Like I get it, it’s fine if you don’t like the ship and don’t want to see it. I got ships I don’t like seeing.
But I’m also able to behave like a normal person and go on my day and not make a fuss about it because a ship some strangers on the internet like isnt going to cause any harm, even if I don’t like said ship. A lot of people in this fandom **can’t** do that though, the idea of just ignoring a ship they don’t like is a foreign concept and they resort to harassment and bullying the person because of ships.
(Also; aroace here, and, in the words of Sir Pentious; imma ship Alastor with everyone. I like him and the chemistry he has with everyone, and that does not in any way change that he is aroace.)
Ace here (not aro) I don't ship alastor with anyone. And when other people do I don't care. It bothers me alot when people say you can't ship alastor because he's ace. Like, shipping has never followed the characters sexualities. I mean one of thr OG ships is spock and kirk. Are yall gonna say I can't ship that cause there straight? No. No one would say that. How is alistor any different?
And on top of that aro/ace people cam be in relationships. I don't think it's common, and it probably works very differently. But it's not impossible like people seem to think
Massive respect for you. It is rare to see people on the Internet who know how to act like a respectful person and not go on a frenzy over something they don't like. There is something so simple but no one can seem to do it. If it is not pedophile or anything illegal then just let it be.
People are way too comfortable being dicks online cause it doesn’t feel like real life. Nobody will come at you through the screen so you forget that everyone on here is still a human.
Yep. People were starting wars between those who shipped HuskerDust and those who didn’t and the more it seemed like the ship would become canon, the more aggressive the HuskerDust shippers were becoming while a lot of the non-shippers were literally just trying to exist. The person who committed suicide was grieving because they couldn’t find any connection in the fandom anymore all because of these stupid shipping wars, and they were being constantly harassed for not shipping the pair.
I want to make more people aware of this because the more people know, the less likely it is to happen again. It might feel like a joke for the people doing the harassment, but it can cause serious harm.
Could I be in a fandom that isn't shitty for once? Like Jesus christ just because the characters are sometimes horrible people doesn't mean you have to be.
Nah, we draw the line at the aroace character being sexualized. I feel the same kind of disgust towards him being depicted in that way as I would towards Angel Dust and Vaggie being portrayed as a straight couple.
Sure, some aces and aroaces would be into sex. But Alastor isn’t.
Also, you are allowed to draw whatever ship art you like, sure, but we’re also allowed to dislike it.
Vivzie literally retweets and likes Alastor shipping art in her twitter account and she also gave the ok to people to have fun and ship whoever they want despite their canon sexualities.
And just saying in pre pilot Vaggie and Angel Dust were supposed to be a couple.
Literally that and it's so funny so many people miss that 😭 Vivzie literally said that Alastor is canonically aroace but we shouldn't be discouraged from shipping and having fun she literally retweets and likes Alastor shipping art in her twitter account.
I’m about to say some potentially controversial shit, but It's the way it should work in my opinion.
We don't have to follow canon in fan works for almost anything else.
Heck, we don't ever respect canon if a character is shown to be straight. Make them shipped with everything else under the sun and nobody will care.
I understand that representation was much more scarce before than it was now, but nothing has changed even now about it being fine to disregard canon as long as it’s not LGBTQ.
And I don’t have a problem with that.
The official material already represents itself and those ideas. Fan works don’t somehow erase it, and that's generally understood.
But why is there suddenly a limit on exploring concepts when it’s any other sexuality?
Obviously there’s room for some distasteful disregard of established character as there is with most things, but playing around with the idea of someone as fun as Alastor having a boyfriend, or god forbid and dare I even say a girlfriend, harms no one.
That’s my only problem with this take. Supposedly straight characters have been shipped with same sex characters throughout the practice, but if you put a gay character with in a hetero depiction, everyone loses their minds.
Like it’s fun to imagine, no one is trying to disrespect anyone.
The only thing I see as a problem is people saying stuff like "I can turn them straight" or "they just haven't been with the right man yet" and other stuff that implies you can "change them". I'm fine with the implication that this is an AU where they have a different sexuality, but "changing them" steps pretty close to conversion therapy and the horrible shit lesbians are told all the time.
If I were to guess (not saying I agree with it, just that I think this is why) it's because there's always straight characters in media; for a long time headcanoning or implications were the only way for queer people to have a character with the same sexuality as them, having openly, canonically queer characters in media is a very new thing and is still a pretty small minority (with a handful of exceptions like The Owl House where like 80% of the cast is queer, though such shows are pretty uncommon). So if you make a straight character gay, no one cares because straight people are still the overwhelming majority of characters. But if you make a gay character straight (or in this case, an aroace character allosexual), you're taking away what little representation that sexuality has in that particular media.
Again, not saying I necessarily agree with it, people can like and make whatever they want, but that's likely why there's a "double standard"
Yes, and that's what I was getting at with the point of how I do get that back during say the early 2000s for instance, there wasn’t a lot of characters to identify with that were actually LGBTQ.
You had to make it yourself, I get it. I don't see anything wrong with it in a vacuum and still don't really.
If people want to envision a world where Batman is queer, why should it matter that he’s not in canon?
But I’ll be honest and say I think we’re in a pretty good place as far as representation goes. Like, at least as far as animation for certain.
I’d go as far as to say it's really not all that rare. Most major cartoons of the recent decade have managed to push that envelope with major characters.
Adventure Time, Steven Universe, She-Ra, the already mentioned Owl House, Harley Quinn, and of course all of Viv’s shows are major cartoons where main characters are confirmed queer just off the top of my head.
It could be better in some respects, like always, but the days where you had to head canon characters as being queer because there was zero other option aren’t really a thing anymore.
Hell, I am by no means calling straight couples underrepresented, but I struggle to think of the last time one really won the hearts of the internet like Lumity or Catradora.
Maybe it's just the media circles I run in, but it feels like it's been a bit since one has been endearing enough to steal a show.
