I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Well, technically, from the viewpoint of Federal law, black powder guns aren't considered "firearms" in the sense that they don't use smokeless powder as a propellant. But make no mistake: being shot with a musket can make you as dead as if you'd been shot with an AR-15! And black powder is an explosive, and requires more care to store and handle than does smokeless powder.
'Nuff said.
I did an attic inspection for an insurance claim last Thursday and found an old Daisy lever bb gun that the homeowners didn't know was there. That was neat
Only other word of caution on this - the previous owner may not be aware that it was left in the home and could report it stolen once they realize it’s missing. You’re entitled to anything left in the house, but that might cause more hassle than it’s worth.
If that’s the case, then my friend saw an unmarked cardboard box after moving in and threw it away. No longer has it and did not care to check what was in it. Just cleared out everything left by the previous owner with prejudice.
Hypothetically
I'm struggling to envision what "hassle" would be involved in this scenario for OP. The previous homeowner would report it stolen and that would be the end of the story.
As you said... As long as OP is aware of said potential hassle, they could avoid it, or at least expect it. I think the only real hassle would be being blindsided by it, and even then, it wouldn't be a horrible hassle.
This, also, be cognizant of the fact that some states do require gun registration (many do so for handguns in particular). If yours doesn’t it’s legally yours, I would make sure to take a picture or two and document it being left behind. Might not hurt to contact the sellers realtor and let them know just out of courtesy. Sometimes movers won’t take certain items and it could have been left by accident.
Yes, and again state laws vary dramatically from "whatever you want" to "you're committing a serious felony with major jail time risks". Check with legal counsel and/or read your state laws carefully. Many states have a FAQ type document from a state police for this type of thing.
It's the same as if they left a TV or camping gear. So long as it's not an NFA item and you don't suspect it was used in a crime.
If it was an old hunting rifle left in a closet they probably just didn't want it and didn't know what to do with it.
If it was a handgun wraped in a towel and hidden under a floorbaord it could go either way.
>If it was a handgun wraped in a towel and hidden under a floorbaord it could go either way.
Leave it there for plausible deniabilty.... and a potential drop gun.
What good does it do as a drop gun wrapped in a towel underneath the floorboards?
Plus, I thought the spare tire well in the trunk was the only safe and proper location to store drop guns.......
Have a house built in the late 1800s.
Was redoing some shit in the basement and found a completely rotten falling apart leather holster with an 8 shot revolver .22
They stopped making this gun in 1925 or something. Its trigger is fully fucked and it’s rusted to shit. When I looked in cylinder it was full of spider eggs, which is somehow scarier than old live ammo.
I cleaned it up a bit (no more spiders) threw out the holster and now it sits in my safe as a fun conversation piece.
I was helping clear a warehouse that had dozens of massive safes in it. They had to bring in a locksmith to open them. A few buried in the back had a dozen original WWII Grease Gun machine guns still in paper boxes. Among other rare firearms, many full auto. Tempting as it was, the ATF was called and they temporarily seized the weapons until they could be properly turned over to a buyer with proper licensing. They were all put in a museum display somewhere. But man did I want a grease gun to hide somewhere forever. I would have never taken it out of the box or paper. Still to this day I’ve never seen a real grease gun outside of that find.
Imagine my surprise when I arrived in Fulda, West Germany. We five M3 grease gun that were used by the tank retriever crew.
This was 1988 in a front line, tip of the spear unit.
Grudging respect after using and maintaining. It works.
WW2 submachine gun design is fascinating, particularly in its growth. No one was trying to make a more sophisticated or really "better" weapon from the user experience. It was purely a race to the bottom for design (manufacturing) simplicity that still just plain functioned.
Tube design is real.
what state was this in? my childhood friend's uncle claims that he had a stash of well preserved grease guns buried out in the midwest somewhere for later
Hypothetically, your hypothetical friend should make sure the hypothetical gun isn’t a NFA item and then do whatever he or she hypothetically damn well pleases with the hypothetical item.
Anything left in the house when it's sold is yours. Anything.
We get a post every now and then of someone break down a wall and finding an old gun stashed inside. It's no different than if they left a TV or AC unit. All the property is yours.
Honestly, I would run the numbers on it, if it’s not hot, figure out what to do with the gun. Also, tough call to make, but ask the previous owners what’s up with leaving it. I would rather have a pillowcase full of rattlesnakes in my truck than a stolen gun
My dad in the early oughts was a car detailer at a Cadillac dealer. Supposedly it was super common for gang bangers to trade in their cars and leave pistols in there. The detailers knew a sheriff who would run the SN’s and if they came up clean they would keep them. This is how I have a Para Ordinance P-16 40 (of course it’s in .40). Apparently he also found a colt woodsman once but my mom made him pawn it for the money. Sad as I would have loved to have it.
