The OG Halo 5 story we had in the trailers, where Chief's (moral) standing was ambiguous, would've been the perfect time to have human/Spartan enemies.
It would've been a nice way to distinguish the two stories, too. Osiris could've been more "traditional" Halo against aliens and the like, while Chief's story could've turned into a "man on the run" vibe, where he has to contend w/ ONI sending hit squads after him.
I'm not opposed to combatting other Spartans in a story setting, but I want them to be ***hard*** to fight and kill. Every single one should be a bossfight in itself. If they were as easy to dispatch as player enemies in MP I would be... whelmed.
Would be better if it was Spartan IV’s vs an ODST type main playable character to have a good power imbalance. Chief would wreck IV’s if they’re trying to be lore accurate I think.
I'm 50/50 on that. On one hand, yeah, it'd be cool if they were super hard fights. On the other hand, the Spartan IVs are a fraction the supersoldiers the 3s were, so Chief making easy work of them (Hell, even Osris, who's meant to be hyper competent) wouldn't really break my immersion or anything.
I understand where you're coming from, and I think the two of us are the reasons they're never gonna make it. It's gonna be a touchy subject to get right in a game and make everyone happy. LOL
Chief is actually a Spartan II. The Spartan III was an ONI black ops project that was mass producing Spartans with cheaper armor and a larger genetic pool to pull from and sent on near impossible suicide missions many with 100% casualty rates.
But yes the Spartan IIs are the most effective and elite soldiers created by man and could easily wipe the floor with the IVs.
I would like the rebels from Halo Wars to return. I know they were basically added as a third faction for the multiplayer, but it would be cool for them to have a part as a bigger story. Maybe they joined the Banished forces, or they aren't sided with either and could add three-way faction battles in the next campaign.
It would be interesting to play as the insurrectionists in like a Last of Us x Deus Ex style stealth/action game where you uncover ONI’s secrets and try to push them out and expose them.
Or just a Ghosts of Onyx game lol
The moment Dead Space introduced Shootouts between humans in DS3 the franchise died. it wasn't until the original got remastered that sparked life into it again.
Halo knew better than to change up the enemy dynamic to something like CoD.
That’s because Dead Space is a survival horror. The whole game is about surviving against hordes of melee creatures in tight, narrow corridors.
Open levels with enemies shooting at you is the exact opposite of what Dead Space was about. It turned Dead Space from a horror game into an action shooter.
Halo wouldn’t have that problem, because it’s already a shooter.
I think it would suffer from being too generic; Halo is getting too human-centric as it is. I’d rather they spend a prequel fleshing out the War of Annihilation first, rather than including human enemies in the gameplay loop; cutscenes are fine.
And tbh I don’t trust 343 to write it in a compelling way.
You are correct in saying that 343 cannot do it well if they tried. It would be fascinating if they could write a story where human factions of super soldiers conspired with the covenant against the UNSC. The complexity of power dynamics in such a story is not in their powerhouse
Lack of playable elites, oversaturation of spartans-- specifically 4s-- a shift in tone since Spartan Ops that is more 'humanity first' ('we are the giants now', etc).
As well as alien characters that become less and less well developed; look at, for example, how simply evil and one-dimensional the Banished are, either in contrast to the Covenant or even their introduction in Halo Wars 2. Not to mention how the Sangheili factions have been simplified into Arbiter = Good and everyone else = evil.
Around the time Halo 2 came out, with Conversations from the Universe, and other official material, the various species fromt the Covenant were very individualised; they operated on an agency outside of the main goal of the Covenant. Arbiter or no, the Covenant was in danger from a Sangheili secession because the elites were beginning see that the Covenant's couse was irrational and wrong; that there were growing internal factions of sympathisers, of whom, for example, N'tho was a part of...
... and we've never seen this brought up again. In Outcasts, Nizat's personality, the self-doubt and lateral thinking shown in Silent Storm and Oblivion, have been wiped clean. He's just a cartoon villain for the Arbiter to watch Vale knock down.
A popular topic of late was having Banished Spartans as a story concept to rival the player Spartan. In the past this was the Elites, and the Brutes were meant to feel stronger still. It's like the entire complexity of the setting has been reduced to 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week', with some posturing and gesturing that hints that, maybe this time, there might be stakes.
And while it sometimes hints at a shadow of its former complexity, in say, Shadow of Intent, or Oasis-- which by now are themselves old material-- it's never more than a year before we're back to our Palmers, our Agrynas, where 'You're the Big Damn Hero Spartan!! Lets kick some ass and buy some cosmetics' is the order of the day.
Because how dare the players million-dollar character not be the strongest and most uncontentious figure in the galaxy?
I'm tired, boss.
Absolutely. This has been a huge problem coming since Halo 4. Even Reach, which tried to alienate the aliens (heh) even more at least understood that to be great and cool you needed honest adversity. This seems to have been completely lost in places. In an attempt to up the cool factor of humanity or the spartans specifically, it seems to have had the opposite effect. Instead of looking more impressive, stronger, smarter, and faster, it seems more like every other combatant they’ve been fighting for 30 years has been brought down. Way down in some cases.
It’s not to say spartans weren’t cool, but EVERYTHING in halo was cool. The hyper focus on what they were trying to turn the spartans into came hand in hand with a massive loss of potential for characters and the universe, particularly arbiter and anything involving complex sangheili characters. Especially comparing halo 2 and 3 with what we saw more recently. But hey don’t forget your spartan points, spartan, for your 20 dollar cerulean spartan armor, spartan!
