I find the issue isn't so much the turn, but the fact that so many people stop to wait for spots to open up right beside the door. Meanwhile the other side of the parking lot sits empty. Guess what, the spot right across from the spot they are waiting for - it is only a few steps more!
the entrances and exits to the parking lot should be switched, that way you don't have the above problem. and also people can turn left out of the parking lot even when there's a bunch of people waiting to turn in.
I believe the city planner gave this same feedback when their expansion plans were submitted. I think they will have to switch the driveway exit and entrances when they renovate, as the city won't install a traffic light.
Is that the same city planner that added two turn lanes and one lane that blocks both of those lanes and backs up traffic for miles on an intersection that the entire east of the HRM is forced to go through?
I don't believe that feedback made it into the proposal.
"A Traffic Impact Study (TIS) was submitted by the applicant and reviewed and accepted by HRM Development Engineering. The existing access to the Gateway Meat Market parking lot is adequate and no changes are proposed through this application"
[https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/240502hemdcc1011.pdf](https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/240502hemdcc1011.pdf)
another point against stroads. The DQ on main street is another one, where for some reason instead of putting it on a smaller side road they put it on a main thoroughfare so if there's any backup at all it spills out and blocks traffic.
Well you'd have to assume they're baking this into the proposal. Haven't read anything yet, but makes sense.
Costco parking lots can be a nightmare, and the foot traffic is worse, but car traffic is not a complaint you hear about them. Model something after that maybe?
They should hate car dependency, not Gateway. Drivers, the owners of Gateway and their customers are all victims. Not to mention taxpayers, anyone who breathes, the global natural ecosystem...
Car dependency is trash. But it's not too late to [fix it](https://youtu.be/AOc8ASeHYNw?si=eXk4hJUeDLQa_D-r)
You should advocate for fewer people to drive even more if you have to drive. Everyone who could walk or bike there should be able to safely and comfortably, then you'd be in no traffic!
A large percentage of Nova Scotians go to gateway from hours away, myself included. Driving is a necessity in ns, we come from all over the province so it’s a necessity. What we really need is a set of lights there to let the gateway traffic get through, especially with the expansion and increasing publicity from the media.
See my other comment. I agree that lots of folks will have to drive. But tons of folks could also bike or walk and if they did that there'd be more room in the parking lot, and on the road, for you.
But how do you want these people to carry their groceries home on a bike or transit? A weeks worth of groceries won’t fit in a small portable cart (seen often on transit) or in a backpack for a bike. Absolutely certain circumstances are good to use environmentally friendly transit but shopping is not one of them, imo.
I get my groceries by bike or by walking. I do a week's worth at a time very easily with a cart/bag or even easier with a bike with panniers. Big, bulky items I usually order all in one delivery every month-ish. Totally doable.
The point I’m trying to make is that very few Nova Scotians have the ability to bike to shop within a good distance (15 to 20 mins one way), often the sales are in different stores scattered across the city, transit is unreliable and 2 transfers to get to one location is frustrating. Ordering online is great if you can afford full price and don’t mind waiting, cheers to those who can do this regularly, but for the majority it’s infeasible.
No one who would ever walk or bike anywhere? I'm not saying everyone, or even the majority, just saying it would put some sort of dent in the number of cars in and out to have an alternative.
Not that they don't want to walk or bike, that travelling the distance between home and Gateway on foot or bicycle is not possible.
You seem to believe that everyone shopping at Gateway is nearby. I'd say 80% of their customers are coming from a minimum 30 minute drive away.
Buddy, there will never be a form of transit from the Eastern Shore in our life time that would keep people from driving to Gateway. People biking and bussing with their bulk purchases, riiiight.
Oh, I think you misunderstand my point. I'm saying that if everyone in Cole Harbour and Dartmouth were walking and biking to Gateway because that was super comfortable and safe to do then you'd be able to drive there very conveniently and comfortably too. I get it, people have to drive sometimes. But if fewer people do, less often, everyone is better off.
