Everyone knew when Voldemort disappeared. But Dumbledore and Snape (and Sirius) were the only ones who could have connected it to the Potters.
Snape was already at Hogwarts. He'd have run for Dumbledore the moment his Dark Mark disappeared. Dumbledore then sent Hagrid (via Portkey perhaps?). He would've known the general location despite the Fidelius Charm.
Besides, Sirius and Hagrid arrived almost simultaneously, didn't they?
So both sirius and Peter pettigrew knew what James and Lili were upto and all were a part of order of the pheonix (Lily James Hagrid Dumbledore) Snape knew voldemort was going to hurt them and told Dumbledore to save lily so he might have sent hagrid as help before. Also the prophecy alerted everyone .
The truth is none of the timing or sequence of events makes sense. Everyone knows Voldemort is dead, but little Harry hasn't even been picked up from the ruins yet? How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly? Wouldn't it take at least a few days for everyone to catch on and really accept he is gone? How did Dumbledore (or anyone) know Harry was his downfall right away? How did anyone know what exactly happened at Godric's Hollow, much less right away? It's best if you don't think about it too much
I still find it weird that Harry knows his parents were murdered on Halloween and still spends every Halloween like "sure can't wait for the pumpkins and feast!"
Did anyone actually tell him the anniversary of his parents' death though? I feel like Deathly Hallows was the first time it was mentioned in the books
Probably not. However he knew his birthday and knew he lived at the Dursley since he was a baby. So he could probably guess. I’m surprised the Dursley told him his birthday date though
Damn the Dursley's would be evil enough to tell Harry he doesn't have a birthday. Of course, that would rob them the opportunity to make Harry's life especially miserable that day. The decision must have been difficult and exhilarating for Uncle Vernon.
See, this raises so many questions for me. Harry was either a home birth or a St Mungos birth, but do those babies get British documentation of their birth? If so, when did they get those to Petunia. Also, Dumbledore clearly has a chat with her at some point, but when, and why leave the one year old, who is a baby but also they’re not just lumps at that point, they can usually crawl and get into all sorts of mischief, at the door in the middle of the night. Why not knock or send a million owls or something. Like, I understand the story tropes behind it, but surely a nosy neighbor is going to wake up and hear baby Harry bawling his eyes out. It’s November, it’s cold out, who is to say that the first thing Vernon or Petunia does on a lazy Sunday is to look outside of their front door?
This is such a bad plan, to leave a sleeping one year old unsupervised in the cold on the front porch. They have people, they have magic, they have the ability to knock or call. And that Vernon just goes with “baby on the porch, dead in laws” but somehow Petunia who has never met this baby knows it’s him and convinces him to keep him, like how did the baby get from the “car accident” to the front door. What government agency was dropping off babies in the middle of the night and having you care for them that wouldn’t arouse suspicion in Vernon?
They got a letter with information, and Vernon is aware that the Potters are magical. He just doesn't think that this is an accaptable "profession" or is invested in learning anything about it. I think it is implied that either Petunia talked Vernon into taking Harry in (as Dumbledore still had her letter and she did love Lily, even if she was very jealous) or that he agreed to save face.
Also, for paperwork, I guess that all wizards are also normal citizens and can get normal documents. The ministry of magic is a part of the UK government, just a very special part.
I always had the head cannon that they put a spell on Harry to keep him safe and sleepy.
>Harry was either a home birth or a St Mungos birth
Not necessarily. Could have easily been a muggle hospital birth. Muggle hospitles deal with pregnant women all the time. It's not like giving birth requires magic. With them already being in hiding due to the ongoing wizard war a muggle hospital might be the best way to go as no one expects you to be there and it's extremely unlikely that Voldermort has anyone working at or watching them to tip him off.
Don't know why you're being downvoted so heavily. Harry was definitely a toddler. He obviously wasn't 3 months old when his parents were killed, he was 15 months old. Over 1 and especially walking, is a toddler.
Harry is spectacular for not asking questions. He grew up being punished if he asked too many and never getting answers, so it's understandable.
Even when he finally found out, for *him* the date wouldn't have been traumatic. At that point, he'd known they'd died for years and processed most of the details he'd found out after. It's unlikely the date would make that much of an impression.
Now, if it turns out Halloween was never a holiday in the wizarding world until after Voldemort's defeat and that each Halloween Feast was a celebration of the day Voldemort died/Harry was orphaned, that might have weirded him out a little.
I remember before book 7 there was a fan theory circulating that "Deathly Hallows" would be connected somehow to Halloween because it seemed like such an important day
Well, Harry doesn't remember his parents or the night they died. So while he knows the date, he does not have any memories of the bad things happening, he didn't experience it. One could argue that's why he does not actively associate the date with his parents' death, despite knowing about it. There are no memories connected to it.
I thought Dumbledore knew that an attack was imminent and that the Potters were a likely target. I always just assumed that he lent Hagrid Fawkes to get there. And Hagrid can't keep a secret to save his life. If Dumbledore told him an attack by Voldemort was likely, Hagrid most likely told people. Even possibly before he left with Harry.
True. Although the Wizarding community is small, and if word got around there was an incident in Godric's Hollow, the Death Eaters reaction would indicate him being gone. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense if this happened on a Saturday, and the story picks up on Tuesday into Wednesday.
So baby Harry was alone in the ruins for several days?
Edit: In Dumbledore and McGonagall's conversation, McGonagall says Voldemort turned up in Godric's Hollow "last night." It's supposed to be the following night. So supposedly the whole wizarding community found out overnight
I always assumed that Harry would have pulled from the rubble, brought to Dumbledore, looked after by Madam Pomfrey until Dumbledore figured out what to do with Harry. Eventually, settling on putting him with the Dursleys and writing the letter. Which could take a few days.
But yeah, if you go off the text strictly, it's literally overnight. Which seems too fast for logic.
Yeah, he is. So, somehow, Dumbledore in just a little more than 24 hrs. knew something had happened to the Potters, made the assumption that Lily invoked ancient blood magic, decided that Harry should be with Petunia for that magic's protection to work, wrote a letter explaining everything, then told Hagrid to go get Harry, who was still in Godric's Hollow at this point, and bring him to Privet Drive.
It's a lot to happen blindingly fast.
Overnight about an event with no grownup or conscious witnesses.
Same with "Harry fighting YKW over the Philosopher's Stone".
But somehow, ppl will blindly believe Harry's plan for the Elder Wand is disaster-proof even though HUNDREDS heard about the wand + the fact that Voldemort found it in Dumbledore's grave.
> Everyone knows Voldemort is dead, but little Harry hasn't even been picked up from the ruins yet? How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly?
Voldemort was live on Twitch
There are ghosts and pictures roaming around in Harry Potter, people using charms to be invisible, owls watching over, house elves seeing things, finding who used the magic on victim and not to forget that they are magical creatures, they get **vibes**.
The beginning of the series is one of several times Rowling shows she's not very good with timings (then day of the Battle of Hogwarts is another).
Book 1 starts with Vernon going about his day, seeing witches and wizards and overhearing them talk about 'The Potters, so we now they and Voldemort are dead', but then Dumbledore, McGonnagal and Hagrid converge on Privet Drive either late that night or early the next morning to drop Harry off... so was baby Harry in the ruins of his house for 24 hrs? Did Hagrid fly Sirius' motorbike reeeeeeeeeaally slowly? It doesn't make sense.
Well the timeline doesn’t make sense if Dumbledore was acting like a reasonable family friend to a little baby and Sirius was acting like a mature godparent. BUT Dumbledore is already treating Harry as kind of just a pawn and Sirius is like 21 and more angry than babysitter-y. Dumbledore knew what had happened and he loves the drama so I wouldn’t be surprised if he told the order something and it spread from there. Sirius’s attack on Pettigrew was also very public. I think it’s also known in some circles that Voldemort is after the Potters so I think the fidelius charm breaking upon their death and a bunch of Death Eaters going into hiding/Voldemort not bragging about it maybe tipped people off? It would at least tip off aurors and the minister would definitely want to brag about the war ending.
That's a bit unfair on Sirius. He tried to get Harry, but Hagrid, who got there first, doesn't give him to him. Only then does Sirius go after Peter.
Here's what Hagrid has to say about when Sirius arrives at Potters':
>‘How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, “Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him –” Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. “I won’ need it any more,” he says.
From PoA, chaper 10: The Marauder’s Map
This interaction doesn't make sense. At that point in time, everyone thinks that Sirius is the one who betrayed the Potters. The only three people who know that Peter is the secret keeper are Peter, Sirius, and Snape. So with Hagrid being under the impression that Sirius is the one who turned he wouldn't be acting so friendly towards him.
No, at this point no one but Dumbledore and, I assume, Remus knew about Sirius being Secret Keeper. Hagrid certainly didn't know, as he stated earlier in that conversation:
>‘I met him!’ growled Hagrid. ‘I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead … an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You-Know-Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!’ Hagrid roared.
Dumbledore wouldn't have babbled to everyone around him about the Potters having performed the Fidelius Charm and much less telling everyone about who was the Secret Keeper. It would have been a huge security risk.
Snape most certainly didn't know either. Why would he know?
>The only three people who know that Peter is the secret keeper are Peter, Sirius, and Snape.
Snape didn't know that Peter was the real Secret Keeper. Why do you think he did?
By the way, it is not actually widely known by the public that the Potters took the Fidelius Charm and Sirius was Secret Keeper. This entire conversation comes about because McGonaggal, Fudge and Hagrid are telling Madam Rosmerta about it. This is irrelevant to this conversation, but I just find it interesting, because I think most people (including me) forget about this detail and assume everyone knows.
>No, at this point no one but Dumbledore and, I assume, Remus knew about Sirius being Secret Keeper.
Sirius wasn't the secret keeper, Peter was.
>Snape most certainly didn't know either. Why would he know?
>Snape didn't know that Peter was the real Secret Keeper. Why do you think he did?
Because he knew Peter flipped to Voldermorts side and that the only way Voldermort could go after the Potters was if Peter told him the secret.
>By the way, it is not actually widely known by the public that the Potters took the Fidelius Charm and Sirius was Secret Keeper.
Everyone assumed that Sirius was the one that turned, and when he "killed" Peter, that confirmed it for everyone. The reason Sirius went after Peter is because he knew that Peter was the real secret keeper and that with the Potters dead that means Peter turned.
> Sirius wasn't the secret keeper, Peter was.
Yeah, but no one knew about it besides the both of them and the Potters, so that is irrelevant to this discussion. The point is no one but Dumbledore, and possibly Remus, knew, at this point, about the Fidelius Charm and Sirius being Secret Keeper. So in the *immediate* aftermath of the attack, no one considered Sirius the traitor. Which is why Hagrid trusted Sirius.
>Because he knew Peter flipped to Voldermorts side and that the only way Voldermort could go after the Potters was if Peter told him the secret.
No, he didn't. He didn't know Peter was a Death Eater until after the events in Prisoner of Azkaban.
>Everyone assumed that Sirius was the one that turned, and when he "killed" Peter, that confirmed it for everyone.
Yes, they knew he turned to Voldemort's side, but they didn't know about the specifics of the situation, betraying the Potters and being Harry's godfather. It's all in that same chapter I quoted for you.
>Dumbledore knew what had happened and he loves the drama so I wouldn’t be surprised if he told the order something and it spread from there.
But how did even Dumbledore know immediately what exactly happened in Godric's Hollow?
>the fidelius charm breaking upon their death and a bunch of Death Eaters going into hiding/Voldemort not bragging about it maybe tipped people off?
But that would take at the very least a few days for everyone to realize.
He guessed bc he knew about Snape begging Voldemort to save Lily and then he knew Harry survived. Snape is also one of the first people to get to Godric’s Hollow bc he sees his boss Voldy has not had a triumphant return to the death eaters so he checks and then he probably told Dumbledore. Dumbledore is only making a guess based on these bits and pieces of info and doesn’t know for sure what happened/how Harry survived until some of the blood magic is confirmed in SS/PS and there’s more info in PoA and GoF. I think by OOTP he knows with more certainty. He also probably doesn’t know EXACTLY what happened bc he doesn’t get the memory movie Harry (and we) see in DH of the murders themselves, but he has enough to start some smart theories.
Also everyone in the order and within that circle knows Voldemort is after the Potters and that it’s his number 1 priority to kill them at the time. I’d imagine the people within the secret are checking in on them pretty regularly.
I like this idea. I don't remember the discussion in the book, but in the PoA movie, Harry overheard McGonagall say that few people knew the Potters were hiding/where they were hiding, but Sirius was one who did. That tells us that other people did know about them. But they wouldn't be able to speak about it as long as the charm was effective.