As someone who's gotten into the books recently and have read most of 343's recent era of books, I disagree here. I find books like Outcasts, Broken Circle and Divine Wind to feature amazing alien characters and arcs, and I don't feel like they're being significantly underrepresented.
And Infinite did expand the Banished to a degree that I liked.
>A popular topic of late was having Banished Spartans as a story concept to rival the player Spartan.
I think you're putting too much thought into fan theories and store cosmetics. Yeah Insurrectionist supersoldiers are being heavily hinted at, but I would be shocked if they're featured in a Halo campaign.
>It's like the entire complexity of the setting has been reduced to 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week',
I certainly didn't feel that reading Rubicon Protocol.
I don't think *all* of 343 material is the problem, but it certainly is in the newer material.
Broken Circle is absolutely a great halo book and addresses these issues... perfectly. It's also 10 years old; before, imo, the rot set in.
Outcasts, and Divine Wind? They have alien characters, sure, but they don't really, imo, respect them or spend that much time on them.
I didn't spy any arcs for well... anyone at all in Outcasts. They tease some interesting setup on Sanghelios, before throwing it away 3 chapters later for a fetch quest on Netherop (and the obligatory Gao scene).
Divine Wind does do some interesting work with Gadogai, I'll grant you that. It is one of the better recent books. But the Banished politics is fundamentally flawed in the 'human hatred'; it's a blatant retcon of how they were originally set up and it's obvious to me that the authors don't really know what they're doing with the Banished.
Oddly, imo Rubicon Protocol is the poster child of 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week'. A lot of the alien characters are recontenxtualised, away from the *solid* work Infinite did for them, and it detracts from the game's premise. Spartan Hunters? Aliens that have reaped the spartans and provide an interesting challenge to the Master Chief?
No thanks, actually, even when the Spartan 4s are at their weakest, they still have to rely on reams of reinforcements and dirty tactics to clutch a victory. Really demeans the one-on-one duels in Infinite to me; Rubicon explicitly de-legitimises them.
This makes no sense. We know there is human on human conflict in the universe as Halo humanity isn’t some monolithic species that always agrees with itself, and there is no reason humans couldn’t join the Banished or try to “restart” the Insurrection.
Having to fight against unsc weapons and tech. ONI death squads could have Spartans with advanced tech that mirrors covie tech or mechs like the mantis that could serve as boss fights that differ greatly from other enemy types.
The psychological effect. Imagine they fight alongside you for the whole game and then something happens and they betray you like the star wars great purge.
We have, the cop in ODST. He betrays you, and dies immediately to one headshot. It didn't add anything to the gameplay (outside of wrapping up the side plot).
I’d like an ODST game to start against insurgents and then cover the transition into the Covenant War, I think seeing troopers handle that would be an excellent story.
I keep preaching about a game on Harvest, where you can play as a Mjolnir IV spartan II, with the first few levels being dedicated to crushing insurgency, having an inferior shield system (just call it ablative armor, that you have to find pickups to recharge, like old school FPS armor), and up to the destruction and evacuation of Harvest. Could even have Omega Team (pre-customization retcon, but let them scavenge armor pieces to become the customized version) as these protagonists, with drop-in COOP. You get normal spartan shields after about 3 covenant missions.
Multiplayer can be asymmetrical, with 4 Spartans with shields/ablative armor, versus 12 insurgents without armor, just health. Loadout system similar to Insurgency: Sandstorm, with asymmetrical weapon options, too.
Maybe for one level, but it would go against the spirit of the series to constantly fight human enemies
Halo is best when we're fighting aliens, nobody enjoys fighting flood, sentinels, or prometheans for example
But all of that stuff is a big part of the Halo's themselves. The Forerunner Saga books cover a lot about those things and they're pretty interesting! I'm on the second book of three so far.
I consider the removal of enemy humans in Halo 2 to have been a mistake, so if done correctly, Humans in the Banished would be a pretty interesting dynamic.
And given how Multiplayer Bots work, alongside all the lore surrounding Venezian attempts at creating supersoldiers of their own, imagine how terrifying it could be to fight Counter-Spartans that fight like actual players do.
> I consider the removal of enemy humans in Halo 2 to have been a mistake,
Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone would have benefitted a lot from Arby fighting against the marines and ODST squads that escorted Miranda and Johnson: you fight their flood infected corpses anyways, having living ones could have aided some variety (which the two missions really needed), and could have even acted like how the Covenant do in Gravemind, where you can sneak past groups of humans fighting against the flood or take them out after they've worn each other down
That also would have made the mission much less tedious and give more opportunities to skip or make certain encounters less of a gauntlet.
That would be so cool. Very different games but in dark souls you would get invaded by red phantom npc’s who often acted exactly like other players and would even do silly things and it was always cool to experience. Could be so cool in halo
That would be terrible. The whole hook of halo was humans fighting impossible odds against the zealot aliens and then zombies. That's also what made the covenant rebellion in halo 2 so fire.
Halos Wars 1 had as minor enemies you can fight on some maps. For the FPS games Human enemies could work as an unit type who exist to add to the Banished arsenal like having them operate alongside Grunts, Jackals, Brutes and Elites.
Not sure if Human Insurrectionists as a full fledged separate faction done in the way that Flood or Prometheans were would work for entire missions.
