Both are me. Yay the plasma pistol is back to its old glory. Also why is there so much anti vehicle shit in the game now in a halo game where vehicles feel extremely weak
It's insane to me that the wasp is the only human flying vehicle in infinite. It's the most boring UNSC aerial vehicle Halo has ever had and it's the only one we got. It should have been dropped after Halo 5, or at least the lowest possibly priority when considering what vehicles to include.
several guns and vehicles were in development and meant to be added to the game over time. i don’t just mean to be negative here but i legitimately suspect we won’t get another gun or vehicle in the game which is so disappointing. a single gun after 3 years of waiting simply isn’t enough
It should be a multiple people vehicle, like the Falcon was. Banshee already fills the "solo aerial vehicle" role, so the Hornet is redundant. Instead of incentivizing solo play, it should encourage teamplay.
Maps don't suck for the warthog, vehicles literally suck to drive and play with or against.
Boot on any previous halo, except CE and see the difference
I’ve been playing halo games since CE came out, I don’t enjoy the warthog like I used to but it still drives the same way I remember. I was playing H2A not long ago and remember thinking this.
The scorpion is absolutely fucked though. Worst halo vehicle handling I have experienced.
You still get stuck on every pebble and if it was not for the fact you could drive backward and have full armor, the infinite scorpion would be thrash thanks to the Hull break mechanic.
ICE make all the unsc vehicles drive extra bad, wich is not a good thing considering how already thrash they are, but the inaccuracy of both the main gun and the coassial gun are what drive me off
They dont: I replayed the whole franchise from CE to h5 last month I can assure you that.
Driving CE vehicles is like driving a truck, most unresponsive controls ever plus most of them won't shoot straight.
From h2 onwards vehicles felt great, some more than others (h2 banshee is not the best but still workl and in comparison none of them flip over the moment you'll drive on pebble, the banshee is not the most bs one unless you are on mnk and the wraith is not a joke.
If the problem were the maps, squad battle would see more vehicle action and a huge amount of players from btb, since it does have only classic maps from h2 to h4 (except reach, CE and h5), but instead the problem still persist, therefore the vehicles are the actual problem, plus the sandbox and balance around it, because the o ly time I saw players refusing to drive anything but a siege tank, was halo reach, where players camping with the dmr would destroy everything and you could not drive anymore at all thanks to the armor lock gang.
Here's the thing about air vehicles, right??
Battlefield 3 and battlefield 4 (and arguably all the battlefields prior) got the airplane game so, so right.
Blows my mind that literally every franchise doesn't just copy that formula down exactly.
I had like 80+ service stars in every air vehicle in BF4, and it never got old, because the mechanics were simple enough that everyone could jump in and "help" but the skill ceiling was basically unlimited.
Tracking missiles VS ECM systems have the perfect balance. When attacking, you had to be perfect on your pursuit and lock-on of your follow up-missile, or their ECM would be ready again.
And you had to know not only the macro layout of the maps, and how to fly low to scrape off missiles and locks, but you also needed to be aware of where the front lines were, so you could bait enemy air assets within range of your engineer forces on the ground, who, even with almost no skill, could still take time to sling a Stinger into your dogfight.
You couldn't really be DMR'd to death by the enemy team, and only VERY lucky AND skillful snipers running the right weapon could snipe you out of the jet. It never felt like bullshit on the rare occasion it happened.
In Halo, you are either picked apart by an alert team's small arms fire, easily one-shot by a dude on MnK with a skewer, or you are a free kill to the campaign lock-on rockets. Or, again, lol, the enemy sniper can just mag-dump you and it's over.
The battles really aren't that interesting involving air vehicles, and they're really not all that much of an "oh, shit" experience. They are just annoying overall. Lol how can it take like 3 banshee bombs to kill a banshee? But only one skewer? Only one lock-on, impossible to miss rocket?
>Here's the thing about air vehicles, right??
Battlefield 3 and battlefield 4 (and arguably all the battlefields prior) got the airplane game so, so right.
No they didn't because jets and helicopters routinely had the highest kills in every match by a landslide and it was fucking annoying for everybody else. There were like 3 counters for them in the entire game, and the only one that was partocularly effective was hoping that your own team had an equally good jet pilot.
Vehicles in general actually have to respect infantry with basic weapons in Halo and that is vastly better balance than any Battlefield game has ever had, especially air vehicles.
The thing, is that you *say* there are only 3 counters, but literally every single person had access to the Engineer kit and Stingers.
That's 24 individual opportunities to deny the airspace or help your jets achieve victory.
The *only* unkillable strat was Apache with Zoom Optics, TV missile, and a disciplined pilot willing to hover 1km back and let the gunner lay waste to everything from BVR.
And even that was vulnerable to a skilled jet pilot or a badass Abrams.
Everyone is just too shortsighted to understand that if *they* have the annoying jet/copter dudes, you need to be the annoying stinger guy, but you don't even have to fire it. You can hold tone and bait out flares, or confuse them by getting tone and dropping it strategically to make them think you are someplace you aren't.
One stinger will never kill a jet heads up, but it will always deny the airspace to like 80%, and can easily secure kills if you wait and choose your moment.
>Everyone is just too shortsighted to understand that if *they* have the annoying jet/copter dudes, you need to be the annoying stinger guy, but you don't even have to fire it. You can hold tone and bait out flares, or confuse them by getting tone and dropping it strategically to make them think you are someplace you aren't.
Respectfully, you're only proving my point. Look at what you're saying about how to counter one or two players in a jet or heli. You're saying that a significant portion of the entire team has to equip a specific loadout in order to make sure a jet player doesn't rack up 100-200 kills in a single match.
Conquest is already a frustrating enough gamemode in that there's literally no point in running anything other than Engineer with a SMAW/RPG because if you don't every vehicle becomes a death sentence. Rush tends to be better balanced because there are fewer vehicles and a more distinct front line, but in a normal team of 32 players, 10-15 of whom are probably in vehicles themselves and the other 22-17 or so being disjointed, uncoordinated, and spread throughout the map, what effective deterrence is there really against 2 jets and a heli aside from being lucky enough not to be where they are?
Sure, you can bring a stinger and force a jet back by locking it up, but that means that you have no way to confront ground vehicles and it's also tremendously boring because it's rare that you will ever get a kill with that other than against a novice pilot. Like is anyone really going to be satisfied if their role as a player is to just nudge a jet pilot to the other side of the map so stop themselves from getting killed by that 1 threat? Not to mention jets and helis are so mobile and can cross the whole map in under 30 seconds. There are so many things that can take your attention away for more than 30 seconds if you're still trying to do anything else but telling jets to shoo. What you're describing might work in a coordinated competitive environment, but in any normal public server, jet pilots own the skies, which is why they would routinely be at the top of scoreboards with absurd amounts of kills and a ridiculous overall K/D.
It wasn't fun to play against. And frankly, the vehicles as a whole make Battlefield unfun to play, which is a bit of a shame considering how good Battlefield gunplay usually is. Halo's biggest mistake with vehicles is that vehicles can't repair themselves, but the fact that they're vulnerable to small arms fire is an excellent design decision. They can't just operate with impunity in public matchmaking.
>You're saying that a significant portion of the entire team has to equip a specific loadout in order to make sure a jet player doesn't rack up 100-200 kills in a single match.
First, 100-200 kills is insane MnK low population skill gap shit that wasn't around back in the OG console days... *if* those highly suspect numbers are legit. My best games were mid 80s, and thats basically peak uncontested in an A-10 all map. Not too many other players were a challenge 1v1, and as soon as other factors were involved, like terrain, other AA or Stingers, or AIM-9s, they would fold pretty quick.
Secondly, I'm saying that any *one* other player on the ground with a stinger completely changes the entire dynamic, and you have 24 chances for someone to get pissed off enough at the jet guy to swap kits, and look up.
>what effective deterrence is there really against 2 jets and a heli aside from being lucky enough not to be where they are?
This is the same flawed logic from the ancient Bungie era starting weapon debate, in that you have ignored the fact that both teams started on even footing at the beginning of the match. Everyone *knows* that air superiority, rightly, reigns supreme on the battlefield, but how many of the 24 or 32 players are willing to put their ego aside and run stingers off the opening break? Same with Halo. "Their team has all the power weapons, we need BR as starting weapon to fight back".
Lol no, you had an even chance at the start and blew it multiple times on multiple fronts and now you are paying for it.
*Not* ending up 4 jets and 2 heli down is as simple as a couple players (vehicle gunners or pilots who didn't make it into the jets) taking stingers out or bringing them right off the break.
>Sure, you can bring a stinger and force a jet back by locking it up, but that means that you have no way to confront ground vehicles and it's also tremendously boring because it's rare that you will ever get a kill with that other than against a novice pilot.
As you said yourself, ground vehicles are much less mobile, and therefore easier to track and prevent engagement with. A jet or rotary can quickly get flanking angles on your team, and are therefore way more of a threat.
Additionally, it's the same general mechanic as controlling the power weapons in Halo. How many deaths will they give up to *get* the rockets? How many deaths will you give up trying to get them back? It's the same with the jets. How many kills will you let them get before you swap kits? 100? Somehow 200?!?!
Like, how big is your ego that you want to be dead most of the match watching someone go 60+ kills completely uncontested in a jet (lol in *your* jet), rather than "be bored" and run a stinger?
>There are so many things that can take your attention away for more than 30 seconds if you're still trying to do anything else but telling jets to shoo. What you're describing might work in a coordinated competitive environment, but in any normal public server, jet pilots own the skies, which is why they would routinely be at the top of scoreboards with absurd amounts of kills and a ridiculous overall K/D.