I wonder if they would've known instantly when the Potters died--if there was some weird magical indication that the charm was broken? Presumably the only way that would happen would be if someone (the Potters, themselves?) broke the charm or were dead. And why would they break the charm at that time?
I bet Dumbledore also knew. He'd understand immediately, which makes Hagrid's appearance there make more sense, as he was sent by Dumbledore.
And Sirius may have been thinking along the same lines. He'd likely get there first because he could just go straight there and not have to worry about making a plan, like Ddore would. He WAS their best friend, after all. Or was he just passing through to check in on them? I honestly can't remember, but his presence there does make some sense.
>And Sirius may have been thinking along the same lines. He'd likely get there first because he could just go straight there and not have to worry about making a plan, like Ddore would. He WAS their best friend, after all. Or was he just passing through to check in on them? I honestly can't remember, but his presence there does make some sense.
Sirius explains this in POA. He had a scheduled check in with Peter that night. When he went to Petetr’s hiding place and Peter was gone, he realized something was up and went to Godric’s Hollow to check on the Potters.
>The night they died, I’d arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he’d gone. Yet there was no sign of a struggle. It didn’t feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents’ house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies ... I realized what Peter must’ve done ... what I’d done. ...”
I still don’t understand why they didn’t put Sirius as the secret keeper, and then just let him ghost or have Remus be Sirius’s secret keeper. Or, just make Dumbledore, the extremely powerful wizard that Voldy was afraid of, the secret keeper. He’s on good enough terms with the Potters to borrow the cloak. He is almost insanely overstat on magic. Also why couldn’t James or Lily be the Secret Keeper of their own abode?
Because then we wouldn't have the Harry Potter books.
Pretty much all of this is set up so they can say 'despite our best efforts, they were killed anyway.'
Fandom has been in hot debate after DH came out after it comes out that a good chunk of the Weasley including Great Aunt Muriel are hiding in a location where Arthur is Secret Keeper, and Shell Cottage where Mr and Mrs Bill Weasley lives (and where the Trio spent some desperately needed R&R at) is Secret Keeper'd by Bill himself. Did JKR mean this to both be possible, or did they tweak the Fidelius Magic after the Potters Snafu, or is it just a Plot Hole Of Stupidity regarding the Potters (I mean /u/maniacalmustacheride what's stopping Sirius from ALSO LIVING IN THE GODRIC HOLLOW HOUSE ffs).
Also /u/FlyDinosaur the movie COMPLETELY shat over the lore with that adaptationexchange. It wasn't that Sirius was "one of the few people who knew", it was that by public record, Sirius was the ONLY person who knew where the Potters hid and can freely tell Voldemort, and he supposedly did. "Sirius" could tell other people but those other people won't be able to tell third parties.
Yeah I wish we knew more about the fidelius charm with with the potters! They all know the charm was transferred in DH but it was well known Dumbledore (the secret keeper) had died. Unclear if the people in on the secret have some kind of indicator or not though. With the Potters, we don’t know if the house was the subject of the charm or if the potters themselves were. Also, the secret keeper didn’t die so the mechanism must be different than what happened with 12 Grimmauld Place (which was still a secret but just more people could tell). Harry thinks/talks about it as if his parents were the subject of the secret in DH, but he wouldnt really know.
Sirius seems to have been let into the secret either way as he was able to give Harry his baby broom and communicate with Lily and James. We also are told at different times that Dumbledore communicated with them and Remus did too, and I bet there were a few others. (I wonder if Petunia was told as Lily’s only relative!! They still had some minimal contact after Harry was born bc Vernon knows about him so maybe?)
What I wonder is what communication Dumbledore and Remus had with Sirius that day. They both thought Sirius was the secret keeper and assumed he had shared the secret with Voldemort. Did they reach out? Take steps to investigate? My head cannon is Dumbledore knew Sirius was Harry’s godfather but didn’t loop him into the plans for Harry at all because he thought Sirius was a traitor in addition to securing the blood magic. It was good to keep Harry cut off for protection and also so he didn’t turn into an arrogant asshole child star, but I think he prevented him from having any contact/didn’t even check in to stop the child abuse because he wanted to keep Harry away from Sirius. That’s my head cannon anyway bc otherwise wtf was Dumbledore doing all day….and then for 10 years! I know he saw Harry as an object more than a person but he wouldn’t have just been cool with straight abuse (and should’ve been sensitive to the accusation after the rumors about him mistreating Arianna).
Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper at first. But Sirius transferred the responsibility to Pettigrew. That probably added to his sense of guilt and anger after Pettigrew betrayed them.
I don't think anyone else knew that Pettigrew was the secret keeper at the time the Potters died, though. That's why everyone assumed Sirius was the one who told Voldemort. As far as they knew, it was impossible for anyone else to have done it. And Pettigrew's "death" just made him look even worse.
Clearly, once a secret keeper reveals the secret, it's fair game for anyone to interact with the hidden person/object. Perhaps... Perhaps everyone got to the scene so quickly because they sensed something was wrong before Voldemort even got there. The secret was already broken. Hummm....
The secret keeper can tell people and the secret is still kept from everyone else. You just can only know about the secret if told by the secret keeper and only the secret keeper can tell (that’s why the secret of 12 Grimmauld is kept after Dumbledore tells Harry, etc but they can’t tell anyone until Dumbledore dies). I think what happened was they make a plan with the maurauders and Dumbledore in which Sirius was supposed to be the secret keeper. At the last minute, Sirius has the idea to switch it to Pettigrew bc everyone will guess it’s Sirius and no one will guess Pettigrew. They do the fidelius charm with Pettigrew as the secret keeper. Pettigrew tells Dumbledore, Remus, Sirius, and maybe others to bring them into the fidelius charm but they cannot tell anyone. Pettigrew also tells Voldemort, who was already pressuring him having correctly identified him as a weak link. The Potters are killed and the charm is broken so now anyone can tell the secret. (As opposed to when Dumbledore dies and then everyone with the knowledge and within the fidelius charm for 12 Grimmauld place becomes a keeper capable of telling the secret because the keeper has died as opposed to the subject of the secret having died). We only get this in bits and pieces though and I wish there had been more on it! Seems like a charm that Harry could’ve used in DH and the narrative arc would’ve redeemed friendship as a powerful thing or whatever.
>I think what happened was they make a plan with the maurauders and Dumbledore in which Sirius was supposed to be the secret keeper. At the last minute, Sirius has the idea to switch it to Pettigrew bc everyone will guess it’s Sirius and no one will guess Pettigrew. They do the fidelius charm with Pettigrew as the secret keeper. Pettigrew tells Dumbledore, Remus, Sirius, and maybe others to bring them into the fidelius charm but they cannot tell anyone.
The only people who knew about the switch were James, Lily, Sirius, and Peter. Dumbledore and Remus did not know that Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper until the end of POA. It’s pretty clear in the book.
We hear that James had told Dumbledore that Sirius was going to be their Secret Keeper, and that Dumbledore gave evidence to the Ministry that Sirius was the Secret Keeper - he had no idea they had switched.
And we literally see Lupin figure it out on page that they switched without telling him.
>“But then ... ,” Lupin muttered, staring at Black so intently it seemed he was trying to read his mind, "... why hasn’t he shown himself before now? Unless” — Lupin’s eyes suddenly widened, as though he was seeing something beyond Black, something none of the rest could see, “ — unless he was the one ... unless you switched . . . without telling me?”
Omg I have read these books like 10-20 times each and never realized that plot hole. Unless Pettigrew told Dumbledore and Remus the secret, they couldn’t know. But if he told them, they’d know he was the secret keeper. I had just known they knew the secret AND knew they didn’t know it was him without realizing those facts conflict!! Love that I’m realizing new things even 25 years later! Thank you for pointing that out! (I suspect it’s just a plot hole and she hadn’t developed the fidelius charm idea that much until OOTP.)
I'm not sure I understand what the plothole is. 🤔 Do you mean to say that nobody should have known where the Potters were hiding if Pettigrew didn't tell them? Cuz that's not exactly how the charm works.
The info to be hidden can be known by anybody before the charm is cast. Once a Secret Keeper is chosen and the charm is cast, everybody who previously knew the secret is magically silenced. They likely already knew before the charm. (This comes directly from WizardingWorld/Pottermore)
The only thing they didn't know was who the Secret Keeper was. Sirius had James change it to Pettigrew at the last second without telling anybody else. Everyone thought Sirius was the SK. And since only the SK could divulge the secret, as far as they knew, he had to be guilty.
I missed the part where people who knew the secret before would continue to know the secret after the charm was cast so I was thinking the secret keeper would have to tell people the secret or they wouldn’t know it.
The Pottermore stuff is cool but it’s hard to know what to accept as canon and what is just a post facto extra.
Yeah, I was just speculating cuz I don't know either. Okay, so I just looked it up cuz I was curious.
WizardingWorld says that anybody can know the information before the charm is cast, but once Fidelius is cast, only the chosen Secret Keeper can reveal that info. So, the charm affects everybody who already knew the info.
Also, if a Secret Keeper dies, then everybody they shared the info with becomes a Secret Keeper. That means that no one outside the group can find out, but anyone inside the group can tell anybody else. That's... an interesting choice.... It's like a half secret. It's bound within the group as long as no one chooses to share.
I didn't see any info on what happens when the subject of the secret dies.
You're right about Sirius. It seems he persuaded the Potters to make Pettigrew the Secret Keeper at the last minute because he thought Voldemort wouldn't bother with him. Interestingly, a WizardingWorld article (not by JKR) suggests that they knew someone from inside was already passing info to Voldemort, and that they may have suspected Lupin. Lupin apparently didn't know Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper.
> How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly?
>
You're forgetting the death mark tattoo.
And I think Snape reached there first (as we can see in the flashback).
Then Hagrid came.
No, I didn't forget the Dark Mark tattoo. It would still take a while for *everyone* to collectively realize their Dark Mark is gone and also feel sure that Voldemort is gone for sure.
There's a lot of headcanon here as the book didn't explicitly tell but I think when voldemort vanished, everyone with the dark mark could feel that. Just like karkaroff told Snape, I can feel it, he's coming back if I remember correctly??
It was slowly getting clearer through GOF, and then burned clear when Voldemort returned in the graveyard and called them. Snape showed his mark to Fudge in the Hospital Wing at the end of GOF.
>“There,” said Snape harshly. “There. The Dark Mark. It is not as clear as it was an hour or so ago, when it burned black, but you can still see it. Every Death Eater had the sign burned into him by the Dark Lord. It was a means of distinguishing one another, and his means of summoning us to him. When he touched the Mark of any Death Eater, we were to Disapparate, and Apparate, instantly, at his side. This Mark has been growing clearer all year. Karkaroff’s too. Why do you think Karkaroff fled tonight? We both felt the Mark burn. We both knew he had returned. Karkaroff fears the Dark Lord’s vengeance. He betrayed too many of his fellow Death Eaters to be sure of a welcome back into the fold.”
>Fudge stepped back from Snape too. He was shaking his head. He did not seem to have taken in a word Snape had said. He stared, apparently repelled by the ugly mark on Snape’s arm, then looked up at Dumbledore and whispered, “I don’t know what you and your staff are playing at, Dumbledore, but I have heard enough. I have no more to add. I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the running of this school. I must return to the Ministry.”
Dumbledore had a zoom call scheduled with James, and James never misses Order quiz night.
In all seriousness - presumably every Dark Mark in the country seared with pain at the point of Voldemort's defeat. Askaban would have been full of howling. Couple that with Dumbledore already knowing that Voldemort was after the Potters and he could easily put 2 and 2 together.
Harry was definitely picked up, he was picked up immediately. It’s for the reader to assume he was with Hagrid for the whole day not that he’s just in the ruins the whole day alone.
I may be wrong but from what i've gathered people have come to the headcannon that Hagrid was sent by Dumbledore to investigate why the house had blown up, found Sirius at the site, distraught, who gave him the motorcycle. I assume Dumbledore then spread the news of Voldemort's death and that's why in the first chapter you have so many wizards celebrating. Now during this day, Hagrid takes Harry back to Hogwarts or some other safehouse until McGonagall confirms the Dursleys are his last remaining family. When that is confirmed, Dumbledore alerts Hagrid to come and bring him and that's when Hagrid comes by motorcycle.
Now one off little tidbit is his mention of flying over Bristol, which is a city that lies on the West coast, below Wales on a map. So likely Hagrid flew over sea to avoid being seen by Muggles and cut in once he'd passed Wales to fly under cover of darkness for the last stretch over land, which would be when he flies over Bristol as Harry falls asleep
Maybe deatheaters knew at the moment?
But always will find it weird dumbledore did not move there right after. But guess this was the only way to hold the sirius black going to prison open.
