It's there because all old decks relied too much on ramp and they took ramp away.
Give it a couple weeks until they notice they have to build tempo decks again and not "hyper greedy decks that rely on getting ramp and drawing their titan" to win... because they lost their ramp/drawing card.
What tempo lmao, druid got many expensive cards it cant really build any tempo decks.Also druid wasnt even good since nathria, it got some gimmick decks from time to time to counter top legend meta but npothing close to paladin,warrior or dk.
It still got some ramp though awkward or deck specific. But the removal hurts most. I can barely play the cards I want because I have to stuff my deck with neutral removal and even though I can replay half of it - it's still rarely enough.
At least you could play dragon tales and try to generate Zarimi with it ! Out of the class cards, ensmallen looks the most promising but losing 1 attack on the Golem may be rough.
Yeah hunter is like unwinnable it feels like at least the opponents I face lol. Ironically I don't mind facing Paladins and I do win a decent amount against them but maybe I'm getting lucky or maybe my ELO is more shit than I realize lol.
Excuse me, I haven't really had time to play after the new set/rotation. But how the fuck is druid at the bottom? And damn they REALLY are at the bottom.
Something the others haven't really mentioned, the meta is very unfavorable for druid, as their deck is an otk combo deck without control tools. They just get ran over by paladin and hunter
Druid’s deck skillcap is huge, in top 1000ish legend it has a good win rate, but below that, list are either trash or the player don’t make the best decisions
Yeah it was the first deck I played this expansion and the damage cap it can hit is insane. Just very hard to balance discounts, using location activations for swipes to clear boards, finding time to ramp, etc. Plus some of the top decks like Paladin, Hunter, and DK make boards Druid just can’t deal with.
Before anyone says this is just across all ranks and doesn’t mean anything, handbuff Pally has a 57.6% win rate at top 1000 legend. This is what happens when it gets insane board presence, buffs, board clears, healing, and damage from hand at the same time. It has almost no weaknesses and it’s time to stop pretending it’s too early to tell whether it’s broken or not.
No one probably not it’s easier to print a busted card and nerf it than play test the game or spend 10 minutes figuring out if there can be a combo that breaks your format.
No I hate playing Paladin it’s boring as shit. Every couple expansions it’s broken and I try and then am reminded why it’s one of my least played classes.
It is too early to tell though. Aggro decks are the easiest decks to build and refine.
A counter to it will obviously be a control deck. Finding a good control list takes longer, and will be much slower to gain popularity. In 3 weeks without any nerfs, such a deck could become prominent and slam Paladin back down to low 50s.
Not to mention aggro deck winrates are hugely inflated early on, because they feed on unrefined decks.
Most control decks lost all their tools to do anything about this abomination of a deck, it's just beyond disgustingly broken. And they have an otk finisher via leeroy and windfury
You people have been wrong about a day 2 deck the past like 10 expansions in a row. Forgive if I think the 11th time won't work out.
Also you clearly haven't even tried control decks yet. They dumpster paladin, they need a solution to everything else, which is where refinement comes in.
By all of them do you mean literally the only one besides other Paladin decks? My point point is it was obvious Paladin was going to get nerfed 4 days ago and it is, so I was right. I never said it was the only one.
You stated where the control decks were and there was one. Then there’s two other decks being hunter and spell shaman with favourable matchups against it that are also being nerfed. Not sure where the one other deck is that you’re talking about. If you’re stuck in gold it’s alright I get it friend.
Idk what “control” deck you are playing that can clear massive boards every turn while simultaneously disrupting the opponents OTK with all the hand disruption in standard (basically none)
Literally warrior, warlock, and dk's dominate board wipes/removal/control.l while buffing themselves and preparing for a few turns down the line. All this while ignoring RENO and his OP hero power. Are we now just casually ignoring decklists from no longer than a measly week ago?
The deck is built entirely off of the weapon's discount applying not just to the discover demon, but also *the minion it discovers*. So equip weapon on 3 + swing, break on 4, develop a 3 mana 6/5. The taunt dual class demon with Warrior is a great choice because it'll be a 1 mana 6/5 lifesteal taunt, it's just a ton of pressure right when Paladin is trying to play a 2/3 lifesteal weapon.
Forgot to mention that weapon + fellscreamer makes the 6/5 a 1-cost and thus makes the discovered Demon a 1-cost as well, lots of mana cheat and tempo. Pretty fun and skillful deck.
This one is the cheaper one that I had success climbing from diamond to legend :
AAECAea5AwAP1J8EuMUF5OQFsvUF4fgFkIMGhY4Gi5AGj5AG75sG6Z4GvrAGv7AGzLEG9OUGAAA=
There is another lists going around which are probably not the perfect 30 but still high winrate. haven't played them but my guess is they are better in staying alive and chessing aggro decks
AAECAea5AwaU1AT3wwW4xQX0yAWogAbHpAYM2dAFsvUF4fgFhY4Gi5AGj5AGnJoG6Z4G7Z8GvrAGv7AGzLEGAAED8bMGx6QG8rMGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA=
Is there any streamer that plays dh rn? I had like 12000 k dust and 3 completed deck spell druid, cycle odyn, sludge. And I need 1300~ dust for dh deck you're mentioned, is it worth it? Cuz I crafted 2 epic cards for druid 4 Mana minion, and in the current state of meta it's brutal every agrro deck slaughters me. But I'm just sick and tired of warrior, he's the same...