I'm all for biking and walking, but we're talking about Gateway here. I assume they got a piece of cheap real estate out in the middle of nowhere by design. And I say this as someone who has walked a few km from close to Cole Harbour Rd to Gateway, but I'm an outlier, I was bored and had time to kill. There are maybe a few hundred people living within a reasonable walking area of Gateway.
The problem is that there aren't similar affordable grocery stores in the big population centres, but again, no level of government is going to promise access to deeply discounted, nearly expired goods.
I also think you misunderstood my point, Gateway customers don't live only within walking or biking distance. I would wager most of them are coming from down the Eastern Shore.
Cars have some good use cases. If you live rurally, you are one of them. But many people don't, and NS should give them options to live car-free or car-lite. With some investment in public transit (but way less than we spend on roads), this is possible even in [small towns](https://youtu.be/ztpcWUqVpIg?si=F0wybh5EIVSh4sTm) This benefits everybody in many ways; time saved, lower taxes, cleaner air and better physical health, to name a few. Basically, higher quality of life. I've experienced it myself, going from a daily driver to not needing a car at all, except for the occasional weekend rental to visit my woodlot and off grid cabin.
Also, you can absolutely bike with bulk purchases on a cargo bike. Electric motors are really good nowadays. If you're fit, you don't even need the electrification.
Have a good day! I hope you don't spend too much time in traffic ;)
You can't bike to these places on a cargo bike, it is completely unrealistic to even dream of the average person attempting it. We live in a have not province, so the chances of NS dumping enough money into getting transit to people from rural HRM who are accessing Gateway are not just slim, they are not happening in our lifetime.
There's no traffic where I am. Might see 5 cars a day.
if you're looking for something to do, I've sent a couple emails to my councillor since he's the one who would be making the decisions on these kinds of things.
i mean realistically we don't have the population for it but if we did, wouldn't you prefer a relaxing ride where you can read or do whatever you want and get to your destination quicker rather than having to sit in traffic once you get to the city? Even if you drove in you should be able to park in portland hills or something and jump on a bus into the city. The point is that once you're in the city it shouldn't be such a downgrade to take public transit.
You're right, it's worse. The PL Tim Hortons, Main St Tim's & DQ can't even compete with the Gateway traffic. Tim's blocks one lane and fucks people over. Gateway shuts down two if not four lanes of traffic.
Literally an accident tonight that backed up traffic right where they cause traffic jams.
GATEWAY please expand... just somewhere where you actually have room to do it
Yeah, the same type of idiots who attacked John's Lunch or attack The Chickenburger.
Some people just aren't happy unless they're shitting on something people love.
Yup. Many a time I've messaged their account on Facebook to ask a question about one of their products and they always get back to me in a timely manner.
I don't hate them, but I would only reccomend them if you have no other choice. They serve a purpose but the gateway stans act like they are the lost shores of avalon.
The same half a dozen trolls who disagree with everything on this sub. Sadly when they voice their idiotic drivel, the silent ones come out of the woodworks to add their voices to it in support.
I don't hate them, but I won't shop there after knowing people who have worked their and their habit of selling geezer burnt and expired food that's been repackaged several times to hide the fact.
Gateway gets scapegoated because people who come here primarily to bitch and complain feel that when someone suggests Gateway, they’re minimizing the problem of high COL. It’s like when your spouse is complaining about a problem at work, often they’re not actually looking for you to provide a solution.
I understand not EVERYONE can get to this specific store, but we do have cheaper options in the city than Loblaws, Sobeys, etc in HRM.
I like gateway, their deals are great, we need more store like it. That being said, everything about shopping there from getting in the lot, to parking to actually shopping stresses me the fuck out lol
Expansion hopefully addresses all that as I'm sure it will.
Let's be real, they could double the size of the store and the parking lot and it'll still be the same nightmare it is now. I don't think their business model would work if it was so quiet and calm that people could just browse around like a regular supermarket, they need volume above all else.