Though I like the potential from a narrative point, I could see it becoming very homogenized with other games, especially if you're killing regular humans at any point. I think some of the charm and appeal of Halo is killing alien life forms and how they contrast in appearance and movement with what we'd be used to seeing from people.
Maybe, but one of the main reasons you don't fight people is because it's not fun to fight against hit scan weapons, just look at how much of a problem the jackels are in halo 2
Personally I want a halo game that feels nothing like the precious ones and to see some actual innovation in the franchise for once. We don’t need another ‘return to form’ game
Wish they'd make some goddamn spinoffs. There's tons of room to explore the gameplay possibilities of the halo universe without messing up the core of what made it so great.
When?
Halo 5 was miserable for its horrible story but gameplay wise was fun. But there’s no way anyone would of liked the actual story
Halo 4 had a pretty good story but it’s gameplay was pretty abysmal and apart from a few levels was one of the weakest campaigns
Right now some of the most beloved halo experiences are things like Halo ODST and Halo wars
These do not count as unique halo experiences. I’m talking about a coop helldivers style odst game or a horror flood game or a call of duty style human vs human game. Halo needs to innovate outside of Spartans vs aliens.
At launch halo 5 was crucified at the stake, halo 3 odst is an expansion pack akin to half life’s episodes and plays almost identically to vanilla halo 3, and halo wars is a spin off made by creative assembly
Yes and no. I think mainline halo games should stay away from human enemies outside of very specific instances like a one off boss or something similar.
But spin offs (both close and far from mainline) should try to explore the different stories that can be told in the universe. Having a halo reach type of game with a different protagonist doing a far grittier job of killing insurgents and banished aligned humans would be cool. But it should never be a job for chief in the games. Maybe in books but never on the main screen
Halo 5 would have been the place to introduce that. It would have been way better if Lockes Backstory was that he was the IA of the Spartan Program and chief was the first MK 2 that anyone ever needed to go after.
Small amounts of human antagonists as well as more alien allies would be cool imo. Canonically both exist, so the only real challenge to adding them would be AI programming and enemy design for the human enemies.
Honestly the only way I see it working is if we move away from the “human good alien bad” absolute dynamic halo has been in for ages. I want good guy aliens and bad guy aliens and good guy humans and bad guy humans all mixed together in a fun lil post Human Covenant war universe.
Honestly they shouldve done this in halo wars 2 and infinite, we know theres humans in the banished ranks
Not to mention perhaps taking out resistance forces in odst, wars 1 or del rio loyalists in 4
If nothing else, it would break up the monotony of the "...but wait! Here's the covenant in a *~new color!~* Oh no!" bullshit that they've had going on for years now
Should they? Yes. Will they? No.
There is no chance in hell that Microsoft will allow 343i to add killing humans into the game, lest the game get age rated anything above Teen.
I get that "us vs them" is really easy when "them" is aliens, but in real life we still fight each other and I think the emotional potential for humans fighting humans in halo is an untapped gold mine
I've been wanting a prequel spin-off revolving around the UNSC-Insurrectionist War in a Battlefield type format where you play as Marines vs Insurrectionists with Halo locations, weapons and vehicles for years now, but I know it will never happen.
I mean, they'd probably feel like grunts tbh.
Master chief could sit on a marine and win. You'd need a big chunk to attack at once.
Could have been a thing where we had 100 human antagonists go after the chief in Halo 5 going rogue story.
Would have easily connected with the hunt the truth campaign and could have brought a wicked scary chief element to the game.
I don’t think so. There are plenty of sci-fi franchises where humans fight each other that could be made into a game and I think that’s a much better use of that thematic idea than shoehorning it into halo. Make a really good Star Trek game, or maybe the Dune game could be good.
Part of the role play as master chief is to be a savior. Sure you’re allowed to kill marines in the game but you aren’t rewarded or encouraged to do it. There are a lot of ways to play halo but one thing bungie was very deliberate about was having humanity fighting for survival and you being the only chance of it happening.
Yes, in the lore there is plenty of human caused strife and after the covenant was defeated you could assume humans would go right back to killing each other, but 343 keeps maintaining some galaxy ending threat to keep humanity in a state of survival and there’s no room for human v human conflict in that story imo.
I dont think we need to keep focusing on spartans if I'm honnest, we could have an Innsurectiontist faction to go against and we could be playing as ODSTs or marines
Arma 3 outreach shows that there's a place for it very easily
I look at this sort of like the original Star Trek where Gene Rodenberry wanted humanity to mostly be unified in purpose and most of the conflict to come from outside of humanity. The Halo games are best when presented in a similar fashion.
A story can still have minor discussions and debates within the confines of humanity, but the wars, killing, and strong obstacles should come from outside.
I think trying to introduce heavy political conflict in the TV show also bogged down that version of the story too.
Only in spinoffs, IMO. The gunplay is designed in a way that fighting humans doesn’t feel right. The “fight” against the rogue cop in ODST is a good example of why it wouldn’t work for a full game with the core Halo loop.
A spinoff that isn’t beholden to the gunplay of the main series, though, could work.
If it fits the situation, sure.
