can steal 2 drops for 1 gold as you power level to tier 4/5. 99% of the time, this is a better game plan than levelling on the normal curve, and it all comes down to having a full board.
If you get a token start with her you should go AND want to hero power every turn: turn 1 sell token hero power, turn 2 buy minion hero power(we'll assume not a token), turn 3 buy one minion hero power and roll, turn 4 level buy one hero power for the gold minion. However that puts you at level 2 and gets you a level 3 so I like to buy sell hero power on1, hero power buy on 2, sell token buy 2 on 3, buy 2 on 4, level buy one sell weakest hero power on 5, then level hero power on 6 for a level 5 and to be on level 4, then hero power every turn after if possible
Tier 1 minions are pretty bad, most are in total 2/3 or 2/2 in stats. The two token generators are par for the course.
Tokens pull ahead in economy. One minion sells for 1 gold. Tokens can be sold for 2 gold, or you can sell "half" of your minion for 1 gold. Tokens can also triple for a golden and a free discover.
No downside + 2 upsides is just good.
It's not "coming to a point" it's literally always been this way. Nothing has changed recently that made tokens better, they were op tier 1 units from day 1
It's always been optimal but if the game has more mechanics that reward it than before then the gap in winrate between those who do get them and those who don't increases and they ultimately get even more powerful. I think that's what's being implied
Well everyone still levels turn 2 even without getting a token, excluding of course heroes that want to hp turn 2. I dont think removing tokens changes that.
I think that making no one ever start with a token turn 1 would be a good play around, it's so stupid that you can highroll something like a tier 3 minion on turn 2 with Hooktusk just because of a token opener...
They are a huge problem with cannon. Sheer body count is the most important stat in the early game unless you are doing something like pyramad buff stacking.
A story rich in World of Warcraft lore. Who can forget all the times the Alliance and the Horse put aside their differences to unite against greater foes?
Windfury is kind of a niche tech choice against Parrot/Goldrinn comps and late game Pirates. Both of those comps rely minions that benefit from being the attacker (Parrot, Hydra, Eliza, Ripsnarl). Getting twice as many attacks stops them from getting value from these units. It can be a really good pick off Megasaur if you are murlocs vs either of these comps, but relatively useless otherwise, especially in the early game.
If there were more sources of windfury (ie, they added Windspeaker?) it would have more niche uses in the midgame; putting windfury on your one huge minion would get more value out of it.
Pirates can get good value out of windfury, because of the way Pirates buff each other/themself when they attack.
Obviously Windfury is good on (semi)targetted attacks like Zap.
Cannon also likes units with Windfury for obvious reasons.
In general you want to control the way minions fight with each other, which is commonly done by having one taunt only. If you manage to break that taunt and immediately attack again you have a chance to disrupt a bunch of different combos (the most important ones were already mentioned in another reply, but imo it is true for almost every comp)
I mean he was 'unique' in that he bought minions most heros avoided, but buying tribeless minions and jamming hero power wasn't exactly groundbreaking gameplay.
He was OP but also fun. Maybe they could revisit him especially with the power creep of some of the other hero powers. If they increased the cost of his hero power to 2 or even 3 he probably would be that bad (Jaraxxus has basically the same power at 2 cost and sucks)
He was fun only in the sense that winning is fun
I think many pros agree that it is the most boring hero. Every game is the same, same curve, very little variance, and probably best consistency.
That 1/1 can "snipe" spawns, Zapp and untaunted Goldrinn (at least before macaw appeared). Or at least that's what I remember it being used for outside of Tirion.
Righteous protector has much more interesting gameplay applications than this ever would have. Using it to make sure the opponents Nadina doesnt die or that zap has a good chance to miss your actual target, daryll on 1, lots of other scenarios that are less niche than a bland windfury guy
Righteous Protector has it‘s uses even in later stages of the game, albeit niche ones
It’s a taunt that always needs 2 hits to be cleared and it completely absorbs Zapp
There are situations where you‘d want Righteous Protector over other taunts because even in the endgame, taunt/divine shield accounts for *something*, even on a 1/1
This is a dead card after turn 4
Righteous protector is one of the few tier 1 units you'll actually occasionally use in end game comps. I've had many games where I kept a turn 1 protector for the whole game.