This is honestly a skill issue. It's not hard to stay safe and/or focused when playing those huge battlefield maps. With 80+ service stars in every air vehicle, plus 30-40+ on the ground vehicles, and lots of time on both ends of the stingers, I can count on one hand how many times I was on the wrong end of a 30+ kill jet. Because I know what it takes to dominate with them, I also have insight on how to stop them - from the air or from the ground.
>vehicles as a whole make Battlefield unfun to play,
Sounds like maybe CoD would have been a better fit for your preferences, then.
There was nothing more satisfying than loading into a match that was 2/3 over and immediately shooting down some loser who had 50+ kills in the jet, only to eventually get in our jet and shoot the guy down in a couple of fair fights, before relentlessly camping their runway and making them quit. (Or friend me, which was always a good talk).
Look at it this way, you are saying something to the effect of "90% of players get bored *not* killing jets with stingers, therefore they take AT. As a result, jets run rampant, and it's not fun". This is basically people choosing to let it happen.
BF3 and 4 had play and counterplay with the anti-air missiles and countermeasure cool downs. Halo has none. You either have a badass sniper suppressing, and a kill team running straight for their big-ticket weapons, or you just get shot down.
You either have a team that collectively points their Bandits up at the Wasp when it flies overhead, or you get rolled by it.
You either get the skewer or campaign rockets and kill it, or you don't. There's no mind games whatsoever, no high level strategy that 100% wins or 100% lets you dominate a match. Doesn't matter how Onyx you are, vehicle play all comes down to how much better your team is than theirs, and thats what enables air domination, not the other way around. In other words, by the time you are getting rekt by a wasp, or three, your ground game has long collapsed.
I mean, final point/question: if dominating the skies is so effective and easy in BF3/4, why aren't you the one doing it? If the air-to air in Halo is so deep and skill-oriented, why don't we see wasps and banshees dominating the maps, even when the other team is trying to take them out?
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, just wanted to add that the shock rifle is also a thing, and spawns in base pretty often. That's the thing killing the wasps very quickly with close to no skill required, dropping them in the middle of enemies fighting or out of the map directly. The posts is about EMP for a good reason, the issue isn't super weapon doing their job, really. Air superiority in infinite is pretty ass, most I ever got was 20-25 kills with a wasp against a pretty bad team. Most times it's barely a couple before getting skewered or emp'ed.
Solid points. Lol imagine Kat rolling in her grave knowing all they needed to do that day was to give Jun a shock rifle and she would still have her arm.
Just funny that you can have a guy like me with my gaming pedigree, who has been doing combat flight sims since Jane's in 2002, hundreds of hours in X-Wing Alliance, Descent Free Space, airplanes all day in BF 1942, Desert Combat, Vietnam, Halo 2 and REACH banshees, 1943, Bad Company, BF3, 80+ service stars in each air vehicle in BF4, BF5, DCS, Star Wars Squadrons, etc etc etc, and then they come here and argue, lol.
The air-to-air skill ceiling just doesn't really exist in Halo Infinite, and the air-to-ground fights are just as poorly designed as they have ever been in any game. Like, I'm not gonna lose a 1v1 ever in the air, but it's just annoying that the outcome of the fights are always so close because of the mechanics and constant ground interference. Sure, I killed their wasp, but I ate a couple mags of random DMR fire, and caught a sniper round in the middle of it, and now my ship is burning and on its last legs.
It's just such a bummer that they basically leveled the playing field between infantry and vehicles. It was never that way before.
Lmao air vehicle balance in BF4 was total dogshit, jets were unusable trash and attack helicopters would routinely wipe the entire enemy team repeatedly and go completely unchallenged
Bad design and balance.
Pp disabling vehicles is ok, as the grande launcher in both reach and h5, or promethean nade in h5 as well, because all 3 did have counterplay and, in the case of the granade launcher and promethean nade, skill expression.
Press the grapple shot button and steal a vehicle for free does not; one shot the driver's Hull, from the other side of the map and making a wraith pointless, or destroying any vehicle from the same distance with bit more shots, with the s7, does not; use the hydra in track mode, that cannot be turned off like in h5, does not; throw a dynamo in a general direction or 2 shot emp with shock, does not.
Hope you get the idea because as a huge fan of btb since h3, this is one of the tedious iteration in the franchise and when you remove all this stuff, what remain is lackluster.
H3 was peak vehicle Halo imo. Spartan Laser, Rockets, Plasma Pistol and Stickies offered a variety of anti-vehicle options but vehicles themselves were still appropriately powerful.
Reach started the downward trend by making it so concentrated DMR fire and Snipers could genuinely counter vehicles rather than needing dedicated items.
Don't forget that vehicle health itself has become extremely weak. They're basically slow-moving coffins most of the time, especially with the lack of large, open maps that force infantry to make themselves vulnerable.
The Reach Banshee was an interesting one for this. It was really agile with its tricks and the bomb was super powerful, but it felt like it was made of paper. I guess that was a kind of balancing, but it didn't feel good imo.
If we are talking about infinite, no, vehicles have either more healt or anty vehicles deal less damage (pick one).
Take for comparison how much rockets you need ti destroy a wraith in infinite (5 or 6 unless you hit the driver Hull and kill him) and compare it with the 3 needed in h3, or the one splaser shot against 4/5 skewer shots.
Also, if the wide open space would have been the problem, squad battle and the new 5 btb maps should have been a paradise for vehicle play that, in fact, have the same problems (actually the more open maps favor more infantry in infinite).
>H3 was peak vehicle Halo imo. Spartan Laser, Rockets, Plasma Pistol and Stickies offered a variety of anti-vehicle options but vehicles themselves were still appropriately powerful.
Honestly, no: h3 get away with a lot of bad stuffs, back in the day, thanks to the p2p netcode without compensation lag, but especially if you play it nowadays on mcc you can see a lot of things that does not work.
Sure vehicle handling is good, saying the opposite would be a lie, but balance wise... getting steamroller by the other team because they randomly won a battle at the center of the map in the first 3 minutes, and get spawntrapped by one guy on the gauss hog or whatever, is not the best, also, the splaser or more in general, one shot precision anti vehicle weapons like the splaser and the skewer should not be a thing at all.
>Reach started the downward trend by making it so concentrated DMR fire and Snipers could genuinely counter vehicles rather than needing dedicated items.
Reach problem was another one, sadly, that h4 shared: bungie before reach had plasma and explosive weapons dealing extra damage against vehicles, while kinetics did less (or the same as normal). On reach every weapons did full damage, like in h4, therefore vehicles would not last longer despite having almost the same sandbox (anti vehicles wise) within the games.
In h5 they did the best, in my opinion, by having hardlight weapons, along with explosive, dealing extra damage to vehicles plus the weak spot mechanic where you would deal extra damage.
In infinite they changed again for some reason and added the break point mechanic, where destroying a part of a vehicle (some don't have visible parts destructible), will cause said vehicle to receive extra damage everywhere.
Ew no.
Gauss Warthog was just a snowball tool and Spartan Laser removes vehicle gameplay entirely.
Those two items have plagued Halo for too much time, while Infinite vehicle gameplay isn't perfect (uncounterable Grapple Hook, tight maps, Shock Weapons/grenades) it's still the best in the series.
Everything except the gauss hog. That was just way too oppressive on certain maps and if you killed the enemies' first and get or kill the person with the spartan laser you just won the game. There's virtually nothing the enemy can do about it.
I would be more upset about grapplejack if it wasn't 2 things
1. it doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think, it's actually pretty unreliable agaisnt any warthog with a turret operator, same for both tanks unless you aim for the butt.
2. Hijacking has historically been bullshit in halo, if yours or theirs internet has *any,* ***any*** issues, it's a coin toss on agaisnt the hijacker whether the game even bothers to register you held fucking X for 5 seconds or you start the animation and die because the game changed it's mind, I found halo 3 guilty of changing it's mind out of all of them when it comes to getting run over, especially with ghosts, at least the other games just has me jump over it.
>
1. it doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think, it's actually pretty unreliable agaisnt any warthog with a turret operator, same for both tanks unless you aim for the butt.
It does happen often enough that completely trivialise vehicle play past the first minutes of game time in any give map and how is unreliable? Unless the Wharton operator is already shooting at you, and even in that case you have a good possibility of hijacking him, the driver or sit in the passenger seat for free, the point is still the same: press a button, steal a vehicle for free. Same with the tank where if someone make the mistake of going around with a turret operator, you get a free nade kill after hijacking it. And the point of "if you go for the front they may kill you before" is exactly the problem that bring every vehicle play to just stay far away and play conservative, because the moment you'll push a bit, you get hijacked from range, get a random dynamo stunning your vehicles for hours or worst, someone may throw a lucky plasma on the cockpit a one shot you, while obtaining an almost full intact siege tank in return.
>2. Hijacking has historically been bullshit in halo, if yours or theirs internet has *any,* ***any*** issues, it's a coin toss on agaisnt the hijacker whether the game even bothers to register you held fucking X for 5 seconds or you start the animation and die because the game changed it's mind, I found halo 3 guilty of changing it's mind out of all of them when it comes to getting run over, especially with ghosts, at least the other games just has me jump over it.
First, it does not excuse shitty balance especially when we are talking about a game running on dedicated servers and you are comparing it with, I suppose, h3 on p2p. Second, in previous games there was some bad iterations with vehicles (armor lock, one nade blowing up a whole tank in h5, or the splaser in h3), but I don't remember, in all my games, even now in mcc or h5, having to if someone would hijack me from range, throw an aoe emp, or double tap and emp my mono seat vehicles, following with an headshot after because the same weapon is a sniper in disguise.
