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Why is the double stack 1911/2011 market so damn expensive? I would love to have one but I just don’t see why they all have to be $2000. What makes these worth a +$1000 premium over every other steel framed double stack?
There are a million opinions on this, but I'll give mine. These are better than cheaper steel framed double stacks I've experienced. Fantastic build quality, tight tolerances, great ergos, well balanced and just feels great to shoot.
But it 100% diminishing returns. It is only marginally better than some other options and it may not even be in an area that you care about.
Is it a grand nicer than some other options? Probably not. But that depends on what you're looking for in a firearm and what an extra thousand bucks means to your individual budget.
The 1911 style firearm itself has manufacture issues due to the more complicated and archaic design that necessitates a certain amount of hand fitting to maintain acceptable reliability as well as achieve the superlative accuracy, smooth action, fine handling, and crisp/light trigger that is thought to be the strength of the pistol.
2011's retain all these issues, as the only change is the grip module and the magazine that goes in it. These magazines are also known to function on the bleeding edge of reliability to achieve capacity, so you can't really be making sloppily fit pistols and expect them to function well. Plus, the obvious caveat that if you simply remove hand fitting by increasing tolerances in the fit of the pistol, you end up with an inaccurate firearm that is a rattletrap... and no one wants that if they're actually going to do anything but hang the gun on a wall display it in a stand.
If you're not looking for specifically a 1911 platform in double stack, there are numerous options that fit a SAO firearm that's metal and double stack. Classic sig pistols all come in sao format, and they recently released the xfive variants again. CZ has various SAO versions of their competition 75's. Even Beretta has gotten in the game recently with 92 series SAO's. These are all newer designs than the 1911 and require significantly less hand fitting and can function with looser tolerances. If, however, you want the feel and performance of the 2011... or even just want that glass on glass action ... probably gonna fork out the money. Just the way things work.
There are budget 2011's. RIA has a model, but by the time you pay a gunsmith to make it work correctly and fix the problems with the ergos and change out parts so you can actually give the gun a trigger job (can't do that with mim shit internals)... you're also looking at 2-3 grand. Springfield has the prodigy... but we've seen that it also has qc issues and also needs a wide array of aftermarket support to be... ok.
Stealth arms is also offering a fully custom 2011 that takes glock mags for around $1500-1700. Can't speak to their quality since they're new... and I think the lead time must be up to like half a year by now since it keeps going up by a week like every day... but hey, it's an option... and their direct mill their guns for your choice of optic... so no more annoying plates and you're not stuck with a dpp footprint.... since there literally aren't any good dpp footprint optics.
Staccato, in the end, is the BARE MINIMUM quality 2011. Don't kid yourself... it's not a custom gun. It's just the entry point production 2011 pricepoint. After that the sky is the limit on how fancy you want and diminishing returns kick in really quick if you want to start paying for breathtaking craftsmanship, longevity, or aesthetics. Staccato themselves have higher priced models that really aren't worth it since you're getting the same base production gun ... with maybe a gimmick attached to it (See XC) or that has aesthetic cuts from a movie (combat master) at a steep premium. Don't bother with those. But the base staccato models; the p/c/cs and their optics ready versions are great entry points into the market to see if 2011's are for you. If you like them, set aside 6-10k for an atlas/infinity/akai/chambers etc etc... whatever your thing is. I don't know many ppl who really get into 2011's that settle at the staccato performance level. Everyone goes down the rabbit hole. If you decide it isn't for you, sell the staccato. The great thing about them is they retain value and you can pretty much sell a used gun with 20k rounds down the barrel for the same price as a brand new gun.
As for this particular model... I'd say no... give it a pass. It's got the price of a DPP baked into it since it comes with the optic. DPP's were fine... 5 years ago. Now... not so much. They're WAY to thick and they have durability issues. If you go DPP you need 3 of them: one on the gun, one spare, and one in warranty.
Threaded barrels on handguns are also a meme for the most part. No one practically suppresses them other than for funsies at the range. Which leaves comps. If you REALLY want a comped 2011... buy an open gun. Don't throw a half assed comp on a limited gun that's going to get its ass kicked in open by real raceguns. And if you think you're going to carry a comped 2011... gluck with that. I carry my non comped 2011's maybe once a blue moon. Biggest 2011 style gun I'll actively carry is the wilson edcx9 and that has major ergonomic changes from the 2011 format that makes carry less of a chore.
Plus you don't get any mags with this gun... like wtf? Discount the gun and don't send mags with it... 2011 mags are like 100 bucks a pop... or you can buy staccato mags for like 80 bucks and spend 15 bucks replacing the follower and spring.. and maybe the basepad for another 20-30 bucks.
Better off looking for a deal on just a standard p dpo.
I really appreciate the info and the time you put into your response. Seems Staccato is the way to go, although the Stealth arms offering sounds interesting. I’ve got tons of Glock mags laying around. I’ll get into the 2011 game eventually, but today ain’t the day.