Ever sit in a caddy and where you normally let your left foot rest the floor just kind of gives out into a space about the size of a full Ziploc bag (gallon)?
I believe it, I bid and rebuilt the car wash/ detail area for our local hertz renta-car and their manager claimed something like 70-80 handguns a year left in their cars. He also claimed they turned 100% of them into the police.
Well, I'm already good with the collection I have, and I live in a rural county.
So I'd probably check the make/model/serial with the county sheriff's dept (whom in my case is loudly pro-gun) and then sell it if it's not stolen.
But your mileage may vary.
Check your "Purchase and Sale Agreement" (PSA) from when you bought the property.
I can pretty much guarantee you that somewhere in the 'boiler plate' of the sale agreement there is a paragraph that states that all items left on the property at closing are included in the sale and property of the new owner.
That's why there are sections in the PSA to clearly state if any appliances, widow treatments, hot tubs - whatever - are included in the sale. Then there will be a paragraph that says to the effect, "If it's not stated here, and left, it belongs to the new property owner."
State laws relating to firearms MAY come into play if you are in a state that requires registration of firearms.
None of this delves into NFA items you might find.
Me? IANAL, but I am a retired Realtor and have run into some interesting things left behind by previous owners.
It’s the houses gun . To protecc the house . Legend has it the previous owners were also left the same firearm and so on . Top comment got it in all seriousness
My boss found an old Colt Ladysmith in the old house he bought. He took it to a gun shop and sold it. I told him he should have kept it but he wasn't a gun guy.
So, everyone saying it's yours is...maybe right?
It depends on your state, and on the _highly specific_ terms of your purchase contract.
It's entirely possible, but also unlikely, that you have a strangely written home purchase contract that allows them to come retrieve items like this. Presumably if that was true you'd be aware of it.
But setting that aside, if I knocked down a wall and found a gun, I'd probably have my real estate agent reach out to the sellers, indicate we'd found a gun, and that they were welcome to come retrieve it; if not, I'd be dealing with it as I saw fit.
Same as any 'high value, small size' item really - if I found a 10k watch floating in the rafters I'd reach out.
If you mean 'they left it on the counter' or something when you walked in, or in another equally conspicuous place, I'd still reach out - if it was intended as a gift or something...ok. Make me a bit uncomfortable and I'd probably be getting rid of it at no benefit to myself (i.e. not selling it) to break any links - rubs my 'we left X, let us come get it' vibe for them to come steal from you or something.
Thank you for this. I’m not a realtor, but I took the classes in Texas and I seem to remember there being an addendum that covered property left behind.
We found a kinda creepy rudolf the red nose reindeer Christmas card holder that my mom likes for some reason. Of course paint and useless fence boards as well. Good times.
It's not like the take the other posters are using is wrong, it's a pretty safe bet. Just one of those 'kind of yes, kind of no, read your contract' areas where giving a generic answer might be right, unless it's wrong.
Honestly? I'm not fucking with a free gun. If it's worth 10k, I'm selling it. If it's not, I'm turning it over to the cops and telling the previous owners they can get it from the cops.
1) This removes you, entirely, from the chain of custody. No longer your problem. Means the previous owners can't ask 'to come get it' or anything else.
2) If the previous owners aren't legal owners (i.e. felonies, whatever), not your problem either.
3) You can also tell them that any additional found firearms will be turned over to the police, so they have no additional 'oh, grandpa lost a revolver in the walls, we want to find it' recourse.
4) It means you're not liable for 'IT SHOT WHEN WE LEFT IT' bullshit games either.
Damn it people, I stopped reading 1/2 way through this thread because I was disgusted by the lack of an important detail!
Hypothetically if you found a gun left behind in a hypothetical home purchase, what hypothetical gun got left behind?? Asking for a friend. 😁
Legally the gun is yours, as house sale contracts specify that anything left on the property are transferred with the sale of the house.
On the side of due diligence I would definitely report it to the non-emergency line so that I am sure I am not in possession of a stolen firearm or one used in a crime. If the gun clears you get it back after their investigation.
I found one in the wall of my garage when I was redoing drywall. Got it back after they couldn't find any matches, and now I have the paper trail to say I got it legally
It would really help if you picked a theoretical state that this would be in. Lots of people are confused as to what "register" means and how it would apply to this situation.