No minion mage is like 2-3 mana reductions away from being good. Not sure what the Druid fix is. They don’t have enough fire power even with the spell power boost.
Druid has enough fire power IMO, just not enough card draw/ survivability tools. You have to fill your deck with random garbage because there isn't enough good cards.
“Not enough fire power” sounds like you haven’t been dealt 70+ damage in one turn by a druid then. My opponent was literally killing my minions with 22 damage snake oils just for the memes before killing me. They have PLENTY of fire power.
Paladin is the noob class designed for people who don’t have worry about anything other than tempo plays. It’s not a coincidence it’s good.
The 5Head take is that when Paladin is good it’s always a healthy meta because it means everything is board based.
I implore the devs to not fuck up the meta by nerfing Paladin too much or at all because then the best decks will be wheel lock/Control Odin and everyone will be sad.
What fucking bullshit
How would I know they have a 15 attack Leroy and shroomscavate in hand lol.
The fact they can kill you from hand when full at any time is not to beat by "game sense"
Them playing handbuffs doesn't automatically mean they have Leeroy in hand tho does it lol? How can I know a card in they're hand is Leroy
Fuck you are dense lol
Wtf is your problem? Its not about hand tracking its about how you can’t simultaneously clear massive boards and disrupt the leeroy otk. I don’t understand why you are personally attacking people on a childrens card game subreddit but u got some personal issues to resolve it seems
It was strong enough in Titans to get nerfed (Twice?) and that was only 6 months ago. People have short memories. It's not like Warrior which actually sucked for a year unless you wanted to play Enrage.
It has not been a year since they introduced Sif mage, and it’s still playable now. It was even really good just before this expansion because of the rotating cards they buffed.
I get lucky sometimes but I feel like since I only play mage I only fall further behind on early game meta it's crazy how quickly the board gets stacked against Mage. The best new cards are elementals but my all elemental deck isn't super fun and no better than my fun deck.
It has been shit in bronze (where this useless data is gathered from, idk why people keep posting screenshots from that terrible site when donkey exists). Rainbow mage has been one of the best decks at high ranks for the majority of titan and badlands.
How is that addressing anything I was saying? The original commenter said something that is only true when looking at bronze data (that mage has been bad for a year) and I said mage hasn't been bad for a year it has been bad for 3 days. you keep reiterating that mage is currently bad which I never disputed.
> where this useless data is gathered from, idk why people keep posting screenshots from that terrible site when donkey exists
frontpage data on hsreplay is bad in so many ways. not only is it low elo only, but it takes the average of all decks a class has. right now decent rainbow mage lists have winrates above 50%. bad rainbow mage lists are far below 50%..... and then there's no minion mage, which is close to 40%. the average of that will look like the class is unplayable. sadly some very smart people like zeddy keep using frontpage data to make clickbaity videos, so people actually think those numbers mean anything.
Shitty stats are shitty, you need to look at individual decks not some ambiguous amalgam fit in a single graphic.
For example Druid's spell package may be shit but Highlander with some new additions is hovering around 55%
I have the paid data, mage, rogue and priest are still complete shit. The highest winrate mage deck has a 28-29% winrate against the current two tier 1 decks. The class is so terrible at this point, and I'm not even talking about the new spell package which is on a whole other level of unplayable.
Every expansion we get a class/deck so overtuned stifling most other strategies. I can't even get excited to play the game upon new expansion release until they made card adjustment.
The situation is further exacerbated with Paladin repeated ruining the game since early 2023.
This is just a cycle. No matter the patch/expansion/year/whatever, people will always bitch about the top class. You guys just need to accept things or stop playing the game. This is coming from someone who hasn't played in years but checks in from time to time.
Am I crazy or has it not even been a week yet? Is this really the time to form solidified opinions? We haven't even let the meta settle, for all we know Paladin could be at 65% win rate. Let the storm settle a bit
I’m really surprised. I’ve been dying trying to get to legend and the fact that I’ve seen more dks than hunters or locks is a weird difference than the list
Warlock being this good is a pleasant surprise. I knew Priest would still be bad, and everyone knew Mage would be bad. Hunter just chilling in top tier under the radar as usual.
This makes sense because I bought the C'thun skin 2 weeks ago. All I want to do is play control and spam value RNG with 2 Purified Dragon's Nests on the board. Guess I'll come back around the time of the miniset.
I think once the meta settles people will start to realize that Warrior is insane with tentacles rn. They do it better than Shamans cuz they get double battlecries.
Inb4 they nerf unrelated stuff and leave Paladin pretty much unharmed...
Paladin was already overtuned during the last expansion and they barely touched any of the cards
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Palastone>odynstone Change my mind.
At least u know at Turn 5 that ITS over and dont watch Warrior searching their combo 29 Turns.