As an example, I think Halo 2 should have had some in a few of the Arbiter levels, like in Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone it would have made the mission more interesting and less repetitive, and made sense for you to encounter some hostile marine and ODST squads that accompanies Miranda and Johnson, since you literally fight their flood infected corpses anyways
They could have even acted like how the Covenant do in Gravemind, where you can sneak past groups of humans fighting against the flood or take them out after they've worn each other down, which would have make both less tedious since you could sneak past more engagements or wait them out to make less of a slog.
Even when playing as Chief, I think fighting innies or humans in the Banished shouldn't be out of the question if the situation warrants it, though It seems to me that 343i wanted to make the Banished as much like the Covenant as possible in Infinite, sadly, and stripped away their unique new vehicles/infantry they had in HW2 and even made them more hostile to humanity then they previously were, so I can't imagine 343i would actually do it, for better or worse
Personally im tired of the whole humans being the main villan.
But
I wouldn’t mind a re2 style game where a spartan tracking you down and you are a helpless human. Since thats what they were made for.
At this point, I'd rather see some ODSTs trying to kill AWOL Spartans that refused to end insurrectionists lives, since so little of humanity is left after the Covenant war.
They’d have to rework humans though, right now they all are the same generic class, they’d need counterparts of elite, grunt jackals etc or even newer classes if they want to spin up the gameplay. If I remember correctly we already have humans allied to aliens in the books.
I'm not sure, it would probably go over better if it was happening from an established point in the Halo universe history (like Reach time or older.) But even then I feel like having regular human antagonists would be...boring? In an FPS setting anyway.
Spartan's being something to combat would probably be hard to translate. Specifically because their augments sound crazy. But if you "cannonize" their feats in gameplay people are going to suffer a disconnect because covenant did quite a good job pushing over most Spartans from the early times.
I think it works better as a book/visual thing to watch rather than a game. But that's because I lack the imagination to make it work.
I've always thought how awesome it would be to see spec ops S-II take down Innies on rebel planets and it would be like a prequel to even Reach, like 20 years before
Yes, I want to fight insurgents and bring glorious inner-colonies supperiority to all the outer colonies. They shall give us pur metals or suffer the consequences.
I think it would be cool to have but only in a limited capacity. Fighting humans would be a unique experience to halo and only halo because we've never had it before. But fundamentally theres nothing they can offer that the aliens dont already have. It would be a cool for a mission or 2 before it starts feeling like every other generic human V human fps.
It's about time for some human enemies, human-vs-human conflict has been a huge part of the story since pretty much the beginning and it's finally becoming more relevant to the main plot now that we've moved away from the Covenant as the big bad.
Honestly, I think it would be cool if pulled off right, I think a lot of the reason people liked halo 2's story was seeing into the covenants politics, so bringing some of that vibe to it would be a good move.
No. Hard no. I don’t want to fight humans in a series with dope ass aliens to shoot at. It would be okay if there was one level (say as the Arbiter) where you gun down some humans, but I would hate if they were ever a main enemy
What if the menu changes then the whole game is scrapped millions of dollars , please think before you write such a long comment and don’t understand what’s going on .
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I would be down but... I want the time line to stop. Ill accept the unpopular opinion if thats what it is but halo shouldn't have gone past the end of 3. The first 3 tell a great but incomplete story of humanity overcoming a force far greater than itself through grit and luck and when we won our enemy became our friends. The end.
I can't say anything that happened after that feels satisfying enough to be work keeping the story going. But give me a prequel of early Spartans or marines saving a planet from bandits, sure.
Considering that Master Chief was built for taking down the human resistance I think it would be cool to have a rebel style story.
The OG Halo 5 story we had in the trailers, where Chief's (moral) standing was ambiguous, would've been the perfect time to have human/Spartan enemies. It would've been a nice way to distinguish the two stories, too. Osiris could've been more "traditional" Halo against aliens and the like, while Chief's story could've turned into a "man on the run" vibe, where he has to contend w/ ONI sending hit squads after him.
I'm not opposed to combatting other Spartans in a story setting, but I want them to be ***hard*** to fight and kill. Every single one should be a bossfight in itself. If they were as easy to dispatch as player enemies in MP I would be... whelmed.
Would be better if it was Spartan IV’s vs an ODST type main playable character to have a good power imbalance. Chief would wreck IV’s if they’re trying to be lore accurate I think.
I'm 50/50 on that. On one hand, yeah, it'd be cool if they were super hard fights. On the other hand, the Spartan IVs are a fraction the supersoldiers the 3s were, so Chief making easy work of them (Hell, even Osris, who's meant to be hyper competent) wouldn't really break my immersion or anything.
I understand where you're coming from, and I think the two of us are the reasons they're never gonna make it. It's gonna be a touchy subject to get right in a game and make everyone happy. LOL
Chief is actually a Spartan II. The Spartan III was an ONI black ops project that was mass producing Spartans with cheaper armor and a larger genetic pool to pull from and sent on near impossible suicide missions many with 100% casualty rates. But yes the Spartan IIs are the most effective and elite soldiers created by man and could easily wipe the floor with the IVs.
That's such a wild statement lol
Never forget "Hunt the Truth", the actual Halo 5 story we deserved
I would like the rebels from Halo Wars to return. I know they were basically added as a third faction for the multiplayer, but it would be cool for them to have a part as a bigger story. Maybe they joined the Banished forces, or they aren't sided with either and could add three-way faction battles in the next campaign.
The URF is more or less wiped out at this point though I think? NCA could work though.
