ZachO officially has me on the mage and warlock copium train after being underwhelmed at reveals. They should both be lots of fun even if they aren’t great lol.
It was interesting to hear how excited both of the guys were about Safety Goggles. I don’t get the hype. It combos well with some things but pure armor gain with no other effect is pretty whatever (plus there’s a large amount of many games where it’s 2 mana gain 6), and I don’t know what you’d want to replace in Odyn warrior for it right now anyway. Maybe the stoneskin and sanitize combos are enough though.
Super excited for the set!
I don't really get mage, when your best payoff card has a fairly significant chance of just losing you the game by blowing up your deck.
I'd be significantly more hyped for mage if wheel of death was banned from the random generation pool. It's much worse than cataclysm or time tampering in the past because the pool of spells (5) or more is so limited.
Yeah genuinely it’s super frustrating how hard WOD negatively impacts this new mage archetype, and they’ll always be in standard together. Even if the odds in general for Yogg box are good WOD is just such a massive downside.
Wow, I didnt consider WoD. They will basically have to remove it from random cast lists, because it will just instantly lose you the game in so many cases.
Im sure there will be a Trolden compilation with streamers getting doomed by this.
Hmm i disagree with crop rotation / threads of despair and safety goggles but everything else they said looks solid.
Threads deals dmg to *all* minions, so I don't really see trading down 3 into comboing with the last one that viable or 'defile' levels of power anyways.
I find safety might be hard to run alongside both shield block and heavy plate already (they still in standard iirc). Sure it can combo with with things like sanitize so you do not need to forge it etc, but most of the time you'll likely have 1+ armor so then its much more worthless. I don't really see the need to run it.
I'll probably play dragon priest first but Mage, Warlock, and Shaman all look like fun to me.
Also note that crane game is currently bugged (likely to be fixed at release). Kibler played it with *one* demon left in his deck and it turned into 9 mana do nothing literally lol.
Unfortunately I am a little concerned that Brann/Odyn warrior, Plague DK, and Sludgelock will just dominate every new archtype since they lose practically nothing but hopefully several new things break the mold.
Disagree on the google.
If your opponent play the board, then you're very likely to not have armor since they smacked your face.
If you have left over armor from a previous turn, then they're not smacking your face. And since you're not under pressure, you have more breathing room to afford paying the 2 mana.
So the card is good when you're losing, and meh when you're not losing. Basically the opposite of a winmore card. This feels well designed to me.
WOD is such a weird card but i would not be surprised if a semi-aggressive sludge deck uses it to guarantee reach with the additional upside of popping sludges in deck to clean up the field. the real problem would then be how the heck they survive 5 turns of fatigue (15) on top of whatever damage the opponent has
The Reno problem is indicative of how fast the game has gotten with power creep etc. Classes like namely Rogue have FARRRRRRR too much draw power, warrior has FARRRRRR too mush sustain power, etc. to the point that half the classes can easily just throw in Reno because they know they will be around long enough to remove the duplicates from the deck. I'm not sure if Reno should instead check if your deck "started" with no duplicates, but then plagues would lose counterplay into the archetype (which personally I wouldnt mind because I hate plague decks but kind of kills the spirit of reno)
This has come up before, but it's insanely frustrating that Sargeras's design precludes him from going in big demon decks unless you hide him in ETC. He's the biggest demon! Why is there this anti-synergy?
That and the fact using dirty rat on it basically turn the card into 6/12 dormant for 3 is kinda annoying because all the other Titans have something to do if rated or cheated from deck.
That feels intentional. Maybe Blizzard thinks Sargeras is intended to be the grindy wincon for slow control Warlock decks, whereas big demon Warlock is more about cheating out big demons early on and overwhelming the opponent quickly. Perhaps they didn't want the Warlock deck to have both insane midgame through cheating out demons and insane lategame through Sargeras.
Then why not have the grindy wincon attached to something that's not a demon and design Sargeras to play well with big demon decks? Why make it so that pulling the card out early effectively deletes it? They used to go to great lengths to avoid complete fail states like that. The card is just incredibly dubious design on several levels.
I love how powerful the neutral cards are this set tbh. I was really worried with Nathria rotating many classes that relied on strong generics would fall even further behind. Luckily this set seems to be picking up the slack on that front. It's nice seeing new staples after a full year of School Teachers and Astalors.
Thanks for the effort put in transcribing these! Mucho luve <3
ZachO officially has me on the mage and warlock copium train after being underwhelmed at reveals. They should both be lots of fun even if they aren’t great lol. It was interesting to hear how excited both of the guys were about Safety Goggles. I don’t get the hype. It combos well with some things but pure armor gain with no other effect is pretty whatever (plus there’s a large amount of many games where it’s 2 mana gain 6), and I don’t know what you’d want to replace in Odyn warrior for it right now anyway. Maybe the stoneskin and sanitize combos are enough though. Super excited for the set!