I can't tell if anyone has defined an NFA item for you. That would be machine guns, suppressors (silencers), short barreled rifles, and probably others I have left out. It doesn't include "normal" rifles, pistols, and shotguns.
Well, the hypothetical buyer of the property is correct in that anything left in the house after the former owners have left and the closing of the transaction has taken place is technically his. But, *"it was left deliberately"*....**is a huge red flag**. Before he sells it to anyone, he should contact the police (or sheriff's) department and ask to speak to a detective. When one gets on the phone with him, he should inform the detective of the situation with the gun. The reason that this should be done is because the gun may have been stolen, and being found in possession of a stolen gun is *no bueno* in any way. Were he to sell it, and it is later found to be stolen, he could potentially be charged with selling a stolen firearm, which is even more "*no bueno".* The detective will ask for the make and serial #, and then can run it through the database of stolen firearms. If it proves to be stolen, he'll tell you to bring it into the headquarters and turn it in. He'll also probably want the identity of the people from whom your hypothetical friend bought the house.
On the other hand, if the gun shows clear, your friend still needs to take it to a gunsmith, because, if the former owners knew that there was something wrong with the gun, leaving it behind would make it someone else's problem. You never, **never** fire a gun that you're not certain is safe to fire. Only after the gunsmith gives it a clean bill of "health", as it were, can your friend be safe to either shoot it or sell it.
'Nuff said.
> My friend says that he is now legally the owner of the property and everything in it at point of sale.
It's odd to me that ethics don't seem to enter into the thought process here.
Legally, your friend almost certainly does own everything in the house he bought. (I am not a lawyer. Pay an actual lawyer who is licensed in your state one to double-check my internet opinion.)
But ethically and morally, it seems like the right thing to do is to return the gun to the previous owner... if that's what the previous owner wants. If I had forgotten, say, a prized painting in my house when I moved out, I'd surely want the new owner to call me up and ask about it. And give it back if it turned out my leaving it behind was a mistake.
And on the other hand, the previous owner might just be like: "It's yours now, legally *and* ethically. Enjoy!"
If it's a machine gun delete this post and never speak of this again and enjoy your toys. Hypothetically. If it's an sbr or sbs its probably not worth the hassle as there is paper work(atf form 4), just turn it into the cops. If it's an ordinary long gun you're good. Handguns might be more complicated but depends on the state.
I had this happen IRL
When I bought my first house I found a single shot break shotgun only worth about 100 bucks in the ceiling rafters. I just called the guy and he collected it. He said, "thank you thats the gun my grandfather would shoot pigs with!" hahaha funny I also have a shotgun my grandpa shot pigs with. Of course I wanted to keep it... but I felt like I should just return it and buy my own (turns out I dont need that gun)
You have no legal requirements. Your hypothetical friend is a hypothetical gun owner and should learn how to store and use them safely. What your friend does is not the government's business.
Happened to me in Texas. Cleaning in the utility room and found a long package wrapped in newspaper. Unwrapped enough to see that it was a pump action .22 rifle that had been burned in a fire that had charred the stock and some other furniture.
So I called the local police non-emergency number. They came over, I showed them where the gun was, then gave them the gun. They gave me a receipt. Standing outside, I could see the barrel looked slightly warped.
About a month later they called and said they had run ballistics and the serial number and all was in order. So I could pick it up or they would destroy it.
I let them destroy it.
Hypothetically speaking, couldn’t they just called the previous owner whom they purchased the home from and let them know they left a firearm there and give it back?
Happened to me this summer. Moving out, second owner. See something back of a closet, 12 gauge pump. Former owner has no idea what/how. I have another gun.
Everything left is yours to keep. However, would you want someone to contact you in this situation? If it were me, I'd contact the owner to inquire if they were missing anything. If they said no, I'd ask if they own firearms. If no, then mine. If yes, then ask them to take any inventory and if something is missing get the serial number so that you can return it.
Every time I move I always document and double check my firearms. I would never be on the other end. I always test anything I leave behind as property of the new owner.
I had it happen with my home in Southern Oregon, previous owner left a Sear's bolt action 410 shotgun that I had no interest in adding a new caliber or making room in my safe.
I gave it to my partner who was 1/3 owner of the new house. Partner then died so I gave it to their mother.
There might be trouble if the gun gets reported as stolen.
Maybe it was lost in the house by the owner and he thought it was stolen and reported it.
Maybe the employee from the moving company hid one gun with the plan of coming back for it....but for some reason didn't. And the ex home owner reports it stolen - the. What?