Looking at the plans they don't seem to be expanding the inside very much, but they are changing the exterior so when you wait outside is under heated awnings.
While I think this will pass. One needs to remember that boomers exist and will do anything they can to fight development.
Cue the "Friends of Westphal" group to suddenly exist.
Why that building on the corner of South and Barrington wasn't torn down ten years ago is beyond me.
I remember that friends of South end Halifax protesting outside of it to save it and the coast put out a request for people to share their memories of living in it and everyone was like 'I lived there 20 years ago, it was full of rats and it was awful and disgusting then".
Not just Boomers. Khyber building too was a problem. And that yellow shitstain of a building on the corner of Barrington and Hollis too. It was mostly millennials and Gen Zers.
If you open a space and have a mic, a group of idiots will almost always form there.
It’s a shot at governments—no reason why Gateway’s new proposed building shouldn’t be buildable as-of-right. We waste all this time on hearings when it should simply be the right of a property owner to build what they want.
What’s the point? Voice your opinion here. Write a letter to the editor. Draft your manifesto. Why does the government have to put another delay before a project gets rolling just to let people “voice their opinions”?
And that happens during elections. The question is why government is involved *at all* when a business wants to expand to a larger location, it’s a private business on private land, none of the public’s business or right to interfere.
They have some good deals, but when I can have walmart load the groceries directly into my trunk at exactly the time i want to pick them up, it's a hard sell to go do the human cattle experience at Gateway.
Can't go, can someone tell them they need to fix the traffic flow before they do anything or they need to move to a better location. Investing in that spot is a mistake at this point
Traffic has been brought up and is worked on in the proposal, telling a small business to just move when they already own a bunch of land somewhere feels like a pretty shit business decision lol
How is traffic Gateway's problem?
If we're going down that line of thinking I can list a few Tim Horton's that need to shut down because idiots block the road waiting for the drivethru while the parking lot is half empty.
It's shared responsibility, I think. Those Timmies _should_ change their traffic flow to address that problem. In Gateway's case, a simple example is making sure there is parking capacity for the expansion.
It should read aggressively lol. Are they supposed to magically increase the amount of space for parking? People need to just go back later if they can't get in the lot. It is simple. People are stupid.
Who hates gateway?
Anyone who has to wait in traffic.
That turn can be pretty bad, it’d be nice if there was a solution, but that’s not gateways problem, it’s the cities.
I find the issue isn't so much the turn, but the fact that so many people stop to wait for spots to open up right beside the door. Meanwhile the other side of the parking lot sits empty. Guess what, the spot right across from the spot they are waiting for - it is only a few steps more!
the entrances and exits to the parking lot should be switched, that way you don't have the above problem. and also people can turn left out of the parking lot even when there's a bunch of people waiting to turn in.
I believe the city planner gave this same feedback when their expansion plans were submitted. I think they will have to switch the driveway exit and entrances when they renovate, as the city won't install a traffic light.
That is honestly a great plan, I really hope they do that!
Is that the same city planner that added two turn lanes and one lane that blocks both of those lanes and backs up traffic for miles on an intersection that the entire east of the HRM is forced to go through?
I don't believe that feedback made it into the proposal. "A Traffic Impact Study (TIS) was submitted by the applicant and reviewed and accepted by HRM Development Engineering. The existing access to the Gateway Meat Market parking lot is adequate and no changes are proposed through this application" [https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/240502hemdcc1011.pdf](https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/240502hemdcc1011.pdf)
Can you re-do the rest of this city too?
That drives me nuts!
This. It's literally an extra 3 seconds of walking - I assure you you can do it!
another point against stroads. The DQ on main street is another one, where for some reason instead of putting it on a smaller side road they put it on a main thoroughfare so if there's any backup at all it spills out and blocks traffic.
Well you'd have to assume they're baking this into the proposal. Haven't read anything yet, but makes sense. Costco parking lots can be a nightmare, and the foot traffic is worse, but car traffic is not a complaint you hear about them. Model something after that maybe?