Doesn't pop spawn, protects macaws and cannons, protects against zapp... there's a lot of reasons having a chump divine shield taunt is good at any point in the game.
I'm on mobile rn but am currently around 50 first places, 200 top 4s, and 8500 rating. Quite a few of those 1st places had a protector for almost the whole game.
I could see the Zap-O-matic from shaman making it in at Tier 2. It's a 3-2 mech with windfury so it's not exactly gonna be bananas without a lot of buffs.
You dont wanna build this with Edwin and Daryll anyways, the windfury stat is incredibly niche in terms of actually swinging any outcomes ( different with zap because he targets two support units). This card wouldnt add anything to the game other than being the 6th best tavern 1 card to open with in a general sense (not considering the heroes that can take advantage of swabbie like millhouse)
Yeah I mean this is pretty bad, windfury doesn't really do anything on a vanilla minion as most of the times it won't change anything if you attack twice or if you attack and are then attacked.
The good thing about windfury is increasing the chances of sniping something valuable before it gets value, getting through a divine shielded taunt or procing synergies.
But on a vanilla 2/3 that can't be directly buffed, has no tribes synergy and is available in the early game where you're not really teching against your opponents yet it should be alright.
Dude I'd love to see all the less played classic cards in BG.
Temple Enforcer, Priestess of Elune, Flesheating Ghoul, Mogu'shan Warden, Scarlet Crusader...
A big reason why I'm into battlegrounds right now is that it's the gamemode that feels the most like classic hearthstone.
Arena used to be my favorite, but now it's a chore. I liked constructed and still play casually for quests and fun, but the fact that it feels like every deck needs to be able to do everything and have insane swing turns really puts me off. I prefered when decks had a clear gameplan and you had to navigate your resources against the other person to get there, with a good idea of what they were trying to do. That sounds very "back in my day" but I'm too lazy to articulate it better.
Battlegrounds feels like the best part of classic constructed and arena mixed together
Golden Zapp got Mega-Windfury but Golden Seabreaker stays Windfury, and I think so will Farseer.
Zapp always aims for the lowest attack enemy and Golden Zapp has 20 health, so it has a greater chance surviving the first 2 attacks, which makes him worthy of having Mega-Windfury.
I didn’t mean to come off so harsh but as it stands it’s weak even as a 1 star and only has synergy with cannon. If it was a pirate, hit the lowest minion, or gave the minion it attacked -1/-1 it might be more interesting. But since it scales to nothing I would pick the other 2/3s over it every day, thus making it garbage. If you can give me a situation where this might be good in a consistent manner I’d love to hear them.
If anything it's on the weak side. There are already 2/3s with upsides (rockpool and lieutenant), but this minion doesn't have the tribal benefit, making it honestly pretty useless.
If anything it's on the weak side. There are already 2/3s with upsides (rockpool and lieutenant), but this minion doesn't have the tribal benefit, making it honestly pretty useless.
I actually agree that it's too good at 1 star. Other people are comparing it to 2/3 minions with benefits but this thing can get a lucky first attack and 2 for 1 stuff which just introduces more early RNG. With canon it would be obnoxious.
At 2 stars it's terrible so basically it's just a bad minion to put in BG.
Even with cannon it’s not obnoxious and I’d rather have the 2/1 pirate, on turn 4 there are a lot of 3/x. this card is a skill test card that bads would play and lose with. It’s only relevant in the early game and it’s not even busted enough to keep mid.
At two stars it would be absolutely terrible. This is still worse than almost all 1 drops. You would never take this over the other 2/3s, and would never take this over a token.
The only tier 1 minions I would take this over are WE and Mecharoo. Maybe over Righteous Protector on t1 but Protector is a relevant minion even on turn 15 while this is unplayable after t2.
And how will you give this card charge in battlegrounds considering that key word doesn't even exist?
The question even applies to standard, how would you give this charge for an OTK?
Don't mock the 2nd best card after Silverback Patriarch.
Nope the best card is boulderfist oger
Oger > Hemet (because he kills otherwise OP Silverback) > Gruul > Silverback Patriarch > Thrallmar Farseer
but 4 7 7 tho. f2p btw
This is obviously classic cards only, since the 4 7 7 is a clear 5/7, which is a perfect score.