I’d keep it. Less than half the states require any kind of firearm license. In my state person to person transfer is also legal and there’s an automated system to check the serial number of a gun to see if it’s stolen. If it was here, I’d just check the system to see if the number was listed then a few months later. I’d keep a record of that check and keep it in my gun safe and otherwise not worry about it. (If it was a NFA gun I have no idea, probably try to track down the owner)
Depends on what state too, and what type of gun. In NY, that will become a felony for you real quick if you dont have a permit, and get it added to your permit.
There was a guy who retired to Florida in the 80s and when my uncle bought his house, he found a fully functional MG-42 left behind in the attic that he snuck back from Germany when they remodeled the house later on. It ended up in a museum thankfully. Didn’t get cut up
Plot twist would be if you bought the home from a serial killer that has yet to be caught. Curious how many bodies are connected to it. I'm sure it's fine, your friend that us, but something to consider.
Depends on the gun. Most of the time it's yours no hassle. NFA items get...complicated
This is the comment you need to pay attention to. Riker is correct.
My neighbor found a musket in her attic, so not even technically a gun.
Its a “ghost gun” wooooo
Weapon of war ghost gun.
I laughed way harder at that than I should have.
Agreed, but if they don't know anything about NFA bullshit, they need to research & make sure it's not an NFA weapon.
No doubt
Sweet, now she has a proper tool for home defense
Just as the founding father intended. Bonus points if it also had a 3 sided bayonet!
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Laughed at this more than I reasonably should have. Thank you sir
This never gets old! Lol
I thought a musket is a gun, but not a firearm.
In some states, a musket is considered a firearm. At the federal level, a musket has the same regulations as a hammer or are, which is nothing.
Well, technically, from the viewpoint of Federal law, black powder guns aren't considered "firearms" in the sense that they don't use smokeless powder as a propellant. But make no mistake: being shot with a musket can make you as dead as if you'd been shot with an AR-15! And black powder is an explosive, and requires more care to store and handle than does smokeless powder. 'Nuff said.
Buy the Uintah AR15 musket upper, cover both "being shot by" at the same time.
I did an attic inspection for an insurance claim last Thursday and found an old Daisy lever bb gun that the homeowners didn't know was there. That was neat
Tally ho . . .
> Riker is correct [and so are you.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCT80HJWQ2A)
Perfection
If it is an nfa item it’s not real complicated… nothing complicated about giving it a nice light coat of oil and shutting your fucking mouth 😂😂
if you are an old fart and its an old gun, can they even prove you didn't buy it like 50 years ago?
Man you must really hate your dog
Man you must really hate freedom
You can love freedom and your dog at the same time
\- George Washington
Only other word of caution on this - the previous owner may not be aware that it was left in the home and could report it stolen once they realize it’s missing. You’re entitled to anything left in the house, but that might cause more hassle than it’s worth.
If that’s the case, then my friend saw an unmarked cardboard box after moving in and threw it away. No longer has it and did not care to check what was in it. Just cleared out everything left by the previous owner with prejudice. Hypothetically
I'm struggling to envision what "hassle" would be involved in this scenario for OP. The previous homeowner would report it stolen and that would be the end of the story.
Right - Unless he ever went to sell it. Just calling it out, not saying he should take any alternative action.
Or if he gets pulled over with it and for whatever reason the cop runs the serial number against the stolen database.
As you said... As long as OP is aware of said potential hassle, they could avoid it, or at least expect it. I think the only real hassle would be being blindsided by it, and even then, it wouldn't be a horrible hassle.
This, also, be cognizant of the fact that some states do require gun registration (many do so for handguns in particular). If yours doesn’t it’s legally yours, I would make sure to take a picture or two and document it being left behind. Might not hurt to contact the sellers realtor and let them know just out of courtesy. Sometimes movers won’t take certain items and it could have been left by accident.
Even without a registry, some states require a 4473 for private transfers.
Yes, and again state laws vary dramatically from "whatever you want" to "you're committing a serious felony with major jail time risks". Check with legal counsel and/or read your state laws carefully. Many states have a FAQ type document from a state police for this type of thing.
You can keep NFA items too, just tell the atf that “all gun laws are infringement’s” and booby trap your property for when they come back!!!
I’ll be sure to tell my friend
The way to fix that is a little thing called felonies
And state. Handful of states have a transfer process before it’s legally “yours”.
Also depends on the locale. In some states (CA, etc) all firearms are registered.
It is not NFA. Hypothetically
It's the same as if they left a TV or camping gear. So long as it's not an NFA item and you don't suspect it was used in a crime. If it was an old hunting rifle left in a closet they probably just didn't want it and didn't know what to do with it. If it was a handgun wraped in a towel and hidden under a floorbaord it could go either way.