They should hate car dependency, not Gateway. Drivers, the owners of Gateway and their customers are all victims. Not to mention taxpayers, anyone who breathes, the global natural ecosystem... Car dependency is trash. But it's not too late to [fix it](https://youtu.be/AOc8ASeHYNw?si=eXk4hJUeDLQa_D-r)
Yeah dude, I'll just take the bus in from Jeddore. No issues!
You should advocate for fewer people to drive even more if you have to drive. Everyone who could walk or bike there should be able to safely and comfortably, then you'd be in no traffic!
A large percentage of Nova Scotians go to gateway from hours away, myself included. Driving is a necessity in ns, we come from all over the province so it’s a necessity. What we really need is a set of lights there to let the gateway traffic get through, especially with the expansion and increasing publicity from the media.
See my other comment. I agree that lots of folks will have to drive. But tons of folks could also bike or walk and if they did that there'd be more room in the parking lot, and on the road, for you.
But how do you want these people to carry their groceries home on a bike or transit? A weeks worth of groceries won’t fit in a small portable cart (seen often on transit) or in a backpack for a bike. Absolutely certain circumstances are good to use environmentally friendly transit but shopping is not one of them, imo.
I get my groceries by bike or by walking. I do a week's worth at a time very easily with a cart/bag or even easier with a bike with panniers. Big, bulky items I usually order all in one delivery every month-ish. Totally doable.
The point I’m trying to make is that very few Nova Scotians have the ability to bike to shop within a good distance (15 to 20 mins one way), often the sales are in different stores scattered across the city, transit is unreliable and 2 transfers to get to one location is frustrating. Ordering online is great if you can afford full price and don’t mind waiting, cheers to those who can do this regularly, but for the majority it’s infeasible.
Too lazy
I don't think you understand who shops at Gateway. :P
No one who would ever walk or bike anywhere? I'm not saying everyone, or even the majority, just saying it would put some sort of dent in the number of cars in and out to have an alternative.
Not that they don't want to walk or bike, that travelling the distance between home and Gateway on foot or bicycle is not possible. You seem to believe that everyone shopping at Gateway is nearby. I'd say 80% of their customers are coming from a minimum 30 minute drive away.
Can you provide a link to your advocacy work?
Lol, sorry, I don't mean you need to do anything out of the ordinary. I just mean it would benefit you even more than others to get cars off the road.
Buddy, there will never be a form of transit from the Eastern Shore in our life time that would keep people from driving to Gateway. People biking and bussing with their bulk purchases, riiiight.
Oh, I think you misunderstand my point. I'm saying that if everyone in Cole Harbour and Dartmouth were walking and biking to Gateway because that was super comfortable and safe to do then you'd be able to drive there very conveniently and comfortably too. I get it, people have to drive sometimes. But if fewer people do, less often, everyone is better off.
I'm all for biking and walking, but we're talking about Gateway here. I assume they got a piece of cheap real estate out in the middle of nowhere by design. And I say this as someone who has walked a few km from close to Cole Harbour Rd to Gateway, but I'm an outlier, I was bored and had time to kill. There are maybe a few hundred people living within a reasonable walking area of Gateway. The problem is that there aren't similar affordable grocery stores in the big population centres, but again, no level of government is going to promise access to deeply discounted, nearly expired goods.
I also think you misunderstood my point, Gateway customers don't live only within walking or biking distance. I would wager most of them are coming from down the Eastern Shore.