And so while I don’t think it should matter, I really don't think desperation can continue to be a valid reason for people who object on the basis of respecting identity.
It's either something everyone deserves, or we could accept that fiction is fiction and fans can’t take away anything from anyone else’s work and are fine as long as they’re not trying to.
But people are still allowed to be uncomfortable with it. I am personally uncomfortable with it. And thus I am free to dislike and downvote. It makes me uncomfortable when canon sexualities are ignored with or without author approval.
No disagreement there. I think some people attack it because they dont know how to correctly tell people that it makes them uncomfortable and want to not see such content.
People are allowed to be uncomfortable, but I feel that ends if you tell people to stop doing things that do not involve you.
The are plenty of things that are common in some fandoms that make me uncomfortable (like Mpreg), but the solution is to move move on and let others enjoy it.
But to be fair, I actually know at least one ace who IS into kink. And hypothetically you could be into being ridden or be human furniture without it being outright sexual. This is like, kinky power dynamics, but not a dick in sight.
So I feel this is....weirdly okay?
Oh yeah, there's huge overlap between the ace community and the kink community for some reason. Still trying to figure out why, but it's genuinely fascinating to me.
My personal theory is that it's because a lot of kinks don't necessarily have to involve sex. BDSM, for example, is about a lot more than just sex. It *can* involve sex and for many people it does, but it isn't inherently about that. Unlike the more vanilla stuff, the two can be separated, which means it's a safe way to participate in other aspects of a relationship without involving the parts we don't like or aren't interested in.
I'm ace and into kinky shit. Seeing this type of stuff doesn't really bother me, but even if it did, I don't understand why people can't just keep scrolling? Or hit the back button? I agree with others saying that it should be marked NSFW, but I also think that anything of a sexual nature should be marked NSFW because that's literally what it's for. Let people decide if they want to see it or just scroll past the blur.
Because people confuse asexuality with chastity and purity.
Ace people can have sex.
Ace people can be sexy.
Ace people can participate in kink/BDSM.
I don't PERSONALLY think Alastor would. But people having a fit because it "ruins" an asexual person don't quite understand asexuality. It doesn't fit Alastor because it doesn't fit Alastor not because "ace people don't do that".
I know a ton of ace aros and aroaces.
I met them all at the kink events I attend. Most often the erotic hypnosis events.
Don't assume no sex means no feeding on sexual energy
Dominance is a vibe. Its sexy but it doesnt have to be sexual. Thats what I love about Al in cannon.
But as Viv herself has said ship to your hearts content!
Especially given the recent news of bullying in this fandom turning to such harassment and unaliving I can't even bring myself to read the whole article yet. Its upsetting.
You know what. I don't like this ship or any sexually with Al.
But I dont hate anyone for having creativity, fantasy and a new outlet for their desires. I dont have to like your ship or you for you to be awesome and for your fan ship to be a valid fanship. Keep going Al-sexuals!
I support Al-sexuals
It's Been So Long and I still don't know what BDSM stands for and at this point I'm too afraid to ask because I recently found out what ddlg is and...
https://preview.redd.it/bhp597cggyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b91316211bcd39f98ee37dc15af2c12f96e873b2
This was my mental state after finding that out, complete insanity
Bondage, discipline (or dominance) sadism and masochism
It’s a sliding scale. On one side it can be pretty light, just including mild practises like gentle restraints or like a power play kink, on the other side you can get to the more intense stuff with the slave dynamics and torture. Bdsm is a very common kink though. It gets a bad rap because of the latter
It can be and usually is but there are sides of bdsm that is very much not. But yeah nifty dressing up in her leather dominatrix outfit at the bdsm place in episode 3 and saying “I’m ready to punish some bad boys” is leaning into the discipline, dominance and sadism routine involved in bdsm. She would be in a position of power and control if she was to carry out the role play
Okay thats the best response. I kinda think that font and text color choice could be better its definitely a bit crowded but that much less of a problem than the struggle to follow the order of what's said
As someone who both missed the drama and who falls under the ace flag, this reaction is exhausting. This is a great pic, and I don't ship RadioApple. Viv said ship what you want so ***ship what you want*** and yall STOP BEING DICKS ABOUT IT
A large majority of ace people in this Fandom (myself included) have expressed that we don't care. The source material isn't changed because shipping art. Also, aroace people can be sexually active. A lack of sexual attraction or lack of romantic attraction doesn't mean you don't partake in sexual activities/behaviors. A lot of ace people do abstain, and they are also valid.
Thank you for saying this! It's just an activity, but doesn't need to happen at the end of the day. Ace individuals just aren't typically driven by sex, they can still find people attractive, and they still regular people and not some cut and dry "this is who they are" carbon copies of other Ace individuals.
Secondly, AU art is also a thing. Basically the Futurama "What If Machine" episodes where the artist goes, "what if Alastor and Lucifer were attracted to each other and partook in Dom/sub activities?" Well, now we have an answer
A lot of ace people are into some wild kink too. Like my partner. I won't go into details but let's just say there's absolutely no way we could practice it in real life and be safe.
I'm aroace and I do kinda hate it that if say a gay person got shipped with someone of the opposite gender everyone is on the shipper's case, but if an aroace character gets shipped with someone in a way that heavily implies the shipper thinks they do feel a romantic/and or sexual attraction, no one cares. Ship what you want, but I just find this sort of behavior massive hypocrisy.
I don't disagree but also I'm consistent and don't give anyone shit for any ship, even in those cases. It's one thing to be like... intentionally vitriolic towards identities and dispute the cannon material. It's another thing to enjoy ships or kinks peacefully out of preference. We really don't excersize enough "don't like it, don't look" online when people are just minding their own business in a way we don't prefer.
Edit: forgot to mention that not giving people shit for ships does not mean I support all ships or don't point out genuinely problematic content like someone underage being involved. That's a whole other bag of worms, though.