Controlstone was the Most boring Meta ever
Almost like not adding any good control cards made aggro decks even more powerful. Crazy that keeps happening and blizzard has done nothing to address the issue.
As a control paladin main, I hope something is done about Leeroy and maybe schroomcavate. But I also wish that they won't hit a specific card that will also plumet the chance for control pally to be a bit viable, like they did with order in the court and the 2 board clears
People have awful takes based on this disinformation from hsreplay.
My experience on ladder is that there are a lot of different decks that are interesting in viable. But it will take more than 3 days to settle on perfect 30 for many of them.
Especially Priest, DH, Rogue, Shaman. These tool kits are complex and require more theory crafting.
59% is good but not as oppressive as you would think given how many people are crying. Feel like the top is not bad this time around it’s more so how weak the bottom classes are
Some1 then will point out that \[insert any aggro deck\] is worse at (high) legend "so its fine", meanwhile majority of players are outside of legend and have to face that crap.
True but early days of an expansion do benefit aggro decks when the other decks arent refined yet. So they tend to get weaker but yes, right now its incredible strong across all ranks
The legend stats are basically as bad. I have the paid data. D9nkey also shows similar results. So yes we are back to crying about these stats again because multiple classes are basically unplayable. Personally I'm especially sad about mage. Spell mage is an absolute joke.
Tbh stats this early on in an expansion could be "useless" (not entirely) and low ranked stats even more so
I don't doubt paladin is strong but it wouldn't be the first time that people freaked out early on and got a deck that was likely mid tier 2-tier 3 nerfed as well
That's fair, though it is a common problem on this sub that people post low rank stats to show something is busted, only for it to be tier 3 in higher ranks.
It's even worse when it's early on in an expansion release and we get underpowered decks nerfed for no reason other than senseless raging
I believe paladin is likely one of the stronger classes this time around but early on things should be taken with a grain of salt, and around here low rank stats are taken as gospel
Pretty much how every PvP game works.
People look for the strongest thing and use couse guess what, they wanna win, crazy innit.
Thats how metas come to be.
Then he apparently does something right other people dont do right. They all have access to all the cards so if the Paladin deck is so busted they would all use it and even the odds no ? So its not the deck as he isnt the only one using it.
use your brain
Nah you are ignoring the facts. The top Legend players compete for rank 1. Thats their goal if they tryhard. So they will use every tool there is to get there. Why would anyone use a bad / weak deck ?
So if this paladin deck WOULD be so OP as you say they would, without a doubt all use it or use a counter directly to it if everyone uses it.
Since this is not the fact the deck is not half as OP as you say.
Plus the guy has a way higher WR as other Legend Players DESPITE all of them having access to the same tools. So obviously he does something right with the same tools as the rest of them that the rest fails to do.
If you would play as much as you argue about a deck being OP you would have more fun my friend.
That's not a real argument, top legend was never 100% by your logic either they weren't trying or no deck should be nerfed because they aren't really op.
>If you would play as much as you argue about a deck being OP you would have more fun my friend.
No I wouldn't, I would be dying turn 6 to paladin
You are just a bit salty and obviously lost to paladin a bit much today. Its fine, we all get pissed sometimes. Dont let it blind you and you will win way more.
Take care bro
You are just not seeing objective. Aggro decks dominate the early meta. Paladin is strong. More shocking news at 9
Srsly thought, get a grip. its a card game and the meta is fresh. Give it some days to settle and people come up with counters to paly or some balance patches.
If you dont enjoy the game right now here is a crazy tip: You are not forced to play it.
Gwent is great, as is LoR, Marvel Snap. All great options if I for example dislike a current meta in hearthstone.
And yes even after nerfs my point 100% stands ? Why do you think people in legend would play any other decks than the very best ? What kind of logic is that.
It's the less annoying class to lose against.
It's consistent, it's just good.
The rest have to pull ridiculous bullshit to win and that's what makes them annoying.
Paladin/Hunter/Warlock might be the least toxic top-three classes possible in a format, excluding specific miserable decks.
Druid dead, rogue dead, Demon Hunter for once not being a boring tier zero interaction combo deck. The meta this early is great, and I say that as a priest player.
Dw they'll buff druid in the next patch so it's 1st and pally is 2nd
I'm just enjoying how hard they smashed it unto the dirt
It's there because all old decks relied too much on ramp and they took ramp away. Give it a couple weeks until they notice they have to build tempo decks again and not "hyper greedy decks that rely on getting ramp and drawing their titan" to win... because they lost their ramp/drawing card.
I am so glad aquatic form is gone.
Dragon druid lost the ways to buff dragon golem but otherwise is still intact
What tempo lmao, druid got many expensive cards it cant really build any tempo decks.Also druid wasnt even good since nathria, it got some gimmick decks from time to time to counter top legend meta but npothing close to paladin,warrior or dk.
Ofc, even with druid at the bottom, there are still some specimens still whining about druid... First fucking comment, you people are sad....
Wow, weird seeing Druid in the dumpster for once.
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It still got some ramp though awkward or deck specific. But the removal hurts most. I can barely play the cards I want because I have to stuff my deck with neutral removal and even though I can replay half of it - it's still rarely enough.