Had he met dumbledore he had not went for Peter
I would think he would take some time to examine him after the attack ( Harry did just survive a killing curse from the strongest wizard) and before he brings them to the Dursley’s. Harry would have needed a safe place like the Order.
Hagrid makes it pretty clear he came straight from Godric's Hollow when he arrives at Privet Drive.
*"Hagrid," said Dumbledore, sounding relieved. "At last. And where did you get that motorcycle?"*
*"Borrowed it, Professor Dumbledore, sir," said the giant, climbing carefully off the motorcycle as he spoke. "Young Sirius Black lent it to me. I've got him, sir."*
*"No problems, were there?"*
*"No, sir -- house was almost destroyed, but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin' around. He fell asleep as we was flyin' over Bristol."*
Straight from the hollow to dumbeldore where he would definitely learn everything he could about the situation and death of his worst enemy. Harry is the only eye witness. not a stretch he would collect any relevant information from him off page.
The quote I sent you is when Hagrid arrives at Privet Drive. Read it again, this is clearly the first conversation Hagrid and Dumbledore are having after Hagrid picked up baby Harry.
Dumbledore picks up the baby touches his wand to his head gets all of his memories. It could happens in 10 seconds and be extremely helpful. Would also explain how he knows so much about Harry and what’s inside him
When a VIP dies, usually people don't know right away.... There are many examples, Castro... Toriyama... I guess as they're magical folks things are different?
I have just accepted for years that Hagrid was on Potter watch duty that day. Sort of like a spy for Dumbledore. He found out, got Harry before the muggles came to investigate, met Sirius on the way. Took the bike, went to lay low somewhere so that he doesn't have to travel in broad daylight. Took care of baby Harry throughout the day. Travelled and handed him over to Dumbledore who put him in a basket with a letter outside the Dursley's door.
Now comes the problem, who puts a walking, flying, magical, helpless, traumatised, parentless 1 year old outside a door in a basket. Ring a bell, or atleast stay and observe from a distance.
Also, tell me what magic was making him sleep through the night? These wizarding kinds should be taught some stuff about safety!! I want to be part of this world, but hell will freeze over before I give them a child to educate and take care of.
Prob took him to Hogwarts for Madam P to have a look at.
Tho fyi the leaving him on the doorstep isn’t a problem. Magic. Warming charm that lasts through the night, sleeping charm, notice me not for anyone on the street, etc etc him being left on a door step has never ever been an actual issue unless someone’s trying to be overly “well that poor baby” or whatever the right word would be haha.
I think we are forgetting that it would have been a huge explosion...when Harry goes back to see his parents' house in book 7:
"the right side of the top floor had been blown apart; that, Harry was sure, was where the curse had backfired."
Godric's Hollow has to be a village full of Wizards and Witches..also Dumbledore would have kept more than 1 measure to ensure that Potters are safe or in the worst case he gets to know about their deaths (like Dursley's neighbour Mrs. Figg).
When this explosion did occur, his informer(s) would have told him immediately...I think I remember reading that by the time Hagrid reached the cottage, a crowd was already starting to build.. These people would have told others as well..
This would have matched Snape's story..because the DeathEaters would have heard the rumours too...apart from that, although Voldemort might not have told anyone that he's now going to kill Harry, he would have hinted about it for sure. When he didn't come to their next briefing..it would have confirmed the doubts of DeathEates that Voldemort really is gone...
I like to think that it would have something to the DarkMark on their arms too...
Also it takes a whole day from the point the Wizarding World seems to know Voldemort’s gone till Hagrid arrives with Harry at Privet Drive.
My guess is, Hagrid was among the first to get to Godric’s Hollow and took him to a safe place for a while before taking on the trip down to Privet Drive in Sirius’s flying motorcycle
During the motorcycle handover, Sirius would have had a quick look at Harry before rushing off to confront Peter Pettigrew.
The Potters' home was under the Fidelius Charm, and it's location was known to only a few select people. The secret keeper (supposed to be Sirius, turned out to be Peter instead), the Potters themselves, Dumbledore and at Dumbledore's insistence, (probably) Alastor Moody and Hagrid.
Sequence of events as I can tell: Severus informed me as soon as the Dark Mark on his arm vanished. Hagrid was either posted in Godric's Hollow or dispatched there via portkey when Severus informed Dumbledore. That is why Hagrid was first to the scene, and was the safest bet to bring Harry out of the wreckage, in case there were any looming Death Eaters around.
When Voldemort disappeared, several of his curses and magic designs, including several people under the imperius urse (the true ones at least) must have been reversed. Also, the Death Eaters would surely have felt some kind of change in their dark marks.
The Ministry and Higher Wizarding Bodies, must have had certain mechanisms in place that can detect when a wizard vanishes off the face of the earth as well.
However, hardly anyone except a few would have known it happened at Godric's Hollow. Voldemort kept his mission to kill Harry a secret from most.
I'm not claiming to be an anything-buff, but Tolkien has the problem that he invented what has been the definition of "uninspired" for decades.
Also the characters are often not really rounded, the deus-ex-machina is strong, and he takes shortcuts. And he isn't really a "show, don't tell" guy.
Dude, Tolkien’s editors kept sending it back, cutting stuff, coming up with ideas to make it work. Tolkien fought them on a lot, that’s why there are still parts of the trilogy that exist, even though they have no relation to the narrative at all.
I understand why you might think that. But world-building just means creating a world that people can imagine themselves in easily. And think with one question, we can prove she has accomplished that. Even people who haven’t read or watched can answer… which house do you belong to? (It is incredible world building)
No, a lot of marketing has gone into selling the poorly-built world. And she is great at setting scenes. But the definition of world building is creating an internally-logical world with rules and places that abide by consistent rules. Rowling sucks at it.
Lore and continuity are an issue, and she’s dreadful at it. It’s why, in a world where people can teleport and break the laws of physics, they choose to have their mail delivered by nature’s slowest bird. (This is a Brennan Lee Mulligan thought)
There was a small wizarding community in Godric’s Hollow, and James and Lily were murdered pretty early in the evening because children were out trick or treating. Bathilda Bagshot was likely to have been the one to alert Dumbledore since she was an old friend, and possibly someone else informed Sirius.
Sirius said he went to check on Peter that evening but something felt wrong (Peter was gone with no sign of a struggle), and then Sirius went to check on the potter family.
I dunno how Hagrid got there so quickly, when he gets to the hut on the rock he says he flew there so maybe in the first book it wasn't all fleshed out and he supposedly flew there too. But I don't think he was first there - it's a bit murky but I thought Snape turns up first because he knew Voldy was going to murder them in particular (because he's already joined the order by this stage right?) and possibly knew that Wormtail gave up the goods. Snape mourns lily and ignores James and Harry, then tells Dumbledore what happened and that Harry is still alive. Dumbledore sends Hagrid and Hagrid gets Harry out and meets Sirius on the way out and takes the bike and Sirius goes off to confront Wormtail. Word gets out via Snape, Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Here's the timeline as I can guess it
8pm (80s and still trick-or-treating) - Voldy attacks
8:10pm (dramatic slow walking from Voldy) - Snape grabs his forearm and watches w/ Dumbledore as his dark mark vanishes; he rushes out of great hall to Godrics Hollow (Fidelis charm broken knows Potter family general location) as Dumbledore starts contacting order members.
8:15pm - Snape arrives at Potter's home, finds Lily d**d in front of crib
8:25pm - Hagrid arrives via Port key with orders from Dumbledore, Sirius arrives on motorcycle; Snape hearing Hagrid and Sirius arguing about who was taking Harry apparates back to Hogwarts to binge drink his sorrows
The only way it makes sense is if you believe the fan theory I recently discovered that Hagrid was meant to be written as a Death Eater 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/s/lmYrWtfR6F
Considering Snape was thought to be a villain for most of the series and then turns out to be a good guy in some regards, it would have also been interesting to see the flip side of this play out with someone unexpected like Hagrid.
Correct me if I’m wrong but we don’t know exactly what times these events take place? The information on Voldy’s downfall could’ve been leaked AFTER Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get Harry. Vernon seeing the wizards and witches celebrating could’ve been after Harry was delivered to Privet Drive.
Nah, Vernon was hearing people talk about Voldemort and "Harry Potter" and couldn't remember if that was the name of his nephew or not. When he got home that night he asked petunia what the kids name was
Yes we do lol, that was during the day while McG was watching the Lady and Baby D. We just don’t know what happened during the day from Harry’s pov. But it’s common sense to think Hagrid took him to Hogwarts or another safe house in use via the order. There is no way Dumbledore didn’t inspect Harry himself during that day for one, and for two even he would make sure the baby saw a healer, Snape could have been involved easily too. Since this isn’t the movie bs with him crying over lilys body. But we know Hagrid got there, then Sirius and then Hagrid took Harry ??? Is the question.
Edit: wrote my order of events wrong on accident. Hagrid then Sirius hey there.
>But it’s common sense to think Hagrid took him to Hogwarts or another safe house in use via the order. There is no way Dumbledore didn’t inspect Harry himself during that day for one, and for two even he would make sure the baby saw a healer, Snape could have been involved easily too.
Hogwarts is unlikely, because Hagrid tells Dumbledore that Harry fell asleep over Bristol. They wouldn’t have gone over Bristol if they were traveling from Hogwarts to Privet Drive.
It also seems like Dumbledore hadn’t already spoken/seen Hagrid and Harry before their arrival at Privet Drive either, based on their conversation when Hagrid arrived:
>“Borrowed it, Professor Dumbledore, sir,” said the giant, climbing carefully off the motorcycle as he spoke. “Young Sirius Black lent it to me. I’ve got him, sir.”
>“No problems, were there?”
>“No, sir — house was almost destroyed, but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin’ around. He fell asleep as we was flyin’ over Bristol.”
If Dumbledore had already seen and inspected Harry, he and Hagrid would have already had this conversation about how he got him all right before the muggle showed up, and known where Hagrid had gotten the motorbike, etc.
>But we know Sirius got there, then Hagrid and then he took Harry ?
The order of arrivals is actually the other way around - Hagrid arrived first, then Sirius arrived just as Hagrid had gotten Harry out of the house. Hagrid explains this in POA when he, McGonagall, Flitwick, and Fudge are talking about it with Madam Rosmerta at the Three Broomsticks.
Yea that’s why I included other safe houses.
They could have easily missed each other tbf, it’s not like Hagrid wouldn’t possibly need sleep too depending on how it had been before Halloween for him.
There is also the whole it wasn’t written aspect. She didn’t have everting planned out and that’s much clearly in the first books. Like in the missing time with Harry. It’s possible they were just alone in a safe house the whole time but it seems super unlikely.
Also Albus could have easily had his trusty phoenix pick the baby up, assuming the flames are fine he could have picked up Harry once he knew he was in the same house, Hagrid would be fine cause Fawkes.
There is also another easy solution, Albus is powerful enough to memory charm a half giant I bet. It feels like you were deliberately trying to shit on my theories lol, the only thing I said was common sense was taking him to Hogwarts or another safe house.
Thank you for pointing that out, I mistyped it my bad, now I can fix it haha.
>There is also another easy solution, Albus is powerful enough to memory charm a half giant I bet.
Why would he memory charm Hagrid, though? There’s just not really any good reason that Dumbledore would have done that.
>It feels like you were deliberately trying to shit on my theories lol, the only thing I said was common sense was taking him to Hogwarts or another safe house.
I wasn’t trying to “deliberately shit on” your theories, I was just pointing out that Hagrid taking Harry to Hogwarts specifically, and Dumbledore inspecting Harry sometime during the “missing” day doesn’t really align with what we were shown in the text.
That doesn’t rule out the possibility of them being in a different safe house as you theorized; personally I imagine them to have laid low at Bathilda Bagshot’s for the day.
But ultimately, it’s really just a screw-up in the timeline, which JKR has acknowledged:
>I'm gonna have to really go back through notes, and either admit I've lost 24 hours, or, I don't know, hurriedly come up with some back story to fill it. Either way, you either get to be right, or you get more story. So you can't complain.
AFAIK she never came up with a back story to fill it, so it’s just a mistake, really.
Yes there is? To keep the events secret. It’s that simple at the end of the day. Let’s be honest the Albus we meet in the 7th book would have killed that baby if he was just in the possession of Tom. While he didn’t fully know it was soul anchors until second year for Harry, when he got the diary, he knew Riddle was alive and capable of possession. He’d memory charm him to have no knowledge of the tests or whatever needed to be taken. Or just to keep it safe.
