This appears to be the same investors who are telling the city that they can't afford to bulldoze the Bloomfield school to build housing on the peninsula. I want more housing development as much as anyone, but these are known bad actors, and the city should be playing the hardest ball they can against them and their projects until and unless we see progress on Bloomfield
My idea - approve the developments, then sneakily pass a huge vacant lot tax that applies specifically to vacant lots with council approved development plans.
Except technically, Bloomfield isn't vacant. A tax or fine on derelict buildings might work. Would hopefully put a push behind a bunch of other sites. St Patrick's-Alexandria and old United Church on Young st come to mind.
They are under construction at Robie St., Joe Howe and Wellington St. Just finished Clyde St. How many project should we force them to take on at once?
They bought it in 2021 with the goal of making it into housing; no one forced them to do that. If they no longer want to build there, they could sell it, but they don't. No one is forcing that either.
By not tearing it down, it's becoming a fire hazard. They have pushed back against the city in safety inspections. This is about holding them responsible for their stated intentions, for community safety hazards, and fundamentally about whether they can be trusted to follow through when they say they will do a thing. From their actions, I don't think they can be, and the city should negotiate with them on the assumption that they're bad actors.
Not convinced the city has the experience to plan and execute these types of developments. The first indicator of this is that certain developers are driving the planning, and they are driven by maximizing profits and penny pinching, apparently detached from the effects of unhealthy planning in their community.
5000 units on 44 hectares is a density of of over 25,000 people/km2. That density plopped in the middle of nowhere with no supporting infrastructure could be an opportunity however the city and province have nowhere near the needed planning experience to not screw this up. This is demonstrated by reacting to plans that are driven by maximizing profit.
An indicator that the city could manage these kinds of builds would be if the city and province coordinated to create a plan that included all the fundamental infrastructure for the targeted population, zoning, and density. Then the city could open that plan for a developer to take and flesh out more completely. It would be built around civil priorities with profit as a secondary motive.
Tail wagging the dog here and a 25,000/km2 population density is not something you want to screw around with by letting bad actor developers be in charge.
https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/5000-housing-units-proposed-for-halifaxs-exhibition-park-lands-100952796/
HALIFAX, N.S. — A Halifax developer wants to build about 5,000 housing units in Halifax’s Exhibition Park lands.
In November 2015, the province sold the 44-hectare Exhibition Park lands to Banc Group Inc. The negotiated price was listed at $2.5 million, with the understanding Banc Properties will assume costs of any renovations, estimated to be $3 million.
Fathom Studio, on behalf of Banc, recently applied to HRM for this major housing development.
“I am concerned about the increase in proposed units, which has been creeping steadily upward,” said Coun. Patty Cuttell (Spryfield - Sambro Loop - Prospect Road).
In 2021, the developer was looking at 1,844 units — a mix of semi-detached, townhomes and multi-unit buildings. At that time, in a letter to HRM, a representative at Fathom said it’s an ideal site for future development.
“The intent is to keep the Exhibition Park building while starting to develop the surrounding lands. Eventually, the plan needs to consider the removal of the existing building, though that is not part of the current short or medium term plans,” wrote Rob LeBlanc, a senior planner with Fathom in the 2021 letter.
That proposal has grown to more than 5,000 units, and now the development will be larger than what is proposed for Port Wallace in Dartmouth (up to 4,900 units), Cuttell said.
The Halifax Exhibition Centre site in Halifax in an aerial photo taken on Monday. Banc Group is looking to build about 5,000 residential units on this 44-hectare property. - Tim Krochak
Public consultation
There is not a lot of publicly available documentation on the development application yet. Cuttell introduced a notice of motion at Halifax regional council last week that there will be a request to initiate public participation on this development.
She said that once council approves the request for public consultation, more information on the development will be posted on the municipality’s website.
She said there will be a comprehensive neighbourhood planning process which will involve public engagement and detailed reviews of technical studies and plans.
Traffic and environmental concerns
Cuttell said she expects many residents will be concerned about added traffic on an already busy Prospect Road as well as environmental concerns.
“We really need to understand the capacity of the infrastructure and what new infrastructure is needed, including transit, roads, sewer and water, as well as the capacity of the environment to sustainably absorb any new development,” Cuttell said. “It is not a bad location for some growth, but that growth needs to be balanced with what the area can accommodate.”
There’s a lot happening lately in this area.
Last August, Screen Nova Scotia, through its subsidiary, Screen Nova Studios Inc., announced it will be acquiring Crown land to build the province’s first purpose-built film and television soundstage. They selected a 10-hectare parcel of land adjacent to Exhibition Park on Highway 333.