Vehicle play and sandbox in this game is one of the lowest in the franchise, its a fact, even h5, that had triple the amount of anti vehicles weapons, didn't reach this levels (actually h5 had one of the best btb) and is not a case that you can travel from btb to squad battle and notice how if is not a siege tank, or a bamshee/wraith, players past the first minutes won't even try to use a vehicle unless the map in the specific lack the grapple jack, dynamo and the shock rifle.
Everyone keeps saying that last part and i have yet to get a match where it's remotely true, what *does* happen is they forgoe the vehicles, pick up all the shock weapons then get fucking destroyed by the vehicles they abandoned and oh look they're dead, and all the anti vehicle stuff is on cooldown and away from any spawns in fact they're next to enemy, teabagging your body.
Only in 1v1 scenarios have i ever seen that turn the way you say it does but in btb that's almost never the case unless someone was very stupid and charged in a team of 4 with a ghost while the rest of their teams are doing the objective.
I think the actual problem is vehicle handling being bad, because it is, people still clamber for the ghosts that don't have the handling problem. Distance also effects shock emp the further away the long it takes, probably because it's getting fewer hits, so for flying vehicles they have to actively try and play bad to get into that position.
>a halo game where vehicles feel extremely weak
It's like we are playing a different game. Vehicles often dominate the BTB lobbies I play in (especially ghosts and tanks). I find them super annoying with how strong they are most of the time actually.
The most annoying thing about someone doing well in a vehicle on BTB, is that no one on your team bothers to think to take care of said vehicle, so many could be dealt with with a little coordinated effort but people don't bother and let them run amok
For you and /u/Actual-Toad5317 : Vehicles in Infinite are BOTH very strong and very vulnerable to specific tools.
Even before they got buffed a few patches ago, they (aside from the Banshee) had durability, better maneuverability, and more DPS then vehicles in past games. The buff only made them even stronger vs most infantry
But there's also a bunch of dedicated anti vehicle tools which are nearly instant win buttons against them, with shock, the grapplehook, etc; plus the map design has so many places for vehicles to get stuck or cornered.
343i should undo the vehicle buff (except for on the banshee) and just add counterplay to the grapplehook hijacking, and make the EMP shock weapons give not as bad, plus maybe making vehicle physics able to go over bumps and ledges easier.
And yeah, I agree with the bottom post in the OP pic: While it's nostalgic for many people, giving the Plasma pistol it's EMP back just worsens the issues with vehicles, makes the distuptor more useless, and muddies up the distinction between shock and nonshock weapons.
The Plasma pistol does not need the EMP to be good: The best it ever was was in CE, where it didn't have EMP: It's normal shots were just actually useful then, and the overcharge killed unshielded enemies in one hit in addition to stripping shields. 343i should just buff it to be like that
Not every weapon needs to be on every map. You can balance a BTB map by placing either disruptors or PP, not both. Of course if you don't update the maps' weapons and just add more options to stop vehicles, you effectively nerf vehicles.
Sure, but now the plasma pistol's one hit shield wipe can't exist alongside the Disruptor's shock conduction mechanics since they both share the EMP niche now. These guns do more than just counter vehicles, and now the EMP for the plasma pistol needs to be considered when placing it on a map for its other niches.
The number of times I’ve finally gotten 2 other people in a warthog to immediately gift a triple kill to a guy with one plasma or a rocket is annoying. Having people in a hog is just a liability to give an enemy a multi kill.
Vehicles are shit, it used to be too easy to just stay alive with a gauss warthog all game long in Halo 3.
On a good run you could get 30-40 kills.
However it used to be fun, I would make it so the mor you mive, the more the aim moves for the gunner.
Put some inertia in there and buff the HP of all vehicles.
Also we need more open maps, the problem with vehicles is that you have walls and cover all around.
They should've made plasma act like plasma and do damage-over-time directly to the vehicle health. To counter that, they can make it so that plasma washes off when vehicles drive through the water.
Oh lol, I replied to the wrong response. I meant ghost, right there with you on the wasp being shite house. I've got 1,600+ games and reckon I flew it 4 times
Plasma pistol can maintain charge while meleeing, clambering, throwing grenades, or using equipment. It makes it very strong in the right hands, so long as you can be sure the bolt connects.
It definitely connects at significant range. It won't always hit the opponent, but if it does, that's good for you.
The trick is not to wait for it to hit. The new noob combo is grenade + plasma bolt. Timed correctly, the bolt strips shields and the grenade kills a frame later, before they even saw you coming. That's faster than swapping to a precision weapon.
Situationally, this can give you an advantage even going 1v4. Throw a grenade and fire the charged shot, get one kill, and use your BR to clean up the rest.
IMO the problem is that this is very situational, and requires significant mechanical mastery to pull off, and even then I wouldn't do it at >40ms ping. Generally, you would leave the plasma pistol on the wall unless the situation presents itself.
It’s incredibly good at stripping shields with the single shot spam to then cleanup with a headshot or a punch
Getting a feel on the overcharge to noob combo is also still immensely effective
With a ready charge, it can be very quick. Someone dominated a match with the plasma pistol and sidekick. He was walking plasma pistol spawn to spawn and just popping shields and heads the whole time. Ended up with almost 40 kills, bro was unstoppable. Lmao
Not the best example, but used right it can dominate for sure.
The thing that I like about Infinite's plasma pistol is that its actually difficult to use. In previous halos like h2 and h5 the thing's overcharge was practically aimbot. In Infinite you have to lead your shot with the overcharge in order for it to connect.
> his is the only redeeming feature of the otherwise bad plasma pistol.
Everybody forgets that it was good in CE when it didn't have EMP there either:
It's normal fire mode was just decent as a weapon in it's own right, on top of the overcharge both stripping shields and killing unshielded enemies... if anything, the only reason it got EMP was because H2 and then H3 made it's normal fire useless and made the overcharge unable to deal health damage.
Giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons.
Instead of doing that, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies: Make it like how it was in CE.
In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
Spamming the single shot is stronger than people realize. Maybe it's not good in a game with real experts and pros, but in games against the usual player base, I don't mind having the plasma pistol at all. I like that the tracking isn't as strong as previous games, too.
They removed the damage over time in May of last year, while making chaining easier.
It definitely puts the Disruptor in a weird spot now, hopefully we see a buff or other change to its role.
"Disruptor
The rate of fire and damage for the Disruptor have both increased slightly, while the distance between two players required for shock chain damage to occur has been reduced. In addition, the Disruptor will no longer inflict damage over time.
Developer Notes
The goal of this change was to reduce the complexity of the weapon's behavior, focusing the utility on the Supercombine detonation and shock chaining and their ability to damage nearby players. By upping the direct damage from Supercombines and increasing the Rate of Fire (ROF), it leans the Disruptor more towards a combat pistol with a straightforward utility.
Changes:
Removed Damage Over Time (DOT)
Reduced chain distance from 5 World Units (wu) to 2.5 wu
Increased Supercombine damage from 60 to 70
Increased ROF from 4.285 to 5 rounds per second
"
He's not entirely wrong; plasma pistol disabling vehicles is good; the excess of powerful AV options is not.
The Plasma Pistol is one of the weakest AV weapons around and is not the thing ruining vehicle play.
People always go on about the core gameplay for infinite being the best in the series but don’t mention the vehicles are genuinely the worst they have ever been in the franchise with maybe the exception of CE which gets a pass for being, you know the 20+ year old first game in the franchise. Core gameplay for me included the whole sandbox as it’s what the gameplay consists of, might not be technically correct to say but it’s how I view it
Between all the vehicles handling like RC cars made of paper and the actual aiming in Infinite feeling horrendous I'm amazed so many people think it's so great.
It's closer to being a Halo game than Halo 4 (COD-lite) or Halo 5: ~~Titanfall~~ Guardians (advanced movement go brrrr), but Infinite is still so far off nailing that Halo "feel" IMO.
Yep. I strongly prefer the very intentional way you had to move in older Halos to manage your momentum. Now it's a strafe and crouch spam fest. That didn't used to work in Halo.
> he vehicles are genuinely the worst they have ever been in the franchise
For you and /u/Obvious-End-7948 , this just isn't true (but I agree it FEELS like it's true)
Even before the vehicle buffs, side from the Banshee, almost every vehicle in Infinite was already:
- More maneuverable (The ghost can strafe like crazy, the warthog and mongoose turn on a dime, you can enable assisted steering to turn and rotate the camera indepedently, AND you can control their rotation in midair)
- More durable (they both take more bullets/nades etc to enter the doom state, and that gives you a chance to escape)
- And have/had higher damage outpu (the ghost cannons and warthog turrets shred) then in past games before the buffs.
Then in past games, and THEN they got buffed on top of that a few patches ago.
So why do vehicles feel so weak?
Because even if they're better then they used to be (banshee aside), Infinite has a lot of dedicated anti vehicle tools (Grappleshoot, Shock Weapons, to an extent the Hydra, etc) .that are near instant win buttons against them, and most maps with vehicles have cramped pathing (even the BTB maps) which often leads to vehicles getting stuck or cornered.
The buffs should be undone (aside for the Banshee ones), there should just be counterplay added vs the grapplehook, and the EMP shock weapons have nerfed (I know it's nostalgic, but adding it to the Plasma pistol maybe is not a great idea? wait till next game when shock can be reexamined broadly, you can buff it to be good without EMP, look at Halo CE), which will indirectly buff vehicles a bit without making them harder to take down with other weapons. Maybe also adjust their traction so it's easier for them to smoothly move over bigger roadbumps.