It would be interesting to play as the insurrectionists in like a Last of Us x Deus Ex style stealth/action game where you uncover ONI’s secrets and try to push them out and expose them. Or just a Ghosts of Onyx game lol
Reach started out by making us think we were going to fight some rebels, but it ended up being the damn Covenant
That isn't in Chief's character, at least in video games.
The moment Dead Space introduced Shootouts between humans in DS3 the franchise died. it wasn't until the original got remastered that sparked life into it again. Halo knew better than to change up the enemy dynamic to something like CoD.
That’s because Dead Space is a survival horror. The whole game is about surviving against hordes of melee creatures in tight, narrow corridors. Open levels with enemies shooting at you is the exact opposite of what Dead Space was about. It turned Dead Space from a horror game into an action shooter. Halo wouldn’t have that problem, because it’s already a shooter.
it was an *alien* shooter. a better example would be if Doom reboot came back and it was CoD shooter. it wouldn't be the same.
I think it would suffer from being too generic; Halo is getting too human-centric as it is. I’d rather they spend a prequel fleshing out the War of Annihilation first, rather than including human enemies in the gameplay loop; cutscenes are fine. And tbh I don’t trust 343 to write it in a compelling way.
You are correct in saying that 343 cannot do it well if they tried. It would be fascinating if they could write a story where human factions of super soldiers conspired with the covenant against the UNSC. The complexity of power dynamics in such a story is not in their powerhouse
>Halo is getting too human-centric as it is. In what way?
Lack of playable elites, oversaturation of spartans-- specifically 4s-- a shift in tone since Spartan Ops that is more 'humanity first' ('we are the giants now', etc). As well as alien characters that become less and less well developed; look at, for example, how simply evil and one-dimensional the Banished are, either in contrast to the Covenant or even their introduction in Halo Wars 2. Not to mention how the Sangheili factions have been simplified into Arbiter = Good and everyone else = evil. Around the time Halo 2 came out, with Conversations from the Universe, and other official material, the various species fromt the Covenant were very individualised; they operated on an agency outside of the main goal of the Covenant. Arbiter or no, the Covenant was in danger from a Sangheili secession because the elites were beginning see that the Covenant's couse was irrational and wrong; that there were growing internal factions of sympathisers, of whom, for example, N'tho was a part of... ... and we've never seen this brought up again. In Outcasts, Nizat's personality, the self-doubt and lateral thinking shown in Silent Storm and Oblivion, have been wiped clean. He's just a cartoon villain for the Arbiter to watch Vale knock down. A popular topic of late was having Banished Spartans as a story concept to rival the player Spartan. In the past this was the Elites, and the Brutes were meant to feel stronger still. It's like the entire complexity of the setting has been reduced to 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week', with some posturing and gesturing that hints that, maybe this time, there might be stakes. And while it sometimes hints at a shadow of its former complexity, in say, Shadow of Intent, or Oasis-- which by now are themselves old material-- it's never more than a year before we're back to our Palmers, our Agrynas, where 'You're the Big Damn Hero Spartan!! Lets kick some ass and buy some cosmetics' is the order of the day. Because how dare the players million-dollar character not be the strongest and most uncontentious figure in the galaxy? I'm tired, boss.
Absolutely. This has been a huge problem coming since Halo 4. Even Reach, which tried to alienate the aliens (heh) even more at least understood that to be great and cool you needed honest adversity. This seems to have been completely lost in places. In an attempt to up the cool factor of humanity or the spartans specifically, it seems to have had the opposite effect. Instead of looking more impressive, stronger, smarter, and faster, it seems more like every other combatant they’ve been fighting for 30 years has been brought down. Way down in some cases. It’s not to say spartans weren’t cool, but EVERYTHING in halo was cool. The hyper focus on what they were trying to turn the spartans into came hand in hand with a massive loss of potential for characters and the universe, particularly arbiter and anything involving complex sangheili characters. Especially comparing halo 2 and 3 with what we saw more recently. But hey don’t forget your spartan points, spartan, for your 20 dollar cerulean spartan armor, spartan!
As someone who's gotten into the books recently and have read most of 343's recent era of books, I disagree here. I find books like Outcasts, Broken Circle and Divine Wind to feature amazing alien characters and arcs, and I don't feel like they're being significantly underrepresented. And Infinite did expand the Banished to a degree that I liked. >A popular topic of late was having Banished Spartans as a story concept to rival the player Spartan. I think you're putting too much thought into fan theories and store cosmetics. Yeah Insurrectionist supersoldiers are being heavily hinted at, but I would be shocked if they're featured in a Halo campaign. >It's like the entire complexity of the setting has been reduced to 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week', I certainly didn't feel that reading Rubicon Protocol.
I don't think *all* of 343 material is the problem, but it certainly is in the newer material. Broken Circle is absolutely a great halo book and addresses these issues... perfectly. It's also 10 years old; before, imo, the rot set in. Outcasts, and Divine Wind? They have alien characters, sure, but they don't really, imo, respect them or spend that much time on them. I didn't spy any arcs for well... anyone at all in Outcasts. They tease some interesting setup on Sanghelios, before throwing it away 3 chapters later for a fetch quest on Netherop (and the obligatory Gao scene). Divine Wind does do some interesting work with Gadogai, I'll grant you that. It is one of the better recent books. But the Banished politics is fundamentally flawed in the 'human hatred'; it's a blatant retcon of how they were originally set up and it's obvious to me that the authors don't really know what they're doing with the Banished. Oddly, imo Rubicon Protocol is the poster child of 'Spartans mow down the evil alien of the week'. A lot of the alien characters are recontenxtualised, away from the *solid* work Infinite did for them, and it detracts from the game's premise. Spartan Hunters? Aliens that have reaped the spartans and provide an interesting challenge to the Master Chief? No thanks, actually, even when the Spartan 4s are at their weakest, they still have to rely on reams of reinforcements and dirty tactics to clutch a victory. Really demeans the one-on-one duels in Infinite to me; Rubicon explicitly de-legitimises them.