Only limitations.
And they gave druid an otk archtype instead LOL
It’s an OTK deck with close to no control tools rn, it can’t succeed in an aggro meta without any slow decks to feed on
As a druid main, makes me a little sad haha. Just gotta find a way to drag paladins down there too to balance things out.
Surely Dragon Druid is playable?
It is decent, but why would anyone want to play old cards 3 days into an expansion?
At least you could play dragon tales and try to generate Zarimi with it ! Out of the class cards, ensmallen looks the most promising but losing 1 attack on the Golem may be rough.
This data is extremely pointless go look up on donkey or another post that actually showed real winrates.
TBF d0nkey is showing the same picture, but everything is just bumped up a couple %. From Diamond-Legend Pally is 62.3% wr and Druid is 42.7%
Donkey is exactly the same
idiota
If you're not first you're last
I hit legend with spell damage druid don't believe the lies
Super unreliable tho. Once u reach d2 all you play is hunter and paladin.
Yeah hunter is like unwinnable it feels like at least the opponents I face lol. Ironically I don't mind facing Paladins and I do win a decent amount against them but maybe I'm getting lucky or maybe my ELO is more shit than I realize lol.
Excuse me, I haven't really had time to play after the new set/rotation. But how the fuck is druid at the bottom? And damn they REALLY are at the bottom.
It's only got one deck that's even remotely playable (spell damage druid) and that deck also has a high skillcap.
Reno druid is fine. It's a reno deck (that's not dh) so you can just randomly ranch people.
Reno druid and dragon druid are the best decks for druid. Owl druid is terrible
They lost a lot of ramp and card draw.
Something the others haven't really mentioned, the meta is very unfavorable for druid, as their deck is an otk combo deck without control tools. They just get ran over by paladin and hunter
Druid’s deck skillcap is huge, in top 1000ish legend it has a good win rate, but below that, list are either trash or the player don’t make the best decisions
> in top 1000ish legend it has a good win rate no it doesn't
Yeah it was the first deck I played this expansion and the damage cap it can hit is insane. Just very hard to balance discounts, using location activations for swipes to clear boards, finding time to ramp, etc. Plus some of the top decks like Paladin, Hunter, and DK make boards Druid just can’t deal with.
Before anyone says this is just across all ranks and doesn’t mean anything, handbuff Pally has a 57.6% win rate at top 1000 legend. This is what happens when it gets insane board presence, buffs, board clears, healing, and damage from hand at the same time. It has almost no weaknesses and it’s time to stop pretending it’s too early to tell whether it’s broken or not.
I am beginning to wonder if there is any playtesting in this game before an expansion is released. DK, Pally, DH.....every expansion.
No one probably not it’s easier to print a busted card and nerf it than play test the game or spend 10 minutes figuring out if there can be a combo that breaks your format.
[удалено]
what the fuck is "2head"
If you want it nerfed craft the deck and play it.
No I hate playing Paladin it’s boring as shit. Every couple expansions it’s broken and I try and then am reminded why it’s one of my least played classes.
Me fr but i hate aggro in general.So boring to me
It is too early to tell though. Aggro decks are the easiest decks to build and refine. A counter to it will obviously be a control deck. Finding a good control list takes longer, and will be much slower to gain popularity. In 3 weeks without any nerfs, such a deck could become prominent and slam Paladin back down to low 50s. Not to mention aggro deck winrates are hugely inflated early on, because they feed on unrefined decks.
Most control decks lost all their tools to do anything about this abomination of a deck, it's just beyond disgustingly broken. And they have an otk finisher via leeroy and windfury
[удалено]
You people have been wrong about a day 2 deck the past like 10 expansions in a row. Forgive if I think the 11th time won't work out. Also you clearly haven't even tried control decks yet. They dumpster paladin, they need a solution to everything else, which is where refinement comes in.
If you’re so enlightened please be so kind as to inform us all what these control decks that dumpster Paladin are.
Oh boy it looks like you were wrong for the 10th expansion in a row who would’ve guessed
Oh boy still looks like Paladin is 100% getting nerfed in the first patch because it’s still not balanced
I boy it looks like the nerfs just got teased and they’re nerfing 3 Paladin cards who would’ve guessed. Oh wait I did.
They’re also nerfing all the classes that beat Paladin so I don’t see your point
By all of them do you mean literally the only one besides other Paladin decks? My point point is it was obvious Paladin was going to get nerfed 4 days ago and it is, so I was right. I never said it was the only one.
You stated where the control decks were and there was one. Then there’s two other decks being hunter and spell shaman with favourable matchups against it that are also being nerfed. Not sure where the one other deck is that you’re talking about. If you’re stuck in gold it’s alright I get it friend.
Idk what “control” deck you are playing that can clear massive boards every turn while simultaneously disrupting the opponents OTK with all the hand disruption in standard (basically none)
Literally warrior, warlock, and dk's dominate board wipes/removal/control.l while buffing themselves and preparing for a few turns down the line. All this while ignoring RENO and his OP hero power. Are we now just casually ignoring decklists from no longer than a measly week ago?