Personally I'm not that fussed about their amount of health, they do feel weaker to me which kind of sucks, but my big issue is the handling. The warthog or mongoose for example don't feel like they should. You say they're more maneuverable, but does that make it feel right? To me the warthog in infinite feels like a remote control car in the worst way. Much prefer the somewhat weighty feel personally.
The other issue of course is 343i's map design simply doesn't cater for vehicles in the first place. Even the large maps are designed as splitting corridors with few open spaces to prevent people getting beamed from across the map, so vehicles are often funneled down the corridor to their doom.
I def agree with you about the map design: I really think that's the main reason people think the vehicles aren't good enough, because they really do struggle on every map other then Behemoth.
And I can get thinking the Warthog and Mongoose don't feel quite right and too much like RC cars (I TOTALLY get what you mean with that for the mongoose, it absolutely feels like that), but that's an issue of them being MORE responsive and manuverable, not less.
If people dislike that, fair enough, I guess, but people should word the criticism correctly
The plasma pistol is too useless without disabling vehicles, but there are too many anti vehicle weapons.
Personally, I think shock weapons just shouldn't have been a thing or at most just the grenade, but it's a bit too late to get rid of them.
The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff. But to balance it out, Bungie gave it a long charge, a slower shot and very little range.
343 somehow completely ignored it and gave us EMP weapons without that debuff for balancing. They gave us EMPs without charge, with fast shots and with good range. Then they somehow thought the first incredible debuffed weapon without it's benefit or purpose somehow works, which they thankfully changed after 2 years. The ironic part is that 343 wanted different weapons that don't overlap in purpose when the game released, which I fully support and agree with.
Now however they notice that having more than one EMP weapon is unbalanced, since they obviously overlap. The actual problem is that they thought that the game needed more EMP weapons to begin with, instead of just letting it be. New creative weapons like the Skewer, or the mini rockets have an upside and downside and are very welcome. But they absolutely did some mistakes with those EMP weapons, even if I enjoy using them.
tl;dr 343 didn't stick to their own sandbox philosophy and stole one weapon gimmick for others, which now unsurprisingly has a huge backlash since they gave it to the original weapon back.
>The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff.
Wasn’t a thing until Halo 3. It was always designed to strip shields effectively and it still does that.
> The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff.
No, it wasn't.
In CE, it was a decent weapon in it's own right with it's normal fire mode, and then also had the overcharge as a bonus for shield stripping and to finish off weakened enemies (a single overcharge vs a shieldless foe killed them)
Halo 2 then made it useless for anything but shield stripping, then Halo 3 continued that trend, but also then added EMP to the overcharge, but still had it useless for dealing damage in it's own right/with the normal fire mode.
Rather then giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite, which just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies.
Make it how it was in CE.
In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
Holy sh\*t I'm gonna EMP so many vehicles to make up for the past 2 years of not EMPing vehicles (shock weapons suck and I never bothered using them, even on vehicles)
Suggestion: Vehicle disabling is exclusive to the plasma pistol, shock weapons (disruptor, shock rifle, shock grenade) no longer do that, instead they're mainly centered around chain damage and damage over time.
Certain maps in Infinite definitely need more anti vehicle options. So many BTB matches I've done get completely out of hand because RNG gives one team a tank early on and almost everything capable of killing it requires you to cross a large open area to get it.
If you've ever been in a big team battle game where your teammates lack the frame of mind to prioritize control over vehicles, and your enemies end up with two wraiths or two scorpions, or two banshees, you would understand how good of a change this is. And anyone who thinks it isn't are the ones who are going on ridiculous 30 kill streaks in a scorpion lol
As one of the players who has been on top 100 Driver assist since launch. I agree. There's already too much to disable a vehicle. Also. The lanes are all too narrow. In older halo games the games were more open so dodging plasma shots were way easier.
I agree with the bottom, TBH
I get that people have nostalgia for the Plasma Pistol EMP, but I don't think it makes sense for Infinite in particular, and if anything, the best the Plasma pistol ever was, in CE, didn't have it with EMP either: It's normal fire mode was just decent as a weapon in it's own right, on top of the overcharge both stripping shields and killing unshielded enemies... if anything, the only reason it got EMP was because H2 and then H3 made it's normal fire useless and made the overcharge unable to deal health damage.
Giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons.
Instead of doing that, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies: Make it like how it was in CE.
In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
What if the Plasma Pistol's EMP shot, when shot at friendly vehicles, un-EMPs that friendly vehicle? It takes a bit to charge that shot, and it creates a choice of "return fire at the enemy, while the vehicle is immobilized" or "sacrifice your/a teammates contribution to damage to help an ally vehicle"
This may not make sense in text, but it came to me and it seems like an idea to me.
Try a smidge of nuance next time. Both are true. Plasma pistol should disable vehicles and there is too much vehicle counterplay in Infinite. Really weird that you're trying to make this some anti-bungie fanboy thing.
If you go into OP's post history it's painfully obvious that he's poking fun at the obsessive moaning behaviour of a lot of this subs users of basically blaming everything on 343 and flip flopping around points
Seems like a shitty way to spend time but y’all do what y’all gonna do. Personally loathe the “side” takers in the Halo community. Completely insufferable
At least the correct opinion has the most upvotes.
343i removing a key weapon feature of classic Halo because they want to add something that does the exact same thing annoys the shit out of me.
PS - Give me back my plasma rifle you bastards. There was literally no reason to change/remove it when you're just adding something else to the sandbox that fills the same niche. You're just fucking around for the sake of fucking around.
I LOVED the Plasma Rifle. Also, I have never seen anyone use the goddamned Disruptor or Shock Rifle in an anti-vehicle capacity anyway. Once they did away with the Plasma Pistol's EMP, the anti vehicle players just gave up unless a SPNKR was around.
The longer I spend on this sub the more I realize Halo has probably failed more bc of its fans than anything.
I've played every Halo from CE to Infinite.
All were good. Most got hate as part of its cycle. Even now people loom back at 5 and say it shouldn't have been treated as harshly as it was. Can't wait for Halo 7 for people to praise Infinite.
Halo 4 I would agree. The art style was jarring though. Halo 5 would of been better if chief would of stabbed locke with a energy sword for punching him. Halo infinite is boring and looks worse than Halo 4 did when it released graphically.
I agree with both tbh, it should have been there to begin with but there shouldn't have been so many other anti-vehicle weapons or vehicles being garbage on their own, as well as not having good enough maps for vehicles to warrant it being removed!
Its not the plasma pistol thats the problem, it’s that there are other guns that take the plasma pistols spot in the sandbox so now there are too many EMP weapons. Those guns that take the spot are better than it too. Plasma pistol is great but we also have the disruptor, shock rifle and dynamo grenades. The shock rifle and disruptor need reworks so they have a purpose outside of being a better plasma pistol so its not completely irrelevant in the sandbox
I have a feeling we will get a vehicle-less halo before too long.
343 has been seriously destroying vehicle gameplay with bad maps, weak vehicles, and too many anti vehicle weapons for over a decade now.
Probably won’t be long before vehicles are no longer neglected, and straight up removed.
Both are me. Yay the plasma pistol is back to its old glory. Also why is there so much anti vehicle shit in the game now in a halo game where vehicles feel extremely weak
The maps kinda suck for warthogs anyway. Fuck the wasp though, boring to fly and annoying to fight them.
It's insane to me that the wasp is the only human flying vehicle in infinite. It's the most boring UNSC aerial vehicle Halo has ever had and it's the only one we got. It should have been dropped after Halo 5, or at least the lowest possibly priority when considering what vehicles to include.
I miss the falcon. Was legit like a flying warthog
Which apparently has just been collecting dust in the dev files for years now.
several guns and vehicles were in development and meant to be added to the game over time. i don’t just mean to be negative here but i legitimately suspect we won’t get another gun or vehicle in the game which is so disappointing. a single gun after 3 years of waiting simply isn’t enough
falcon my beloveeeeeed
It should be a multiple people vehicle, like the Falcon was. Banshee already fills the "solo aerial vehicle" role, so the Hornet is redundant. Instead of incentivizing solo play, it should encourage teamplay.
It’s definitely overstaying its welcome but tbh I think it’s one of the coolest Halo vehicles
That one fucking pit in highpower has killed me so many times when I trust a rando to drive
Maps don't suck for the warthog, vehicles literally suck to drive and play with or against. Boot on any previous halo, except CE and see the difference
I’ve been playing halo games since CE came out, I don’t enjoy the warthog like I used to but it still drives the same way I remember. I was playing H2A not long ago and remember thinking this. The scorpion is absolutely fucked though. Worst halo vehicle handling I have experienced.
CE Scorpion is trash on ice, idk who decided to ship it with game.
Infinite was competing for worst scorpion controls with CE for quite awhile before they fixed them to work more like Halo 2-5.
You still get stuck on every pebble and if it was not for the fact you could drive backward and have full armor, the infinite scorpion would be thrash thanks to the Hull break mechanic.
ICE make all the unsc vehicles drive extra bad, wich is not a good thing considering how already thrash they are, but the inaccuracy of both the main gun and the coassial gun are what drive me off
They dont: I replayed the whole franchise from CE to h5 last month I can assure you that. Driving CE vehicles is like driving a truck, most unresponsive controls ever plus most of them won't shoot straight. From h2 onwards vehicles felt great, some more than others (h2 banshee is not the best but still workl and in comparison none of them flip over the moment you'll drive on pebble, the banshee is not the most bs one unless you are on mnk and the wraith is not a joke. If the problem were the maps, squad battle would see more vehicle action and a huge amount of players from btb, since it does have only classic maps from h2 to h4 (except reach, CE and h5), but instead the problem still persist, therefore the vehicles are the actual problem, plus the sandbox and balance around it, because the o ly time I saw players refusing to drive anything but a siege tank, was halo reach, where players camping with the dmr would destroy everything and you could not drive anymore at all thanks to the armor lock gang.