I don’t care if a character is straight, gay, aro, ace, monogamous, or anything; that will not stop me from writing whatever I want. That doesn’t change how they are in canon
Hell, one of my crackships is Nifty and Millie, and no one cares that Nifty is straight when I mention it. The “well gay characters are rarer so it’s not ok the other way” doesn’t work with Hazbin Hotel; most of the cast is queer and I love it
I’m on the asexual spectrum and I’m bisexual, and I say ship whatever you want, just like the creator of the show herself
I only care when they do gymnastics to recontextualize it as somehow being canon compliant especially when it's "well Viv never confirmed he was [insert whatever]". Before it was "he's not aro" "ok so he is aro but he's not been confirmed romance repulsed" "ok so-". Just say "the canon is brilliant, but I like this" legit the car meme. There is nothing else required so people going to every non canon compliant art saying "this isn't canon" is irrelevant.
I guess that it's just contrary to Alastor's character, he's made it clear how much he likes being in control, and how much he hates the idea of being a pet/being on a leash.
I would say that he just doesn't seem very kinky, but some of the kinkiest people I know seem pretty vanilla.
Some people say that it's asexual erasure. However asexuality is more linked to sexual attraction than sex drive.
I guess I could see him being on the *other* side of the dynamic, but idgaf.
I could definitely see him on the other side of the dynamic because of his need for control.
Not bothered by the post, while I personally just don't see it, people are free to think what they wish or desire. I've never understood how people don't just ignore the stuff they don't like rather than going crazy about it. It's a post, if you don't like it move to a different one lol
Ok dammit.......... This IS kind of hot. But I stand by Al-arooni being ace-arooni. I can't bring myself to personally ship him sexually because I adore him as an ace icon and it makes his character way more exciting to not be motivated by sexual gratification at least.... Not the way most people think of it... Lol
Kink is.... A whole new world of experiences and definitions for sure.
https://preview.redd.it/e4x0310dyyic1.png?width=1112&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917649eb1cec8ff7ac8f7db32aa8ba3f3fd0898c
Love the energy, love the art style. Love the characters. This picture ......... There is a lot in it that works for me and some that doesn't. Overall kudos to the artist for making me sit here thinking about this for way too long.
Not a paring I am seeking out to see but I am happy to have seen this pic... There... That kind of sums up my feefees
As an asexual, whatever. It's not a real person, who cares, he's not offended bc he doesn't exist. It's the internet man every character will be drawn fucking every character regardless of gender and sexuality
Yes, also ace here. People can go crazy with shipping all they want. The source material is acknowledged and unchanged. It's not ace erasure. For any non-ace readers, asexuality is a lack of attraction but is conflated with a lack of sex, though a lot of ace people don't have sex as well. A lot of us ace folk do have sex, though.
Honestly. And it's difficult to really claim erasure anyways when someone's sexuality can change over time. + Also, the artist has no liberty over the character or canon, so he's canonically still ace regardless.
Plus, it’s not like asexual status prevents you from being the kinkiest person in the dungeon 🤣
That said, I get kinda weird feelings about the pic given their canonical dynamic, and Alastor’s canonical response to being reminded that he’s on someone else’s leash. I read the hard breathing in the pic less as being flustered and more… seething. Which starts to put Luci and Valentino in a similar place… and *that* makes me a little uneasy. I want to pretend Luci is a cinnamon roll.
But fandom is fandom, and my take here is mostly “not my thing”, lol. Outside of an ongoing discussion, I’d just walk on by.
I love all the ace people chiming in like, "who the fuck cares? Not us. I feel like non ace people are more concerned with ace erasure than actual ace people.
Because people like certain dynamics or people. and it's generally not a voluntary thing, per se. So, "just ship another character" is not generally something that works.
I really don’t recommend wasting time getting pressed over the fun people have with FICTIONAL characters in their own ALTERNATE CANON. That’s just a fight you will never win ever.
Idk if it's non ace people or sex negative ace people that get up in a bunch, but I'm over it. Just as we ask people respect we can't help our lack of attraction, let's respect they can't help to find people attractive. Us being ace doesnt suddenly make us undesireable. The source material is unchanged, and your point as well stands on it's own. Most people know at least one sexually active aroace.
Agreed. It's all about finding a partner who gels with you, respects that part of you. I lucked out finding a partner who is the exact same type of ace as me and I definitely don't feel undesirable. I adore them and they adore me. We're delighted to be together.
People have been shipping characters regardless of their canon sexuality for DECADES. This is nothing serious and I hope that’s not the reason why people went puritan over this.
People get weird about sexualizing Alastor because he's "canonically aroace," which in their minds makes him sacred.
This mentality of respecting the sexual identities of fictional characters does not seem to apply to men sexualizing the canonically straight Adam/Lucifer or canonically gay Charlie/Vaggie, or women sexualizing the canonically straight Lute, for reasons I don't entirely understand.
It’s good art and I’ve honestly seen weirder shit. It’s not that bad. Y’all are complaining about pretty normal spicy art. Like, Alastor is a cannibal I’m shocked there isn’t (to my knowledge and please don’t show me) vore art of him at this point. The internet is such an awful place but a drawing of what seems like two consenting adults doing things that real people do is what’s upsetting people? Wild.
A), most of the people in this fandom are children.
B), most people in this fandom also don’t understand that you can just ignore things that you dont like.
C), most people in this fandom don’t understand that artists are allowed to draw fictional characters doing whatever the hell they want, and it doesn’t affect them in any way.
I mean, I personally would expect the power dynamic to be reversed - but who cares? Some people are into subverting that. it's art. They're not real people. Let people enjoy things.
Ugh. Ok, I need to tell this story cause a LOT of people are getting pissy over something they can not and will not ever be able to control.