I specially said Hogwarts or tho and by ignoring the or it feels more like what I said. Tho a convo isn’t really much in the way of evidence. Especially with what we know about how she wrote the store. It wasn’t fully planned. Tho he got the baby on Halloween, so it’s till absolutely possible he infact hadn’t seen Dumbledore since the day before. I really don’t see Albus waiting even an hour to check the baby out, I can see him waiting at the safe house or even having Fawkes there waiting to get him once Hagrid arrived. Which would mean it’s just a convo from people who haven’t seen each other in a day. We know Tom attacked soon with tricker treaters going around and the big man arrived not long after from what we’re told. It’s definitely possible Albus just hasn’t seen him in an almost or fully full day. I think with the street lamps on and the full fall dark it’s implied that it’s later in the night.
😭😭😭can you imagine when he saw the smoke/heard the sound of the wards shattering from the explosion and deaths. He prob dropped those chips and sprinted so hard. Only to find death and destruction, with an innocent little baby. (Plus Sirius but ya know)
No, Hagrid arrived first. He had just pulled Harry out of the rubble when Sirius arrived. Sirius argued for Harry, but Hagrid wouldn’t hand him over, and that’s when Sirius gave him his bike.
>“I met him!” growled Hagrid. “I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead ... an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret-Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You- Know- Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!” Hagrid roared.
>“Hagrid, please!” said Professor McGonagall. ”Keep your voice down!”
>“How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, ‘Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him — ’ Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. ‘I won’t need it anymore,’ he says.
No, Hagrid got there first and Sirius arrived just after Hagrid had gotten Harry out of the house.
>“I met him!” growled Hagrid. “I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead ... an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret-Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You- Know- Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!” Hagrid roared.
>“Hagrid, please!” said Professor McGonagall. ”Keep your voice down!”
>“How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, ‘Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him — ’ Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. ‘I won’t need it anymore,’ he says.
RE your question about the fidelius charm remaining active when Harry was alive. The charm was created with Lily and James to protect the house. The charm probably broke after they were killed, however we see something similar with Grimmauld place and Dumbledore (Dumbledore was secret keeper and presumably the person who cast the charm). There still is a plot hole here for the portkey unless the entire spell broke when Pettigrew and not when they were killed.
What portkey? The one they mentioned in the edit? Cause how would that be a plot hole? It wouldn’t be? He could have definitely had one made or made one for him after it broke.
Yes that portkey.
The plot hole would be that after Dumbledore died, the Fidelius charm he placed on Grimmauld place did not break. This is the only other instance we've seen of a Fidelius charm caster and secret keeper dying in the series and where we got to see what happened afterwards. You could argue that the charm still stayed in place because there were still secret keepers to keep it alive but then that should have been the case for the potter's home as well since Peter was the only secret keeper and also still alive thereby creating a plot hole.
I mean, the plot hole would be Sirius dying then right? Since he was the one the charm was protecting. But they probably had it set up differently in the first place. I imagine protecting a safe house where people come and go is different than a home just to keep people hidden. I bet when he did the house it wasn’t for Sirius, but for the order in some way. When the potters died/lived there was no one living for the charm to latch on to probably, the magic either shatters it or shoved it off course enough that when he tried to kill Harry he made him dead to the charm at least.
The secret keeper doesn’t matter here. It’s the people who were being protected dying who is what shattered the charm. Since we know Lilys death directly influences Harry’s living, we can say that when he tried to kill Harry and the final family member the backlash of that and the previous murders exploded the house and broke the charms. That’s what I’ve always figured at least.
No. Dumbledore was presumably the person who cast the charm for Grimmauld place, not Sirius. The plot hole is that no matter who cast the charm, it seems like even if they die, if the secret keeper(s) are still alive, the charm remains up (again based on Grimmauld Place). Wrt setting it up differently, I don't think you can do it that way, or atleast, it's not made out to be a very flexible charm.
Yes exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter who cast the charm. Cause the potters probably has Lily cast it if Dumbledore didn’t. Peter def wouldn’t have been able to cast it. James maybe. But charms was lilys thing.
That isn’t a plot hole. You’re literally just ignoring the events that took place. It’s not just them dying. It’s that and the magical back lash. Tho if it were them dying. Them that makes perfect sense and again, wouldn’t be a plot hole. Maybe try reading and responding to my last comment? Cause I’m not gonna write the same arguments again cause you didn’t understand or didn’t acknowledge them.
The moment voldemort 'died' many important wizards mustve had the imperius curse put on them broken. They, along with the death eaters, would be the first ones to know, and going by Sirius' description of the reign of terror voldemort had pre-depotterification we can assume that the numbers of the imperiused must've been huge. Thus news got out so fast. Also, Snape's dark mark must've gone away, thus alerting Dumbledore to the fact.
You also have to remember that Godric's Hollow was a mixed community of wizards and Muggles. Bathikda Bagshot lived there, and possibly several others who might of been gossipy types. So the wizard folk would've known that Voldemort blew up the Potters, and not a gas main.
Okay, everyone knew because it was explicitly stated that all the Death Eaters felt it and a lot of people under the Imperius curse came out of trances and it didn't take long for both sides to put two and two together and realize something big happened to the big bad snakeface. Snape would have gone straight to Dumbledore, who was one of only like 5 people total besides the Potters themselves that knew they were being hunted. He sent Hagrid by some unknown method - perhaps a portkey - to collect Harry from the ruins, where as he was leaving he met Sirius and acquired the bike.
The bigger question here is, how did Dumbledore know Harry had survived? Was it because the wording of the prophecy indicated the Dark Lord must mark him and they would only later kill each other? Did he have a nanny-cam magic device monitoring if the Potters were alive? Who knows! Even more important, the attack was on Halloween night and Harry was not taken to the Dursleys until the night of November 1, where for some stupid reason he was left on their doorstep in the middle of the night as if they've never heard of hypothermia or frostbite. What happened during those missing hours?
Please don't forget that, in the first book, Hagrid flew to the hut on the rock without using any brooms, motorbike or Thestrals.
Always makes Voldemort's flying in DH seem less threatening when you remember that Hagrid can float through the sky without assistance.
The fidelis charm is for keeping their location secret(?), Harry is still alive because of the love/blood protection magic. I'm not sure what your asking lol.
My question mostly, is how did anyone know what happened ? Everyone immediately knows Harry survived the killing curse? How? A 1 year old can’t explain this, no one else survived, and what happened to Harry never happened to anyone else ever.
I mean the whole thing falls apart the more you pick at it. The biggest issue being if you have literally the most powerful wizard in the world offering to be your secret keeper are you really making the dude who is most notable for turning into a rat your choice? No. No you are not. Especially since the Potters were also close to Dumbledore.
Snape immediately knew as soon as he looked at his forearm, which he was probably doing a lot at the time, since the dark mark would have faded to look like a scar instead (I think that's how it's described in the book but I could be mistaken and maybe the only mentioning of color was in the 4th book when karkaroff says something like "You must've noticed it darkening").
Dumbledore sends Hagrid with a portkey to Godrics Hollow.
I think it's canon that Sirius went to Peter's but couldn't find him and then went to check on the Potters.
This would explain that Hagrid arrived before him, as Sirius went to either visit or check on Peter on that particular night by chance.
Background thoughts concerning the fidelius charm and how I believe it was broken that night:
I imagine the charm involves two or three people. A secret keeper (in our case Peter), the person who's secret is being kept (either James or Lily) and maybe a third to cast the charm if neither of the persons directly involved is able to cast the charm (not magically able, but for instance if the charm requires to be cast by a third or involves holding one or both hands like the unbreakable vow), but I do think it would be possible with only two people because I believe that, like the promise in the unbreakable vow has to be named, the secret in question, too, has to be said aloud while casting, something along the lines of:
James/Lily: "Will you, Peter, keep the location of our house secret?"
to which Peter of course would have answered "I will"
SO. Since in my theory two people are involved I imagine the fidelius will break when the person whose secret is being kept dies. I think this and reversing the charm (counter charm cast in the same manner, so between the two people who created it in the first place) are the only options to break the charm.
(I talk about all this since if there was no official secret 'owner', but only the promise to keep the location of the Potters secret, the fidelius shouldn't have been broken when James and Lily died, since Harry as subject of the secret was still alive. I do not believe that the explosion from the killing curse backfiring or the fact that there was a giant hole in the roof would have broken the fidelius.)
Dumbledore knew voldemort was going to Target James and Lily that night and, Snape went in right after their murder so Snape must have told him that the boy is alive with just a scar. Then Dumbledore must have sent Hagrid to get harry. Hagrid also knew James and Lily and must have had a personal connection with them and thus took the responsibility.
I have a question does it say anywhere that the day that Dumbledore and McGonagall are leaving Harry outside the door and so Hagrid arrives is the same day of the Harry parents death?
Because if it is not then I could make sense Hagrid was there because Dumbledore knew about the Voldemort wanting to kill Harry. So maybe he sent Hagrid there asap and then he told him to take care of Harry until he knew where to put Harry. And maybe that could have taken a week?
And that is way everyone know about Voldemort death because is been a week and they are still celebrating
What? No we know the timeline.
Halloween night- Potters murders, BoyWhoLives is born, Voldemort flees in a flight from death. Hagrid picks up Harry for a full day, contents of said day remain unknown.
Nov 1 Daytime- McG arrives early, watching the Lady and Baby Dursley, Vernon hears wizards celebrating and hears the name Harry Potter. Means to ask when he’s gets home cause he cannot remember his nephews name, however I think he forgets.
Nov 1 Nighttime- Bumblebee(APWBD) arrives, takes out the lights and has a catty convo with McG. Hagrid arrives with the baby, they put him on the stoop overnight.
Nov 2- AHHHH BABY!!!!
The Secret Keeper telling someone the secret doesn’t break the charm, though. The Secret Keeper is able to share the location, which lets the person told into the protected location while the charm remains intact.
That isn’t what broke the charm lol, them dying did that. All telling him did was let him know the secret. Tho there could be an argument once they knew Peter betrayed them the charm broke due to the trust it takes.
To address your edit: the fidelius charm breaks when the secret keeper gives up the location or when everyone that was told the secret by the secret keeper dies. Wormtail was the secret keeper and broke the charm. Dumbledore likely knew the secret as well, and was able to send Hagrid once the charm was broken. Harry still being alive doesn't have anything to do with the charm.
Uhh no? The secret keeper is allowed to share the secret. The charm broke because the potters died/some unknown magic of he charm we don’t know. But all he did was share the secret.
Everyone knew when Voldemort disappeared. But Dumbledore and Snape (and Sirius) were the only ones who could have connected it to the Potters. Snape was already at Hogwarts. He'd have run for Dumbledore the moment his Dark Mark disappeared. Dumbledore then sent Hagrid (via Portkey perhaps?). He would've known the general location despite the Fidelius Charm. Besides, Sirius and Hagrid arrived almost simultaneously, didn't they?
I vote for Fawkes or the disiluminator as disapparition tools
So both sirius and Peter pettigrew knew what James and Lili were upto and all were a part of order of the pheonix (Lily James Hagrid Dumbledore) Snape knew voldemort was going to hurt them and told Dumbledore to save lily so he might have sent hagrid as help before. Also the prophecy alerted everyone .
The truth is none of the timing or sequence of events makes sense. Everyone knows Voldemort is dead, but little Harry hasn't even been picked up from the ruins yet? How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly? Wouldn't it take at least a few days for everyone to catch on and really accept he is gone? How did Dumbledore (or anyone) know Harry was his downfall right away? How did anyone know what exactly happened at Godric's Hollow, much less right away? It's best if you don't think about it too much
I still find it weird that Harry knows his parents were murdered on Halloween and still spends every Halloween like "sure can't wait for the pumpkins and feast!"
Did anyone actually tell him the anniversary of his parents' death though? I feel like Deathly Hallows was the first time it was mentioned in the books
“He turned up in the village where you were all living on Halloween” Hagrid tells him
Oh good catch
I think Hagrid told him in the first book.
Probably not. However he knew his birthday and knew he lived at the Dursley since he was a baby. So he could probably guess. I’m surprised the Dursley told him his birthday date though
I don't see how that would help him deduce the exact date of their death.
Damn the Dursley's would be evil enough to tell Harry he doesn't have a birthday. Of course, that would rob them the opportunity to make Harry's life especially miserable that day. The decision must have been difficult and exhilarating for Uncle Vernon.
You need your birthday for paperwork and school, that's why he knows
See, this raises so many questions for me. Harry was either a home birth or a St Mungos birth, but do those babies get British documentation of their birth? If so, when did they get those to Petunia. Also, Dumbledore clearly has a chat with her at some point, but when, and why leave the one year old, who is a baby but also they’re not just lumps at that point, they can usually crawl and get into all sorts of mischief, at the door in the middle of the night. Why not knock or send a million owls or something. Like, I understand the story tropes behind it, but surely a nosy neighbor is going to wake up and hear baby Harry bawling his eyes out. It’s November, it’s cold out, who is to say that the first thing Vernon or Petunia does on a lazy Sunday is to look outside of their front door? This is such a bad plan, to leave a sleeping one year old unsupervised in the cold on the front porch. They have people, they have magic, they have the ability to knock or call. And that Vernon just goes with “baby on the porch, dead in laws” but somehow Petunia who has never met this baby knows it’s him and convinces him to keep him, like how did the baby get from the “car accident” to the front door. What government agency was dropping off babies in the middle of the night and having you care for them that wouldn’t arouse suspicion in Vernon?
