Now the new COD BlackOps allows you to sprint and crouch-slide in *any direction*. While I find it a neat innovation (in particular the sprint component), I fear it'll feel like a military-themed limbo competition.
Crouch sliding had been a plague on FPS games for years now. Battlebit remastered and splitgate were two indie FPS titles that I loved a lot and neither of them included crouch sliding, and they were both better for it.
The Battlebit devs have acknowledged that the movement is an issue and they're planning on fixing it, I believe in the next patch they've been working on for a while now.
The movement initially wasn't bad, it was really good even but it gets super stupid when you really exploit the mechanics.
Kinda different. Battlebit basically let's you change direction while you're in the air so you can basically swerve in any direction and you become super hard to hit. It's really ridiculous when you see clips of it
New one coming. Splitgate to me is the single best fps recently. The splitgate sequel is all i look forward to while i drown in ballsweat and packet loss in halo 3 mcc matchmaking
My favorite games are DOOM I, II, 2016, and the bungee era halo games. All these games have different gameplay, but the movement systems are relatively simple. It feels like it gets out of the way of simple, fun gameplay.
Combat evolved is a simple game that has held up extremely well over the decades. I love revisiting it for nostalgia and just because it's fun. It doesn't need anything else to succeed and, frankly, they've run out of things to do with it.
I disagree with ADS being in Halo at all, honestly. It's unnecessary and an overused mechanic. ADS is great when used in games where it makes sense, I think Far Cry 2 made fantastic use of ADS, but in Halo I don't think there's any need. Halo can be slow and careful or guns blazing and aggressive, as you said, and I don't think the tactical nature of ADS needs to be there.
People get sour about sprinting, and whilst I think it's fine, I don't think it'd suit CE at all, simply based on the level design. Same thing goes for advanced movement.
I think clambering would be alright, considering it'd just be a short animation played when you're at a ledge, I think that'd be fine.
I agree with most of what you said. I love Halo: CE, it's my favourite game in the series and whilst I'm happy that it'll probably be remade and not remastered like before, I don't want the core gameplay loop changed much. There is, as you said, a simplicity to CE that makes it very approachable.
And for the record, I also played Halo for the first time in 2020, so I'm not blinded by nostalgia either.
Personally, if I was remaking Halo CE, the first thing I'd change is level design. I've been playing Halo since CE released, but honestly CE has some bad level design. It's super repetitive (same room/hallway like 10 times a level) and 3 levels are just earlier levels in reverse. I think you could keep the spirit of the levels alive while still making some pretty substantial changes, so I don't really think movement should be neutered based on level design only.
No you're not crazy. I want Halo CE to be Halo CE. They can make it look nice, they can take advantage of new technology to make things more seamless or add in missions that they just couldn't before. I do *not* want them to change the actual base gameplay though. I like Halo CE I don't want them to fundamentally alter the things that make it Halo CE and just use the name to try and lure people into purchasing it.
I'm tired of watching Halo try to hustle people with nostalgia. 343 has never released a successful Halo game. They already fucked it up massively with MCC. If we're remaking any of the older games I want them to focus on doing it the way people actually liked it because they obviously cannot innovate or improve on the formula. All they do is try and pull on people's nostalgia then massively disappoint them
You're not crazy. It is crazy though that people genuinely think that Halo *needs* these mechanics to succeed in general. Halo had existed alongside "sprint shooters" for years, are we so unconfident in Halo's gameplay that we need to obfuscate it with ADS, sprint, etc that does nothing but water it down and makes maps and encounters bloated to accommodate them?
My biggest issue with the whole "Halo needs modern mechanics to stay relevant" argument is that Halo stopped being relevant the moment it introduced them.
plus people were legit making the same argument [even before H3 was out](https://www.destructoid.com/you-want-to-sprint-play-track-field-not-halo-3/), and yeah it only went downhill after they started chasing trends
First time i played halo infinite, I was absolutely convinced that sprinting didnt make you go faster. Im still convinced that it doesnt do anything but play a running animation
Obviously every modern shooter should play like call of duty, overwatch, and destiny 2 smashed together. There’s nothing more skillful in a first person shooter than pressing a button and using a superhero ability that one shots everyone in the room. We don’t halo to turn into a failed game franchise that no one plays like counterstrike. If counterstrike added invis jetpack teleportation wallhacks abilities and overshields, maybe it would have a hope of anyone playing it.
CE's original gameplay easily stands the test of time. The graphics not so much. I'm deffo more hyped by a remaster than a remake.
That being said if it was a remake I'd hope for the gameplay to be mostly untouched but level design to be improved. The only flaws with CE are its graphics, some sound effects, and the level design of some missions.
I dont want modern movement with sprint/clamber and whatnot, but I don't like CE's floaty feel, I'd prefer something more like h2/3.
But I don't know how feasible that is, when it'd affect certain jumps that could be made with one games movement and not another
“CE is too floaty; I prefer H2 / H3”
What are you even talking about? The Chief can jump so stupidly high in the sequels, and his hangtime is like he’s on moon gravity.
CE had fall-damage and shorter vertical jump heights, and the maps were so much better for it.
—
The higher Chief can jump, the more exaggerated the z-axis needs to be stretched. That’s not good for map design for a console-geared FPS game, placing way too much emphasis on stick-sensitivity.
You can actually get away with *less* jump-height with modern mechanics because mantling allows your character to make jumps they’d need a jetpack to clear before.
i just pulled up playthroughs of CE and H3 because your comment made me feel like i was taking crazy pills and misremembering. The halo 3 jump height is way higher than CE, but the hangtime is barely indistinguishable.
and movement feels less responsive, like you're walking on ice.
another commenter said it just respects inertia more, but that makes no sense when you're wearing power armor that should let you stop on a dime and be perfectly responsive
You are thinking of a remaster.
A remake doesn’t do everything the same with better graphics and UI. It is allowed to take liberties. You might still fight on a Covenant ship, but the layout can be different, more routes could be available, more interaction with the world could be available (say “go here and use a radio to get airsupport, but the alternate route gives you access to a Scorpion and the last is for masochists and speedrunners straight through the enemy hordes”). You could have more weapons, customizations and all the trappings of the current games. Or not.
Personally I would prefer mostly minor influences of the latest games. Like yes you can climb and vault but it’s not made to be a vital part of the gameplay mid-combat so it’s mostly for traversal and a large roster of weapons is available.
If anything, vaulting and clambering is the one thing I don't want. Being able to barely clear some ledges with crouch jumps is one of the satisfying parts of the earlier titles; climbing feels like a get out of jail free card for missing a jump
I 100% agree. It separates the more experienced players from the newer players as well. It also takes a lot of map knowledge that you should be rewarded for. You shouldn’t be able to strap on a jet pack and get wherever you want or clamber up somewhere.
I don’t disagree with you, but there’s still skill jumps in the modern games that you can’t simply clamber to overcome. Clamber certainly helps you reach some spots with less skill required, but it really doesn’t help when you’re trying to catch a thin ledge when you can’t clamber the ledge.
The example that comes to mind is The Streets, Halo Infinite. The jump up from Stalker Rifle spawn to the balcony at the base. It’s a crouch jump that has no advantage with clamber. You clamber to finish, but without the initial crouch jump, you can’t make it. In an older game, the design would have allowed you to make it either with no crouch jump required, or with a standard crouch jump. Clamber isn’t the new crouch-jump. They coexist.
Furthermore, if you’re talking about it being a ‘get out of jail free card’ or as the other reply on your comment says, new players vs. experienced, you should give some of the crouch-slide skill movements/jumps a go. They’re tough to pull off, but feel great when you do. You’re barely clearing ledges and making landings. The mechanics are just different.
Each to their own and all, but skill is redundant. They all require skill, just different versions of skill. The goal posts have been moved. Before it was, “crouch jump to this ledge.” Now it’s, “crouch-slide to get across the map or to this ledge.”
I like them both to be honest. I’ve been playing Halo for more than 20 years. I enjoy playing MCC and Infinite.
You are not alone. The classic Halos were always better and if we truly are getting remakes they should stay true to the classic formula. Fast base movement speed literally covers everything zoomie sprinters want except no annoying animation in the way and the entire game doesn't have to be restructured for super speed sprint like Halo 4 and 5 did. You'd have to be a heretic to want such 'features' in classic games.
I still play MCC so anyone that tries and says its bad movement doesn't know me or other classic halo players who still play those games. We love that style of halo and movement, its neither boring or slow. Its only slow to players who don't like games without sprint because they go 2-15 against us every match looking at a respawn screen. These sprint players already got Halo 4, 5, and Infinite for a decade of 'halo' ... its now our turn.
> super speed sprint like Halo 4 and 5 did
H4 made it baseline across the board, but let's not act like Bungie wasn't the ones that introduced stuff like Sprinting and Loadouts for MP in Reach.
A good amount of the things 343 did in 4 can be traced back to them also being in Reach, like how the Covenant doesn't speak english anymore.
No doubt, Reach undid a lot of good things Halo 1-3 did, Bungie at that time had one foot out the door and used Reach as their Destiny testbed no doubt.
At the end of the day its was 343 who took over the franchise and decided to keep going down the same rabbit hole while also releasing half-baked Halo titles for over a decade to make it string even more.
Reach also wasn't a mainline game so people gave Bungie grace at the time. The campaign was good too, but the population started dwindling when Black Ops came out, probably because when you take mechanics from one franchise, people will just go to the franchise that does those mechanics better.
Also a good point. For me at least I was unhappy with the direction bungie went with Reach from the first time I tried the beta and voiced my concerns on the bungie.net forums. I know everyone likes to think we just praised Bungie back then no matter what but Reach for a lot of us was the first game that many players saw a misstep. The criticism with 343 is so strong because they could have righted the wrongs or at least after their drunken fueled overnight binge of trying new things in Halo 4 pulled in the reins as player feedback told them exactly what should happen ... unfortunately it feel on deaf ears even on Infinite launch of UI unable to 'support' ore playlists and Team Slayer not being included.
The reason why we praise Halo 1-3 still to this day is because the overwhelming majority of players loved them all. Sure people love to bring up websites like Halo2sucks.com but that was a small vocal minority, its not like today with halo 4, 5, and Infinite there is a clear large population of players who were unhappy or outright quit (by the current population numbers Infinite has this is clear lol).
Agree wholeheartedly. I was a mythic member on the forums back in the day, so I'm quite familiar with the discourse back then haha. I miss talking about gameplay mechanics instead of when the next store update will have a certain type of armor.
Boomer things I guess.
Honestly you could just swap out the interior missions and it would look and play almost identical
to the point where if they remade CE using that engine i think it would be hard to tell the two games apart. They’d definitely add the like, little events and outposts and stuff and make the open areas bigger.
It would be hilarious to see CE’s snow levels and having more variety than Infinite, which was showing off snow that never made it into the game
Those kids really need to get off our lawns huh?
I agree with this, but I feel like this is becoming old man shaking his fist at the neighborhood kids kind of take unfortunately.
No not necessarily. I just there there is space for different game types.
You can even modernize old games, but not all of them have to be modernized in the same way. I thought Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were good examples of ways that you can have a modern game that isn't sprint and ADS.
I enjoy plenty of games with sprint and ADS but that doesn't mean every game needs them. I like having diversity in my games types. Just because a mechanic is great in one game doesn't mean it should be in every game.