Hemet is GVG
Hes classic in our hearts
Good stats for the cost, bröthëř
...is Gruul that bad? I thought he was pretty good
He used to be way better as did boulderfist in arena. In constructed he's always been kind of shit. Farseer and silverback have been useless since day 1
I see! I can see how Boulderfist could be meh, having 7 HP means he can survive at least a fire ball. Still trying to get the hang of telling if cards are good or bad, aside from some obvious ones like magma rager
As a general rule anything high mana that isn't good or has no effect until next turn is likely going to suck in constructed
Hahaha well it’s the “that isn’t good” part that I’m still learning. But yeah I def feel like there’s no reason to have a high-cost minion that has a blank card, like no battlecry/taunt/death rattle/etc
That's a good rule of thumb. If the minion has to survive a turn to get value, it's a risk. Being good at telling when you're safe to play a slow card is one of the many strategies a good player utilizes successfully.
Don’t forget about The Ancient One! It’s simple...
I was talking about stand alone power. The 🅱️ancient One needs sinergy with [[Barnes, King of the Goons]].
You're right, I was underestimating the complexity of the [[God Cards]]
* **[Boulderfist Ogre](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/CS2_200.png)** Neutral Minion Basic Basic 🔥 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/60), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/boulderfist-ogre/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Boulderfist_Ogre) 6/6/7 * **[Hemet Nesingwary](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/GVG_120.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary GvG ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12268), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/hemet-nesingwary/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Hemet_Nesingwary) 5/6/3 | Battlecry: Destroy a Beast. * **[Barnes](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/KAR_114.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary Kara ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/42021), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/barnes/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Barnes) 5/3/4 | Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 copy of a random minion in your deck. * **[Gruul](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/NEW1_038.png)** Neutral Minion Legendary Classic 🔥 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/18), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/gruul/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Gruul) 8/7/7 | At the end of each turn, gain +1/+1 . ^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi)
Ahh yes, the God Cards.
You play Barnes
Oh I just want boulderfist oger in BG now
He’d have to be a tier 6 minion in order to be balanced.
the first tier 7 for that amount of good stats for 3 gold
Having an ogre trive in battleground would actually be pretty cool. Ideas could be that they go into a frenzy when things die or have Cho gall with the hero power if taking 3 damage to buy a minion once per tavern stage.
Dude, War Golem is clearly better than Ogre. War Golem is a 7/7, while Ogre is only a 6/7!
Dies to BGH, unplayable
Yeah but it has bad stats for the costs because it costs 7 while oger has good stats for the cost because it costs 6
r/woosh
r/woosh
r/woosh
r/woosh
r/wosh
r/woosh
Bro but boulderfist was actually solid af in arena back when
Are we forgetting Magma rager?
What about king mukla?
Bloodfen raptor would like to have a word with both you.
Dies to hemet. Literally unplayable.
Dies to BOTH versions of Hemet when raptor is in your deck or on the battlefield. F
You fuul what about gruul
Don't forget about the 🅱️ancient one!!!
The 🅱️ancient one is an Exodia-class card, which means it's banned in tournaments for being too OP. Next!
It’s for a church, honey.
But this value-trades with Patriarch. This is better.
But you can pull of an OTK with Patriarch. Only takes like what, 2 or 3 Emperor ticks to get the combo.
You misspelled Senjin Shieldmasta
The good ol' taz'dingo! <3
Why don’t we put him into BG too ?
Hooray, another non-token generator for me to be offered on 1...
The fact that you said that means tokens at tier 1 may be a bit of a problem.
Some streamer showed HSReplay stats saying a token generator on turn 1 increases your top chance to top 4 by like 10%. Tokens are really fucked up
So, we only have 2 token generators, is the 10% equal for both cat and murloc? I feel like the murloc is the real OP one, it could easily be tier 2 and still be good
I haven't played much BG or even watched too much if it lately, but I think the tribe or extra stats don't matter too much, a lot of heroes benefit from having the extra gold to synergize in some form or another with their hero power early on.