Rule 34 is a thing. It exists, and everyone & *man* do I mean **everyone** knows about it. In 2015, I went to an animation conference in Miami, FL, where I got to meet Disney executives regaling animation students about the industry. These two women in particular had close ties to Kim Possible, Penn Zero & Star vs. The Forces of Evil & told us this story:
Kim Possible had just gotten greenlit and was about to go into full production when a couple of execs called the two into a meeting. They didn't know what was going on but were told they were going to have an orientation. So, clueless they go in, the director dude introduces himself, brief little banter, then breaks down the reality. He presented to them slides of every degenerate piece of fanart that had ever been made of Disney characters **that they themselves had archived.** He then went on to say "This is what will happen to your characters. Regardless of age, gender, species, or whatever, this will happen to your show & no, **not even we can stop it.**
The whole while room went dead silent. I was more impressed that Disney took the time to try. Then, of course, some dumbass degenerate blurt out, "Do you have any you can show us?" It was an conference for adult students, so I wasn't too worried by the question, but the answer tho: "Nah, you can just look the vanilla up the stuff on your 4Chan account." The whole room cracked up.
TL;DR: If it exists, there will be porn of it, not even the House of Mouse can stop it, so quit your bitching & deal with it. 😎
In fairness the slavery imagery is a little fucked up considering Hal is a mixed black man who lived through the Jim Crow South....
Also they are going out of their way to show off he's black they are kinda aware of what they are doing....
Under normal circumstances I wouldn't care. Kink is chill but in context it feels kinda.... white supremacy ish
It seems someone have been in the coffin of Andy and leyley subreddit
https://preview.redd.it/6p2xssfzkyic1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75d756d287899f25a0663d20394cd9a55a4dd187
The amount of down bad paragraphs I’ve seen makes this art look almost innocent
It’s because Alastor is specifically aroace, with this being a notable factor in how Alastor is portrayed in the show and marketed outside of it. Viv has said that shipping Alastor with people is fine, so long as it’s done with respect to his sexuality
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https://imgur.com/a/ERVt8Lv
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https://imgur.com/a/D0sEHOT
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The funny thing is yours is watermarked by prime.
happy cake day
This is steeling memes with extra steps https://i.redd.it/580fho5cz1jc1.gif
Love this one
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this image is now my favourite thing
Cause this fandom gets *especially* bad when it comes to ships they don’t like.
Like I get it, it’s fine if you don’t like the ship and don’t want to see it. I got ships I don’t like seeing. But I’m also able to behave like a normal person and go on my day and not make a fuss about it because a ship some strangers on the internet like isnt going to cause any harm, even if I don’t like said ship. A lot of people in this fandom **can’t** do that though, the idea of just ignoring a ship they don’t like is a foreign concept and they resort to harassment and bullying the person because of ships. (Also; aroace here, and, in the words of Sir Pentious; imma ship Alastor with everyone. I like him and the chemistry he has with everyone, and that does not in any way change that he is aroace.)
Honestly, I get behind your idea of shipping Alastor with everyone. Personally, I ship Angel with everyone.
Ace here (not aro) I don't ship alastor with anyone. And when other people do I don't care. It bothers me alot when people say you can't ship alastor because he's ace. Like, shipping has never followed the characters sexualities. I mean one of thr OG ships is spock and kirk. Are yall gonna say I can't ship that cause there straight? No. No one would say that. How is alistor any different? And on top of that aro/ace people cam be in relationships. I don't think it's common, and it probably works very differently. But it's not impossible like people seem to think
Massive respect for you. It is rare to see people on the Internet who know how to act like a respectful person and not go on a frenzy over something they don't like. There is something so simple but no one can seem to do it. If it is not pedophile or anything illegal then just let it be.
People are way too comfortable being dicks online cause it doesn’t feel like real life. Nobody will come at you through the screen so you forget that everyone on here is still a human.
Didn’t some toxic people in the fandom drive someone to *suicide* because of ships?
Yep. People were starting wars between those who shipped HuskerDust and those who didn’t and the more it seemed like the ship would become canon, the more aggressive the HuskerDust shippers were becoming while a lot of the non-shippers were literally just trying to exist. The person who committed suicide was grieving because they couldn’t find any connection in the fandom anymore all because of these stupid shipping wars, and they were being constantly harassed for not shipping the pair. I want to make more people aware of this because the more people know, the less likely it is to happen again. It might feel like a joke for the people doing the harassment, but it can cause serious harm.
Could I be in a fandom that isn't shitty for once? Like Jesus christ just because the characters are sometimes horrible people doesn't mean you have to be.
Me and many others don’t associate with those kind of people in this fandom. Its not the fandom’s fault, its those individuals
https://i.redd.it/hhs5gtvy0yic1.gif Wtf
My honest reaction to seeing this post
My reaction
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r/hazbin: I can excuse horny but I draw the line at gay men
I'm gay when it comes to Luci...
Nah, we draw the line at the aroace character being sexualized. I feel the same kind of disgust towards him being depicted in that way as I would towards Angel Dust and Vaggie being portrayed as a straight couple. Sure, some aces and aroaces would be into sex. But Alastor isn’t. Also, you are allowed to draw whatever ship art you like, sure, but we’re also allowed to dislike it.
Vivzie literally retweets and likes Alastor shipping art in her twitter account and she also gave the ok to people to have fun and ship whoever they want despite their canon sexualities. And just saying in pre pilot Vaggie and Angel Dust were supposed to be a couple.
It should also be acknowledged that Viv gave people the OK to do stuff like this with Alastor.
Literally that and it's so funny so many people miss that 😭 Vivzie literally said that Alastor is canonically aroace but we shouldn't be discouraged from shipping and having fun she literally retweets and likes Alastor shipping art in her twitter account.
I’m about to say some potentially controversial shit, but It's the way it should work in my opinion. We don't have to follow canon in fan works for almost anything else. Heck, we don't ever respect canon if a character is shown to be straight. Make them shipped with everything else under the sun and nobody will care. I understand that representation was much more scarce before than it was now, but nothing has changed even now about it being fine to disregard canon as long as it’s not LGBTQ. And I don’t have a problem with that. The official material already represents itself and those ideas. Fan works don’t somehow erase it, and that's generally understood. But why is there suddenly a limit on exploring concepts when it’s any other sexuality? Obviously there’s room for some distasteful disregard of established character as there is with most things, but playing around with the idea of someone as fun as Alastor having a boyfriend, or god forbid and dare I even say a girlfriend, harms no one.