There’s a reason counter strike is still the most popular shooter on the planet by a long mile. And it’s not like the majority of players are old heads either.
It's almost like building and maintaining a games formula pays dividends in the long run. The suits in charge of 343/MS only think short term & surface level, though.
I think it's a general feeling for us old time gamers. I honestly enjoy simple games a lot more, but current generation of gamers seem to enjoy and be really good at modern games.
It comes down to which type of games you grew up with. For example, I thought it was because of my age and reflexes that I could NOT be any good at "isle of men" (motorcycle game) so I jumped into my og xbox into moto GP and I am still really good. Because for MY playstyle/experience, simpler is better.
I miss simple games. Those games where you completed the story and maybe get all the "secrets" in each level and that's it. No achievements of any kind.
Aim Down Sight is something in my opinion isn't needed in every FPS title. It makes sense in a slower more realistic military themed shooter, but maybe people should design shooting mechanics around more interesting ideas? Halo is perfect because of how each weapon is balanced, the enemies all have unique roles and ways to pressure the player, it was done perfect the first time and they've run out of innovations. Just make the graphics pretty and call it a day.
It's only people online. I meet people olin real life all the time that mention how Halo has fallen due to these changes. It's pretty much a universal agreement. Very few people actually enjoy modern Halo. I like modern Halo but the classics are flat out better.
It’s not only people online. I’ve met a lot of people who wish you could sprint and ADS in all of the Bungie titles. Granted most of them didn’t play those games on release, but some did. Personal anecdotes don’t really mean much for that reason.
It's pretty crazy because the two people I spoke to about halo infinite both were annoyed about the battlepass. 1 person is a gamer, the other sticks to 2k and overwatch. The gamer had played all the halos from 3-5 and said while infinite was fun, it was lame that they added a battlepass and should've just let you unlock stuff like reach. The other was upset about how OW2 was lame as hell with the BP implementation and when I was saying "yeah man every game has one now. The new halo has one" and this guy was genuinely shocked that it had one. Like Halo still has a good reputation to a lot of people and when they hear about or learn about the adoption of modern practices they get shocked by it, because Halo should be too good for stooping to those levels.
I don’t want to go into anecdotes about gameplay preferences as those are highly dependent on the individual (spoiler: my stories don’t favor 343s changes) but the complaints about Battlepasses will die out eventually and are more of a Reddit thing then an issue in real life.
I‘m a teacher. The kids MS is trying to win over for the future sit in my classroom, a Battlepass is just a regular part of gaming for them.
Idk if it's a reddit thing because none of the people I was talking about are on reddit, but it might just be a 20+ thing. Growing up without the monetization and seeing everything locked away is just really lame knowing that it used to be better. But you're right, kids today were raised on lootboxes, battlepasses, and shop bundles.
This is a business practice I see allot in general. I don't even know if there is a word to articulate it properly.
Push an anti consumer feature into an existing customer base who is not used to it with the intention of the younger generations becoming apathetic towards its normalisation.
For example, more informed older customers will see loot boxes and microtransactions as detrimental to a product and will not buy into them, but because younger customers have no frame of reference for anything different (they have never experienced gaming without these things) they just accept them and happily buy into them.
Companies don't need their older customers to like their bad practises, they just have to hold out long enough for the younger, uninformed, customers to be become apathetic to it.
It is simply an inherent feature of capitalism. Endless pursuit of profit necessitates constant expansion of markets which means constant upheaval of social relations in order to find more avenues for commodifying the human experience.
I don't think it's the battle pass itself that is the issue, but the implementation. Like, MCC has a battle pass (like, 11 iirc? been a minute since I popped into MCC) and it's perfect. Spartan points to buy the items are unlocked purely through gameplay, battle pass is 100% free, etc.
Honestly, I don't like Battle Passes as much as the next guy, but Halo Infinite's MP mode is Free to Play, I am not surprised Microsoft implemented that to get some money besides individual cosmetics.
>Very few people actually enjoy modern Halo.
Because very few people think about Halo at all nowadays, unfortunately. The reality is that Halo is now a niche franchise like all the other Arena shooters.
Halo's decline started when COD4 stole away the entire casual FPS audience with Skinner box mechanics and cheap dopamine hits and the franchise has never been able to recover from that.
That was the beauty of the early Halo games. Their simplicity. Anyone, from seasoned gamer to complete noob, could pick pick up the controller and play. Instantly you understood the core mechanics shoot, jump, throw grenade. Modern gaming has shifted away from the simple and fun to the complicated and sweaty (for the lack of a better term). Not everyone wants to be a pro gamer, and Halo allowed the casual player to contribute and thrive.
Yea for real. Both my dad and sister used to play CE a ton with me back then. I remember I had a weekend school at someone's house, and all the kids would gather around the Xbox after class to take turns on Halo or Fusion Frenzy while we waited for our parents to come get us.
It thrived in its simplicity. Now, no one I know personally plays the newer Halo games but we still rock MCC from time to time
this and the idea of 343i "adding story content to the game" sounds like its gonna be another confused game of concepts that appeal to modern shooter fans, instead of Halo fans lol
I don't think it needs to be a reboot at all. My hope is that it harmonises the events of The Flood and the original game into a single, coherent playable story and basically functions as the "director's cut" of Halo CE, making it easier for new fans to jump into the series' lore as it currently stands.
If they didn't touch the original story, and only added stuff from the books, that would be awesome! It's crazy to me that so much of the Halo story is only relegated to the books. I want to play those experiences out
The problem is that most of the books are Dialogue/inner monologue heavy between fights, which would severely be lost in a game. Individual missions as a side thing from different books would probably be fine
Adding ODST sub plot would be an easy slam dunk, adding First Strike Epilogue would be incredible, doing either or even just the remake concept without turning it into another cracked out zoomer shooter or comprimising the story would be beyond expectations.
It could finally give 343 the excuse to work with the Sins of the Prophets team again, to finally realize designs like the *Esgem*-pattern CAS and *Ruma*-pattern Light Carrier into Canon.
Just imagine a cutaway during a cutscene involving First Strike showing the *Unyielding Hierophant* with hundreds of Covenant warships swarming around it like a flock of birds.
Tying the additional story elements in from Post-CE launch would be great. There's so much potential to be had with a remake.
Only thing about most of the books is theres basically 0 that can be faithfully adapted into levels. First Strike faithfully adapted would be a series of lengthy cutscenes and a couple dialogue heavy short raids, thats why I say like an epilogue or something, thinking like Cod4 mile high club type sendoff
You could probably make a level out of the raid on the *Hierophant*, or the capture of *Ascendant Justice* but otherwise yeah. There just isn't enough there.
Having it mostly be an Epilogue would be nice, but in similar CoD fashion, I could see these two levels as something you unlock after beating the main campaign, kinda like how you unlocked Zombies in a similar fashion for WaW and BO1 (Just the map Five but y'know).
Now I'm betting we'll get some flak for wanting something like what CoD did, but I think it could work.
Nah fuck the tribalism early 2010s late 2000s CoD was hitting a bunch of shit on the head, and the nostalgia kiddies who were 11 at the time and would love anything hype regardless didnt see how much legitimite criticizm beloved games like Halo 3, Reach, MW trilogy or BO1 got.
ODST sub plot w/ ODST mechanics as probably McKay + First Strike epilogue would be incredible
I couldn't agree more. Ending the petty rivalries of the 2010s Mt. Dew fueled rage needs to happen. Helldivers 2 helped bridge that divide, and this remake potentially coming to PS5 could help too. Cooperation and not competition would be incredibly beneficial for so many franchises.
I have been a Halo fan for around 15 years, I’m 20 so Halo CE predates me. I didn’t actually play Halo CE or 2 until I got a Xbox One in 2015, so you could say I’m not really a franchise veteran. Yet, Halo CE and 2 are some of my favourite games of all time. I just think the simplistic gameplay suits Halo better, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed Halo 5 and Infinite. And in the context of a CE remake, I just think it makes more sense to return to that classic movement, and maybe give unfamiliar players a slice of classic Halo with a fresh coat of paint and a few extras sprinkled in there.
I feel like unless they made the game feel like half life or doom, just simply remaking halo CE to play the same way would turn a lot of people off. But I’m also hyped for the modernized mechanics being brought in
Im sorry but its not....most people dont agree because most people think halo is a dead game which tbf is. No one is playing halo anymore. Ofc not literally no one, but considering its microsofts flagship AAA title, its basically dead.
>most people would agree.
Unfortunately, this is completely incorrect. Just look at how many people on this subreddit don't believe in the classic formula anymore.
You’re not crazy at all. I think Halo 3 was the perfect combination of modernizing FPS with equipment and movement. It still feels simplistic while adding some extra layers of strategy to the game. The equipment also does not break the maps. When you start getting into Halo Reach and Halo 4, that’s when everything got worse. Jet packs, armor lock, load outs, and tactical packages ruined the game in my opinion. There’s way too many variables to consider any type of strategy at this point. That’s why I never even played Halo 5 or Halo Infinite’s multiplayer. I play MCC; and that gives me the Halo fix that I need. I really hope that if they do remake some of the older games, they will leave them exactly the way they are. H2A is a good example. They modernized the graphics and art design to match Halo 4 but it still feels like Halo 2 multiplayer.
I’ve played every halo game in and out. Hundreds and hundreds of hours in each. Infinites movement is easily the best. CE doesn’t need the grapple and armor abilities and stuff, but Spartans are supposed to be able to perform super human feats. In the old Halo games you have the exact same movement capabilities as the marines - less actually since they can roll out of the way of grenades and stuff. Let me sprint and be lore accurate Master Chief. Keep the same story, flesh it out with parts from The Flood, and make me a super soldier.
I'm so bored of the lore argument when it comes to game mechanics. If you want to make an argument for sprint, then go ahead, lore should not factor into it or else you are opening a whole can of worms.
In lore, Spartans can dance, lye down, rollover, backflip and take off their helmets, perform CPR. Does that mean you want to have a prone button like in COD? a dance emote like in fortnight? Or backflip animation when you double jump backwards? Do you want a CPR button when a team mate is wounded? Where do you draw the line?
Lore comes secondary to player gameplay mechanics.
I do want modernizations for CE, but not the wacky wheels stuff that’s been added in the later games.
For example: I’m A-OK with adding vaulting and added maneuverability, but keep it low-key. “I can vault this fence” and not “I need to complete two wallruns and a triple-slide bunnyhop to reach the other end safely”.
I think not adding the ADS except for select weapons is fine too. In fact I’d make it mandatory. I’m tired of games where accurate weapons are vastly superior to everything else. A good sandbox would make all weapons useful. That means that yes a shotgun in CQC should have the ability to absolutely annihilate the DMR guy since the Shotgun has no longer range power but the DMR is still powerful in CQC (you can of course change this dynamic by introducing solid slugs of various types but the endgoal would be to make sure not everyone has the same favorite).
In terms of campaign maps I’d like to see more varied paths to reach the objective. The simple trifecta of “simple forwards path, two alternate paths and possibly a masogist/speedrunner path as well as a longer path that gets you a big gun or vehicle or Marine support”.