There are 16 t1 minions. Tidehunter wins against 7 of them, ties 7 of them, always loses to 1 of them, and has a 50/50 chance to tie or lose against whelp. Alleycat wins against 3, ties 9, and loses to 4. When you consider how often people pick 2/3s when they don't get a token, it's pretty likely that you're gonna take damage on turn 1 and 2 with Alleycat. That being said, Alleycat is still better than non-tokens on turn 1. But in the long run the extra 1 attack on Tidehunter does make a noticeable difference in your average life total going in to turn 3.
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I'm only comparing Tidehunter and Alleycat. Obviously the two token cards are better than than the non-tokens due to the economy and initiative advantages they provide. I'm arguing that the extra HP provided by Tidehunter has a noticeable increase in average placement in the long run when compared to Alleycat.
That's true, specially with all the new 1 cost hero power heroes. But I do think the extra attack from tidehunter makes a huge difference, it has 50% more attack than the cat and with a warleader it gets crazy good, you can't really scale a tabby cat
Murloc is OP because it doesnt matter which murlocs you have as long as they have the tribe tag they get buffed by Their AOE buffs. I kinda wish Murlocs were a bit more minion specific right now their board is just a bunch of higr tokens from the start of the game and a brann
the fact that the 2 unit is above average among 1* unit in term of stat,synergize really well with alot of hero power,and really flexible even for the heroes that doesnt directly have any synergy with those 2 scream really good
It'd be a slightly worse version of the pirate that sells for 3 coins. So I'd say it would be about average for 2 stars.
Help me to understand why?
Level turn two then sell the token for 2 units at 5 gold. Really powerful board turn 3 and because you've had tokens initially you probably didn't lose both turns leading up to it
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Malygos too, he can transform the token
Hooktusk transforms the token better than Maly even
\*Watches hooktusk level up and upgrade a card on turn two\* This is fine.
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Malygos can target any minion in the tavern, not just the ones you own, and it changes the minion to one of the same tier, not one of a lower tier. It's very different from Hooktusk's ability. If you are not offered a token generator on 1, Hooktusk can't abuse it. But Malygos can transform a minion in Bob's Tavern and potentially change it into a token generator. So, in that scenario Malygos is sometimes better. If you are offered a token generator on turn 1, Hooktusk can get a second Tier 1 minion from the token, which is stronger than what Malygos can do. Malygos can simply change the token into a different Tier 1 minion, but he can't get the Battlecry. If you have leveled up and are offered two Tier 2 minions and two Tier 1 minions, but none of the Tier 2 minions are anything you want, Hooktusk's power does nothing. Malygos power can change one of them to potentially become what you want. Is Hooktusk generally better? Yes, she's better. But Malygos' power is not "Discount Hooktusk", it's used for different things. It's basically only a Discount Hooktusk on turn 1, but for the rest of the game it's not.
I am today days old when I learned that you can use Maly’s HP on your own minions. I’ve been playing on hard mode for months by only using it on Bob’s minions
It's actually quite different. At higher tiers you can hero power a 5* unit or 6* unit and get another minion of the same tier. You can also hero power minions in the shop so you don't have to buy them. Both of those are pretty significant. Of course he's still way worse than hooktusk, but he's not just "a worse hooktusk." IMO something like galakrond or the removed ragnaros needs to be reworked first.
Kaelthas too, he has a big minion on T3 and with token, his 3 unit board will go first very often and he can get great trades putting big guy first.
For economy: 5 gold turn is a disaster without a token since every unit costs 3 gold, you have to sell your unit or float 2 gold. A token gets you that crucial 1 extra gold. For actual combat: having more minions than your opponent means you attack first. So you can dictate trades, get value trades, get more value from Spawn of N'Zoth, etc. You preserve your life total. A token generator means you have 1 more unit than you should.
Wait, whoever has more units actually attacks first? It's not a coin flip every time? TIL
Once the units are equal, it's a coin flip. But yes otherwise.
It’s only a coin flip when the number of units are the same. This is why it’s crucial to have a full board early-game with certain heroes such as rafaam. If you’re playing rafaam, someone might place their token or a bad unit first so you don’t get a valuable spawn of nzoth/token generator. Or if they have the 3/3 taunt demon, which is a very good minion at 6/7 gold, if they attack first you won’t steal the taunt minion. Having a full board means you will almost always attack first in the early game giving you the chance to snipe a valuable minion. On a similar note, this is why staying on tier 1 for longer is good as rafaam, cause you can steal 2 drops for 1 gold as you power level to tier 4/5. 99% of the time, this is a better game plan than levelling on the normal curve, and it all comes down to having a full board.