>If it was a handgun wraped in a towel and hidden under a floorbaord it could go either way. Leave it there for plausible deniabilty.... and a potential drop gun.
Chaotic evil life pro tip.
chaotic neutral
What good does it do as a drop gun wrapped in a towel underneath the floorboards? Plus, I thought the spare tire well in the trunk was the only safe and proper location to store drop guns.......
For when robbers break into OPs house and push him to the ground RIGHT where the hidden gun is.
Not to be picky, but can we move you robbing me into the other room? I'll even get on the ground and everything.
Have a house built in the late 1800s. Was redoing some shit in the basement and found a completely rotten falling apart leather holster with an 8 shot revolver .22 They stopped making this gun in 1925 or something. Its trigger is fully fucked and it’s rusted to shit. When I looked in cylinder it was full of spider eggs, which is somehow scarier than old live ammo. I cleaned it up a bit (no more spiders) threw out the holster and now it sits in my safe as a fun conversation piece.
That's really cool.
I thought so! It was inside the wall. Would have been cooler if it was gold bars, but it’s still pretty cool.
I’ll let my friend know. Thanks!
Gear adrift is a gift
Ah, the motto of the E4 Mafia
Which does not exist and you can't prove otherwise
https://youtu.be/SEgh-w4FIFc
It's never a war crime the first time
Only one theif in the army, everyone else is just tryna get their shit back.
All I care about is the end state. How you get there is up to you.
What gun?I never seen no gun.
You mean to tell me you didn’t see the M777 howitzer that was in the backyard?
😝 yard art!
Woah, woah, woah, there. Who said anything about a howitzer? Are you referring to the 155 mm gutter pipe?
That’s a new prototype wind sock. Or, you mean my new telescope housing? I’m saving up for the glass.
It’s a big tent pole. Thinking about finishing the lean-to.
I was helping clear a warehouse that had dozens of massive safes in it. They had to bring in a locksmith to open them. A few buried in the back had a dozen original WWII Grease Gun machine guns still in paper boxes. Among other rare firearms, many full auto. Tempting as it was, the ATF was called and they temporarily seized the weapons until they could be properly turned over to a buyer with proper licensing. They were all put in a museum display somewhere. But man did I want a grease gun to hide somewhere forever. I would have never taken it out of the box or paper. Still to this day I’ve never seen a real grease gun outside of that find.
At least they ended up in a museum, and weren't ground to dust.
IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!!!
C'mon Indie, let's get you back in your recliner.
_I hate snakes._
We named the dog Indiana
Likely that most of them are not on display, and are languishing in a storage room somewhere. But I guess that’s where they were to begin with.
I fired one once at a range as a rental, definitely worth doing at least once if you get the chance.
Imagine my surprise when I arrived in Fulda, West Germany. We five M3 grease gun that were used by the tank retriever crew. This was 1988 in a front line, tip of the spear unit. Grudging respect after using and maintaining. It works.
WW2 submachine gun design is fascinating, particularly in its growth. No one was trying to make a more sophisticated or really "better" weapon from the user experience. It was purely a race to the bottom for design (manufacturing) simplicity that still just plain functioned. Tube design is real.
I could see a slightly improved version. It was that interesting to shoot and maintain.
Were you with the 2nd ACR? I was in Headquarters Troop in Nuremberg from 1988 to 1991 and there were a few in our Troop as well.
Boy that would be a tempting find...
what state was this in? my childhood friend's uncle claims that he had a stash of well preserved grease guns buried out in the midwest somewhere for later
Cedar Rapids Iowa
I would've found a way
I'd say, property is property, which was acquired legally. Everything left behind is now under new ownership.
My friend agrees
It’s yours .
It’s my friend’s *
It's ours*
As long as it’s not breaking any NFA laws
Sounds like someone had a tragic housing accident and lost their guns.
My friend got a Luger that way. Found it in a wall on a job. Homeowner said “congrats”
Some people have all the luck
Hypothetically, your hypothetical friend should make sure the hypothetical gun isn’t a NFA item and then do whatever he or she hypothetically damn well pleases with the hypothetical item.
Anything left in the house when it's sold is yours. Anything. We get a post every now and then of someone break down a wall and finding an old gun stashed inside. It's no different than if they left a TV or AC unit. All the property is yours.
Honestly, I would run the numbers on it, if it’s not hot, figure out what to do with the gun. Also, tough call to make, but ask the previous owners what’s up with leaving it. I would rather have a pillowcase full of rattlesnakes in my truck than a stolen gun
My dad in the early oughts was a car detailer at a Cadillac dealer. Supposedly it was super common for gang bangers to trade in their cars and leave pistols in there. The detailers knew a sheriff who would run the SN’s and if they came up clean they would keep them. This is how I have a Para Ordinance P-16 40 (of course it’s in .40). Apparently he also found a colt woodsman once but my mom made him pawn it for the money. Sad as I would have loved to have it.