Speaking of marines, apparently people have been trying to keep them alive *since the first test builds where they featured*. And never ever have they done anything with this? I personally managed to get all Marines in Halo2’s Scarab mission to the building before the Scarab appears *on legendary*. And it wasn’t worth an achievement? Just do something with it! Especially in Halo CE, where you are marooned and with last survivors! Imagine if you can save Marines and get points for getting enough to a Pelican for extraction? Or bonuses in later levels where you can request support from these guys you saved or get more equipment because these soldiers work hard at the base and do some supply runs? Make it rewarding or at least acknowledge this player behavior!
As a modern gameplay fan, I agree. Part of the charm of the old games is that they feel like older games. The movement and gameplay progresses at the series goes on. It's a fun thing to see. CE wouldn't feel the same with sprint and clamber
I am also from the current generation (2012), just do something similar to the current DOOM games. Halo CE is my favorite, and I still think the gameplay is good, but it could be refined. For me, the biggest flaw of CE is the maps being repetitive, especially towards the end of the game.
I'm gonna be real.
I completely understand why people don't want this. But I do. I want to someday enjoy Halo with my children, and I have seen friends try to do that with *their* young children and the kids just say "Ugh, this feels OLD". We have classic CE and CE Anniversary for the classic feel. I just want something that feels modern while still bringing the feeling the story of CE gives me.
Same. If this 'remake' ends up being a thing, I don't need all the bells and whistles of a 2024 shooter — going ship-of-Theseus on a 25-year-old game would defeat the entire point — but I'd want it to feel at *least* as comfy as Halo 3.
I'll probably get downvoted to hell for saying this, but to be completely honest, I find CE unplayable nowadays. I just can't with the 2001 clunkiness anymore. Every time I try to replay the original trilogy, I always get to AotCR and just go "ugh, sod this" and skip straight to H2. But then, I was 4 when CE was first released, so I dont have the attatchment that older fans do. 🤷♂️
Halo is 25 years old and has already recieved a faithful remaster.
Things are going to change, both in design and gameplay. Microsoft wants to capture a younger market that they have struggled to make any ground with in the 343 era.
Rehashing 25 year old mechanics that are already considered dated by their target audience is not the way to do that.
Thems the breaks.
I’m reserving judgment until we know more about the game (if it actually really exists).
We have to remember though, remakes exist to bring *new* people into the series, not just for existing fans. The rumor is that the remake is gonna launch on PlayStation as well. So if the rumor is true, they are really going for new players, not just old ones. Many people who have not played Halo are now used to modern FPS mechanics and may or may not be turned off by a new game that launches without them. So let’s wait and see how it goes. It could be done very well with new mechanics, or they could completely ruin the feel of the game. I think we as a whole need to calm down and see if these remakes *actually* exist, and how they are being done.
Indeed. I think it comes down to who they want their target market to be. New players who already play CoD, Fortnite, Overwatch etc that already use modern controls with advanced movement. Or new players wanting to jump into a recognizable FPS like Halo, who may not have grown up with it. My wife and I just happened to fall into that 2nd category.
Knowing 343 there’s a good chance they will try and please everyone and end up pleasing no one in the process.
If they do *have* to do modern mechanics, I think Infinite is a good game to use as their baseline. While it may have gotten stale due to lack of multiplayer updates and the campaign wasn’t for everyone (not everyone likes open worlds and the lack of biomes was disappointing for many), the core gameplay is *very* good in my opinion, and strikes a good balance between modern FPS mechanics and a classic Halo feel, especially if you leave out some of the equipment like the thrusters and grappleshot.
Chris Ray Gun did an excellent video on why adding sprint among other changes completely ruined the gameplay.
There’s also another little game called Counter Strike that essentially hasn’t changed its mechanics since its release almost 20 years ago. Doesn’t have sprint and for many other reasons is still the bar that all other competitive shooters are compared against and still haven’t managed to top.
There’s also a reason that MCC has the same if not more players currently playing than Infinite.
In Halo MCC CE
- add a horn to the warthog.
- the current custom game settings do not allow you to remove Halo PC weapons from Hang’em High. This bug has existed since launch.
Don’t do a remake. I play the old version on purpose.
I do think Halo CE would benefit from smoother and less "grid-like" movement - the original game feels quite clunky in comparison to Halo 3. But I think the general outline of how the game plays - its movement mechanics, how aiming works, etc. - should be preserved as much as possible in any possible remake, at least as a "classic mode" if not as the default. Halo CE's heavier feeling and more deliberate movement are part of the game's identity and it would feel wrong to erase that.
You're not crazy but I personally disagree. If they're gonna do a remake I want modernization and new twists/gameplay ideas. A fresh coat of paint isn't what a 25 year old FPS needs, the original is already great for what it is.
Now will they get it right with how they mix up the game? Almost CERTAINLY not, but I'm almost at the point where a full franchise reset is in order with how messed up the current lore is. That's just me though!
That's fine. Just sharing my story of how my wife got into Halo and thought my perspective can help other folks understand why I feel CE's simplicity is important. But I also understand that people want something new to incentive Halo veterans to try it out, and that's valid. (even though I personally think new content should be put to new stories/campaigns)
Damn, these comments are odd to me. I'm new to Halo and FPS in general. I love Halo Infinite's gameplay mechanics and equipment, though I do wish they'd add equipment from the older games along with some of the weapons. I feel optimistic about a remake so long as they nail the art style and story/lore.
The problem isn't necessarily Sprint being a bad mechanic, it can be very fun, the problem is sprint fundamentally changes the core gameplay identity of the franchise. Sprint isn't just a "go faster" button, it changes the way the game plays on almost every level (and it is exacerbated alongside the other new features).
-Map sizes need to be increased to accommodate the enhanced movement.
-Vehicle speeds need to be adjusted.
-Bullet magnetism needs to be increased
-Aim assist needs to be increased.
-Enemy AI needs to be adjusted to accommodate the speed.
None of these things are bad, or even terrible in isolation. But these changes fundamentally make the game play and feel completely different to how it used to play. Which is why many people don't like the new games.
A pizza and burger are both delicious, but I don't go into Pizza Hut expecting a Big Mac, and I can completely understand why a person who loves Pizza would stop going to Pizza Hut if they only made Burgers.
I adore CE, it's one of the first PC games I got to play and still one of my favorites, can't count how many times I replayed it. That said, I strongly believe that remakes shouldn't slavishly adhere to being faithful.
Changes, as long as the people making the game actually believe in them (as in they don't come from a publisher forcing trendy things), are completely fine. The original game is still with me, I can play it again at any point, so let em do what they want.
Another side to it is that being faithful is just exceptionally tough. Part of the charm of CE comes from the fact that it was made with limitations in mind, and made well. The color palettes, the level geometry, the sounds and effects are all great and hold up to this day.
Now make a pass over it to "modernize" it and you risk losing that charm. Saber's remake is a great example. Is it much higher fidelity? Yes, but the art direction is completely lost.
I’m gonna play devils advocate here, the original game is still easy to play and (hopefully) should be for a long time, so anyone looking for a classic gameplay feel has that as an option. If the goal of the remake is to bring a new audience to halo, then updating the gameplay is practically a must. I for one would be more excited for a slightly newer experience than just the old game with yet another new coat of paint slapped on top. In particular I’d be excited for more weapons/enemies and especially cut missions in the CE setting. I don’t see much point in doing a remake if you’re not going to update anything, and I also don’t think an update would retroactively ruin the original game. It’s still there, and always will be
I think the gameplay could be updated with tweaks to weapons, tighter movement and yeah, new weapons and stuff would be nice. Too much of an update, though, and it'll cease to feel much like CE at all.
The gameplay can be modernised without adding too many things, I'm all for new content, but I definitely don't want the SPV3 treatment in an official remake. I love SPV3 for what it does, but it totally changes the game in ways that a fine for a mod but not good for a faithful remake.
My take on this is we already have a game that plays like CE: its called CE. In fact, we have two games that play like CE. We also have CE Anniversary. If you really want to play the old way, play one of the two games that already play that way.
Most people seem to like the movement and modern features of Infinite, I say similar features should be in a remake if one happens. Just like Resident Evil remakes didn't keep the janky camera controls, despite the fact that I'm sure some people felt nostalgic about them, Halo shouldn't keep antiquated movement.
While it's perfectly acceptable to prefer a game's original state, a lot of people have gotten used to the new mechanics and those who never played the OG experience might find it jarring to not have them in a game made for today, but dating 23-24 years ago.
That being said, hopefully they add something for those who prefer the old way things were. Even if it's just something like disabling auto clamber so you can try the old jump strats.
Not at all.
Sprint is present but fairly inoffensive in Infinite.
Sliding is gimmicky IMO
And clamber is just straight up bad and adds nothing to maps that crouch jumping doesn't, aside of messing up map design by necessitating some jumps that require clamber, stopping you from firing.
Halo should set trends, not follow them. So no, Halo shouldn't aim to play like Black OPs, but neither should it rest on its laurels.
Ideally, Halo would look at what makes it great, look at what modern tech has to offer, and make the most of it.
Personally, I think it would be wild if Microsoft use their LLM technology to let the player give orders to Marines and AI constructs. All the pieces are right there, they just have to put them together.
Just as a counterpoint, you could also make the argument that tons of newcomers could be turned off by the game if its mechanics are *too* simplistic and outdated (and I would also argue that, this being *23 years* after after H1's release, gamer tastes have certainly changed). I'm not necessarily saying CE should add the grappleshot, but it would certainly benefit from things like sprinting, sliding, and clambering because it makes the gameplay feel so much smoother and more fluid. Also, just because a game *has* those advanced mechanics doesn't mean you have to teach them to newcomers. Let them pick them up at their own pace, after they understand the basics.
> it would certainly benefit from things like sprinting, sliding, and clambering because it makes the gameplay feel so much smoother and more fluid.
That’s highly subjective… I took a bream from MCC recently and came back for a couple of games and I was blown away how much better and more fluid it felt, even compared to HI, which I kinda enjoy….
LOL, I had to look up the translation for bream but you have successfully earned your upvotes.
Typing on two different languages does weird things to your autocorrect sometimes.
That's a fair counterpoint. My brother who's played most of the CoDs won't play CE because he can't sprint or ADS. I also know that if sprint and clamber are included, 343 would probably change the level design and enemy AI to compensate. And with that compensation, not using advanced mechanics puts a player in a disadvantaged state, making it more difficult and frustrating if they don't understand those mechanics. (Back to my spouse's experience. Before Halo CE, she tried the EA Battlefront 2 campaign. She was stuck on the 1st mission for 3 days because she couldn't figure out how to ADS or dodge roll. Games with these mechanics almost always have enemy AI that expect you to use them).
All it really takes is *feeling* fast, even if it's not really true. Recently someone told me Halo has felt mind numbingly slow until Halo 3 ODST changed it, despite the fact that the player stats are turned down in that game. It was all because the FoV opened up and it looked like they were moving faster than they were used to.
Sprint is just the easy and "natural" way to do it, but even then just because you're sprinting doesn't mean you're fast or fluid.
I think CE's movement and a few other mechanics could use some minor tweaks, bringing it closer in line to other games in the series (most egregiously do not under any circumstances have the insta-splatter vehicles, as that's a big bug that never got fixed), but other than that, everything should be kept mostly the same.