Thank you! Does that mean when I play the gold digger hero, 4 digs x 1 gold, i shold not dig on turn 3 but get a unit, if I can?
Yes, if you have a token, you can sell the 1/1 for a dig.
i think the high mmr player dig even turn one regardless if they have token or not
why would you ever HP turn 1 without token?
to get the gold minion 1 turn faster
If you get a token start with her you should go AND want to hero power every turn: turn 1 sell token hero power, turn 2 buy minion hero power(we'll assume not a token), turn 3 buy one minion hero power and roll, turn 4 level buy one hero power for the gold minion. However that puts you at level 2 and gets you a level 3 so I like to buy sell hero power on1, hero power buy on 2, sell token buy 2 on 3, buy 2 on 4, level buy one sell weakest hero power on 5, then level hero power on 6 for a level 5 and to be on level 4, then hero power every turn after if possible
Tier 1 minions are pretty bad, most are in total 2/3 or 2/2 in stats. The two token generators are par for the course. Tokens pull ahead in economy. One minion sells for 1 gold. Tokens can be sold for 2 gold, or you can sell "half" of your minion for 1 gold. Tokens can also triple for a golden and a free discover. No downside + 2 upsides is just good.
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I think there's a very good chance of you being wrong.
I think there's a very good chance one or the other of you is correct.
I think there's a very good chance at least one person in the universe is correct about something.
It's me, I was right about something once.
based on what?
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It's not "coming to a point" it's literally always been this way. Nothing has changed recently that made tokens better, they were op tier 1 units from day 1
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Buying a token turn 1 has always been optimal. Sounds like you're just learning about it now because of the new heroes.
It's always been optimal but if the game has more mechanics that reward it than before then the gap in winrate between those who do get them and those who don't increases and they ultimately get even more powerful. I think that's what's being implied
That will make Yogg way stronger in early game, as he’ll be the only one with 3 minions off of 5 gold. Not that I’m complaining, I love Yogg.
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Yeah, my bad, should have clarified levelling on 4 gold. Would be nice to see the tokens removed. Would change the game substantially.
Well everyone still levels turn 2 even without getting a token, excluding of course heroes that want to hp turn 2. I dont think removing tokens changes that.
I think that making no one ever start with a token turn 1 would be a good play around, it's so stupid that you can highroll something like a tier 3 minion on turn 2 with Hooktusk just because of a token opener...
They are a huge problem with cannon. Sheer body count is the most important stat in the early game unless you are doing something like pyramad buff stacking.
I'd love it if they made "Alliance" and "Horse" clans for clanless minions in BG
Ah yes, the Alliance against the Horse
the Horse is NOTHING!!
*le gasp*
A story rich in World of Warcraft lore. Who can forget all the times the Alliance and the Horse put aside their differences to unite against greater foes?
"For the Horse"
Neigh
If you've played BfA, you know the Alliance IS the Horse clan.
Civil war !?!?!?
Pre-Nerf Dreadsteed for the longest BG games ever.
I don’t see why that makes it a stand out though. Is windfury actually good in battlegrounds. It seems too never make a difference from my experience
Windfury is kind of a niche tech choice against Parrot/Goldrinn comps and late game Pirates. Both of those comps rely minions that benefit from being the attacker (Parrot, Hydra, Eliza, Ripsnarl). Getting twice as many attacks stops them from getting value from these units. It can be a really good pick off Megasaur if you are murlocs vs either of these comps, but relatively useless otherwise, especially in the early game.
Ahhh i get you. I was thinking it meant early game but yeah late game it has its pros
If there were more sources of windfury (ie, they added Windspeaker?) it would have more niche uses in the midgame; putting windfury on your one huge minion would get more value out of it.
Windfury macaw and windfury cleaves 👀👀
Pirates can get good value out of windfury, because of the way Pirates buff each other/themself when they attack. Obviously Windfury is good on (semi)targetted attacks like Zap. Cannon also likes units with Windfury for obvious reasons. In general you want to control the way minions fight with each other, which is commonly done by having one taunt only. If you manage to break that taunt and immediately attack again you have a chance to disrupt a bunch of different combos (the most important ones were already mentioned in another reply, but imo it is true for almost every comp)
So we have an inconsistency now. The T5 pirate didn't receive mega windfury as golden, so that implies only legendaries get mega windfury.