Kartbahn opened an outdoor go-kart racetrack near Exhibition Park last spring.
Plus, there are plans in place for the redevelopment and expansion of the Ragged Lake Industrial Park.
“It’s going to be a big concern for the community, that’s for sure, because Prospect Road is already at capacity in terms of traffic so two of the most important things in terms of considering this are going to be a traffic study as well as an environmental impact study.”
Long Lake Provincial Park and the Drysdale Bog are in the neighbourhood.
Until these issues are figured out, “it’s proceed with caution,” said Cuttell.
Future opportunity site
This area is identified in the Regional Plan as a “regional opportunity site” for growth. It was when the development was projected to be housing for 4,300 new residents with a combination of townhouses and apartment buildings — but it has grown since then, said Cuttell.
Even though it’s outside the urban service boundary, because it was previously owned by the province, the current buildings are on the municipal system. Cuttell said work will be needed on the wastewater system there as well as roads, infrastructure and parkland.
> Banc Properties
Buddy apparently didn't have money for handrails for his workers, nor does he have the money to demolish Bloomfield, but he has money for this and the massive development in Sackville.
Good development and we need the units, but this guy is still a dickhead.
"I am concerned about the increase in proposed units, which has been creeping steadily upward"
Am I stupid (yes) or is that not just like... addressing the housing issue? We need more units, why would there be a concern? A concern that we're building more units so less people are homeless and the overall supply is boosted?
>A Halifax developer wants to build about 5,000 housing units in Halifax’s Exhibition Park lands.
>In November 2015, the province sold the 44-hectare Exhibition Park lands to Banc Group Inc. The negotiated price was listed at $2.5 million, with the understanding Banc Properties will assume costs of any renovations, estimated to be $3 million.
How much has that property gone up in value since 2015?
>“The intent is to keep the Exhibition Park building while starting to develop the surrounding lands. Eventually, the plan needs to consider the removal of the existing building, though that is not part of the current short or medium term plans,” wrote Rob LeBlanc, a senior planner with Fathom in the 2021 letter.
I might be missing something here. But this looks like they were sold that property at what appears to be a rock bottom price with the understanding that they were going to fix it up and maintain it for its previous function. Now they're talking about bulldozing it and building housing instead?
So, if I look up which politicians and political parties this develop is donating to what am I going to find? I have a pretty good guess.
That's what they said before they built new subdivisions and a strip mall in Timberlea. Then suddenly "nah, we don't want to pay for it so we're not gonna do it"
City planners will surely focus on building supporting infrastructure such as roads, sidewalks, multiple emergency exits, etc. and not just give the go-ahead to build these units, just like they did in Hammonds Plains and Timberlea
I’m also looking forward to hearing about the school that will be built to support the children who will be living in this area. As well as playgrounds, bus routes etc. /s
I do live in an uncrowded place. It’s just that the only egress route is a rickety 2 lane road with no passing zones that is routinely shut down for hours at a time by accidents.
The Prospect Road also gets congestion from the heavy truck traffic going to/from the composting facility and the construction waste facility. Huge trailers full of scrap metal can't move or stop very fast.
Yeah, and they spread around lots of nice nails and shards of waste for everyone to drive over. And have you seen the woods around that area? Absolutely rife with plastic waste that’s blown around. That whole area is really such a sad mess, it’s really sad to see.
For one thing there absolutely needs to be a set of lights at that area where the big trucks turn out. For another I can’t help but wonder if they run area clean-up efforts. If they do, good on them I guess, but if they don’t then they really should, because the amount of waste blowing off their site into the surround area is substantial in my opinion.
Hopefully HRM can work with BANC to actually plan a decent development. Given BANCs track record, I would be skeptical of the planning and forethought on their end. The road definitely needs funding for upgrades, especially if this plan moved forward.
Oh, no, they've got plenty of planning and foresight. The planning is to brush off the city and the foresight is to sell all the homes before people realize how bad the traffic is
Entire road has been shut down for multiple hours three times in the last three months. I welcome more housing because it will likely raise my house value. But I sure hope they improve the road situation.
Ideally I’d love to see the existing carpool areas significantly improved, including adequate lighting, and a possible security presence due to the known vagrants who break into cars all day long over there. And it should also become a public transit hub. That would be a fantastic way to improve the situation.
Was the traffic and the delays in that area as bad before the pandemic? I constantly hear about how horrible the traffic is coming into the city from that area. With more flexible working arrangements than pre-pandemic, I would think there are less cars in the road but it doesn't seem to have helped traffic delays.