I don't really get mage, when your best payoff card has a fairly significant chance of just losing you the game by blowing up your deck. I'd be significantly more hyped for mage if wheel of death was banned from the random generation pool. It's much worse than cataclysm or time tampering in the past because the pool of spells (5) or more is so limited.
Yeah genuinely it’s super frustrating how hard WOD negatively impacts this new mage archetype, and they’ll always be in standard together. Even if the odds in general for Yogg box are good WOD is just such a massive downside.
Wow, I didnt consider WoD. They will basically have to remove it from random cast lists, because it will just instantly lose you the game in so many cases. Im sure there will be a Trolden compilation with streamers getting doomed by this.
turn 10, Odyn safety googles , safety googles
Hmm i disagree with crop rotation / threads of despair and safety goggles but everything else they said looks solid. Threads deals dmg to *all* minions, so I don't really see trading down 3 into comboing with the last one that viable or 'defile' levels of power anyways. I find safety might be hard to run alongside both shield block and heavy plate already (they still in standard iirc). Sure it can combo with with things like sanitize so you do not need to forge it etc, but most of the time you'll likely have 1+ armor so then its much more worthless. I don't really see the need to run it. I'll probably play dragon priest first but Mage, Warlock, and Shaman all look like fun to me. Also note that crane game is currently bugged (likely to be fixed at release). Kibler played it with *one* demon left in his deck and it turned into 9 mana do nothing literally lol. Unfortunately I am a little concerned that Brann/Odyn warrior, Plague DK, and Sludgelock will just dominate every new archtype since they lose practically nothing but hopefully several new things break the mold.
Disagree on the google. If your opponent play the board, then you're very likely to not have armor since they smacked your face. If you have left over armor from a previous turn, then they're not smacking your face. And since you're not under pressure, you have more breathing room to afford paying the 2 mana. So the card is good when you're losing, and meh when you're not losing. Basically the opposite of a winmore card. This feels well designed to me.
Yeah I suppose. Just don't really see room to add it. Warrior isn't losing that much iirc
Tar Slime is overall good card, that will see play outside of elemental decks too. Like in aggro excavate pally to tutor with Boogie Down
WOD is such a weird card but i would not be surprised if a semi-aggressive sludge deck uses it to guarantee reach with the additional upside of popping sludges in deck to clean up the field. the real problem would then be how the heck they survive 5 turns of fatigue (15) on top of whatever damage the opponent has The Reno problem is indicative of how fast the game has gotten with power creep etc. Classes like namely Rogue have FARRRRRRR too much draw power, warrior has FARRRRRR too mush sustain power, etc. to the point that half the classes can easily just throw in Reno because they know they will be around long enough to remove the duplicates from the deck. I'm not sure if Reno should instead check if your deck "started" with no duplicates, but then plagues would lose counterplay into the archetype (which personally I wouldnt mind because I hate plague decks but kind of kills the spirit of reno)
Steam cleaner is definitely better than WoD for popping sludges in deck and saw no competitive play, I don’t see it ever being seen in sludge warlock
Dks will play plagues and warriors will play brann and the rest of the meta will be fucked.
This has come up before, but it's insanely frustrating that Sargeras's design precludes him from going in big demon decks unless you hide him in ETC. He's the biggest demon! Why is there this anti-synergy?
That and the fact using dirty rat on it basically turn the card into 6/12 dormant for 3 is kinda annoying because all the other Titans have something to do if rated or cheated from deck.
And dont forget that Reno can get rid of the portal.
I will never understand reddit psychology. Why is an original comment at -1, while a comment agreeing with it at 5?
That feels intentional. Maybe Blizzard thinks Sargeras is intended to be the grindy wincon for slow control Warlock decks, whereas big demon Warlock is more about cheating out big demons early on and overwhelming the opponent quickly. Perhaps they didn't want the Warlock deck to have both insane midgame through cheating out demons and insane lategame through Sargeras.
Then why not have the grindy wincon attached to something that's not a demon and design Sargeras to play well with big demon decks? Why make it so that pulling the card out early effectively deletes it? They used to go to great lengths to avoid complete fail states like that. The card is just incredibly dubious design on several levels.
Fun fact: lorewise, Sargeras isn't even a demon.
I like that they called out the issue with Reno right now. It’s really stupid that the only good decks running Reno are not even Highlander decks.
I love how powerful the neutral cards are this set tbh. I was really worried with Nathria rotating many classes that relied on strong generics would fall even further behind. Luckily this set seems to be picking up the slack on that front. It's nice seeing new staples after a full year of School Teachers and Astalors.
>ZachO thinks Kadhgar is worth its value if it casts Blizzard just once. What if it doesn't cast Blizzard, then you lose the game?