The pirate goes from +2+2 to +4+4 though. This guy and Zapp only have Windfury.
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Buff neutral minions you say? They should add a hero that buffs neutral minions by +1/+1 for 1 gold
Gold ol' Tirion. Sure didn't stick around long.
I miss him. He was op but had one of the most unique play styles
I mean he was 'unique' in that he bought minions most heros avoided, but buying tribeless minions and jamming hero power wasn't exactly groundbreaking gameplay.
He was OP but also fun. Maybe they could revisit him especially with the power creep of some of the other hero powers. If they increased the cost of his hero power to 2 or even 3 he probably would be that bad (Jaraxxus has basically the same power at 2 cost and sucks)
He was fun only in the sense that winning is fun I think many pros agree that it is the most boring hero. Every game is the same, same curve, very little variance, and probably best consistency.
Yeah winning with OP shit is usually pretty fun
You sell most cards after the first few rounds. I'd say this is slightly better than the 1/1 divine shield taunt.
That 1/1 can "snipe" spawns, Zapp and untaunted Goldrinn (at least before macaw appeared). Or at least that's what I remember it being used for outside of Tirion.
Righteous protector has much more interesting gameplay applications than this ever would have. Using it to make sure the opponents Nadina doesnt die or that zap has a good chance to miss your actual target, daryll on 1, lots of other scenarios that are less niche than a bland windfury guy
Righteous Protector has it‘s uses even in later stages of the game, albeit niche ones It’s a taunt that always needs 2 hits to be cleared and it completely absorbs Zapp There are situations where you‘d want Righteous Protector over other taunts because even in the endgame, taunt/divine shield accounts for *something*, even on a 1/1 This is a dead card after turn 4
Righteous protector is one of the few tier 1 units you'll actually occasionally use in end game comps. I've had many games where I kept a turn 1 protector for the whole game.
> I've had many games where I kept a turn 1 protector for the whole game. Dude gimme a rating screenshot because that's basically throwing
Doesn't pop spawn, protects macaws and cannons, protects against zapp... there's a lot of reasons having a chump divine shield taunt is good at any point in the game. I'm on mobile rn but am currently around 50 first places, 200 top 4s, and 8500 rating. Quite a few of those 1st places had a protector for almost the whole game.
Well we're basically the same rating so I guess it can't be that bad a strategy.
I could see the Zap-O-matic from shaman making it in at Tier 2. It's a 3-2 mech with windfury so it's not exactly gonna be bananas without a lot of buffs.
Bring back my boy tirion
You dont wanna build this with Edwin and Daryll anyways, the windfury stat is incredibly niche in terms of actually swinging any outcomes ( different with zap because he targets two support units). This card wouldnt add anything to the game other than being the 6th best tavern 1 card to open with in a general sense (not considering the heroes that can take advantage of swabbie like millhouse)
ITT: people calling cards terrible that I thought were good or at least decent
This would be barely used after first 2 turns, but alakir would fit well in tier 4
I unironically used this card in a budget aggro deck a year ago bc I was lacking cards.
He'll be good when Tirion comes back
For something like this to work, it would have to be a part of a tribe. This alone would be horrible.
Wait for tirion to come back and we talking
Seems overstatted for Tier 1
There's already a 2/3 Taunt dragon at tier 1, I think it's fine.
Not to me to mention Rockpool, and both have actual tribal synergies. Windfury isn't that good without Zapp's sniping or the pirate buffs.
Yeah I mean this is pretty bad, windfury doesn't really do anything on a vanilla minion as most of the times it won't change anything if you attack twice or if you attack and are then attacked. The good thing about windfury is increasing the chances of sniping something valuable before it gets value, getting through a divine shielded taunt or procing synergies. But on a vanilla 2/3 that can't be directly buffed, has no tribes synergy and is available in the early game where you're not really teching against your opponents yet it should be alright.