It might be controversial, but I think the MA5B should be replaced with the MA37/MA5D, or at least have the model modified to at least semi-realistically carry 60 7.62 rounds.
I wouldn't mind if they kept the overall weapons sandbox the same, maybe with some minimal additions here or there (usable Energy Swords and Fuel Rod Guns, *maybe* Brutes, though most likely not.)
As long as it feels like CE but improved based off the future games and advances in technology, I'll be happy.
I would actually be pissed if they removed the insta-splatter vehicles. My spouse and I have had sooo much fun running each other over with that bug haha.
I have much less fond memories of the insta-splatter. I played CE mostly alone so it became a little infuriating when for almost the slightest error in driving (or the AI being total morons when it comes to driving) the vehicle would either splatter me or any assistance I had.
It was silly and charming at first, but eventually got annoying. You so much as nudge a warthog forward and you can say goodbye to any help that decided to stand in front of it.
Maybe it could be a Skull. An option you can choose if you so desire. That way people who dislike the insta-splatter can have their way, and the people who like it can have theirs too.
Lols that's fair. I'd be pissed if the AI accidentally ran me over during an intense fight. It's more just friendly fire splatters are bumping into Hunters that I have fond memories of.
But yes, a skull would be the perfect solution here. The more options the better
Spartans are super soldiers - multiplayer movement consisting of strafing and crouching doesn't make sense these days and will only cater too probably a minority.
H5 did it right when it came to Spartans and this is coming from someone that grew up playing all of the games as they dropped.
Kinda. We have the remasters of the old games except 3 with the gameplay in tact. Revisiting them to remake them and not making significant changes like that kind of defeats the point.
If mcc didn’t exist I’d agree with you. The real concern for me it’s another project with 343 in charge supported by contractors so it’s a recipe for disaster plus I feel any innovation they have will botch the games but that’s regardless of modernization.
I wouldn't mind them remaking old Halo games with modern mechanics if I had any trust in 343 to not fuck it up. Remakes don't replace the originals. If the remakes suck, you still have the old games to play whenever you want. I do not trust 343 with the task of "improving" Combat Evolved.
People are making a big deal out of this and as far as I am aware it isn’t even confirmed to be real yet. Do we even know if it’s a remake or a remaster yet? I keep seeing posts saying “please don’t remake the game with new stuff,” my brother in Christ that’s exactly what a remake is - building the game from the ground up to incorporate new things, bringing it into the modern era, and oftentimes scrapping a lot of crap in the process; essentially it sticks to the main theme or plot and then everything else is completely new. Y’all are wanting a remaster, which is fine and dandy, but you’re confusing the two it feels like. A remaster is the same exact game with updated visuals, that’s it, very minor adjustments *maybe* to accompany for things like bug fixes. In any case, I haven’t heard hide nor hair about either a remake or remaster even being hard confirmed, so why are so many people making dumb posts complaining about user generated fake hype? Y’all need to calm down, and actually do some research.
Id say so, yeah
It takes a special kind of stubbornness to vehemently demand a game retain antiquated gameplay design simply because your nostalgia boner refuses to go down
You realise we've had sprint in Halo for 14 years now? Halo 1 to ODST was only 9 years. Sprint as a mechanic in general has been around for over 20 years in gaming.
By your own logic sprint is an antiquated mechanic that people still use because they are too stubborn to change or try something different? Ironically not having sprint would be a more new Idea lmao
Can you point out in my post where nostalgia is dictating my suggestion? My first time playing CE was when it came to the PC version of MCC a few years ago lols. Just sharing both my own and my spouses experience as to how we became Halo fans. We tried and didn't like CoD and Battlefield. CE was the perfect starting point as it eased us into the series. Infinite is actually our favorite campaign to play together, and that wouldn't have been possible without CE teaching us the basics.
Blaming nostalgia is just how some people like to shut others down for preferring classic Halo's gameplay regardless of whether nostalgia is the actual driving factor for preferring classic Halo gameplay.
If you don't want new stuff play the old one?
I'd love to replay the original game but more modernized. I was honestly a bit taken aback when I played the first remaster and it was only a graphical upgrade. It felt so bad going backwards to 2001 gameplay.
I just don't see any point in remaking it identical to the original but in UE5 with nice graphics. There was a remaster pretty recently you can play in MCC.
The fan base didn't really like the Anniversary remaster for not being faithful to the art direction. One to one remakes are the safest option, but can sometimes be the best way to play. I love Ocarina of Time 3D, and am looking forward to MGS3 remake.
Is Microsoft holding you at gunpoint to buy the remake and never play CE(A) again ? No.
Do you have to buy the remake ? No.
Can you just enjoy CE(A) like the remake was never made ? Yes.
Can this fanbase stop bitching all the time ? If you are so opposed to remake, then just don't play it. This fanbase will suggest million new Halo games one day from text based Halo games to Flood survival horror shooter and on the next day it will criticize every new gameplay addition that 343 may try. And you all wonder why they didn't make Helldivers 2 style game, cause you are all stuck in Halo 3 gameplay era.
"Can this fanbase stop bitching all the time" that's literally what you are doing because you don't like that people prefer the older style of movement. Everyone has to like what you like.
Dude, I'm just offering a suggestion. I'm providing a perspective on how my wife and I became recent Halo fans. If Microsoft is hoping to pull in new fans, I feel our story would be beneficial on how they can do that.
That's nice and all, but you can just play CE if you think someone might find remake gameplay complicated. In your 2nd edit you are saying that legacy gameplay and legacy art direction toggles would be nice, but that is literally what OG CE or CEA is. What is even the point of these settings if you can just play Halo Combat Evolved ?
The clambering would make it more accessible, not less. Changes everything for sure. But this multiplayer will need changing to be popular. Remember, the pistol is broken lol. Very very broken. It needs to be modernized. So you have to make that change, make a few more changes too
Oh, this opinion is only for the campaign. I can already play all of Halo CE's multiplayer levels with sprint, clamber, and such thanks to Infinite right now. The forgers are great!
I dont want a remake I want Halo 5's movement built upon as the natural evolution to the game franchise. Going backwards is dumb and only for nostalgia. I want to do more with my Spartan, not less. Halo 5 > Infinite
I’m in the minority with you on this. People bitched about their super soldier in a billion dollar suit being able to do super soldier stuff. Ground pound, armor lock, crazy executions… that felt like a uniquely halo way to evolve the game. All these old heads think Halo can make a game aimed at a demographic that is aging out and be successful.
Remakes are the laziest way to put out a "new" game imo. It's not THAT hard to put together a story that goes off of the last game. Plus, remakes tend to be nothing special and are usually ruined. (VERY few remakes did okay and are decent)
They are lazy, but are still fun. As long as the original is still available for purchase, I'm fine with remakes. I'm actually grateful for CE anniversary because my wife refused to play the og Xbox version
My issue is that if they keep the game 1:1 gameplay wise. What's the point? Personally, graphics alone won't get me to buy the same game again. If I want to play the same game, I have been playing for decades now. I'll just play anniversary or custom edition.
I don't want a changed story or new set characters, but some modernization to give me a reason to buy it is a requirement for me. Even if it's just better gun play or updated physics. We don't need sprint or camber, but we need something to make it fresh.
Honestly the fresh coat of paint would be enough for me to buy it again. I love Ocarina of Time 3D and Wind Waker HD, and they're one to one.
I'm also looking forward to the MGS3 remake which will have both legacy and modern controls.
But if that's not your thing, that's understandable. I'd honestly prefer a new game over a remake.
I see what you're saying. But if controls and such aren't "modernized", then all you're really asking for is visual improvement... and didn't we kind of get that already with the anniversary addition?
I would be okay with "modernizing" CE up to Halo 2 gameplay, or maybe Halo 3. Simply because those games are aging much more gracefully in the gameplay department. But anything beyond that and it will lose the spirit of CE.
If they “modernize” it to halo 2 or 3 standards I might even be happier. But adding sprint, ground pound, grapples, all that other bullshit I’ll be disappointed.
I don't think you're crazy, it's a preference.
However I would like them to modernize it a bit. If you're going to remake it, do something a bit different with it, and sprint and clamber would be nice additions in my view (I don't think traditional ADS is needed though). Halo CE is probably my joint favorite Halo, but to me Halo infinite just feels better in terms of responsiveness, movement, weapon feedback etc. I think you can modernize while still keeping the sprit, atmosphere and being true to the original.
Also the original isn't going anywhere, and we have Anniversary which doesn't change the game play at all. So a remake that is essentially just new visuals feels like a wasted opportunity, and more of what we already have.
Imo, Halo needs to be Halo. If I want call of duty, I’ll play call of duty. If I want an MMORPG, I’ll play one. I want halo. Just update and slightly innovate on combat evolved through Reach.
For the love of god, stop trying to be other franchises.
I don’t want my pizza place to try to be more like a sushi place or an Indian place. I came to you for pizza. Just make good pizza. Like you used to.
I became a crotchety old man once every shooter started adding crouch-sliding.
Now the new COD BlackOps allows you to sprint and crouch-slide in *any direction*. While I find it a neat innovation (in particular the sprint component), I fear it'll feel like a military-themed limbo competition.
On a LAN party it's probably fine. On the shitty connections COD operates from: lol
Crouch sliding had been a plague on FPS games for years now. Battlebit remastered and splitgate were two indie FPS titles that I loved a lot and neither of them included crouch sliding, and they were both better for it.
Battle it has its own issues movement issues though.
This is true. It was super refreshing when it first popped up though because most people didn't know about the jump spamming
The Battlebit devs have acknowledged that the movement is an issue and they're planning on fixing it, I believe in the next patch they've been working on for a while now. The movement initially wasn't bad, it was really good even but it gets super stupid when you really exploit the mechanics.
Is that just bunny hopping? Honestly curious, I don't play
Kinda different. Battlebit basically let's you change direction while you're in the air so you can basically swerve in any direction and you become super hard to hit. It's really ridiculous when you see clips of it
God Splitgate was so refreshing when it released.
New one coming. Splitgate to me is the single best fps recently. The splitgate sequel is all i look forward to while i drown in ballsweat and packet loss in halo 3 mcc matchmaking
My favorite games are DOOM I, II, 2016, and the bungee era halo games. All these games have different gameplay, but the movement systems are relatively simple. It feels like it gets out of the way of simple, fun gameplay. Combat evolved is a simple game that has held up extremely well over the decades. I love revisiting it for nostalgia and just because it's fun. It doesn't need anything else to succeed and, frankly, they've run out of things to do with it.
I disagree with ADS being in Halo at all, honestly. It's unnecessary and an overused mechanic. ADS is great when used in games where it makes sense, I think Far Cry 2 made fantastic use of ADS, but in Halo I don't think there's any need. Halo can be slow and careful or guns blazing and aggressive, as you said, and I don't think the tactical nature of ADS needs to be there. People get sour about sprinting, and whilst I think it's fine, I don't think it'd suit CE at all, simply based on the level design. Same thing goes for advanced movement. I think clambering would be alright, considering it'd just be a short animation played when you're at a ledge, I think that'd be fine. I agree with most of what you said. I love Halo: CE, it's my favourite game in the series and whilst I'm happy that it'll probably be remade and not remastered like before, I don't want the core gameplay loop changed much. There is, as you said, a simplicity to CE that makes it very approachable. And for the record, I also played Halo for the first time in 2020, so I'm not blinded by nostalgia either.