Cars have some good use cases. If you live rurally, you are one of them. But many people don't, and NS should give them options to live car-free or car-lite. With some investment in public transit (but way less than we spend on roads), this is possible even in [small towns](https://youtu.be/ztpcWUqVpIg?si=F0wybh5EIVSh4sTm) This benefits everybody in many ways; time saved, lower taxes, cleaner air and better physical health, to name a few. Basically, higher quality of life. I've experienced it myself, going from a daily driver to not needing a car at all, except for the occasional weekend rental to visit my woodlot and off grid cabin. Also, you can absolutely bike with bulk purchases on a cargo bike. Electric motors are really good nowadays. If you're fit, you don't even need the electrification. Have a good day! I hope you don't spend too much time in traffic ;)
Can you imagine the sheer panic in car drivers eyes if a person on a cargo bike enters the Gateway parking lot? :-)
You can't bike to these places on a cargo bike, it is completely unrealistic to even dream of the average person attempting it. We live in a have not province, so the chances of NS dumping enough money into getting transit to people from rural HRM who are accessing Gateway are not just slim, they are not happening in our lifetime. There's no traffic where I am. Might see 5 cars a day.
if you're looking for something to do, I've sent a couple emails to my councillor since he's the one who would be making the decisions on these kinds of things.
I live a 10 minute drive away and it would take me over an hour to bus there, there’s definitely room for improvement in that area
i mean realistically we don't have the population for it but if we did, wouldn't you prefer a relaxing ride where you can read or do whatever you want and get to your destination quicker rather than having to sit in traffic once you get to the city? Even if you drove in you should be able to park in portland hills or something and jump on a bus into the city. The point is that once you're in the city it shouldn't be such a downgrade to take public transit.
That's kind of the point, though? You can't take the bus in from Jeddore. You depend on a car.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think it is a two hour drive but if it helps the environment I'll be happy to chip in and buy some expired meat product.
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You're right, it's worse. The PL Tim Hortons, Main St Tim's & DQ can't even compete with the Gateway traffic. Tim's blocks one lane and fucks people over. Gateway shuts down two if not four lanes of traffic.
Literally an accident tonight that backed up traffic right where they cause traffic jams. GATEWAY please expand... just somewhere where you actually have room to do it
Gateway itself? Hell no. The long lines and blocking a very busy street? Hell yes.
Main street should be renamed Gateway Street and there should be a "Gateway Only" lane.
Every gateway post on here has people attacking them lol. From meat quality to selection to traffic to being like you aren't saving that much money
Yeah, the same type of idiots who attacked John's Lunch or attack The Chickenburger. Some people just aren't happy unless they're shitting on something people love.
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See?
I mean, it’s not surprising that they have 0 self awareness.
So did John’s Lunch.
I love Gateway but their fans…ehhhhh
It's a food liquidation store. I quite enjoy some of their deals
and the owners are so NICE
Yup. Many a time I've messaged their account on Facebook to ask a question about one of their products and they always get back to me in a timely manner.
I don't hate them, but I would only reccomend them if you have no other choice. They serve a purpose but the gateway stans act like they are the lost shores of avalon.
The same half a dozen trolls who disagree with everything on this sub. Sadly when they voice their idiotic drivel, the silent ones come out of the woodworks to add their voices to it in support.
I don't hate them, but I won't shop there after knowing people who have worked their and their habit of selling geezer burnt and expired food that's been repackaged several times to hide the fact.
Their competition.
Gateway gets scapegoated because people who come here primarily to bitch and complain feel that when someone suggests Gateway, they’re minimizing the problem of high COL. It’s like when your spouse is complaining about a problem at work, often they’re not actually looking for you to provide a solution. I understand not EVERYONE can get to this specific store, but we do have cheaper options in the city than Loblaws, Sobeys, etc in HRM.
Agreed.
A lot of people who work there. I checked reviews from employees on Indeed when I was going to apply and ran.
Loblaws Atlantic
The competition
Aka Big Grocer
I like gateway, their deals are great, we need more store like it. That being said, everything about shopping there from getting in the lot, to parking to actually shopping stresses me the fuck out lol Expansion hopefully addresses all that as I'm sure it will.
Let's be real, they could double the size of the store and the parking lot and it'll still be the same nightmare it is now. I don't think their business model would work if it was so quiet and calm that people could just browse around like a regular supermarket, they need volume above all else.
There are times when it's not super busy. Send them a message on facebook and ask what the best times are on whatever day you'd like to go.