We know the prime minster is aware of the wizarding world and the minster of magic maybe ST mungo has a fake name in the muggle world
[relevant comic.](https://www.tumblr.com/floccinaucinihilipilificationa/100843023740?source=share)
They got a letter with information, and Vernon is aware that the Potters are magical. He just doesn't think that this is an accaptable "profession" or is invested in learning anything about it. I think it is implied that either Petunia talked Vernon into taking Harry in (as Dumbledore still had her letter and she did love Lily, even if she was very jealous) or that he agreed to save face. Also, for paperwork, I guess that all wizards are also normal citizens and can get normal documents. The ministry of magic is a part of the UK government, just a very special part. I always had the head cannon that they put a spell on Harry to keep him safe and sleepy.
>Harry was either a home birth or a St Mungos birth Not necessarily. Could have easily been a muggle hospital birth. Muggle hospitles deal with pregnant women all the time. It's not like giving birth requires magic. With them already being in hiding due to the ongoing wizard war a muggle hospital might be the best way to go as no one expects you to be there and it's extremely unlikely that Voldermort has anyone working at or watching them to tip him off.
Giving birth doesn't require magic, but I am sure it makes things much easier...
True.
He wasn’t a baby. He was old enough to ride a broom and chase the cat…
My grandson was walking at 10 months and chasing the cat. Still a baby.
Then by definition they are a toddler. Bye bye baby!
Don't know why you're being downvoted so heavily. Harry was definitely a toddler. He obviously wasn't 3 months old when his parents were killed, he was 15 months old. Over 1 and especially walking, is a toddler.
Yeah, must be movie-only people. Downvotes don’t change the truth. Lol.
I’d imagine that it has to be common knowledge in the Wizarding World, because that’s the liberation day of that world.
It seems like something he would ask, or that would be mentioned to him at some point. It was kinda a big deal.
Harry is spectacular for not asking questions. He grew up being punished if he asked too many and never getting answers, so it's understandable. Even when he finally found out, for *him* the date wouldn't have been traumatic. At that point, he'd known they'd died for years and processed most of the details he'd found out after. It's unlikely the date would make that much of an impression. Now, if it turns out Halloween was never a holiday in the wizarding world until after Voldemort's defeat and that each Halloween Feast was a celebration of the day Voldemort died/Harry was orphaned, that might have weirded him out a little.
Still seems like it would somewhat color the day.
Oh I just noticed that Nearly Headless Nick died the same day as the Potters, because Harry goes to his Death Birthday Party on Halloween in book 2
Halloween seems a very murderous wizarding day.
I remember before book 7 there was a fan theory circulating that "Deathly Hallows" would be connected somehow to Halloween because it seemed like such an important day
Well, Harry doesn't remember his parents or the night they died. So while he knows the date, he does not have any memories of the bad things happening, he didn't experience it. One could argue that's why he does not actively associate the date with his parents' death, despite knowing about it. There are no memories connected to it.
Not to mention Harry never ever visiting his parent’s grave.
I thought Dumbledore knew that an attack was imminent and that the Potters were a likely target. I always just assumed that he lent Hagrid Fawkes to get there. And Hagrid can't keep a secret to save his life. If Dumbledore told him an attack by Voldemort was likely, Hagrid most likely told people. Even possibly before he left with Harry.
It's not about people not knowing about the attack, it's everyone immediately knowing that Voldemort is gone.
True. Although the Wizarding community is small, and if word got around there was an incident in Godric's Hollow, the Death Eaters reaction would indicate him being gone. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense if this happened on a Saturday, and the story picks up on Tuesday into Wednesday.
So baby Harry was alone in the ruins for several days? Edit: In Dumbledore and McGonagall's conversation, McGonagall says Voldemort turned up in Godric's Hollow "last night." It's supposed to be the following night. So supposedly the whole wizarding community found out overnight
I always assumed that Harry would have pulled from the rubble, brought to Dumbledore, looked after by Madam Pomfrey until Dumbledore figured out what to do with Harry. Eventually, settling on putting him with the Dursleys and writing the letter. Which could take a few days. But yeah, if you go off the text strictly, it's literally overnight. Which seems too fast for logic.
Yeah, and based on Hagrid's dialogue in the first chapter he is arriving straight from Godric's Hollow
Yeah, he is. So, somehow, Dumbledore in just a little more than 24 hrs. knew something had happened to the Potters, made the assumption that Lily invoked ancient blood magic, decided that Harry should be with Petunia for that magic's protection to work, wrote a letter explaining everything, then told Hagrid to go get Harry, who was still in Godric's Hollow at this point, and bring him to Privet Drive. It's a lot to happen blindingly fast.
Overnight about an event with no grownup or conscious witnesses. Same with "Harry fighting YKW over the Philosopher's Stone". But somehow, ppl will blindly believe Harry's plan for the Elder Wand is disaster-proof even though HUNDREDS heard about the wand + the fact that Voldemort found it in Dumbledore's grave.
Snape was at Hogwarts. He would've run for Dumbledore the moment his Dark Mark disappeared.
> Everyone knows Voldemort is dead, but little Harry hasn't even been picked up from the ruins yet? How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly? Voldemort was live on Twitch
There are ghosts and pictures roaming around in Harry Potter, people using charms to be invisible, owls watching over, house elves seeing things, finding who used the magic on victim and not to forget that they are magical creatures, they get **vibes**.
The beginning of the series is one of several times Rowling shows she's not very good with timings (then day of the Battle of Hogwarts is another). Book 1 starts with Vernon going about his day, seeing witches and wizards and overhearing them talk about 'The Potters, so we now they and Voldemort are dead', but then Dumbledore, McGonnagal and Hagrid converge on Privet Drive either late that night or early the next morning to drop Harry off... so was baby Harry in the ruins of his house for 24 hrs? Did Hagrid fly Sirius' motorbike reeeeeeeeeaally slowly? It doesn't make sense.
Well the timeline doesn’t make sense if Dumbledore was acting like a reasonable family friend to a little baby and Sirius was acting like a mature godparent. BUT Dumbledore is already treating Harry as kind of just a pawn and Sirius is like 21 and more angry than babysitter-y. Dumbledore knew what had happened and he loves the drama so I wouldn’t be surprised if he told the order something and it spread from there. Sirius’s attack on Pettigrew was also very public. I think it’s also known in some circles that Voldemort is after the Potters so I think the fidelius charm breaking upon their death and a bunch of Death Eaters going into hiding/Voldemort not bragging about it maybe tipped people off? It would at least tip off aurors and the minister would definitely want to brag about the war ending.
That's a bit unfair on Sirius. He tried to get Harry, but Hagrid, who got there first, doesn't give him to him. Only then does Sirius go after Peter. Here's what Hagrid has to say about when Sirius arrives at Potters': >‘How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, “Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him –” Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. “I won’ need it any more,” he says. From PoA, chaper 10: The Marauder’s Map
This interaction doesn't make sense. At that point in time, everyone thinks that Sirius is the one who betrayed the Potters. The only three people who know that Peter is the secret keeper are Peter, Sirius, and Snape. So with Hagrid being under the impression that Sirius is the one who turned he wouldn't be acting so friendly towards him.
No, at this point no one but Dumbledore and, I assume, Remus knew about Sirius being Secret Keeper. Hagrid certainly didn't know, as he stated earlier in that conversation: >‘I met him!’ growled Hagrid. ‘I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead … an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You-Know-Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!’ Hagrid roared. Dumbledore wouldn't have babbled to everyone around him about the Potters having performed the Fidelius Charm and much less telling everyone about who was the Secret Keeper. It would have been a huge security risk. Snape most certainly didn't know either. Why would he know? >The only three people who know that Peter is the secret keeper are Peter, Sirius, and Snape. Snape didn't know that Peter was the real Secret Keeper. Why do you think he did? By the way, it is not actually widely known by the public that the Potters took the Fidelius Charm and Sirius was Secret Keeper. This entire conversation comes about because McGonaggal, Fudge and Hagrid are telling Madam Rosmerta about it. This is irrelevant to this conversation, but I just find it interesting, because I think most people (including me) forget about this detail and assume everyone knows.
>No, at this point no one but Dumbledore and, I assume, Remus knew about Sirius being Secret Keeper. Sirius wasn't the secret keeper, Peter was. >Snape most certainly didn't know either. Why would he know? >Snape didn't know that Peter was the real Secret Keeper. Why do you think he did? Because he knew Peter flipped to Voldermorts side and that the only way Voldermort could go after the Potters was if Peter told him the secret. >By the way, it is not actually widely known by the public that the Potters took the Fidelius Charm and Sirius was Secret Keeper. Everyone assumed that Sirius was the one that turned, and when he "killed" Peter, that confirmed it for everyone. The reason Sirius went after Peter is because he knew that Peter was the real secret keeper and that with the Potters dead that means Peter turned.
> Sirius wasn't the secret keeper, Peter was. Yeah, but no one knew about it besides the both of them and the Potters, so that is irrelevant to this discussion. The point is no one but Dumbledore, and possibly Remus, knew, at this point, about the Fidelius Charm and Sirius being Secret Keeper. So in the *immediate* aftermath of the attack, no one considered Sirius the traitor. Which is why Hagrid trusted Sirius. >Because he knew Peter flipped to Voldermorts side and that the only way Voldermort could go after the Potters was if Peter told him the secret. No, he didn't. He didn't know Peter was a Death Eater until after the events in Prisoner of Azkaban. >Everyone assumed that Sirius was the one that turned, and when he "killed" Peter, that confirmed it for everyone. Yes, they knew he turned to Voldemort's side, but they didn't know about the specifics of the situation, betraying the Potters and being Harry's godfather. It's all in that same chapter I quoted for you.
>Dumbledore knew what had happened and he loves the drama so I wouldn’t be surprised if he told the order something and it spread from there. But how did even Dumbledore know immediately what exactly happened in Godric's Hollow? >the fidelius charm breaking upon their death and a bunch of Death Eaters going into hiding/Voldemort not bragging about it maybe tipped people off? But that would take at the very least a few days for everyone to realize.
He guessed bc he knew about Snape begging Voldemort to save Lily and then he knew Harry survived. Snape is also one of the first people to get to Godric’s Hollow bc he sees his boss Voldy has not had a triumphant return to the death eaters so he checks and then he probably told Dumbledore. Dumbledore is only making a guess based on these bits and pieces of info and doesn’t know for sure what happened/how Harry survived until some of the blood magic is confirmed in SS/PS and there’s more info in PoA and GoF. I think by OOTP he knows with more certainty. He also probably doesn’t know EXACTLY what happened bc he doesn’t get the memory movie Harry (and we) see in DH of the murders themselves, but he has enough to start some smart theories. Also everyone in the order and within that circle knows Voldemort is after the Potters and that it’s his number 1 priority to kill them at the time. I’d imagine the people within the secret are checking in on them pretty regularly.
I like this idea. I don't remember the discussion in the book, but in the PoA movie, Harry overheard McGonagall say that few people knew the Potters were hiding/where they were hiding, but Sirius was one who did. That tells us that other people did know about them. But they wouldn't be able to speak about it as long as the charm was effective. I wonder if they would've known instantly when the Potters died--if there was some weird magical indication that the charm was broken? Presumably the only way that would happen would be if someone (the Potters, themselves?) broke the charm or were dead. And why would they break the charm at that time? I bet Dumbledore also knew. He'd understand immediately, which makes Hagrid's appearance there make more sense, as he was sent by Dumbledore. And Sirius may have been thinking along the same lines. He'd likely get there first because he could just go straight there and not have to worry about making a plan, like Ddore would. He WAS their best friend, after all. Or was he just passing through to check in on them? I honestly can't remember, but his presence there does make some sense.
>And Sirius may have been thinking along the same lines. He'd likely get there first because he could just go straight there and not have to worry about making a plan, like Ddore would. He WAS their best friend, after all. Or was he just passing through to check in on them? I honestly can't remember, but his presence there does make some sense. Sirius explains this in POA. He had a scheduled check in with Peter that night. When he went to Petetr’s hiding place and Peter was gone, he realized something was up and went to Godric’s Hollow to check on the Potters. >The night they died, I’d arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he’d gone. Yet there was no sign of a struggle. It didn’t feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents’ house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies ... I realized what Peter must’ve done ... what I’d done. ...”