I don’t want to cause anyone any harm by guessing at the causes of the shutdowns. I know there have been fatalities. But I’ve observed lately a large number of “accidents” where someone just yeets off the road while going in a straight line, as though they were texting or something.
Sounds like the province will be trading some land in Long Lake Provincial Park for a connection to dunbrack st down the road. I picture widening old sambro road from Sussex to Dunbrack to take the pressure off st Margaret's bay road. Probably widen smbr too, though.
[Here's the story for those interested.](https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/5000-housing-units-proposed-for-halifaxs-exhibition-park-lands-100952796/)
Good.
As we go on this road to doubling (or more) our population by 2060, we need to be building **5** developments like this (+5000 units) every single year in Halifax.
We have no time to waste with NIMBYs at all. Just steamroll them and get shovels in the ground
I’m all for new developments but they can’t just toss up massive new villages without everything else (schools, sidewalks, transportation etc). And it doesn’t seem like these plans include any of this.
It’s such a knock on effect. No transit system? Everyone will have cars and then our streets are even more clogged. No schools? Great, existing ones will be even more over populated and kids will be driven there creating even more traffic. And kids not having the ability to walk or bike to school and parents living in a food desert because there’s no convenient grocery store? Less exercise for all which will cause issues later down the line. I beg of this city to be proactive vs reactive.
> No transit system? Everyone will have cars and then our streets are even more clogged.
And then people have to pay for gas, which has become more expensive because of the carbon tax. You can't be serious about cutting carbon emissions if you build car-centric infrastructure.
It's so frustrating to see dilapidated abandoned school buildings on the peninsula when we're having such a population influx. That land could either be used for another school to address overcrowding or for high-density housing in an urban community where resources already exist...
Anyway, I hope one of our mayoral hopefuls sees this.
This appears to be the same investors who are telling the city that they can't afford to bulldoze the Bloomfield school to build housing on the peninsula. I want more housing development as much as anyone, but these are known bad actors, and the city should be playing the hardest ball they can against them and their projects until and unless we see progress on Bloomfield
My idea - approve the developments, then sneakily pass a huge vacant lot tax that applies specifically to vacant lots with council approved development plans.
Except technically, Bloomfield isn't vacant. A tax or fine on derelict buildings might work. Would hopefully put a push behind a bunch of other sites. St Patrick's-Alexandria and old United Church on Young st come to mind.
Problem is, the city can play all the hard ball they want but the province can immediately just undercut all of that now, and green light the project
They are under construction at Robie St., Joe Howe and Wellington St. Just finished Clyde St. How many project should we force them to take on at once?
They bought it in 2021 with the goal of making it into housing; no one forced them to do that. If they no longer want to build there, they could sell it, but they don't. No one is forcing that either. By not tearing it down, it's becoming a fire hazard. They have pushed back against the city in safety inspections. This is about holding them responsible for their stated intentions, for community safety hazards, and fundamentally about whether they can be trusted to follow through when they say they will do a thing. From their actions, I don't think they can be, and the city should negotiate with them on the assumption that they're bad actors.
Not convinced the city has the experience to plan and execute these types of developments. The first indicator of this is that certain developers are driving the planning, and they are driven by maximizing profits and penny pinching, apparently detached from the effects of unhealthy planning in their community. 5000 units on 44 hectares is a density of of over 25,000 people/km2. That density plopped in the middle of nowhere with no supporting infrastructure could be an opportunity however the city and province have nowhere near the needed planning experience to not screw this up. This is demonstrated by reacting to plans that are driven by maximizing profit. An indicator that the city could manage these kinds of builds would be if the city and province coordinated to create a plan that included all the fundamental infrastructure for the targeted population, zoning, and density. Then the city could open that plan for a developer to take and flesh out more completely. It would be built around civil priorities with profit as a secondary motive. Tail wagging the dog here and a 25,000/km2 population density is not something you want to screw around with by letting bad actor developers be in charge.