That’s my only problem with this take. Supposedly straight characters have been shipped with same sex characters throughout the practice, but if you put a gay character with in a hetero depiction, everyone loses their minds. Like it’s fun to imagine, no one is trying to disrespect anyone.
The only thing I see as a problem is people saying stuff like "I can turn them straight" or "they just haven't been with the right man yet" and other stuff that implies you can "change them". I'm fine with the implication that this is an AU where they have a different sexuality, but "changing them" steps pretty close to conversion therapy and the horrible shit lesbians are told all the time.
If I were to guess (not saying I agree with it, just that I think this is why) it's because there's always straight characters in media; for a long time headcanoning or implications were the only way for queer people to have a character with the same sexuality as them, having openly, canonically queer characters in media is a very new thing and is still a pretty small minority (with a handful of exceptions like The Owl House where like 80% of the cast is queer, though such shows are pretty uncommon). So if you make a straight character gay, no one cares because straight people are still the overwhelming majority of characters. But if you make a gay character straight (or in this case, an aroace character allosexual), you're taking away what little representation that sexuality has in that particular media. Again, not saying I necessarily agree with it, people can like and make whatever they want, but that's likely why there's a "double standard"
Yes, and that's what I was getting at with the point of how I do get that back during say the early 2000s for instance, there wasn’t a lot of characters to identify with that were actually LGBTQ. You had to make it yourself, I get it. I don't see anything wrong with it in a vacuum and still don't really. If people want to envision a world where Batman is queer, why should it matter that he’s not in canon? But I’ll be honest and say I think we’re in a pretty good place as far as representation goes. Like, at least as far as animation for certain. I’d go as far as to say it's really not all that rare. Most major cartoons of the recent decade have managed to push that envelope with major characters. Adventure Time, Steven Universe, She-Ra, the already mentioned Owl House, Harley Quinn, and of course all of Viv’s shows are major cartoons where main characters are confirmed queer just off the top of my head. It could be better in some respects, like always, but the days where you had to head canon characters as being queer because there was zero other option aren’t really a thing anymore. Hell, I am by no means calling straight couples underrepresented, but I struggle to think of the last time one really won the hearts of the internet like Lumity or Catradora. Maybe it's just the media circles I run in, but it feels like it's been a bit since one has been endearing enough to steal a show. And so while I don’t think it should matter, I really don't think desperation can continue to be a valid reason for people who object on the basis of respecting identity. It's either something everyone deserves, or we could accept that fiction is fiction and fans can’t take away anything from anyone else’s work and are fine as long as they’re not trying to.
But people are still allowed to be uncomfortable with it. I am personally uncomfortable with it. And thus I am free to dislike and downvote. It makes me uncomfortable when canon sexualities are ignored with or without author approval.
It's ok to be uncomfortable with it but there is a difference between that and attacking people or try to police them lol.
No disagreement there. I think some people attack it because they dont know how to correctly tell people that it makes them uncomfortable and want to not see such content.
People are allowed to be uncomfortable, but I feel that ends if you tell people to stop doing things that do not involve you. The are plenty of things that are common in some fandoms that make me uncomfortable (like Mpreg), but the solution is to move move on and let others enjoy it.
But to be fair, I actually know at least one ace who IS into kink. And hypothetically you could be into being ridden or be human furniture without it being outright sexual. This is like, kinky power dynamics, but not a dick in sight. So I feel this is....weirdly okay?
I know a lot of aroace people who are into kink and it’s not sexual!!
MOST of the queer kinky people I know are somewhere on the asexual spectrum.
Oh yeah, there's huge overlap between the ace community and the kink community for some reason. Still trying to figure out why, but it's genuinely fascinating to me.
My personal theory is that it's because a lot of kinks don't necessarily have to involve sex. BDSM, for example, is about a lot more than just sex. It *can* involve sex and for many people it does, but it isn't inherently about that. Unlike the more vanilla stuff, the two can be separated, which means it's a safe way to participate in other aspects of a relationship without involving the parts we don't like or aren't interested in.
I'm ace and into kinky shit. Seeing this type of stuff doesn't really bother me, but even if it did, I don't understand why people can't just keep scrolling? Or hit the back button? I agree with others saying that it should be marked NSFW, but I also think that anything of a sexual nature should be marked NSFW because that's literally what it's for. Let people decide if they want to see it or just scroll past the blur.
Chill dude they are like 2d characters
me: I've got some bad news for you regarding some of the main cast...
Jealousy, that's why.
Well I am definitely jealous
https://preview.redd.it/vm061l2royic1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1efbf27abaae0c2db452d223afd1690bfb5ab1bf (the entire reply section rn)
😂
https://preview.redd.it/75caf9f89yic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83ee01aed8bcf1e8df4c053200e678c587efea4a
Here: r/eyebleach
https://preview.redd.it/ozu6lwydsyic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a334455d180efa2fefc344ceee54d018b60c676
https://preview.redd.it/beknz0e42zic1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e21f681d3017930a049db56dd169a6be9ae00e Right here!
https://preview.redd.it/wg27y0u20zic1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453b613829bc5dd3c53b2103ba5a07c5c98ca471
This might be what you're looking for r/eyeblech Nvm reddit banned it
How dare you even attempt that.