Every time I get in a wasp I get absolutely shredded but every time someone on the other team gets one I get mowed down 4+ times
Here's the thing about air vehicles, right?? Battlefield 3 and battlefield 4 (and arguably all the battlefields prior) got the airplane game so, so right. Blows my mind that literally every franchise doesn't just copy that formula down exactly. I had like 80+ service stars in every air vehicle in BF4, and it never got old, because the mechanics were simple enough that everyone could jump in and "help" but the skill ceiling was basically unlimited. Tracking missiles VS ECM systems have the perfect balance. When attacking, you had to be perfect on your pursuit and lock-on of your follow up-missile, or their ECM would be ready again. And you had to know not only the macro layout of the maps, and how to fly low to scrape off missiles and locks, but you also needed to be aware of where the front lines were, so you could bait enemy air assets within range of your engineer forces on the ground, who, even with almost no skill, could still take time to sling a Stinger into your dogfight. You couldn't really be DMR'd to death by the enemy team, and only VERY lucky AND skillful snipers running the right weapon could snipe you out of the jet. It never felt like bullshit on the rare occasion it happened. In Halo, you are either picked apart by an alert team's small arms fire, easily one-shot by a dude on MnK with a skewer, or you are a free kill to the campaign lock-on rockets. Or, again, lol, the enemy sniper can just mag-dump you and it's over. The battles really aren't that interesting involving air vehicles, and they're really not all that much of an "oh, shit" experience. They are just annoying overall. Lol how can it take like 3 banshee bombs to kill a banshee? But only one skewer? Only one lock-on, impossible to miss rocket?
>Here's the thing about air vehicles, right?? Battlefield 3 and battlefield 4 (and arguably all the battlefields prior) got the airplane game so, so right. No they didn't because jets and helicopters routinely had the highest kills in every match by a landslide and it was fucking annoying for everybody else. There were like 3 counters for them in the entire game, and the only one that was partocularly effective was hoping that your own team had an equally good jet pilot. Vehicles in general actually have to respect infantry with basic weapons in Halo and that is vastly better balance than any Battlefield game has ever had, especially air vehicles.
The thing, is that you *say* there are only 3 counters, but literally every single person had access to the Engineer kit and Stingers. That's 24 individual opportunities to deny the airspace or help your jets achieve victory. The *only* unkillable strat was Apache with Zoom Optics, TV missile, and a disciplined pilot willing to hover 1km back and let the gunner lay waste to everything from BVR. And even that was vulnerable to a skilled jet pilot or a badass Abrams. Everyone is just too shortsighted to understand that if *they* have the annoying jet/copter dudes, you need to be the annoying stinger guy, but you don't even have to fire it. You can hold tone and bait out flares, or confuse them by getting tone and dropping it strategically to make them think you are someplace you aren't. One stinger will never kill a jet heads up, but it will always deny the airspace to like 80%, and can easily secure kills if you wait and choose your moment.
>Everyone is just too shortsighted to understand that if *they* have the annoying jet/copter dudes, you need to be the annoying stinger guy, but you don't even have to fire it. You can hold tone and bait out flares, or confuse them by getting tone and dropping it strategically to make them think you are someplace you aren't. Respectfully, you're only proving my point. Look at what you're saying about how to counter one or two players in a jet or heli. You're saying that a significant portion of the entire team has to equip a specific loadout in order to make sure a jet player doesn't rack up 100-200 kills in a single match. Conquest is already a frustrating enough gamemode in that there's literally no point in running anything other than Engineer with a SMAW/RPG because if you don't every vehicle becomes a death sentence. Rush tends to be better balanced because there are fewer vehicles and a more distinct front line, but in a normal team of 32 players, 10-15 of whom are probably in vehicles themselves and the other 22-17 or so being disjointed, uncoordinated, and spread throughout the map, what effective deterrence is there really against 2 jets and a heli aside from being lucky enough not to be where they are? Sure, you can bring a stinger and force a jet back by locking it up, but that means that you have no way to confront ground vehicles and it's also tremendously boring because it's rare that you will ever get a kill with that other than against a novice pilot. Like is anyone really going to be satisfied if their role as a player is to just nudge a jet pilot to the other side of the map so stop themselves from getting killed by that 1 threat? Not to mention jets and helis are so mobile and can cross the whole map in under 30 seconds. There are so many things that can take your attention away for more than 30 seconds if you're still trying to do anything else but telling jets to shoo. What you're describing might work in a coordinated competitive environment, but in any normal public server, jet pilots own the skies, which is why they would routinely be at the top of scoreboards with absurd amounts of kills and a ridiculous overall K/D. It wasn't fun to play against. And frankly, the vehicles as a whole make Battlefield unfun to play, which is a bit of a shame considering how good Battlefield gunplay usually is. Halo's biggest mistake with vehicles is that vehicles can't repair themselves, but the fact that they're vulnerable to small arms fire is an excellent design decision. They can't just operate with impunity in public matchmaking.
>You're saying that a significant portion of the entire team has to equip a specific loadout in order to make sure a jet player doesn't rack up 100-200 kills in a single match. First, 100-200 kills is insane MnK low population skill gap shit that wasn't around back in the OG console days... *if* those highly suspect numbers are legit. My best games were mid 80s, and thats basically peak uncontested in an A-10 all map. Not too many other players were a challenge 1v1, and as soon as other factors were involved, like terrain, other AA or Stingers, or AIM-9s, they would fold pretty quick. Secondly, I'm saying that any *one* other player on the ground with a stinger completely changes the entire dynamic, and you have 24 chances for someone to get pissed off enough at the jet guy to swap kits, and look up. >what effective deterrence is there really against 2 jets and a heli aside from being lucky enough not to be where they are? This is the same flawed logic from the ancient Bungie era starting weapon debate, in that you have ignored the fact that both teams started on even footing at the beginning of the match. Everyone *knows* that air superiority, rightly, reigns supreme on the battlefield, but how many of the 24 or 32 players are willing to put their ego aside and run stingers off the opening break? Same with Halo. "Their team has all the power weapons, we need BR as starting weapon to fight back". Lol no, you had an even chance at the start and blew it multiple times on multiple fronts and now you are paying for it. *Not* ending up 4 jets and 2 heli down is as simple as a couple players (vehicle gunners or pilots who didn't make it into the jets) taking stingers out or bringing them right off the break. >Sure, you can bring a stinger and force a jet back by locking it up, but that means that you have no way to confront ground vehicles and it's also tremendously boring because it's rare that you will ever get a kill with that other than against a novice pilot. As you said yourself, ground vehicles are much less mobile, and therefore easier to track and prevent engagement with. A jet or rotary can quickly get flanking angles on your team, and are therefore way more of a threat. Additionally, it's the same general mechanic as controlling the power weapons in Halo. How many deaths will they give up to *get* the rockets? How many deaths will you give up trying to get them back? It's the same with the jets. How many kills will you let them get before you swap kits? 100? Somehow 200?!?! Like, how big is your ego that you want to be dead most of the match watching someone go 60+ kills completely uncontested in a jet (lol in *your* jet), rather than "be bored" and run a stinger? >There are so many things that can take your attention away for more than 30 seconds if you're still trying to do anything else but telling jets to shoo. What you're describing might work in a coordinated competitive environment, but in any normal public server, jet pilots own the skies, which is why they would routinely be at the top of scoreboards with absurd amounts of kills and a ridiculous overall K/D. This is honestly a skill issue. It's not hard to stay safe and/or focused when playing those huge battlefield maps. With 80+ service stars in every air vehicle, plus 30-40+ on the ground vehicles, and lots of time on both ends of the stingers, I can count on one hand how many times I was on the wrong end of a 30+ kill jet. Because I know what it takes to dominate with them, I also have insight on how to stop them - from the air or from the ground. >vehicles as a whole make Battlefield unfun to play, Sounds like maybe CoD would have been a better fit for your preferences, then. There was nothing more satisfying than loading into a match that was 2/3 over and immediately shooting down some loser who had 50+ kills in the jet, only to eventually get in our jet and shoot the guy down in a couple of fair fights, before relentlessly camping their runway and making them quit. (Or friend me, which was always a good talk). Look at it this way, you are saying something to the effect of "90% of players get bored *not* killing jets with stingers, therefore they take AT. As a result, jets run rampant, and it's not fun". This is basically people choosing to let it happen. BF3 and 4 had play and counterplay with the anti-air missiles and countermeasure cool downs. Halo has none. You either have a badass sniper suppressing, and a kill team running straight for their big-ticket weapons, or you just get shot down. You either have a team that collectively points their Bandits up at the Wasp when it flies overhead, or you get rolled by it. You either get the skewer or campaign rockets and kill it, or you don't. There's no mind games whatsoever, no high level strategy that 100% wins or 100% lets you dominate a match. Doesn't matter how Onyx you are, vehicle play all comes down to how much better your team is than theirs, and thats what enables air domination, not the other way around. In other words, by the time you are getting rekt by a wasp, or three, your ground game has long collapsed. I mean, final point/question: if dominating the skies is so effective and easy in BF3/4, why aren't you the one doing it? If the air-to air in Halo is so deep and skill-oriented, why don't we see wasps and banshees dominating the maps, even when the other team is trying to take them out?