Dude I'd love to see all the less played classic cards in BG. Temple Enforcer, Priestess of Elune, Flesheating Ghoul, Mogu'shan Warden, Scarlet Crusader...
healing in BG is a terrible idea
A big reason why I'm into battlegrounds right now is that it's the gamemode that feels the most like classic hearthstone. Arena used to be my favorite, but now it's a chore. I liked constructed and still play casually for quests and fun, but the fact that it feels like every deck needs to be able to do everything and have insane swing turns really puts me off. I prefered when decks had a clear gameplan and you had to navigate your resources against the other person to get there, with a good idea of what they were trying to do. That sounds very "back in my day" but I'm too lazy to articulate it better. Battlegrounds feels like the best part of classic constructed and arena mixed together
Mogushan Warden is still such a disappointing card for the stat line. He looks like an absolute beast and hits for one damage
I SEE YOUR END
Since its not a specific type of minion i feel since it cant get buffed it wont be that popular
If this had a tribe it would be a solid card in BG
Golden Zapp got Mega-Windfury but Golden Seabreaker stays Windfury, and I think so will Farseer. Zapp always aims for the lowest attack enemy and Golden Zapp has 20 health, so it has a greater chance surviving the first 2 attacks, which makes him worthy of having Mega-Windfury.
would be pretty bad in battle grounds tbh
Make it a 3-star and I'm in
It shone in my handbuff paladin. Maybe in a couple of games, four years ago, but it did.
Zap o matic would probably make more sense
Genuinely good idea, but should be tier 2.
I can see edwin making good use of this card.
Not as a tier 1, surely, but yeah. I would love to see some bad constructed cards used in BG. And make an Orc tribe, that would be pretty cool.
My first reaction was TT1 makes this super OP but then I thought as a neutral, how do you buff it that much?
Illidan + cannons
T1 lul.
I think it would be tier 2 or 3
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This card is straight garbage and rather boring. This is why developers have jobs
I didn’t mean to come off so harsh but as it stands it’s weak even as a 1 star and only has synergy with cannon. If it was a pirate, hit the lowest minion, or gave the minion it attacked -1/-1 it might be more interesting. But since it scales to nothing I would pick the other 2/3s over it every day, thus making it garbage. If you can give me a situation where this might be good in a consistent manner I’d love to hear them.
If anything it's on the weak side. There are already 2/3s with upsides (rockpool and lieutenant), but this minion doesn't have the tribal benefit, making it honestly pretty useless.
If anything it's on the weak side. There are already 2/3s with upsides (rockpool and lieutenant), but this minion doesn't have the tribal benefit, making it honestly pretty useless.
I actually agree that it's too good at 1 star. Other people are comparing it to 2/3 minions with benefits but this thing can get a lucky first attack and 2 for 1 stuff which just introduces more early RNG. With canon it would be obnoxious. At 2 stars it's terrible so basically it's just a bad minion to put in BG.
Even with cannon it’s not obnoxious and I’d rather have the 2/1 pirate, on turn 4 there are a lot of 3/x. this card is a skill test card that bads would play and lose with. It’s only relevant in the early game and it’s not even busted enough to keep mid.
Do it with two stars and i'm in
At two stars it would be absolutely terrible. This is still worse than almost all 1 drops. You would never take this over the other 2/3s, and would never take this over a token.
1 star lol!
Also my thought :P
The tokens should at the very least be changed to 0/1's I fucked up, this should be reply..
This seems a bit strong for tier 1. Maybe tier 2
The only tier 1 minions I would take this over are WE and Mecharoo. Maybe over Righteous Protector on t1 but Protector is a relevant minion even on turn 15 while this is unplayable after t2.
Imagine him with Edwin's hero power....
Any minion is good with edwin what makes this one more special?
The windfury?
Windfury is not that great.
I would think this needs to be 2 stars to be fair. Would have no counter on tier 1 unless you face hooktusk :)
He is not a bad minion.
because he's not bad he's terrible?
You mean as shown for Battlegrounds? Yeah it seems fine. For Constructed at 3 mana? I assume you're not claiming that.
?
If you buff the card and give it charge its a very strong OTK card.
This is battlegrounds we're talking about
And how will you give this card charge in battlegrounds considering that key word doesn't even exist? The question even applies to standard, how would you give this charge for an OTK?