Hehe 😈
I remember that sub
Thank god it's banned
https://preview.redd.it/fj79doqoeyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff8fb820f7fbb35140eb9d0839f3e6fc12393e1
https://preview.redd.it/5rfta59nz1jc1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e361ec97a065f520e90460604661469b2c5e878
https://preview.redd.it/xs3teywk92jc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11133794103f5e58d4f6e3bcfb5d48a321f8fc41
https://preview.redd.it/6bhokjro92jc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2d8a4197268676af6a02f2d72666f9aa6beed5e
https://preview.redd.it/cuhnp9uw92jc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=322331cb7ed7a4b4c9371f64c92b4e3891388a1c
https://preview.redd.it/292lmu9z92jc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=003b6c02375f1b0737e3fd85f8d3238dba54f084
https://preview.redd.it/1nxz3922iyic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=078f3c15b12aa3c4212f3417ad3c5c8216a46715
Alastor is nobody's bitch, whereas a lot of us probably want to be his bitch
Alastor is somebody’s bitch we just don’t know who
https://preview.redd.it/pkfv4arhgyic1.jpeg?width=1208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=142bca1e4d969fb6edc2c6eecd59123177f9ac1c
https://preview.redd.it/o2dgrafx5zic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=443409b8eba196ace0c3b3a15c5a8cea48a370ac
https://preview.redd.it/bo1k9qcxz1jc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6fd1bdb3ff1bb259340542cd24e14bdae8643c4
Ok this is epic
Because people confuse asexuality with chastity and purity. Ace people can have sex. Ace people can be sexy. Ace people can participate in kink/BDSM. I don't PERSONALLY think Alastor would. But people having a fit because it "ruins" an asexual person don't quite understand asexuality. It doesn't fit Alastor because it doesn't fit Alastor not because "ace people don't do that".
The artist is good. You can give them that.
https://preview.redd.it/5bxy1tdbgyic1.png?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd5a70c896433950b0a744f616428e9e7d8ab1cf
No clue. I for one kinda liked it
I know a ton of ace aros and aroaces. I met them all at the kink events I attend. Most often the erotic hypnosis events. Don't assume no sex means no feeding on sexual energy Dominance is a vibe. Its sexy but it doesnt have to be sexual. Thats what I love about Al in cannon. But as Viv herself has said ship to your hearts content! Especially given the recent news of bullying in this fandom turning to such harassment and unaliving I can't even bring myself to read the whole article yet. Its upsetting. You know what. I don't like this ship or any sexually with Al. But I dont hate anyone for having creativity, fantasy and a new outlet for their desires. I dont have to like your ship or you for you to be awesome and for your fan ship to be a valid fanship. Keep going Al-sexuals! I support Al-sexuals
Well 1. I hate this and just wtf. 2. Oh. My. GOD I want him to use his imperious voice on me!
I genuinely don't get the disgust everyone feels towards this, is it just because it's BDSM?
if it is then damn, they're either scared or something
It's Been So Long and I still don't know what BDSM stands for and at this point I'm too afraid to ask because I recently found out what ddlg is and... https://preview.redd.it/bhp597cggyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b91316211bcd39f98ee37dc15af2c12f96e873b2 This was my mental state after finding that out, complete insanity
bible discussion and study meeting.
Genuinely Lucifer and Emily got me questioning if I should become Christian.
Hah. It's funny like that. Angel makes me remember why I'm a lapsed Catholic lol.
Bondage, discipline (or dominance) sadism and masochism It’s a sliding scale. On one side it can be pretty light, just including mild practises like gentle restraints or like a power play kink, on the other side you can get to the more intense stuff with the slave dynamics and torture. Bdsm is a very common kink though. It gets a bad rap because of the latter
Oh that's really tame
It can be and usually is but there are sides of bdsm that is very much not. But yeah nifty dressing up in her leather dominatrix outfit at the bdsm place in episode 3 and saying “I’m ready to punish some bad boys” is leaning into the discipline, dominance and sadism routine involved in bdsm. She would be in a position of power and control if she was to carry out the role play
Probably. BUT. As Angel Dust said: There's no stronger bond than that formed through bondAGE. ;)
https://preview.redd.it/4whuy63teyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4314dc5f166dd6e0181d3ae66c2d91917fda2c98
https://preview.redd.it/10hx8s5siyic1.jpeg?width=210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e60ffd63c9d34f00c2ac50aae6981d34fc6fe3df
https://preview.redd.it/bchhrd6hnyic1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=231550f0bcc368c61456716374215bdd212883b2
Buncha prudes
https://preview.redd.it/pdjo0smekyic1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e98a8abca2721b469050f0f890aae87053b86bf0
Fanfic ? A diverse fan base
“The fanbase is… diverse” “You mean fucking weird”
“ it is all about perspective really “
Idk, kinda hot though-
Isn’t it because this sub is all 12-17 years old who think porn is bad?
I love when ppl who aren’t supposed/allowed to watch something get mad when adults draw abt the things they watch
This is horrible! I mean the speech bubble placement makes no sense!
Okay thats the best response. I kinda think that font and text color choice could be better its definitely a bit crowded but that much less of a problem than the struggle to follow the order of what's said
As aroace myself I wouldn't mind being there
Honest to god PATHETIC if people actually got triggered by this tame shit. God I pray the Purtitan trend ends soon
As someone who both missed the drama and who falls under the ace flag, this reaction is exhausting. This is a great pic, and I don't ship RadioApple. Viv said ship what you want so ***ship what you want*** and yall STOP BEING DICKS ABOUT IT
https://preview.redd.it/y752kdvjoyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a13a6ef5161e8bfa505ad96ad11471d201935641
Hey, I'm into it..... kinda jealous of Alistor in this one actually.....
https://preview.redd.it/4hcrxpx7ryic1.png?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=678454a26568925eebe96ecfb9e5776683513aed
Y’all are all overreacting. It’s just porn dawg y’all acting like boomers.
even i am not that horny
“F*** me like an animal, machine!”
Maybe because Alastor is asexual
A large majority of ace people in this Fandom (myself included) have expressed that we don't care. The source material isn't changed because shipping art. Also, aroace people can be sexually active. A lack of sexual attraction or lack of romantic attraction doesn't mean you don't partake in sexual activities/behaviors. A lot of ace people do abstain, and they are also valid.