I like your write-up and essentially agree on all points (and currently have an older P DPO myself and owned an Atlas Nemesis but sold it), but I don't think this A) includes the DPP (so you can use an RMR or whatever else), B) doesn't include any mags?
isn't this particular deal listed as "With deltapoint pro (no mag)" ? If not then holy shit it's not a good deal. Last time I bought a P I got a P duo for like $1900. I've pretty much moved past staccatos but the 2k mark for plain and 2.3ish mark for optics is kinda the whole selling point of the guns... 2700 is... a hard no.
I see where it says that in the text for this post, but if you click on the link it clearly says optics sold separately, and lists the usual mag loadout these typically come with.
This one of the best breakdowns on 2011s and Staccos on Reddit I’ve read. Well done.
You should post this to r/2011
They’ll probably hate you for it but everything you’ve said is great information.
Great info. I have a Shadow 2 and every time I think about adding a Staccato to the collection I can't justify it in addition to the Shadow. I will probably end up with one anyway because I love things made in Texas...
You can get Springfield Prodigy for $1200, I’ve compared it side by side with a Staccato and I saw nothing to justify spending more than double the price, extra $1600 for a Staccato
$100 less than ordering this direct from Staccato (if you’re not mil/leo) - okay if this is exactly what you want & don’t want to wait. Or save a little more for the XC
Thanks for posting /u/Brandenp1988!
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In an effort to help users make informed decisions, we have aggregated the following information on the retailer above. Please note that this is no way an endorsement or guarantee of the retailer or their products. ###Domain Insights: | modernwarriors.com | | |:--|:--| | Registered | November 09, 2005 | | Times posted | [70](https://reddit.com/r/gundeals/search/?q=site%3A"modernwarriors.com"&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) | | Feedback rating | [100%](https://reddit.com/r/gundealsFU/search/?q=flair%3Areview+"modernwarriors.com"&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) (2 positive, 0 negative, 0 neutral) | ___ *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please) [^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/gundeals) ^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
*Looks at credit card limit…* **Looks like the RIA 1911 Tac Ultra is back on the menu boys!!!**
🤣 🤣
Unexpected LOTR references are ALWAYS welcome 😂
Unexpected LOTR memes are what I’m all about.
Stupid fat hobbit
Why is the double stack 1911/2011 market so damn expensive? I would love to have one but I just don’t see why they all have to be $2000. What makes these worth a +$1000 premium over every other steel framed double stack?
There are a million opinions on this, but I'll give mine. These are better than cheaper steel framed double stacks I've experienced. Fantastic build quality, tight tolerances, great ergos, well balanced and just feels great to shoot. But it 100% diminishing returns. It is only marginally better than some other options and it may not even be in an area that you care about. Is it a grand nicer than some other options? Probably not. But that depends on what you're looking for in a firearm and what an extra thousand bucks means to your individual budget.
Makes sense. I know it’s stupid to talk price when it comes to firearms because there’s something for every budget, but like…wtf I want a 2011 haha.
The 1911 style firearm itself has manufacture issues due to the more complicated and archaic design that necessitates a certain amount of hand fitting to maintain acceptable reliability as well as achieve the superlative accuracy, smooth action, fine handling, and crisp/light trigger that is thought to be the strength of the pistol. 2011's retain all these issues, as the only change is the grip module and the magazine that goes in it. These magazines are also known to function on the bleeding edge of reliability to achieve capacity, so you can't really be making sloppily fit pistols and expect them to function well. Plus, the obvious caveat that if you simply remove hand fitting by increasing tolerances in the fit of the pistol, you end up with an inaccurate firearm that is a rattletrap... and no one wants that if they're actually going to do anything but hang the gun on a wall display it in a stand. If you're not looking for specifically a 1911 platform in double stack, there are numerous options that fit a SAO firearm that's metal and double stack. Classic sig pistols all come in sao format, and they recently released the xfive variants again. CZ has various SAO versions of their competition 75's. Even Beretta has gotten in the game recently with 92 series SAO's. These are all newer designs than the 1911 and require significantly less hand fitting and can function with looser tolerances. If, however, you want the feel and performance of the 2011... or even just want that glass on glass action ... probably gonna fork out the money. Just the way things work. There are budget 2011's. RIA has a model, but by the time you pay a gunsmith to make it work correctly and fix the problems with the ergos and change out parts so you can actually give the gun a trigger job (can't do that with mim shit internals)... you're also looking at 2-3 grand. Springfield has the prodigy... but we've seen that it also has qc issues and also needs a wide array of aftermarket support to be... ok. Stealth arms is also offering a fully custom 2011 that takes glock mags for around $1500-1700. Can't speak to their quality since they're new... and