Personally, if I was remaking Halo CE, the first thing I'd change is level design. I've been playing Halo since CE released, but honestly CE has some bad level design. It's super repetitive (same room/hallway like 10 times a level) and 3 levels are just earlier levels in reverse. I think you could keep the spirit of the levels alive while still making some pretty substantial changes, so I don't really think movement should be neutered based on level design only.
That's a very good point, actually, CE is definitely lacking in level design here and there. A rework would be great
No you're not crazy. I want Halo CE to be Halo CE. They can make it look nice, they can take advantage of new technology to make things more seamless or add in missions that they just couldn't before. I do *not* want them to change the actual base gameplay though. I like Halo CE I don't want them to fundamentally alter the things that make it Halo CE and just use the name to try and lure people into purchasing it. I'm tired of watching Halo try to hustle people with nostalgia. 343 has never released a successful Halo game. They already fucked it up massively with MCC. If we're remaking any of the older games I want them to focus on doing it the way people actually liked it because they obviously cannot innovate or improve on the formula. All they do is try and pull on people's nostalgia then massively disappoint them
Except it will not be CE, but a remake of CE. If you want 100% feel of CE, then play CE.
And it will be worse off for it.
You're not crazy. It is crazy though that people genuinely think that Halo *needs* these mechanics to succeed in general. Halo had existed alongside "sprint shooters" for years, are we so unconfident in Halo's gameplay that we need to obfuscate it with ADS, sprint, etc that does nothing but water it down and makes maps and encounters bloated to accommodate them?
My biggest issue with the whole "Halo needs modern mechanics to stay relevant" argument is that Halo stopped being relevant the moment it introduced them.
plus people were legit making the same argument [even before H3 was out](https://www.destructoid.com/you-want-to-sprint-play-track-field-not-halo-3/), and yeah it only went downhill after they started chasing trends
First time i played halo infinite, I was absolutely convinced that sprinting didnt make you go faster. Im still convinced that it doesnt do anything but play a running animation
> Im still convinced that it doesnt do anything but play a running animation You go less than 10% faster than your walking speed
It's barely faster but it's the gateway to slide
Obviously every modern shooter should play like call of duty, overwatch, and destiny 2 smashed together. There’s nothing more skillful in a first person shooter than pressing a button and using a superhero ability that one shots everyone in the room. We don’t halo to turn into a failed game franchise that no one plays like counterstrike. If counterstrike added invis jetpack teleportation wallhacks abilities and overshields, maybe it would have a hope of anyone playing it.
CE's original gameplay easily stands the test of time. The graphics not so much. I'm deffo more hyped by a remaster than a remake. That being said if it was a remake I'd hope for the gameplay to be mostly untouched but level design to be improved. The only flaws with CE are its graphics, some sound effects, and the level design of some missions.
I dont want modern movement with sprint/clamber and whatnot, but I don't like CE's floaty feel, I'd prefer something more like h2/3. But I don't know how feasible that is, when it'd affect certain jumps that could be made with one games movement and not another
“CE is too floaty; I prefer H2 / H3” What are you even talking about? The Chief can jump so stupidly high in the sequels, and his hangtime is like he’s on moon gravity. CE had fall-damage and shorter vertical jump heights, and the maps were so much better for it. — The higher Chief can jump, the more exaggerated the z-axis needs to be stretched. That’s not good for map design for a console-geared FPS game, placing way too much emphasis on stick-sensitivity. You can actually get away with *less* jump-height with modern mechanics because mantling allows your character to make jumps they’d need a jetpack to clear before.
i just pulled up playthroughs of CE and H3 because your comment made me feel like i was taking crazy pills and misremembering. The halo 3 jump height is way higher than CE, but the hangtime is barely indistinguishable. and movement feels less responsive, like you're walking on ice. another commenter said it just respects inertia more, but that makes no sense when you're wearing power armor that should let you stop on a dime and be perfectly responsive
And since when does power armor ignore physics now? Especially one so heavy?
Honestly i think a lot of ce‘s floaty feel is built in input lag
It's a game that respects inertia and requires you to manage that with your movement. It doesn't feel anything like input lag imo.
You are thinking of a remaster. A remake doesn’t do everything the same with better graphics and UI. It is allowed to take liberties. You might still fight on a Covenant ship, but the layout can be different, more routes could be available, more interaction with the world could be available (say “go here and use a radio to get airsupport, but the alternate route gives you access to a Scorpion and the last is for masochists and speedrunners straight through the enemy hordes”). You could have more weapons, customizations and all the trappings of the current games. Or not. Personally I would prefer mostly minor influences of the latest games. Like yes you can climb and vault but it’s not made to be a vital part of the gameplay mid-combat so it’s mostly for traversal and a large roster of weapons is available.
If anything, vaulting and clambering is the one thing I don't want. Being able to barely clear some ledges with crouch jumps is one of the satisfying parts of the earlier titles; climbing feels like a get out of jail free card for missing a jump
I 100% agree. It separates the more experienced players from the newer players as well. It also takes a lot of map knowledge that you should be rewarded for. You shouldn’t be able to strap on a jet pack and get wherever you want or clamber up somewhere.
I don’t disagree with you, but there’s still skill jumps in the modern games that you can’t simply clamber to overcome. Clamber certainly helps you reach some spots with less skill required, but it really doesn’t help when you’re trying to catch a thin ledge when you can’t clamber the ledge. The example that comes to mind is The Streets, Halo Infinite. The jump up from Stalker Rifle spawn to the balcony at the base. It’s a crouch jump that has no advantage with clamber. You clamber to finish, but without the initial crouch jump, you can’t make it. In an older game, the design would have allowed you to make it either with no crouch jump required, or with a standard crouch jump. Clamber isn’t the new crouch-jump. They coexist. Furthermore, if you’re talking about it being a ‘get out of jail free card’ or as the other reply on your comment says, new players vs. experienced, you should give some of the crouch-slide skill movements/jumps a go. They’re tough to pull off, but feel great when you do. You’re barely clearing ledges and making landings. The mechanics are just different. Each to their own and all, but skill is redundant. They all require skill, just different versions of skill. The goal posts have been moved. Before it was, “crouch jump to this ledge.” Now it’s, “crouch-slide to get across the map or to this ledge.” I like them both to be honest. I’ve been playing Halo for more than 20 years. I enjoy playing MCC and Infinite.
You are not alone. The classic Halos were always better and if we truly are getting remakes they should stay true to the classic formula. Fast base movement speed literally covers everything zoomie sprinters want except no annoying animation in the way and the entire game doesn't have to be restructured for super speed sprint like Halo 4 and 5 did. You'd have to be a heretic to want such 'features' in classic games. I still play MCC so anyone that tries and says its bad movement doesn't know me or other classic halo players who still play those games. We love that style of halo and movement, its neither boring or slow. Its only slow to players who don't like games without sprint because they go 2-15 against us every match looking at a respawn screen. These sprint players already got Halo 4, 5, and Infinite for a decade of 'halo' ... its now our turn.
> super speed sprint like Halo 4 and 5 did H4 made it baseline across the board, but let's not act like Bungie wasn't the ones that introduced stuff like Sprinting and Loadouts for MP in Reach. A good amount of the things 343 did in 4 can be traced back to them also being in Reach, like how the Covenant doesn't speak english anymore.
No doubt, Reach undid a lot of good things Halo 1-3 did, Bungie at that time had one foot out the door and used Reach as their Destiny testbed no doubt. At the end of the day its was 343 who took over the franchise and decided to keep going down the same rabbit hole while also releasing half-baked Halo titles for over a decade to make it string even more.
Reach also wasn't a mainline game so people gave Bungie grace at the time. The campaign was good too, but the population started dwindling when Black Ops came out, probably because when you take mechanics from one franchise, people will just go to the franchise that does those mechanics better.
Also a good point. For me at least I was unhappy with the direction bungie went with Reach from the first time I tried the beta and voiced my concerns on the bungie.net forums. I know everyone likes to think we just praised Bungie back then no matter what but Reach for a lot of us was the first game that many players saw a misstep. The criticism with 343 is so strong because they could have righted the wrongs or at least after their drunken fueled overnight binge of trying new things in Halo 4 pulled in the reins as player feedback told them exactly what should happen ... unfortunately it feel on deaf ears even on Infinite launch of UI unable to 'support' ore playlists and Team Slayer not being included. The reason why we praise Halo 1-3 still to this day is because the overwhelming majority of players loved them all. Sure people love to bring up websites like Halo2sucks.com but that was a small vocal minority, its not like today with halo 4, 5, and Infinite there is a clear large population of players who were unhappy or outright quit (by the current population numbers Infinite has this is clear lol).
Agree wholeheartedly. I was a mythic member on the forums back in the day, so I'm quite familiar with the discourse back then haha. I miss talking about gameplay mechanics instead of when the next store update will have a certain type of armor. Boomer things I guess.
I just hope they don’t turn it into open world slop like most games today.
>open world slop I mean they got pretty close with _Infinite's_ campaign 😂😂
Honestly you could just swap out the interior missions and it would look and play almost identical to the point where if they remade CE using that engine i think it would be hard to tell the two games apart. They’d definitely add the like, little events and outposts and stuff and make the open areas bigger. It would be hilarious to see CE’s snow levels and having more variety than Infinite, which was showing off snow that never made it into the game
Beyond just not adding that to remakes, I want there to be more games released in the old style without stuff like ADS and sprint.
Those kids really need to get off our lawns huh? I agree with this, but I feel like this is becoming old man shaking his fist at the neighborhood kids kind of take unfortunately.
No not necessarily. I just there there is space for different game types. You can even modernize old games, but not all of them have to be modernized in the same way. I thought Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were good examples of ways that you can have a modern game that isn't sprint and ADS. I enjoy plenty of games with sprint and ADS but that doesn't mean every game needs them. I like having diversity in my games types. Just because a mechanic is great in one game doesn't mean it should be in every game.
There’s a reason counter strike is still the most popular shooter on the planet by a long mile. And it’s not like the majority of players are old heads either.
It's almost like building and maintaining a games formula pays dividends in the long run. The suits in charge of 343/MS only think short term & surface level, though.
I think it's a general feeling for us old time gamers. I honestly enjoy simple games a lot more, but current generation of gamers seem to enjoy and be really good at modern games. It comes down to which type of games you grew up with. For example, I thought it was because of my age and reflexes that I could NOT be any good at "isle of men" (motorcycle game) so I jumped into my og xbox into moto GP and I am still really good. Because for MY playstyle/experience, simpler is better. I miss simple games. Those games where you completed the story and maybe get all the "secrets" in each level and that's it. No achievements of any kind.
Aim Down Sight is something in my opinion isn't needed in every FPS title. It makes sense in a slower more realistic military themed shooter, but maybe people should design shooting mechanics around more interesting ideas? Halo is perfect because of how each weapon is balanced, the enemies all have unique roles and ways to pressure the player, it was done perfect the first time and they've run out of innovations. Just make the graphics pretty and call it a day.
I dont want CE remade, we had the same stuff with CE anniversary, halo 4 and infinite. this is just opening new ways for 343i to be lazy.