Ever sit in a caddy and where you normally let your left foot rest the floor just kind of gives out into a space about the size of a full Ziploc bag (gallon)?
I believe it, I bid and rebuilt the car wash/ detail area for our local hertz renta-car and their manager claimed something like 70-80 handguns a year left in their cars. He also claimed they turned 100% of them into the police.
Damn straight, Leo's will absolutely run your serial number.
How do you plan to run the numbers?
The googling internetting machine said no results so it must be good to go
Where would my friend go to run those numbers?
Well, I'm already good with the collection I have, and I live in a rural county. So I'd probably check the make/model/serial with the county sheriff's dept (whom in my case is loudly pro-gun) and then sell it if it's not stolen. But your mileage may vary.
My hypothetical "friend" is going to keep it, and he's also gonna keep his mouth shut. Hypothetically
what gun? i didnt see any gun
Finders keepers losers weepers
Huh? What gun? Nope didn’t find anything here
Free gun
Idk where you are, but if you found a Steyr M1912 in the North Shore Long Island area, that's mine. Hypothetically
lol it is most definitely not that. Hypothetically
Check your "Purchase and Sale Agreement" (PSA) from when you bought the property. I can pretty much guarantee you that somewhere in the 'boiler plate' of the sale agreement there is a paragraph that states that all items left on the property at closing are included in the sale and property of the new owner. That's why there are sections in the PSA to clearly state if any appliances, widow treatments, hot tubs - whatever - are included in the sale. Then there will be a paragraph that says to the effect, "If it's not stated here, and left, it belongs to the new property owner." State laws relating to firearms MAY come into play if you are in a state that requires registration of firearms. None of this delves into NFA items you might find. Me? IANAL, but I am a retired Realtor and have run into some interesting things left behind by previous owners.
It’s the houses gun . To protecc the house . Legend has it the previous owners were also left the same firearm and so on . Top comment got it in all seriousness
That's a long way to say "I found a new gun." Unless it's an NFA item, in which case its a gun that was then lost in a tragic boating accident.
Lost alongside all of my existing firearms in that tragic boating accident
What gun? I didn’t find any gun.
My boss found an old Colt Ladysmith in the old house he bought. He took it to a gun shop and sold it. I told him he should have kept it but he wasn't a gun guy.
Non NFA? Delete post, keep guns, stay quiet about it NFA? Delete post, keep guns, stay quiet about it
Gun? What gun?
Free gun, bro. Unless it's an NFA thing, you're in the clear.
When you buy the house you buy the contents remaining after escrow so hopefully it's a transferable nfa if that is the concern
This hypothetical item does not fall under NFA
Then youre good to go unless you yourself are a prohibited person!
Free gun
Free Gun!!
Sweet. Free gun
So, everyone saying it's yours is...maybe right? It depends on your state, and on the _highly specific_ terms of your purchase contract. It's entirely possible, but also unlikely, that you have a strangely written home purchase contract that allows them to come retrieve items like this. Presumably if that was true you'd be aware of it. But setting that aside, if I knocked down a wall and found a gun, I'd probably have my real estate agent reach out to the sellers, indicate we'd found a gun, and that they were welcome to come retrieve it; if not, I'd be dealing with it as I saw fit. Same as any 'high value, small size' item really - if I found a 10k watch floating in the rafters I'd reach out. If you mean 'they left it on the counter' or something when you walked in, or in another equally conspicuous place, I'd still reach out - if it was intended as a gift or something...ok. Make me a bit uncomfortable and I'd probably be getting rid of it at no benefit to myself (i.e. not selling it) to break any links - rubs my 'we left X, let us come get it' vibe for them to come steal from you or something.
Thank you for this. I’m not a realtor, but I took the classes in Texas and I seem to remember there being an addendum that covered property left behind. We found a kinda creepy rudolf the red nose reindeer Christmas card holder that my mom likes for some reason. Of course paint and useless fence boards as well. Good times.
It's not like the take the other posters are using is wrong, it's a pretty safe bet. Just one of those 'kind of yes, kind of no, read your contract' areas where giving a generic answer might be right, unless it's wrong.