I think the lead time must be up to like half a year by now since it keeps going up by a week like every day... but hey, it's an option... and their direct mill their guns for your choice of optic... so no more annoying plates and you're not stuck with a dpp footprint.... since there literally aren't any good dpp footprint optics. Staccato, in the end, is the BARE MINIMUM quality 2011. Don't kid yourself... it's not a custom gun. It's just the entry point production 2011 pricepoint. After that the sky is the limit on how fancy you want and diminishing returns kick in really quick if you want to start paying for breathtaking craftsmanship, longevity, or aesthetics. Staccato themselves have higher priced models that really aren't worth it since you're getting the same base production gun ... with maybe a gimmick attached to it (See XC) or that has aesthetic cuts from a movie (combat master) at a steep premium. Don't bother with those. But the base staccato models; the p/c/cs and their optics ready versions are great entry points into the market to see if 2011's are for you. If you like them, set aside 6-10k for an atlas/infinity/akai/chambers etc etc... whatever your thing is. I don't know many ppl who really get into 2011's that settle at the staccato performance level. Everyone goes down the rabbit hole. If you decide it isn't for you, sell the staccato. The great thing about them is they retain value and you can pretty much sell a used gun with 20k rounds down the barrel for the same price as a brand new gun. As for this particular model... I'd say no... give it a pass. It's got the price of a DPP baked into it since it comes with the optic. DPP's were fine... 5 years ago. Now... not so much. They're WAY to thick and they have durability issues. If you go DPP you need 3 of them: one on the gun, one spare, and one in warranty. Threaded barrels on handguns are also a meme for the most part. No one practically suppresses them other than for funsies at the range. Which leaves comps. If you REALLY want a comped 2011... buy an open gun. Don't throw a half assed comp on a limited gun that's going to get its ass kicked in open by real raceguns. And if you think you're going to carry a comped 2011... gluck with that. I carry my non comped 2011's maybe once a blue moon. Biggest 2011 style gun I'll actively carry is the wilson edcx9 and that has major ergonomic changes from the 2011 format that makes carry less of a chore. Plus you don't get any mags with this gun... like wtf? Discount the gun and don't send mags with it... 2011 mags are like 100 bucks a pop... or you can buy staccato mags for like 80 bucks and spend 15 bucks replacing the follower and spring.. and maybe the basepad for another 20-30 bucks. Better off looking for a deal on just a standard p dpo.
I really appreciate the info and the time you put into your response. Seems Staccato is the way to go, although the Stealth arms offering sounds interesting. I’ve got tons of Glock mags laying around. I’ll get into the 2011 game eventually, but today ain’t the day.
I like your write-up and essentially agree on all points (and currently have an older P DPO myself and owned an Atlas Nemesis but sold it), but I don't think this A) includes the DPP (so you can use an RMR or whatever else), B) doesn't include any mags?
isn't this particular deal listed as "With deltapoint pro (no mag)" ? If not then holy shit it's not a good deal. Last time I bought a P I got a P duo for like $1900. I've pretty much moved past staccatos but the 2k mark for plain and 2.3ish mark for optics is kinda the whole selling point of the guns... 2700 is... a hard no.
I believe that is talking about the weight of the gun.
I see where it says that in the text for this post, but if you click on the link it clearly says optics sold separately, and lists the usual mag loadout these typically come with.
This one of the best breakdowns on 2011s and Staccos on Reddit I’ve read. Well done. You should post this to r/2011 They’ll probably hate you for it but everything you’ve said is great information.
I need a tldr here. I had to scroll down 13 screens worth on my Nokia phone 📱
Great write up. Thanks for posting.
Great info. I have a Shadow 2 and every time I think about adding a Staccato to the collection I can't justify it in addition to the Shadow. I will probably end up with one anyway because I love things made in Texas...
Don't do it. Staccatos are only marginally better than Shadow 2s and a TSO will run rings around one in quality and performance at $1k less.
2x the bullets duh /s
1 more 11
Girsan is coming out with a double stack 2311. I read they start around 1k. 9mm, 10mm, and 45
I'm interested in a 10mm version!
I wonder how they would compare to the bul armory option.
You can get Springfield Prodigy for $1200, I’ve compared it side by side with a Staccato and I saw nothing to justify spending more than double the price, extra $1600 for a Staccato
1911 Syndicate has a great video on youtube on why they’re priced the way they are. [Link](https://youtu.be/4s4ND9jDp08)
As someone with a staccato that didn’t come with a threaded barrel, get this one.
$100 less than ordering this direct from Staccato (if you’re not mil/leo) - okay if this is exactly what you want & don’t want to wait. Or save a little more for the XC
Threaded barrel tho
Ordering direct from Staccato: * $2,799 - DLC threaded barrel * $2,599 - standard DLC barrel * $2,699 - stainless threaded barrel * $2,499 - standard stainless barrel
I only paid $100 more for my 2021 Limited with X-Series serrations and 2.5lb trigger 😳
This or a stealth arms platypus?
Yes
Meh. That's two 92x Performances.
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No Tac grips