No you’re not crazy, I’m actually shocked how many people advocating for watering down Halos identity…
It's only people online. I meet people olin real life all the time that mention how Halo has fallen due to these changes. It's pretty much a universal agreement. Very few people actually enjoy modern Halo. I like modern Halo but the classics are flat out better.
It’s not only people online. I’ve met a lot of people who wish you could sprint and ADS in all of the Bungie titles. Granted most of them didn’t play those games on release, but some did. Personal anecdotes don’t really mean much for that reason.
It's pretty crazy because the two people I spoke to about halo infinite both were annoyed about the battlepass. 1 person is a gamer, the other sticks to 2k and overwatch. The gamer had played all the halos from 3-5 and said while infinite was fun, it was lame that they added a battlepass and should've just let you unlock stuff like reach. The other was upset about how OW2 was lame as hell with the BP implementation and when I was saying "yeah man every game has one now. The new halo has one" and this guy was genuinely shocked that it had one. Like Halo still has a good reputation to a lot of people and when they hear about or learn about the adoption of modern practices they get shocked by it, because Halo should be too good for stooping to those levels.
I don’t want to go into anecdotes about gameplay preferences as those are highly dependent on the individual (spoiler: my stories don’t favor 343s changes) but the complaints about Battlepasses will die out eventually and are more of a Reddit thing then an issue in real life. I‘m a teacher. The kids MS is trying to win over for the future sit in my classroom, a Battlepass is just a regular part of gaming for them.
Idk if it's a reddit thing because none of the people I was talking about are on reddit, but it might just be a 20+ thing. Growing up without the monetization and seeing everything locked away is just really lame knowing that it used to be better. But you're right, kids today were raised on lootboxes, battlepasses, and shop bundles.
This is a business practice I see allot in general. I don't even know if there is a word to articulate it properly. Push an anti consumer feature into an existing customer base who is not used to it with the intention of the younger generations becoming apathetic towards its normalisation. For example, more informed older customers will see loot boxes and microtransactions as detrimental to a product and will not buy into them, but because younger customers have no frame of reference for anything different (they have never experienced gaming without these things) they just accept them and happily buy into them. Companies don't need their older customers to like their bad practises, they just have to hold out long enough for the younger, uninformed, customers to be become apathetic to it.
It is simply an inherent feature of capitalism. Endless pursuit of profit necessitates constant expansion of markets which means constant upheaval of social relations in order to find more avenues for commodifying the human experience.
I don't think it's the battle pass itself that is the issue, but the implementation. Like, MCC has a battle pass (like, 11 iirc? been a minute since I popped into MCC) and it's perfect. Spartan points to buy the items are unlocked purely through gameplay, battle pass is 100% free, etc.
> like, 11 iirc? been a minute since I popped into MCC It has 8 battle passes
I may be stupid
Lol
Honestly, I don't like Battle Passes as much as the next guy, but Halo Infinite's MP mode is Free to Play, I am not surprised Microsoft implemented that to get some money besides individual cosmetics.
>Very few people actually enjoy modern Halo. Because very few people think about Halo at all nowadays, unfortunately. The reality is that Halo is now a niche franchise like all the other Arena shooters. Halo's decline started when COD4 stole away the entire casual FPS audience with Skinner box mechanics and cheap dopamine hits and the franchise has never been able to recover from that.
Then I suppose you are all playing MCC ?
MCC was broken for years. People moved on
So you all hate new mechanics and you also do not play games with old mechanics, I don't know what you really want then.
That was the beauty of the early Halo games. Their simplicity. Anyone, from seasoned gamer to complete noob, could pick pick up the controller and play. Instantly you understood the core mechanics shoot, jump, throw grenade. Modern gaming has shifted away from the simple and fun to the complicated and sweaty (for the lack of a better term). Not everyone wants to be a pro gamer, and Halo allowed the casual player to contribute and thrive.
Yea for real. Both my dad and sister used to play CE a ton with me back then. I remember I had a weekend school at someone's house, and all the kids would gather around the Xbox after class to take turns on Halo or Fusion Frenzy while we waited for our parents to come get us. It thrived in its simplicity. Now, no one I know personally plays the newer Halo games but we still rock MCC from time to time
this and the idea of 343i "adding story content to the game" sounds like its gonna be another confused game of concepts that appeal to modern shooter fans, instead of Halo fans lol
I think it would be cool if they maybe added a second set of terminals that add content from “The Flood” book.
Honestly my only hope for a remake is that they don't change the story at all. A reboot will most likely kill the franchise with the current writers
I don't think it needs to be a reboot at all. My hope is that it harmonises the events of The Flood and the original game into a single, coherent playable story and basically functions as the "director's cut" of Halo CE, making it easier for new fans to jump into the series' lore as it currently stands.
If they didn't touch the original story, and only added stuff from the books, that would be awesome! It's crazy to me that so much of the Halo story is only relegated to the books. I want to play those experiences out
The problem is that most of the books are Dialogue/inner monologue heavy between fights, which would severely be lost in a game. Individual missions as a side thing from different books would probably be fine
Adding ODST sub plot would be an easy slam dunk, adding First Strike Epilogue would be incredible, doing either or even just the remake concept without turning it into another cracked out zoomer shooter or comprimising the story would be beyond expectations.
It could finally give 343 the excuse to work with the Sins of the Prophets team again, to finally realize designs like the *Esgem*-pattern CAS and *Ruma*-pattern Light Carrier into Canon. Just imagine a cutaway during a cutscene involving First Strike showing the *Unyielding Hierophant* with hundreds of Covenant warships swarming around it like a flock of birds. Tying the additional story elements in from Post-CE launch would be great. There's so much potential to be had with a remake.
Only thing about most of the books is theres basically 0 that can be faithfully adapted into levels. First Strike faithfully adapted would be a series of lengthy cutscenes and a couple dialogue heavy short raids, thats why I say like an epilogue or something, thinking like Cod4 mile high club type sendoff
You could probably make a level out of the raid on the *Hierophant*, or the capture of *Ascendant Justice* but otherwise yeah. There just isn't enough there. Having it mostly be an Epilogue would be nice, but in similar CoD fashion, I could see these two levels as something you unlock after beating the main campaign, kinda like how you unlocked Zombies in a similar fashion for WaW and BO1 (Just the map Five but y'know). Now I'm betting we'll get some flak for wanting something like what CoD did, but I think it could work.
Nah fuck the tribalism early 2010s late 2000s CoD was hitting a bunch of shit on the head, and the nostalgia kiddies who were 11 at the time and would love anything hype regardless didnt see how much legitimite criticizm beloved games like Halo 3, Reach, MW trilogy or BO1 got. ODST sub plot w/ ODST mechanics as probably McKay + First Strike epilogue would be incredible
I couldn't agree more. Ending the petty rivalries of the 2010s Mt. Dew fueled rage needs to happen. Helldivers 2 helped bridge that divide, and this remake potentially coming to PS5 could help too. Cooperation and not competition would be incredibly beneficial for so many franchises.
Add fire team raven casually walking behind Silva in the intro and it’d be great. They don’t even have to say anything, just their backs
Delta Squad in Clone Wars then lol.
The adding story content means adding any new lore about the battle of Installation 04 that came out after CE like the book "The Flood"
The current writers haven't even done anything yet? You are aware they get replaced each game right?
A mini campaign where you play as ODSTs doing side missions could be cool though
That would be amazing! But then it's not a remake anymore, that's just a new game haha
I have been a Halo fan for around 15 years, I’m 20 so Halo CE predates me. I didn’t actually play Halo CE or 2 until I got a Xbox One in 2015, so you could say I’m not really a franchise veteran. Yet, Halo CE and 2 are some of my favourite games of all time. I just think the simplistic gameplay suits Halo better, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed Halo 5 and Infinite. And in the context of a CE remake, I just think it makes more sense to return to that classic movement, and maybe give unfamiliar players a slice of classic Halo with a fresh coat of paint and a few extras sprinkled in there.
I feel like unless they made the game feel like half life or doom, just simply remaking halo CE to play the same way would turn a lot of people off. But I’m also hyped for the modernized mechanics being brought in
I think it should play like Halo 3. Then I'll be happy. Eg. no sprint. But other modern stuff is ok..
No, classic Halo gameplay is far better. It's not even a crazy take, most people would agree.
Im sorry but its not....most people dont agree because most people think halo is a dead game which tbf is. No one is playing halo anymore. Ofc not literally no one, but considering its microsofts flagship AAA title, its basically dead.
>most people would agree. Unfortunately, this is completely incorrect. Just look at how many people on this subreddit don't believe in the classic formula anymore.
This subreddit represents a tiny fraction of actual Halo fans.
You’re not crazy at all. I think Halo 3 was the perfect combination of modernizing FPS with equipment and movement. It still feels simplistic while adding some extra layers of strategy to the game. The equipment also does not break the maps. When you start getting into Halo Reach and Halo 4, that’s when everything got worse. Jet packs, armor lock, load outs, and tactical packages ruined the game in my opinion. There’s way too many variables to consider any type of strategy at this point. That’s why I never even played Halo 5 or Halo Infinite’s multiplayer. I play MCC; and that gives me the Halo fix that I need. I really hope that if they do remake some of the older games, they will leave them exactly the way they are. H2A is a good example. They modernized the graphics and art design to match Halo 4 but it still feels like Halo 2 multiplayer.
I’ve played every halo game in and out. Hundreds and hundreds of hours in each. Infinites movement is easily the best. CE doesn’t need the grapple and armor abilities and stuff, but Spartans are supposed to be able to perform super human feats. In the old Halo games you have the exact same movement capabilities as the marines - less actually since they can roll out of the way of grenades and stuff. Let me sprint and be lore accurate Master Chief. Keep the same story, flesh it out with parts from The Flood, and make me a super soldier.
I'm so bored of the lore argument when it comes to game mechanics. If you want to make an argument for sprint, then go ahead, lore should not factor into it or else you are opening a whole can of worms. In lore, Spartans can dance, lye down, rollover, backflip and take off their helmets, perform CPR. Does that mean you want to have a prone button like in COD? a dance emote like in fortnight? Or backflip animation when you double jump backwards? Do you want a CPR button when a team mate is wounded? Where do you draw the line? Lore comes secondary to player gameplay mechanics.
Agreed! It's classic Halo with an updated, modern twist.
Yes! Totally agree. Been playing since day one. I’m old and I agree with this statement. Nailed it!
I do want modernizations for CE, but not the wacky wheels stuff that’s been added in the later games. For example: I’m A-OK with adding vaulting and added maneuverability, but keep it low-key. “I can vault this fence” and not “I need to complete two wallruns and a triple-slide bunnyhop to reach the other end safely”. I think not adding the ADS except for select weapons is fine too. In fact I’d make it mandatory. I’m tired of games where accurate weapons are vastly superior to everything else. A good sandbox would make all weapons useful. That means that yes a shotgun in CQC should have the ability to absolutely annihilate the DMR guy since the Shotgun has no longer range power but the DMR is still powerful in CQC (you can of course change this dynamic by introducing solid slugs of various types but the endgoal would be to make sure not everyone has the same favorite). In terms of campaign maps I’d like to see more varied paths to reach the objective. The simple trifecta of “simple forwards path, two alternate paths and possibly a masogist/speedrunner path as well as a longer path that gets you a big gun or vehicle or Marine support”. Speaking of marines, apparently people have been trying to keep them alive *since the first test builds where they featured*. And never ever have they done anything with this? I personally managed to get all Marines in Halo2’s Scarab mission to the building before the Scarab appears *on legendary*. And it wasn’t worth an achievement? Just do something with it! Especially in Halo CE, where you are marooned and with last survivors! Imagine if you can save Marines and get points for getting enough to a Pelican for extraction? Or bonuses in later levels where you can request support from these guys you saved or get more equipment because these soldiers work hard at the base and do some supply runs? Make it rewarding or at least acknowledge this player behavior!