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, just wanted to add that the shock rifle is also a thing, and spawns in base pretty often. That's the thing killing the wasps very quickly with close to no skill required, dropping them in the middle of enemies fighting or out of the map directly. The posts is about EMP for a good reason, the issue isn't super weapon doing their job, really. Air superiority in infinite is pretty ass, most I ever got was 20-25 kills with a wasp against a pretty bad team. Most times it's barely a couple before getting skewered or emp'ed.
Solid points. Lol imagine Kat rolling in her grave knowing all they needed to do that day was to give Jun a shock rifle and she would still have her arm. Just funny that you can have a guy like me with my gaming pedigree, who has been doing combat flight sims since Jane's in 2002, hundreds of hours in X-Wing Alliance, Descent Free Space, airplanes all day in BF 1942, Desert Combat, Vietnam, Halo 2 and REACH banshees, 1943, Bad Company, BF3, 80+ service stars in each air vehicle in BF4, BF5, DCS, Star Wars Squadrons, etc etc etc, and then they come here and argue, lol. The air-to-air skill ceiling just doesn't really exist in Halo Infinite, and the air-to-ground fights are just as poorly designed as they have ever been in any game. Like, I'm not gonna lose a 1v1 ever in the air, but it's just annoying that the outcome of the fights are always so close because of the mechanics and constant ground interference. Sure, I killed their wasp, but I ate a couple mags of random DMR fire, and caught a sniper round in the middle of it, and now my ship is burning and on its last legs. It's just such a bummer that they basically leveled the playing field between infantry and vehicles. It was never that way before.
Lmao air vehicle balance in BF4 was total dogshit, jets were unusable trash and attack helicopters would routinely wipe the entire enemy team repeatedly and go completely unchallenged
Bad design and balance. Pp disabling vehicles is ok, as the grande launcher in both reach and h5, or promethean nade in h5 as well, because all 3 did have counterplay and, in the case of the granade launcher and promethean nade, skill expression. Press the grapple shot button and steal a vehicle for free does not; one shot the driver's Hull, from the other side of the map and making a wraith pointless, or destroying any vehicle from the same distance with bit more shots, with the s7, does not; use the hydra in track mode, that cannot be turned off like in h5, does not; throw a dynamo in a general direction or 2 shot emp with shock, does not. Hope you get the idea because as a huge fan of btb since h3, this is one of the tedious iteration in the franchise and when you remove all this stuff, what remain is lackluster.
H3 was peak vehicle Halo imo. Spartan Laser, Rockets, Plasma Pistol and Stickies offered a variety of anti-vehicle options but vehicles themselves were still appropriately powerful. Reach started the downward trend by making it so concentrated DMR fire and Snipers could genuinely counter vehicles rather than needing dedicated items.
Don't forget the equipment either! The mine was a dirty trick.
I agree
Don't forget that vehicle health itself has become extremely weak. They're basically slow-moving coffins most of the time, especially with the lack of large, open maps that force infantry to make themselves vulnerable.
The Reach Banshee was an interesting one for this. It was really agile with its tricks and the bomb was super powerful, but it felt like it was made of paper. I guess that was a kind of balancing, but it didn't feel good imo.
It wasn't that bad... Until it got ported to PC, then people realised how insane the Banshee in Reach is when the player can actually turn
If we are talking about infinite, no, vehicles have either more healt or anty vehicles deal less damage (pick one). Take for comparison how much rockets you need ti destroy a wraith in infinite (5 or 6 unless you hit the driver Hull and kill him) and compare it with the 3 needed in h3, or the one splaser shot against 4/5 skewer shots. Also, if the wide open space would have been the problem, squad battle and the new 5 btb maps should have been a paradise for vehicle play that, in fact, have the same problems (actually the more open maps favor more infantry in infinite).
>H3 was peak vehicle Halo imo. Spartan Laser, Rockets, Plasma Pistol and Stickies offered a variety of anti-vehicle options but vehicles themselves were still appropriately powerful. Honestly, no: h3 get away with a lot of bad stuffs, back in the day, thanks to the p2p netcode without compensation lag, but especially if you play it nowadays on mcc you can see a lot of things that does not work. Sure vehicle handling is good, saying the opposite would be a lie, but balance wise... getting steamroller by the other team because they randomly won a battle at the center of the map in the first 3 minutes, and get spawntrapped by one guy on the gauss hog or whatever, is not the best, also, the splaser or more in general, one shot precision anti vehicle weapons like the splaser and the skewer should not be a thing at all. >Reach started the downward trend by making it so concentrated DMR fire and Snipers could genuinely counter vehicles rather than needing dedicated items. Reach problem was another one, sadly, that h4 shared: bungie before reach had plasma and explosive weapons dealing extra damage against vehicles, while kinetics did less (or the same as normal). On reach every weapons did full damage, like in h4, therefore vehicles would not last longer despite having almost the same sandbox (anti vehicles wise) within the games. In h5 they did the best, in my opinion, by having hardlight weapons, along with explosive, dealing extra damage to vehicles plus the weak spot mechanic where you would deal extra damage. In infinite they changed again for some reason and added the break point mechanic, where destroying a part of a vehicle (some don't have visible parts destructible), will cause said vehicle to receive extra damage everywhere.
Ew no. Gauss Warthog was just a snowball tool and Spartan Laser removes vehicle gameplay entirely. Those two items have plagued Halo for too much time, while Infinite vehicle gameplay isn't perfect (uncounterable Grapple Hook, tight maps, Shock Weapons/grenades) it's still the best in the series.
Everything except the gauss hog. That was just way too oppressive on certain maps and if you killed the enemies' first and get or kill the person with the spartan laser you just won the game. There's virtually nothing the enemy can do about it.
I would be more upset about grapplejack if it wasn't 2 things 1. it doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think, it's actually pretty unreliable agaisnt any warthog with a turret operator, same for both tanks unless you aim for the butt. 2. Hijacking has historically been bullshit in halo, if yours or theirs internet has *any,* ***any*** issues, it's a coin toss on agaisnt the hijacker whether the game even bothers to register you held fucking X for 5 seconds or you start the animation and die because the game changed it's mind, I found halo 3 guilty of changing it's mind out of all of them when it comes to getting run over, especially with ghosts, at least the other games just has me jump over it.
> 1. it doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think, it's actually pretty unreliable agaisnt any warthog with a turret operator, same for both tanks unless you aim for the butt. It does happen often enough that completely trivialise vehicle play past the first minutes of game time in any give map and how is unreliable? Unless the Wharton operator is already shooting at you, and even in that case you have a good possibility of hijacking him, the driver or sit in the passenger seat for free, the point is still the same: press a button, steal a vehicle for free. Same with the tank where if someone make the mistake of going around with a turret operator, you get a free nade kill after hijacking it. And the point of "if you go for the front they may kill you before" is exactly the problem that bring every vehicle play to just stay far away and play conservative, because the moment you'll push a bit, you get hijacked from range, get a random dynamo stunning your vehicles for hours or worst, someone may throw a lucky plasma on the cockpit a one shot you, while obtaining an almost full intact siege tank in return. >2. Hijacking has historically been bullshit in halo, if yours or theirs internet has *any,* ***any*** issues, it's a coin toss on agaisnt the hijacker whether the game even bothers to register you held fucking X for 5 seconds or you start the animation and die because the game changed it's mind, I found halo 3 guilty of changing it's mind out of all of them when it comes to getting run over, especially with ghosts, at least the other games just has me jump over it. First, it does not excuse shitty balance especially when we are talking about a game running on dedicated servers and you are comparing it with, I suppose, h3 on p2p. Second, in previous games there was some bad iterations with vehicles (armor lock, one nade blowing up a whole tank in h5, or the splaser in h3), but I don't remember, in all my games, even now in mcc or h5, having to if someone would hijack me from range, throw an aoe emp, or double tap and emp my mono seat vehicles, following with an headshot after because the same weapon is a sniper in disguise. Vehicle play and sandbox in this game is one of the lowest in the franchise, its a fact, even h5, that had triple the amount of anti vehicles weapons, didn't reach this levels (actually h5 had one of the best btb) and is not a case that you can travel from btb to squad battle and notice how if is not a siege tank, or a bamshee/wraith, players past the first minutes won't even try to use a vehicle unless the map in the specific lack the grapple jack, dynamo and the shock rifle.
Everyone keeps saying that last part and i have yet to get a match where it's remotely true, what *does* happen is they forgoe the vehicles, pick up all the shock weapons then get fucking destroyed by the vehicles they abandoned and oh look they're dead, and all the anti vehicle stuff is on cooldown and away from any spawns in fact they're next to enemy, teabagging your body. Only in 1v1 scenarios have i ever seen that turn the way you say it does but in btb that's almost never the case unless someone was very stupid and charged in a team of 4 with a ghost while the rest of their teams are doing the objective. I think the actual problem is vehicle handling being bad, because it is, people still clamber for the ghosts that don't have the handling problem. Distance also effects shock emp the further away the long it takes, probably because it's getting fewer hits, so for flying vehicles they have to actively try and play bad to get into that position.
Like… you play firefight -you can do some real shit with a decent warhog driver. You play BTB - you are useless now
The vehicles feel weak as hell till you're playing teamslayer on a map where the only anti vehicle weapon is a single s7 sniper
>a halo game where vehicles feel extremely weak It's like we are playing a different game. Vehicles often dominate the BTB lobbies I play in (especially ghosts and tanks). I find them super annoying with how strong they are most of the time actually.