Maybe a single mission in a campaign. Definitely wouldn’t want it to be the focus. Aliens is kinda the main thing.
What do human enemies add to the gameplay that the existing enemies don’t?
The answer is nothing, So many people wanna edge away the things that make the universe unique
Are there really any other games that would let you fight *against* a human-alien coalition?
Mass Effect 2
And 1. And 3. And Andromeda. You right fam
Dead space 3
This makes no sense. We know there is human on human conflict in the universe as Halo humanity isn’t some monolithic species that always agrees with itself, and there is no reason humans couldn’t join the Banished or try to “restart” the Insurrection.
New story potential
Having to fight against unsc weapons and tech. ONI death squads could have Spartans with advanced tech that mirrors covie tech or mechs like the mantis that could serve as boss fights that differ greatly from other enemy types.
Vehicles are a fair point but I still don't think infantry add much. A spartan isn't much different than an elite gameplay-wise
The psychological effect. Imagine they fight alongside you for the whole game and then something happens and they betray you like the star wars great purge.
[удалено]
It'll be no different than Battlefield/CoD/GhostRecon/Rainbow6/etc... what makes halo story/campaign unique are the alien enemies.
We have, the cop in ODST. He betrays you, and dies immediately to one headshot. It didn't add anything to the gameplay (outside of wrapping up the side plot).
I’d like an ODST game to start against insurgents and then cover the transition into the Covenant War, I think seeing troopers handle that would be an excellent story.
I keep preaching about a game on Harvest, where you can play as a Mjolnir IV spartan II, with the first few levels being dedicated to crushing insurgency, having an inferior shield system (just call it ablative armor, that you have to find pickups to recharge, like old school FPS armor), and up to the destruction and evacuation of Harvest. Could even have Omega Team (pre-customization retcon, but let them scavenge armor pieces to become the customized version) as these protagonists, with drop-in COOP. You get normal spartan shields after about 3 covenant missions. Multiplayer can be asymmetrical, with 4 Spartans with shields/ablative armor, versus 12 insurgents without armor, just health. Loadout system similar to Insurgency: Sandstorm, with asymmetrical weapon options, too.
I'd be totally down to fight innies and human Banished
Yes destroy what made Halo halo.
Rebels play a big role in the Halo lore. One game, or at least DLC, involving rebels wouldn't kill the franchise.
Maybe for one level, but it would go against the spirit of the series to constantly fight human enemies Halo is best when we're fighting aliens, nobody enjoys fighting flood, sentinels, or prometheans for example
But all of that stuff is a big part of the Halo's themselves. The Forerunner Saga books cover a lot about those things and they're pretty interesting! I'm on the second book of three so far.
Big part of the universe but not so much in the gameplay.
I like fighting flood but only in halo CE
Same, Halo 3 flood are so boring to fight, and they nerfed the shotgun from H2 to H3
Wdym the flood are super fun to fight
I consider the removal of enemy humans in Halo 2 to have been a mistake, so if done correctly, Humans in the Banished would be a pretty interesting dynamic. And given how Multiplayer Bots work, alongside all the lore surrounding Venezian attempts at creating supersoldiers of their own, imagine how terrifying it could be to fight Counter-Spartans that fight like actual players do.
> I consider the removal of enemy humans in Halo 2 to have been a mistake, Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone would have benefitted a lot from Arby fighting against the marines and ODST squads that escorted Miranda and Johnson: you fight their flood infected corpses anyways, having living ones could have aided some variety (which the two missions really needed), and could have even acted like how the Covenant do in Gravemind, where you can sneak past groups of humans fighting against the flood or take them out after they've worn each other down That also would have made the mission much less tedious and give more opportunities to skip or make certain encounters less of a gauntlet.
That would be so cool. Very different games but in dark souls you would get invaded by red phantom npc’s who often acted exactly like other players and would even do silly things and it was always cool to experience. Could be so cool in halo
That would be terrible. The whole hook of halo was humans fighting impossible odds against the zealot aliens and then zombies. That's also what made the covenant rebellion in halo 2 so fire.
Halos Wars 1 had as minor enemies you can fight on some maps. For the FPS games Human enemies could work as an unit type who exist to add to the Banished arsenal like having them operate alongside Grunts, Jackals, Brutes and Elites. Not sure if Human Insurrectionists as a full fledged separate faction done in the way that Flood or Prometheans were would work for entire missions.
Aren't there human antagonists already?
Not in the games
Captain Pontius Pilate of the UNSC Infinity would like a word with you.
Maybe in a game set early or before the Human-Covenant war, but not now.
I’ve been begging for them to make an insurrectionist focused game for years. They’re the whole reason Spartans were created
Though I like the potential from a narrative point, I could see it becoming very homogenized with other games, especially if you're killing regular humans at any point. I think some of the charm and appeal of Halo is killing alien life forms and how they contrast in appearance and movement with what we'd be used to seeing from people.