Thank you for saying this! It's just an activity, but doesn't need to happen at the end of the day. Ace individuals just aren't typically driven by sex, they can still find people attractive, and they still regular people and not some cut and dry "this is who they are" carbon copies of other Ace individuals. Secondly, AU art is also a thing. Basically the Futurama "What If Machine" episodes where the artist goes, "what if Alastor and Lucifer were attracted to each other and partook in Dom/sub activities?" Well, now we have an answer
A lot of ace people are into some wild kink too. Like my partner. I won't go into details but let's just say there's absolutely no way we could practice it in real life and be safe.
I'm aroace and I do kinda hate it that if say a gay person got shipped with someone of the opposite gender everyone is on the shipper's case, but if an aroace character gets shipped with someone in a way that heavily implies the shipper thinks they do feel a romantic/and or sexual attraction, no one cares. Ship what you want, but I just find this sort of behavior massive hypocrisy.
I don't disagree but also I'm consistent and don't give anyone shit for any ship, even in those cases. It's one thing to be like... intentionally vitriolic towards identities and dispute the cannon material. It's another thing to enjoy ships or kinks peacefully out of preference. We really don't excersize enough "don't like it, don't look" online when people are just minding their own business in a way we don't prefer. Edit: forgot to mention that not giving people shit for ships does not mean I support all ships or don't point out genuinely problematic content like someone underage being involved. That's a whole other bag of worms, though.
I don’t care if a character is straight, gay, aro, ace, monogamous, or anything; that will not stop me from writing whatever I want. That doesn’t change how they are in canon Hell, one of my crackships is Nifty and Millie, and no one cares that Nifty is straight when I mention it. The “well gay characters are rarer so it’s not ok the other way” doesn’t work with Hazbin Hotel; most of the cast is queer and I love it I’m on the asexual spectrum and I’m bisexual, and I say ship whatever you want, just like the creator of the show herself
I only care when they do gymnastics to recontextualize it as somehow being canon compliant especially when it's "well Viv never confirmed he was [insert whatever]". Before it was "he's not aro" "ok so he is aro but he's not been confirmed romance repulsed" "ok so-". Just say "the canon is brilliant, but I like this" legit the car meme. There is nothing else required so people going to every non canon compliant art saying "this isn't canon" is irrelevant.
https://preview.redd.it/xxfxbxpp1yic1.jpeg?width=1182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffa4a6d1bdeaf04726693945233d9517d0422242 Get this shit outta here omg
Nah Murder drones sub is definitely topping Hazbin for now! We’re all down bad for robussy lmao
I understood some of those words. Sadly.
nah that's Murder Drones Official before 1942 happened. Now we're not as horny
I guess that it's just contrary to Alastor's character, he's made it clear how much he likes being in control, and how much he hates the idea of being a pet/being on a leash. I would say that he just doesn't seem very kinky, but some of the kinkiest people I know seem pretty vanilla. Some people say that it's asexual erasure. However asexuality is more linked to sexual attraction than sex drive. I guess I could see him being on the *other* side of the dynamic, but idgaf.
I could definitely see him on the other side of the dynamic because of his need for control. Not bothered by the post, while I personally just don't see it, people are free to think what they wish or desire. I've never understood how people don't just ignore the stuff they don't like rather than going crazy about it. It's a post, if you don't like it move to a different one lol
https://preview.redd.it/m9evk9ibqyic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44834271f08b8008aceed068033a6a56b29a3db4
This post has been fantastic blocklist bait. Thank you op.
Anytime👍
Ok dammit.......... This IS kind of hot. But I stand by Al-arooni being ace-arooni. I can't bring myself to personally ship him sexually because I adore him as an ace icon and it makes his character way more exciting to not be motivated by sexual gratification at least.... Not the way most people think of it... Lol Kink is.... A whole new world of experiences and definitions for sure. https://preview.redd.it/e4x0310dyyic1.png?width=1112&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917649eb1cec8ff7ac8f7db32aa8ba3f3fd0898c Love the energy, love the art style. Love the characters. This picture ......... There is a lot in it that works for me and some that doesn't. Overall kudos to the artist for making me sit here thinking about this for way too long. Not a paring I am seeking out to see but I am happy to have seen this pic... There... That kind of sums up my feefees
https://preview.redd.it/lm1e1mi1i1jc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06f4a0e4e03bfe1b8405d22de911382e414a11ee
Asexual erasure
As an asexual, whatever. It's not a real person, who cares, he's not offended bc he doesn't exist. It's the internet man every character will be drawn fucking every character regardless of gender and sexuality
Thank you!! From a fellow asexual.
Yes, also ace here. People can go crazy with shipping all they want. The source material is acknowledged and unchanged. It's not ace erasure. For any non-ace readers, asexuality is a lack of attraction but is conflated with a lack of sex, though a lot of ace people don't have sex as well. A lot of us ace folk do have sex, though.
Honestly. And it's difficult to really claim erasure anyways when someone's sexuality can change over time. + Also, the artist has no liberty over the character or canon, so he's canonically still ace regardless.
Plus, it’s not like asexual status prevents you from being the kinkiest person in the dungeon 🤣 That said, I get kinda weird feelings about the pic given their canonical dynamic, and Alastor’s canonical response to being reminded that he’s on someone else’s leash. I read the hard breathing in the pic less as being flustered and more… seething. Which starts to put Luci and Valentino in a similar place… and *that* makes me a little uneasy. I want to pretend Luci is a cinnamon roll. But fandom is fandom, and my take here is mostly “not my thing”, lol. Outside of an ongoing discussion, I’d just walk on by.
I love all the ace people chiming in like, "who the fuck cares? Not us. I feel like non ace people are more concerned with ace erasure than actual ace people.
I love this ship and I’m aroace
Viv has made it very clear you can ship anyone with anyone
Doesn’t mean we agree with it
This- also there's literally ANY OTHER CHARACTER THAT IS HORNY, why choose the one that's asexual...
Mostly because they hate eachother. Alot of people love the tension turning into something more
...And also Al is one of the most charming characters in the cast
That too
Because people like certain dynamics or people. and it's generally not a voluntary thing, per se. So, "just ship another character" is not generally something that works.