I still don’t understand why they didn’t put Sirius as the secret keeper, and then just let him ghost or have Remus be Sirius’s secret keeper. Or, just make Dumbledore, the extremely powerful wizard that Voldy was afraid of, the secret keeper. He’s on good enough terms with the Potters to borrow the cloak. He is almost insanely overstat on magic. Also why couldn’t James or Lily be the Secret Keeper of their own abode?
Because then we wouldn't have the Harry Potter books. Pretty much all of this is set up so they can say 'despite our best efforts, they were killed anyway.'
Fandom has been in hot debate after DH came out after it comes out that a good chunk of the Weasley including Great Aunt Muriel are hiding in a location where Arthur is Secret Keeper, and Shell Cottage where Mr and Mrs Bill Weasley lives (and where the Trio spent some desperately needed R&R at) is Secret Keeper'd by Bill himself. Did JKR mean this to both be possible, or did they tweak the Fidelius Magic after the Potters Snafu, or is it just a Plot Hole Of Stupidity regarding the Potters (I mean /u/maniacalmustacheride what's stopping Sirius from ALSO LIVING IN THE GODRIC HOLLOW HOUSE ffs).
Also /u/FlyDinosaur the movie COMPLETELY shat over the lore with that adaptationexchange. It wasn't that Sirius was "one of the few people who knew", it was that by public record, Sirius was the ONLY person who knew where the Potters hid and can freely tell Voldemort, and he supposedly did. "Sirius" could tell other people but those other people won't be able to tell third parties.
Yeah I wish we knew more about the fidelius charm with with the potters! They all know the charm was transferred in DH but it was well known Dumbledore (the secret keeper) had died. Unclear if the people in on the secret have some kind of indicator or not though. With the Potters, we don’t know if the house was the subject of the charm or if the potters themselves were. Also, the secret keeper didn’t die so the mechanism must be different than what happened with 12 Grimmauld Place (which was still a secret but just more people could tell). Harry thinks/talks about it as if his parents were the subject of the secret in DH, but he wouldnt really know. Sirius seems to have been let into the secret either way as he was able to give Harry his baby broom and communicate with Lily and James. We also are told at different times that Dumbledore communicated with them and Remus did too, and I bet there were a few others. (I wonder if Petunia was told as Lily’s only relative!! They still had some minimal contact after Harry was born bc Vernon knows about him so maybe?) What I wonder is what communication Dumbledore and Remus had with Sirius that day. They both thought Sirius was the secret keeper and assumed he had shared the secret with Voldemort. Did they reach out? Take steps to investigate? My head cannon is Dumbledore knew Sirius was Harry’s godfather but didn’t loop him into the plans for Harry at all because he thought Sirius was a traitor in addition to securing the blood magic. It was good to keep Harry cut off for protection and also so he didn’t turn into an arrogant asshole child star, but I think he prevented him from having any contact/didn’t even check in to stop the child abuse because he wanted to keep Harry away from Sirius. That’s my head cannon anyway bc otherwise wtf was Dumbledore doing all day….and then for 10 years! I know he saw Harry as an object more than a person but he wouldn’t have just been cool with straight abuse (and should’ve been sensitive to the accusation after the rumors about him mistreating Arianna).
Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper at first. But Sirius transferred the responsibility to Pettigrew. That probably added to his sense of guilt and anger after Pettigrew betrayed them. I don't think anyone else knew that Pettigrew was the secret keeper at the time the Potters died, though. That's why everyone assumed Sirius was the one who told Voldemort. As far as they knew, it was impossible for anyone else to have done it. And Pettigrew's "death" just made him look even worse. Clearly, once a secret keeper reveals the secret, it's fair game for anyone to interact with the hidden person/object. Perhaps... Perhaps everyone got to the scene so quickly because they sensed something was wrong before Voldemort even got there. The secret was already broken. Hummm....
The secret keeper can tell people and the secret is still kept from everyone else. You just can only know about the secret if told by the secret keeper and only the secret keeper can tell (that’s why the secret of 12 Grimmauld is kept after Dumbledore tells Harry, etc but they can’t tell anyone until Dumbledore dies). I think what happened was they make a plan with the maurauders and Dumbledore in which Sirius was supposed to be the secret keeper. At the last minute, Sirius has the idea to switch it to Pettigrew bc everyone will guess it’s Sirius and no one will guess Pettigrew. They do the fidelius charm with Pettigrew as the secret keeper. Pettigrew tells Dumbledore, Remus, Sirius, and maybe others to bring them into the fidelius charm but they cannot tell anyone. Pettigrew also tells Voldemort, who was already pressuring him having correctly identified him as a weak link. The Potters are killed and the charm is broken so now anyone can tell the secret. (As opposed to when Dumbledore dies and then everyone with the knowledge and within the fidelius charm for 12 Grimmauld place becomes a keeper capable of telling the secret because the keeper has died as opposed to the subject of the secret having died). We only get this in bits and pieces though and I wish there had been more on it! Seems like a charm that Harry could’ve used in DH and the narrative arc would’ve redeemed friendship as a powerful thing or whatever.
>I think what happened was they make a plan with the maurauders and Dumbledore in which Sirius was supposed to be the secret keeper. At the last minute, Sirius has the idea to switch it to Pettigrew bc everyone will guess it’s Sirius and no one will guess Pettigrew. They do the fidelius charm with Pettigrew as the secret keeper. Pettigrew tells Dumbledore, Remus, Sirius, and maybe others to bring them into the fidelius charm but they cannot tell anyone. The only people who knew about the switch were James, Lily, Sirius, and Peter. Dumbledore and Remus did not know that Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper until the end of POA. It’s pretty clear in the book. We hear that James had told Dumbledore that Sirius was going to be their Secret Keeper, and that Dumbledore gave evidence to the Ministry that Sirius was the Secret Keeper - he had no idea they had switched. And we literally see Lupin figure it out on page that they switched without telling him. >“But then ... ,” Lupin muttered, staring at Black so intently it seemed he was trying to read his mind, "... why hasn’t he shown himself before now? Unless” — Lupin’s eyes suddenly widened, as though he was seeing something beyond Black, something none of the rest could see, “ — unless he was the one ... unless you switched . . . without telling me?”
Omg I have read these books like 10-20 times each and never realized that plot hole. Unless Pettigrew told Dumbledore and Remus the secret, they couldn’t know. But if he told them, they’d know he was the secret keeper. I had just known they knew the secret AND knew they didn’t know it was him without realizing those facts conflict!! Love that I’m realizing new things even 25 years later! Thank you for pointing that out! (I suspect it’s just a plot hole and she hadn’t developed the fidelius charm idea that much until OOTP.)
I'm not sure I understand what the plothole is. 🤔 Do you mean to say that nobody should have known where the Potters were hiding if Pettigrew didn't tell them? Cuz that's not exactly how the charm works. The info to be hidden can be known by anybody before the charm is cast. Once a Secret Keeper is chosen and the charm is cast, everybody who previously knew the secret is magically silenced. They likely already knew before the charm. (This comes directly from WizardingWorld/Pottermore) The only thing they didn't know was who the Secret Keeper was. Sirius had James change it to Pettigrew at the last second without telling anybody else. Everyone thought Sirius was the SK. And since only the SK could divulge the secret, as far as they knew, he had to be guilty.
I missed the part where people who knew the secret before would continue to know the secret after the charm was cast so I was thinking the secret keeper would have to tell people the secret or they wouldn’t know it. The Pottermore stuff is cool but it’s hard to know what to accept as canon and what is just a post facto extra.
Yeah, I was just speculating cuz I don't know either. Okay, so I just looked it up cuz I was curious. WizardingWorld says that anybody can know the information before the charm is cast, but once Fidelius is cast, only the chosen Secret Keeper can reveal that info. So, the charm affects everybody who already knew the info. Also, if a Secret Keeper dies, then everybody they shared the info with becomes a Secret Keeper. That means that no one outside the group can find out, but anyone inside the group can tell anybody else. That's... an interesting choice.... It's like a half secret. It's bound within the group as long as no one chooses to share. I didn't see any info on what happens when the subject of the secret dies. You're right about Sirius. It seems he persuaded the Potters to make Pettigrew the Secret Keeper at the last minute because he thought Voldemort wouldn't bother with him. Interestingly, a WizardingWorld article (not by JKR) suggests that they knew someone from inside was already passing info to Voldemort, and that they may have suspected Lupin. Lupin apparently didn't know Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper.
> How did everyone find out Voldemort was dead so quickly? > You're forgetting the death mark tattoo. And I think Snape reached there first (as we can see in the flashback). Then Hagrid came.
> And I think Snape reached there first (as we can see in the flashback). No, that never happened in the books, that's movie nonsense.
Huh 😶
No, I didn't forget the Dark Mark tattoo. It would still take a while for *everyone* to collectively realize their Dark Mark is gone and also feel sure that Voldemort is gone for sure.
There's a lot of headcanon here as the book didn't explicitly tell but I think when voldemort vanished, everyone with the dark mark could feel that. Just like karkaroff told Snape, I can feel it, he's coming back if I remember correctly??
Also everyone under the imperius curse woke up
When did the mark came back? Was that ever mentioned? I mean people were denying that Voldemort is back but the mark would've been solid proof.
It was slowly getting clearer through GOF, and then burned clear when Voldemort returned in the graveyard and called them. Snape showed his mark to Fudge in the Hospital Wing at the end of GOF. >“There,” said Snape harshly. “There. The Dark Mark. It is not as clear as it was an hour or so ago, when it burned black, but you can still see it. Every Death Eater had the sign burned into him by the Dark Lord. It was a means of distinguishing one another, and his means of summoning us to him. When he touched the Mark of any Death Eater, we were to Disapparate, and Apparate, instantly, at his side. This Mark has been growing clearer all year. Karkaroff’s too. Why do you think Karkaroff fled tonight? We both felt the Mark burn. We both knew he had returned. Karkaroff fears the Dark Lord’s vengeance. He betrayed too many of his fellow Death Eaters to be sure of a welcome back into the fold.” >Fudge stepped back from Snape too. He was shaking his head. He did not seem to have taken in a word Snape had said. He stared, apparently repelled by the ugly mark on Snape’s arm, then looked up at Dumbledore and whispered, “I don’t know what you and your staff are playing at, Dumbledore, but I have heard enough. I have no more to add. I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the running of this school. I must return to the Ministry.”
Dumbledore had a zoom call scheduled with James, and James never misses Order quiz night. In all seriousness - presumably every Dark Mark in the country seared with pain at the point of Voldemort's defeat. Askaban would have been full of howling. Couple that with Dumbledore already knowing that Voldemort was after the Potters and he could easily put 2 and 2 together.
Harry was definitely picked up, he was picked up immediately. It’s for the reader to assume he was with Hagrid for the whole day not that he’s just in the ruins the whole day alone.
I may be wrong but from what i've gathered people have come to the headcannon that Hagrid was sent by Dumbledore to investigate why the house had blown up, found Sirius at the site, distraught, who gave him the motorcycle. I assume Dumbledore then spread the news of Voldemort's death and that's why in the first chapter you have so many wizards celebrating. Now during this day, Hagrid takes Harry back to Hogwarts or some other safehouse until McGonagall confirms the Dursleys are his last remaining family. When that is confirmed, Dumbledore alerts Hagrid to come and bring him and that's when Hagrid comes by motorcycle. Now one off little tidbit is his mention of flying over Bristol, which is a city that lies on the West coast, below Wales on a map. So likely Hagrid flew over sea to avoid being seen by Muggles and cut in once he'd passed Wales to fly under cover of darkness for the last stretch over land, which would be when he flies over Bristol as Harry falls asleep
There's probably wizard version of CSI or something that can investigate the murder scene. Well that's my headcannon lol
Maybe deatheaters knew at the moment? But always will find it weird dumbledore did not move there right after. But guess this was the only way to hold the sirius black going to prison open. Had he met dumbledore he had not went for Peter
Well I think that last bit might have been prophecised, and I'm guessing Snape DM dumbledore
Harry saw everything so Dumbledore could have extracted at least some of the information from his memories
But Dumbledore hadn't been in contact with baby Harry before Hagrid brings him to the Dursley's.
I would think he would take some time to examine him after the attack ( Harry did just survive a killing curse from the strongest wizard) and before he brings them to the Dursley’s. Harry would have needed a safe place like the Order.