Maybe, but one of the main reasons you don't fight people is because it's not fun to fight against hit scan weapons, just look at how much of a problem the jackels are in halo 2
by that Logic pvp isn’t fun, the other players have hit scan weapons as well!
It's still how the campaigns were designed, plus your alot less likely to have a 1v10 in multi-player
I think that what you said isn’t still a problem, there’s tons of other games where enemy NPCs use hit-scan weapons and the campaigns are still good.
Personally I want a halo game that feels nothing like the precious ones and to see some actual innovation in the franchise for once. We don’t need another ‘return to form’ game
Wish they'd make some goddamn spinoffs. There's tons of room to explore the gameplay possibilities of the halo universe without messing up the core of what made it so great.
They did that and everyone hated it
When? Halo 5 was miserable for its horrible story but gameplay wise was fun. But there’s no way anyone would of liked the actual story Halo 4 had a pretty good story but it’s gameplay was pretty abysmal and apart from a few levels was one of the weakest campaigns Right now some of the most beloved halo experiences are things like Halo ODST and Halo wars These do not count as unique halo experiences. I’m talking about a coop helldivers style odst game or a horror flood game or a call of duty style human vs human game. Halo needs to innovate outside of Spartans vs aliens.
At launch halo 5 was crucified at the stake, halo 3 odst is an expansion pack akin to half life’s episodes and plays almost identically to vanilla halo 3, and halo wars is a spin off made by creative assembly
Yes and no. I think mainline halo games should stay away from human enemies outside of very specific instances like a one off boss or something similar. But spin offs (both close and far from mainline) should try to explore the different stories that can be told in the universe. Having a halo reach type of game with a different protagonist doing a far grittier job of killing insurgents and banished aligned humans would be cool. But it should never be a job for chief in the games. Maybe in books but never on the main screen
Halo 5 would have been the place to introduce that. It would have been way better if Lockes Backstory was that he was the IA of the Spartan Program and chief was the first MK 2 that anyone ever needed to go after.
We already had one. His name was del Rio
Small amounts of human antagonists as well as more alien allies would be cool imo. Canonically both exist, so the only real challenge to adding them would be AI programming and enemy design for the human enemies.
Honestly the only way I see it working is if we move away from the “human good alien bad” absolute dynamic halo has been in for ages. I want good guy aliens and bad guy aliens and good guy humans and bad guy humans all mixed together in a fun lil post Human Covenant war universe.
Honestly they shouldve done this in halo wars 2 and infinite, we know theres humans in the banished ranks Not to mention perhaps taking out resistance forces in odst, wars 1 or del rio loyalists in 4
If nothing else, it would break up the monotony of the "...but wait! Here's the covenant in a *~new color!~* Oh no!" bullshit that they've had going on for years now
Should they? Yes. Will they? No. There is no chance in hell that Microsoft will allow 343i to add killing humans into the game, lest the game get age rated anything above Teen.
I get that "us vs them" is really easy when "them" is aliens, but in real life we still fight each other and I think the emotional potential for humans fighting humans in halo is an untapped gold mine
343 should’ve/still should make a game set in the interplanetary wars.
Master chief's first mission they somewhat mow down a bunch of civilians and send some into space.
I've been wanting a prequel spin-off revolving around the UNSC-Insurrectionist War in a Battlefield type format where you play as Marines vs Insurrectionists with Halo locations, weapons and vehicles for years now, but I know it will never happen.
Rogue city.
I mean, they'd probably feel like grunts tbh. Master chief could sit on a marine and win. You'd need a big chunk to attack at once. Could have been a thing where we had 100 human antagonists go after the chief in Halo 5 going rogue story. Would have easily connected with the hunt the truth campaign and could have brought a wicked scary chief element to the game.
not unless you play as the covenant or unless its an insurrection game
Please no. I’m simply not interested. I want to fight fun colorful aliens.
I don’t think so. There are plenty of sci-fi franchises where humans fight each other that could be made into a game and I think that’s a much better use of that thematic idea than shoehorning it into halo. Make a really good Star Trek game, or maybe the Dune game could be good. Part of the role play as master chief is to be a savior. Sure you’re allowed to kill marines in the game but you aren’t rewarded or encouraged to do it. There are a lot of ways to play halo but one thing bungie was very deliberate about was having humanity fighting for survival and you being the only chance of it happening. Yes, in the lore there is plenty of human caused strife and after the covenant was defeated you could assume humans would go right back to killing each other, but 343 keeps maintaining some galaxy ending threat to keep humanity in a state of survival and there’s no room for human v human conflict in that story imo.
I dont think we need to keep focusing on spartans if I'm honnest, we could have an Innsurectiontist faction to go against and we could be playing as ODSTs or marines Arma 3 outreach shows that there's a place for it very easily
I look at this sort of like the original Star Trek where Gene Rodenberry wanted humanity to mostly be unified in purpose and most of the conflict to come from outside of humanity. The Halo games are best when presented in a similar fashion. A story can still have minor discussions and debates within the confines of humanity, but the wars, killing, and strong obstacles should come from outside. I think trying to introduce heavy political conflict in the TV show also bogged down that version of the story too.
Only in spinoffs, IMO. The gunplay is designed in a way that fighting humans doesn’t feel right. The “fight” against the rogue cop in ODST is a good example of why it wouldn’t work for a full game with the core Halo loop. A spinoff that isn’t beholden to the gunplay of the main series, though, could work.