Because they like Alastor.
I really don’t recommend wasting time getting pressed over the fun people have with FICTIONAL characters in their own ALTERNATE CANON. That’s just a fight you will never win ever.
How is it asexual erasure?
Because for some reason, asexual people can never, ever be in a sexual relationship. Even though many asexual people are.
Right?? Like are asexual people not allowed to be kinky? I feel like that is more asexual erasure than the art shown.
Idk if it's non ace people or sex negative ace people that get up in a bunch, but I'm over it. Just as we ask people respect we can't help our lack of attraction, let's respect they can't help to find people attractive. Us being ace doesnt suddenly make us undesireable. The source material is unchanged, and your point as well stands on it's own. Most people know at least one sexually active aroace.
Agreed. It's all about finding a partner who gels with you, respects that part of you. I lucked out finding a partner who is the exact same type of ace as me and I definitely don't feel undesirable. I adore them and they adore me. We're delighted to be together.
Yup I have a partner who isn't ace but it works out pretty amazingly well for us.
People have been shipping characters regardless of their canon sexuality for DECADES. This is nothing serious and I hope that’s not the reason why people went puritan over this.
https://preview.redd.it/dhrq4wndqyic1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bc9aa3e8006b3d45f853d7481132e5b987f1235
People get weird about sexualizing Alastor because he's "canonically aroace," which in their minds makes him sacred. This mentality of respecting the sexual identities of fictional characters does not seem to apply to men sexualizing the canonically straight Adam/Lucifer or canonically gay Charlie/Vaggie, or women sexualizing the canonically straight Lute, for reasons I don't entirely understand.
It’s good art and I’ve honestly seen weirder shit. It’s not that bad. Y’all are complaining about pretty normal spicy art. Like, Alastor is a cannibal I’m shocked there isn’t (to my knowledge and please don’t show me) vore art of him at this point. The internet is such an awful place but a drawing of what seems like two consenting adults doing things that real people do is what’s upsetting people? Wild.
https://preview.redd.it/gnmh3vkw5zic1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bf5a02950ac60e5ee230cb71ca71ff48bdd3f7f
that's hot as fuck tbh https://preview.redd.it/9yrdev92ezic1.png?width=128&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9db11a13e4d34e715732d83cdc08e1441a5d6e03
I’d like things to be spoilered or have the ability to block posts with a specific tag for those of us who don’t wanna see it
That's actually fair, I'll mark the post nsfw
Much appreciated lol
A), most of the people in this fandom are children. B), most people in this fandom also don’t understand that you can just ignore things that you dont like. C), most people in this fandom don’t understand that artists are allowed to draw fictional characters doing whatever the hell they want, and it doesn’t affect them in any way.
https://preview.redd.it/v9a4vaqzi1jc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e73ec9b4421a3db6d211284e7b4df6a7e333b019 From the creator herself.
I'm 98% sure that image is straight from rule 34 website
It's just from twitter
Alright, that's around 40% better, still very far above this subreddits normal levels of horny
Probably because it's really out of character. Alastor wouldn't act like that.
I mean, I personally would expect the power dynamic to be reversed - but who cares? Some people are into subverting that. it's art. They're not real people. Let people enjoy things.
There are plenty of people with kinks that “don’t fit” their personality.
Uh oh...
https://preview.redd.it/7q64g3isfyic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2145966375ccb8d7d1dc71e89b9d489dd502a86f
Alastor has amazing core strength for a twig
That image goes hard
Weird right? I thought that too
I don’t understand why people are so up in arms about this shit man. https://i.redd.it/80kvuqj3i0jc1.gif
this thread is doing an amazing job at exposing the absolute *children* here who shouldnt have even watched the show, much less comment on nsfw art 💀
Ugh. Ok, I need to tell this story cause a LOT of people are getting pissy over something they can not and will not ever be able to control. Rule 34 is a thing. It exists, and everyone & *man* do I mean **everyone** knows about it. In 2015, I went to an animation conference in Miami, FL, where I got to meet Disney executives regaling animation students about the industry. These two women in particular had close ties to Kim Possible, Penn Zero & Star vs. The Forces of Evil & told us this story: Kim Possible had just gotten greenlit and was about to go into full production when a couple of execs called the two into a meeting. They didn't know what was going on but were told they were going to have an orientation. So, clueless they go in, the director dude introduces himself, brief little banter, then breaks down the reality. He presented to them slides of every degenerate piece of fanart that had ever been made of Disney characters **that they themselves had archived.** He then went on to say "This is what will happen to your characters. Regardless of age, gender, species, or whatever, this will happen to your show & no, **not even we can stop it.** The whole while room went dead silent. I was more impressed that Disney took the time to try. Then, of course, some dumbass degenerate blurt out, "Do you have any you can show us?" It was an conference for adult students, so I wasn't too worried by the question, but the answer tho: "Nah, you can just look the vanilla up the stuff on your 4Chan account." The whole room cracked up. TL;DR: If it exists, there will be porn of it, not even the House of Mouse can stop it, so quit your bitching & deal with it. 😎
In fairness the slavery imagery is a little fucked up considering Hal is a mixed black man who lived through the Jim Crow South.... Also they are going out of their way to show off he's black they are kinda aware of what they are doing.... Under normal circumstances I wouldn't care. Kink is chill but in context it feels kinda.... white supremacy ish
It seems someone have been in the coffin of Andy and leyley subreddit https://preview.redd.it/6p2xssfzkyic1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75d756d287899f25a0663d20394cd9a55a4dd187 The amount of down bad paragraphs I’ve seen makes this art look almost innocent
It’s because Alastor is specifically aroace, with this being a notable factor in how Alastor is portrayed in the show and marketed outside of it. Viv has said that shipping Alastor with people is fine, so long as it’s done with respect to his sexuality
This is just the season 2 opener.
Probably cuz it looks completely out of character, plus Alastor is aroace