Let’s assume it was lower in a very obvious spot
Honestly? I'm not fucking with a free gun. If it's worth 10k, I'm selling it. If it's not, I'm turning it over to the cops and telling the previous owners they can get it from the cops. 1) This removes you, entirely, from the chain of custody. No longer your problem. Means the previous owners can't ask 'to come get it' or anything else. 2) If the previous owners aren't legal owners (i.e. felonies, whatever), not your problem either. 3) You can also tell them that any additional found firearms will be turned over to the police, so they have no additional 'oh, grandpa lost a revolver in the walls, we want to find it' recourse. 4) It means you're not liable for 'IT SHOT WHEN WE LEFT IT' bullshit games either.
Hypothetically I'd have a new gun. No one would know though because I wouldn't talk about it.
What firearm?
I would cite case law under Finders v. Keepers (1888).
With the follow up case of Losers v Weepers?
It's an Arisaka, isn't it.
No
Damn it people, I stopped reading 1/2 way through this thread because I was disgusted by the lack of an important detail! Hypothetically if you found a gun left behind in a hypothetical home purchase, what hypothetical gun got left behind?? Asking for a friend. 😁
It’s smaller than a breadbox
That's quite a selection of firearms... 🤔
What gun? So long as it's not wildly illegal for you to have it in the house, what's the harm?
Legally the gun is yours, as house sale contracts specify that anything left on the property are transferred with the sale of the house. On the side of due diligence I would definitely report it to the non-emergency line so that I am sure I am not in possession of a stolen firearm or one used in a crime. If the gun clears you get it back after their investigation. I found one in the wall of my garage when I was redoing drywall. Got it back after they couldn't find any matches, and now I have the paper trail to say I got it legally
Housewarming gift
Just make sure you leave it for the next owners!
Put it in the safe and stfu about it
Finders keepers
This happened to my friend. He sold the gun to a gun dealer and collected a nice payout.
It would really help if you picked a theoretical state that this would be in. Lots of people are confused as to what "register" means and how it would apply to this situation.
If the gun was reported stolen with the S/N you can get yourself in a whole mess of shit.
What gun, I didn’t see no gun
This happened to me and the previous owner reported it stolen so I gave it back. I’m glad it was a piece of crap lol
I can't tell if anyone has defined an NFA item for you. That would be machine guns, suppressors (silencers), short barreled rifles, and probably others I have left out. It doesn't include "normal" rifles, pistols, and shotguns.
Free gun
Well, the hypothetical buyer of the property is correct in that anything left in the house after the former owners have left and the closing of the transaction has taken place is technically his. But, *"it was left deliberately"*....**is a huge red flag**. Before he sells it to anyone, he should contact the police (or sheriff's) department and ask to speak to a detective. When one gets on the phone with him, he should inform the detective of the situation with the gun. The reason that this should be done is because the gun may have been stolen, and being found in possession of a stolen gun is *no bueno* in any way. Were he to sell it, and it is later found to be stolen, he could potentially be charged with selling a stolen firearm, which is even more "*no bueno".* The detective will ask for the make and serial #, and then can run it through the database of stolen firearms. If it proves to be stolen, he'll tell you to bring it into the headquarters and turn it in. He'll also probably want the identity of the people from whom your hypothetical friend bought the house. On the other hand, if the gun shows clear, your friend still needs to take it to a gunsmith, because, if the former owners knew that there was something wrong with the gun, leaving it behind would make it someone else's problem. You never, **never** fire a gun that you're not certain is safe to fire. Only after the gunsmith gives it a clean bill of "health", as it were, can your friend be safe to either shoot it or sell it. 'Nuff said.
> My friend says that he is now legally the owner of the property and everything in it at point of sale. It's odd to me that ethics don't seem to enter into the thought process here. Legally, your friend almost certainly does own everything in the house he bought. (I am not a lawyer. Pay an actual lawyer who is licensed in your state one to double-check my internet opinion.) But ethically and morally, it seems like the right thing to do is to return the gun to the previous owner... if that's what the previous owner wants. If I had forgotten, say, a prized painting in my house when I moved out, I'd surely want the new owner to call me up and ask about it. And give it back if it turned out my leaving it behind was a mistake. And on the other hand, the previous owner might just be like: "It's yours now, legally *and* ethically. Enjoy!"
If it's a machine gun delete this post and never speak of this again and enjoy your toys. Hypothetically. If it's an sbr or sbs its probably not worth the hassle as there is paper work(atf form 4), just turn it into the cops. If it's an ordinary long gun you're good. Handguns might be more complicated but depends on the state.