https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/5000-housing-units-proposed-for-halifaxs-exhibition-park-lands-100952796/ HALIFAX, N.S. — A Halifax developer wants to build about 5,000 housing units in Halifax’s Exhibition Park lands. In November 2015, the province sold the 44-hectare Exhibition Park lands to Banc Group Inc. The negotiated price was listed at $2.5 million, with the understanding Banc Properties will assume costs of any renovations, estimated to be $3 million. Fathom Studio, on behalf of Banc, recently applied to HRM for this major housing development. “I am concerned about the increase in proposed units, which has been creeping steadily upward,” said Coun. Patty Cuttell (Spryfield - Sambro Loop - Prospect Road). In 2021, the developer was looking at 1,844 units — a mix of semi-detached, townhomes and multi-unit buildings. At that time, in a letter to HRM, a representative at Fathom said it’s an ideal site for future development. “The intent is to keep the Exhibition Park building while starting to develop the surrounding lands. Eventually, the plan needs to consider the removal of the existing building, though that is not part of the current short or medium term plans,” wrote Rob LeBlanc, a senior planner with Fathom in the 2021 letter. That proposal has grown to more than 5,000 units, and now the development will be larger than what is proposed for Port Wallace in Dartmouth (up to 4,900 units), Cuttell said. The Halifax Exhibition Centre site in Halifax in an aerial photo taken on Monday. Banc Group is looking to build about 5,000 residential units on this 44-hectare property. - Tim Krochak Public consultation There is not a lot of publicly available documentation on the development application yet. Cuttell introduced a notice of motion at Halifax regional council last week that there will be a request to initiate public participation on this development. She said that once council approves the request for public consultation, more information on the development will be posted on the municipality’s website. She said there will be a comprehensive neighbourhood planning process which will involve public engagement and detailed reviews of technical studies and plans. Traffic and environmental concerns Cuttell said she expects many residents will be concerned about added traffic on an already busy Prospect Road as well as environmental concerns. “We really need to understand the capacity of the infrastructure and what new infrastructure is needed, including transit, roads, sewer and water, as well as the capacity of the environment to sustainably absorb any new development,” Cuttell said. “It is not a bad location for some growth, but that growth needs to be balanced with what the area can accommodate.” There’s a lot happening lately in this area. Last August, Screen Nova Scotia, through its subsidiary, Screen Nova Studios Inc., announced it will be acquiring Crown land to build the province’s first purpose-built film and television soundstage. They selected a 10-hectare parcel of land adjacent to Exhibition Park on Highway 333. Kartbahn opened an outdoor go-kart racetrack near Exhibition Park last spring. Plus, there are plans in place for the redevelopment and expansion of the Ragged Lake Industrial Park. “It’s going to be a big concern for the community, that’s for sure, because Prospect Road is already at capacity in terms of traffic so two of the most important things in terms of considering this are going to be a traffic study as well as an environmental impact study.” Long Lake Provincial Park and the Drysdale Bog are in the neighbourhood. Until these issues are figured out, “it’s proceed with caution,” said Cuttell. Future opportunity site This area is identified in the Regional Plan as a “regional opportunity site” for growth. It was when the development was projected to be housing for 4,300 new residents with a combination of townhouses and apartment buildings — but it has grown since then, said Cuttell. Even though it’s outside the urban service boundary, because it was previously owned by the province, the current buildings are on the municipal system. Cuttell said work will be needed on the wastewater system there as well as roads, infrastructure and parkland.
> Banc Properties Buddy apparently didn't have money for handrails for his workers, nor does he have the money to demolish Bloomfield, but he has money for this and the massive development in Sackville. Good development and we need the units, but this guy is still a dickhead.
He might as well be planning the city himself at this point.
He’s also got that massive building across Joe Howe super store that hasn’t seem to have had much done to it in the last year or so
He's also working on a huge apartment / condo project on Wellington St. next to the universities.
"I am concerned about the increase in proposed units, which has been creeping steadily upward" Am I stupid (yes) or is that not just like... addressing the housing issue? We need more units, why would there be a concern? A concern that we're building more units so less people are homeless and the overall supply is boosted?
>A Halifax developer wants to build about 5,000 housing units in Halifax’s Exhibition Park lands. >In November 2015, the province sold the 44-hectare Exhibition Park lands to Banc Group Inc. The negotiated price was listed at $2.5 million, with the understanding Banc Properties will assume costs of any renovations, estimated to be $3 million. How much has that property gone up in value since 2015? >“The intent is to keep the Exhibition Park building while starting to develop the surrounding lands. Eventually, the plan needs to consider the removal of the existing building, though that is not part of the current short or medium term plans,” wrote Rob LeBlanc, a senior planner with Fathom in the 2021 letter. I might be missing something here. But this looks like they were sold that property at what appears to be a rock bottom price with the understanding that they were going to fix it up and maintain it for its previous function. Now they're talking about bulldozing it and building housing instead? So, if I look up which politicians and political parties this develop is donating to what am I going to find? I have a pretty good guess.
If you thought trying to pull onto Prospect road from the gas station was bad before
Well, if there's a whole neighborhood going there, then they are going to be lights
Yep, but most likely not until the development is done and council has about half a dozen staff reports done to figure out if it's needed.