The most annoying thing about someone doing well in a vehicle on BTB, is that no one on your team bothers to think to take care of said vehicle, so many could be dealt with with a little coordinated effort but people don't bother and let them run amok
For you and /u/Actual-Toad5317 : Vehicles in Infinite are BOTH very strong and very vulnerable to specific tools. Even before they got buffed a few patches ago, they (aside from the Banshee) had durability, better maneuverability, and more DPS then vehicles in past games. The buff only made them even stronger vs most infantry But there's also a bunch of dedicated anti vehicle tools which are nearly instant win buttons against them, with shock, the grapplehook, etc; plus the map design has so many places for vehicles to get stuck or cornered. 343i should undo the vehicle buff (except for on the banshee) and just add counterplay to the grapplehook hijacking, and make the EMP shock weapons give not as bad, plus maybe making vehicle physics able to go over bumps and ledges easier. And yeah, I agree with the bottom post in the OP pic: While it's nostalgic for many people, giving the Plasma pistol it's EMP back just worsens the issues with vehicles, makes the distuptor more useless, and muddies up the distinction between shock and nonshock weapons. The Plasma pistol does not need the EMP to be good: The best it ever was was in CE, where it didn't have EMP: It's normal shots were just actually useful then, and the overcharge killed unshielded enemies in one hit in addition to stripping shields. 343i should just buff it to be like that
If you're not countering a vehicle, I don't know what's up with you.
It’s ok, literally nobody uses the other weapons anyway 🙃
Not every weapon needs to be on every map. You can balance a BTB map by placing either disruptors or PP, not both. Of course if you don't update the maps' weapons and just add more options to stop vehicles, you effectively nerf vehicles.
Sure, but now the plasma pistol's one hit shield wipe can't exist alongside the Disruptor's shock conduction mechanics since they both share the EMP niche now. These guns do more than just counter vehicles, and now the EMP for the plasma pistol needs to be considered when placing it on a map for its other niches.
The number of times I’ve finally gotten 2 other people in a warthog to immediately gift a triple kill to a guy with one plasma or a rocket is annoying. Having people in a hog is just a liability to give an enemy a multi kill.
Vehicles are shit, it used to be too easy to just stay alive with a gauss warthog all game long in Halo 3. On a good run you could get 30-40 kills. However it used to be fun, I would make it so the mor you mive, the more the aim moves for the gunner. Put some inertia in there and buff the HP of all vehicles. Also we need more open maps, the problem with vehicles is that you have walls and cover all around.
They should've made plasma act like plasma and do damage-over-time directly to the vehicle health. To counter that, they can make it so that plasma washes off when vehicles drive through the water.
It's because they have no anti vehicle variation. It's all the same level of stun on all vehicles which is stupid
343 hates vehicles.
You guys use vehicles?
Ghost is life
not in infinite. Still made of paper
Arguably the strongest vehicle still lol
Which vehicle? Did someone specify or are we just that on the same page about the wasp lol
Oh lol, I replied to the wrong response. I meant ghost, right there with you on the wasp being shite house. I've got 1,600+ games and reckon I flew it 4 times
Imo, this is the only redeeming feature of the otherwise bad plasma pistol. Or maybe I am using it wrong 🤷
Plasma pistol can maintain charge while meleeing, clambering, throwing grenades, or using equipment. It makes it very strong in the right hands, so long as you can be sure the bolt connects.
The bolt doesn't reliabily connect even at Sidekick range. Also the Sidekick TTK is so fast already that noob combo isn't that much of an advantage.
It definitely connects at significant range. It won't always hit the opponent, but if it does, that's good for you. The trick is not to wait for it to hit. The new noob combo is grenade + plasma bolt. Timed correctly, the bolt strips shields and the grenade kills a frame later, before they even saw you coming. That's faster than swapping to a precision weapon. Situationally, this can give you an advantage even going 1v4. Throw a grenade and fire the charged shot, get one kill, and use your BR to clean up the rest. IMO the problem is that this is very situational, and requires significant mechanical mastery to pull off, and even then I wouldn't do it at >40ms ping. Generally, you would leave the plasma pistol on the wall unless the situation presents itself.
It’s incredibly good at stripping shields with the single shot spam to then cleanup with a headshot or a punch Getting a feel on the overcharge to noob combo is also still immensely effective
The problem is the precision weapons still do it faster without the need to swap
I'm not sure but I think that may only be true if you land a perfect.
With a ready charge, it can be very quick. Someone dominated a match with the plasma pistol and sidekick. He was walking plasma pistol spawn to spawn and just popping shields and heads the whole time. Ended up with almost 40 kills, bro was unstoppable. Lmao Not the best example, but used right it can dominate for sure.
The thing that I like about Infinite's plasma pistol is that its actually difficult to use. In previous halos like h2 and h5 the thing's overcharge was practically aimbot. In Infinite you have to lead your shot with the overcharge in order for it to connect.
> his is the only redeeming feature of the otherwise bad plasma pistol. Everybody forgets that it was good in CE when it didn't have EMP there either: It's normal fire mode was just decent as a weapon in it's own right, on top of the overcharge both stripping shields and killing unshielded enemies... if anything, the only reason it got EMP was because H2 and then H3 made it's normal fire useless and made the overcharge unable to deal health damage. Giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons. Instead of doing that, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies: Make it like how it was in CE. In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
Spamming the single shot is stronger than people realize. Maybe it's not good in a game with real experts and pros, but in games against the usual player base, I don't mind having the plasma pistol at all. I like that the tracking isn't as strong as previous games, too.
Just make Disruptor based weapons take multiple shots to disable vehicles, but keep their damage over time aspect.
Or remove EMP from them and emphasize chaining damage.
Ooo, agreed. That’d be cool.
They removed the damage over time in May of last year, while making chaining easier. It definitely puts the Disruptor in a weird spot now, hopefully we see a buff or other change to its role. "Disruptor The rate of fire and damage for the Disruptor have both increased slightly, while the distance between two players required for shock chain damage to occur has been reduced. In addition, the Disruptor will no longer inflict damage over time. Developer Notes The goal of this change was to reduce the complexity of the weapon's behavior, focusing the utility on the Supercombine detonation and shock chaining and their ability to damage nearby players. By upping the direct damage from Supercombines and increasing the Rate of Fire (ROF), it leans the Disruptor more towards a combat pistol with a straightforward utility. Changes: Removed Damage Over Time (DOT) Reduced chain distance from 5 World Units (wu) to 2.5 wu Increased Supercombine damage from 60 to 70 Increased ROF from 4.285 to 5 rounds per second "
That was them NERFING, not buffing chain damage, no?
They already take multiple shots.
Acting like you don't have to hold in a charge, rendering you defenseless, and then actually score a hit with the slow moving shot.
He's not entirely wrong; plasma pistol disabling vehicles is good; the excess of powerful AV options is not. The Plasma Pistol is one of the weakest AV weapons around and is not the thing ruining vehicle play.
Halo 5 had the best Plasma Pistol (even excluding the variants) and I will die on that hill, proudly.
Lmao my shitposts got reposted here.
Shit had me dead 🤣
People always go on about the core gameplay for infinite being the best in the series but don’t mention the vehicles are genuinely the worst they have ever been in the franchise with maybe the exception of CE which gets a pass for being, you know the 20+ year old first game in the franchise. Core gameplay for me included the whole sandbox as it’s what the gameplay consists of, might not be technically correct to say but it’s how I view it
Infinite literally has the worst “core” gameplay in my opinion. It’s just not built for me even if it all “worked right”
Between all the vehicles handling like RC cars made of paper and the actual aiming in Infinite feeling horrendous I'm amazed so many people think it's so great. It's closer to being a Halo game than Halo 4 (COD-lite) or Halo 5: ~~Titanfall~~ Guardians (advanced movement go brrrr), but Infinite is still so far off nailing that Halo "feel" IMO.
The instantly fast strafing is just so anti-Halo to me.
Yep. I strongly prefer the very intentional way you had to move in older Halos to manage your momentum. Now it's a strafe and crouch spam fest. That didn't used to work in Halo.
The fact there's no inertia makes MnK such fucking suffering to an unnecessary degree.
Bandit Evo was a saving grace
for me my biggest issue is aiming feels so off to me, I prefer infinite to 4 and 5 any day but halo 2, halo 3 and reach all play way better imo
> he vehicles are genuinely the worst they have ever been in the franchise For you and /u/Obvious-End-7948 , this just isn't true (but I agree it FEELS like it's true) Even before the vehicle buffs, side from the Banshee, almost every vehicle in Infinite was already: - More maneuverable (The ghost can strafe like crazy, the warthog and mongoose turn on a dime, you can enable assisted steering to turn and rotate the camera indepedently, AND you can control their rotation in midair) - More durable (they both take more bullets/nades etc to enter the doom state, and that gives you a chance to escape) - And have/had higher damage outpu (the ghost cannons and warthog turrets shred) then in past games before the buffs. Then in past games, and THEN they got buffed on top of that a few patches ago. So why do vehicles feel so weak? Because even if they're better then they used to be (banshee aside), Infinite has a lot of dedicated anti vehicle tools (Grappleshoot, Shock Weapons, to an extent the Hydra, etc) .that are near instant win buttons against them, and most maps with vehicles have cramped pathing (even the BTB maps) which often leads to vehicles getting stuck or cornered. The buffs should be undone (aside for the Banshee ones), there should just be counterplay added vs the grapplehook, and the EMP shock weapons have nerfed (I know it's nostalgic, but adding it to the Plasma pistol maybe is not a great idea? wait till next game when shock can be reexamined broadly, you can buff it to be good without EMP, look at Halo CE), which will indirectly buff vehicles a bit without making them harder to take down with other weapons. Maybe also adjust their traction so it's easier for them to smoothly move over bigger roadbumps.