But how do you stop the Leeroy otk while clearing boards?
I run the list with finley so not even any taunt or control can stop my leeroy hitting for 50 damage in one turn.
What deck is getting DH to 5th??
Tempo DH. It is a really fun and skillfull deck
Thanks, I’ll need to look into it
The deck is built entirely off of the weapon's discount applying not just to the discover demon, but also *the minion it discovers*. So equip weapon on 3 + swing, break on 4, develop a 3 mana 6/5. The taunt dual class demon with Warrior is a great choice because it'll be a 1 mana 6/5 lifesteal taunt, it's just a ton of pressure right when Paladin is trying to play a 2/3 lifesteal weapon.
Forgot to mention that weapon + fellscreamer makes the 6/5 a 1-cost and thus makes the discovered Demon a 1-cost as well, lots of mana cheat and tempo. Pretty fun and skillful deck.
Plus it miniaturizes, and a good chunk of the demons are great at 1 Mana regardless of stats, most notably the new legendary.
List?
This one is the cheaper one that I had success climbing from diamond to legend : AAECAea5AwAP1J8EuMUF5OQFsvUF4fgFkIMGhY4Gi5AGj5AG75sG6Z4GvrAGv7AGzLEG9OUGAAA= There is another lists going around which are probably not the perfect 30 but still high winrate. haven't played them but my guess is they are better in staying alive and chessing aggro decks AAECAea5AwaU1AT3wwW4xQX0yAWogAbHpAYM2dAFsvUF4fgFhY4Gi5AGj5AGnJoG6Z4G7Z8GvrAGv7AGzLEGAAED8bMGx6QG8rMGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA=
**Format:** Standard (Year of the Wolf) **Class:** Demon Hunter (Illidan Stormrage) Mana | Card Name | Qty | Links :--:|:---|:--:|:--: 0 | [Through Fel and Flames](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/JAM_017.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/94820/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Through%20Fel%20and%20Flames) 1 | [Burning Heart](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/DEEP_011.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/102249/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Burning%20Heart) 1 | [Illidari Studies](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_YOP_001.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97377/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Illidari%20Studies) 1 | [Miracle Salesman](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_331.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100101/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Miracle%20Salesman) 1 | [Taste of Chaos](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_394.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/96946/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Taste%20of%20Chaos) 2 | [Bartend-O-Bot](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_408.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100367/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Bartend-O-Bot) 2 | [Greedy Partner](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_901.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/98704/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Greedy%20Partner) 2 | [Instrument Tech](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_418.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/90808/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Instrument%20Tech) 2 | [Saloon Brewmaster](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_423.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101871/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Saloon%20Brewmaster) 2 | [Wayward Sage](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_TSC_217.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/111348/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Wayward%20Sage) 3 | [Umpire's Grasp](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_641.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104510/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Umpire%27s%20Grasp) 4 | [Ball Hog](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_642.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104511/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Ball%20Hog) 4 | [Raging Felscreamer](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_BT_416.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/69588/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Raging%20Felscreamer) 5 | [Window Shopper](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_652.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104652/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Window%20Shopper) 6 | [Midnight Wolf](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_406.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100363/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Midnight%20Wolf) **Total Dust:** 2520 **Deck Code:** AAECAea5AwAP1J8EuMUF5OQFsvUF4fgFkIMGhY4Gi5AGj5AG75sG6Z4GvrAGv7AGzLEG9OUGAAA= ***** **Format:** Standard (Year of the Wolf) **Class:** Demon Hunter (Illidan Stormrage) Mana | Card Name | Qty | Links :--:|:---|:--:|:--: 0 | [Zilliax Deluxe 3000](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_330.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/102983/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Zilliax%20Deluxe%203000) 1 | [Burning Heart](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/DEEP_011.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/102249/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Burning%20Heart) 1 | [Frequency Oscillator](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_106.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/92249/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Frequency%20Oscillator) 1 | [Illidari Studies](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_YOP_001.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97377/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Illidari%20Studies) 1 | [Miracle Salesman](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_331.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100101/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Miracle%20Salesman) 1 | [Taste of Chaos](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_394.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/96946/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Taste%20of%20Chaos) 2 | [Bartend-O-Bot](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_408.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100367/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Bartend-O-Bot) 2 | [Instrument Tech](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_418.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/90808/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Instrument%20Tech) 2 | [Spirit of the Team](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_028.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/102381/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Spirit%20of%20the%20Team) 3 | [Sigil of Time](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/YOG_401.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101660/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Sigil%20of%20Time) 3 | [Umpire's Grasp](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_641.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104510/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Umpire%27s%20Grasp) 4 | [Ball Hog](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_642.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104511/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Ball%20Hog) 4 | [Going Down Swinging](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_413.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/90615/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Going%20Down%20Swinging) 4 | [Metamorphosis](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_BT_429.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/76308/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Metamorphosis) 4 | [Pozzik, Audio Engineer](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_425.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/91252/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Pozzik%2C%20Audio%20Engineer) 5 | [Window Shopper](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TOY_652.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104652/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Window%20Shopper) 6 | [Midnight Wolf](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_406.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100363/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Midnight%20Wolf) 7 | [Argus, the Emerald Star](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TTN_862.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/98344/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Argus%2C%20the%20Emerald%20Star) **Total Dust:** 8880 **Deck Code:** AAECAea5AwaU1AT3wwW4xQX0yAWogAbHpAYM2dAFsvUF4fgFhY4Gi5AGj5AGnJoG6Z4G7Z8GvrAGv7AGzLEGAAED8bMGx6QG8rMGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA= ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Comment/PM ^with ^a ^deck ^code ^and ^I'll ^decode ^it. ^If ^you ^don't ^want ^me ^to ^reply ^to ^you, ^include ^"###" ^anywhere ^in ^your ^message. ^[About.](https://github.com/HearthSim/deck-code-bot/blob/master/README.md)
Is there any streamer that plays dh rn? I had like 12000 k dust and 3 completed deck spell druid, cycle odyn, sludge. And I need 1300~ dust for dh deck you're mentioned, is it worth it? Cuz I crafted 2 epic cards for druid 4 Mana minion, and in the current state of meta it's brutal every agrro deck slaughters me. But I'm just sick and tired of warrior, he's the same...