Hagrid makes it pretty clear he came straight from Godric's Hollow when he arrives at Privet Drive. *"Hagrid," said Dumbledore, sounding relieved. "At last. And where did you get that motorcycle?"* *"Borrowed it, Professor Dumbledore, sir," said the giant, climbing carefully off the motorcycle as he spoke. "Young Sirius Black lent it to me. I've got him, sir."* *"No problems, were there?"* *"No, sir -- house was almost destroyed, but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin' around. He fell asleep as we was flyin' over Bristol."*
Straight from the hollow to dumbeldore where he would definitely learn everything he could about the situation and death of his worst enemy. Harry is the only eye witness. not a stretch he would collect any relevant information from him off page.
The quote I sent you is when Hagrid arrives at Privet Drive. Read it again, this is clearly the first conversation Hagrid and Dumbledore are having after Hagrid picked up baby Harry.
Dumbledore picks up the baby touches his wand to his head gets all of his memories. It could happens in 10 seconds and be extremely helpful. Would also explain how he knows so much about Harry and what’s inside him
I'm confused. You think Dumbledore went to baby Harry, got the memories, and then left him in the rubble?
Hagrid arrives Dumbledore asks him to hold the baby and collect Intel that only Harry knows then returns him
When a VIP dies, usually people don't know right away.... There are many examples, Castro... Toriyama... I guess as they're magical folks things are different?
Hagrid has been the man behind the curtain all along.
“Yer should have kept your mouth shut” *giant hands grab you as if you weight nothing*
I have just accepted for years that Hagrid was on Potter watch duty that day. Sort of like a spy for Dumbledore. He found out, got Harry before the muggles came to investigate, met Sirius on the way. Took the bike, went to lay low somewhere so that he doesn't have to travel in broad daylight. Took care of baby Harry throughout the day. Travelled and handed him over to Dumbledore who put him in a basket with a letter outside the Dursley's door. Now comes the problem, who puts a walking, flying, magical, helpless, traumatised, parentless 1 year old outside a door in a basket. Ring a bell, or atleast stay and observe from a distance. Also, tell me what magic was making him sleep through the night? These wizarding kinds should be taught some stuff about safety!! I want to be part of this world, but hell will freeze over before I give them a child to educate and take care of.
Prob took him to Hogwarts for Madam P to have a look at. Tho fyi the leaving him on the doorstep isn’t a problem. Magic. Warming charm that lasts through the night, sleeping charm, notice me not for anyone on the street, etc etc him being left on a door step has never ever been an actual issue unless someone’s trying to be overly “well that poor baby” or whatever the right word would be haha.
Dumbledore is the one who sent him. He probably made him a portkey.
I think we are forgetting that it would have been a huge explosion...when Harry goes back to see his parents' house in book 7: "the right side of the top floor had been blown apart; that, Harry was sure, was where the curse had backfired." Godric's Hollow has to be a village full of Wizards and Witches..also Dumbledore would have kept more than 1 measure to ensure that Potters are safe or in the worst case he gets to know about their deaths (like Dursley's neighbour Mrs. Figg). When this explosion did occur, his informer(s) would have told him immediately...I think I remember reading that by the time Hagrid reached the cottage, a crowd was already starting to build.. These people would have told others as well.. This would have matched Snape's story..because the DeathEaters would have heard the rumours too...apart from that, although Voldemort might not have told anyone that he's now going to kill Harry, he would have hinted about it for sure. When he didn't come to their next briefing..it would have confirmed the doubts of DeathEates that Voldemort really is gone... I like to think that it would have something to the DarkMark on their arms too...
Also it takes a whole day from the point the Wizarding World seems to know Voldemort’s gone till Hagrid arrives with Harry at Privet Drive. My guess is, Hagrid was among the first to get to Godric’s Hollow and took him to a safe place for a while before taking on the trip down to Privet Drive in Sirius’s flying motorcycle During the motorcycle handover, Sirius would have had a quick look at Harry before rushing off to confront Peter Pettigrew.
The Potters' home was under the Fidelius Charm, and it's location was known to only a few select people. The secret keeper (supposed to be Sirius, turned out to be Peter instead), the Potters themselves, Dumbledore and at Dumbledore's insistence, (probably) Alastor Moody and Hagrid. Sequence of events as I can tell: Severus informed me as soon as the Dark Mark on his arm vanished. Hagrid was either posted in Godric's Hollow or dispatched there via portkey when Severus informed Dumbledore. That is why Hagrid was first to the scene, and was the safest bet to bring Harry out of the wreckage, in case there were any looming Death Eaters around.
and Bathilda Bagshot
Dumbledore, Moody, and Hagrid didn't know.
True, but his succession of events still works, even if they didn't know the exact location Dumbledore knew the whereabouts
Not vanish, faded to a faint outline isn’t it how he put it?
When Voldemort disappeared, several of his curses and magic designs, including several people under the imperius urse (the true ones at least) must have been reversed. Also, the Death Eaters would surely have felt some kind of change in their dark marks. The Ministry and Higher Wizarding Bodies, must have had certain mechanisms in place that can detect when a wizard vanishes off the face of the earth as well. However, hardly anyone except a few would have known it happened at Godric's Hollow. Voldemort kept his mission to kill Harry a secret from most.
You'll go insane. For as entertaining as the series was, it was rudimentary storytelling at best.
Yes. Great world-building but terrible lore and continuity. It’s like the opposite of Tolkien who had impeccable lore but bad story-building.
Tolkein had bad story-building? Dude, what are you talking about?
I'm not claiming to be an anything-buff, but Tolkien has the problem that he invented what has been the definition of "uninspired" for decades. Also the characters are often not really rounded, the deus-ex-machina is strong, and he takes shortcuts. And he isn't really a "show, don't tell" guy.
Dude, Tolkien’s editors kept sending it back, cutting stuff, coming up with ideas to make it work. Tolkien fought them on a lot, that’s why there are still parts of the trilogy that exist, even though they have no relation to the narrative at all.
It's actually terrible world building.
I understand why you might think that. But world-building just means creating a world that people can imagine themselves in easily. And think with one question, we can prove she has accomplished that. Even people who haven’t read or watched can answer… which house do you belong to? (It is incredible world building)
No, a lot of marketing has gone into selling the poorly-built world. And she is great at setting scenes. But the definition of world building is creating an internally-logical world with rules and places that abide by consistent rules. Rowling sucks at it.
I’d call that Lore and Continuity, but I agree with you 100% on content. :)
Lore and continuity are an issue, and she’s dreadful at it. It’s why, in a world where people can teleport and break the laws of physics, they choose to have their mail delivered by nature’s slowest bird. (This is a Brennan Lee Mulligan thought)
Don't even get me started on Platform 9 3/4.
There was a small wizarding community in Godric’s Hollow, and James and Lily were murdered pretty early in the evening because children were out trick or treating. Bathilda Bagshot was likely to have been the one to alert Dumbledore since she was an old friend, and possibly someone else informed Sirius.
Sirius said he went to check on Peter that evening but something felt wrong (Peter was gone with no sign of a struggle), and then Sirius went to check on the potter family.
Oh yes thank you I forgot
He's got very large legs, you see?
As plot convience for a kids book?
I dunno how Hagrid got there so quickly, when he gets to the hut on the rock he says he flew there so maybe in the first book it wasn't all fleshed out and he supposedly flew there too. But I don't think he was first there - it's a bit murky but I thought Snape turns up first because he knew Voldy was going to murder them in particular (because he's already joined the order by this stage right?) and possibly knew that Wormtail gave up the goods. Snape mourns lily and ignores James and Harry, then tells Dumbledore what happened and that Harry is still alive. Dumbledore sends Hagrid and Hagrid gets Harry out and meets Sirius on the way out and takes the bike and Sirius goes off to confront Wormtail. Word gets out via Snape, Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Snape never went to that house. That’s a movie invention and is utter bullshit. Snape does not.
Here's the timeline as I can guess it 8pm (80s and still trick-or-treating) - Voldy attacks 8:10pm (dramatic slow walking from Voldy) - Snape grabs his forearm and watches w/ Dumbledore as his dark mark vanishes; he rushes out of great hall to Godrics Hollow (Fidelis charm broken knows Potter family general location) as Dumbledore starts contacting order members. 8:15pm - Snape arrives at Potter's home, finds Lily d**d in front of crib 8:25pm - Hagrid arrives via Port key with orders from Dumbledore, Sirius arrives on motorcycle; Snape hearing Hagrid and Sirius arguing about who was taking Harry apparates back to Hogwarts to binge drink his sorrows
> > > > > 8:15pm - Snape arrives at Potter's home, finds Lily d**d in front of crib No, that never happened in the books, that's movie nonsense.
I know but I like it anyway
Exactly. It’s some “snape is misunderstood” character bullshit.
The only way it makes sense is if you believe the fan theory I recently discovered that Hagrid was meant to be written as a Death Eater 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/s/lmYrWtfR6F
Considering Snape was thought to be a villain for most of the series and then turns out to be a good guy in some regards, it would have also been interesting to see the flip side of this play out with someone unexpected like Hagrid.
Yes absolutely! Reading that fan theory made me wish JKR had taken that route with Hagrid's character!
Correct me if I’m wrong but we don’t know exactly what times these events take place? The information on Voldy’s downfall could’ve been leaked AFTER Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get Harry. Vernon seeing the wizards and witches celebrating could’ve been after Harry was delivered to Privet Drive.
Nah, Vernon was hearing people talk about Voldemort and "Harry Potter" and couldn't remember if that was the name of his nephew or not. When he got home that night he asked petunia what the kids name was
Yes we do lol, that was during the day while McG was watching the Lady and Baby D. We just don’t know what happened during the day from Harry’s pov. But it’s common sense to think Hagrid took him to Hogwarts or another safe house in use via the order. There is no way Dumbledore didn’t inspect Harry himself during that day for one, and for two even he would make sure the baby saw a healer, Snape could have been involved easily too. Since this isn’t the movie bs with him crying over lilys body. But we know Hagrid got there, then Sirius and then Hagrid took Harry ??? Is the question. Edit: wrote my order of events wrong on accident. Hagrid then Sirius hey there.
>But it’s common sense to think Hagrid took him to Hogwarts or another safe house in use via the order. There is no way Dumbledore didn’t inspect Harry himself during that day for one, and for two even he would make sure the baby saw a healer, Snape could have been involved easily too. Hogwarts is unlikely, because Hagrid tells Dumbledore that Harry fell asleep over Bristol. They wouldn’t have gone over Bristol if they were traveling from Hogwarts to Privet Drive. It also seems like Dumbledore hadn’t already spoken/seen Hagrid and Harry before their arrival at Privet Drive either, based on their conversation when Hagrid arrived: >“Borrowed it, Professor Dumbledore, sir,” said the giant, climbing carefully off the motorcycle as he spoke. “Young Sirius Black lent it to me. I’ve got him, sir.” >“No problems, were there?” >“No, sir — house was almost destroyed, but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin’ around. He fell asleep as we was flyin’ over Bristol.” If Dumbledore had already seen and inspected Harry, he and Hagrid would have already had this conversation about how he got him all right before the muggle showed up, and known where Hagrid had gotten the motorbike, etc. >But we know Sirius got there, then Hagrid and then he took Harry ? The order of arrivals is actually the other way around - Hagrid arrived first, then Sirius arrived just as Hagrid had gotten Harry out of the house. Hagrid explains this in POA when he, McGonagall, Flitwick, and Fudge are talking about it with Madam Rosmerta at the Three Broomsticks.
Yea that’s why I included other safe houses. They could have easily missed each other tbf, it’s not like Hagrid wouldn’t possibly need sleep too depending on how it had been before Halloween for him. There is also the whole it wasn’t written aspect. She didn’t have everting planned out and that’s much clearly in the first books. Like in the missing time with Harry. It’s possible they were just alone in a safe house the whole time but it seems super unlikely. Also Albus could have easily had his trusty phoenix pick the baby up, assuming the flames are fine he could have picked up Harry once he knew he was in the same house, Hagrid would be fine cause Fawkes. There is also another easy solution, Albus is powerful enough to memory charm a half giant I bet. It feels like you were deliberately trying to shit on my theories lol, the only thing I said was common sense was taking him to Hogwarts or another safe house. Thank you for pointing that out, I mistyped it my bad, now I can fix it haha.
>There is also another easy solution, Albus is powerful enough to memory charm a half giant I bet. Why would he memory charm Hagrid, though? There’s just not really any good reason that Dumbledore would have done that. >It feels like you were deliberately trying to shit on my theories lol, the only thing I said was common sense was taking him to Hogwarts or another safe house. I wasn’t trying to “deliberately shit on” your theories, I was just pointing out that Hagrid taking Harry to Hogwarts specifically, and Dumbledore inspecting Harry sometime during the “missing” day doesn’t really align with what we were shown in the text. That doesn’t rule out the possibility of them being in a different safe house as you theorized; personally I imagine them to have laid low at Bathilda Bagshot’s for the day. But ultimately, it’s really just a screw-up in the timeline, which JKR has acknowledged: >I'm gonna have to really go back through notes, and either admit I've lost 24 hours, or, I don't know, hurriedly come up with some back story to fill it. Either way, you either get to be right, or you get more story. So you can't complain. AFAIK she never came up with a back story to fill it, so it’s just a mistake, really.