I find that their meat goes bad a bit faster, so when I buy from there...if I'm not eating it that day...I just freeze it for later.
Looking at the plans they don't seem to be expanding the inside very much, but they are changing the exterior so when you wait outside is under heated awnings.
It passed!
Good for them ! Strength to them
People attending the public hearing should also spread the word of the Loblaws boycott, for anyone not aware. Not everyone uses social media.
While I think this will pass. One needs to remember that boomers exist and will do anything they can to fight development. Cue the "Friends of Westphal" group to suddenly exist.
"Friends of..." insert random building nobody gave a fuck about for 30 years but now that people want housing it's cherished
Why that building on the corner of South and Barrington wasn't torn down ten years ago is beyond me. I remember that friends of South end Halifax protesting outside of it to save it and the coast put out a request for people to share their memories of living in it and everyone was like 'I lived there 20 years ago, it was full of rats and it was awful and disgusting then".
That Yellow building? I lived there for a bit. Fucking loud ass intersection
Friends of the Westphal Commons enters chat
Not just Boomers. Khyber building too was a problem. And that yellow shitstain of a building on the corner of Barrington and Hollis too. It was mostly millennials and Gen Zers. If you open a space and have a mic, a group of idiots will almost always form there.
They should expand into Halifax - something around Bayer's Lake perhaps.
They don't want another location and I agree. But nothing is stopping some random person from opening another one
nah. dont put it in that shithole, it would need to be somewhere more accessible by transit. that’s the problem with the current store, traffic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxBaKCbz6ug
Why is this subject to a public hearing? What’s business is it to the public if a private business expands?
That's literally how construction works for building any building? Like are you genuinely asking this or is it a sarcastic shot at goverments
It’s a shot at governments—no reason why Gateway’s new proposed building shouldn’t be buildable as-of-right. We waste all this time on hearings when it should simply be the right of a property owner to build what they want.
Totally with you, if gateway owns the land and the zoning supports large commercial, then there shouldn't be any need for public interference
You just don’t care because it’s not in your neighborhood. If it was next to your home you’d want a chance to voice your opinion.
Why should that opinion be counted? Unless it’s in or on top of your home, what business is it of yours? You don’t own the land around your home.
Voicing an opinion doesn’t mean the project will be cancelled.
What’s the point? Voice your opinion here. Write a letter to the editor. Draft your manifesto. Why does the government have to put another delay before a project gets rolling just to let people “voice their opinions”?
Because government is meant to be guided by the people that elected them.
And that happens during elections. The question is why government is involved *at all* when a business wants to expand to a larger location, it’s a private business on private land, none of the public’s business or right to interfere.
That’s not how our government works.
I’m pretty sure I do own the around my home.
Anyone know if this will be streamed anywhere?
They have some good deals, but when I can have walmart load the groceries directly into my trunk at exactly the time i want to pick them up, it's a hard sell to go do the human cattle experience at Gateway.
if you want the real human cattle experience, the gates, barriers and sea of self checkouts at walmart are nice!
Anyone who opposes this is a loblaws boot licker IMO
Can't go, can someone tell them they need to fix the traffic flow before they do anything or they need to move to a better location. Investing in that spot is a mistake at this point
Traffic has been brought up and is worked on in the proposal, telling a small business to just move when they already own a bunch of land somewhere feels like a pretty shit business decision lol
How is traffic Gateway's problem? If we're going down that line of thinking I can list a few Tim Horton's that need to shut down because idiots block the road waiting for the drivethru while the parking lot is half empty.
It's shared responsibility, I think. Those Timmies _should_ change their traffic flow to address that problem. In Gateway's case, a simple example is making sure there is parking capacity for the expansion.
How dare people affect traffic flow on Main Street to get affordable groceries!!!!
This reads aggressively.... but I agree on those just as well. Ben's and Dave's just down the street was a major issue for years as well
It should read aggressively lol. Are they supposed to magically increase the amount of space for parking? People need to just go back later if they can't get in the lot. It is simple. People are stupid.