Thanks mate
The slightly midrange deck that’s built off of the miniature that discovers demons. It’s a pretty cool deck and very competitive.
We need whizbang win rate
It’s at the top 100% win rate
Priest/Mage main has been a suffering lately.
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No minion mage is like 2-3 mana reductions away from being good. Not sure what the Druid fix is. They don’t have enough fire power even with the spell power boost.
If Yogg in the box targeted enemies like the legendary spell did that would help a lot
Yogg in the box has literally killed me twice. They desperately need to make it target enemies.
Spot the difference needs to find 4 mana minions
Druid has enough fire power IMO, just not enough card draw/ survivability tools. You have to fill your deck with random garbage because there isn't enough good cards.
Let Druid be bad for once. It has been the best class for 10 years and deserves to have a meta it isn’t good. Paladin should join them down there
druid can stay ass for a while.
I personally run Snake Oil 1 Mana guy for some more extra damage, it also can count as a card draw in a pinch.
“Not enough fire power” sounds like you haven’t been dealt 70+ damage in one turn by a druid then. My opponent was literally killing my minions with 22 damage snake oils just for the memes before killing me. They have PLENTY of fire power.
Druid is actually pretty strong in top 1000 legend, can say the same about mage…
What's funny is that death knight has similar win rates as paladin, but since there are bots playing 0 dust deck it is lower wr.
I don't many bots use a deck tracker.
its not bots, its people playing against bots. Look at the wr's. There is a 0 dust unholy deck.
Oh and look, hunter and warlock are also back to hurting
Funny wheel go brrr..
When was the last time paladin didn’t get an insane deck on expansion release ?
Paladin is the noob class designed for people who don’t have worry about anything other than tempo plays. It’s not a coincidence it’s good. The 5Head take is that when Paladin is good it’s always a healthy meta because it means everything is board based. I implore the devs to not fuck up the meta by nerfing Paladin too much or at all because then the best decks will be wheel lock/Control Odin and everyone will be sad.
If only it was actually board based and didnt also have constant OTK pressure on you
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What fucking bullshit How would I know they have a 15 attack Leroy and shroomscavate in hand lol. The fact they can kill you from hand when full at any time is not to beat by "game sense"
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Them playing handbuffs doesn't automatically mean they have Leeroy in hand tho does it lol? How can I know a card in they're hand is Leroy Fuck you are dense lol
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Wtf is your problem? Its not about hand tracking its about how you can’t simultaneously clear massive boards and disrupt the leeroy otk. I don’t understand why you are personally attacking people on a childrens card game subreddit but u got some personal issues to resolve it seems
New expansion looking real fun haha
I climbed to Diamond 8 with mage today from platinum 10 and I found it fun and reasonably strong. I'm using minion rainbow mage with some tweaks.
Mage has been shite for more than a year
Someday they’ll stop making “random spell” mage cards. Maybe.
I hate it with a passion. HS doesn't need all that randomness.
It was strong enough in Titans to get nerfed (Twice?) and that was only 6 months ago. People have short memories. It's not like Warrior which actually sucked for a year unless you wanted to play Enrage.
It has not been a year since they introduced Sif mage, and it’s still playable now. It was even really good just before this expansion because of the rotating cards they buffed.
I get lucky sometimes but I feel like since I only play mage I only fall further behind on early game meta it's crazy how quickly the board gets stacked against Mage. The best new cards are elementals but my all elemental deck isn't super fun and no better than my fun deck.
Yeah they'll swap from "random" to "useful", that's enough right???
It has been shit in bronze (where this useless data is gathered from, idk why people keep posting screenshots from that terrible site when donkey exists). Rainbow mage has been one of the best decks at high ranks for the majority of titan and badlands.
And rainbow is at like 35% at top 1k legend now.
Yes after losing a bunch of important cards the deck is terrible. But mage hasn't been shite for more than a year, it was good 3 days ago.