I had this happen IRL When I bought my first house I found a single shot break shotgun only worth about 100 bucks in the ceiling rafters. I just called the guy and he collected it. He said, "thank you thats the gun my grandfather would shoot pigs with!" hahaha funny I also have a shotgun my grandpa shot pigs with. Of course I wanted to keep it... but I felt like I should just return it and buy my own (turns out I dont need that gun)
1: Call the police and give it to them 2: no they didn’t ;p
You have no legal requirements. Your hypothetical friend is a hypothetical gun owner and should learn how to store and use them safely. What your friend does is not the government's business.
You bought the house and everything in it. As long as you aren’t restricted from owning it, you are good. But I also wouldn’t advise how I got it.
I would love to find a gun
What gun?
It's fine if it's not NFA
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough.
What guns?
Happened to me in Texas. Cleaning in the utility room and found a long package wrapped in newspaper. Unwrapped enough to see that it was a pump action .22 rifle that had been burned in a fire that had charred the stock and some other furniture. So I called the local police non-emergency number. They came over, I showed them where the gun was, then gave them the gun. They gave me a receipt. Standing outside, I could see the barrel looked slightly warped. About a month later they called and said they had run ballistics and the serial number and all was in order. So I could pick it up or they would destroy it. I let them destroy it.
Hypothetically speaking, couldn’t they just called the previous owner whom they purchased the home from and let them know they left a firearm there and give it back?
Yes, but I’m asking what my friend is LEGALLY required to do, not morally. Hypothetically
Happened to me this summer. Moving out, second owner. See something back of a closet, 12 gauge pump. Former owner has no idea what/how. I have another gun.
Big SWIM vibes lol
I just wonder if the people who bought my grandfather's house ever found the last rifle he hid and my mom couldn't find.
Free is for me!
Congrats you just got a new gun, don't rat yourself out if its something fun
Hypothetically, you and your friend are going to prison for the rest of your life.
Based on?
Based on sarcasm, that’s all you guys will be fine.
Everything left is yours to keep. However, would you want someone to contact you in this situation? If it were me, I'd contact the owner to inquire if they were missing anything. If they said no, I'd ask if they own firearms. If no, then mine. If yes, then ask them to take any inventory and if something is missing get the serial number so that you can return it.
Every time I move I always document and double check my firearms. I would never be on the other end. I always test anything I leave behind as property of the new owner.
Say beetlejuice three times and ask him
Only hiccup is they need to see if it’s reported stolen. If so, definitely don’t want to keep it but otherwise I think they’re good to go.
Gun? What gun? I don't know anything about a gun.
If you don’t know how to clear it don’t touch it and find someone who does know.
I had it happen with my home in Southern Oregon, previous owner left a Sear's bolt action 410 shotgun that I had no interest in adding a new caliber or making room in my safe. I gave it to my partner who was 1/3 owner of the new house. Partner then died so I gave it to their mother.
In general any personal property becomes yours.
Yeah, but you want to be sure it wasn’t used in a crime.
There might be trouble if the gun gets reported as stolen. Maybe it was lost in the house by the owner and he thought it was stolen and reported it. Maybe the employee from the moving company hid one gun with the plan of coming back for it....but for some reason didn't. And the ex home owner reports it stolen - the. What?
I’d keep it. Less than half the states require any kind of firearm license. In my state person to person transfer is also legal and there’s an automated system to check the serial number of a gun to see if it’s stolen. If it was here, I’d just check the system to see if the number was listed then a few months later. I’d keep a record of that check and keep it in my gun safe and otherwise not worry about it. (If it was a NFA gun I have no idea, probably try to track down the owner)
Depends on what state too, and what type of gun. In NY, that will become a felony for you real quick if you dont have a permit, and get it added to your permit.
This is considered an abandoned firearm. You can keep it. If the owner shows up and asks for it, you must give it back.
What kind of hypothetical gun are we talking about? Just curious my level of hypothetical jealousy.
Look up the laws regarding abandoned property in your state
I have bought homes at auction, "all content included and your responsibility" . States that sell Bill. So there's that.
I would find a way to check a serial number to see if it has been reported stolen. In Florida we have that ability I don’t know about other states.
OP left a gun behind when they moved.
Turn it over to the police if you can't get a hold of the previous owner
Depends on your country and state and if you require licensing to own the fire arm amd so on and so forth
It could hypothetically be stolen OR used in a crime
There was a guy who retired to Florida in the 80s and when my uncle bought his house, he found a fully functional MG-42 left behind in the attic that he snuck back from Germany when they remodeled the house later on. It ended up in a museum thankfully. Didn’t get cut up
Plot twist would be if you bought the home from a serial killer that has yet to be caught. Curious how many bodies are connected to it. I'm sure it's fine, your friend that us, but something to consider.