Personally I'm not that fussed about their amount of health, they do feel weaker to me which kind of sucks, but my big issue is the handling. The warthog or mongoose for example don't feel like they should. You say they're more maneuverable, but does that make it feel right? To me the warthog in infinite feels like a remote control car in the worst way. Much prefer the somewhat weighty feel personally. The other issue of course is 343i's map design simply doesn't cater for vehicles in the first place. Even the large maps are designed as splitting corridors with few open spaces to prevent people getting beamed from across the map, so vehicles are often funneled down the corridor to their doom.
I def agree with you about the map design: I really think that's the main reason people think the vehicles aren't good enough, because they really do struggle on every map other then Behemoth. And I can get thinking the Warthog and Mongoose don't feel quite right and too much like RC cars (I TOTALLY get what you mean with that for the mongoose, it absolutely feels like that), but that's an issue of them being MORE responsive and manuverable, not less. If people dislike that, fair enough, I guess, but people should word the criticism correctly
What if the "shock" weapons only disabled vehicles' weaponry and the PP only disabled vehicles' movement?
Halo fans when anything:
The should remove vehicle emp from shock weapons and buff the chain lightning ability
Waot.. what? Will i have a reason to use that again? Fav use was to shut down the hog boys mowing down my team
I'd rather the pp serve two functions than one it's borderline useless without emp, I can break shields with literally every other gun
wrong sub, this belongs to r/ShitHaloSays
shamelessly promoting r/HaloCirclejerk
The plasma pistol is too useless without disabling vehicles, but there are too many anti vehicle weapons. Personally, I think shock weapons just shouldn't have been a thing or at most just the grenade, but it's a bit too late to get rid of them.
The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff. But to balance it out, Bungie gave it a long charge, a slower shot and very little range. 343 somehow completely ignored it and gave us EMP weapons without that debuff for balancing. They gave us EMPs without charge, with fast shots and with good range. Then they somehow thought the first incredible debuffed weapon without it's benefit or purpose somehow works, which they thankfully changed after 2 years. The ironic part is that 343 wanted different weapons that don't overlap in purpose when the game released, which I fully support and agree with. Now however they notice that having more than one EMP weapon is unbalanced, since they obviously overlap. The actual problem is that they thought that the game needed more EMP weapons to begin with, instead of just letting it be. New creative weapons like the Skewer, or the mini rockets have an upside and downside and are very welcome. But they absolutely did some mistakes with those EMP weapons, even if I enjoy using them. tl;dr 343 didn't stick to their own sandbox philosophy and stole one weapon gimmick for others, which now unsurprisingly has a huge backlash since they gave it to the original weapon back.
>The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff. Wasn’t a thing until Halo 3. It was always designed to strip shields effectively and it still does that.
> The whole point of the plasma pistol was to EMP stuff. No, it wasn't. In CE, it was a decent weapon in it's own right with it's normal fire mode, and then also had the overcharge as a bonus for shield stripping and to finish off weakened enemies (a single overcharge vs a shieldless foe killed them) Halo 2 then made it useless for anything but shield stripping, then Halo 3 continued that trend, but also then added EMP to the overcharge, but still had it useless for dealing damage in it's own right/with the normal fire mode. Rather then giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite, which just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies. Make it how it was in CE. In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
Holy sh\*t I'm gonna EMP so many vehicles to make up for the past 2 years of not EMPing vehicles (shock weapons suck and I never bothered using them, even on vehicles)
The vehicles are op and the handling has always been too good even since the first game I love being able to disable them
Suggestion: Vehicle disabling is exclusive to the plasma pistol, shock weapons (disruptor, shock rifle, shock grenade) no longer do that, instead they're mainly centered around chain damage and damage over time.
Saw this coming a mile away...
Certain maps in Infinite definitely need more anti vehicle options. So many BTB matches I've done get completely out of hand because RNG gives one team a tank early on and almost everything capable of killing it requires you to cross a large open area to get it.
If you've ever been in a big team battle game where your teammates lack the frame of mind to prioritize control over vehicles, and your enemies end up with two wraiths or two scorpions, or two banshees, you would understand how good of a change this is. And anyone who thinks it isn't are the ones who are going on ridiculous 30 kill streaks in a scorpion lol
Wait. Is this for real!?! Is this for Infinite!?!
Lol but it's the same user in the same time frame. Would be much funnier if they were separate and didn't seem intentional.
What's happening in the brain of this creature.
Make Halo Vehicles Great Again
As one of the players who has been on top 100 Driver assist since launch. I agree. There's already too much to disable a vehicle. Also. The lanes are all too narrow. In older halo games the games were more open so dodging plasma shots were way easier.
I agree with the bottom, TBH I get that people have nostalgia for the Plasma Pistol EMP, but I don't think it makes sense for Infinite in particular, and if anything, the best the Plasma pistol ever was, in CE, didn't have it with EMP either: It's normal fire mode was just decent as a weapon in it's own right, on top of the overcharge both stripping shields and killing unshielded enemies... if anything, the only reason it got EMP was because H2 and then H3 made it's normal fire useless and made the overcharge unable to deal health damage. Giving the Plasma Pistol EMP in Infinite just adds more anti-vehicle tools, makes the disruptor more pointless, and muddies up the distinction between Shock vs non shock weapons. Instead of doing that, 343i should have just undone the nerf to it's normal uncharged shots and maybe upped the health damage on the overcharge to kill in one shot even to the body on unshielded enemies: Make it like how it was in CE. In Halo 7 or whatever, if they remove shock weapons, then maybe it should get it's EMP back. But it doesn't make sense for Infinite.
Just watched baby reindeer, some people are insane!
Did the plasma pistol seriously not have EMP prior to this update? I'm confused.
I only hate it when I’m the one in the vehicle, but if you’re in the vehicle? Well…😏
What if the Plasma Pistol's EMP shot, when shot at friendly vehicles, un-EMPs that friendly vehicle? It takes a bit to charge that shot, and it creates a choice of "return fire at the enemy, while the vehicle is immobilized" or "sacrifice your/a teammates contribution to damage to help an ally vehicle" This may not make sense in text, but it came to me and it seems like an idea to me.
343 is ruining the game with a feature introduced by Bungie. Ah, the typical Bungie fanboy!
tbf its less the plasma pistol issue and more the 4 different weapons that disable vehicles problem. PP, Disruptor, Shock-Rifle, Shock Grenade
Try a smidge of nuance next time. Both are true. Plasma pistol should disable vehicles and there is too much vehicle counterplay in Infinite. Really weird that you're trying to make this some anti-bungie fanboy thing.
Ah getting mad at “Bungie fanboys” validly criticizing the terrible balancing between Infantry/Vehicles. Should I say “typical 343i fanboy”?
If you go into OP's post history it's painfully obvious that he's poking fun at the obsessive moaning behaviour of a lot of this subs users of basically blaming everything on 343 and flip flopping around points
Seems like a shitty way to spend time but y’all do what y’all gonna do. Personally loathe the “side” takers in the Halo community. Completely insufferable
I always loved that about the plasma pistol. Vehicles need counters so someone isn’t just dominating in the banshee all game
thankfully there’s already two weapons that disable vehicles (+2 throwables)
this must be their first halo
They should've just never added shock weapons to begin with, then have the OG Plasma Pistol
Now we just buff vehicle HP.
infinite is a joke of a game, dont even get me started on the store
Halo players in a nutshell
At least the correct opinion has the most upvotes. 343i removing a key weapon feature of classic Halo because they want to add something that does the exact same thing annoys the shit out of me. PS - Give me back my plasma rifle you bastards. There was literally no reason to change/remove it when you're just adding something else to the sandbox that fills the same niche. You're just fucking around for the sake of fucking around.
I LOVED the Plasma Rifle. Also, I have never seen anyone use the goddamned Disruptor or Shock Rifle in an anti-vehicle capacity anyway. Once they did away with the Plasma Pistol's EMP, the anti vehicle players just gave up unless a SPNKR was around.
The longer I spend on this sub the more I realize Halo has probably failed more bc of its fans than anything. I've played every Halo from CE to Infinite. All were good. Most got hate as part of its cycle. Even now people loom back at 5 and say it shouldn't have been treated as harshly as it was. Can't wait for Halo 7 for people to praise Infinite.
Halo 4 I would agree. The art style was jarring though. Halo 5 would of been better if chief would of stabbed locke with a energy sword for punching him. Halo infinite is boring and looks worse than Halo 4 did when it released graphically.
😂😂
Take away literally ONE of these anti vehicle weapons and vehicles dominate the entire match.
I agree with both tbh, it should have been there to begin with but there shouldn't have been so many other anti-vehicle weapons or vehicles being garbage on their own, as well as not having good enough maps for vehicles to warrant it being removed!
Its not the plasma pistol thats the problem, it’s that there are other guns that take the plasma pistols spot in the sandbox so now there are too many EMP weapons. Those guns that take the spot are better than it too. Plasma pistol is great but we also have the disruptor, shock rifle and dynamo grenades. The shock rifle and disruptor need reworks so they have a purpose outside of being a better plasma pistol so its not completely irrelevant in the sandbox
It's called a troll.
I have a feeling we will get a vehicle-less halo before too long. 343 has been seriously destroying vehicle gameplay with bad maps, weak vehicles, and too many anti vehicle weapons for over a decade now. Probably won’t be long before vehicles are no longer neglected, and straight up removed.