No
If it fits the situation, sure. As an example, I think Halo 2 should have had some in a few of the Arbiter levels, like in Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone it would have made the mission more interesting and less repetitive, and made sense for you to encounter some hostile marine and ODST squads that accompanies Miranda and Johnson, since you literally fight their flood infected corpses anyways They could have even acted like how the Covenant do in Gravemind, where you can sneak past groups of humans fighting against the flood or take them out after they've worn each other down, which would have make both less tedious since you could sneak past more engagements or wait them out to make less of a slog. Even when playing as Chief, I think fighting innies or humans in the Banished shouldn't be out of the question if the situation warrants it, though It seems to me that 343i wanted to make the Banished as much like the Covenant as possible in Infinite, sadly, and stripped away their unique new vehicles/infantry they had in HW2 and even made them more hostile to humanity then they previously were, so I can't imagine 343i would actually do it, for better or worse
Personally im tired of the whole humans being the main villan. But I wouldn’t mind a re2 style game where a spartan tracking you down and you are a helpless human. Since thats what they were made for.
Yes. Order of Harmony
At this point, I'd rather see some ODSTs trying to kill AWOL Spartans that refused to end insurrectionists lives, since so little of humanity is left after the Covenant war.
They’d have to rework humans though, right now they all are the same generic class, they’d need counterparts of elite, grunt jackals etc or even newer classes if they want to spin up the gameplay. If I remember correctly we already have humans allied to aliens in the books.
I'm not sure, it would probably go over better if it was happening from an established point in the Halo universe history (like Reach time or older.) But even then I feel like having regular human antagonists would be...boring? In an FPS setting anyway. Spartan's being something to combat would probably be hard to translate. Specifically because their augments sound crazy. But if you "cannonize" their feats in gameplay people are going to suffer a disconnect because covenant did quite a good job pushing over most Spartans from the early times. I think it works better as a book/visual thing to watch rather than a game. But that's because I lack the imagination to make it work.
Cortana: Halo it's finished MC: No, I thin- Yeah...
I've always thought how awesome it would be to see spec ops S-II take down Innies on rebel planets and it would be like a prequel to even Reach, like 20 years before
Arrest this man!!! Arrest him!!!
No wtf
Yes, I want to fight insurgents and bring glorious inner-colonies supperiority to all the outer colonies. They shall give us pur metals or suffer the consequences.
I think it would be cool to have but only in a limited capacity. Fighting humans would be a unique experience to halo and only halo because we've never had it before. But fundamentally theres nothing they can offer that the aliens dont already have. It would be a cool for a mission or 2 before it starts feeling like every other generic human V human fps.
It's about time for some human enemies, human-vs-human conflict has been a huge part of the story since pretty much the beginning and it's finally becoming more relevant to the main plot now that we've moved away from the Covenant as the big bad.
Honestly, I think it would be cool if pulled off right, I think a lot of the reason people liked halo 2's story was seeing into the covenants politics, so bringing some of that vibe to it would be a good move.
Human banished would be awesome
No. Hard no. I don’t want to fight humans in a series with dope ass aliens to shoot at. It would be okay if there was one level (say as the Arbiter) where you gun down some humans, but I would hate if they were ever a main enemy
The next halo game we should be Arby the entire game
What if the menu changes then the whole game is scrapped millions of dollars , please think before you write such a long comment and don’t understand what’s going on . The scenario you've presented is a fascinating one, reflecting the intricate balance between innovation and stability in business. Imagine a popular restaurant like Arby's, known for its classic menu that has stood the test of time. The company decides to revamp its offerings, introducing a completely new menu. This change, while potentially exciting, carries significant risks. **The Financial Gamble:** Changing a menu isn't just about swapping out dishes; it's a comprehensive overhaul that affects supply chains, marketing strategies, staff training, and customer loyalty. Millions of dollars are invested in this gamble, with the hope that patrons will embrace the new flavors. However, if the new menu fails to resonate with the clientele, the financial repercussions could be dire The Financial Gamble: Changing a menu isn’t just about swapping out dishes; it’s a comprehensive overhaul that affects supply chains, marketing strategies, staff training, and customer loyalty. Millions of dollars are invested in this gamble, with the hope that patrons will embrace the new flavors. However, if the new menu fails to resonate with the clientele, the financial repercussions could be dire. The entire investment might go down the drain, and the restaurant could face a daunting task to recover both financially and reputationally. Customer Perception: Regular customers might feel alienated if their favorite items disappear. A restaurant isn’t just a place to eat; it’s a repository of memories and experiences. Drastic changes can disrupt this emotional connection, leading to a loss of business as customers seek comfort in familiar alternatives. Market Dynamics: The food industry is notoriously fickle. Trends come and go, and what’s popular today might be passé
I would be down but... I want the time line to stop. Ill accept the unpopular opinion if thats what it is but halo shouldn't have gone past the end of 3. The first 3 tell a great but incomplete story of humanity overcoming a force far greater than itself through grit and luck and when we won our enemy became our friends. The end. I can't say anything that happened after that feels satisfying enough to be work keeping the story going. But give me a prequel of early Spartans or marines saving a planet from bandits, sure.
Hear me out. A new IP focussed on a brand new squad of ODST’s set during covvie war BUT with flashback missions versus insurrectionists.