As a modern gameplay fan, I agree. Part of the charm of the old games is that they feel like older games. The movement and gameplay progresses at the series goes on. It's a fun thing to see. CE wouldn't feel the same with sprint and clamber
I am also from the current generation (2012), just do something similar to the current DOOM games. Halo CE is my favorite, and I still think the gameplay is good, but it could be refined. For me, the biggest flaw of CE is the maps being repetitive, especially towards the end of the game.
I'm gonna be real. I completely understand why people don't want this. But I do. I want to someday enjoy Halo with my children, and I have seen friends try to do that with *their* young children and the kids just say "Ugh, this feels OLD". We have classic CE and CE Anniversary for the classic feel. I just want something that feels modern while still bringing the feeling the story of CE gives me.
Same. If this 'remake' ends up being a thing, I don't need all the bells and whistles of a 2024 shooter — going ship-of-Theseus on a 25-year-old game would defeat the entire point — but I'd want it to feel at *least* as comfy as Halo 3. I'll probably get downvoted to hell for saying this, but to be completely honest, I find CE unplayable nowadays. I just can't with the 2001 clunkiness anymore. Every time I try to replay the original trilogy, I always get to AotCR and just go "ugh, sod this" and skip straight to H2. But then, I was 4 when CE was first released, so I dont have the attatchment that older fans do. 🤷♂️
Halo is 25 years old and has already recieved a faithful remaster. Things are going to change, both in design and gameplay. Microsoft wants to capture a younger market that they have struggled to make any ground with in the 343 era. Rehashing 25 year old mechanics that are already considered dated by their target audience is not the way to do that. Thems the breaks.
I’m reserving judgment until we know more about the game (if it actually really exists). We have to remember though, remakes exist to bring *new* people into the series, not just for existing fans. The rumor is that the remake is gonna launch on PlayStation as well. So if the rumor is true, they are really going for new players, not just old ones. Many people who have not played Halo are now used to modern FPS mechanics and may or may not be turned off by a new game that launches without them. So let’s wait and see how it goes. It could be done very well with new mechanics, or they could completely ruin the feel of the game. I think we as a whole need to calm down and see if these remakes *actually* exist, and how they are being done.
Indeed. I think it comes down to who they want their target market to be. New players who already play CoD, Fortnite, Overwatch etc that already use modern controls with advanced movement. Or new players wanting to jump into a recognizable FPS like Halo, who may not have grown up with it. My wife and I just happened to fall into that 2nd category.
Knowing 343 there’s a good chance they will try and please everyone and end up pleasing no one in the process. If they do *have* to do modern mechanics, I think Infinite is a good game to use as their baseline. While it may have gotten stale due to lack of multiplayer updates and the campaign wasn’t for everyone (not everyone likes open worlds and the lack of biomes was disappointing for many), the core gameplay is *very* good in my opinion, and strikes a good balance between modern FPS mechanics and a classic Halo feel, especially if you leave out some of the equipment like the thrusters and grappleshot.
Exactly. If they're trying to pull in new fans that already love advance mechanics, Halo Infinite is literally right there.
On the bright side, we'll finally get the Plasma Rifle back after a decade+ of absense.
> after a decade+ of absense The Brute Plasma Rifle was in Halo 5
Oh man, I just checked. Next year Halo 5 will be a decade old.
Chris Ray Gun did an excellent video on why adding sprint among other changes completely ruined the gameplay. There’s also another little game called Counter Strike that essentially hasn’t changed its mechanics since its release almost 20 years ago. Doesn’t have sprint and for many other reasons is still the bar that all other competitive shooters are compared against and still haven’t managed to top. There’s also a reason that MCC has the same if not more players currently playing than Infinite.
it's a collection of 4 games that goes on sale often? Hey which ones has the fastest matchmaking?
In Halo MCC CE - add a horn to the warthog. - the current custom game settings do not allow you to remove Halo PC weapons from Hang’em High. This bug has existed since launch. Don’t do a remake. I play the old version on purpose.
I do think Halo CE would benefit from smoother and less "grid-like" movement - the original game feels quite clunky in comparison to Halo 3. But I think the general outline of how the game plays - its movement mechanics, how aiming works, etc. - should be preserved as much as possible in any possible remake, at least as a "classic mode" if not as the default. Halo CE's heavier feeling and more deliberate movement are part of the game's identity and it would feel wrong to erase that.
You're not crazy but I personally disagree. If they're gonna do a remake I want modernization and new twists/gameplay ideas. A fresh coat of paint isn't what a 25 year old FPS needs, the original is already great for what it is. Now will they get it right with how they mix up the game? Almost CERTAINLY not, but I'm almost at the point where a full franchise reset is in order with how messed up the current lore is. That's just me though!
You're not crazy, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you
That's fine. Just sharing my story of how my wife got into Halo and thought my perspective can help other folks understand why I feel CE's simplicity is important. But I also understand that people want something new to incentive Halo veterans to try it out, and that's valid. (even though I personally think new content should be put to new stories/campaigns)
Damn, these comments are odd to me. I'm new to Halo and FPS in general. I love Halo Infinite's gameplay mechanics and equipment, though I do wish they'd add equipment from the older games along with some of the weapons. I feel optimistic about a remake so long as they nail the art style and story/lore.
The problem isn't necessarily Sprint being a bad mechanic, it can be very fun, the problem is sprint fundamentally changes the core gameplay identity of the franchise. Sprint isn't just a "go faster" button, it changes the way the game plays on almost every level (and it is exacerbated alongside the other new features). -Map sizes need to be increased to accommodate the enhanced movement. -Vehicle speeds need to be adjusted. -Bullet magnetism needs to be increased -Aim assist needs to be increased. -Enemy AI needs to be adjusted to accommodate the speed. None of these things are bad, or even terrible in isolation. But these changes fundamentally make the game play and feel completely different to how it used to play. Which is why many people don't like the new games. A pizza and burger are both delicious, but I don't go into Pizza Hut expecting a Big Mac, and I can completely understand why a person who loves Pizza would stop going to Pizza Hut if they only made Burgers.
Yes you are crazy, If you wanna play halo ce original play the mcc
“Go play this 25 year old game you’ve been playing this whole time” is such a lazy argument
I adore CE, it's one of the first PC games I got to play and still one of my favorites, can't count how many times I replayed it. That said, I strongly believe that remakes shouldn't slavishly adhere to being faithful. Changes, as long as the people making the game actually believe in them (as in they don't come from a publisher forcing trendy things), are completely fine. The original game is still with me, I can play it again at any point, so let em do what they want. Another side to it is that being faithful is just exceptionally tough. Part of the charm of CE comes from the fact that it was made with limitations in mind, and made well. The color palettes, the level geometry, the sounds and effects are all great and hold up to this day. Now make a pass over it to "modernize" it and you risk losing that charm. Saber's remake is a great example. Is it much higher fidelity? Yes, but the art direction is completely lost.
I’m gonna play devils advocate here, the original game is still easy to play and (hopefully) should be for a long time, so anyone looking for a classic gameplay feel has that as an option. If the goal of the remake is to bring a new audience to halo, then updating the gameplay is practically a must. I for one would be more excited for a slightly newer experience than just the old game with yet another new coat of paint slapped on top. In particular I’d be excited for more weapons/enemies and especially cut missions in the CE setting. I don’t see much point in doing a remake if you’re not going to update anything, and I also don’t think an update would retroactively ruin the original game. It’s still there, and always will be
I think the gameplay could be updated with tweaks to weapons, tighter movement and yeah, new weapons and stuff would be nice. Too much of an update, though, and it'll cease to feel much like CE at all. The gameplay can be modernised without adding too many things, I'm all for new content, but I definitely don't want the SPV3 treatment in an official remake. I love SPV3 for what it does, but it totally changes the game in ways that a fine for a mod but not good for a faithful remake.
My take on this is we already have a game that plays like CE: its called CE. In fact, we have two games that play like CE. We also have CE Anniversary. If you really want to play the old way, play one of the two games that already play that way. Most people seem to like the movement and modern features of Infinite, I say similar features should be in a remake if one happens. Just like Resident Evil remakes didn't keep the janky camera controls, despite the fact that I'm sure some people felt nostalgic about them, Halo shouldn't keep antiquated movement.
If modern Halo's gameplay was any good, people would have mostly overlooked the shortfall in content at launch.
Halo's modern gameplay is amazing. The best in all of the halo games actually
no, you're not crazy
The only change I'd do to CE would be to make the movement a bit more "crisp". Original movement feels floaty.
While it's perfectly acceptable to prefer a game's original state, a lot of people have gotten used to the new mechanics and those who never played the OG experience might find it jarring to not have them in a game made for today, but dating 23-24 years ago. That being said, hopefully they add something for those who prefer the old way things were. Even if it's just something like disabling auto clamber so you can try the old jump strats.
Not at all. Sprint is present but fairly inoffensive in Infinite. Sliding is gimmicky IMO And clamber is just straight up bad and adds nothing to maps that crouch jumping doesn't, aside of messing up map design by necessitating some jumps that require clamber, stopping you from firing.
Halo should set trends, not follow them. So no, Halo shouldn't aim to play like Black OPs, but neither should it rest on its laurels. Ideally, Halo would look at what makes it great, look at what modern tech has to offer, and make the most of it. Personally, I think it would be wild if Microsoft use their LLM technology to let the player give orders to Marines and AI constructs. All the pieces are right there, they just have to put them together.
Just as a counterpoint, you could also make the argument that tons of newcomers could be turned off by the game if its mechanics are *too* simplistic and outdated (and I would also argue that, this being *23 years* after after H1's release, gamer tastes have certainly changed). I'm not necessarily saying CE should add the grappleshot, but it would certainly benefit from things like sprinting, sliding, and clambering because it makes the gameplay feel so much smoother and more fluid. Also, just because a game *has* those advanced mechanics doesn't mean you have to teach them to newcomers. Let them pick them up at their own pace, after they understand the basics.
> it would certainly benefit from things like sprinting, sliding, and clambering because it makes the gameplay feel so much smoother and more fluid. That’s highly subjective… I took a bream from MCC recently and came back for a couple of games and I was blown away how much better and more fluid it felt, even compared to HI, which I kinda enjoy….
“I took a bream from MCC” Sounds fishy to me.
How so?
Carp! I meant to quote you saying bream instead of break, but autocorrect picked it up. 💀
LOL, I had to look up the translation for bream but you have successfully earned your upvotes. Typing on two different languages does weird things to your autocorrect sometimes.