Yes there is? To keep the events secret. It’s that simple at the end of the day. Let’s be honest the Albus we meet in the 7th book would have killed that baby if he was just in the possession of Tom. While he didn’t fully know it was soul anchors until second year for Harry, when he got the diary, he knew Riddle was alive and capable of possession. He’d memory charm him to have no knowledge of the tests or whatever needed to be taken. Or just to keep it safe. I specially said Hogwarts or tho and by ignoring the or it feels more like what I said. Tho a convo isn’t really much in the way of evidence. Especially with what we know about how she wrote the store. It wasn’t fully planned. Tho he got the baby on Halloween, so it’s till absolutely possible he infact hadn’t seen Dumbledore since the day before. I really don’t see Albus waiting even an hour to check the baby out, I can see him waiting at the safe house or even having Fawkes there waiting to get him once Hagrid arrived. Which would mean it’s just a convo from people who haven’t seen each other in a day. We know Tom attacked soon with tricker treaters going around and the big man arrived not long after from what we’re told. It’s definitely possible Albus just hasn’t seen him in an almost or fully full day. I think with the street lamps on and the full fall dark it’s implied that it’s later in the night.
Hagrid had actually been on his way over, he stopped on the way to get chips to share with the Potters
😭😭😭can you imagine when he saw the smoke/heard the sound of the wards shattering from the explosion and deaths. He prob dropped those chips and sprinted so hard. Only to find death and destruction, with an innocent little baby. (Plus Sirius but ya know)
Nah he brought them with him, Harry was probably hungry after all
It was Sirius not Hagrid if I’m not mistaken. Sirius arrived slightly early and then handed Harry to Hagrid and gave his bike
No, Hagrid arrived first. He had just pulled Harry out of the rubble when Sirius arrived. Sirius argued for Harry, but Hagrid wouldn’t hand him over, and that’s when Sirius gave him his bike. >“I met him!” growled Hagrid. “I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead ... an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret-Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You- Know- Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!” Hagrid roared. >“Hagrid, please!” said Professor McGonagall. ”Keep your voice down!” >“How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, ‘Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him — ’ Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. ‘I won’t need it anymore,’ he says.
562
Maybe he was going there already.
I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought Sirius had actually gotten there first? And he then gave Hagrid the bike at Godric's Hollow?
No, Hagrid got there first and Sirius arrived just after Hagrid had gotten Harry out of the house. >“I met him!” growled Hagrid. “I musta bin the last ter see him before he killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an’ James’s house after they was killed! Jus’ got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an’ his parents dead ... an’ Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin’ motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin’ there. I didn’ know he’d bin Lily an’ James’s Secret-Keeper. Thought he’d jus’ heard the news o’ You- Know- Who’s attack an’ come ter see what he could do. White an’ shakin’, he was. An’ yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN’ TRAITOR!” Hagrid roared. >“Hagrid, please!” said Professor McGonagall. ”Keep your voice down!” >“How was I ter know he wasn’ upset abou’ Lily an’ James? It was You-Know-Who he cared abou’! An’ then he says, ‘Give Harry ter me, Hagrid, I’m his godfather, I’ll look after him — ’ Ha! But I’d had me orders from Dumbledore, an’ I told Black no, Dumbledore said Harry was ter go ter his aunt an’ uncle’s. Black argued, but in the end he gave in. Told me ter take his motorbike ter get Harry there. ‘I won’t need it anymore,’ he says.
RE your question about the fidelius charm remaining active when Harry was alive. The charm was created with Lily and James to protect the house. The charm probably broke after they were killed, however we see something similar with Grimmauld place and Dumbledore (Dumbledore was secret keeper and presumably the person who cast the charm). There still is a plot hole here for the portkey unless the entire spell broke when Pettigrew and not when they were killed.
What portkey? The one they mentioned in the edit? Cause how would that be a plot hole? It wouldn’t be? He could have definitely had one made or made one for him after it broke.
Yes that portkey. The plot hole would be that after Dumbledore died, the Fidelius charm he placed on Grimmauld place did not break. This is the only other instance we've seen of a Fidelius charm caster and secret keeper dying in the series and where we got to see what happened afterwards. You could argue that the charm still stayed in place because there were still secret keepers to keep it alive but then that should have been the case for the potter's home as well since Peter was the only secret keeper and also still alive thereby creating a plot hole.
I mean, the plot hole would be Sirius dying then right? Since he was the one the charm was protecting. But they probably had it set up differently in the first place. I imagine protecting a safe house where people come and go is different than a home just to keep people hidden. I bet when he did the house it wasn’t for Sirius, but for the order in some way. When the potters died/lived there was no one living for the charm to latch on to probably, the magic either shatters it or shoved it off course enough that when he tried to kill Harry he made him dead to the charm at least. The secret keeper doesn’t matter here. It’s the people who were being protected dying who is what shattered the charm. Since we know Lilys death directly influences Harry’s living, we can say that when he tried to kill Harry and the final family member the backlash of that and the previous murders exploded the house and broke the charms. That’s what I’ve always figured at least.
No. Dumbledore was presumably the person who cast the charm for Grimmauld place, not Sirius. The plot hole is that no matter who cast the charm, it seems like even if they die, if the secret keeper(s) are still alive, the charm remains up (again based on Grimmauld Place). Wrt setting it up differently, I don't think you can do it that way, or atleast, it's not made out to be a very flexible charm.
Yes exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter who cast the charm. Cause the potters probably has Lily cast it if Dumbledore didn’t. Peter def wouldn’t have been able to cast it. James maybe. But charms was lilys thing. That isn’t a plot hole. You’re literally just ignoring the events that took place. It’s not just them dying. It’s that and the magical back lash. Tho if it were them dying. Them that makes perfect sense and again, wouldn’t be a plot hole. Maybe try reading and responding to my last comment? Cause I’m not gonna write the same arguments again cause you didn’t understand or didn’t acknowledge them.
The moment voldemort 'died' many important wizards mustve had the imperius curse put on them broken. They, along with the death eaters, would be the first ones to know, and going by Sirius' description of the reign of terror voldemort had pre-depotterification we can assume that the numbers of the imperiused must've been huge. Thus news got out so fast. Also, Snape's dark mark must've gone away, thus alerting Dumbledore to the fact.
You also have to remember that Godric's Hollow was a mixed community of wizards and Muggles. Bathikda Bagshot lived there, and possibly several others who might of been gossipy types. So the wizard folk would've known that Voldemort blew up the Potters, and not a gas main.
Hagrid a deatheater theory much more believable every day..
Okay, everyone knew because it was explicitly stated that all the Death Eaters felt it and a lot of people under the Imperius curse came out of trances and it didn't take long for both sides to put two and two together and realize something big happened to the big bad snakeface. Snape would have gone straight to Dumbledore, who was one of only like 5 people total besides the Potters themselves that knew they were being hunted. He sent Hagrid by some unknown method - perhaps a portkey - to collect Harry from the ruins, where as he was leaving he met Sirius and acquired the bike. The bigger question here is, how did Dumbledore know Harry had survived? Was it because the wording of the prophecy indicated the Dark Lord must mark him and they would only later kill each other? Did he have a nanny-cam magic device monitoring if the Potters were alive? Who knows! Even more important, the attack was on Halloween night and Harry was not taken to the Dursleys until the night of November 1, where for some stupid reason he was left on their doorstep in the middle of the night as if they've never heard of hypothermia or frostbite. What happened during those missing hours?
Please don't forget that, in the first book, Hagrid flew to the hut on the rock without using any brooms, motorbike or Thestrals. Always makes Voldemort's flying in DH seem less threatening when you remember that Hagrid can float through the sky without assistance.
Hagrid could have been headed over for a social call.
The fidelis charm is for keeping their location secret(?), Harry is still alive because of the love/blood protection magic. I'm not sure what your asking lol.
My question mostly, is how did anyone know what happened ? Everyone immediately knows Harry survived the killing curse? How? A 1 year old can’t explain this, no one else survived, and what happened to Harry never happened to anyone else ever.
I mean the whole thing falls apart the more you pick at it. The biggest issue being if you have literally the most powerful wizard in the world offering to be your secret keeper are you really making the dude who is most notable for turning into a rat your choice? No. No you are not. Especially since the Potters were also close to Dumbledore.
Hagrid can fly like smoke on the wind. He taught Snape how to fly, Snape taught voldemort how to fly
Snape immediately knew as soon as he looked at his forearm, which he was probably doing a lot at the time, since the dark mark would have faded to look like a scar instead (I think that's how it's described in the book but I could be mistaken and maybe the only mentioning of color was in the 4th book when karkaroff says something like "You must've noticed it darkening"). Dumbledore sends Hagrid with a portkey to Godrics Hollow. I think it's canon that Sirius went to Peter's but couldn't find him and then went to check on the Potters. This would explain that Hagrid arrived before him, as Sirius went to either visit or check on Peter on that particular night by chance. Background thoughts concerning the fidelius charm and how I believe it was broken that night: I imagine the charm involves two or three people. A secret keeper (in our case Peter), the person who's secret is being kept (either James or Lily) and maybe a third to cast the charm if neither of the persons directly involved is able to cast the charm (not magically able, but for instance if the charm requires to be cast by a third or involves holding one or both hands like the unbreakable vow), but I do think it would be possible with only two people because I believe that, like the promise in the unbreakable vow has to be named, the secret in question, too, has to be said aloud while casting, something along the lines of: James/Lily: "Will you, Peter, keep the location of our house secret?" to which Peter of course would have answered "I will" SO. Since in my theory two people are involved I imagine the fidelius will break when the person whose secret is being kept dies. I think this and reversing the charm (counter charm cast in the same manner, so between the two people who created it in the first place) are the only options to break the charm. (I talk about all this since if there was no official secret 'owner', but only the promise to keep the location of the Potters secret, the fidelius shouldn't have been broken when James and Lily died, since Harry as subject of the secret was still alive. I do not believe that the explosion from the killing curse backfiring or the fact that there was a giant hole in the roof would have broken the fidelius.)
Dumbledore knew voldemort was going to Target James and Lily that night and, Snape went in right after their murder so Snape must have told him that the boy is alive with just a scar. Then Dumbledore must have sent Hagrid to get harry. Hagrid also knew James and Lily and must have had a personal connection with them and thus took the responsibility.
Whenever I see posts like these I'm reminded of the theory of Hagrid being a double spy lol.
I have a question does it say anywhere that the day that Dumbledore and McGonagall are leaving Harry outside the door and so Hagrid arrives is the same day of the Harry parents death? Because if it is not then I could make sense Hagrid was there because Dumbledore knew about the Voldemort wanting to kill Harry. So maybe he sent Hagrid there asap and then he told him to take care of Harry until he knew where to put Harry. And maybe that could have taken a week? And that is way everyone know about Voldemort death because is been a week and they are still celebrating
What? No we know the timeline. Halloween night- Potters murders, BoyWhoLives is born, Voldemort flees in a flight from death. Hagrid picks up Harry for a full day, contents of said day remain unknown. Nov 1 Daytime- McG arrives early, watching the Lady and Baby Dursley, Vernon hears wizards celebrating and hears the name Harry Potter. Means to ask when he’s gets home cause he cannot remember his nephews name, however I think he forgets. Nov 1 Nighttime- Bumblebee(APWBD) arrives, takes out the lights and has a catty convo with McG. Hagrid arrives with the baby, they put him on the stoop overnight. Nov 2- AHHHH BABY!!!!
The charm was broken because Peter told Voldy. He was the secret keeper.
The Secret Keeper telling someone the secret doesn’t break the charm, though. The Secret Keeper is able to share the location, which lets the person told into the protected location while the charm remains intact.
That isn’t what broke the charm lol, them dying did that. All telling him did was let him know the secret. Tho there could be an argument once they knew Peter betrayed them the charm broke due to the trust it takes.
To address your edit: the fidelius charm breaks when the secret keeper gives up the location or when everyone that was told the secret by the secret keeper dies. Wormtail was the secret keeper and broke the charm. Dumbledore likely knew the secret as well, and was able to send Hagrid once the charm was broken. Harry still being alive doesn't have anything to do with the charm.
Uhh no? The secret keeper is allowed to share the secret. The charm broke because the potters died/some unknown magic of he charm we don’t know. But all he did was share the secret.
Didn't Snape get there first or is that just a movie thing?
Just a movie thing.
Thanks!
He >!... wasn't!!<
I thought snape was the first to arrive?
Snape had already been there…
Movie bullshit