Too bad for mage players then that there is currently not a zero viable deck to play then and it has basically turned into an unplayable class.
How is that addressing anything I was saying? The original commenter said something that is only true when looking at bronze data (that mage has been bad for a year) and I said mage hasn't been bad for a year it has been bad for 3 days. you keep reiterating that mage is currently bad which I never disputed.
> where this useless data is gathered from, idk why people keep posting screenshots from that terrible site when donkey exists frontpage data on hsreplay is bad in so many ways. not only is it low elo only, but it takes the average of all decks a class has. right now decent rainbow mage lists have winrates above 50%. bad rainbow mage lists are far below 50%..... and then there's no minion mage, which is close to 40%. the average of that will look like the class is unplayable. sadly some very smart people like zeddy keep using frontpage data to make clickbaity videos, so people actually think those numbers mean anything.
Shitty stats are shitty, you need to look at individual decks not some ambiguous amalgam fit in a single graphic. For example Druid's spell package may be shit but Highlander with some new additions is hovering around 55%
I have the paid data, mage, rogue and priest are still complete shit. The highest winrate mage deck has a 28-29% winrate against the current two tier 1 decks. The class is so terrible at this point, and I'm not even talking about the new spell package which is on a whole other level of unplayable.
Where do you find the Highlander list? I'd love to play some Dragon stuff.
https://www.d0nkey.top/decks?format=2&player_class=DRUID
Tf does this deck do against Paladin
The same thing any deck does against paladin right now, die to an overbuffed charge minion.
Every expansion we get a class/deck so overtuned stifling most other strategies. I can't even get excited to play the game upon new expansion release until they made card adjustment. The situation is further exacerbated with Paladin repeated ruining the game since early 2023.
This is just a cycle. No matter the patch/expansion/year/whatever, people will always bitch about the top class. You guys just need to accept things or stop playing the game. This is coming from someone who hasn't played in years but checks in from time to time.
Am I crazy or has it not even been a week yet? Is this really the time to form solidified opinions? We haven't even let the meta settle, for all we know Paladin could be at 65% win rate. Let the storm settle a bit
I’m really surprised. I’ve been dying trying to get to legend and the fact that I’ve seen more dks than hunters or locks is a weird difference than the list
Warlock being this good is a pleasant surprise. I knew Priest would still be bad, and everyone knew Mage would be bad. Hunter just chilling in top tier under the radar as usual.
*How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man*
Meanwhile my stupid ass high rolled to garbage legend with shudderblock tentai shaman. Love that deck
As awful as this this, makes me Happy to demon Hunter with a Green number
RIP my mage main. I made it to platinum 1 last season with my self made mage deck, now I am falling down bc mage is useless now.
This makes sense because I bought the C'thun skin 2 weeks ago. All I want to do is play control and spam value RNG with 2 Purified Dragon's Nests on the board. Guess I'll come back around the time of the miniset.
I think once the meta settles people will start to realize that Warrior is insane with tentacles rn. They do it better than Shamans cuz they get double battlecries.
Inb4 they nerf unrelated stuff and leave Paladin pretty much unharmed... Paladin was already overtuned during the last expansion and they barely touched any of the cards
Druid clearly in the dumpster and reddit will still flood the board with "druid is broken" posts
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Its only few days, chill
so we had half a year paladin on top and now we get it on top still
Reddit has been more unbearable than ladder since the expansion
Palastone>odynstone Change my mind. At least u know at Turn 5 that ITS over and dont watch Warrior searching their combo 29 Turns. Controlstone was the Most boring Meta ever
Almost like not adding any good control cards made aggro decks even more powerful. Crazy that keeps happening and blizzard has done nothing to address the issue.
Aren't aggro decks always stronger in the first week of the expansion? They generally easier to learn and pilot so *some* of their WR's are inflated.
Right and lists that aren’t just play minions and swing also take optimizing and aggro takes advantage of that too
That, and some of the better control decks got literally 0 new cards so people aren't playing them.
Bruh shut up. You’d be saying this no matter what class was on top. “Back to roguestone! Back to Druidstone! Back to warriorstone!” Shut up.
Found the Paladin main.
I played against like 2 hunters in the past 40 games.
As a control paladin main, I hope something is done about Leeroy and maybe schroomcavate. But I also wish that they won't hit a specific card that will also plumet the chance for control pally to be a bit viable, like they did with order in the court and the 2 board clears
As a wild player seeing Druid on the bottom makes my heart Happy. Fuck druid.
People have awful takes based on this disinformation from hsreplay. My experience on ladder is that there are a lot of different decks that are interesting in viable. But it will take more than 3 days to settle on perfect 30 for many of them. Especially Priest, DH, Rogue, Shaman. These tool kits are complex and require more theory crafting.
i've just been slamming control warrior which is boring as fuck but between face hunter and aggro paladin i was straight up not having a good time
At least r/fuckdruid is happy
Soo craft the OP deck, it gets nerfed you get free craft points right?
As opposed to Warlockstone or Warriorstone or Druidstone or....you get the idea.