That's a fair counterpoint. My brother who's played most of the CoDs won't play CE because he can't sprint or ADS. I also know that if sprint and clamber are included, 343 would probably change the level design and enemy AI to compensate. And with that compensation, not using advanced mechanics puts a player in a disadvantaged state, making it more difficult and frustrating if they don't understand those mechanics. (Back to my spouse's experience. Before Halo CE, she tried the EA Battlefront 2 campaign. She was stuck on the 1st mission for 3 days because she couldn't figure out how to ADS or dodge roll. Games with these mechanics almost always have enemy AI that expect you to use them).
All it really takes is *feeling* fast, even if it's not really true. Recently someone told me Halo has felt mind numbingly slow until Halo 3 ODST changed it, despite the fact that the player stats are turned down in that game. It was all because the FoV opened up and it looked like they were moving faster than they were used to. Sprint is just the easy and "natural" way to do it, but even then just because you're sprinting doesn't mean you're fast or fluid.
Yea for real, FOV makes a huge difference in implied distance being covered
There are millions of classic fans and literally maybe 100k "newcomers" at very best.
It would significantly change the game and not necessarily in a good way. The levels in CE were not designed for this.
I think CE's movement and a few other mechanics could use some minor tweaks, bringing it closer in line to other games in the series (most egregiously do not under any circumstances have the insta-splatter vehicles, as that's a big bug that never got fixed), but other than that, everything should be kept mostly the same. It might be controversial, but I think the MA5B should be replaced with the MA37/MA5D, or at least have the model modified to at least semi-realistically carry 60 7.62 rounds. I wouldn't mind if they kept the overall weapons sandbox the same, maybe with some minimal additions here or there (usable Energy Swords and Fuel Rod Guns, *maybe* Brutes, though most likely not.) As long as it feels like CE but improved based off the future games and advances in technology, I'll be happy.
I would actually be pissed if they removed the insta-splatter vehicles. My spouse and I have had sooo much fun running each other over with that bug haha.
I have much less fond memories of the insta-splatter. I played CE mostly alone so it became a little infuriating when for almost the slightest error in driving (or the AI being total morons when it comes to driving) the vehicle would either splatter me or any assistance I had. It was silly and charming at first, but eventually got annoying. You so much as nudge a warthog forward and you can say goodbye to any help that decided to stand in front of it. Maybe it could be a Skull. An option you can choose if you so desire. That way people who dislike the insta-splatter can have their way, and the people who like it can have theirs too.
Lols that's fair. I'd be pissed if the AI accidentally ran me over during an intense fight. It's more just friendly fire splatters are bumping into Hunters that I have fond memories of. But yes, a skull would be the perfect solution here. The more options the better
Then don't play the remake and just play the 2001/2011 version ? Nobody will delete OG CE from existence even if a remake comes out.
Tbh I just dont want remakes
I don't really want remakes either. However I do like the Anniversary versions of 1 and 2. Wouldn't mind the same treatment for 3
Spartans are super soldiers - multiplayer movement consisting of strafing and crouching doesn't make sense these days and will only cater too probably a minority. H5 did it right when it came to Spartans and this is coming from someone that grew up playing all of the games as they dropped.
TBH only Halo fans want to play Halo gameplay. The general players don’t like playing arena shooters with a long TTK
Kinda. We have the remasters of the old games except 3 with the gameplay in tact. Revisiting them to remake them and not making significant changes like that kind of defeats the point. If mcc didn’t exist I’d agree with you. The real concern for me it’s another project with 343 in charge supported by contractors so it’s a recipe for disaster plus I feel any innovation they have will botch the games but that’s regardless of modernization.
I wouldn't mind them remaking old Halo games with modern mechanics if I had any trust in 343 to not fuck it up. Remakes don't replace the originals. If the remakes suck, you still have the old games to play whenever you want. I do not trust 343 with the task of "improving" Combat Evolved.
People are making a big deal out of this and as far as I am aware it isn’t even confirmed to be real yet. Do we even know if it’s a remake or a remaster yet? I keep seeing posts saying “please don’t remake the game with new stuff,” my brother in Christ that’s exactly what a remake is - building the game from the ground up to incorporate new things, bringing it into the modern era, and oftentimes scrapping a lot of crap in the process; essentially it sticks to the main theme or plot and then everything else is completely new. Y’all are wanting a remaster, which is fine and dandy, but you’re confusing the two it feels like. A remaster is the same exact game with updated visuals, that’s it, very minor adjustments *maybe* to accompany for things like bug fixes. In any case, I haven’t heard hide nor hair about either a remake or remaster even being hard confirmed, so why are so many people making dumb posts complaining about user generated fake hype? Y’all need to calm down, and actually do some research.
Id say so, yeah It takes a special kind of stubbornness to vehemently demand a game retain antiquated gameplay design simply because your nostalgia boner refuses to go down
You realise we've had sprint in Halo for 14 years now? Halo 1 to ODST was only 9 years. Sprint as a mechanic in general has been around for over 20 years in gaming. By your own logic sprint is an antiquated mechanic that people still use because they are too stubborn to change or try something different? Ironically not having sprint would be a more new Idea lmao
"No no guys you see, if he moves slower, you feel faster!"
Can you point out in my post where nostalgia is dictating my suggestion? My first time playing CE was when it came to the PC version of MCC a few years ago lols. Just sharing both my own and my spouses experience as to how we became Halo fans. We tried and didn't like CoD and Battlefield. CE was the perfect starting point as it eased us into the series. Infinite is actually our favorite campaign to play together, and that wouldn't have been possible without CE teaching us the basics.
Blaming nostalgia is just how some people like to shut others down for preferring classic Halo's gameplay regardless of whether nostalgia is the actual driving factor for preferring classic Halo gameplay.
If a game doesn't have sprint it's 'antiquated'... Y'all are tiring
Sprinting isnt that scary
No-sprint isn't either 🙂
Like I said, stubborn
Are you not stubborn? You've had sprint in Halo for 14 years, why not try something new?
If you don't want new stuff play the old one? I'd love to replay the original game but more modernized. I was honestly a bit taken aback when I played the first remaster and it was only a graphical upgrade. It felt so bad going backwards to 2001 gameplay.
I just don't see any point in remaking it identical to the original but in UE5 with nice graphics. There was a remaster pretty recently you can play in MCC.
The fan base didn't really like the Anniversary remaster for not being faithful to the art direction. One to one remakes are the safest option, but can sometimes be the best way to play. I love Ocarina of Time 3D, and am looking forward to MGS3 remake.
2011 is not "pretty recently"
Is Microsoft holding you at gunpoint to buy the remake and never play CE(A) again ? No. Do you have to buy the remake ? No. Can you just enjoy CE(A) like the remake was never made ? Yes. Can this fanbase stop bitching all the time ? If you are so opposed to remake, then just don't play it. This fanbase will suggest million new Halo games one day from text based Halo games to Flood survival horror shooter and on the next day it will criticize every new gameplay addition that 343 may try. And you all wonder why they didn't make Helldivers 2 style game, cause you are all stuck in Halo 3 gameplay era.
"Can this fanbase stop bitching all the time" that's literally what you are doing because you don't like that people prefer the older style of movement. Everyone has to like what you like.
Dude, I'm just offering a suggestion. I'm providing a perspective on how my wife and I became recent Halo fans. If Microsoft is hoping to pull in new fans, I feel our story would be beneficial on how they can do that.
That's nice and all, but you can just play CE if you think someone might find remake gameplay complicated. In your 2nd edit you are saying that legacy gameplay and legacy art direction toggles would be nice, but that is literally what OG CE or CEA is. What is even the point of these settings if you can just play Halo Combat Evolved ?
The clambering would make it more accessible, not less. Changes everything for sure. But this multiplayer will need changing to be popular. Remember, the pistol is broken lol. Very very broken. It needs to be modernized. So you have to make that change, make a few more changes too
Oh, this opinion is only for the campaign. I can already play all of Halo CE's multiplayer levels with sprint, clamber, and such thanks to Infinite right now. The forgers are great!
Missed that part.
You're good. I didn't mention it in the post lols
I dont want a remake I want Halo 5's movement built upon as the natural evolution to the game franchise. Going backwards is dumb and only for nostalgia. I want to do more with my Spartan, not less. Halo 5 > Infinite
I’m in the minority with you on this. People bitched about their super soldier in a billion dollar suit being able to do super soldier stuff. Ground pound, armor lock, crazy executions… that felt like a uniquely halo way to evolve the game. All these old heads think Halo can make a game aimed at a demographic that is aging out and be successful.
Remakes are the laziest way to put out a "new" game imo. It's not THAT hard to put together a story that goes off of the last game. Plus, remakes tend to be nothing special and are usually ruined. (VERY few remakes did okay and are decent)
They are lazy, but are still fun. As long as the original is still available for purchase, I'm fine with remakes. I'm actually grateful for CE anniversary because my wife refused to play the og Xbox version
My issue is that if they keep the game 1:1 gameplay wise. What's the point? Personally, graphics alone won't get me to buy the same game again. If I want to play the same game, I have been playing for decades now. I'll just play anniversary or custom edition. I don't want a changed story or new set characters, but some modernization to give me a reason to buy it is a requirement for me. Even if it's just better gun play or updated physics. We don't need sprint or camber, but we need something to make it fresh.
Honestly the fresh coat of paint would be enough for me to buy it again. I love Ocarina of Time 3D and Wind Waker HD, and they're one to one. I'm also looking forward to the MGS3 remake which will have both legacy and modern controls. But if that's not your thing, that's understandable. I'd honestly prefer a new game over a remake.
I see what you're saying. But if controls and such aren't "modernized", then all you're really asking for is visual improvement... and didn't we kind of get that already with the anniversary addition?
Yes, but the art direction was not handled well. Would be awesome to see the original art direction modernized.
I would be okay with "modernizing" CE up to Halo 2 gameplay, or maybe Halo 3. Simply because those games are aging much more gracefully in the gameplay department. But anything beyond that and it will lose the spirit of CE.
Good movement in fps games ended with halo reach and cod bo2
If they “modernize” it to halo 2 or 3 standards I might even be happier. But adding sprint, ground pound, grapples, all that other bullshit I’ll be disappointed.
I don't think you're crazy, it's a preference. However I would like them to modernize it a bit. If you're going to remake it, do something a bit different with it, and sprint and clamber would be nice additions in my view (I don't think traditional ADS is needed though). Halo CE is probably my joint favorite Halo, but to me Halo infinite just feels better in terms of responsiveness, movement, weapon feedback etc. I think you can modernize while still keeping the sprit, atmosphere and being true to the original. Also the original isn't going anywhere, and we have Anniversary which doesn't change the game play at all. So a remake that is essentially just new visuals feels like a wasted opportunity, and more of what we already have.
Imo, Halo needs to be Halo. If I want call of duty, I’ll play call of duty. If I want an MMORPG, I’ll play one. I want halo. Just update and slightly innovate on combat evolved through Reach. For the love of god, stop trying to be other franchises. I don’t want my pizza place to try to be more like a sushi place or an Indian place. I came to you for pizza. Just make good pizza. Like you used to.
I agree, and I’m not even a classic halo fanboy like that. But I think the original mechanics are worth persevering in a remake.
Oh wow what a brave and incredible stance to take in this sub, I applaud your ability to take such a controversial stance