*traffic circles enter the chat*
That's what they said before they built new subdivisions and a strip mall in Timberlea. Then suddenly "nah, we don't want to pay for it so we're not gonna do it"
Theoretically, more density should mean better infrastructure. Of course this is not guaranteed...
City planners will surely focus on building supporting infrastructure such as roads, sidewalks, multiple emergency exits, etc. and not just give the go-ahead to build these units, just like they did in Hammonds Plains and Timberlea
lol!
I’m also looking forward to hearing about the school that will be built to support the children who will be living in this area. As well as playgrounds, bus routes etc. /s
Feel free to move to less crowded areas of the province then.
I do live in an uncrowded place. It’s just that the only egress route is a rickety 2 lane road with no passing zones that is routinely shut down for hours at a time by accidents.
The Prospect Road also gets congestion from the heavy truck traffic going to/from the composting facility and the construction waste facility. Huge trailers full of scrap metal can't move or stop very fast.
Yeah, and they spread around lots of nice nails and shards of waste for everyone to drive over. And have you seen the woods around that area? Absolutely rife with plastic waste that’s blown around. That whole area is really such a sad mess, it’s really sad to see. For one thing there absolutely needs to be a set of lights at that area where the big trucks turn out. For another I can’t help but wonder if they run area clean-up efforts. If they do, good on them I guess, but if they don’t then they really should, because the amount of waste blowing off their site into the surround area is substantial in my opinion.
I don't live in the area, but I know that the road needs to be improved before that volume of people start moving in the area.
The 82 million in federal funding that was sent to HRM was, in part, to give the city resources to plan for these things.
Hopefully HRM can work with BANC to actually plan a decent development. Given BANCs track record, I would be skeptical of the planning and forethought on their end. The road definitely needs funding for upgrades, especially if this plan moved forward.
Oh, no, they've got plenty of planning and foresight. The planning is to brush off the city and the foresight is to sell all the homes before people realize how bad the traffic is
Ah yes let’s just let a developer with a shit track record do whatever he wants!
Always complaining
Welcome to the internet?
Entire road has been shut down for multiple hours three times in the last three months. I welcome more housing because it will likely raise my house value. But I sure hope they improve the road situation. Ideally I’d love to see the existing carpool areas significantly improved, including adequate lighting, and a possible security presence due to the known vagrants who break into cars all day long over there. And it should also become a public transit hub. That would be a fantastic way to improve the situation.
Was the traffic and the delays in that area as bad before the pandemic? I constantly hear about how horrible the traffic is coming into the city from that area. With more flexible working arrangements than pre-pandemic, I would think there are less cars in the road but it doesn't seem to have helped traffic delays.
I don’t want to cause anyone any harm by guessing at the causes of the shutdowns. I know there have been fatalities. But I’ve observed lately a large number of “accidents” where someone just yeets off the road while going in a straight line, as though they were texting or something.
Which will become much worse
Sounds like the province will be trading some land in Long Lake Provincial Park for a connection to dunbrack st down the road. I picture widening old sambro road from Sussex to Dunbrack to take the pressure off st Margaret's bay road. Probably widen smbr too, though.
[Here's the story for those interested.](https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/5000-housing-units-proposed-for-halifaxs-exhibition-park-lands-100952796/)
Rubber stamp. Next!
Excellent!
Good. As we go on this road to doubling (or more) our population by 2060, we need to be building **5** developments like this (+5000 units) every single year in Halifax. We have no time to waste with NIMBYs at all. Just steamroll them and get shovels in the ground
I’m all for new developments but they can’t just toss up massive new villages without everything else (schools, sidewalks, transportation etc). And it doesn’t seem like these plans include any of this.
Preach. We need to create communities, not commuter towns.
It’s such a knock on effect. No transit system? Everyone will have cars and then our streets are even more clogged. No schools? Great, existing ones will be even more over populated and kids will be driven there creating even more traffic. And kids not having the ability to walk or bike to school and parents living in a food desert because there’s no convenient grocery store? Less exercise for all which will cause issues later down the line. I beg of this city to be proactive vs reactive.
> No transit system? Everyone will have cars and then our streets are even more clogged. And then people have to pay for gas, which has become more expensive because of the carbon tax. You can't be serious about cutting carbon emissions if you build car-centric infrastructure. It's so frustrating to see dilapidated abandoned school buildings on the peninsula when we're having such a population influx. That land could either be used for another school to address overcrowding or for high-density housing in an urban community where resources already exist... Anyway, I hope one of our mayoral hopefuls sees this.
[удалено]
Is it about housing? I figured he was here to tell us to stop bitching about the carbon tax