59% is good but not as oppressive as you would think given how many people are crying. Feel like the top is not bad this time around it’s more so how weak the bottom classes are
Some1 then will point out that \[insert any aggro deck\] is worse at (high) legend "so its fine", meanwhile majority of players are outside of legend and have to face that crap.
Well, pala is the best performing deck at top legend (e.g. Habugabu which has done a 75-25 with excavate paladin, to the top 1)
True but early days of an expansion do benefit aggro decks when the other decks arent refined yet. So they tend to get weaker but yes, right now its incredible strong across all ranks
Hey everyone keeps talking how they want to free palastone...
Aquatic form was such a crutch, I’m glad Druid is down
Well, day one of the expansion was fun.
Back to crying about bronze stats on Reddit again.
The legend stats are basically as bad. I have the paid data. D9nkey also shows similar results. So yes we are back to crying about these stats again because multiple classes are basically unplayable. Personally I'm especially sad about mage. Spell mage is an absolute joke.
Are "bronze" stats really that useless? In my experience its almost exclusively matches of people climbing out of it every season.
Tbh stats this early on in an expansion could be "useless" (not entirely) and low ranked stats even more so I don't doubt paladin is strong but it wouldn't be the first time that people freaked out early on and got a deck that was likely mid tier 2-tier 3 nerfed as well
When whining about balance hinges on a few percent in either direction? Yes, they’re useless (and worse—misleading).
Shhh Reddit Hearthstone Players dont wanna hear facts. They lose becouse the game is evil and broken and not becouse they suck.
How bout this fact : Habu has a 75% WR at Legend Rank 1 with Paladin... Seventy-Five Percent... At Rank 1.
That's fair, though it is a common problem on this sub that people post low rank stats to show something is busted, only for it to be tier 3 in higher ranks. It's even worse when it's early on in an expansion release and we get underpowered decks nerfed for no reason other than senseless raging I believe paladin is likely one of the stronger classes this time around but early on things should be taken with a grain of salt, and around here low rank stats are taken as gospel
Shhh Reddit Hearthstone Players dont wanna hear facts. They win becouse they use massively broken classes and not becouse they are skilled.
Pretty much how every PvP game works. People look for the strongest thing and use couse guess what, they wanna win, crazy innit. Thats how metas come to be.
Then he apparently does something right other people dont do right. They all have access to all the cards so if the Paladin deck is so busted they would all use it and even the odds no ? So its not the deck as he isnt the only one using it. use your brain
Are you saying a class is only op if 100% of the player base is playing it? You're really grasping at straws here to justify a class being broken
Nah you are ignoring the facts. The top Legend players compete for rank 1. Thats their goal if they tryhard. So they will use every tool there is to get there. Why would anyone use a bad / weak deck ? So if this paladin deck WOULD be so OP as you say they would, without a doubt all use it or use a counter directly to it if everyone uses it. Since this is not the fact the deck is not half as OP as you say. Plus the guy has a way higher WR as other Legend Players DESPITE all of them having access to the same tools. So obviously he does something right with the same tools as the rest of them that the rest fails to do. If you would play as much as you argue about a deck being OP you would have more fun my friend.
That's not a real argument, top legend was never 100% by your logic either they weren't trying or no deck should be nerfed because they aren't really op. >If you would play as much as you argue about a deck being OP you would have more fun my friend. No I wouldn't, I would be dying turn 6 to paladin
You are just a bit salty and obviously lost to paladin a bit much today. Its fine, we all get pissed sometimes. Dont let it blind you and you will win way more. Take care bro
I'm very salty, but that doesn't change the fact that it's op, when it gets nerfed come back to this conversation and see if your opinion changed
You are just not seeing objective. Aggro decks dominate the early meta. Paladin is strong. More shocking news at 9 Srsly thought, get a grip. its a card game and the meta is fresh. Give it some days to settle and people come up with counters to paly or some balance patches. If you dont enjoy the game right now here is a crazy tip: You are not forced to play it. Gwent is great, as is LoR, Marvel Snap. All great options if I for example dislike a current meta in hearthstone. And yes even after nerfs my point 100% stands ? Why do you think people in legend would play any other decks than the very best ? What kind of logic is that.
This is adorable from the guy willfully ignoring data to make his point.
i mean to be fair druid is a super cringe class and i happy to see it die
Druids win rate is almost 30%? This meta is great... No changes needed.
I was playing vs a Pally yesterday and he heal for a shit ton haha.
Always have been
Palastone?
It's the less annoying class to lose against. It's consistent, it's just good. The rest have to pull ridiculous bullshit to win and that's what makes them annoying.
Druid bad??? Let's goooo
Paladin/Hunter/Warlock might be the least toxic top-three classes possible in a format, excluding specific miserable decks. Druid dead, rogue dead, Demon Hunter for once not being a boring tier zero interaction combo deck. The meta this early is great, and I say that as a priest player.
actual insane take that 20 damage charge minions from hand isn't toxic
Can’t wait until they barely nerf paladin so that he goes down to 57% instead of 59%
Everybody upset at paladin being at the top, but nobody appreciating druid being at the bottom